User talk:Bgwhite/Archive 23

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

(following your soft redirect on talk page on dewiki): Please stop edit warring on de:Wikipedia Diskussion:WikiProjekt Syntaxkorrektur. Instead consider adding a new section on the page there as compromise presenting and explaining the situation and also add {{nicht archivieren}} to prevent archival --se4598 (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

se4598. Why can't one of the two leaders of CheckWiki edit their own project page. Questions are being asked that never get responded to because nobody looks at the page. Prime evidence is a year old questions was just answered today. I've explained the situation in the edit summaries. I've been told nobody on the English page cares about German. I've been told German page is superior to the English page. I've gotten an email telling me that English speakers are not wanted there. Bgwhite (talk) 00:24, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

"I've been told nobody on the English page cares about German. I've been told German page is superior to the English page. I've gotten an email telling me that English speakers are not wanted there. " -> I don't understand/know what you mean. But I'll adding the idea mentioned above, the soft redirect doesn't explain anything and looks misplaced. But don't edit war any more, please :/ --se4598 (talk) 00:35, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

se4598 From user Succu in the edit summary "ich bezweifle, dass dort Anfragen in deutscher Sprach willkommen sind" What the hell? That is what I mean. I'm edit warring, yet nobody was reading my edit summaries. You didn't even look at the edit summary. Great, the page looks the same. People still will ask questions and not get answered, but hey, I know now English speakers are not wanted there. Bgwhite (talk) 05:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Once again FYI: de:Wikipedia:Vandalismusmeldung#Benutzer:Bgwhite --Alt-F-Fear (Talk) 05:30, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't speak German and the Google Translate is gibberish. I haven't a clue what you are trying to say. Find someone who can tell me what you are saying in English. Bgwhite (talk) 05:44, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

quite simple, I reported you on de-WP as Vandal, because you repeatedly redirect the Talk page of a de-WP project to en-WP, delete the list of people who work in this de-WP project, and so on. the projects are not connected, so redirecting to en-WP and repeating this after being revertet is vandalism --Alt-F-Fear (Talk) 05:48, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Alt-F-Fear please read de:Wikipedia:Edit-War. Es ist geschrieben: "Ein Edit-War ist nicht dasselbe wie Vandalismus". -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:48, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Moin, I closed the notice finally. Last point was a personal attack. Please, eaven the situation is not clear, please no more pa. --Itti (talk) 07:18, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The IP edit was not me. The IP went to a different continent than I am on. But, hey thanks for thinking ill of me. Bgwhite (talk) 07:27, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh no, I did not think that the IP edit was yours, that was just a we call them "troll". I wrote it in the notice on de, what I mean, but I think we can come over it. When you and Carol found a solution let me know how I can help. You are welcome. Regards --Itti (talk) 12:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

May I help?

Hello Bgwhite, my name is Carol (wich is the latin version of "Carl" in Gemany, so I'm a man, not a woman), and I was asked to try a kind of mediation between your english and the german project. I read the dialogs on de:VM and on the pages in de: that were involved, so I got a first impression what happened. May I try an overview?

As far as I see you're one of two managers of the english Syntax-Project, and you do some support for different languages, too. You tried to include your service to the de:Project-Pages by redirecting them to your en:Project to fasten up response-times. This was reverted and re-reverted by you, for this idea haven't got applause on de: Therefore things were escaleted and ended up on th vandal page. Is this right? Or have I overseen an important point?

If interested in deescalation (as I am), I would like to help by explaining the ideas and actions on both sides to oth sides. In case you agree with that I invite you to give me a comment.

Kind regards, --Carol.Christiansen (talk) 08:59, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

He is not only "one of two managers of the english Syntax-Project", he is also one of the persons who "fixes" the database and updates "unwilling" database-dumps. (I just wanted to point that out, so iy does not appear that he is only "responsible" for the enwp's database.) I hop I'm right, so that I didn't lie... (t) Josve05a (c) 09:35, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Josve05a, you are right. You reminded me, can I put you down as the svwiki coordinator? You are the goto for Sweedish questions and when the new errors come online for svwiki, you get to update the translation page. Oh.... There is sickness in the air, people dying everywhere, but Happy Birthday! Happy Birthday! Bgwhite (talk) 09:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Bgwhite, thank you so much for this honor! I would love to be the svwiki coordinator. But "Happy Birthday"? What do you mean? (t) Josve05a (c) 09:50, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

An honor is not what comes to mind, more like work. Bgwhite (talk) 10:03, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm under 18. I'm not allowed to work....(t) Josve05a (c) 10:04, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Stefan Kühn used to run Checkwiki. He essentially ran it out of his own talk page. He maintained every language checkwiki site. He was the person in charge on every site. The project has been stagnant for a few years. With toolserver going offline, I and a few others have now taken over the role. We have ported it to WMFLabs. We run checkwiki for 47 different wikis, including dewiki and dewikisource. We cannot look at 47 different wiki's for talk messages. Only enwiki and frwiki's talk pages are watched. Perfect evidence is the year old message on dewiki's talk page answered just today. Talk messages on other sites are not being answered, despite the fact that bars and links say to talk to enwiki's talk page. Alot of sites don't even mention enwiki is the place to talk.

