Talk:York Castle

	York Castle has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones Date Process Result November 24, 2010 Good article nominee Listed April 30, 2011 WikiProject A-class review Approved
	Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 16, 2011, March 16, 2014, March 16, 2019, and March 16, 2023.
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I don't know the facts, and a quick Google doesn't help, but were they:

• executed first (whether or not by hanging) and then their bodies hung in chains...
• executed by hanging using chains (unusual but I suppose could happen) ...
• hung alive in chains for a while, akin to being put in the stocks, but survived the experience?

"hung" would be right for the first and third, "hanged" for the second! Clarification is needed, please, whichever of the three is meant. PamD (talk) 14:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't been able to find a definitive account either. However, the entry for Robert Aske, wikiliinked in the York Castle story, suggests that hanging in chains was a method of execution.Acad Ronin (talk) 12:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, what this diff suggests is that you altered the Aske entry from "hung" to "hanged" three minutes before you made the above comment. --GuillaumeTell (talk) 18:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbet#Display, http://users.bestweb.net/~rg/execution/gibbeting.htm (its reference) and http://blindkat.hegewisch.net/pirates/punish.html#hanging all refer to "hanging in chains" as the display of an already-hung corpse in a gibbet or similar. PamD (talk) 13:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1) Obviously, I did change that one, but only to make it consistent with the usage in the preceeding paragraph, which clearly argues for hanging in chains as a method of execution, and that usage was not mine. 2) That one uses hanging in chains as a method of execution does not prevent it being used as a form of display of corpses post execution. Putting someone in a hanging cage and letting them starve to death would also be a method of execution. 3) The problem is not the general situation, but rather, what was the situation in this particular case, and that I have not been able to pin down definitively. The closest I have come is the wiki link to Roger Aske, which again, was not my formulation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acad Ronin (talk • contribs) 00:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I have found two references via Google books. The 1857 reference says Clifford was executed at York, and his body hung in chains. The more recent book (1990), says he was hanged in chains. Those were the only two references I could find. Which do we go with? Acad Ronin (talk) 01:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In this article we've got:

• William I
• King Henry III
• King Richard III

and more examples of each of the three (ie "King" absent, or outside the link, or inside the link). I've not checked what

Personally I'd go with not using "King" if they have a number, Richard III feels more correct than King Richard III. But King John is a king to distinguish him from the period when he was Prince John.MidlandLinda (talk) 20:51, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone through and given the article a thorough scrub through and expansion. There's general consensus in the histories of York Castle on most of the aspects, and I've made extensive use of Butler's official guide to the castle, and Cooper's turn of the century Edwardian volume, which is very strong on the castle's history as a prison. The expansion will need copy editing however! Hchc2009 (talk) 09:31, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a quick look, and there's lots of good stuff there. I'll give it a copy-edit, probably tomorrow. I do think that the reference to Clifford's Tower at the start of the lead is very misleading - the castle isn't just the medieval tower but the whole complex, including the curtain-wall behind the Castle Museum, the ex-prisons, the Crown Court and the remains of the prison walls on the south bank of the Foss. --GuillaumeTell 22:40, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken a go at rewriting the start of the lead - see what you think. Hchc2009 (talk) 22:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I spotted a couple of minor problems while reading through.

1. Under 12th century the wikilink for "special economic role as moneylenders" goes to a non-existent section.
2. Under 17th century reference 91 Twyford indicates multiple pages but start & end page is the same.

Keith D (talk) 23:52, 16 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• I think the link should work better now.
• Typo fixed.
• Cheers!

Hchc2009 (talk) 19:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Umm, the 12th century wikilink now works, but it points to Economy_of_England_in_the_Middle_Ages#Mid-medieval_growth_.281100-1290.29. Shouldn't the link be to Economy_of_England_in_the_Middle_Ages#Jewish_contribution_to_the_English_economy? --GuillaumeTell 22:29, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've had another go at it! Hchc2009 (talk) 22:23, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Works fine. --GuillaumeTell 22:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This review is

transcluded from Talk:York Castle/GA1

. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 03:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Done. Hchc2009 (talk) 22:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A.

   References to sources

   :

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

2. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   Is it really appropriate to refer to Victorian prison reform before Victoria ascends the throne in 1837?

Not really! Changed. Hchc2009 (talk) 22:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1. B. Focused:

2. Is it
   neutral
   ?

   Fair representation without bias:

3. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

4. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have

   fair use rationales

   :

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with

   suitable captions

   :

5. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Nice job, fix these few issues and I'll promote. Have you thought about submitting your castle articles for a MilHist A-class review?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 03:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've been meaning to - will give it a go! Cheers! Hchc2009 (talk) 22:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that you'd have any problems passing it, based on these two articles.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 23:29, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted the previous change about the atrocities in 1190, as the source being cited (Butler) doesn't support the alteration. Butler notes that Rabbi Yomtob "called upon his fellow Jews to commit suicide rather than suffer their inevitable murder"; although a "few survivors surrendered on the promise of Christian baptism... they were massacred". Butler doesn't suggest that the mob were attempting forcible conversion, but rather simple murder. Happy to discuss further here, of course! Hchc2009 (talk) 16:43, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone shed any light on the administrative history of York Castle? A Vision of Britain Through Time states that it was an extra-parochial area until 1858, and a

I'd try Thomas Parson's 1911 work for the earlier period, at least; from what I remember, it was very detailed and covered this sort of thing. Drop me an email if you can't find a copy. Hchc2009 (talk) 05:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the earlier period is the problem. Although the Municipal Corporations Act 1835 appeared to add the castle to the municipal borough, this clearly wasn't what happened in reality, and the castle continued to be governed separately. The change seems to have really occurred sometime between 1931 and 1974. Skinsmoke (talk) 16:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]