Talk:Thingeyri

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Requested move, 2007

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Failed --WoohookittyWoohoo! 05:13, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Þingeyri → Thingeyri — Thingeyri is the most common name in English. Þingeyri is totally foreign to an English speaker, due to the Icelandic letter "Þ" —Russavia 13:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since
Wikipedia's naming conventions
.
These Google results are thoroughly misleading since they include non-English-language pages. See my comment below under "Discussion". Noel S McFerran 03:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The name with the letter "
    Þ" is perfectly acceptable to include in a text written in English, a language which even used to have it among its alphabet. But by all means, a mention to "Thingeyri" should be included for those readers unfamiliar with "Þ".--Húsönd 15:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The operative term there is "used to". A mention of Þingeyri as the Icelandic spelling in the text would be acceptable. Gene Nygaard 13:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
N.B. Thyngyri does not appear in the article at the present time. Just one of the aspects of that ongoing disrespect for the English language. Gene Nygaard 14:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, it is not a mere error of omission. Rather, it is an intentional error of commission, by none other than User:Husond, putting the lie to his own comment above that "But by all means, a mention to "Thingeyri" should be included". Gene Nygaard 14:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The four books which have Pingeyri/Ingeyri (i.e. Þingeyri) are all recent English-language books on Iceland. None of them is written by an Icelander. All of them contain substantial information about Þingeyri (and, incidentally, would make good sources for our article). The two recent books which use Thingeyri only have a passing mention of the place. This makes a strong argument for Þingeyri being the appropriate spelling for an English-language article on the town. Haukur 13:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It should be noted that the official Thingeyri website English section uses Thingeyri, (quote: Always ask about hiking conditions at the nearest information centre in Thingeyri or Isafjordur). The Isafjordur website English section also uses Thingeyri, (quote:which also includes the villages Hnifsdalur, Sudureyri, Flateyri and Thingeyri). Additionally, the query which sent me here was
ICAO in English refers to the town and airport as Thingeyri. The only google news results are for Thingeyri. --Russavia 18:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
The coomb? a coomb, dry; this last term being ancient and little used. --U.S. Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, 1790.
Yet it still gets mention on Wikipedia. Gene Nygaard 15:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe Tony is trying to tell us that it should be moved to Yingeyri? Gene Nygaard 06:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:
Comment Huaiwei above claims that Þ is a diacritic. It is not a diacritic, it is a letter in the Icelandic alphabet, which in English is equivalent to th. We have articles at
Samara, not Самара. Google searches by Huaiwei are also flawed, as it does not separate English from Icelandic language usage. On the English version of the official website, it uses Thingeyri (quote: Always ask about hiking conditions at the nearest information centre in Thingeyri or Isafjordur). --Russavia 14:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
Additional comment:
Thingeyri Airport --Russavia 14:57, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment: I fear that the poor old US army still uses feet and inches. Anyway, the readability/typability demands of invasion forces, check-in clerks and so forth aren't the same as those of encyclopedia users. -- Hoary 13:08, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Nice of you to display such a total misunderstanding of the U.S. Army. They almost always use meters and kilometers and the like, and have done so for years. Quantities other than length are not as likely to be metric, but in mapping and the like it always is.
But more disturbing is that it is a total non sequitur to make that point here, even if it had been true. It has nothing to do with normal English language usage, and Russavia has provided us with several well-documented examples of that usage by reputable sources. So stop the red herring, unwarranted and irrelevant personal (or institutional in this case) attacks. Gene Nygaard 13:27, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My most abject apologies to anyone in the US Army whose sensibilities have been offended. If they don't like herrings, can I give them a squid as a token of my apology? Hmm, if the US Army really does use the metric system, can en:WP dispense with all the tedious translations into quaint units? -- Hoary 13:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No. The Icelanders still use feet for Thyngeyri Airport.[3] Gene Nygaard 14:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This does indeed suggest that Icelanders (or some of them) are battier than the US Army. Perhaps I'll send them a jellyfish. -- Hoary 14:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In aviation, feet are used for altitude. In Iceland just like anywhere else. --Bjarki 14:04, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The Google results cited by Huaiwei above are thouroughly misleading since they include non-English-language pages. Here are the accurate numbers for English-language Google hits: 617 for Thingeyri [4] and 711 for Þingeyri [5]. The results from Google Books are perhaps more useful since they represent what is published in scholarly works (as opposed to webpages): 123 for Thingeryi [6] and 27 for Þingeyri [7] - not one of which is from an English-language work. There really is no doubt that Thingeryi is more common in English. Noel S McFerran 03:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And the Google Books results are even more decisive than they appear. Actually looking at the hits shows that there are only 12 for the spelling with thorn, and all of them are actually hits on Icelandic text. This is why I include Iceland above. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Two related problems. One of the biggest problems with article creators with no respect for the English language is illustrated in the fact that this four-month old article sat here for the first 3½ months being missorted in its categories.

