User talk:Suffusion of Yellow/Archive 8

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Archive 5 Archive 6 Archive 7 Archive 8 Archive 9 Archive 10

edit filter edit?

Hey, SoY. I'm trying to figure this out. What was happening there? —valereee (talk) 23:49, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

@Valereee: 2600:1702:4960:1de0:a83c:c5d3:22c0:a90f tried to make the edit here, but was stopped by the filter. I used a development version of this script to copy the text into the edit form, and saved it. If you're asking about the <br><br>s, that was in the original; I don't know why the IP did that. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:57, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
@Suffusion of Yellow, so they were stopped by the filter why? The reason I ask is I don't know if they were stopped because of the slurs they were using in the edit? —valereee (talk) 00:01, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Also...can you help me find the user contributions/user page that shows them making that edit? I can't find it to warn them about using those slurs. —valereee (talk) 00:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
And sorry for pinging you to your own user talk. :D —valereee (talk) 00:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
That filter (courtesy ping
mentioning, not using the words. I maybe maaaaybe they were trolling, but maybe not. Of course the vast majority of edits which contain those words are hateful garbage, but I don't think that one is. The subject of the discussion is "insensitive language", after all. Suffusion of Yellow (talk
) 00:19, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
@Valereee: But if you do want to warn them anyway, the link is at Special:AbuseLog/31333768. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:35, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
The reason we came up with the term "n-word" is because it's offensive to use the word itself even in such discussions. —valereee (talk) 00:57, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
@Valereee: Sure, I would have chosen to not spell it out in that discussion. You'll note that I'm not spelling it out here. But that's my choice, and if someone else wants to do things differently, and they don't seem to have a racist intent, I'm not going to try to stop them. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:10, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm sorry, the [1], I still can't figure out how to get to where I should discuss with them. Where do I go, and what diff do I show them that lets them see what I'm objecting to? Sorry to be obtuse. I can't figure out why this is obscured. —valereee (talk) 01:16, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
@Valereee: The AbuseLog link shows it was User talk:2600:1702:4960:1de0:a83c:c5d3:22c0:a90f. No idea if they're still at that address. There is no spoon diff except for mine. You can link them to the AbuseLog entry, but they'll just get a permission error if they try to view it. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:28, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
lol I'm clearly too incompetent to figure this out. I would argue, though, that we shouldn't be putting through this kind of thing, especially when it's, um, difficult for some editors to be able to provide a diff with which to start a discussion on a user talk. There really was no reason for that editor to use those terms in that discussion. They could have used "n-word" and made the exact same point. And we don't know what their intent was. —valereee (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
@Valereee: I don't understand why a diff is needed. I mean, they remember what they said, I hope. But there is a bigger problem than the filter. The IP is really dynamic and they've already moved on to User talk:2600:1702:4960:1DE0:515:ADE:B2DC:BDFA.
In any case, they explained their intent here, and I wasn't about to assume bad faith. We don't have any policy against mentioning slurs on talk pages (anyone who uses such words can be blocked on sight of course). Sometime, you have to. The question is "is it so gratuitous as to be trolling" which is really a matter of opinion. I think they could have expressed themselves better, yes, but that's not a reason to refuse to help. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 19:59, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
In that discussion, what did using the actual word vs using the term "n-word" accomplish? How does "refuse to help" even come into it? Just tell them to repost without actually using the slur. I'm having a hard time coming up with a discussion in which even "sometimes, you have to." And if the IP is that dynamic, by gosh, we really need to discuss this with them before they move on and do it again. —valereee (talk) 20:20, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

@Valereee: I don't think it was needed in that discussion. But they IP did think so: The words were contained in the post, in context, including an instance with an expletive also included. The point being made could not have been illustrated as effectively without their inclusion. I'm not going edit another user's message without their permission.

For a place where I would spell it out, try any of talk pages of the 1,694 articles that already spell out the word. As in, "I think we should change [quote from the article] to [my modified version]". Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:31, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

