Talk:COVID-19 pandemic/Archive 13

Haven't received much feedback in the last two days so thought I'd post a notification here before moving forward with the merge.

Proposal here:

seems reasonable--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:52, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

For the second time, I have found the lead calling this an "epidemic" instead of an outbreak. The title and the lead need to be consistent on whether this is one or the other. At this time, I have changed the lead back to saying "oubreak" again, and am starting to watch this page to see who (if anyone) changes it back. Please let's keep an eye on this, and seek justification for changing it to read "epidemic". If the use of "epidemic" can be justified, then let's move the page to 2019-20 Coronavirus epidemic. If the case is that strong, the move will be easy. (BTW - I still want other parts of the title changed, but that is a separate issue.) EMS | Talk 03:18, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

@Ems57fcva: What sources would you like to consult from to say "epidemic"? I've got some articles that use the word in their headlines:

• CNBC
• NY Times
• The Atlantic
• Global News

In fact, the last one ponders if or when it will classified as a pandemic. I remember seeing someone saying in an edit summary if there's sufficient evidence to submit a move request, so I might open one if I find a few more different news sources. --Tenryuu (🐲 • 💬 • 🌟) 05:17, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: I would not call those sources authoritative. But trying to nail down the case against you instead led me to The WHO Disease outbreaks page which lists "Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV)" in the "Pandemic, epidemic diseases" section. So this is an outbreak that is classified as epidemic. As best I can now tell, using the word "epidemic" in the lead and keeping "outbreak" in the title makes sense. That way, the lead can be updated if and when the outbreak becomes a pandemic while the title can stay the same. So I withdraw my objections. You may revert my edit whenever you like. EMS | Talk 05:02, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@Ems56fcva: How would you suggest wording it? It's categorized under that section but is still referred to as an outbreak. "The WHO considers it to be epidemic-level"? --Tenryuu (🐲 • 💬 • 🌟) 00:15, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: I am happy to let you just call it an epidemic. When it gets to be a pandemic, I would change that word but also reference the press release where the change is announced (as well as also noting the event of the outbreak being declared a pandemic later on in the introduction). As-is, I am satisfied that I overstepped in calling you out on this issue and apologize for that. Sometimes you just have to live and learn. EMS | Talk 04:16, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@Ems57fcva: Don't worry about it; just wanted to make sure I wouldn't get embroiled in an edit war. --Tenryuu (🐲 • 💬 • 🌟) 19:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

As Doc James just said in the section immediately above this, this is both an outbreak and an epidemic. It's not inconsistent to use both words, though we should use them appropriately. 199.66.69.88 (talk) 05:20, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

@199.66.69.88: From what I understand "epidemic" is classified under "outbreak". I think for precision's sake an argument can be made to call it an "epidemic" over "outbreak". --Tenryuu (🐲 • 💬 • 🌟) 05:32, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

it doesn't matter if its called outbreak or epidemic, for all intents and purposes, and esp for wiki purposes, the words are equivalent. --Almaty (talk) 12:33, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Statistics by country should include a separate total for all cases outside of PR China, same as here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome#Epidemiology (see the line close to the bottom that says 'Total excluding China'). Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.67.13.101 (talk) 00:48, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, I agree with this suggestion because a ROTW sub-total is very informative, gives a useful additional perspective, and there is a clear precedent in the original 2002-04 SARS page (as mentioned by OP). History DMZ (talk) 05:11, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

• Follow-up: This type of edit requires extended confirmed user access level, but you can still request it here: Submit an edit request. History DMZ (talk) 08:12, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

This table is not being maintained properly. First, the totals as of right now (6:51 PM PT / 9:51 PM ET) aren't correct - the number of total deaths is 57 higher than shown (should be 2,801). Second, by refusing to add the line which I have now requested on the other page, people don't get a clear picture of totals outside of China and that is MANIPULATIVE and DANGEROUS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NoWikiNoLife (talk • contribs) 02:55, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Would it be possible to display and update cases by country? — Preceding unsigned comment

The map at the top of this page is scary. Is this what we are supposed to be showing to readers as the very first thing they see when they come to Wikipedia looking for information about this disease? I get that the map is "just reporting facts", but even so... In my opinion, this is not a neutral point of view.

• A country gets colored if there is a single case. This means that when the first two cases in Russia (population nearly 150,000,000) appear, a significant part of the entire map is colored pink.

• A country is colored bright red (DANGER!) if there are 10 cases. Anyone from the US coming here (population 330,000,000) can easily get the impression that their whole country is in danger, just because 1 in every 10,000,000 people has become infected. Not necessarily died, mind you, just infected - a fact that you might easily miss if you come here and just start staring at the changing map.

Wouldn't it be a much better representation of the facts if we used a scale like the following? Also the color doesn't really have to be shades of red, it can for instance be yellow.

• 0: default, gray or white

• 1-9: very light shade, almost indistinguishable from 0

• 10-99: slightly darker

• 100-999: next level

Etc. KarlFrei (talk) 08:40, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@KarlFrei: That's actually the scale that Metropolitan used for the map. 1-4 cases is shaded a light pink, and the color gets progressively darker, based on the amount of confirmed cases. It's a bit hard to tell in the infobox alone, unless you click on the map to get a full view of it. OhKayeSierra (talk) 10:28, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

The color shades of the scale categories are adjusted according to the ongoing situation to offer the best contrast (which is also required for an optimized accessibility). There's been already an adjustment in the past (bright red used to be for 4-9 cases and now it is for 10-49 cases). Probably at this stage we should indeed group 1-4 and 5-9 as a single category and create an additional 10,000+ category. This kind of adjustment are long though as the animated gif consists of 40 different SVG files added frame by frame. As such, I need to update 40 maps each time I adjust the scale.

