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Livelikemusic, you have already warned me a few times on my talk page. You have to know that I have no bad intentions with my changes. I'm just very confused because other artists like Beyoncé or Taylor Swift also have occupations in their infoboxes listed, which aren't in their lead. DiaMali has already agreed for including businesswoman and record producer to her occupations. For both are also reliable sources, so I don't really understand what speaks against it. Mirrored7 (talk) 17:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
After this edit, which indicated that there was "consensus on the talk page" for including additional fields beyond what is in the lead, I took a look here to see what consensus there was. I don't see a consensus for this in this thread. I'll note here, as I did in my edit summary: per Template:Infobox person/doc, [the infobox] field is supposed to match what is in the lead. I looked (waaaaay) back through the edit history to see when this was undone previously and see that Livelikemusic removed this for the exact same reason. Again, I don't see any consensus to include this in the infobox. Aoi (青い) (talk) 15:01, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As to whether additional occupations should be added to the lead, this has been discussed multiple times of the years (did a quick search of the archives), most recently in this thread, and there doesn't ever seem to have been consensus for including more than what is currently there. I'm open to adding additional occupations if consensus has changed, but this consensus (or lack of consensus) should be gauged first. Aoi (青い) (talk) 15:15, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
DiaMali agreed with the change, however the topic already has been archieved. There are clear and reliable sources, for this to be added. Other artists, most notably Beyoncé, have their (many) occupations in their info boxes, even if they are not included in the lead. And even then, they also should be included in the lead, because like already stated, there are reliable sources to include them. It seems to me, that there is some kind of bias against Grande, because I opened the discussion months ago, and no one took any notice of it. Mirrored7 (talk) 15:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, at this point this is getting silly. I have sources that support my changes. There's no one who wants to take part in this discussion, even when it's very clear Grande is a record producer and businesswoman. I find it extremely biased that certain artists get a free pass of how much occupations they have on their lead or info box. The only editor who seems to have have an issue with it is Livelikemusic, but he's barely taking part in this discussion either. I'll wait until Monday. If they are no replies until then, I'm going to re-add them with sources on her info box and lead again. Mirrored7 (talk) 16:40, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I stated in a previous discussion—which was ignored, as well as [ignored] edit summaries—{{Infobox person}} states: Occupation(s) as given in the lead. And per the hidden note () this alludes to the fact anything beyond the three main occupations fail this. Just because someone ventures into another occupation does not equate it to being automatically notable or noteworthy. Just because X page does things does not mean Y page should, too. That would be as if stating "Josie robbed a bank, so I should, too!" livelikemusic(TALK!) 17:08, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi! After a couple of failed GA reviews of this article, I will be taking it on and promise to stick with it and give the article a thorough review. Brachy0008, can you confirm that you are around and able to implement changes based on the GA review? I know it's a high-profile article, so other editors may also comment and respond to GA concerns, but just wanted to ensure that we have a primary nominator. Thank you for your patience. Look for my first pass in the next couple of days. —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:09, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Brachy0008, please promptly deal with the copyvio below and confirm that you will be available to address the other comments throughout the GA process. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 20:50, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Adressed one of the copyvios, can’t find one of them Brachy08(Talk) 22:33, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's in the first paragraph of the section "2018–2019: Sweetener and Thank U, Next" —Ganesha811 (talk) 22:36, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
M Magazine is a teen magazine, which should have gossip in it. So, I would presume that it is unreliable. Brachy08(Talk) 00:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What is the source number for M Magazine? Brachy08(Talk) 03:12, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
⌘F on Macs or Ctrl-E or Ctrl-F on Windows, generally, should let you find these within the page/references. —Ganesha811 (talk) 03:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Brachy0008 before we continue on to the rest of the review, I think it's important to address the issues at 2b, 3b, and 5 below. Let me know when you will have time to work on these. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:35, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am slowly working on 2b and 3b. I am not sure if I can handle 5 though but I can try. (I do not have admin powers lol) Brachy08(Talk) 01:50, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok! For #5, you don't need admin powers, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the issue. If there are any regular points of dispute, you could try organizing RfCs to garner formal consensus on them on the talk page. In general, a page this prominent that is a GA will need a regular level of upkeep to maintain that status. Otherwise, it will probably end up at GAR (good article reassessment) within a year. For example, Barack Obama was a featured article for many years, but eventually was delisted. I don't want to intimidate you away from improving the article - it's very possible to get this article to GA and keep it there, and I believe we can do it - I just want to make sure you are aware that this is a particularly tricky article to do that for given its high profile and popularity. —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Got it. Also thanks for the tip. It can really help with reviewing GA articles ngl. Especially Rolling Stone. Brachy08(Talk) 04:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also yeah, Fanlala is not a reliable source. (per this review from CommonSense Media) (Yeah, it is a review but it is the best we can get). Brachy08(Talk) 04:41, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And according to a discussion from 2009, RapUp is a reliable source. Brachy08(Talk) 05:05, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And yes, the discussion is on honeymoon avenue Wikipedia. Brachy08(Talk) 05:06, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for addressing a lot of this! Could you mark, in the table below, any 2b comments that you weren't able to get to? I'm not sure what you meant by "that is in my control" is all. Let me know about 3b as well! —Ganesha811 (talk) 12:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
About 3b, I am adressing the examples that you have addressed. Might read the article again to check for some unrelated stuff. Brachy08(Talk) 22:43, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, according to a discussion in
WP:RSN, Teen.com is not a reliable source. Brachy08(Talk) 01:16, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply
]
Ok, thanks for checking. Yes, please go through the whole article with a fine-toothed comb to deal with dead sources, unreliable sources, and instances of overdetail - let me know when you are ready for me to take another look! I can also do some trimming of detail myself, if you would prefer. —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Brachy0008, it's been a few days and the comments below have not yet all been addressed, and the issues described don't seem to have been checked for in the remainder of the article. Do you think you have time to get to them soon? Otherwise, eventually the review will have to be closed. Let me know - thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:52, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would need some help with 4a. Regarding the 4b issue, there are no alternative images that are available (for now). Brachy08(Talk) 00:47, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I assume you mean 6a? What kind of help? If the image has an unclear copyright, it should probably be removed. —Ganesha811 (talk) 02:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
#2 and #3. I also have ongoing concerns about #5 (stability). The review has been open for 2 weeks and the comments I've made have not been fully addressed in that time. Usually, this would be grounds for a quickfail.
However, I want to give you a chance to address these issues, given our work so far, your obvious good faith, and the previous failed GA reviews. If you can substantially address the sourcing problems and level of detail (as described in 2b and 3b below) throughout the entire article in the next 72 hours, I think we'll be in a good place to continue. Otherwise, I'll have to close the review as unsuccessful. If these seems like too much in too little time, remember that that's ok! This is a volunteer site and not every article has to be a GA to be valuable or useful. Thanks for your improvements thus far. —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:17, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Checking the
WP:RSN discussions about Uproxx, it seems to be reliable, however it is a bit more opinion-based. Any thoughts about the source? Brachy08(Talk) 00:58, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply
]
If you can find an even better replacement, great, but if not, I agree Uproxx could reasonably stay in. —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, 72 hours have passed, and significant issues remain with sourcing and level of detail throughout large parts of the article. As I said above, that means I will have to close this review as unsuccessful. However, please don't be too discouraged by this - your changes have made a big difference already and the article is in much-improved shape from where it was two weeks ago. Getting an article this big and this visible to GA is a remarkably difficult task. In the future, the issues below are fully addressed, and you feel confident the article is ready for another review, please feel free to ping me if you renominate. Thank you for your hard work and happy editing! —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:29, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline
.
What are the sources for the claim that Grande is "one of the most prominent vocalists of her generation"? How about the sources for "pop icon"? Per
WP:LEADCITE
, it's ok if these sources are not in the lead directly, but they should be in a relevant passage in the body of the article somewhere.
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
Citations with multiple references, like #4 (on Hose-McCann communications), probably don't need so many. Pick the most reliable source or couple of sources that include the relevant information and the rest can be removed.
Is M Magazine a reliable source?
Entertainment Tonight is probably not reliable enough to be included (#10, Nonna)
Some citations are inconsistently formatted - for instance, #s 12 and 13 give the publication as South Florida Sun-Sentinel, unlinked, while #14 gives it as Sun-Sentinel, linked. The first two are in in cite-website format which should be changed to cite-news. Please check for this issue elsewhere as well.
The MTV biography (#16) links to a generic page, though the archive works. Please update the link or mark it as a deadlink (there's a line for that in the template).
Entertainment Cheat Sheet is not a reliable source.
Is Girl2watch.com a reliable source?
#22 (her own official website) is probably not independent enough to be used for that kind of information. Please find a different source or remove the info.