My goal is not to let one talk message go unanswered. That is currently not happening. I want that changed. I want current information on the checkwiki main pages for each language.

I tried to change the talk page to make it more noticeable and was reverted. My guess is people saw the red link and the English, thus revert. I stopped after se4598 left the above message. Five hours later, Alt-F-Fear labeled me a vandal to be blocked. Any edits I've made in the past four months were reverted. I have been asked never to edit those pages as I'm not German and have no standing. Bgwhite (talk) 09:34, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, I see your point and will try to give that idea into the de: The point of the de:Members is another. German is a difficult to learn language. You allready saw the problem, the Google translator has with it; translations from a foreign language into german is most buggy, too. Unreadable, to be exact. So we have the - mostly unwritten - rule in de: not to accept posts in a different language and also not to accept interwikilinks out of the "official" links in the linklist of articles, supported by Wikidata. This is a fixed regulation, and that's the point, why Alt-F-Fear reverted your edits. I guess it would be better to find a german speaking Wikipedian, who is interested to work as a local contact to you. This would solve both problems: The time to get an answer and the problem to support the german language. Is that idea OK for you? Kind regards, --Carol.Christiansen (talk) 10:06, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I was writing in German, not English. Probably bad German, but not a reason to revert, especially for only one sentence. Lovely, I'm a vandal because of an unwritten rule. English checkwiki is an interwiki link listed in Wikidata, along with 41 other languages. There are already other links to other languages listed in the article. Why are they allowed? So, it doesn't matter if a German speaker writes there. No mention beyond a link in the bar can be put in the talk page. No mention of enwiki in the main article. No way to draw people to the enwiki page to ask a question. Bgwhite (talk) 10:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Just looked up some of your corrections on the last months. Sorry, that haven't been german, that has been english (example). These corrections have not been reverted, but changed to the - correct - german entry. This shouldn't cause no irritations, right? The word "vandalism" was used for the editwar around the Redirect and your - let me say: rude words. Both is not exactly kind. Maybe it would have been better to talk earlier, but let's try to do this now. OK?

Ah yes, tell me I'm rude one more time. That helps calm the situation. Germans aren't welcome on enwiki and English not welcome on dewiki isn't rude? Every edit was reverted. I'm talking checkwiki edits, not edits elsewhere.

OK, please give me a link to those Edits, maybe I'm to blind to see. And for sure I do not want to heat up the situation... :-) May I vary the "are welcome" sentence a bit? In de: german language is a must, we do not ask for the editors nation. Same is in en:, as far as I know. And I'm most sure that this was ment in the mail you got. --Carol.Christiansen (talk) 11:20, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Ah, now I saw. Havent't seen your difflink. The reset is correct. In de: all changes on pages in the WP: space need to be agreed before activating them on the talk page. --Carol.Christiansen (talk) 11:24, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Btw: The link to the english talk page of the project is set in an extra, commented box in the talk pages head. This should be a step in the direction you prefer, is that right? Kind regards, --Carol.Christiansen (talk) 10:33, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

No. It will still be ignored. Does anybody notice a message in a bar when there are five other bars around it? It needs to be noticeable when a person first opens the page. What about the questions I asked above? Bgwhite (talk) 11:08, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid there will be not much more what would be accepted in de: Just had a phone call with Itti, the admin you already got in touch with. We have one or two "translators" in mind who could do that stuff that needs to be done on de: and possibly would maintain that page. I guess that should work. Let's have a try.

What questions didn't I answer? Out of the rhetorical? I guess I have found all. But, again, maybe I'm to blind to see. Please give me a hint. --Carol.Christiansen (talk) 11:20, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Let me give a first conclusion, for I need to go offline for a few hours and will not be able to answer:

You need to get an efficiant information system for problems and questions about the syntax project. Therefore you wanted to set a redirect from the de: talkpage to the en: talkpage, what does not match with the rules and common behavior on de: We had some troble cause of that, for this local behavior wasn't known when you did those edits, but now you do. So both sides should do their bow: OK, we both where mistaken; your edits haven't been vandalism, even if they where against our local rules; and on the other side it would have been a bit more helpfull, not to redo those edits and to find out the differences between projects before editing. In my eyes this is a problem of the kind of: "OK, shit happens; let's forget about it drink a beer together."

I guess it's more important to find a way to work together, respecting the needs of both sides. At this moment the idea is to recruit a "translator", maybe a professional in dealing with scripts and the wikisoftware. This person needs to be found on de: and should give you the support you need.

Is this the way to get a common base? Or do you have better ideas to improve the connection?

Have a nice day, even if it started a bit nasty.