NB: For discussion on the animated GIF, it's probably better to group all discussions on its Wikimedia talk page. Thanks to post additional comments on the topic there. Metropolitan (talk) 10:58, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Please, do not change the colour of countries with 1-4 cases to anything lighter. That would mean Egypt and Lebanon would be hard to spot, and considering the terrible medical apparatus in those countries, it would be incredibly deceiving.--Adûnâi (talk) 14:30, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

I would like to continue the discussion here if you don't mind. The reason is that I strongly believe that Wikipedia should not be showing an animated gif AT ALL to (probably worried) people who are looking for reliable information on this topic. It creates the illusion of unstoppability, even apart from the colors that are screaming "Danger!"... I apologize for not making this clearer in my first post. @Metropolitan: I do of course appreciate the work that you have put into this graph, I just think it may unfortunately make people needlessly upset. KarlFrei (talk) 16:18, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

We could switch colour palette, but the disease is spreading around the world, it may be unstoppable, and it is a very dangerous situation. Bondegezou (talk) 17:04, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

I happen to have started a section on the map being scary at its commons page :P. I have to both agree and disagree here - yes it is scary, because yes, its very, very likely it is (going to be) a pandemic / unstoppable. However, on the other hand, the disease is not SARS or Ebola, where every third case or more dies (with plenty of otherwise healthy young people in the mix).

From what is currently known, it's more comparable to influenza - mostly old people, especially those that already have health issues, are likely to die (which is bad as well of course, but on a different scale). The big difference to the regular seasonal influenza is that you will be seeing far larger sections of the population infected - so likely far more hospitalisations (and deaths). The biggest problem (from the disease itself) at first is likely to be the strain to health systems. Of course, you also have pretty severe issues already that are caused by government reactions to the outbreak (lockdowns and travel restrictions...). So I can't guage what the impact on the economy (and general global stability) will be :( ....

Regards Sean Heron (talk) 00:15, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

However, on the other hand, the disease is not SARS or Ebola, where every third case or more dies (with plenty of otherwise healthy young people in the mix). Going a bit further off-topic here, but the relatively low lethality is part of why it’s so scary—it can more easily infect vulnerable people because those who get it aren’t dropping dead, and so the number of dead in absolute terms could easily become much higher. This is why influenza is so bad. The Atlantic ran a good article about this the other day. 199.66.69.88 (talk) 00:37, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I guess its pretty seldom to see users (ie you and me) that were so fiercely adversarial on a topic (that is - on the move discussion here) having jovial (hmm - not quite the fitting term, friendly/polite, whatever) discussions just a couple days later. I guess that's owed to the circumstances... (anyway, makes for a nice change, and so I definitely welcome that :D ! )

Back on "off"-topic - if I can be understand as saying that the outbreak/pandemic is not going to be pretty harsh, then I didn't communicate well :/. I'm very certain there are going to be hundreds of thousands of deaths (at least!). The point I was trying to make is that I don't think there's good reasons to be scared of infection itself [though if you are old / have immune deficiencies, I'm afraid there is :( ] - but the outbreak itself as a whole definitely is very, very worrying, and is going to effect people around the world in a manner that's not be seen in a hundred years, I'm very certain... Sean Heron (talk) 09:23, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I would be generally surprised if this disease comes even close to causing 100 000 deaths. Even the massive

2009 flu pandemic was much worse. So at this time COVID-19 is not all causing an impact to humanity that's "not been seen in a hundred years".Tvx

1 18:58, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I'd be happy if your feeling was right, but I'm afraid thats not the case. I'll try to connect the dots (while keeping it semi-brief - the place for a more comprehensive answer is elsewhere):

The point you make is somewhat self-contradictory. You point to the West-African-Ebola outbreak as "massive" - but that was an outbreak restricted to a region of one continent. The coronavirus/COVID-19 outbreak is (going to be) a pandemic, so essentially you have 8 billion people that can potentially be infected... So even with a lethality say of only 1/30 of that of Ebola (that would be around 1% of all infected), your actually not going to have just 100s of thousands, but millions of deaths, I'm afraid :(. There are some scenarios where that number might be lower (eg. very, very rapid development and widespread deployment of vaccines, or a substantial evolution towards more rapid spread but linked to lower lethality of the virus). But there are other factors that could lead to a lot more deaths as well - the most relevant in my view being: health systems being overwhelmed, or in poorer countries, underresourced; and shortages due to the economic disruption that is likely (due to absenteeism because of infection or family-care requirements, but also continued imposition of harsh quarantine and isolation measures through governments.). Sean Heron (talk) 16:26, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Just to add to that - the fact that its going to be a pandemic has been obvious for a while now - if you listened to the experts. That is, epidemiologists, rather than the virologists that were often presented in the media here in germany for some reason (of course the public institutes such as rki also seem to have been more concerned at keeping things calm then informing sincerly... well, what do you expect of governments I guess). Here's a german article in a major paper (by a molecular-biologist) pointing out pandemic spread: "Containment was yesterday". Sean Heron (talk) 16:50, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Just for completeness sake - a CNN article that looks at the possible economic fallout, and one from the South-China-Morning-Post on some of the psychology of why many people tend to cling onto the idea of containing the virus (from two weeks ago!). Regards, and all the best to all! Sean Heron (talk) 03:33, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I think you're overreacting massively here. 8 billion infected would be the entire population of the earth. There is no indication whatsoever it would end up at that point. Even some of the worst pandemics we had in history like the