A second problem manifests itself in the fact that a Google search for "Thyngyri" and "slave" on site:en.wikipedia.org comes up empty.[8] You can check out the corrolary results yourself. Gene Nygaard 14:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gene, have you dropped messages in the talk pages of the creators of the article, mentioning that you're charging them here of having "no respect for the English language"? -- Hoary 14:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The article creator is part of this discussion, and may be presumed to have seen Gene's conclusion; I regret that it is supported by evidence. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:32, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No it isn't. That's an absurd and uncivil claim. The fact that someone uses a non-English letter and doesn't know about sort keys is hardly conclusive evidence that they have "no respect for the English language". That's a ridiculous and unhelpful conclusion to jump to. -GTBacchus(talk) 18:18, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Gene, try that search with the correct spelling ("Thingeyri"), please. It does find Vilborg Davíðsdóttir. As does this search with Þingeyri. Google is smart enough to find "Thingeyri" when you look for "Þingeyri" and vice versa. So, what was your corollary? Lupo 16:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay,I guess I didn't exactly further my cause by getting that wrong. But while it might be true that Google has equated "Thingeyri" and "Þingeyri" as synonyms (and possibly even learned it from our searches), that is merely a synonym for one particular combination of letters. That Google would treat Þ as equivalent to Th isn't something you can count on aas a general rule.
For example, try this search:[9]
Thrymheimr apples site:en.wikipedia.org [no hits]
and contrast it with this:[10]
Þrymheimr apples site:en.wikipedia.org [7 hits]
Do you get the same results I did this time? Gene Nygaard 18:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And, if you replace site:en.wikipedia.org with -Wikipedia, you get[11]
Þrymheimr apples -Wikipedia [17 hits]
but if you change to "Th" and drop the final "r", you get[12]
Thrymheim apples -Wikipedia [324 hits]
That's pretty instructive, too. Gene Nygaard 18:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I support using Þ when English does, or when the subject is so obscure that it is not used in English. (Are these last notable, þough?). English will use thorn sometimes, although I see that

edh and avoid thorn. This is probably sensible on his part. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:43, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
]

That's a bit different, though. He is actually named Thór and not Þór. It's pronounced with a /t/. Haukur 07:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It is amusing to see someone accusing those writing articles on the english wikipedia of having no respect for the language. It is hardly a scientific fact, it is an opinion which is used as a scientific weapon and unbecoming of anyone who so much as pretends to think of the wikipedia project as something more than a bag of hot air. Include the deity-like adherence to Google search results as an arbiter of naming conventions also seems like a folly. OCR is haphazardous, unreliable and never right, it is an approximation. Quoting searches in OCR results as the holy truth and then claiming that using the proper name of a place, probably none of those who want the name changed have heard of before is, is not right is simply a farce. --Stalfur 10:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Furthermore, most of the supporters don't seem to be able to see the rule that is in place. Rome is known by most english speakers, thus it is used as the title of the article about the city of Roma. Same for Venice and Genoa, however lesser known places like Lavagna do not have a corresponding english variant. Þingeyri is a Lavagna place, the number of native english speakers who have heard of it has probably doubled with the ASCII movement flocking onto this article demanding it to be moved to Thingeyri. The simple redirect of Thingeyri suffices those who search for it on Wikipedia, the lack of Þ-key on the map of the cartographer is not of any concern to an encyclopedia. The Icelandic wikipedia uses the same rule as the english one in this matter, our article about the city of Roma is at Róm, although we do not have London down as Lundúnir, only mentioning our native name for that city in the article. So far the only arguments given have been that "the author of the article hates english" and "Þ is not in the ASCII alphabet". The first one is easily thrown out as a banal statement not based on fact and thus not worthy of consideration, the second one would mean that every single article with a header containing áàåäâéèëê.. (etc etc) will have to be moved. Þingeyri is not a Rome, it is a Lavagna. Thus there is no reason for moving the article and the redirect in the other way suffices. --Stalfur 15:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The airport

Annoyingly I can't find a source saying when an airport was first established at Þingeyri. A 1964 advertisement in Morgunblaðið provides a terminus ante quem and World War II provides a terminus post quem since I know that no airports were built in Iceland until then. Maybe it was built by the Allies during the occupation. All I can find out is that planned flights stopped in 1996. In 2006 the airport was extensively renovated and now serves as a backup airport for flights to Ísafjörður. Haukur 22:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This issue of Morgunblaðið from 12 November, 1957 has an article (Sjúkraflugvöllur tekinn í notkun á Þingeyri) about the first plane landing at Þingeyri Airport on 2 November. The runway was rather small though (300x20 meters) and I'm not sure if the current airport is still the same one on the same site. It is most likely the case though. --Bjarki 00:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well done! We should update the article. Haukur 07:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Today the runway seems to be a bit larger: 980×30 m.[13] Lupo 07:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, the plot thickens. In 1971 a new runway was completed, measuring 1100×50 meters.[14] But this 2005 article gives the size of the runway as 950×30 meters but says that planned renovations will bring it to 1084×30 meters.[15] There seems to be a missing link here. Haukur 08:13, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like the edge of the tarmac crumbled, but it would be worth checking the direction of the various runways to see if they can be the same. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:41, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Local politics

