Talk:Vladimir Saldo

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De facto?

Is he the de facto head? De facto generally means 'in effect'. Russia installed him in charge of Kherson Oblast, an entity that Russia considers to be Russian territory, which makes him a de jure governor. It is, in fact, more dubious whether he is de facto in charge (since the Russian Federation does not control the whole of Kherson Oblast) than whether he is de jure in charge. Note that de jure only means formal legality -- the occupation may be illegal, but the appointment may nonetheless be legally sound. Ari T. Benchaim (talk) 01:32, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's because the occupation has no internationally recognition. so de jure, it's still the old ukrainian governor. de facto, it's this guy. Cononsense (talk) 04:27, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He is supposed to have died in an attack. https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1537802276743553024 --201.246.101.189 (talk) 03:21, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. This closer suggests that RMs going forward quote, link, and discuss what specific

reliable sources call the subject. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 12:41, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Volodymyr Saldo → Vladimir Saldo – Saldo is a head of Russian administration in Kherson, has been a Russian citizen since recently and Kherson Oblast will be annexed by Russia any day now as the referendum passed today, which automatically makes Saldo a Russian politician. Hence I think it would be appropriate to change the name of his article to the Russian version of his name Vladimir Saldo. Elserbio00 (talk) 18:29, 27 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 20:30, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Comment. It should be based on
WP:COMMONNAME. Yes he is the head of that Russian occupation regime, but it depends on how most RS spell his name in English. This should be evaluated first. Mellk (talk) 22:25, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
The annexation of Kherson Oblast and so-called "referendums" will neither automatically make Kherson Russia nor Saldo a Russian politician, this is not how this works. He is not a Russian politician, he is collaborator on the occupied territory, so this request does not have any practical sense. DoctorWhutsup (talk) 08:19, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think you missed the part where he was given a Russian passport. This is not about Kherson being annexed makes it part of Russia legitimately. Mellk (talk) 11:34, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter what passports does he have. Moves in Wikipedia are carried out according to
WP:COMMONNAME, in most cases. Super Ψ Dro 18:58, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
I already said above that what passports he has is irrelevant. Mellk (talk) 21:04, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment what we should take as basis is how most of RS call the subject at the moment. Allegiance/citizenship alone is a non-issue for us, Wikipedia just passively reflects RS. E.g. Mykola Azarov has been in Russian exile for 8 years and is 3/4 Russian, 1/4 Estonian with no Ukrainian roots to my knowledge, yet the article has the Ukrainian version of his name as title. Btw, I will look on it to figure out whether it is accurate any more, but I was just bringing an example.Knižnik (talk) 13:51, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:14, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose  The stated rationale has nothing to do with any article titling guidelines that I can think of (and its factual basis, although immaterial, is unsupported: does he now have only Russian citizenship? According to what reliable sources?). It’s worrisome that someone thinks the encyclopedia should cancel a Ukrainian identity in the context of illegal
    potential genocide. I don’t suppose they’re considering proposing Ukrainian-derived spellings for all articles about Ukrainian citizens, eh? —Michael Z. 02:25, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    WP:NPA (It’s worrisome that someone thinks the encyclopedia should cancel a Ukrainian identity in the context of illegal passportization...) 89.14.70.34 (talk) 18:33, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Support
    WP:BLP - not stated there, but he is living and clearly choose to be in the Russkiy Mir. 89.14.70.34 (talk) 18:29, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Vladimir+Saldo%22 226000 results 89.14.70.34 (talk) 18:37, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, you actually made a decent point here with Google hits. My Google search also (surprisingly) yielded more hits for the Russian version of his name. If the more important sources prefer this variant, then I guess we would need to move the Wikipedia entry. His choice "to be in the Russkiy Mir" is, however, completely irrelevant for us. We follow Wikipedia policies, but we don't follow any politics.Knižnik (talk) 20:39, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      That is not a decent point.
      WP:SET discourages web searches. —Michael Z. 01:26, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply
      ]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:52, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 6 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus per

WP:COMMONNAME (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 14:16, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Volodymyr Saldo → Vladimir Saldo
– 5 months passed since the last move discussion so I assume it's reasonable to start a new one. As mentioned in the first discussion, Saldo is now a Russian official with Russian citizenship and goes by the name Vladimir Saldo. Reliable sources also started referring to him with the Russian version of his name. Please check below:

1. BBC: Vladimir Saldo said all Russian-appointed departments and ministries would cross the Dnieper river.
2. Yahoo: On 5 August, Vladimir Saldo has been hospitalised in Russian-occupied Crimea.
3. Newsweek: Vladimir Saldo made the appeal Thursday on his Telegram page, writing that cities in Kherson have repeatedly faced missile strikes in areas with a high concentration of civilians.
4. Daily Beast: Vladimir Saldo made the appeal Thursday on his Telegram page, writing that cities in Kherson have repeatedly faced missile strikes in areas with a high concentration of civilians.
5. Financial Times: In a video shared on his social media channel on Thursday, Vladimir Saldo, the Moscow-installed head of the Kherson region, asked the Kremlin to assist with evacuations.
6. CNN: and Vladimir Saldo, head of the Kherson region, were granted the Russian Federation's highest state award at a ceremony in the Kremlin. Elserbio00 (talk) 08:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 13:53, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom - Tbf69 🛈 🗩 12:36, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Evidence needs to be given that this is now the common name among sources. I imagine it is easy to just find six sources using "Volodymyr Saldo" and say it is the most widely used name. Super Ψ Dro 18:43, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I get 7,800 results for "Vladimir Saldo" on Google News compared to 2,200 results for "Volodymyr Saldo". This is overall rather than just recent results. Mellk (talk) 08:57, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Changing to support per common name.[1][2] Mellk (talk) 09:42, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The proposal seems to argue that Saldo’s allegiance constitutes a
WP:NAMECHANGE
. I disagree. No one argues that we should always use Ukrainian names for all Ukrainian officials or Ukrainian citizens. (Is it also implying he’s lost Ukrainian citizenship?)
If it’s arguing COMMONNAME, then please properly give evidence.  —Michael Z. 09:09, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Individual is affiliated with Russia and reliable sources use the Russian naming option. --Killuminator (talk) 15:33, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever the resulting outcome is, it should correspond to a standard.
Currently, Saldo is the only major (“leading”) collaborationist/Russian-installed/Russian-backed “official” to utilize the Ukrainophone spelling in his Wikipedia Page Title.
If one disagrees with that outcome, they should either support the renaming of other similar Wiki Pages or just of this one.
talk) 02:36, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
We so often hear arguments that some or all Ukrainian subjects should by default have Russian titles because of reasons that don’t really have anything to do with the guidelines. But try to move one Ukrainian subject to a Ukrainian spelling and you will get a dozen editors telling you not only is it wrong, but that there’s something emotionally or ideologically wrong with you and you should have editing privileges stripped or be banned.  —Michael Z. 15:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting comment: to generate a more thorough consensus — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 13:53, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Ukraine has been notified of this discussion. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 13:53, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Russia has been notified of this discussion. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 13:53, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support by sources.
Panam2014 (talk) 15:01, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, since this is how he calls himself and how media call him as shown by the nom. Alaexis¿question? 19:41, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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