Talk:Maximilian Kolbe

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Former good articleMaximilian Kolbe was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Did You KnowOn this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 18, 2015Good article nomineeListed
November 14, 2023Good article reassessmentDelisted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on January 26, 2015.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Polish saint Maximilian Kolbe volunteered to die in place of a stranger in the Nazi German death camp of Auschwitz?
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on October 10, 2005, October 10, 2006, October 10, 2007, October 10, 2008, October 10, 2009, October 10, 2010, October 10, 2011, October 10, 2012, October 10, 2015, October 10, 2017, and October 10, 2019.
Current status: Delisted good article

Patron of

Is there a more reliable source than [1] for what is he a patron of? Some sources also suggest he is a patron of blood donors? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:16, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The official American shrine to Kolbe has something to say about his patronages at:http://www.marytown.com/content/who-saint-maximilian-kolbe The St. Charles Borromeo site, which is always very accurate, comments that he is the patron saint of political prisoners at http://www.scborromeo.org/saints/maxkolbe.htm The Franciscan Media site writes that he is patron saint of addicts and drug addiction at http://www.americancatholic.org/features/saints/saint.aspx?id=1107 Catholic Culture.org which is not as reputable as the other sources listed note that Kolbe is patron saint of drug addiction; drug addicts; families; imprisoned people; journalists; political prisoners; prisoners; and the pro-life movement. That is found at http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/calendar/day.cfm?date=2013-08-14 I cannot find anything that says Kolbe has been named a patron saint for blood donors. Sorry. Taram (talk) 05:52, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion to make a good article nominee just a bit better

I met editor Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here at another editor's talk page. He kindly asked me if there is anything I would add or change from my perspective. I think this is a very well written page with really just one sentence that needs some changing to be more accurate. That sentence is the second one in the Canonization section. The sentence currently reads

"Kolbe was venerated by Pope Paul VI on 30 January 1969,beatified as a Confessor of the Faith by the same Pope in 1971 and canonized as a martyr by Pope John Paul II on 10 October 1982.”

It is my humble opinion that the words "martyr" and "venerated" need to be changed in that sentence to be more accurate. The verb "venerated" should be changed to "declared venerable," because while technically when a person is elevated to the level of venerable, one could say that the person doing so had "venerated" the deceased person, that is too vague. With that said, though, the verb "venerated" typically means "to give honor to" as when one venerates relics, the bible, the cross, etc. When one is elevated from the status of servant of God to Venerable, one ordinarily says so-and-so was "made venerable" or "declared venerable" to distinguish the act from giving honor when venerating something.

The word "saint" should replace the word "martyr" for two reasons. First, the next sentence as well as the Controversies section clarify whether or not Kolbe is a martyr for the faith (that is "died for refusing to deny his faith"). More specifically, though, when one is canonized in the Roman Catholic Church, one is given the title "saint" in English. (There is no official route to canonize a person a martyr.) Kolbe was canonized a “saint” after the Roman Catholic Church progressed through the steps of holiness inquiries that it uses to see if he could be included in the list (a.k.a. "canon") of persons known to be in heaven enjoying the beatific vision of God. I suggest that sentence be written as follows (without the emboldened italics only used here to clarify where suggested changes are):

“Kolbe was declared venerable by Pope Paul VI on 30 January 1969, beatified as a Confessor of the Faith by the same Pope in 1971 and canonized as a saint by Pope John Paul II on 10 October 1982.”

Just a thought. Taram (talk) 05:02, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Other minor article change suggestions

I suggested three other minor sentence changes to Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here. They are pseudo grammatical in nature and can easily be ignored without chaging meaning or accuracy.

1)I see in reading earlier posts on the talk page that some are still upset about Marian apparitions to Kolbe being mentioned. So, I suggest moving the word "child" to a later point in this sentence so the poor reader can keep his or her opinion about the nature of apparitions without deeming them infantile.

Change:

“Kolbe's life was strongly influenced by a childhood vision of the Virgin Mary that he received in 1906 in Pabianice.”

to


“Kolbe's life was strongly influenced by a vision of the Virgin Mary that he received as a child in 1906 in Pabianice.”

or even drop any mention of childhood altogether and leave the date.

2) Change

“The Immaculata friars utilized the most modern printing and administrative techniques in publishing catechetical and devotional tracts, a daily newspaper with a circulation of 230,000 and a monthly magazine with a circulation of over one million.”

to

"Friars working with Kolbe in the Militia Immaculata utilized the most modern printing and administrative techniques in publishing catechetical and devotional tracts, a daily newspaper with a circulation of 230,000 and a monthly magazine with a circulation of over one million."

This is primarily to increase clarity because the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate were not created until later.

3) Change

“The guards wanted the bunker emptied and they gave Kolbe a lethal injection of carbolic acid.”

to

“The guards wanted the bunker emptied, so they gave Kolbe a lethal injection of carbolic acid.”

This is simply to use a clearer cause and effect type of coordinating conjuction in the sentence.

