Talk:Ripuarian language

Of the above, we can do nothing about MediaWiki. For the others, we can standardize on one of 'Colognian' or 'Kölsch', and / or 'Ripuarian' and modify the templates, categories, and article as necessary.

• {{ksh icon}}, {{link language}}, {{in lang}}, {{lang}}, and {{lang-ksh}} all rely on Module:Lang which overrides the IANA / ISO 639 code-to-name definition (Kölsch) in Module:Language/data/wp languages (Ripuarian) – the provenance of that module is unknown
  • if 'Colognian' is the preferred language name, Module:lang/data is modified to override IANA / ISO 639 / Module:Language/data/wp languages code-to-name definitions
  • if 'Kölsch' is the preferred language name, the override in Module:Language/data/wp languages is disabled
  • if 'Ripuarian' is the preferred language name, no action is required
  • if it is desirable to preserve ksh for either of 'Colognian' or 'Kölsch' and desirable to have a code specific to 'Ripuarian', in Module:lang/data, create a private IETF language tag, perhaps mis-x-ripuar, to specifically identify 'Ripurian' in the various Module:Lang-based templates ('Colognian' or 'Kölsch' handled as described above)
  • regardless of preferred name, {{ksh icon}}, though deprecated, is modified to remove |cat-lang=Colognian as redundant or wrong
  • categorization may change to match the preferred language name(s)
• the cs1|2 template suite relies on the MediaWiki language name table. However, cs1|2 is capable of overriding MediaWiki code-to-name definitions
  • if 'Colognian' is the preferred language name, no action is required
  • if 'Kölsch' is the preferred language name, Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration is modified to override the MediaWiki code-to-name definition
  • if 'Ripuarian' is the preferred language name, Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration is modified to override the MediaWiki code-to-name definition
  • if either of 'Colognian' or 'Kölsch' (handled as above) along with 'Ripuarian' are the preferred language names, Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration is modified to support the private code-to-name definition described above

Consistency matters. Article name should match category names should match template renderings. So the question is:

• which language name(s): 'Colognian', 'Kölsch', and / or 'Ripuarian'?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:13, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A month on, and there having been no comment, these decisions:

ksh – reserved for Kölsch per IANA and ISO 639-3

mis-x-colog – created for Colognian

mis-x-ripuar – created for Ripuarian

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:26, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1. Colognian is merely the literal English translation of Kölsch. Both are the adjectives that refer to the City of

autonym of the language designated by that code. The English primary name of the ksh language is, however, Ripuarian. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 20:38, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

Forgive me, but what conclusion do you wish readers to draw from what you have written?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:15, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

One conclusion is that, despite its derivation and label, ksh is the correct ISO 639-3 code for Ripuarian including Colognian (=Kölsch), as is yue for Yue Chinese including Cantonese. (Per "Denotation" links on iso639-3.sil.org/code/ksh, particularly www.ethnologue.com/language/ksh.) Colognian proper could be assigned a private-use subcode of ksh, e.g. ksh-stdrd ("Standard Ripuarian"), ksh-kolsh or ksh-colog (though ksh-colon might be the better choice, as the spelling Colonian instead of Colognian is attested). Another conclusion is that it is not in line with ISO 639-3 to use the code mis ("Uncoded languages") or an extension of that code for Ripuarian or one of its varieties. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 00:03, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Had the ISO 639-3 custodians wanted to associate ksh with Ripuarian or had they determined that Ripuarian should have its own code, they would not have associated ksh with Kölsch. Because the ISO 639-3 custodians have not elected to 'code' Ripuarian, for our use here, Ripuarian is an uncoded language so the private IETF tag mis-x-ripuar is appropriate. If you disagree with the custodian's decisions, you should take the issue up with them.

I can be persuaded that Kölsch and Colognian are more-or-less synonymous so instead of mis-x-colog for Colognian, we might use ksh-x-colog – colog because the en.wiki article is

Colognian dialect

(with the 'g').

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:58, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed that