Talk:Ecosystem service

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Section sizes Section size for Ecosystem service (28 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 2,304 2,304 Definition 2,707 2,707 Categories 2,094 24,462 Provisioning services 1,064 6,858 Forest products 3,681 3,681 Marine products and raw materials 1,207 1,207 Biochemical and genetic resources from marine organisms 906 906 Regulating services 1,296 6,251 Water purification 1,338 1,338 Pollination 1,274 1,274 Buffer zones 2,343 2,343 Supporting services 840 3,790 Nutrient cycling 1,082 1,082 Primary production 1,868 1,868 Cultural services 4,276 5,469 Recreation and tourism 1,193 1,193 Estuarine and coastal ecosystem services 1,756 1,756 Economics 10,201 12,505 Payments 59 59 Examples for economic cost comparisons 2,245 2,245 Management and policy 10,634 15,553 Ecosystem-based adaptation (EbA) 94 94 Land use change decisions 4,825 4,825 History 3,649 3,649 See also 403 403 References 34 827 Sources 793 793 External links 1,026 1,026 Total 65,192 65,192

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I say nay as well.

ecosystem services when I was checking around before starting the new page. wagors 04:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply

]

Weigh in nay. not only are these distinct and of different origin, they are both vast topics and deserve separate articles. Anlace 05:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No! Since ‘ecosystem services’ is becoming a more and more utilized phrase with a technical and precise meaning — Especially since the Millennium Ecosystem Assessment — it is better to leave it alone. Many ecological economist use it to contrast their field with environmental or resource economics. Compared to ecosystem services, ‘natures services’ sounds much more journalistic, loose and all inclusive. Ecosystem services also places emphasis on the biotic and ecological elements of ‘nature’. So lets leave it as a distinct phrase. Manoj

I have to say I find this human centric view of the definition "ecosystem services" quite strange. It seems that the Millennium Ecosystem Assessment hijacked the term for a very narrow description. Before the assessment the U.S. government actually defined this concept through the promulgation of regulations for the Oil Pollution Act. From the OPA regulations CFR 15 Part 990: Services Natural resource services are all functions that a natural resource provides for another natural resource(s) or for the public. Natural resource services may be classified as follows: (i) Ecological services-the physical, chemical, or biological functions that one natural resource provides for another. Examples include provision of food, protection from predation, and nesting habitat, among others; and (ii) Public services-the public uses of natural resources or functions of natural resources that provide value to the public. Examples include fishing, hunting, nature photography, and education, among others 208.252.206.34 (talk) 18:51, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll drop the tags, given discussion. Cheers. Heds (talk) 23:34, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I say "no" too these are clearly different concepts, an anthropocentric one, and an eco-centric one. Rich Farmbrough, 15:51, 5 September 2009 (UTC).[reply]

I say no. Ecological Goods and Services are increasingly being discussed as the goods and services provided by land uses such as agriculture and other working lands, rather than services provided by forest or wetland ecosystems. Greeneracres (talk) 02:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The first sentence under "A brief history" seems to indicate that at the start of our species' existence, we were all Serbians. I expect this needs to be edited, but I am not sure how to do so. If anyone can help out with this, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Bolo5000 (talk) 22:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have briefly read through this article and I feel that some information can perhaps be added to what each type of ecosystem service means. Currently the article only states some examples. KnowledgeRequire (talk) 02:35, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Of Natural capital Valuation/Environmental finance interest? Ecosystem Services: How People Benefit from Nature by Rebecca L. Goldman, currently in print.

Some excerpts: "... Economists refer to this full valuation as

Ecological Economics 65 (2008): 663–674; Jack et al., note 35; G. C. Daily and P. Matson, “Ecosystem Services: From Theory to Implementation,” Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 105 (2008): 9455–9456. [37.] K. A. Brauman, G. C. Daily, T. K. Duarte, and H. A. Mooney, “The Nature and Value of Ecosystem Services: An Overview Highlighting Hydrologic Services,” Annual Review of Environment and Resources 32 (2007): 67–98; K. M. Krchnak, Watershed Valuation as a Tool for Biodiversity Conservation (Arlington, VA: The Nature Conservancy, 2007); Asquith and Wunder, note 36; I. Porras, M. Greig-Gran, and N. Neves, “All that Glitters: A Review of Payments for Watershed Services in Developing Countries,” Natural Resource Issues No. 11 (London: International Institute for Environment and Development, 2008). [39.] For more information on water funds, see R. L. Goldman, S. Benitez, A. Calvache, and A. Ramos, Water Funds: Protecting Watersheds for Nature and People (Arlington, VA: The Nature Conservancy, 2010). [40.] G. Daily and K. Ellison, The New Economy of Nature: The Quest to make Conservation

Profitable (Washington, DC: Island Press, 2002).