TVByTheNumbers no longer exists - please mark the link as dead. Is it a reliable source? Used at least twice (#26, #31).
The Winx club Nickelodeon source doesn't actually support the sentence, it just states that she was cast, not that she voiced the role for two subsequent years. New source needed.
Stephen Thomas Erlewine should be given as the author of the AllMusic bio
marrsattacks.com does not appear to be a reliable source and the original link is dead. Please replace with a more suitable source.
#41 (Popular Song) - we don't need a direct youtube link if there's a reliable secondary source which addresses the song.
The Pasadenaplayhouse citation is a bit of a mess - if possible, please track down the original article on broadwayworld.com and cite that.
Fanlala, the original link is dead. Is this a reliable source? Doesn't appear to be on first spec.
Is Rap-Up a reliable source?
Was Teen.com a reliable source at the time of the article used (2013)?
TheSlanted.com - the original link is dead. Is this a reliable source?
Entertainmentwise does not appear to be a reliable source
Queerty.com doesn't appear to be super-reliable - though it's part of a larger network, I can't find an editorial policy and they blur the lines between influencers and journalists according to Q Digital's site.
HiddenRemote link is dead - also, Fansided does not appear to be a reliable source. Please replace
#116 is missing a publisher (Huffington Post) ("Incredibly imitates whitney...")
Ditto for #117 by D'Addario
Is Self (Lanquist) a reliable source?
Stopping at 130 for now. There are over 500 citations in the article! Please do a thorough check for some of the broader issues mentioned above (use of cite-news vs cite-website where appropriate, missing author names, links that no longer work, unreliable sources used repeatedly).
Not every comment above has been addressed, and there are still many unreliable or potentially unreliable sources cited throughout the remainder of the article, including but not limited to: Eonline.com, The Fader (PR), E! News Australia, TicketNews, Forbes blogspam, Buzzfeed (not Buzzfeed News), iheartradio.com, meaww.com (MEA Worldwide), E!, The Face, Uproxx (marginal), neonlimelight.com (Limelight Spotlight Q&A), Hollywoodlife, Footwear News, US Weekly, cambio.com, Gay Times, Visual Capitalist, celebdirtylaundry.com
In addition, there are formatting issues and missing information, such as missing authors, publishers, capitalization (seeing a lot of lowercasing - jezebel, npr, pitchfork, Vh1...)
The 104.3 myFM Lana Del Rey interview doesn't appear to contain the information it's being used to support.
^ This takes us up through #292. The article has serious sourcing issues and will require a lot of work to get it to GA standard. All these unreliable sources should be removed, and the information they support should be removed as well, unless a reliable source is found with the same details. Please also go through sources #293-492 and remove other unreliable sources (you can always check at
WP:RSN
.
More unreliable or poor sources; Rappler (content is an ad, not actual news), Hits Daily Double, Capital FM, Soompi, TigerBeat, RCN Radio, Febre Teen, Create & Cultivate (PR, also misspelled), Ask Anything Chat, Epic Media Labs, Inquisitr, Routenote, Nickutopia (misspelled as Nikutopia), Refinery29 (marginal), TMZ, TheNational.ae (PR), Alist (PR), LaunchMetrics, Product Placement Blog, I-Spot, PR Newswire (PR), The Zoe Report, PR Newswire again, Cohan (Shelley, Forbes contributor), WetPaint, Mirror, CathNewsUSA, Yahoo Celebrity (marginal), Cosmopolitan (marginal), Business Insider (marginal),
Is Zonales reliable?
The Yahoo YDE source is a copy of a Billboard article - swap in the Billboard original.
Missing details on #323 (signs with new management) from Billboard.
#360, OfficialArianaGrande, about her charity, is insufficiently independent to be used a source for a flattering claim like that. Need a source that's not her website.
Ditto for PIX morning news, not independent enough since it's just her saying it.
In contrast to some of the overdetail below, I find the Manchester bombing a little undercovered and wouldn't mind a couple more sentences on its impact on her personally. As I recall there was a lot of sympathy and it was just an all-around horrific thing for everybody.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
This article definitely has an issue with "going into unnecessary detail." As a famous pop star and celebrity, there is a whole industry, including many reliable sources, dedicated to reporting on just about everything Ariana Grande does in public. However, not all of these details need to be included here. This article is packed with unnecessary details about very minor appearances, ranking listings, or incidents. I will list some examples below, but a thorough pass of the whole article should be made to remove trivial detail. That will help the article become a proper summary of her life and career, rather than appearing to be written for fans of Grande.
