Talk:Leader of the Opposition (New Zealand)

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This article is written in New Zealand English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, analyse, centre, fiord) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Because Labour has changed leader so fast we have a very interesting, and possibly unique, situation. Helen Clark is still Prime Minister until John Key is sworn in but I am not sure you could consider John Key to still be the Leader of the Opposition. Phil Goff is the new Labour leader and will indisputably be leader of the opposition once John Key becomes Prime Minister. However Clark as Prime Minister and Phil Goff as leader of the opposition also doesn't seem right. I'd say John Key is still officially the leader of the opposition but the situation is rather deliciously murky. Mattlore (talk) 05:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. Everything's in transition - Key is still leader of the opposition until the Gov-Gen appoints him as PM, that's about it.--Lholden (talk) 05:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mattlore I didn't understand your edit summary. What was it that didn't work before your fix? Schwede66 18:36, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oh right. I was seeing something like:

• Shearer|Key
• Cunliffe|Key
• Little|English

instead of:

• Shearer|Key
• Cunliffe|Key
• Little|Key
• Little|English

(if that makes sense...) This was on IE, I didn't check any other browsers so perhaps that was the problem. The same code I used has been used for Helen Clark in opposition, so someone else must have experienced it before as well. Mattlore (talk) 19:51, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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I have found numerous sources stating that the title is His/Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] DDMS123 (talk) 08:32, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hazhk DDMS123 (talk) 08:34, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Copying my reply from my talk page.

@DDMS123: Actually every one of those sources uses the term "His Majesty's Loyal Opposition", but not the title of "Leader of His Majesty's Loyal Opposition". The last source even shows that the Hansard simply refers to the leader as "Leader of the Opposition". Even if the Official Opposition may be formally styled as "His Majesty's Loyal Opposition", it doesn't necessarily follow that the leader of the Opposition's title includes that long-form style—in the same way that the prime minister is not referred to as "leader of His Majesty's Government". The office of leader of the Opposition isn't established by law, so I'm not sure there is an official title as such; we can only reflect what sources say. --Hazhk (talk) 11:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kia ora,

Earlier today I restructured a line that softly implied Chris Luxon was still LOTO, so that it read as follows (changed line bold, rest of paragraph for context):

Typically the leader is elected by his or her party according to its rules. A new leader may be elected when the incumbent dies, resigns, or is challenged for the leadership. The most recent election occurred on 30 November 2021, with Christopher Luxon being elected leader of the New Zealand National Party and thus leader of the Opposition.

I'm not the greatest fan of this wording, it still softly implies Luxon is LOTO instead of PM. Hipkins did not become LOTO when his predecessor died, resigned, or was challenged, he lost an election. Is there a clearer wording? I am thinking of adding

Typically the leader is elected by his or her party according to its rules. A new leader may be elected when the incumbent dies, resigns, or is challenged for the leadership, or becomes Prime Minister. The most recent direct election (where the incumbent had not become Prime Minister) occurred on 30 November 2021, with Christopher Luxon being elected leader of the New Zealand National Party and thus leader of the Opposition.

But I don't know if that's clunkier or not. MrSeabody (talk) 01:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]