99.88.230.136 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And what is this in aid of? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:58, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This might be more plain User:A.R.The new green economy by Hillary Rosner 10.September.2010 Wired UK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.102.183.67 (talk) 20:05, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Add {{

Why? I can see, potentially, Environment or Ecology, but I'd be willing to allow above. The other two topics are, to the extent appropriate, contained in Environment or Ecology. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The multiheaded anon is still adding the material, without giving reasons. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Necessary to change [[Human|our species]] to [[homo sapiens|our species]] ... the same place? 99.181.129.120 (talk) 06:48, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It may not be necessary, but "human" is not a species; "homo sapiens" is a species. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 07:03, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Concept and Reality of Ecosystem Services by Neville Ash, IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature) InterAcademy Panel Biodiversity Conference (

Neville Ash is associated with the

"To help inform decision-makers, many ecosystem services are being assigned economic values, often based on the cost of replacement with anthropogenic alternatives. The ongoing challenge of prescribing economic value to nature, for example through biodiversity banking, is prompting transdisciplinary shifts in how we recognize and manage the environment, social responsibility, business opportunities, and our future as a species."

Dear friends, the above two sentences address ecosystem services only in passing. Any environmental good is - "to help decisionmakers" - being assigned economic values. So there is really no need to highlight this here. Furthermore, it would have to be shown that replacement costs play a particularly important role with respect to the valuation of ESS. From an economic theory point of view they certainly don't.

The second sentence focuses on a specific aspect of the debate on economic valuation itself, and has no specific bearing for ESS whatsoever. So it is a good idea to delete both sentences as they add nothing that needs to be addressed in the intro ecosystem services as both are peripherial aspects at best. Best regards, --Trinitrix (talk) 12:49, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am perplexed by what is going on here and I do not know where you are coming from. What is "Any environmental good is - 'to help decisionmakers' - being assigned economic values" supposed to mean? The assignment of economic consequences to ecosystem degradation would seem to me to be central to a rational management of ecosystems and their associated services. Nothing peripheral about it at all. I have restored the lead as it was before your latest edit.

I think also that your heavy-handed deletion of material to do with current anthropogenic threats to ecosystems and their associated services is also inappropriate. The material might be better positioned in the article, and it could be reworded and better cited. But some mention of the cloud that currently hangs over ecosystem services and ecosystems in general belongs in the article. I won't speculate, but please explain where you are really coming from. Unless you can offer some sort of acceptable rationale here for deleting all mention of the current status of world ecosystems, I will shortly reinstate the material you removed in an edited form. --Epipelagic (talk) 22:37, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Epi, this is an article on ecosystem services, not on the general ecological state of the world. I would not object to a few numbers of the state of ecosystem degradation if (and only if) expressed in ecosystem service terms and preferentiably referenced to one of the major international scientific endeavors that seek to quantify these degradations. Such material was not deleted by me and not reinstated by your, should I say "light-handed"? - revert. The same holds true for the delete later on.

May I now ask you to provide a specific rationale for highlighting the replacement cost method in the intro? Also, habitat/biodiveristy banking is one of several economic instruments to reduce ecological scarcity in general. Again, there is nothing specific them with in respect to the ecosystem service debate as they apply generally to instances to ecosystem degradation.

"The ongoing challenge of prescribing economic value to nature, for example through biodiversity banking, is prompting transdisciplinary shifts in how we recognize and manage the environment, social responsibility, business opportunities, and our future as a species" ... excuse me, this is really not material for the intro. "The challenge is promting transdisciplinary shifts in how ***we***..." At least I am not sure that I am experiencing the same shifts as you are ;-) This sentence violates about any second style and content rule of the project with respect to scientifc writing. We should really get rid of it in the intro. Source it respectively and look for a place where it may belong in an appropriate way.