2009 flu pandemic to see that this disease does not have such dramatic proportions.Tvx

1 18:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Doc James and I agree I think, I just asked him advice about this on his talk page. Please review this diff

and achieve consensus. Good night --Almaty (talk) 14:42, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

The basis is that the EU health advisory uses an additional term "exhale", rather than simply stating "cough" and "sneeze". I found a semi-unrelated article in Nature which uses the term "exhale" to describe viruses in droplets. China Daily also uses the term "exhale" (for a source closer to the epidemic). Furthermore, read the paragraphs below from BMC by Chinese researchers:

"‘Aerosols’ would also include ‘droplet nuclei’ which are small particles with an aerodynamic diameter of 10 μm or less, typically produced through the process of rapid desiccation of exhaled respiratory droplets [5, 6]. However, in some situations, such as where there are strong ambient air cross-flows, for example, larger droplets can behave like aerosols with the potential to transmit infection via this route (see next section below)... the infected patients produce infectious droplets of varying sizes by breathing, coughing or sneezing, transmission between individuals by both short-range large droplets and airborne small droplet nuclei are both possible, depending on the distance from the patient source." http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12879-019-3707-y

• http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/novel-coronavirus-china/questions-answers

• http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02938-1

• http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202002/10/WS5e40afbaa3101282172762db.html

Tsukide (talk) 14:59, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

• I understand the argument. However this is “possible” in your sources even. Your wording conveys no uncertainty. it may be misinderstood as the world needs to use airborne precautions which is a different thing. This virus is not proven to be airborne, and this is impossible to do. And not recommended. But for here we have to stick to
  WP:SYNTH Third comment please? —49.195.120.46 (talk
  ) 15:22, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

WHO says Quote "The disease can spread from person to person through small droplets from the nose or mouth which are spread when a person with COVID-19 coughs or exhales"

CDC says Quote = The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person... Via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes.

Both agree on respiratory droplets. CDC says coughing more well WHO also says breathing... Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:37, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

The CDC does not outweigh the EU. Only the WHO can be considered more authoritative. And "breathe" is a even worse word. Not sure if your intentions are well meaning anymore. Tsukide (talk) 17:41, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

• @Tsukide: we all have well intentioned meanings. All three sources agree that these are respiratory droplets, and all three of us editors agree that these are respiratory droplets but for a concise lead it shouldn't say "exhale" or "breathe" - because that isn't 100% clear in a precise, small amount of words required for the lead. if you like I would suggest that you edit and expand the wiki linked respiratory droplets, or later in the article. Otherwise this may confuse the general reader as an overview. --Almaty (talk) 19:24, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
  • User:Tsukide I am not sure why you keep removing the references. Both the CDC and WHO are perfectly reasonable sources.
  • With respect to being spread during breathing, the WHO supports this so I know think it is reasonable for us to say it as well.
  • The authoritativeness of WHO and the CDC are equal in my opinion. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:49, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

The CDC receives virtually no data on the matter in comparison to WHO. The latter is more updated and in-contact with health authorities in the Asia-Pacific region. While various universities in the US attract a large number of researchers, the Asia-Pacific has by far some of the best healthcare systems in the world. I've seen sources here for the NHS which is beyond laughable considering they have no need to care about the coronavirus as they are not directly affected with sustained community spread. The CDC is merely a government agency without access to private sector researchers - do you trust the standards placed by the FDA on milk and other US drugs? Or the EU? There are many reasons why the CDC should be avoided in preference for the WHO or sources from the Asia-Pacific. Tsukide (talk) 04:59, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @Tsukide:. Its not so much about what is the most reliable source of the three, its is about the wording. Happy with the current wording. --Almaty (talk) 07:16, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

User:Almaty you need to specify which wording you are happy with as it changes continuously. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

User:Doc James I am not happy with "small droplets produced during breathing". because that can imply that it is airborne. I think the summary before was good and included exhaled as so many people want (I see why, its just a little confusing and overemphasised) "small respiratory droplets exhaled (such as cough or sneeze)" --Almaty (talk) 23:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

User:Almaty how about "The virus is primarily spread between people by droplets produced during breathing or coughing."? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

User:Doc James I wouldn't use that because that is the definition of airborne transmission in common parlance. If we say respiratory droplets, this is clear to the reader, otherwise we need to make the distinction spelt out. I think the general reader knows what a respiratory droplet is, and we can wikilink it --Almaty (talk) 19:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Okay readded and linked "respiratory droplets" User:Almaty Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

"The virus passes from one person to others via

Versus

"The virus is primarily spread between people by

User:Almaty the problem is that this is not the only way it is spread. It can also likely be picked up by contaminated objects. Thus "primary" is important. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

respiratory droplets produced during coughing, sneezing, and breathing."" In regard to other transmission modes, this should only be updated via WHO i suggest. --Almaty (talk

) 22:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Also i know that many sources use "spread" here but i think for wiki purposes I would like to use "spread" for geographical spread and "transmission" for transmission mode. Not married to it --22:21, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

The last sentence of the "Overview" section states, "Evidence shows that the transmissibility of the coronavirus is sufficient for sustained community transmission and locally acquired cases have been reported across the world, along with several deaths." The last four words seem strange considering the next section shows 2,593 deaths and the words follow "reported across the world". Otr500 (talk) 21:30, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

What would you replace it with? Tsukide (talk) 06:41, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