Just some more thoughts. Taram (talk) 05:22, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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Reviewer: Coemgenus (talk · contribs) 15:58, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this one over the next several days. --Coemgenus (talk) 15:58, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Checklist

here
for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (
    lists
    )    :
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (
    reliable sources): c (OR
    ):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (
    focused
    )    :
  4. It follows the
    neutral point of view
    policy    .
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have
    suitable captions
    )    :
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

Comments

Lede
  • I'd leave out the "very" in "very active". Saying he was active gets the job done. - done
Childhood
  • "a childhood vision of the Virgin Mary that he received as a child" This says the same thing twice. I'd cut " that he received as a child" - done
  • "He later described this incident as follows:" I'd cut the last two words there. - done
Franciscan friar
  • "decided to join". I'd just say "joined". It's the joining that we're interested in here, not the decision to join, right? -done
  • "He was highly active..." Again, I think "active" covers it. "Highly active" sounds like hyperbole. - done
  • You quote Kolbe's description of the Freemasons lauding the triumph of Lucifer. Was that really how it went down? Is there some more neutral source you could quote to describe the nature of the Masonic demonstrations against the Popes?
  • There's a "citation needed" tag on the bit about him being the only canonized saint with an amateur radio license. Also, "canonized saint" is repetitive. Are there non-canonized saints?
  • "publishing a Japanese edition of the Knight... " I'd spell out the whole title. - done
  • "Kolbe decided to build..." ---> "Kolbe built..." - done
  • " this one however closed after a while." Is there any narrower estimate of how long it was open? A couple years? Decades?
Death
Controversies
  • The first sentence is far too long. - done
  • "Kolbe has also been accused of anti-Semitism based on the content of these newspapers..." Which newspapers?
  • "As of 2014..." I generally omit these, since they require constant updating. The sentence works without it, and will surely be changed if Kolbe is added to that group. But see
    WP:AO
    for more information. - done
Influence
  • Marian theology could probably link to Mariology, no? - done
I implemented a few of the changes. Marauder40 (talk) 16:29, 13 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'll just wait on Piotrus to deal with the remaining issues. --Coemgenus (talk) 13:54, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Mostly done, I think? @Coemgenus:, and thanks you both (also @Marauder40:). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:56, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is all good, except for the Freemasons part. I haven't been able to find anything there, either. If we can't track down a neutral source, then the best we can do is make it clear that this is Kolbe's own story of what happened, not substantiated elsewhere. Ultimately, what's important is that he believed it, and that it led him to organize the MI. Also, when I clicked on footnote 10 for more information, the link was dead. You should update it or remove it. You've also got some inconsistency in the footnotes with authors' names. They should either be Last, First or First Last. I prefer the former, but it's the consistency that matters. --Coemgenus (talk) 14:11, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article already clearly attributes the Freemason account to "According to Kolbe", so I think that's fine. I've fixed the dead link, but I don't know of an easy way to fix the author last-first. As I am running a bit short of time, would you know how to do it easily? I see they are all part of cite templates, sigh. You'd think they'd at least be standardized... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:39, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you're right about Kolbe's account. There's not much else you can do. And I fixed all your citation templates, so it's good to go. I enjoyed reading this article about an interesting and worthy subject. --Coemgenus (talk) 16:06, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Death Certificate of Maximilian Kolbe

The Death Certificate of Maximilian Kolbe https://archive.org/details/SterbeurkundeVonMaximilianKolbe --105.0.22.233 (talk) 12:05, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Birth date

The German version of this article says that it is not quite clear when exactly Kolbe was born. The death certificate (mentioned above) says it was on 7 January. 46.114.142.5 (talk) 00:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When was the Militia Immaculatae formed?

Can someone edit the paragraph that starts ...

In 1915, while still in seminary, Kolbe and six friends formed the Militia Immaculatae and four years later began publishing the magazine Knight of the Immaculate. In October 1917, Saint Maximillian Kolbe and six other friars formed the Militia Immaculata ...

... to remove the ambiguity? Was the Militia Immaculatae formed in 1915 or 1917? Matthew C. Clarke 04:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reliability of Catholic sources

In the Martyrdom section, EWTN and Catholic-Pages are the sole sources used in the description of Kolbe's death, with the exception of his death date and the date of his feast day, which appears to have maybe have non-Catholic hagiographical source. The EWTN link is dead. Is there an independent, non-Catholic source for the details of Kolbe's death? Harry Sibelius (talk) 09:35, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, how about this? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:46, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately I cannot read it, because I haven't bought it. What does it say? Harry Sibelius (talk) 12:14, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

Maximilian Kolbe

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review
Result: Delisted. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:17, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are a lot of self-published sourced tags and a CN tag. If the citations could be improved, then I think it could be kept as a GA. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 21:02, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryTheorist I see the issue primarily concerns the use of http://catholicsaints.info/saint-maximilian-kolbe/ as source. It does not strike me as a RS. Non-conclusive single mention (critical) at RSN is at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_384#Religious_fansites. I support replacing this source with something more reliable. A quick glance at the refs here suggests that a few more are low quality too, if not tagged yet. I'll see if I have time to work on this in the near future. This passed GA almost 10 years ago, but I concur it is not up to modern standards. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:56, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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