Talk:Tractor S.C.

Please go to

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

Hi guys, i found an updated edition of Tractor Sazi F.C.'s roster for the previous season, however i am unable to read it because it is in farsi. I am attached it as the latest reference. Any help updating this page is much welcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasperone (talk • contribs) 07:37, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

why did you used {{lang-tr}} .it points to Turkish (lang of Turkey) .but in Tabriz all people speak Azerbaijani language and not Turkish

Turkish or Azerbaijani

I think both Turkish and Azerbaijani are true, but it's better to use Turkic that include not only Turkish but also Azerbaijani. And you can use this site:Ethnologue, Languages of the World to validate my opinion. Arjanizary (talk) 19:03, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Objection

Why you havenot mentioned how Tractor soccer team was built and who brought the idea of having soccer team in Tracor manufacturing! Why you donot mention any name of the people who put a lot of efforts in 1970's! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.283.39.203 (talk) 03:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

in Tabriz all people speak Persian and Azerbaijani language and not Turkish panturks be qiute tabriz belong to iran forever — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greataryana (talk • contribs) 09:51, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please check the http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=IR to see that Azerbaijani Turkish is one of Turkic languages from Altaic Family. Arjanizary (talk) 18:12, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that it's better to add tractor fc's Azeri, Persian and English pronunciation with a sound. Also we can add it with symbols.Arjanizary (talk) 13:06, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

An image used in this article, File:Tractorsazi F.C Logo.png, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status What should I do? Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is fair use rationale If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Tractorsazi F.C Logo.png) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- talk) 17:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply ]

I want all of you for help to improve the

This IP deleted picture without any discussion. --Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 15:42, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This user write "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Not a forum for hate-speech. Keep your anti-Iranian Racism to yourself". What meanning of anti-Iranian Racism?--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 16:26, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't know what you are editing, then i suggest that you refrain from editing. Regardless of the politician situation between Iranians and Iranian-Azerbaijani's, the

Tractor Sazi

page is page dedicated to the football club - and not a repository for your own personal, pseudo-racist musings on Iranian political matters.

--Kasperone (talk)13:38, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The picture is about

Tractor Sazi page, but it is defferent with your personal opinion.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 21:26, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

--Kasperone (talk)20:21, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

After protection disappears, I would add a new section to the article. After adding this section picture related to the topic of the article.

"Conventional wisdom has it that Azerbaijanis, the largest ethnic minority in Iran, have historically tended to identify themselves with the idea of Iranian statehood and Shiite religion rather than ethnic nationalism. Yet recent years have shown a growth of their Azerbaijani Turkic self-consciousness which has not least manifested itself in the form of “sport nationalism”. The numerous fans of the Tabriz-based Tractor Sazi football club have become advocates of the ethno-linguistic emancipation of Iranian Azerbaijanis, an emancipation sometimes bordering on separatism and irredentism.

BACKGROUND: Last July 27, following expressive racial insults, the Tractor’s Azerbaijani fans engaged in violent clashes with the ethnic Persian fans of the Tehran-based Persepolis football team and Iranian police. During the clashes, dozens of fans got injured and dozens of predominantly Azerbaijani fans were jailed by police...." http://www.cacianalyst.org/?q=node/5432 --Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 17:43, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I want change this page, please help me.

B.shirmohammadi (talk) 07:43, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Per the template above, please provide a complete and specific description of the change you are requesting. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 13:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And please reactivate the template when you do, by changing answered=yes to answered=no. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 13:32, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Where is Toni known as Toni Oliveira? SLBedit (talk) 21:33, 15 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello,

Red Wolves nickname is based on radical right-wing groups to politicize the club and exploit the capacity of its fans for political purposes, which is against the official regulations of FIFA. some editor De-Persianization the club and player articles. this is a part of persophobia action.

There are several reasons why "red wolves" nickname rooted in the racist-terrorist group Grey Wolves (organization).

Show the symbol of the head of the wolf by hand, Devlet Bahçeli of the leader of the radical party Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) here1
Devlet Bahçeli With tractor shirt here2
https://www.cloob.com/c/iranhamishejavidan/126003159
Tractor flag with grey wolf symbol here3
yowling in stadium here4 youtube
The symbol of the gray wolves, at the stadium of Tabriz here5
The symbol of the gray wolves in Turkey here6
The symbol of gray wolves, at the stadium of Isfahan here7 here8
yowling in Turkey here9

Gholaghabijan (talk) 15:02, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone give a source that is not from Turkey which supports the statement that the nickname of Tractor Sazi is the "Red Wolves", I believe that there are other intentions in mind as this name doesn't match with the club nor is it a domestic name for the club. Can anyone give any Iranian sources, if not I assume there aren't and I will delete it.

