Talk:Declaration of the Rights of Woman and of the Female Citizen

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 15, 2021.

The claim that Wollstonecraft was influenced by de Gouges is unfounded. There is no evidence that she knew the work, and I don't know where the author got this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.200.135 (talk) 15:44, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ShyamCMU.

Above undated message substituted from

Hi, all. A number of sources including https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/BA18920827.2.43 document many more than three women beheaded during the Reign of Terror. Looking for the sourcing or justification for the original statement.

Thanks. Meridianti (talk) 13:43, 5 October 2018 (UTC) Meridianti[reply]

Has it been addressed? Zezen (talk) 12:06, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Is the title correct or did the original leave out 'of'? I changed the first mention to fit the title but the graphics differ. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:02, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Depends on whether you are translating word for word, or translating the spirit as understood by the French. The spirit is fewer words: "Declaration of the Rights of Woman and the Female Citizen". Binksternet (talk) 14:08, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Word for word seems the encyclopedic way to go, although the spirit of the French is a fine spirit. My French isn't very good (although I enjoy listening to the spoken language), does the original read 'of the' as a balance to the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen? If so then the present title is correct, if not it should probably be changed. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:22, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since the woman version is a response to the man version, let's keep it as it stands. Binksternet (talk) 16:19, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Randy Kryn- I noticed your undo of my edits italicizing this article's topic and title. While I think I see where you are coming from, I don't think this article's topic should be treated as a work such as the Declaration of Independence. I think most people would view it as more akin to an essay or treatise. It is a work written by an individual, not a group or committee, as a critique of the declaration generated by the Revolution. Can you point to any guidance that would indicate otherwise? Note that fr.wp italicizes the work's title, but not the declaration's. Eric ^talk 16:59, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. The Declaration is a counter document to the correctly unitalicized Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (1789) and, as it can be considered an essay, short essays aren't italicized either. Since it is a counter-document the style of the original document should be followed, which doesn't contain italics nor set off by quote marks. Maybe someone from French Wikipedia can lend a comment here, as it is an odd mix there of not italicized the title but italicizing the first mention (I didn't check its links). Randy Kryn (talk) 17:09, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is this "counter-document" notion addressed somewhere in our manual of style? I have not run across that concept before. Eric ^talk 19:18, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a trained wikilawyer, so who knows (maybe SMcCandish if he doesn't mind). It's a Declaration, not a novel or a film or a play. Declarations on Wikipedia seem mostly non-italicized. And as I mention above, essays are not italicized on Wikipedia, so if consensus wants to call this an essay rather than a named declaration by a committee of one, at most it would be enclosed in quote marks, which seem undue and cluttering. Randy Kryn (talk) 21:09, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, well, there are declarations and there are Declarations. When I looked over

MOS:TITLE and what it lists for examples of major and minor works (italics vs quotation marks), I felt (yes, subjectively) that it seemed to fit a little better in the former, even though essays are listed in the latter -- and I agree with you re the quotation marks. It's not that important to me, but I still wouldn't classify it as a "big D" declaration, despite its title. Eric ^talk 22:15, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

Looked at the page history through the years, and clicking on about 30 time periods it seems that the title was created without italics and has remained that way. It has become one of the prominently known declarations of rights, at least in the history of the rights of women, and influenced other declarations and their writers. It's interesting to learn more about the topic during an edit run and looking at it closer because of this discussion, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:31, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]