On October 9, 1998, during the inaugural regular-season hockey game of the Florida Panthers at National Car Rental Center, Grande became the first child to ever ride a Zamboni in the brand-new arena during the first intermission, the result of her parents' $200 winning bid at an auction.
Is this relevant in some way? Strikes me as trivial detail.
The following month, Billboard magazine ranked Grande at number four on their list of "Music's Hottest Minors 2013", an annual ranking of the most popular musicians under the age of 21.
Rolling Stone placed this song at number 40 on its list of The 50 Most Inspirational LGBTQ Songs of All Time
premiered at the 2014 Radio Disney Music Awards on April 26, 2014
Billboard listed the single among the greatest Holiday songs of all time, while Official Charts Company ranked it the best biggest female Christmas song of the 21st century
Grande made a cameo appearance in the comedy film Zoolander 2 starring Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson
Grande won an online voting poll on Entertainment Weekly as the "best host of the season". In May 2016, Grande appeared on The Voice season 10 finale, performing the second single from the album, "Into You", which peaked at number 13 in the United States, and duetted with Christina Aguilera on "Dangerous Woman".
"Singer makes guest appearance on singing show" is very run-of-the-mill.
In August 2016, Grande performed a tribute to the late Whitney Houston on the season finale of the ABC television series Greatest Hits and headlined the opening night of the second annual Billboard Hot 100 Music Festival, performing a nearly hour-long set of her own songs.
Similarly, "singer performs tribute to another singer" and "singer sings at music festival for an hour" are very normal things for a pop star to do and not really worth including. Summarized information about her own tours and *major* other performances is good - this sort of detail is probably too much.
Aside from music, Grande filmed a commercial for T-Mobile that premiered in October 2016
The same month, Grande and Stevie Wonder appeared on the season finale of the US competition TV series The Voice, performing their collaboration "Faith" from the soundtrack of the 2016 animated film Sing. "Faith" was nominated for Best Original Song at the 74th Golden Globe Awards. At the end of the year, Grande participated in the Jingle Ball Tour 2016.
On March 31, 2017, Calvin Harris released a song titled "Heatstroke" from his album Funk Wav Bounces Vol. 1, which featured Grande, Young Thug, and Pharrell Williams. On April 27, 2017, Norwegian DJ Cashmere Cat released the fifth song "Quit" from his debut album 9 featuring Grande.
In general, unless they were particularly impactful, or relevant to her initial rise to fame, guest appearances on other people's songs are probably not important enough to be mentioned here.
In August 2017, Grande appeared in an Apple Music Carpool Karaoke episode, singing musical theatre songs with American entertainer Seth MacFarlane.
Stopping before the 2018–2019 subsection. Using the above comments as a guide, please go through the remainder of the 'Career' section and remove this kind of trivial detail where you find it. Happy to provide further guidance if requested. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 12:42, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Things like "debuted seven live performances on Vevo" and "headlined a Fortnite concert" is another good example of the sort of overdetail that simply doesn't need to be included here. This isn't supposed to be an exhaustive reference of everything Grande has done - it's a *summary* of her life and career.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
Other comments to come, but this quote is just too egregious as flattery and should be significantly shortened:
Composer and playwright Jason Robert Brown wrote in a 2016 Time magazine article, "[N]o matter how much you are underestimated ... you are going to open your mouth and that unbelievable sound is going to come out. That extraordinary, versatile, limitless instrument that allows you to shut down every objection and every obstacle.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
There have been significant expansions in the last week in several sections, and a number of recent discussions on the the talk page about neutrality, changes to the lead, and other issues are not fully resolved. This makes it difficult to expect that if it reaches GA standard during this review, that it will remain there without significant ongoing effort. What are your thoughts on this issue?
File:Ariana Grande interview 2016.png - the Commons page is not very clear on why this image is not under copyright / public domain. Could you clarify or improve the Commons description?
Issue addressed - provisional pass but will have to recheck at end of review.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 March 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Change spouse since she is officially divorced as of 2023. 194.230.147.220 (talk) 16:40, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: If you are referring to the infobox at the beginning of the article, the text already has dates that indicate when the marriage began and ended. If you're not referring to the infobox, please indicate where within the article the text that you want changed is. Thank you. Aoi (青い) (talk) 17:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can someone please change her picture?