"I didn't see, or missed, the use of "several deaths" in the source but this would generally be a low number like three or four, and is non-specific. I can understand that since the number is likely to change a lot so a specific number might be quickly dated. It has far surpassed several. Maybe a source and a date such as -- "As of {date} there were X number of deaths reported." -- Otr500 (talk) 01:23, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I am proposing that we split out the economic and social impact into a separate article called "

Agree : With many Chinese-oriented events being cancelled almost from the beginning of the outbreak plus with Italy's regional lockdown I think there's enough material to warrant a page of its own. --Tenryuu (🐲 • 💬 • 🌟) 00:02, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Agree : It is better due to the high volume of information that may (or is) be clogging the article. FranciscoMMartins (talk) 00:42, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

 Disagree: Financial is a side-effect.  — master son^{T - C} 01:44, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

This page should focus on the overall impact of the coronavirus outbreak, and not have multiple sub headers on its side effects. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:09, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

 Disagree: While the article is quite lengthy in its current state, there is no need to completely erase the sections of the economic and social impact of COVID-19 from this article and move them into another one. Rather, if the effects do become quite lengthy, then we can always use the existing section to briefly summarize aforementioned effects and elaborate upon them by leaving a "main article" link in the section in the future. Only time will tell if these actions will be necessary. RayDeeUx (talk) 02:36, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

 Disagree: The page isn't too long as of now. But that doesn't mean another page shouldn't be created. I'm supportive of creating a new page AND keeping the section. Tsukide (talk) 05:02, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

The page is too long now, according to normal standards.

WP:SIZERULE says articles with over 100kB of prose "almost certainly should be divided" and articles with over 60kB of prose "probably should be divided". This article currently has 98kB of prose. Dekimasuよ!

07:59, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

WP:SUMMARY to keep the section concise. Essentially all the impacted countries have their own domestic pages at this point point. Sleath56 (talk

) 05:27, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Agree I agree with the proposal to the extent that when a section needs to be split out, this is the most likely area for splitting. Dekimasuよ! 07:59, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Agree Please also note that I tried my best to reorganise it just a little... its mainly section headings. theres so much content IMO there should be several spin outs. --Almaty (talk) 09:33, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

• Comment The article has already been created, which renders a proposal for a simple split moot, rather it's split and merge. Some here seem to think that this means removing this section from the article, which is not true, since per
  WP:CORRECTSPLIT, a summary should be left in the section of this article. The article is getting too big, and the content of this section should go into the new article, therefore move the content to the new article and focus on creating a good summary in the section. Hzh (talk
  ) 14:43, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
• Agree per
  WP:SUMMARYSTYLE. This doesn't mean removing all info but rather having a sourced summary here and more details in sub-article. buidhe
  20:25, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Agree large amount of information 71.215.246.127 (talk)

Agree As of my response, this article is about 400kB of prose, four times the upper limit for articles, per

WP:SIZERULE. 9March2019 (talk

) 00:10, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Agree Not only is the article long, but we can expect it to get much longer very fast given the number of countries now Gegu0284 (talk) 11:46, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Two items for discussion.

@Tsukide and Doc James: Last month, I expanded the Prevention section to relay critical recommendations from the CDC and WHO. Today, I cleaned up the section and removed some duplicate content. It looks like Doc James made a few constructive edits and then everyone's edits were reverted by Tsukide. Can we discuss? I think this is one of the most important sections in the whole topic as it can literally save lives so I'm hoping it can clearly communicate key information.

Also, I was thinking of adding one more section below Respiratory hygiene and above Vaccines as follows. It could be important information as the virus spreads but let me know if you think it's too much though. I'm content that we got the two major bases covered with Respiratory hygiene and Hand washing.

- Wikmoz (talk) 05:26, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Critical information from the Ministry of Health in Singapore and Hong Kong should be retained. The CDC is not an authoritative source here, only WHO. Singapore and Hong Kong have among the best healthcare systems in the world and have far more data on SARS and COV-2 than the CDC. The layout of your edits is also harder to read. Tsukide (talk) 05:38, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

The CDC is not an authoritative source, nor is there any ongoing community transmission in the US. The CDC does not receive medical data from global health authorities as the WHO does. Furthermore, the Asia-Pacific has some of the best healthcare systems in the world and are more likely to provide the best information on how to deal with an ongoing outbreak in their regions. I don't want to hear about what the CDC (or NHS) thinks without first knowing what to do in places where there is a real risk of transmission (for example, most health authorities in East Asia state that one should wear a face mask which is had a significant impact in slowing transmission in places such as Hong Kong, yet the CDC doesn't provide said advice). Hand washing alone is bad advice. Tsukide (talk) 05:43, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I don’t doubt the authority of Singapore or Hong Kong health agencies. Very fair points that additional details should be provided for individuals in high risk areas. However, the CDC is a very authoritative source as well. I included important details regarding the utility and purpose of surgical masks vs. N95 respirators, including the public health benefits of the former. I’ve also been careful to indicate that the CDCs guidance on mask usage applies to the American public and those in low risk areas. Having the opening paragraph directing readers to avoid wet markets and informing them that dogs and cats are ok seems like a missed opportunity. - Wikmoz (talk) 06:07, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

The information provided by health authorities in areas with ongoing community transmission should be prioritized over other countries, because the CDC isn't going to cause panic by publishing information that Americans don't need to hear, nor is it supposed to publish that information. The EU, health authorities in East Asia and the WHO should have more weight, unless there's a genuine reason that makes their authoritativeness questionable (e.g. North Korea or Iran). The health advisory by Singapore is more all-encompassing the paragraphs that were there before, but furthermore it's also useful from the viewpoint of someone in East Asia.