Best regards, --Trinitrix (talk) 00:51, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

PS: This does not make my points any better, but I was an invited reviewer of the MA framework volume. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trinitrix (talk • contribs) 00:56, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we should note how much air, food, water, ... is required per person per day ? For air, we need about 7 to 8 trees per person. Calculation follows:

• a human breathes in about 9500 kilos of air per year; 23% of this is O², and we only take out 1/3 with every breath, so there is a consumption of 700 kilos of O² per year. A mature tree produces 100 kilo per year, so we need 7 to 8 of these per person.

With this calculation, we can also calculate how much forest we need worldwide btw: 7 trees X 7,2 billion people = 50,2 billion trees needed I'm not sure how much trees there are currently today, and by which rate they are chopped, else we could calculate by which time we will no longer be able to attain sufficient air.

The structure of the artcle needs improvement. E.g. Hiding definitions in teh middle of teh article under the erroneously termed section "notes" is a non-no.--Wuerzele (talk) 16:24, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The ecosystem services concept is explicitly anthropocentric, isn't it? It's about things provided to humans by natural systems. Guettarda (talk) 13:20, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are a number of criticisms levelled at the ecosystem services approach that aren't address in this entry currently. Examples include the challenge of valuing cultural services, and the difficulty in accounting for intrinsic or non-use value, as well as general criticisms of the anthropocentricity of the approach, including that taking an economic approach to value deprioritises remote and vulnerable ecosystems that humans don't interact with frequently. Does anyone else think a new section on criticism is needed for balance, if nothing else?

I absolutely agree. I did add a similar section to

Natural Capital in order to add some balance. Whilst I work professionally in an area that regards the identification of the benefits of NC and ecosystem services as crucial in influencing decision-makers in planning to have much greater regard for the impact of their decisions on us and our environment, as a Wikipedian I am keen to see balanced articles, so adding a section to address published criticisms of the ecosystems services approach would be very welcome. User:Nick Moyes (talk) 10:25, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply

]

Yes! Very much so. This article is completely uncritical towards a very disputed theory - if you can even call it a theory. It is more like an idea or hypothesis, now being implemented and invested in, further entrenching the highly problematic notion that nature does not have intrinsic value, and that a monetary value can actually be estimated for species and ecosystems. 78.55.85.11 (talk) 19:43, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to change the intro to reflect the fact that organisms may provide services to other species besides humanity, and to the ecosystem as a whole?

We can definitely quantify the economic value of these non-human interactions, too, and such models may be useful!

This is an interesting suggestion, but I believe it would be a very big mistake, and indeed a misinterpretation of the topic, to attempt to modify the introduction as you suggest. The whole point of the Ecosystems Services approach is that it is intentionally 100% anthopocentric. It is an approach aimed at humans that is purposefully highlighting the services that the natural world gives us (humans) for free (and we have been rather prone to take it for granted in recent decades). You are, of course, right that the other 8.7 million species on this planet provide benefits and 'services' to all the other species(food/nesting sites/nest building materials/decomposition/food chains etc), but discussion of that should be reserved for the numerous other topics relating to ecology, and wouldn't be relevant to this article at all. If you can find reliable sources referring to this, it could make an interesting sub-section, but I am not personally aware of any Ecosystem Services publications which even mention this. And so I'm afraid I'm really not at all sure what you're getting at when you refer to us being able to "quantify the economic value of these non-human interactions". Economics is a human construct (is that the right term?), and the whole point of Ecosystem Services is that it is a concept that tries to identify (and sometimes even attempts to value) the services and economic benefits that all these non-human interactions (ie ecosystems) gives us. And by 'us', I mean us humans, and only us humans.

talk) 20:58, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply

]

Following up on my previous response, I find there are actually a number of useful reviews of criticism, counter-arguments and pitfalls of Ecosystem Services which someone might wish to use in order to create a balanced 'criticisms' sub-section which could then be validly referred to in the Introduction. See here and here and here(p.7).

