Talk:History of German settlement in Central and Eastern Europe

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Text and/or other creative content from Gdańsk was copied or moved into History of German settlement in Central and Eastern Europe with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

"It is worth noting that the only detailed effort to count the casualties was made by ethnic Germans from Yugoslavia, who documented all their victims, resulting in a figure half the estimate of the Federal Statistics Bureau." Could this be footnoted? The Germans of the defunct Yugoslavia consisted of a number of groups that had little in common and eben after their "ethnic cleansing" did not cooperate much. There are separate Gottscheer, Danube Suebians, Unterkrainer, etc organizations. Because of this, I doubt it was Yugoslavia-wide. A footnote would be great.

The cultural diversity in those areas was enormous, as well as their different dialects. The loss of this century-old cultures would inflict great damage on Europe´s history and culture.--Wurzeln und Flügel (talk) 19:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning the "10.000 Poles massacred in Danzig"--even a webpage written from a Polish viewpoint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_takeover_of_Danzig notes that the massacred were likely mainly German burghers rooting for the Kashub nobility fighting for Waldemar of Prussia AGAINST the King of Poland.

It is really pity that this article presents only one side of the story - author e. g. does not mention slaughter of 10.000 Polish inhabitants of Danzig by the Teutonic Order in 1308 (condemned by pope) and many, many similar stories of genocides - true story was much more bitter. (Constantine Do you really want to back so far into history? Unfortunately this wasn´t the last slaughter and injustice towards people.--Wurzeln und Flügel (talk) 19:06, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From the article

The great bulk of ethnic Germans outside of the German-speaking countries have historically been concentrated in Central and Eastern Europe,

If you are going to start the article before 1000 A.D, then what about the

People with high cultures never assimilate anywhere. Why should they? They very often form the upper class in their respective countries. Look at ancient Greece or Rome. This makes them an object of envy and hate. The Germans lived there very often for about 800 years. The Jews did not assimilate too. They were very creative.This was one of the reasons why the Nazis persecuted them.--Wurzeln und Flügel (talk) 19:21, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As for the German emigrants to Africa, U.S., Australia and other parts of the world, the key distinction is that most of these (except for some German enclaves in South America) rapidly lost the use of the German language and other distinguishing features of German culture. In essence, unlike the ethnic Germans of Central and Eastern Europe, they assimilated into the culture to which they emigrated.

Besides, this is the "History of German settlement in Eastern Europe" article and not the

Ethnic Germans

article. These points should be discussed in that article.

--Richard 17:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should change the sentence, "The great bulk of ethnic Germans", because it is not true. --

Many German settlers in Central and Eastern Europe were called into the country by the rulers there to cultivate the land. The influence of ancient Rome was strongest in the West and the development there advanced.--Wurzeln und Flügel (talk) 19:03, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

--Richard 20:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also the English did not intergrate themselves into the celtic culture they found in Britain. --

Um, sorry for being dense but what's the point that you are trying to make? I figure you are responding to my comment about ethnic Germans not integrating with the surrounding culture in Eastern Europe but I think the difference is that the Anglo-Saxons dominated the Celts in Britain whereas the Germans did not dominate the local cultures in Eastern Europe quite so effectively. Thus, the Celts pretty much faded away in Britain or inter-married or whatever whereas the Germans and other peoples in Eastern Europe remained distinctly different cultures. And, so..., the point is - what?

--Richard 20:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The point I am trying to make is that to write that "The great bulk of ethnic Germans outside of the German-speaking countries have historically been concentrated in Central and Eastern Europe, " is not factually accurate. --

I got the sentence as a copy-paste from

Ethnic Germans. Accordingly, I have put a citation needed tag on the same text in that article. Hopefully, someone will come up with a citation or a convincing argument. I would suggest though that you conduct this discussion there as you will probably get a more informed explanation from the editors there than you will from me. --Richard 17:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

OK, I finally got your point. Sorry for being dense but you didn't make a clear case using numbers so I had to go find them myself in the

Ethnic Germans article. See the discussion on that Talk Page. --Richard 17:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

           Waves of migration

Johann 15 million Germans were expelled after World War 2 , mainly from Poland and the Czechoslovakian Republic, many of them children and old people. The expulsion of people was an unprecedented fact in history in the 20th century. In times before the rulers changed, but the people were allowed to stay in their home countries. The basis of this expulsion was the notion of a collective guilt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wurzeln und Flügel (talk • contribs) 18:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is really pity that this article presents only one side of the story - author e. g. does not mention slaughter of 10.000 Polish inhabitants of Danzig by the Teutonic Order in 1308 (condemned by pope) and many, many similar stories of genocides - true story was much more bitter. (Constantine) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.7.247.146 (talk • contribs)

NPOV

stance and provide sources for your assertions.

