Talk:Jael

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The contents of the Heber the Kenite page were merged into Jael on 24 January 2018. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 September 2020 and 11 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Catherder88. Peer reviewers: JSFrancois.

Above undated message substituted from

In line 988 of Milton's Samson Agonistes Delilah compares the betrayal of her husband with Jael's murderous hospitality, both acts committed "to save her country from a fierce destroyer". Asat (talk) 05:22, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The main Wikipedia page says, "She drove it through his temples with such force that it entered into the ground below," but that is not what the Bible says. ^[1] says, "Then Jael, Heber's wife, took a tent peg, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and drove the peg into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died."

Although the Bible says that Jael drove the tent peg into his temples and also says she fastened the tent peg to the ground, it does not say that these two actions are one. In fact, the next chapter (^[2]) says clearly that "at her feet he bowed, he fell, he lay down: at her feet he bowed, he fell: where he bowed, there he fell down dead." You can't fall down dead if you are killed while lying on the ground.

...Warren Gaebel, B.A., B.C.S. 70.31.183.208 (talk) 17:05, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

...and we should move the article there. This would help avoid the disam page too - most other people have "Yael" in their name. Johnbod (talk) 04:18, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

After looking at several major Bible translations on bible Gateway, all I can find is "Jael" and one "Ya'el" Complete Jewish Bible, but no "Yael"s at all. On googling "Jael in bible"/Yael the winner is Jael, though Yael has a strong showing in modern "famous women"-type sites. In art history Jael is invariably used. I'm clear we should use Jael and will boldly move it shortly, unless there are objections. Johnbod (talk) 14:14, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I might object. I'll think it through. --Dweller (talk) 14:42, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I don't object. I support: ([1]) v ([2]) --Dweller (talk) 14:45, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - Move now done by Dweller and tidied up here & at the disam page. Johnbod (talk) 14:32, 18 January 2016 (UTC:

Well done. Now wondering if this page still needs the "discuss" notification re: Heber the Kenite. Thanks for the great article. PrairieCat (talk) 05:57, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well nobody has commented in several months - I'm neutral. Johnbod (talk) 06:01, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge, on the grounds that

Heber the Kenite is notable only because of the actions of Jael, and hence can be discussed on her page. Klbrain (talk) 16:26, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply

]

 Done Klbrain (talk) 21:30, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Klbrain Well, undo... it doesn't make any sense. Redirect Jael and explain in parentheses within the article for all the King James people. But don't put the entire article under the wrong name. Monosig (talk) 12:54, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Johnbod I object! See my separate comment. Why move the articled to an antiquated, misspelled, mispronounced title? (apparently imported to Old English from Latin or German, both of which actually pronounced the Hebrew name correctly. In English the pronounciation becomes corrupted and incorrect because of the hard J in English) Monosig (talk) 12:50, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Surely that would be German spelling, in order to achieve the correct phonetic pronounciation. In English it can only be spelt Yael otherwise the J becomes hard (like Joker or Justin), which isn't the name. The name is Yael (or in phonetical purism Ya'el, because of the Hebrew 'ayin letter which is a guttural consonant). Monosig (talk) 12:45, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jael is the most common English spelling - as it is with many Hebrew names: Judah, Jesse, Jeremiah. The article should be consistent, though. StAnselm (talk) 15:09, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See the previous section. Articles titles are almost always decided by

WP:COMMONNAME. You realize the previous discussion was several years ago? Johnbod (talk) 15:47, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply

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