I can give the references even from inside Iran for the nickname "Red Wolves". The one that people misuse it politically is called "Gray Wolves" not "Red Wolves". This is football and does not mean any political meaning. Even people in Tabriz call the Yadegar-e Emam Stadium as "Wolves Valley" which means that we do not show any mercy to any opponent by defeating them, which is only about football not politics. You are not allowed to remove the nicknames given by fans due to similarities to political issues. I will provide you some references ^[1][2] even from inside the Iran. Thank you for consideration and being nice to discuss. In the first one which is from Persian League website, the nickname is brought also in the title. I will undo the post undone by User_Wikaviani. Regards--90Pluss (talk) 21:01, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The first link is not the actual Persian league's website, just because it has that name, doesn't mean that it is that. It isn't called the "Red Wolves" within Iran, it's simply called Tractor. Can you provide credible and valid sources to prove your claims? No, because it really isn't possible. Can you explain what a Tractor, or even the city of Tabriz, has to do with a wolf? Why has this idea for a nickname known as the "red wolves" just arisen recently and not 15, 20, 30, 40 years ago? The issue here is that the "red wolves" which maybe used by a fringe group of fans, is just an unofficial nickname, but it is being labelled as the official nickname for the team which isn't correct.

These are very well known resources for football fans. In the first paragraph, you asked if there is other references. I brought the references and then you claim that it does not have credibility. Then, you ask the same question if there exists any other resources and you are answering yourself "No". This shows that discussion with you is meaningless and your answer is unchangeable. I will also add two more references [3] ^[4] to confirm that you are wrong. Unfortunately, it seems from your contributions that you are not an interested person on football and you are just here for political issues. This nickname was given by the fans for many years and deleting it from here does not mean that it does not exist. One can see the nickname on fan pages of Tractor Sazi in different social media. --90Pluss (talk) 16:56, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@

Migboy123. As to your sources, at least one of them sounds legit (the number 3), thus, i will add back the "Red wolves" nickname. Cheers.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:30, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

Please stop removing confirmed information. This is a nickname given by fans for many years.--90Pluss (talk) 19:09, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikaviani: again disruptive edits by some users.--90Pluss (talk) 20:40, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no disruptive editing happening but yours, the sources you've given most likely derived their name from this Wikipedia page. How do you know that the nickname is given by the fans for "many years". I'm not using this to get credibility but I am from a towns of Ardabil province and I have never this nickname being used. Once again, what is the link between a tractor and a wolf?

@

consensus for inclusion of the said nickname, then it should not be included. Please read this about this issue. I quote : While information must be verifiable in order to be included in an article, this does not mean that all verifiable information must be included in an article. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article, and that it should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content..---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 03:03, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

There is website (in English language) by Iranian photographer mentioned nickname "Red Wolves" (https://www.javidnikpour.com/portfolio/red-fans/), but @

Migboy123: @90Pluss: Thank you all for joining. PoetVeches (talk) 19:05, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

I found that on official Facebook page confirmed that there is the nickname "Red Wolves" https://www.facebook.com/pg/TractorFootballClub/about/?ref=page_internal. I found the FC also on Twitter @TractorSazi1970. But I cannot reach official website, because there server in Iran not allow my connection. I think if Facebook official page has it, it may be trusty source because it is official. It is hooligans problems, when they clash, but FC colors and nickname is not problem, if this is official. So, I vote, Yes, to add the nickname with the reference on the Iranian photographer website that looked trusty and professional (https://www.javidnikpour.com/portfolio/red-fans/). All clubs have hooligans, and i am not sure this may complicate use of nickname. There was some well-known case with the american club Washington Redskins, that had large discussion about racism (because it have the controversy but official logo). There is question if this official, if they have not this officially, then they have not, if have - have, I think. Also, the same is re terrorism. If FC Club published this on official Facebook page, then how you can accuse Wikipedia page which is sourced from official Facebook page? You may probably ask Facebook administration first to delete this instead Wikipedia, which needs some source. @

