Talk:Jewish Palestinian Aramaic

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The region of ancient Israel was named "Palestine" by the Romans only at 70 AD, Jews were using Galilean Aramaic long before that in Israel hence the right name for the article is "Galilean Aramaic". Also, it's of stab of "Palestinian history" which refer to the history of Palestinian Arabs in Israel which starts only at very late and recent stage in history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.90.2 (talk) 09:30, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems it was a dialect. Chesdovi (talk) 09:56, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is insane that the standard Aramiac that is in the Talmud would be recatigorized and "Palestian". No one living in this time period would have called the language Palistinian. They would barely know that term and it would be a reference to the Philistines. They would have simply called the language aramaic. It is a striking anti-semetic lashing at the Jewish people to rewrite history in this way.

166.84.1.3 (talk) 22:42, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Palestine begins 1100BCE. Officially documented around 500BCE by Two separate Greek Authors. What was suggested on the Dead Sea Scrolls website hosted by Israel is that the other These other Local Aramaic Dialects came from

Palestinian Aramaic. But I disagree. I suspect Israel is just planning for when the Israeli State has total control of the region called Palestine. ` DigDeep4Truth (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply

]

The "Palestine" of 1100 B.C. was in fact Philistia, or the southern coastal plain area. The word didn't commonly refer to inland hilly areas until the roman Emperor Hadrian chose to rename the Roman province of IVDAEA ("Judea") to PALAESTINA ca. 135 A.D... AnonMoos (talk) 05:43, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

AnonMoos, Not True. I shared this Fact before. Why do you not remember the truth?

1. The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia & Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece.[6] Herodotus wrote of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê" in The Histories, the first historical work clearly defining the region, which included the Judean mountains & Jordan Rift Valley.[7][8][9][10][11][12]
2. Approximately a century later, Aristotle used a similar definition in Meteorology, writing "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them," understood by scholars to be a reference to the Dead Sea. ` DigDeep4Truth (talk) 07:13, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's nice -- as has been discussed previously elsewhere, Herodotus seems to have been quite ignorant of areas beyond the coast in that part of the world, and knew absolutely nothing about Jews other than that they were circumcised like Egyptians. Those who were more knowledgeable generally used Παλαιστινη to refer mainly to the coastal plain area (i.e. Philistia). For example, Pausanias referred to Judea as being "above" Palestine (i.e. in the hills inland from the coast), and not "in" Palestine. The Greek words huper tês Palaistinês υπερ της Παλαιστινης "above Palaistine" can be seen at http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0159%3Abook%3D10%3Achapter%3D12%3Asection%3D9 . -- AnonMoos (talk) 08:07, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Rename Article "Palestinian Aramaic" and have the Jewish prefix redirect here. Then include a hyperlink mention of other Aramaic dialects, such as

Do not rename: This article is mainly about the language of the Jerusalem Talmud, which is a Jewish document. Non-Jews speaking this or similar dialects did not leave significant surviving texts behind in such language (they generally wrote in a form of Syriac)... AnonMoos (talk) 05:43, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Christian Palestinian Aramaic is influenced by Syriac, but still a separate dialect, as is Samaritan Aramaic. (I will not start a discussion about the significance of their respective literature!) Or are Samaritans Jewish in your book? --46.114.4.117 (talk) 21:30, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Palestinian Aramaic is not a Liturgical Script. And though you see it has Liturgical use, it was not invented as a religious language. It has a geographical root name. And is therefore a regional language before being considered a religious one. ` DigDeep4Truth (talk) 07:13, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply

]

I don't know what "liturgical script" means, but the main surviving text actually in the language is definitely the Jerusalem Talmud, and the language of the Jerusalem Talmud is often referred to as "Jewish Palestinian Aramaic"... AnonMoos (talk) 08:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

^ "'Passion' Stirs Interest in Aramaic". National Public Radio. 25 February 2004. Retrieved 3 September 2011. "Jesus would have spoken the local dialect, referred to by scholars as Palestinian Jewish Aramaic, which was the form common to that region, Amar says." -- User:DigDeep4Truth