Okay, this may be a bit crazy but I've dug up the results of elections for the local council from 1962 to 1994. After 1994, Þingeyri (or Þingeyrarhreppur) was not a separate municipality and before 1962 elections for local councils were typically not political. The council consisted of five elected representatives. In the table below I've lumped various permutations of independents, liberals, leftists and workers together.

Party 1994 1990 1986 1982 1978 1974 1970 1966 1962
B (
Framsóknarflokkurinn
)		 1 1 2 2 2 - 1 2 2
D (
Sjálfstæðisflokkurinn
)		 2 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 2
Others 2 2 2 1 2 4 2 2 1

Sources:

[16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24]

Haukur 18:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! This should definately be added to the article. Unless we want to make Þingeyrarhreppur a separate article? --Bjarki 00:11, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We wouldn't add it to any other town of this size elsewhere in the world. Why here? (Nothing would be wrong with generalization that the council has been divided and a note on the exceptional election of 1974 - especially if it reflects national trends.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The 1974 election is indeed interesting though it doesn't seem to reflect a national trend - the big national left trend came only in
the 1978 elections. The Progressive Party didn't offer a separate list so I assume they joined forces in a leftist front. The "D-list of the Independence Party and their supporters" got 48 votes and 1 councilman, the "V-list of leftists" got 98 votes and 3 councilmen and the "I-list of independents" got 54 votes and 1 councilman. My guess is that the Progressive Party was part of this V-list, but Morgunblaðið doesn't quite spell it out. Now, going out on a limb here I think the reason we don't usually have information like this for towns of this size is because it's usually rather difficult to find. User:Stalfur has been pioneering this type of information on the Icelandic Wikipedia, see e.g. is:Hreppsnefndarkosningar á Seltjarnarnesi. Now, I think having a separate article here for the election information would not be appropriate. Nor do I think that providing the names of the councilmen is necessarily the thing to do. But I do think a table and/or a graph with a few explanatory sentences could be interesting. Haukur 20:01, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
I'm curious, you wouldn't add it to any other town you say *of this size*. Would it be because you want ALL or NONE to have election results (even this rough overview) or does the political history not matter at all or only for towns *over a specific size* or? I'm trying to see the reasoning for election results not belonging in the article. --Stalfur 15:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thingeyri has a population of 450. This means, first of all, that election results are as likely as not to be decided by the random shifts and personal dislikes of a handful of people. More importantly, why are these encyclopedic? The elections of Mexico City or New York City or Jerusalem may be of world importance. Why are the elections of Thingeyri, or, say, Yonkers, New York, which is much larger? Yet the election results of Yonkers are almost certainly available on line, since the New York Times is, and are certainly available in print. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Þingeyri, of course, isn't of world importance at all. Nothing in an article about the town can be expected to be of world importance. The election results do not, perhaps, say very much in themselves but they are interesting to compare with those of other municipalities and the results of national elections. Haukur 22:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If someone would go through the trouble of compiling a basic overview of election results for Yonkers for the last decades, wouldn't that be a nice addition to that article? I would certainly think so. That nobody has bothered to do it yet does not mean that it should never be done. --Bjarki 02:30, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My point exactly. Earlier this year we compiled election results for a couple municipalities on the Icelandic wikipedia. Given enough time we might likely expand it to cover everything we can get data over. I would think that the election results are no less of an encyclopedic material than 2 pages about a singer in a band which had a single hit song and was never seen again, just to refer to some of the more banal side of Wikipedia. --Stalfur 11:06, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2009

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move
. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was page moved per the points made in the discussion. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Please participate in centralised discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias --Espoo (talk) 14:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Þingeyri → Thingeyri — 1) Spelling used in English by the town itself. The town does not use Þingeyri in English. 2) The official website of the town of Isafjordur, to which Thingeyri belongs, also uses only the spelling Thingeyri in English. 3) Þingeyri incomprehensible to almost all Wikipedia users. Probably 99% of WP users read it as Pingeyri or Dingeyri. 4) The article should mention Þingeyri once in the lede: "Thingeyri or Þingeyri (original spelling) is a settlement in the municipality of ..." 5) (This is a completely different problem from accents or umlauts, which do not need to be ignored or changed to oe etc. because they do not make the words incomprehensible i.e. unreadable to WP users.)--Espoo (talk) 21:27, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply
]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move
. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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