Migboy123: You can then sue official FC management [to be polite, I may better say, we may sue official FC management] for their official nickname , I suppose, if you think it linked with terrorism, instead deleting the nickname on Wikipedia, in all, this is answer in the case, if it's official or not, I suppose. PoetVeches (talk) 19:43, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

Also here (Radio Farda; April 20, 2019; https://en.radiofarda.com/a/brawl-in-tabriz-following-leading-local-soccer-team-s-defeat-in-home-game/29893127.html) I found the news in English about the clashes if this may be helpful, but there again nothing about terrorism. PoetVeches (talk) 20:15, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but Facbook and blogs, even from a photograph, are not what we consider being

reliable sources. The radio Farda source deals with clashes, but nowhere have i seen any mention of "Red wolves".---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:26, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

@

Migboy123: @90Pluss: Did you try to come on their official website (@TractorSazi1970 over Twitter)? Their website looks is not working? Because I tried but their web server is not reachable. If I would, I could find on the FC website with Google Translate the club nickname there if present, but I wouldn't. This is only problem with the nickname here, if FC Club management officially confirmed it or not. Or wait for ages until FoxSportsAsiaDotCom publish detailed article about the history of the FC Club. PoetVeches (talk) 12:47, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

Pan-Turks from Aran have filled this article up with nonsense. Why is there a "Turkish" name for this club? This club, matter of fact the Azeris (Historically the people of The republic of "Azerbaijan" have been called Caucasian Tartars and their land has historically been known as Caucasian Albania and later Aran, when I say Azeri I mean the Iranians), have no link to Turkey apart from having a similar language. No one in Iran, whether it be Tabrizis or not, called this club the "Red Wolves", what is the relation between a tractor and a wolf? Nothing, but in the eyes of the same Grey Wolves members which jump the border and attend these games, there is a massive correlation.This club is domestically known as Tiraktor or Tiraktor Saziye Tabriz. Don't use sources from Turkey and Aran to back up that the club's nickname is "Red Wolves", if an Iranian source calls Galatasary "sari maymun kopek", does that mean they are the "yellow monkey dogs?, no they aren't. I can go on and on with the other deficiencies which carry political rhetoric in this article but everyone has to remember this is about FOOTBALL, NOT POLITICS OR FALSIFICATION OF HISTORY! Let's keep it this way.

"Reza Tbzli" has resumed edit warring (without edit summary/explanation) as soon as his block ended, thus once again violating

WP:WAR. I have given him another 3RR warning.[1] - LouisAragon (talk) 16:34, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

Note: Said "editor" was initially blocked for two weeks for persistent disruptive editing,[2] but has now been indeffed due to an outright violation of

WP:SOCK.[3] - LouisAragon (talk) 16:58, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

Azerbaijani Language is the language of the people living in the North-West of Iran. The Tractor Sazi is also corresponds to an Azerbaijani speaking part of this country. I don't know who deleted it from the first line. I am adding this as it was before, hope does not mean any conflict as I have discussed it with Mygboy123.--90Pluss (talk) 21:00, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't reject or accept it because I too am unsure whether or not it is necessary to put it in because regardless of the language spoken the team is referred to as the same as it is in Persian, you have to know that Iranian Azerbaijani is different from Caucasian Azerbaijani (which is what is said to be Azerbaijani on Google translate). So what you type in on Google translate is actually Caucasian Azerbaijani and not Iranian Azerbaijani, they are quite different in a lot of areas. The Persian and the Iranian Azerbaijani name for the team are the same. We don't say "Kulubu" in Iranian Azerbaijani, we just say "Bashgah" or "Team". As for the "Red Wolves" nickname that you tried to add, there is nothing but attempted politicization of this team by the Grey Wolves organisation in Turkey and the government of Aran. The team is not referred to as the "red wolves" domestically by fans or the media, so please stop trying to add that in there.

Your aim of deleting this is to neglect that people in this area are Azerbaijanis. The people from Azerbaijan and Iranian Azerbaijanis are the same culturally, socially, linguistically. Living in two different countries does not mean that they are different. The idea that you mentioned is the radical ideas growing from mid-twentieth century by some radical people in Iran. You better not to refer to distorted historical books. The word "Kulubu" is from an English word "Club". This word used to be also in Persian and then it is translated to "bashgah". To use a Persian word "bashgah" or a word with English root, "Klubu", depends on the taste of people of this region. This does not mean that you delete the name of the club in the language of people living there. The fans of Tractor Sazi and the people in Tabriz speak Azerbaijani as their mother tongue and Persian as the official language of Iran. I don't know what is your reason to edit a football page, since you are not a football fan from your contribution. Enjoy deleting the correct information and enforcing political ideas. This is called vandalism.--90Pluss (talk) 17:26, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"The people from Azerbaijan and Iranian Azerbaijanis are the same culturally, socially, linguistically." You have to remember that historically there is only one Azerbaijan, and that is apart of Iran and is Iranian. The other place which has adopted the name Azerbaijan was known as Arran and Shirvan and was inhabited by Caucasian Tatars. For the sake of it, I will be using these once historical terms throughout my discussion to easily differentiate. If one adopts a name it doesn't mean they can change themselves. When you make such a statement there is a lot which I can provide against it. Culturally, the Caucasian Tatars are culturally a mix of Eastern European, Caucasian and mainly Iranian while Azerbaijanis are culturally Iranian. Linguistically they are also different, the phonology, lexicon, morphology, syntax, and loanwords in the two languages are different, they are even classified as two macro languages. When it comes to social, I am no social expert but I can assure you that just like there are significant cultural and some linguistic differences there will also be different social differences. There are differences between people socially from city to city, how can you conclude that they are the same? This isn't the place to talk about this, but I wanted to address it here when you make such a statement. This part doesn't contribute to this topic at all. "The idea that you mentioned is the radical ideas growing from mid-twentieth century by some radical people in Iran. You better not to refer to distorted historical books." Are you referring to Pan-Iranism? I can understand from your tone. It is not a radical idea and neither are the books historically distorted. There is sufficient information to prove that Azerbaijanis are Iranian, genetically, culturally and historically, and they have adopted a Turkic language that was forced onto them, so this doesn't mean that this language is a mother tongue either but rather an adopted tongue. This is common knowledge when it comes to Azerbaijanis. There is really nothing which can disprove these because there has been extensive research on this topic. Caucasian and Iranian Azerbaijani are different. So before you insult such things because you disagree with what's true, do your research please. "Enjoy deleting the correct information and enforcing political ideas. This is called vandalism." That is precisely what we are fighting against, we are deleting the incorrect information, getting rid of the political ideas and stopping vandalism. There were plenty of irrelevant things on this page such as the "Turkish" name for the team, plenty of uncited information and most of all the politically charged "Red Wolves" nickname. Like I said I could go around a make a nickname for any team, that doesn't mean that's the team's nickname. Also, I'll repeat this again, there is no link between a tractor and a wolf.

If this contribution does not add anything to this page I would like to stop it. But before that, I need to mention that the whole idea is based on some distorted books. These statement and also the corresponding resources are very weak to be considered as a part of history. Those statements can by invalidated by very simple questions. Azerbaijan was part of Iran. When does this region is adopted to Turkish language and why? If it is adopted, why it didn't adopted back to Persian since it was part of Iran with Persian as official language? Why the adoption to Turkish language was so fast, within years, but to Persian is lasting for centuries. Please refer to more reliable resources with historical proofs.--90Pluss (talk) 20:27, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's not based on distorted history books, it's common knowledge and the truth on the area. You started this, I didn't. What you are saying is not making sense, the linguistic Turkification took 200-300 years for the majority to speak. In terms of time, the complete Turkification ended in 1972 when the last speaker died. They didn't speak Persian, their language was Old Azeri an ancient Iranian language, and it was a dialect of Middle Persian. The language which the people of the entire Iranian plateau spoke dialects of. Just because the textbooks and the supposed "knowledge" that you might have come across says a certain thing, it doesn't mean it's true. You should look over those books and check them for historical and scientific negativism because what you are saying is a denial of history. The Turkic language spoken in Azerbaijan is an adopted language, it is not an indigenous or true mother tongue of the people there. They are not the descendants of Turko-Mongols.

(
South Azerbaijani
: تيراختور فوتبال کولوبو)

Also, Wikipedia knows this language and added this part of the Azerbaijanian language ( that code is :(azb) ) so if Wikipedia identify this language it doesn't need any additional discussion and I

Resolved

this article.