Talk:Robert Spitzer (psychiatrist)

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This article could do with some more information on Spitzer's study on ex-gays - or is that found on another page somewhere? David L Rattigan 08:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Initially, homosexuality was deviant according to Spitzer and his buddies--then they hold a vote in 1973, and magically, it's not. Everything else in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has been placed there by plebicite, as well. His work is a comment on broad definitions of deviance, and little more. The "statistics" are little more than a recording of the votes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.44.224 (talk) 18:44, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Of course the story of the change to the DSM regarding homosexuality nearly 40 years ago was MUCH more complicated and nuanced than the above description. In the early years studies of homosexuality were preformed exclusively upon people who sought psychiatric care, prisoners, and those dishonorably discharged from the military. Over the course of many years, as healthy and well-adjusted gay people (including gay psychiatrists) became known to members of the APA, attitudes changed. The 1973 change to the DSM was just another story of the advancement of science brought about by greater knowledge of the subject at hand. You are correct that the Nomenclature Committee working on the DSM submits this sort of question by plebiscite, but the reason the votes changed is simply that real research was now being done and healthy gay people no longer needed to hide from those who pronounced them sick without having taken the time to study homosexuals who were well-adjusted. The above commenter alludes to the fact that "Spitzer and his buddies" were among those responsible for the updating of the DSM, however this fact is missing from the "views on homosexuality" section of the main article. Since there is such a section in the first place, and since it only mentions the fact that Spitzer now holds a controversial minority viewpoint that an unhappy but extremely well motivated homosexual can change his orientation, it would seem only fair (and NPOV) to point out Spitzer's mainstream viewpoint that led to the change in the DSM that removed homosexuality from the list of disorders. -William Malmstrom, Clearwater, FL 24.92.217.175 (talk) 01:58, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article reads, 'He was controversial in 1973 for arguing that homosexuality is not a clinical disorder.' There should be a better way of expressing this. Skoojal (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So,

There's a whole book about that paper, so more balance is certainly possible. Also, that section totally ommits Spitzer's central role in removing homosexuality from the DSM in the first place. I'll get to it, eventually. Tijfo098 (talk) 01:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

have a look here -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 02:43, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you play on that clip, you'll see exactly why I think the section as written portrays Spitzer in a false light. He isn't the anti-gay rights dude that one could easily conclude from reading his bio here. The section is not unlike a big pharma add: it states only things that are true, but omits others which are also true, and also important, with the ultimate goal of selling something. (Off topic, here's a deconstruction of an article---ad, really---in a pharma-sponsored publication. You may want to read just the 2nd to last paragraph if you're in a hurry.) I realize that the situation in this section may have been unintentional due the brevity of his bio here, but that doesn't change its nature. The recent version of this page that declared all his works incomplete except a preface he wrote for a book of another author, as well as declaring him as having practically disavowed the DSM makes me think the presentation of his position on homosexuality wasn't accidental either. I'll spend some time fixing it by adding the other issues. Tijfo098 (talk) 11:15, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Within the gay right circles, he is very much liked because he is very straight about what he actually thinks. The good thing about him as a researcher is that he actually does investigate what needs to be investigated, even when it is controversial. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 12:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would propose that the following paragraphs be added to the "Views on Homosexuality" section. Thoughts?

A 2001 Washington Post article indicates that Spitzer held 45-minute telephonic interviews with 200 people who claimed that their respective sexual orientations had changed from homosexual to heterosexual. Spitzer said he “began his study as a skeptic,” but the study revealed that “66 percent of the men and 44 percent of the women had arrived at what [Spitzer] called good heterosexual functioning,” defined as “being in a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year, getting enough satisfaction from the emotional relationship with their partner to rate at least seven on a 10-point scale, having satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thinking of somebody of the same sex during heterosexual sex.” Spitzer also found that “89 percent of men and 95 percent of women said they were bothered only slightly, or not at all, by unwanted homosexual feelings,” but that “only 11 percent of the men and 37 percent of the women reported a complete absence of homosexual indicators, including same-sex attraction.” The Post reported that “[s]ome 43 percent of the sample had been referred to Spitzer by ‘ex-gay ministries,’” while “an additional 23 percent were referred by the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.” Spitzer has stated that his research "shows some people can change from gay to straight, and we ought to acknowledge that." ^[1] However, Spitzer has also stated repeatedly that he believes such change to be “rare.”^[2]

In a 2005 interview, Spitzer stated that “[m]any colleagues were outraged” following the publication of the study. Spitzer added that “[w]ithin the gay community, there was initially tremendous anger and feeling that I had betrayed them.” When asked whether he would consider a follow-up study, Spitzer said no, and added that he felt “a little battle fatigue.”^[3] While Spitzer has said that he has no way of knowing whether the study participants were being honest,^[4] he has also indicated that he believed that the interviewees were being candid with him.^[5] 184.74.22.161 (talk) 18:17, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No objection, so I will go ahead and add.184.74.22.161 (talk) 05:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

references

This piece from the New York Times suggests Dr. Spitzer is the father of modern psychiatry. Perhaps worth mentioning in the article? I also left a note at Talk:List of people considered father or mother of a scientific field. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:01, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From Work On Homosexuality: "but that "only 11 percent of the men and 37 percent of the women reported a complete absence of homosexual indicators, including same-sex attraction." Sounds to me like they're being pretty dam honest! If we accept that they're not being honest, we must then throw out every gay-affirming qualitative study that does not go deeper into the perceptions or self-reports of its subjects. -Dr.Surf. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.109.220.115 (talk) 08:40, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that homosexual practice is a perversion was stated with this wording by Sigmund Freud himself, the elimination of this behavior as an specific diagnosis was the consequence of the homosexual lobbying, they didn't like being considered sick persons, but a free choice for sex. Robert Spitzer and his wife Janet B Williams were part, along with Gerald Klerman and Myrna Weisman, of the Quality Assurance Team in the Alprazolam/Panic Attacks Clinical Trial sponsored by the Upjohn Company (Kalamazoo, MI) in the late 80's, visiting several countries in this frame; they wrote an specific version of the SCID for use within this study.--Jgrosay (talk) 13:22, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

the section is a parade example of

The rest (90%) is he said she said, tit for tat stuff on a study the man later regretted and tried to withdraw. This is ludicrous and should be edited heavily - --Wuerzele (talk) 21:51, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Usually people with the surname "Spitzer" are Jewish, or have Jewish ancestry, for example, former governor of New York, Eliot Spitzer. If this is the case for Robert Spitzer, it should be mentioned in the body of the article. 2601:8C:4581:1150:31A3:755B:44B6:FF04 (talk) 00:01, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]