The picture is almost an decade old. Can someone please update the picture? Grande went to Oscars this years, I am sure there must be licensed pictures of her from the red carpet JabSaiyaan (talk) 07:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. There appears to be an edit war ongoing over the photo. Huskago (talk) 07:28, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Huskago @JabSaiyaan If you two could also assist in searching for some available images, please do. Mostly, images from 2024 SNL / Oscars AskeeaeWiki (talk) 20:18, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While I have seen no photos from the Oscars that have licenses that can be used here, personally, I don't know what rational argument anyone has against using the only recent photo of her available that checks all the boxes of what a lead image should have. This isn't a case of Billie Eilish, where people want to go frequently changing the photo for no good reason.
For whatever reason, that one makes her head look squashed. So much so that I found it positively distracting when I happened to visit the article while it was in place. YMMV.
@Trillfendi The photo always gets reverted because it "isn't appropriate". However, Elizabeth Gilles (Ariana Grande's long-time friend) posted a candid of her on Instagram, which I believe can be used. Here is the link (slide 7):
We cannot use Instagram photos without the permission or request of the celebrity or if they add the photo to the Commons themselves (which are rare instances but have happened). Though that would be much more convenient if we could. Trillfendi (talk) 15:04, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand you believe the picture used may be outdated. Why does it matter? First of all, Wikipedia pages are meant to give information about the topic, in which it does so. Second of all, even if the picture may be "almost a decade old," she still looks great in it. I think the picture is good for the article because it shows Ariana at a concert, singing, which is what she is famous for. The point: The picture is not the primary part of the Wikipedia page, and I don't think it's so bad that it should be reported on. 72.85.199.109 (talk) 21:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have been a Wikipedia editor long enough to know what the expected criteria for lead images are. I made articles like Harry Styles and Rihanna into good articles, so at this point I know what popular articles require. It doesn't matter how "great" she looks in it or not (that's purely subjective and we can all agree that she looks great all the time), it is not representative of her current appearance being that this photo is the only photo available since the 2020s decade even started. In fact this is the only available to use photo of her face since 2016! That photo should be in the 2013–2015: Yours Truly and My Everything section and replace the zoomed out one. Trillfendi (talk) 21:39, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Trillfendi Grande looks good in the Vogue photo. We aren't in any position to judge Grande's looks for an infobox image. I support using the 2023 image. 𝘮𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭'𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘺, 22:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just disambiguating that when I say appearance I don't mean anything related to beauty but how she actually currently looks. A 30 year old woman isn't going to look the same as she did as a 22 year old woman and that's why I believe the article ought to reflect that. Trillfendi (talk) 22:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Trillfendi Yeah, I agree. An image of Grande from 2015 does not reflect how she looks now. I'll let you make the image change. 𝘮𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭'𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘺, 22:52, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like the 2020 photo has been deleted. What is the qualities for a photo to be accepted? Cwater1 (talk) 02:43, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cwater1 Should comply with Wikimedia Commons' requirements for an image to be allowed. If its licensed for use it should be good (I searched on flickr and did not find anything its always "all rights reserved") 𝘮𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭'𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘺, 05:38, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I like helping with contributing. Cwater1 (talk) 17:09, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't know why the lead photo was changed back to 2015 photo? Cwater1 (talk) 02:36, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now that we have consensus, I will change it. Trillfendi (talk) 17:23, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I don't agree with the photo change. The most recent one comes from a YouTube tutorial. Grande is an artist and performer. In the previous picture, she is seen with doing exactly that, while wearing cat ears, one of her signature looks. The blonde hair she currently wears is temporary, and her eyebrows are also bleached. She doesn't look like herself, she looks like the character she plays in the Wicked films. The photo is strangely close, she appears emotional. It just an unflattering photo. Why do you all care if the 2015 picture is older? It's still better than her latest, which doesn't do her any favors. I would definitely agree to add a picture from this year's Oscars. I think this is more appropriate than a random screenshot of her doing a tutorial on YouTube. Furthermore, I see that only one editor agrees, while most just want a more recent image, meaning they don't specifically agree with the latest image. So I'm going to change it back to the one that has been the main image since November until there are better photos of her in 2024. Grande will be on a lot of red carpets promoting her film this year, and there's a chance she'll be touring again. Mirrored7 (talk) 00:20, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the use of the Vogue screen capture (
ownership bullshit happening here. It's become very clear [many] believe the main image should be changed. Enough is enough. livelikemusic(TALK!) 15:21, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply
]
