Template talk:Pretenders to the Russian throne since 1917

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Prince Nicholas

As far as any mainstream source is concerned, Maria is head of the Romanovs, end of story. Here are some examples:

  • "Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, is the current head of the Romanov dynasty" (The Telegraph, 2011)
  • "But most monarchists and monarchist historians consider Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna....to be the legitimate head of the house" (Royalty Who Wait, Olga Opfell, p. 71, 2001)
  • "Head of the Romanov Dynasty Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna" (RIA Novosti, 2010)
  • "Maria, the new head of the Romanov Imperial House" (St. Petersburg Times, 2010) ("new" after her mother died, nothing to do with Nicholas)

The last time Prince Nicholas was mentioned in the Moscow Times was 1997. There is no mention of him on the Web site of the St. Petersburg Times. Their archive goes back about ten years and mentions Maria six times. The top Russian monarchist organization, Russian Imperial Union-Order, supports Maria. The only major monarchist organization that opposes her is The All-Russian Monarchist Center. They have nothing to do Nicholas, but rather argue that the Romanov claim lapsed with the of death of Grand Duke

WP:UNDUE attention in this template. It is time to pull him out. Kauffner (talk) 13:01, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply
]

"New" after her mother. What a reliable source that clearly is then! Prince Nicholas is certainly not obscure there are many 'mentions' of him. He is almost 90 I very much doubt he would be as active as Maria and show up in the news every month. I wouldsay someone like Rosairo Poidimani, 'Duke of Braganza' is obscure and would not deserve a mention in a template like. Prince Nicholas is not in that category. - dwc lr (talk) 16:54, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nicholas certainly gets a significant number of mentions in the media, although not in recent years. But it's not usually in the context of his being a pretender or head of the Romanovs. Gotha and the Romanov Family Association don't qualify as
WP:RS. It's not about genealogy or succession law, but recognition by the public, in the media, and by scholars. Kauffner (talk) 17:17, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply
]
Its not appropriate to make definiate statements in a template like this, and arbitrarily dismiss the merits of a claim when there is no opportunity to discuss the various claims. There is a well known dispute and two claimants to the headship of this family. - dwc lr (talk) 20:02, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If Nicholas is excluded from Wikipedia as the main rival of Maria Vladimirovna for the claim to the defunct Russian throne and/or to headship of the deposed dynasty, expect near constant edit wars and serious talk page accusations that Wikipedia is biased in this matter. I agree that
foil to Maria's claim, which is opposed with an articulate vehemence akin to that of French Legitimists toward the House of Orléans or the Carlists toward the Isabelline Bourbons: the objections are as much ideological as dynastic and more moral than legal. I agree that Nicholas is much less an independently "viable" candidate than Maria because the relevant nuance here is fundamentally "pro-Maria vs. anti-Maria", but Nicholas (a self-avowed republican, whose animus quintessentializes the rivalry) has exploited that resentment (helped by the Vladimirovichis' high-handed public relations blundering) to become the focus of articulate opposition to Maria Vladimirovna. Her story as pretender is incomplete without his. FactStraight (talk) 22:57, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply
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