Also, please add new messages to the bottom of Talk Pages, not to the top.

--Richard 22:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article is over twice the size that is recommended for a Wikipedia article. I think it needs to become an overview article with more summary sections with less details and links to main articles that contain the more detailed information. --

Agreed. The parts that need the most trimming are the ones on the

So fix it! --Richard 00:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

The text misinformed, the minority has had special rights since 1990. Xx236 14:28, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see where it says something different. When was the "German-Polish" treaty? --Richard 14:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I rewrote the paragraph yesterday. Xx236 06:11, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See

And of course Szczecin is in Eastern Europe as Poland is in Eastern Europe according to that definition. --Molobo (talk) 16:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please point out the Wikipedia policy covering this, I can not find it e.g. at

WP:NCGN. You may want to update the article "Poland ... is a country in Central Europe on the boundary between Eastern and Western European continental masses, and is considered by the United Nations a part of Eastern Europe." It's a little odd that according to UN, there is no Central Europe at all. How about the Central European Time zone, shouldn't countries adhereing to it be considered Central European by their own will? And there is the Western European Union, too, with Associate member countries. -- Matthead  DisOuß   16:56, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply

]

Mentions of Arabic migration into Europe have nothing to do with the article. I am removing them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.230.128.34 (talk) 17:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

==Rename - proposal==

What about renaming the article into "(Historical) German settlement (areas) in/of Europe" Skäpperöd (talk) 09:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC) Skäpperöd (talk) 14:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since I created this article, let me share with you why I named it the way I did. By "Eastern Europe", I meant everything east of Germany including Poland. Being a child of the Cold War, my concept of "Eastern Europe" started with East Germany and extended east to include all of the Warsaw Pact countries occupied by the Soviet Union.

Now, I accept that this is an outdated definition of Eastern Europe and that there is an emerging definition of Central Europe which includes Poland and thus makes the title of this article a bit imprecise. I am amenable to proposals to change it but I think calling it History of German settlement in Central and Eastern Europe would suggest an expanded scope describing how the Germans got to live in Germany itself. That wasn't my original intent. My original motivation was to have an article that explained how there got to be so many Germans living east of Bismarck's Germany and thus provided the historical context to German expansionism in World War II and the subsequent expulsion of ethnic Germans from Poland and other Eastern European countries. If you can propose an article title that conveys this meaning without getting caught up in the definiton of Central and Eastern Europe, I would be glad to hear it.

--Richard (talk) 02:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Pit Pietersen, Kriegsverbrechen der alliierten Siegermächte: Terroristische Bombenangriffe auf Deutschland und Europa 1939-1945, 2006, p.572

Who is Pit Pietersen ? What are his credentials ? The title of the books indicates a terrible POV.--Molobo (talk) 18:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A series of German POV statements.Xx236 (talk) 12:06, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kriegsverbrechen der alliierten Siegermächte is abook written by an architect, with strong anti-allied bias. The quotes should be removed.Xx236 (talk) 08:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC) The book is unreliable according to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard.Xx236 (talk) 08:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As it is not a reliable source I've removed it and the associated text (which of course can be restored provided actual reliable sources are found).

The bombing of cities and the expulsion of 15 million Germans from Central and Eastern Europe was definitely not fair, to say the least. It did not correspond to the hight ideals the Allied Forces fought for against Hitler.--Wurzeln und Flügel (talk) 19:39, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Yiddish language is relevant to this topic, as are Ashkenazi Jews ("Ashkenaz" is often a name referring to Germany). Yiddish itself is essentially medieval German with a Jewish twist, and Ashkenazi Jewry began in the Rhineland and came to have its largest population in Poland. 192.12.88.7 (talk) 21:54, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is reference to German speakers from the Sud Tirol being moved under a treaty with Mussolini to areas of Bavaria. I had long understood that they were moved to Pomerania and East Prussia - a vastly different landscape from their homeland! Unfortunately, they had hardly established themselves when they had to flee West, ahead of the advancing Russian armies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeterDRG (talk • contribs) 15:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Someone should add the ~17,000 ethnic German, Lutheran immigrants that were forced to leave Salzburg (Austria) by the Catholic Prince-Archbishopric of Salzburg and resettled in what is now Gusev, Kaliningrad Oblast by invitation of Protestant King Fredrick William I in 1731. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salzburg_Protestants Dugbfresh (talk) 00:23, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]