--Carol.Christiansen (talk) 12:03, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

FYI: Hello Bgwhite, I will take to some other guys, who are also active with general syntax correcting and created some scripts on dewiki, how the future of dewiki's project page and talk page should look like, especially if the project (page; on dewiki) currently covers/should cover a more general area of correcting syntax, not tied to your tool only. Kind regards, se4598 (talk) 16:38, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks to you, Se4598! Kind greetings, --Carol.Christiansen (talk) 17:19, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Bgwhite, there are first responses on de:Wikipedia_Diskussion:WikiProjekt_Syntaxkorrektur. I tested it with google translator and not everything is correct translated. I think tomorrow or so I will have time to sum up the points made there (or Carol, if he want) if you want, but general opinion, also from founder sk, so far is to let the german talk page exist and let ask general question there first. In the meantime the page got cleaned up, so the notice to the english project page should be more visible. I'm sorry to hear that you won't edit in dewiki any more. If you need edits/translations to be done, you can notify me on my talk page. Best wishes --se4598 (talk) 23:32, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello,
I have few full days in hand at this moment. And I am in a very cheerful mood right now for several reasons including Swami Vivekananda's birth anniversary.
Could you please set up Bengali (bn) and Hindi (hi) Sarkarverse, so that I can start working immediately?
The best help you can do is by setting it up in next few hours. Umm, thank you? :) Tito☸Dutta 21:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Next few hours? No pressure at all. Bengali is up and running. Hindi will be shortly. Has our fearless leader stopped pestering you and returned back home? Bgwhite (talk) 00:34, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Hindi is now up and running. Bgwhite (talk) 01:06, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

• I am getting an HTTP error 404 in the Bengali main page. Tito☸Dutta 20:19, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

• Main page is http://bn.sarkarverse.org Bgwhite (talk)

• Yes that page is returning an HTTP error 404. --Tito☸Dutta 23:35, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

• Try now. Bgwhite (talk) 23:41, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

• Yes it is working. Tito☸Dutta 23:46, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

• Titodutta, any problems show up? Bgwhite (talk) 08:02, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

• It is working fine other than a minor font display issue. Thank you. --Tito☸Dutta 00:09, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Are you reusing the error numbers? For example, number 1 once was "No bold title" and now is "Useless word template inside a template". You really, really shouldn't do this. Checkwiki is a database and ID numbers should never be reused in a database. Even if one of the numbers is not used any more and seems to be "free". It's very confusing to have old lists, edit summaries and such referring to an error number that has a completely different meaning now. In my case it's this list that became wrong and confusing now. I can't simply add the new errors to the end. I'm sorry if this sounds nitpicking but I really think this is a major problem and should not be done. --TMg 14:28, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

No, it is not nitpicking. Errors 1, 62, 89, 90 and 91 have been dead since 2009 and the code had been more or less frozen since 2010. #4 and #42 have been deactivated on enwiki for a long while. It may have been in the code, but they weren't being used. Your two tables make things alot more confusing and even worse. Your script didn't fix the re-used error numbers to begin with. Not many, if any, edit summaries would have any of these numbers. With your opinion, I now have three differing opinions on how I should have proceeded. Bgwhite (talk) 09:01, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

What are the other two? You have to know, I'm a software developer for a living. Reusing ID numbers is something you simply don't do. Never ever. It simply is a mistake. Again, sorry to say that but I want to be straight and to the point. Your script is a fork. For example, the original script on the old Toolserver still uses these numbers in their original meaning. Most localized descriptions are still talking about the old meaning of these numbers. There may be other forks that still use these numbers. Summary lines contain these numbers. Talk pages. Other external tools like the WPCleaner and others you don't know. There could be thousands and thousands of places where the old meaning of these numbers is used. You can't find and fix them all. It's way easier, more reliable and way less confusing to simply go on and use new numbers. --TMg 12:05, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Toolserver is dead. Useer accounts have been deactivated and the admins have quit. It will be turned off this summer or earlier. I was admin and programmer on the world's largest real-time weather database. In meteorology they are re-used. 1, 62, 89, 90 and 91 have been dead since 2009-2010, before you or WPCleaner were fixing errors. No errors have been reported, thus they could not be corrected. No other localized Wikipedia are reporting these errors, thus they cannot be fixed. Nowhere else should anyone be correcting these errors as they are now against Wikipedia guidelines or have been fixed in MediaWiki. It is not a fork when the software has been abandoned and other people take over. Thank for you and everyone else trying to revert me making changes to CheckWiki pages on dewiki. I didn't know only Germans can make changes on dewiki. I didn't know Germans are not welcome on enwiki. My point there was that people's questions are going unanswered. Prime example being your response to a year-old question. People didn't see the link in the blue bar. But, hey let's revert. Bgwhite (talk) 05:54, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I just saw your threat to block me and being reported as a vandal. So you can order me what to do on my own Project's pages. Just great. Bgwhite (talk) 06:15, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello Bgwhite, yes toolsserver is dead, but we move the script to tools.wmflabs.org/checkwiki/. I agree with Tmg: pleace use new ids for your new errors and don't reuse old numbers. -- sk (talk) 14:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Tim moved it to wmflabs. Tim's and my messages to you went unanswered. It would have been a real help if we had the original author explain why somethings were done they way they were. It would have saved us plenty of wasted time and experimentation. It also would have been a real help if Kolossos had actually responded to messages too. I have no idea what/why/how he wanted data for templatetiger. After repeated tries, I ended up removing templatetiger from the code. Bgwhite (talk) 23:11, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Please don't mix these things. You are quoting