talk) 08:53, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply

]

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110514083601/http://www.odi.org.uk/resources/details.asp?id=5049&title=costa-rica-sustainable-resource-management-successfully-tackling-tropical-deforestation to http://www.odi.org.uk/resources/details.asp?id=5049&title=costa-rica-sustainable-resource-management-successfully-tackling-tropical-deforestation

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After reading this article, a question came to mind:

The article mentioned shows that there breathing produces following reaction: - 5% O2 --> + 3,96% CO2

As I understand it, C is thus bound with the O2, the human body also loses some C (carbon) -> how much ? also some oxygen (about 1,04%; 5-3,96) is added to the human body (and removed from the ambient air)

So bottom line is that the ambient air does lose O (oxygen). In time, this could make a significant change, if it's not replenished by plants (which produce oxygen). The thing here is that the amount of plants we have has dropped hugely in the last 100 years.^[1] Also, the type of vegetation changed hugely (many forests have given way to grasses, ... and this are said to generate less O2, see here. The page Geological_history_of_oxygen states that oxygen amounts have changed little over time, but it doesn't zoom in on the last 100 years. My guess here is that oxygen levels have dropped in these last 100 years, and since we're affected even by a drop of 2% (see here) that could have real-life consequences to us.

Can someone look into this and alter the appropriate pages if needed ?

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on

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I propose that

I have trouble with the merger template to show up on the front page {{Merge from Biodiversity#Ecosystem_services||discuss=Talk:Biodiversity#Merge discussion |date=November 2017 |section=yes}}--Wuerzele (talk) 14:52, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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According to the Millennium Assessment report found on http://www.millenniumassessment.org/en/Framework.html#download chapter 2, pollination is not a supporting service, but a regulating service. Should I change the article? Mehinger (talk) 15:03, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pollination is considered a "regulating ecosystem service" in chapter 2: Ecosystem services are the benefits people obtain from ecosystems. These include provisioning, regulating, and cultural services that directly affect people and supporting services needed to maintain the other services. Prof. James Bullock from the Centre for Ecology and Hydrology (UK) recently tweeted a challenge to the established view that pollination is an ecosystem service. See this February 25, 2019 blog post. None of this warrants changing the article. -- Paleorthid (talk) 18:10, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The lede sentence says:
"Ecosystem services are the many and varied benefits to humans gifted by the natural environment and from healthy ecosystems."
Since we are excluding benefits to wildlife and such, we should explicitly say we are not talking about ecology, but about human economics. That is; "ecosystem services" is economics jargon, not ecological. If otherwise, that should be made explicit. That's because while the jargon may be precise, those terms typically carry luggage for most lay readers.

Does "gifted" imply silviculture and other ag is excluded, or is that dependent on the (say,) logger's needs, culture, and definition of "healthy" ecosystem? (But that's not for the lede section, is it?)

We have a sticky knot here, on one hand the term natural means non-human, but the benefits are exclusively human by this definition. Trying to imagine that, I see a natural forest or marsh draining clean water into a city or thru farmland, and the river exiting still healthy. That seems rare, here in dry California, it's laughable (Rivers unnaturally only intermittently reach the sea in flood years,(and only in canals and channels), forget: ecologically healthful.).

Bringing human economics, a social science, and ecology, a natural science together into a unified theory is long overdue, but what I have described is unsound. For example, it is unscientific (and logically knotty) to speak of benefits to humans but to exclude benefits to (say) wildlife. It is a social construct, not a scientific one.

I presume by "gifted," absence of plunder, violence and theft is implied, —all words directed toward humans, —but when done to non-humans our English language and culture is a gaping hole. That's what sentences are for solving. The concept of market externality comes to mind, but economists are not likely to cooperate having their jargon bent to fit other applications like non-humans and say, Intrinsic value (ethics). Compare that to https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp and you may laugh, or cry.
--2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:1D41:CC1A:4331:110C (talk) 02:02, 9 March 2020 (UTC) Just Saying[reply]