I've moved the animal information to the bottom of that section as you suggested and moved the Singapore advisory up. Singapore's probably the best example of what health authorities in East Asia (and other areas of ongoing community transmission) are saying. The CDC and especially the NHS are no where near to providing high quality information. Tsukide (talk) 06:25, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick fix on that! Only other suggestion would be to move that first bullet regarding meat consumption to the bottom. In the risk spectrum, almost all of the other bullets are more important. In the paragraph that follows the bulleted list, you reattributed the CDC's recommendations to Singapore's Ministry of Health. If they're recommending the same, that's fine and perhaps cite both but right now the reference link is broken. If not, please revise back to CDC. In general, I hear you loud and clear regarding English editors giving perhaps undue weight to Western health agencies. I think agencies in both regions are authoritative. However, keep in mind that rightly or wrongly, recommendations from the CDC and WHO will carry more weight with most English readers than the Ministry of Health in Singapore. I'd keep both. - Wikmoz (talk) 06:49, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm not wholly opposed to the CDC (though using NHS is questionable), but people need to remember that it has far less information and data on SARS-CoV-2 than the WHO and various Asia-Pacific health authorities. It's also primarily a NATIONAL health authority aimed at helping Americans. You're supposed to wear face masks in parts of South Korea and Mainland China due to ongoing community transmission, but it's unlikely that the Antarctic Health Authority is going to alarm anyone living there that they should wear masks and be on the alert for the virus. (Singapore is probably widely recognized as a high quality healthcare system, that speaks English and Chinese, by the Asia-Pacific region and much of the world.) The CDC should only be preferred to WHO (and many Asia-Pacific authorities) when it has new information or special information, or it specifically mentions travel to areas with ongoing community transmission.

I have done what you said. I would prefer to keep the more descriptive (and bullet pointed) advisory from Singapore, but I am okay with you including your paragraph, especially if it is second sourced from an Asia-Pacific/EU/international source. In my opinion, if the CDC is contradicting an authoritative source based in an area of ongoing community transmission, the latter should be preferred.

Tsukide (talk) 07:14, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Looks better with these edits. In the case of a contradiction between two highly-authoritative sources, I think both should be represented and the issue raised on the Talk page. I don't think one source automatically wins over the other. However, from what I've seen and corrected several times, at least with respect to face mask guidance, the contradictions are mostly a product of

WP:SYN and not the actual recommendations. It can be stated as something like: Those in high risk areas are advised to wear face masks in public [cite Singapore, South Korea, and China authorities]. Healthy individuals in low-risk areas are not advised to wear face masks [cite CDC]. - Wikmoz (talk

) 07:46, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Per "The CDC is not an authoritative" ah yes it is. It is the best funded public health organization in the World. It has a higher level of funding than the WHO. It plays a major role in outbreaks including those which are not occurring in the United States.

User:Wikmoz I support your adding these recommendations. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:29, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi there everyone - not having looked at the actual edits, my impression is that everyone has the best intentions here (that is - provide relevant health info to the general public). I have a somewhat unusual suggestion (that I'd been thinking of kicking off myself actually, if you're wondering) - which, while it might not provide the reach this article has, could provide a reference that at least could be pointed out to friends and family: Start a Wikibook - (Coronavirus) Pandemic planning and preparation (nice alliteration there, by the way :P ). It'd be far easier to portray the nuance that seems relevant on this or other points of contention in that. If anyone else is interested, feel free to give me a ping or of course just kick it off yourself! Regards Sean Heron (talk) 19:25, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

A Wikibook is an interesting idea. I think the CDC's COVID-19 site does a great job of presenting critical information in an easy to read format. So I wouldn't want to compete with them in terms of developing and updating recommendations, which will vary by disease. The main appeal of including a summary here is this topic's reach and building awareness of official recommendations. - Wikmoz (talk) 03:58, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Pretty sure it was there in the main article 24 or 48 hours ago, gone now. It was short but seemed backed up by references and seemed relevant, so why was it removed? I can't find where it was removed in the 'view history'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.212.152 (talk) 09:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

it should be in view history, thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 23:56, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

I've looked at the history, had trouble navigating it (not familiar with it), 3rd time lucky.

20th feb <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=941835932&oldid=941830386#Criticism_of_official_statistics>

"Criticism of official statistics"

23rd feb <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=942315990&oldid=942314057#Doubts_about_official_statistics>

"Doubts about official statistics"

24th feb - gone

I can't pin down exactly when it went, but the first quote says a (edit:very) strong thing about the stats coming out of China being too mathematically accurate to be credible, the 2nd damps it down ('criticism' -> 'doubts') and removes that quote, then that small section disappears altogether.

The official stats are, and I'm speaking as someone with a maths background but not in stats, deeply dubious. While China's figures can't be disputed on fact alone because they are purely China-produced, something is really not right, and they do have a track record there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.105.114 (talk) 08:32, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Is there any reason this mysterious (to me) downgrading then disappearance of the section doesn't bother anyone else? I'd like to know because probably I'm missing something obvious, but if not then should it be reinstated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.236.114 (talk) 11:28, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

This 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

because of political reasons

Number of cases in Kuwait has risen from 18 to 25 according to the Ministry of Health. Source:https://twitter.com/KUWAIT_MOH/status/1232616676157464576 TheSkele27 (talk) 11:29, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Sure. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:00, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