Over 20,000 edits have been made using the new numbers in the edit summary. That is 19,900+ more edits that were made under the old system. I am not going to change what has been done. End of story. Don't bug me more about it. I will not reuse any error numbers recently turned off. NicoV already asked I not use those as WPCleaner will continue to fix those. So, any error numbers that have actually been used and have been used in aF or WPcleaner will not be reused. Any error numbers that haven't been used and have never been fixed by WPCleaner or aF will be resued. Its a Solomon decision.

The error number decision was made two months ago. I can't have you demanding changes months after they were made and put into place. I have no idea what level of involvement you want or don't want in the project. I have already added aF to multiple Checkwiki pages and other English pages. When/what/where do you want to be notified about any major changes? What level of involvement do you want and want for aF?

As I don't speak German, I've been told I cannot edit any page on dewiki. Any edits will be reverted. This goes for the Translation file as well. They are also looking for some other Project or people to take over German Checkwiki. I have been told my services are no longer needed. Therefore, dewiki is no longer part of Checkwiki. In the meantime, I will continue to run a dewiki file, fix and answer questions by Germans. However, I will no longer make dewiki only modifications. If another project does take over dewiki Checkwiki, I will turn off doing any dewiki files. Turning off old errors or adding new errors will no longer be done unless a German edits the translation file. Bgwhite (talk) 23:11, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm really sorry for what happened. What can I do? I really think what happened was 90% misunderstanding. It must be possible to find a way to talk to each other. It's not that you aren't right but I wish you had talked to us first instead of edit waring over a template. Let's treat that as an accident and forget it, please. I did a major update on the German page yesterday, we will watch it more closely and forward Checkwiki-only requests (again, the German page isn't only about Checkwiki) to enwiki. Also let's forget the numbers. I fully agree that they shouldn't be changed again now that the new meaning is used more than the old meaning. This is a very, very valid argument. --TMg 17:04, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	For your constant effort to improve the WP:CHECKWIKI project by coding, fixing bugs, creating whitelists, expanding regular expressions, leaving messages in various wikis, exchanging emails and who knows what else. I love the latest additions in CHECKWIKI error #16. Magioladitis (talk ) 22:53, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of that template. As you know, spellings weren't standardized in the C19th and variations do occur. I think it is important not to rewrite history by "correcting" apparent "misspellings". I endeavour to accurately record ship names as published in the sources used. Mjroots (talk) 08:15, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello B, Please take a look at User:Captain Assassin!/sandbox1 and move it to Inaam Ghar - It has started production and I couldn't find more sources, but I think these are enough which I already put in there. Thanks. --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 03:55, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for your clean-up on

Your helpful edits are much appreciated. I had kind of figured out that I should check whether refs come before punctuation, but hadn't got around either to double-checking or making the amends myself. Winelight (talk) 09:31, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello, please take a look at User:Captain Assassin!/sandbox1, and move it to Survivor (film) - the filming has begun already, sources added, thanks. --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 09:36, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I would like to know whether I can Edit Vellalar & Velir pages. I have added many comments & refs in the discussions pages (no reply from others) and now I want to add them in the article.Rajkris (talk) 22:24, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Rajkris, the person to ask is Sitush. He knows the situation much better than I do. Bgwhite (talk) 22:46, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Sitush is away for the moment. When he was here, he did not reply to all my comments in Vellalar & Velirs talk pages, but he did in the Kshatriya talk page. Don't know why. Anyway, he's the one who has right to do edits on those articles and fyi, he's not an expert on them... I have provided plenty of arguments with refs and no (counter) reply so far... So, I'm going to edit those articles, he can always discuss and/or revert if no agreement.Rajkris (talk) 21:34, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Rajkris, it looks like Sitush will be out sick for awhile. You may or may not be an expert in this area. That is not the issue. The problem is a couple of people having different views. This is something that happens all the time with historians. I can't say if you should or shouldn't edit right now. However, if you do edit and one person has a problem with the edits, you will stop editing the pages. Discuss at that point. If you cannot come to an agreement, then you can wait for Sitush.

Ok fine for me.Rajkris (talk) 21:51, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I'm finally back home and ready to work on WPCleaner.

How do you want to proceed for the new errors that are replacing old ones ? I can easily replace the old errors by the new ones for all wikis, but doing so only for some wikis is more problematic. Otherwise, I could simply deactivate temporarily some errors in WPCleaner and activate them once they are managed in the same way on all wikis by the script.