If the person making the remark is a respected scholar than I'm not sure that it being on NPR makes much difference. If he's not a scholar, then there might be a problem... AnonMoos (talk) 08:07, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Palestinian Aramaic – In use from 200 bce to 200 ce, Jewish Palestinian Aramaic was likely Judea’s primary language at the time of Jesus and the early Christians. In the Qumran Scrolls, literary sub-dialects of this Aramaic language are represented in several biblical translations, and in a number of non-biblical works, especially parabiblical works such as the Genesis Apocryphon and the Aramaic Levi Document. Bar Kokhba letters and 2nd century ce papyri documents recovered from the Judean Desert refuge caves show a different variation of Jewish Palestinian Aramaic that is likely closer to the spoken language at the time. ` http://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/learn-about-the-scrolls/languages-and-scripts ` DigDeep4Truth (talk) 07:40, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

1) Where are the non-Jewish texts? 2) If the commonly-used term among scholars is "Jewish Palestinian Aramaic", then that should be the term used on Wikipedia (

WP:COMMONNAME). AnonMoos (talk) 08:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply

]

And Jewish is not the commonly used term. The DSS Scholars are held hostage by the State of Israel. Claiming Aramaic places them in great danger of upsetting the State. All of Israel preached they have been exclusively Hebrew always. So of course the Scholar had to append Jewish to the name. We have the freedom to think for ourselves. So let us preserve

Palestinian Aramaic and redirect. As the Scholar says, "and in a number of non-biblical works". If it is not religious text then it is not Jewishly exclusive. ` DigDeep4Truth (talk) 08:22, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply

]

Unfortunately, your ignorance is quite laughable -- most Dead Sea Scroll texts were under the authority of the Jordanian government, and no Jews were allowed to work on them until after the Strugnell scandal blew up in the early 90's. In any case, the great majority of surviving texts are by Jews. Non-Jews who spoke the language usually wrote in other languages... AnonMoos (talk) 03:24, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am a student in a linguistics class. I am adding the sounds of this language for a class assignment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lombardi2342 (talk • contribs) 23:39, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't do that, as the sound table in this article is taken from Stevenson's grammar, which was systematically incorrect. (As explained in the book's introduction in its latest edition.) אמר Steve Caruso 04:58, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Under

It is not a political statement. It is not a religious statement. It is an established piece of academic jargon.

Please refrain from trying to delete the word "Palestinian" or the word "Jewish" or try to get this article moved.

Unless something huge happens that changes centuries of academic nomenclature, the monicker is set and unalterable.

Thanks. אמר Steve Caruso 04:54, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"DigDeep4Truth", who wanted to remove the word Jewish, has been banned since relatively soon after writing the comments above. No one has ever argued here for removing the word Palestinian. AnonMoos (talk) 09:40, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I was reading through the edit history and there were a bunch of times where random folks were blanket deleting "Palestinian" from the article, leaving it as "Jewish Aramaic" :-P :-) אמר Steve Caruso 15:51, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How ridiculous is that? How would they separate it from other Judeo-Aramaic languages then? (I am, of course, aware of Biblical Hebrew dictionaries using such general terms as if Judeo-Aramaic was uniform.) --46.114.4.117 (talk) 21:38, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I read that "centuries long nomenclature" of "Jewish Palestinian Aramaic" is reason to keep this article up. Apart from the fact that there's only 2 inline citations in the whole article, and the other 2 references date from after the 1900's, this hardly means scholarly consensus. A subsection in Aramaic would suffice the information contained in this article. Ramsin93 (talk) 16:58, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever -- as a written language, it's the language used in the Jerusalem Talmud, an extremely notable book which has been studied by many for many centuries (though the Babylonian Talmud is now usually considered more authoritative). There were also several oral dialects... AnonMoos (talk) 09:55, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some sort of Palestinian Aramaic maybe? If so, how was JPA distinct from such a PA? Or was there rather a continuum of Aramaic dialects throughout the region, with the Galilee being closer to Syrian variants than to Judaean Aramaic? Not talking now of Greek (and Latin for very specific admin. uses), those are different issues. Arminden (talk) 09:05, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see now that the intro to Christian Palestinian Aramaic seems to answer to much of it. Should be included here as well. Arminden (talk) 09:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The lingua franca in 1st century Galilee was the Galilean dialect of Western Aramaic, but it was not commonly written down at that time. The term "Jewish Palestinian Aramaic" most specifically refers to the language in which the Jerusalem Talmud was written, several centuries later... AnonMoos (talk) 19:22, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Western Aramaic, whether spoken in the Galilee or elsewhere, was distinct from Eastern Aramaic such as Syriac. AnonMoos (talk) 19:25, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]