• has issued an 'emergency declaration'[2](though there are no confirmed cases)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

added[3] to

2020 coronavirus outbreak in the United States--Ozzie10aaaa (talk

) 23:52, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Not sure which of the articles the cancellation of international rugby match comes under, but a small example of the wide effect https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51641149. Edmund Patrick – confer 17:39, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

yes the media is indicating numerous interruptions to everyday life[4]--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 23:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Shouldn't this article be titled 2019–20 coronavirus disease outbreak ? Usually an outbreak is linked to the disease and not the virus/bacteria. Like we say "a plague outbreak" and not "a yersinia pestis outbreak". --François Calvaresi (talk) 17:43, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

It is. You must have come across a moment of vandalism that was reverted.50.111.9.62 (talk) 18:12, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

The article is currently titled "2019-20 coronavirus outbreak". There have been long discussions about whether it should be changed to something, possibly "2019-20 Covid-19 outbreak" or "2019–20 Coronavirus disease 2019 outbreak", but this hasn't happened yet. Partly, I think, because we all got exhausted with discussions about the title, and partly because the current wording, while inconsistent in the way you say, is closer to what people are saying (as per

WP:COMMONNAME). Bondegezou (talk

) 19:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

It is clear the way it is IMO. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:00, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

@

stable sourced name is Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) outbreak, but there a group Wikipedia individuals does not see that way. Regice2020 (talk

) 23:20, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Possibly because the media never calls it that. Everyone knows / identifies with "coronavirus" - that's the common name in the press. This constant beating of a dead horse is tiring - concentrate on article content instead.50.111.9.62 (talk) 01:13, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

As noted above, there has been a lot of angst over the name. I am fully for doing a new RM (to 2019-20 COVID-19 outbreak), but I am waiting both for COVID-19 to become more commonly used (and I am seeing and hearing more references to COVID-19 as time goes on), and also to get further downstream from the flurry of RMs that rubbed everyone raw. In the meantime, I have created a number of redirects to this page from possible future/alternate titles so that this page will be easier to find. That includes both your suggested title and mine. EMS | Talk 04:35, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

WHO uses "Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) outbreak"[5] COVID-19 is simple the abbreviation of coronavirus disease 2019. I think it is reasonable for us to start this with the year. So I think we are good were we are. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I've started Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Controversies related to the 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak. I'm proposing culling one of the spin-off articles that hasn't taken off. Comments for or against there please. Bondegezou (talk) 19:25, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

We have

Misinformation related to the 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak. So not sure we need this one. Doc James (talk · contribs · email

) 21:59, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2020

This 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The big table in the "Epidemiology" section is inconsistent. The "Deaths" column uses zeroes to indicate zero, but the "Recoveries" column uses hyphens to indicate zero. Please change the Recoveries from hyphens to zeroes. 2601:5C6:8080:100:C981:C9A4:25A4:1CE9 (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: read the footnote associated with the table please. It states that hyphens signify that there is no data available, not that the value is zero. Benica11 (talk) 00:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I overlooked it. Thank you for correcting me.

This 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please remove this sentence: "Good respiratory hygiene means covering your mouth and nose with a tissue or sleeve when coughing or sneezing. Used tissues should then be disposed of immediately. This is recommended to stop spread of the virus."

 Done Benica11 (talk) 01:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. Could you also remove this phrase?

Hand washing, maintaining distance from people who are coughing, and avoiding touching one's face is recommended to prevent the disease.[15] Anyone who is suspected of carrying the virus is advised to monitor their health for two weeks, wear a surgical mask, and seek medical advice by calling a doctor before visiting a clinic.[12][10]

This sounds like a "how to keep safe" press release, not part of an encyclopedia article. If something needs to be said, to reflect the statements of public health officials, it ought to be written as such. Maybe "Public health officials stressed the importance of basic hygienic practices in preventing infection and issued suggested behavioural guidelines for individuals suspected of having the virus."2601:5C6:8080:100:C062:3481:A38D:7E8A (talk) 02:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

 Done Added “Public health officials stressed the importance of basic hygienic practices in preventing infection and issued suggested behavioural guidelines for individuals suspected of having the virus.“ into the lead. OhKayeSierra (talk) 07:18, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

This 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Also, please change "manufactures" to "manufacturers" because the sentence is talking about manufacturing companies, not their products. 2601:5C6:8080:100:C981:C9A4:25A4:1CE9 (talk) 23:43, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

 Done Benica11 (talk) 01:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Please help me understand the meaning behind the numbers in the table along the right side of section

I believe the 'table' is self-explanatory, thanks--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 19:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Throughout the article the term "outbreak" is used and other times the term "epidemic" is used. We need to clarify between one or the other and change all occurrences to the correct one. I propose changing all occurrences of "epidemic" to "outbreak" since the CDC and WHO have it described as an outbreak. [6] [7] Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 04:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@Iamreallygoodatcheckers: As noted by Ems56fcva, the disease can be found on the WHO disease outbreaks page under "Pandemic, epidemic diseases", implying that the WHO considers it an epidemic if not a pandemic (which they haven't done so yet). --Tenryuu (🐲 • 💬 • 🌟) 06:42, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

We do not need to clarify between "outbreak" and "epidemic". These are not distinct things with their own definitions. They are overlapping, nearly synonyms. It is fine for the article to use both. Bondegezou (talk) 08:22, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Shade the Chinese mainland as the same colour as other infected countries. "Region of origin" is not relevant and does not improve the map chart. Other maps for disease outbreaks such as the 2009 H1N1 pandemic do not clearly mark the United States of America as the "region of origin". Clearly, we should standardise these maps to ensure that countries are not stigmatised.