--NicoV ^{(Talk on frwiki)} 13:47, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

NicoV & Magioladitis, I truly don't know what is best. Sounds like if we do only some wikis for now, it is less work for me, but more work for you. Do it for all wikis and it is just the opposite. Magioladitis was around the last time Checkwiki added new errors four years ago, maybe he has some insight. I'm inclined to do whatever is easiest for you. You have alot of work inside and outside of Wikipedia to catch up on. Bgwhite (talk) 22:11, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

The easiest for me would have be to use new error numbers (#93, ...). On my end, it seemed clean and quite easy for everyone: you code the new errors, and update enwiki translation file; other translation files would be updated by each wiki (if they don't, they simply don't have the new errors); I add the new errors in WPCleaner (if I don't, new errors are simply not managed by WPCleaner). You still think reusing error numbers is good? I find it complex because it needs some synchronization between different wikis and tools.

Can we clarify the current status? What I understand right now is that some error types have been completely removed on all wikis (perl script is not checking them any more), and some of these error numbers have been reused for new error types (but perl script currently checks them only for enwiki, because the configuration files may need to be modified on other wikis).

If that's the current situation, I can deactivate all old errors in WPCleaner and release a new version tomorrow (it won't see the new errors). Once the configuration files have been updated, I can release a new version with the new errors.

--NicoV ^{(Talk on frwiki)} 22:38, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

• Currently, I have it hardcoded that the new errors work for enwiki only. I can hardcode a few others, say frwiki or can just remove the enwiki restriction. Main reason is to work out errors on only one site, but also delay updating translations files as much as possible.... I kept adding new errors.
• Per previous discussion, any of the error numbers that have been off for four years will be reused. Any error numbers that were recently turned off will not be reused, so WPCleaner can still use them.
• It is going to be a pain in the #($*@P no matter what when dealing with the translations files and new errors. Some will get updated by people, but most won't. Complaints will be coming in no matter what I do and I'll start pulling my hair out. Bgwhite (talk) 23:03, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Bgwhite, Here you go. (se picture)

(t) Josve05a (c) 23:13, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Why thank you. The wigs will come in handy when my hair is gone. Dame Edna has the hair color I want. Bgwhite (talk) 23:39, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

@Bgwhite and NicoV: I have some ideas:

When you start WPC, there are some texts about recent development. There we can place warnings about changes in CW script (I think most users using WPC know CW script). The warning can be linked with a page in enwiki where a summary of the changes can be.

We can use MassMessage tool to inform these projects.

... or do it by hand.

Matt S. (talk | cont. | cs) 18:12, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Ok, good idea, I've updated the message in WPC to talk a bit about CW. --NicoV ^{(Talk on frwiki)} 09:06, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

BTW, sometimes we want PUA characters, though of course we should always try to force support of an appropriate font. I've created the null template {{PUA}} to keep track of articles that have them for a reason. — kwami (talk) 00:37, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Kwamikagami The template is a good idea. It also helps people who haven't a clue what a box character, invisible character or other types of characters mean. Also shows it was meant to go there. Thank you for bringing some sanity to the equation. Bgwhite (talk) 03:15, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Glad you approve. Also, once they're substituted, they will no longer show up on dump scans or interfere w AWB. Hopefully if someone takes the time to substitute them, there's a good reason to keep them. — kwami (talk) 03:43, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Are you planning on making Sandbox3 a regular feature? Could it maybe be a subpage of the Checkwiki 16 dump so we have a permanent location to link to?

Thanks for all you help with this. It's nice to see it under control. — kwami (talk) 01:57, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

kwami, it will become part of Checkwiki. It will be located in two spots.

1. The monthly dump will be accessed at User:Magioladitis/AWB and CHECKWIKI. A whitelist can also be added at that location and Checkwiki will not check those articles for PUAs. The list generated in Samdbox3 is not a regular feature anywhere, but the list is generated as part of monthly dump processing. So, It can be put up in Sandbox3 or anywhere else.
2. A daily scan is performed and is accessed here. It scans most, but not all articles that have been edited that day. It does contain a Sandbox3 type listing. The scan starts at 0z everyday. Bgwhite (talk) 02:18, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

That's nice. With new edits we can see what's going on in the article history. The two recent ones were just stray errors. — kwami (talk) 19:05, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh, the tools.wmflabs.org page doesn't yet say that it's scanning for PUA. — kwami (talk) 19:13, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I hope this is OK. I saw this while working on the German translation. I would like to do a few more smaller updates and fixes. Maybe I should post my suggestions on the talk page first? What do you think? --TMg 20:21, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

TMg, anyone is free to make changes. I made some changes to your additions. If a wiki doesn't have a translation file, it uses the enwiki one as default. So, one one hand it is good to list all cases for #16, on the other hand it isn't. Bgwhite (talk) 21:08, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Couldn't we just say "on English Wikipedia"? — kwami (talk) 22:39, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I thought the "error_..._..._script" messages are the default and the English translation is for enwiki only? Wouldn't that make sense? To have a translation for everything that's enwiki only? --TMg 00:27, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