Update: the word "gifted" is no longer mentioned in the article now. EMsmile (talk) 11:03, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The section on "Estuarine and coastal ecosystem services" has a tag "This section may be too long to read and navigate comfortably." I am trying to improve this section. As a starting point, I find it a bit problematic that the four section headings repeat again the same section headings that are under categories just a bit above, namely these: 2.1 Regulating services, 2.2 Provisioning services, 2.3 Cultural services, 2.4 Supporting service. We are meant to have unique section headings per article. How can we improve on that? Does anyone have any good ideas? EMsmile (talk) 03:36, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My only idea so far is to change them to "Regulating services of estuarine and coastal ecosystems", "Provisioning services of estuarine and coastal ecosystems" and so forth. But that would result in rather long section headings. Not ideal. EMsmile (talk) 03:37, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've now resolved this problem by moving the coastal examples back into the section where the different categories are listed and explained. I think it works better like this. EMsmile (talk) 11:00, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a lot of criticism of ecosystem services as a concept, and this is not represented in this article, thus making it biased. Please see,for example, https://manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526162632/ 78.55.85.11 (talk) 19:36, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it would be good to add content along these lines. It would be better if we used more accessible sources though. EMsmile (talk) 11:02, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the "further reading" list, as I don't think it was adding value:

• Farber, Stephen; Costanza, Robert; Childers, Daniel L.; Erickson, Jon; Gross, Katherine; Grove, Morgan; Hopkinson, Charles S.; Kahn, James; Pincetl, Stephanie; Troy, Austin; Warren, Paige; Wilson, Matthew (2006). "Linking Ecology and Economics for Ecosystem Management". BioScience. 56 (2): 121.
  S2CID 38045090
  .
• Kistenkas, Frederik H.; Bouwma, Irene M. (February 2018). "Barriers for the ecosystem services concept in European water and nature conservation law". Ecosystem Services. 29: 223–227.
  doi:10.1016/j.ecoser.2017.02.013
  .
• Salles, Jean-Michel (May 2011). "Valuing biodiversity and ecosystem services: Why put economic values on Nature?". Comptes Rendus Biologies. 334 (5–6): 469–482.
  PMID 21640956
  .
• Vo, Quoc Tuan; Kuenzer, C.; Vo, Quang Minh; Moder, F.; Oppelt, N. (December 2012). "Review of valuation methods for mangrove ecosystem services". Ecological Indicators. 23: 431–446.
  doi:10.1016/j.ecolind.2012.04.022
  .

EMsmile (talk) 10:16, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article mentions "climate regulation" a few times but without being specific about it. There is no Wikipedia article on climate regulation so I think the term or concept doesn't really exist under that name. I find it mentioned in the forest canopy article here: Canopy_(biology)#Climate_regulation. There is also the term "climate services", could we mention and integrate some content about it in this article? Pinging User:Richarit who may have expertise in this area. EMsmile (talk) 11:06, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the section on ecology as I felt it didn't really fit. It was using primary sources and was written more like an opinion or academic essay. If there is something worth saving, please indicate and we can put that part back in:

+++++++

Ecology:

Understanding of ecosystem services requires a strong foundation in

The complexity of Earth's ecosystems poses a challenge for scientists as they try to understand how relationships are interwoven among organisms, processes and their surroundings. As it relates to human ecology, a suggested research agenda[1] for the study of ecosystem services includes the following steps:

1. identification of ecosystem service providers (ESPs)—species or populations that provide specific ecosystem services—and characterization of their functional roles and relationships;
2. determination of community structure aspects that influence how ESPs function in their natural landscape, such as compensatory responses that stabilize function and non-random extinction sequences which can erode it;
3. assessment of key environmental (abiotic) factors influencing the provision of services;
4. measurement of the spatial and temporal scales ESPs and their services operate on.

Recently, a technique has been developed to improve and standardize the evaluation of ESP functionality by quantifying the relative importance of different species in terms of their efficiency and abundance.

Many ecologists also believe that the provision of ecosystem services can be stabilized with biodiversity. Increasing biodiversity also benefits the variety of ecosystem services available to society. Understanding the relationship between biodiversity and an ecosystem's stability is essential to the management of natural resources and their services. The concept of ecological redundancy is sometimes referred to as functional compensation and assumes that more than one species performs a given role within an ecosystem.^[3] EMsmile (talk) 20:58, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]