JMonkey2006 (talk) 06:40, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@JMonkey2006: Feedback on the infobox map gif should go to c:File talk:COVID-19-outbreak-timeline.gif. OhKayeSierra (talk) 06:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

That's a typical "non-answer". --Maxl (talk) 09:27, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Their are currently more than 20 pages whose title includes the word "coronavirus". A disambiguation page would be useful. Robertpedley (talk) 08:18, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

yes agree--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 19:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

The number of new cases in China is decreasing daily, while new cases on the rest of the world are increasing. Material relating specifically to China, such as domestic responses, censorship etc. should be moved to the page

I agree that a lot of China material on this page should be moved to

Mainland China during the 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak or is already covered there and can just be deleted here. Bondegezou (talk

) 08:21, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2020

This 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

date for the animated map in the infobox, is different than the one in the file, change feb 25 to 26 Airtwit (talk) 08:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

 Done Peter Wu (2019) 10:05, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

There is a big difference between the figures given in the list of countries and the one from the graph just below the list. It differs by almost 4.000. How can that be? Shouldn't the figures be the same? --Maxl (talk) 09:23, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

will take a look--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 01:28, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

• DGS so it should be in the colour blue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.50.168.130 (talk) 09:28, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

thank you for bring this to our attention--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 19:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I note a lot of my summarisations of the first half of the article have achieved effective consensus. Don't be reckless, but I fully support most of "Public Health Responses" being summarised and spun out. --Almaty (talk) 12:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I agree. Bondegezou (talk) 13:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

WP:JUSTDOIT @Bondegezou: or anyone then! I don't have time to take it on esp as I haven't really analysed the responses other than giving china an unprecedented A+. --Almaty (talk

) 13:30, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I'll do it this time tomorrow if no one else wants to take it on. Truly unanticipated territory.

WP:MEDMOS and hopefully a future WP:outbreak are necessary--Almaty (talk

) 13:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

There are too many (large) images in the "Epidemiology" section, in my opinion. Perhaps one or two could be moved, perhaps up to the lead? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:15, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Agree those graphs could be spun out or removed for now. I propose a Cumulative Case Fatality rate graph or

WP:MEDRS --Almaty (talk

) 19:14, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

• The Guardian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8A0:F446:F601:9581:B406:77BB:4DD8 (talk) 15:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

An outbreak includes an epidemic. We use the term epidemic 47 times in the article. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:11, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@

An ongoing pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, started in December 2019.
As far as I understand, the first sentence should be a definition of the term.--Adûnâi (talk) 16:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

 Done Updated summary to define the article topic Mkwia (talk) 17:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I think given the current quick spread of the virus in south Korea and Iran the chart as it stands now constitute undue influence, what do you think? SYSS Mouse (talk) 16:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

how do you define "undue influence"?--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 01:19, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

COVID-19 /// Wuhan 2019-20 coronavirus approximation based on W.H.O. data. http://idea5.narod.ru/COVID-19 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.91.175.209 (talk) 09:39, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

This does not appear to qualify as a reliable source: see

WP:MEDRS. Bondegezou (talk

) 15:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2020

This 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Greek cases are now confirmed to be 4.

Sources:

https://www.cnn.gr/news/ellada/story/209285/koronaios-stin-ellada-kai-tetarto-kroysma-toy-ioy-to-deytero-stin-athina https://www.in.gr/2020/02/28/greece/koronaios-deytero-krousma-stin-athina-tetarto-stin-ellada/ https://www.tanea.gr/2020/02/28/greece/koronoios-deytero-krousma-stin-athina-tetarto-stin-ellada/ Akoursoumis (talk) 08:42, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

This is already in the article. RudolfRed (talk) 20:46, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

I saw the "Deaths" section got trimmed recently. I agree with this decision, but can we provide a {{See also}} or {{Main}} to another article that gives more detailed accounts? --Tenryuu (🐲 • 💬 • 🌟) 19:34, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

This 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

At 27 February 2020, the mortality rate was 3,4%. BenLux1982 (talk) 17:51, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

What is the source for this? Mkwia (talk) 18:24, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Tenryuu (🐲 • 💬 • 🌟) 19:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

More precisely, I believe he means the case fatality rate (mortality has a different epidemiological definition). We could put that statement in the lead, under Epidemiology, or Deaths. I suspect the source is amorphous, like Worldometer (divide deaths by confirmed cases). However, I don't think we can do this willy-nilly. It's a matter of 'who says?'. We can't say it, an authoritative source must say it and Worldometer isn't it. I've added a figure from the largest study to date (72,000 cases) to the Deaths section. Sbalfour (talk) 22:01, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• TUDelftCorona 02.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:52, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

commented--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 01:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Now that we have many articles for each country/region, we've got inconsistent chart placement. (See also the discussion below)

For example, some charts are separated into templates:

• Template:2019–20 coronavirus outbreak data/China medical cases chart
• Template:2019–20 coronavirus outbreak data/Italy medical cases chart

Some are combined with the cases table:

• Template:2019–20 coronavirus outbreak data/Iran medical cases

Some are included in the article:

• 2020 coronavirus outbreak in South Korea

Some don't have chart at all. Notably:

• 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Japan

Should we consider unifying the approach we use for charts? --Efly (talk) 21:23, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

There is definitely a need to have some sort of consistency. I am partial to the image chart approach as in

Template:2019–20 coronavirus outbreak data/China medical cases chart are already getting too tall to be useful at a glance. Mkwia (talk

) 21:31, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

For the too tall problem I guess we can just collapse it by default in the future? I think it still has its value comparing to the case table (e.g.,

2020 coronavirus outbreak in Iran also uses Template:Graph:Chart. --Efly (talk

) 22:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I think that the China one is very useful because it gives a sense of scale, and shows us the fact that it is now leveling off. Titanium Dragon (talk) 02:24, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

The infection number for China in the table has stayed the exact same for at least the last three days. Seems like it should've increased some. Is there an issue with the sources? 173.29.110.183 (talk) 05:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

At least 13:00 UTC today?