TMg, I truly don't know what "error_..._..._script" messages are for. They were not being used anywhere in the code. NicoV and I have been removing those lines from the translation files we overhaul. Bgwhite (talk) 02:04, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

kwami & TMg Let's blow up the old model as we have to edit all the translation pages anyway. Currently, CW checks 45 active wikis. 37 have translation pages and 5 are "versity" or "sources" that could use their parent's file. That only leaves 3 to add and English is no longer the "default". Bgwhite (talk) 05:36, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, could you explain this a little bit more? I don't understand. Maybe I misunderstood what Stefan wrote in his original documentation. Maybe the idea was to have the "script" messages as a hint for the translators what the original heading and description of that error is. If this is true it makes sense to remove all "script" messages from the English translation. Other local translations can keep the "script" messages if they want. If a new error is introduced it should use the English messages by default, either from the "script" messages or from the English file. That way nobody needs to waste time on keeping all the local files up to date every time something changes. New errors are shown in English by default and can be translated any time. --TMg 15:22, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

TMg, as with most software projects, what the documentation says and what the program does are two different things. In none of the programs that were retrieved off of toolserver, did any of them actually use the "script" messages. So, I don't know what the actual intent of the "script messages" were supposed to be. This wasn't the only detective work I had to do either. There were database tables, subroutines and programs not being used. There were very similar database tables. Programs that appeared to be running, but I couldn't find. Without help from Stefan, I've had to wing it. NicoV's WPCleaner also uses the translation files. The "script" message were not being used by either project, so we decided to drop it.

What actually happens when a new error is added to wiki? I'm certain that there are issues. Matt asked if cswiki could get the new errors now. cswiki is a "small" project that will be a good place to find and clean up any problems. Your idea of the English message being default for any new errors and then a translation added later is probably the way to go. Bgwhite (talk) 21:22, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

You may want to see User:VeritasVeritasOra2 (may be deleted by the time you see this). Jackmcbarn (talk) 04:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Jackmcbarn Sigh..... Sure can be fun around here sometimes. I don't think they will go silently. Thanks for the head's up. Bgwhite (talk) 04:56, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

User reported

I have reported the user for edit warring, copy of notification below. Safiel (talk) 05:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:VeritasVeritasOra2 reported by User:Safiel (Result: ). Thank you. Safiel (talk) 05:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Safiel, thank you for taking the lead on this. I have a bad feeling that this is going to be messy. Bgwhite (talk) 06:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, What is the reason to trim the information down. I based the setup to that of the sister club New York Yacht Club?NED33 (talk) 12:18, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

NED33, the two infoboxes that were removed were not mentioned in the article. Kind of hard to understand their place within KNZ&RV. Infoboxes are a place to find quick info that is already in the article, not the article itself. Also, shouldn't put telephone and email in articles. A website link is best. Bgwhite (talk) 05:06, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I will correct that.NED33 (talk) 06:59, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi! I saw that you recently made an edit on the Steve Jobs article, and I was wondering if you could offer your opinion on a discussion that I'm having with another user on his talk page. I'd be most grateful. Here's a link [1] to the discussion. Wobbit (talk) 09:19, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Almost every Google product (Gmail, Blogger, Google Plus) is down. This is for the first time I am seeing such a large outage. Something big has happened. Follow it. Tito☸Dutta 19:18, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Titodutta, For me almost every thing is down...except 'Google' itself (the seach function that is). (t) Josve05a (c) 19:21, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

• Yes. Gmail, Blogger, Plus etc all are down. I have never seen such a big outage in Google. Something big has happened this time. It'll surely hit news. Tito☸Dutta 19:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) When websites are down people search the web to find the anser, which will lead them here to Wikipedia. Prepare for vandalism. (t) Josve05a (c) 19:30, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

• I am dying to start 2014 Google outage Tito☸Dutta 19:41, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

See this. Bgwhite (talk) 20:54, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

		The Hard Worker Barnstar
		I am pleased to award this special barnstar to you on the occasion of your 300,000th edit. Wikipedia salutes you for your valiant efforts! Thanks for all of your contributions which have done so much to improve the encyclopedia and, thus, the universe in general. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 02:47, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

• I wanted to say "hmm, 300,000...any of them good?" but I'll just stick to the old "right on!", which has the added benefit of expressing some proper admiration and gratitude. Take it easy Bgwhite, and remember, you couldn't have done it without Mrs. Mandarax--or the kind permission of Mrs. Bgwhite. Drmies (talk) 15:07, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the Thomas the Apostle page, your edit caused a cite error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a

A930913. This is another false positive. Bgwhite (talk) 06:44, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, why? 930913(Congratulate) 00:53, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Bgwhite's edit caused a cite error to appear in the article (you can see it in the reference list, below reference 51). I have fixed it. That bit of the article was screwy before the AWB edit (there was a malformed HTML comment), so it's an edge case, but one that might be addressable in AWB's code, if it was an automated change. Thanks to ReferenceBot for pointing out this error that otherwise would have escaped into the wild. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:05, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello Bgwhite, please take a look at User:Captain Assassin!/sandbox5, and move it to The Gambler (2015 film) - thanks. --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 17:07, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

