Talk:List of coups and coup attempts

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No consensus have been reached on the many discussion pages about whether this is counted as a coup or not (though I think it is obvious if it is or not), therefore it should not be listed until a proper consensus is reached. 103.244.228.42 (talk) 06:35, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Even Cato Institute considers it a coup attempt and nobody can accuse them of doing so because of left-leaning politics. [1]https://www.cato.org/commentary/yes-it-was-attempted-coup 164.5.201.186 (talk) 16:41, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You link a “COMMENTARY” article, it is literally someone’s personal opinion and also the Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank. libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics and still holds many of its views 2001:8004:4610:C2EC:8135:E8BA:53DF:BA9 (talk) 16:19, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a list of Sources that say the event was not a coup:

• It Wasn’t Strictly a Coup Attempt. But It’s Not Over, Either. Source: The New York Times
• Was the U.S. Capitol riot really a coup? Here’s why definitions matter. Source: The Washington Post
• This Was No Coup. But It Comes Far Too Close Source: Bloomberg News
• No, What Happened At the U.S. Capitol Was Not a "Coup" Source: Montana Daily Gazette
• Q&A: Cuckoo, but not a coup Source: The Boston Globe
• Local expert says riot at U.S. Capitol not considered a coup Source: WKTV
• It wasn’t a coup, but Capitol riot resembled events seen in fragile democracies Source: Times of Israel
• Why This Wasn’t a Coup Source: Foreign Policy

49.188.220.81 (talk) 08:01, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it shoul not be added 2001:8004:4610:C2EC:8135:E8BA:53DF:BA9 (talk) 16:14, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This has been bugging me for weeks and honestly I thought someone would change it but it still says May 6th I have looked through all the Sources and none of them state that it had taken place on May 6th in fact this source:

https://eurasianet.org/kyrgyzstan-security-services-arrest-alleged-coup-plotters-from-obscure-party

that was provided specifically states that it was announced in a June 5th statement. I ask someone please change this and thank you. IEXISTISWEAR (talk) 23:35, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think this should count as a coup d'etat, specifically a failed barracks coup, given that I have read most sources listed in the other Wiki on the subject (Decembrist revolt) and it is literally called a 'failed coup' in the beginning of the article. Open for discussion, would like to talk about this. -shadowm Shadowmetallic (talk) 19:22, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

yes. It is. Please add it. Kalpesh Manna 2002 (talk) 15:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This has to be the first time in history that someone is accused of attempting to overthrow a government while being quoted as stating "we are the party of law and order" and publicly demanding his followers to go home. PointingOutBias (talk) 16:11, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We tend to call that "being untruthful". Zaathras (talk) 21:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's not our call -- scholars of political violence list it as a coup. But it doesn't say that Trump was in on it. Feoffer (talk) 22:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, if you see our extensive discussions last year, no scholars of political violence list it as a coup. If you look at the citations of Jan 6 in this article, none are from coup scholars. That's why nobody last year could agree to making this article into a list based on criteria from scholars of political violence. SamuelRiv (talk) 20:47, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was attempting to self-educate me on the 2014 events but found no entry in here. 2003:EB:6F07:CF00:6360:7712:13C0:7D29 (talk) 12:09, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be the Revolution of Dignity, it wasn't a coup. Zaathras (talk) 13:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there an explanation in the linked article why it is not seen as a coup, even though it is seen as one by some politicians and journalists? I found no explanation in this list, nor in the linked article. The latter is pretty large, possibly I missed it! 2003:EB:6F07:CF00:D37D:A4FC:E53C:E92C (talk) 23:03, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you found no explanation in the linked article then either failed to read it, or failed to understand it. Zaathras (talk) 00:41, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Euromaidan is classified as a coup in both the Powell & Thyne and the Cline Center CDP datasets. SamuelRiv (talk) 18:51, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your first link titled 'Global Instances of Coups from 1950 to 2010: A New Dataset." It does not include 2014.
Your second link refers Wikipedia and the first link. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 18:37, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First, please actually click on the P&T updated file ("Dataset 2), as it continues to be updated thru 2023. Second, your characterization of the CDP dataset is disingenuous -- their references in the sourcebook always include at least one primary source, and for Ukraine they include three (WSJ, Telegraph, and CSM). A reference to WP and a previous dataset serves as a source aggregator, as you should expect it does with every such reference. We reviewed coup datasets extensively last year -- both are respected in their field, and are about the bounds of exclusivity and inclusivity for datasets aggregating post-WW2 coups. SamuelRiv (talk) 19:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What are your references and how do they fit to

WP:RS? ManyAreasExpert (talk) 20:28, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

You did check the datasets I linked, right? Look for Ukraine, 2014 (the only one listed on either dataset). Everything refers to those. If my abbreviations or something else are confusing let me know. SamuelRiv (talk) 00:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cline calls what happened in Ukraine a 'Popular Revolt' not a type of coup—blindlynx 00:32, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The typology and operational definitions of the coup categories are provided below." [from CDP Codebook, which is presumably what you thought you were quoting.] SamuelRiv (talk) 00:57, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

we would need more robust sources than mentions in datasets to include it here....the cline codebook uses wide definition of 'coup', which makes sense given the kinda stuff this dataset is intend to be used for (i suspect the same goes for P&T) but typically the def they use for popular revolt (An irregular regime change driven by widespread popular dissatisfaction expressed through large-scale civil unrest. An event falls into this category if a large-scale popular rebellion overthrows existing leader, forces their resignations, or elites use irregular means to force leadership changes in order to conciliate the populace. It is not a popular revolt if elites overthrow incumbents they consider “soft” on dissent in order to facilitate a crackdown.) is not typically used for coups ... —blindlynx 01:05, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please review my previous comments, then look at P&T. I have addressed this. If you are interested in this topic, we went over this quite exhaustively and exhaustingly in discussions last year, which are linked in the section above. SamuelRiv (talk) 01:18, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The database/dataset doesn't fit

WP:RS. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 08:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

How? To support what text? What are you trying to argue here? SamuelRiv (talk) 16:25, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To classify Euromaidan as a coup. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 16:32, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First note that I never said any text should be added or that language should be changed. All I said was that X is in Y and Z datasets. I'm not keen on adding content -- the article needs a complete rewrite per the

WP:LISTCRITERIA

guideline.

That said, please actually explain how academic sources are not RS for the article in its current state, because that just seems totally bizarre. We've noted in this article that the definition of 'coup' is not fixed. These are widely-cited academic datasets that set particular definitions for 'coup' and make classifications according to primary sources. Are you seriously saying they are not RS when this article does not fix its own definition for a 'coup'? SamuelRiv (talk) 16:52, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If no changes are proposed then there is no need to discuss. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 17:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If none of us are keen on adding it let's leave it at that—blindlynx 19:33, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]