My mistake. This section can be deleted. Didn't realize that the numbers in the table are the same even when you search historical versions of this page. 173.29.110.183 (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Currently, we have insistent ways of visualizing cases in articles for different country region. (See also the discussion above)

For example, we have vertical cases charts:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak_data/China_medical_cases_chart
• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak_data/Italy_medical_cases_chart&oldid=942944475

We also have timeline charts:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak_data/Iran_medical_cases&oldid=942928206
• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_Italy&oldid=942950942#Timeline

We also have cases table:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak_data/Japan_medical_cases&oldid=942846564
• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak_data/Iran_medical_cases&oldid=942928206

Do we want to keep/add all three in every article, and do we want to make it consistent across different articles? --Efly (talk) 22:14, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Is this (not sensationalist) visualisation from youtube of the comparison between corona virus/sars/swine flu/ebola/spanish flu something suitable for the article ? EdwardLane (talk) 10:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

This 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

remove Northern Ireland from the list - part of the UK 144.82.9.237 (talk) 23:58, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

It is a region. So I think it is fine. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:34, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi, in this case Wales should be added, which partly undermines the listing of "United Kingdom" seeing as it compromises England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The UK involves all four parts, whereas if you wished to list Northern Ireland seperately you would put Great Britain & Northern Ireland. --144.82.9.237 (talk) 13:19, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Maintenance close Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 08:48, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

• source ~Nick~{talk} 00:01, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

• Daily Mail is generally considered to not be a reliable source, so I'd advise against including it in the article, if the consensus is indeed that this should warrant inclusion. While I was able to find a better source, I think it might be a little too soon to warrant inclusion, though. Especially since there doesn't seem to be a consensus in the scientific community about whether animals can be infected with the coronavirus or not. OhKayeSierra (talk
  ) 01:03, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Does this count as reliable source.

~Nick~{talk} 01:45, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

We have seen other coronaviruses infect both humans and dogs: Canine_coronavirus#Canine_respiratory_coronavirus. Bondegezou (talk) 08:31, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Both articles (7news and bloomberg) say "weak positive" and also with the use of quotes. So it's a little premature to be opening the door to implying interspecies transmission from humans Gegu0284 (talk) 12:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

I read from the local news that says the pet can be contaminated with the virus, which differs with infection. The distinction is that the furs of the dog can be contaminated with the virus, but this does not imply infection. SYSS Mouse (talk) 16:14, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

The Coronavirus cases frozened at 83,379 cases and 2,858 until 28 February 2020 at 13:00 UTC at least.

Added least 621 cases updated firstly and updates of Iran, Italy, Japan and South Korea at least will be over 84,000 cases.

Added over 700 cases added between 28 February 2020 at 13:00 UTC and 28 February 2020 at 16:00 UTC.

This is not a problem for us.

Wikipedia is not a news ticker HiLo48 (talk

) 05:38, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

• This is why I changed the statistics to be broadened to the nearest 100 or 1000 and added a + sign for each to suggest "greater than". The data is too frequently updated. It can be updated whenever (if) confirmed cases reach the next 100/1000 or so. Tytrox (talk) 10:45, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

This is also a perfectly fine source https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/ Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:57, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Can we add a column for reinfected cases? There obvious evidence of reinfections roaming around the news world. Regice2020 (talk) 09:02, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

User:Regice2020 a column were? We are not sure whether this is a reinfection or a reactivation. And we have 1. Not enough for its own column. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:58, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

I've seen there's a few "As of" statements being made. Sure, realtime info is helpful, but due to different sources using different timezones, usually time of the publication and/or information update (usually based on the reporting media's local time or that of where the event occurred), said timezone should be noted when making the accompanying "As of" statement. I feel it needs to be made clear, because it can cause confusion on whether it's present or past tense for the reader, and otherwise just to help get uniformity throughout the article itself. Thoughts? Tytrox (talk) 03:36, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Fully agree, I think that all of the "as of" statements should be put into UTC time, as is the standard use in Wikipedia. This gives a more up-to date picture and makes people less confused.

talk

) 13:05, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

I heavily Agree and , I second the Motion (emotion)! .. You should tag those as { curly dubious curly } and in your editing comment say specific time should be mentioned! -From Peter, a.k.a. Vid2vid (talk), updated 🖋 on 18:04, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Victor Grigas (talk) 19:10, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Please participate in the

commented--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 23:37, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

The visual editor is receiving a "This reference is defined in a template or other generated block, and for now can only be edited in source mode" notice box when visual editor should normally be opening up the source for editing or copying. Anyone else getting this right now? Or is it just a client-side issue? Sleath56 (talk) 06:03, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

it happens--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 23:40, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Lithuanian Ministry of Health has confirmed that a woman in her late 30s has coronavirus. It says she was traveling from North Italy to Kaunas. https://www.lrt.lt/naujienos/lietuvoje/2/1146512/lietuvoje-patvirtintas-pirmas-koronaviruso-atvejis-teigiamas-39-metu-moters-meginys — Preceding unsigned comment added by TalkingLape (talk • contribs) 01:56, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

thanks for link--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 00:14, 29 February 2020 (UTC)