You look pretty busy in your own works, don't have a sec for me, huh? :) --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 16:32, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

More like forgetting to do it. Bgwhite (talk) 22:52, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Ooh, don't forget my request here, Mr. - Or I'm gonna sue you. :) --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 03:23, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure I understand why your bot is adding http:// in situations where it is not needed, or even desired. I am talking in particular about the article Aachen and then about the instances in the inline citation section. I understand the desire to have a link as opposed to a sequence of words and alphanumeric characters, but in this situation the link that is needed and desired for convenience was just one section lower in the Reference section. As per handling embedded links it states to not place the http:// in the inline sections. Granted I could be reading this wrong and my main point, as I assume yours, is to produce a more consistent product and do so with the least amount of resistance and provocation. Thanks for your time speednat (talk) 17:55, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Speednat, no problem in asking questions.

The overall problem here is that the article was done wrong in the first place. This is going to be complicated.

Lets take the first link changed by the bot: <ref name="rwth-aachen.de">www.rwth-aachen.de (2013)</ref> This shows up in the citation section, but it is actually mentioning the long form citation in the Reference section. What's wrong with it:

• The link to the website shouldn't be there. It should be the author of the book or journal article.
• A reader should be able to click on the link in the citation section and be taken to the appropriate long form citation in the Reference section.
• An example of this is today's Featured Article, Paul Henderson. If you look under footnotes, you will see links "Henderson 1992" or " McKinley 2006". Clicking on one of these links takes you to the long form version under the general section.

How to achieve this:

• The Henderson articles uses {{
  Harvnb
  }} notation... <ref>{{harvnb|Henderson|1992|p=7}}</ref>
• Previous day's Featured article uses {{sfn}} notation... {{sfn|Slabaugh|p=127}}

What one to use? A person who has been around here for awhile will use Harvnb. But, the sfn version is the newer way to do it and is now more common. With this edit, I changed references to one book over to {{sfn}} in the Aachen article. Bgwhite (talk) 19:09, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

The part I am confused, and you did not mention, is the link on handling embedded links states not to put the http:// in on inline. Again, I reiterate I am not trying to bump heads only to make my future editing easier and less susceptible to causing others to revert. Also, when did sfn or harvnb start occurring regularly, as I have been editing articles and in particular references for years and just started noticing them recently and they are not mentioned on several WIKI pages detailing how to cite sources. Strike that as I just noticed they have been added to Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Shortened_footnotes. I know it is an ever-changing process, but that does make it hard to make consistency stick. speednat (talk) 19:24, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Speednat, the hard part of editing around here is as soon as you learn how to do something, it changes. I understand you are not trying to bump heads, don't worry about that. Nope, we are going to bump heads. Took a look at your userpage. SUU, meteorology and geoscience? Me... UofU and meteorology grad. So, what are you upto? I'm not a U fan, so don't hold the U against me.

• I started using harvb in 2010. I was trying to get a GA rating for an article. It was explained to me that for articles with alot of book and journal citations, using harvb was the way to go. I've seen the sfn template gain traction over the past 18 months or so.
• You are confused on how to handle embedded links, but you are a Thunderbird, so confusion comes naturally to you. :) In the Aachen article, the refs should never have been handled that way. Doesn't matter if it had the http or not. On other pages, the proper way to do a reference is writing it out or using a cite template. A url will go in the reference in these reference. What not to do is to do is use a url link either as Apple or [2] or <ref>http://www.apple.com</ref>. However, the last one is very common around here because it is the lazy solution. The first two should never be used. The last one you want an http in the reference so the reader can easily click on the link.

Bgwhite (talk) 22:13, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I wanted to be meteorology, but they don't have it at SUU, and .. there's more $$ in Geo. What exactly is incorrect about the Aachen, I redid it and tried to standardize it. I used the short citation style; however I know what I did for the odd webpage was winging it, because I don't like the way it looks without an author. speednat (talk) 02:32, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Speednat, yes, there is more money, especially in the oil side of things. I do have family in Cedar, so be careful of any "shifty" looking people.

I "corrected" some of the web references. For websites, there usually is no "author". Instead use publisher. You can also move them out of the "references" section and into the "citations" section.

In the "Main sights" section, you may want to consider using gallery tags to remove some of the white space and order things up a bit. Bgwhite (talk) 07:48, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello Bgwhite, Lowercase sigmabot III has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Gg53000 (talk • contribs) 02:04, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Bgwhite. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{

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— Preceding unsigned comment added by OttawaWiki (talk • contribs) 15:48, 30 January 2014 (UTC) @OttawaWiki: Please add new messages and TGM or TB template at the bottom of the page, not at the top. You may use WP:Twinkle too to add these messages. Tito☸Dutta 09:03, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello Bgwhite, I've come here before and you've always been very helpful. I want to move an article,

Maragm, no problem, it is done. Convention is not to use royalty titles in the article title except when the person is still alive. Honorifics should never be used in a title. As you already said, there are exceptions... South-east Asian ones can be a pain. Bgwhite (talk) 09:12, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll be back when I go over some of the other articles I've seen with similar titles. I'll move Fernando now. --Maragm (talk) 09:19, 31 January 2014 (UTC) pd. I already started to change the links in associated articles but since a couple were in templates, I'll wait until these are updated there since many of the characters pointing to him are mainly because Fernando, Lord of Serpa is included in the templates I've already fixed. --Maragm (talk) 10:02, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Dear Bgwhite,

You removed an edit I placed on the Pine Bush page, and your removal of that content was inappropriate.