Still, there's no reason to use that image. You seem to be very hostile and biased. I already said, that the image should be changed to something recent at some point, when there is an appropriate one from this year. The main image is good as it is for now, it shows her as an entertainer on the stage, that's what her occupation says, it's much better than whatever that 2023 image is. She doesn't look like herself, it's screenshot, she looks emotional/sad in it. You can't tell me any good reasons why it should be the main, besides that it's the most recent and follows the protocol. I'm always trying to stay objective, and imagine someone else searching after “Ariana Grande” on Wikipedia, and the first he sees is a random image of her doing a YouTube tutorial, while her occupations clearly says that she's a singer /actress. Why that most recent image of hers should be the main, if it's clearly one of her worst and has no quality at all? Mirrored7 (talk) 22:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not going to respond to the
personal attacks being thrown as deflections — what I will say what Trillfendi stated above echoes my feelings entirely. livelikemusic(TALK!) 23:21, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply
]
I seem to agree with using the 2023 photo. I refer recent better for lead. Cwater1 (talk) 19:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe move to the voting phase. Cwater1 (talk) 19:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it even needs that. It was changed with consensus, and changed back without. Huskago (talk) 20:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I don't know that there's anyone at all who doesn't agree that the image "should be changed", as such. That's not the issue. The issue is that there's currently no available alternative able to generate consensus that it would be, on balance, an improvement on the established one. In that situation, my understanding is that leaving it alone until a better alternative does become available is the proper and only thing to do. That individual editors have more vested motivations than that is likely true, but also neither here nor there.
Not done for now: Looks like there was just a discussion about changing the photo, directly above this section, so this request is unlikely to be uncontroversial. I have no objection to an image change personally. Tollens (talk) 09:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the lists. If this page is on additional lists, they will be noted below.
Hi fellow editors. The conversation about changing Ariana's photo seems to be going nowhere. From what I can see, there doesn't seem to be any decisions being made but constant edit warring, so I thought starting an RFC would be the best course of action. There are so many images available so I am unsure why this has become a problem but hopefully this speeds things along. Comment below which photo you think the article should to change to and feel free to comment on why! Maxwell King123321 01:43, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
New lead image
A (current image)
B
C
B as its less blurrier than the other two. Maxwell King123321 01:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I added an RFC tag. Aoi (青い) (talk) 02:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment (Summoned by bot): this isn't going to be super helpful to resolving any existing impasse, but honestly, despite the fact that I've been RfC'd to/stumbled upon more than a dozen of these 'pick the BLP lead image' RfCs over the years, and always try to find some encyclopedically relevant criteria by which to provide feedback, this time I just can't see much difference between the options: all would be appropriate choices for the lead image: A and C arguably do a better job of representing the subject within the context that defines her notability, but B is more typical of BLP lead images and is arguably just a little more neutral and encyclopedically objective by just the slightest of degrees as a result. I would not have been shocked to find any of them as the lead image had I arrived at this article as a reader. SnowRise let's rap 12:49, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Status quo or RFC withdrawn These images are bad. B is horrible. C isn't really an improvement. This could all be avoided if there was a better image available, this RFC is basically just forcing the issue. Nemov (talk) 13:57, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Status quo or RFC withdrawn Essentially what Nemov said. Between these three, I would choose C, due to it combining the aspect of her performing as in picture A and the (relative) recency of picture B. Overall, I would let this topic be until we get a clear answer over whether she's touring this year or manage to get a photo that's in the public domain. Isthmus55 (talk) 14:12, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Status quo or RFC withdrawn, i.e., A (current image) (Summoned by bot): A is the only good image of the three, and shows her doing what made her notable in the first place. B is an unusual angle and zoom/crop for a bio photo. She's posed almost as though for a driver's license photo! Shot from below eye level is an unusual angle to see a not-very-tall musician photographed from. C is just a bad photo, with harsh shadows and the subject being underlit. Neither proposed change will improve the article. Vadder (talk) 14:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
B I don’t care about “doing what makes her notable” more than I care about the reading audience having an unobstructed, clear, modern, quality image of her face that isn’t from 2 presidents ago. It’s a perfectly fine image of her in her current age group. No other photos are available of the 2020s and that’s the problem. The fact that this is available and properly licensed (no copyright violations) is a no-brainer. Trillfendi (talk) 15:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done: If you are referring to the infobox at the beginning of the article, the text already has dates that indicate when the marriage began and ended. If you're not referring to the infobox, please indicate where within the article the text that you want changed is. Thank you. Aoi (青い) (talk) 17:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
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A (current image)
B
C
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