I am a Journalist accredited by the Orange County Sheriff's Office and have credentials that they issued after a review of my standing. I operate a Public Advocacy informational web site and have an online news entity in the design phase.

DEVELOPMENT MOTIVE MAY BE AT HEART OF ALLEGED CHARGES OF ANTISEMITISM

Today the Public Advocacy Web Site WALLKILL WIDE AWAKE ^[1] published the other side to this story of alleged antisemitism in the Pine Bush School District, and the rush to judgement lead by The New York Times, Andy Cuomo and the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York.

The above information was added to the Pine Bush Page and if the Times and US Attorney's information remains, this information should remain also. While everyone knows who these other entities are, you may not know that some of the information in the NYT article was obtained by a local stringer who took advantage of a mentally challenged worker at the local McDonald's Restaurant and cited that information as credible in the article. He also interviewed a person who was driving through Pine Bush and has no other knowledge of the person or where he lives.

The article was based on a law suit that was filed a year and a half before the article came out and the case was refiled in January in order to make it current to the activities of the developer who along with his father the former Chancellor of Yeshiva university who stepped down in disgrace over a number of sexual abuse incidents which he swept under the "carpet," have coordinated an attack on the community to establish a need for a religious girls school.

Their ties to the NYT and Cuomo have been used to slander the people of the area, and you are helping by not allowing an alternative point of view which is every bit as genuine as the NYT article.

Relative to the development a Sullivan County Supreme Court Judge has issued a Temporary Restraining Order pending a hearing and litigation of a Show Cause Order to have the development stopped in that the annexation of the property being developed was illegally annexed to the Village of Bloomingburg. This is directly related to the Pine Bush lawsuit.

Either take down the references to the Times article and the statement by the US Attorney or put back my reference. Your inclusion of those two items without rebuttal is prejudicial and biased.

Very truly yours, Vincent A. Ferri, [email protected]Binsu Jiro (talk) 02:10, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Wallkill Wide Awake • Public Advocacy News and Information, A Part of Democracy Watch by The Democrat~Observer &

Provider of Environmental and Forensic Investigation Services — Preceding unsigned comment added by Binsu Jiro (talk • contribs) 02:10, 1 February 2014‎

Looks like the issue you mentioned was my own error; I recently reinstalled Windows and had to reconstruct my AWB settings file from scratch, and it looks like I bungled the tag text that I was appending. I just changed it, and then ran a test where I tagged an article in AWB and then immediately hotcatted the appropriate categories to see if the problem had been fixed or not — and my change seems to have worked, so thanks for the heads-up. Bearcat (talk) 18:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Bgwhite, searching for my own contribution (which is naturally now stored in your archives) I found some issues. First, the link for "Archive 15" in the upper right hand side box points to "Archive 16", so "Archive 15" is currently inaccessible (by link). Unfortunately archive 15 is the archive, where my last contribution is stored... Additionally, new posts are stored in "Archive 22", which means that links to archives 20, 21 and 22 are missing in the box on the upper right hand side.

Concerning the well-known article Gary Wheaton, I am surprised that there are so many people who are not willing to accept the facts for a politician and try to clean out the article to disguise the reality. It's like an edit-war. Now the article is in a nearly-acceptable state, for the time being. You might want to have a quick glance at the changes since our co-work cleanup. Even though I do not know him, he seems to be a quite popular guy in the US (despite having a short article). --FlugTurboFan (talk) 19:23, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

FlugTurboFan, thanks for telling me about the archives. They are fixed now. I wouldn't call Wheaton's article popular. Looks more like one person trying to erase some embarrassing facts and then being reverted. Typical politician. I don't necessarily agree with Discospinster's edit to combine all the charges into "two driving-related arrests". Everyone speeds, so no need to single that one out, but the DUI is a different matter.

• And if you add an archive search box, others may quickly find posts. I needed it at least thrice. Tito☸Dutta 20:57, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

• I thought I deleted any Tito related messages. Boy, you sure cause trouble. A search box has been added. I saw you used "OneClickArchiver" on your talk page yesterday. I looked into it and it would work perfectly on another discussion page I maintain. Thanks you for finding that gem. Bgwhite (talk) 21:37, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

• / was not needed in "root". It was adding // after username. I have probably fixed it or broken it Tito☸Dutta 21:45, 1 February 2014 (UTC)