But couldn't you have told them to edit it? Why are we allowing it through when we don't even know where it's coming from? If a dynamic IP is doing this, they could do it over and over and over and we'd never even realize it was the same person doing it and we'd never be communicating to them that it's not okay. We just keep letting it through because some dynamic IP says, "Oh, it's necessary." When it isn't. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be hammering you, I'm sure you're just following whatever others have done in such cases, where should I go to discuss this? —valereee (talk) 20:41, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
@Valereee: I think there are three issues here getting hopelessly tangled up:
  1. When is it appropriate to fully spell out the n-word in a discussion?
  2. What is the best way to help editors whose edits are disallowed by the edit filter?
  3. Does MediaWiki's handling of /64 ranges leave something to be desired?
In order:
  1. I think if you surveyed people, you'd find a wide variety of opinions. It is after all,
    allowed in article space
    . Most people (I suspect) would say it is at least appropriate some of the time, for example when suggesting an improvement to such an article that already spells out the n-word. Maybe it is time for a village pump discussion about the subject; of course it will descend into a shitshow once the trolls find it, but maybe it's needed anyway.
  2. There's no common standard. Mine (for talk pages) is "Would I have reverted the edit if it had actually saved?" If no, then I'll make the the edit, unmodified (except for indentation, unclosed tags, and other
    WP:TPO exceptions), even if it make me squeamish. My general attitude is the filter can be an enormous hassle for new editors, so I try to be as generous as possible to avoid driving people away. If you want to discuss this in general, maybe WT:Edit filter/False positives
    ?
  3. Yes.
Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:22, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
My personal standard for #2 is around the same, perhaps lighter. The filter can be a hassle for newcomers so I try to make edits on their behalf, and also with private filters any diff can only be seen by admins + 20-ish non-admins, so generally if the edit was a false positive and is not vandalism or trolling, I'll make it on their behalf without prejudice to someone else reverting if they want. At minimum such edits should be in public contribution history, IMO, if they are indeed false positives (i.e. the filter should never have stopped them in the first place), so that anyone can review the edit, rather than the few EFFP responders becoming gatekeepers. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 21:53, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
SoY, the problem is that this edit was 1. by a dynamic IP and 2. apparently I can't even offer a diff to refer to when I go to their talk page to discuss. If it were an editor with whom I could communicate, I could have gone to them and asked them not to do that again because in this case it was completely unnecessary to spell those words out, and certainly not twice. —valereee (talk) 15:11, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
It looks to me like the use of the n-word on other talks is mostly on talk pages for articles that themselves contain the spelled-out word in their title or in a section head, or there's a discussion of a dog named that, or whatever? I mean, obviously if a dog is named N***** we can't refer to that dog as "n-word", as that would be unclear, so someone could argue they need to spell it out on the talk. I'd still use N*****, as it seems clear to me the dog is not named Nasteriskasteriskasteriskasteriskasteriskasterisk, but fine, use the dog's actual name to refer to the dog on the article talk about that dog. But using the n-word in a discussion about "wheelchair-bound" to emphasize that the term isn't offensive because it's not associated with actual lynchings, etc.? Saying "No one says "fucking wheelchair-bound", but they do say "fucking n*****" while actually beating up Black people" would have made the exact same point. —valereee (talk) 16:38, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
@
WP:EF/FP/R regulars to enforce our personal standards. The purpose of the edit filters is to keep out garbage like this and this. Edits that no sane person would ever say are appropriate. Not the sort that experienced editors might have long-winded discussions about. Suffusion of Yellow (talk
) 19:47, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

I had deleted the mobile editor's entire post, but it was later restored by an IP (likely the same person), twho also contacted me. Haven't heard from him (the IP), nor has he made any posts or edits since. GoodDay (talk) 21:39, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

@GoodDay: Actually, you deleted a different post from the same editor. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:42, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Oh, well anyways, the mobile editor should be blocked, IMHO. GoodDay (talk) 21:44, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
@GoodDay: Why do you say they are a "mobile editor"? Their edits aren't tagged as such. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:47, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Block'em anyway, if they return. GoodDay (talk) 21:49, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
They are still editing. But even if the now-infamous n-word post was a problem, I don't see anything else that's a major issue, though I disagree with some of their opinions. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:54, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
SoY, and that's is because it's so hard to even figure out where the edit is and how it might be handled. I do not understand how we're allowing a problematic edit to be so difficult to deal with. Seriously, it's a dynamic IP, so I can't communicate with them, and it's tripped en edit filter with a gratuitous use of two offensive terms TWICE. —valereee (talk) 15:14, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
IMO if you want to link them to a diff it's worth just linking Suffusion's edit and it should be clear enough what's going on. Otherwise, while ideally the edit should be reflected in the editor's contribution history, this is sometimes a hassle to make happen (and in some cases impossible). Combined with the issue with IPv6 talk pages, this is really just a series of deficiencies in the wiki software, but I don't think these are going to get development resources allocated to them anytime soon (c.f. the speed at which
WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU issues are being fixed). ProcrastinatingReader (talk
) 16:46, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
@ProcrastinatingReader, thanks. I didn't realize SoY's edit would be so much earlier in the edit history. Sucks that WikiMedia sucks so hard. Honestly what are they doing with all that money? :D —valereee (talk) 17:01, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

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page of Russell_Stuart

Hello... you reverted the changes we submitted to page Russell_Stuart and the warning said it was of advertising nature. This is not true. The data on the page was over 5 years old and a 12 year old photograph. We updated the information to reflect current data about this notable person and used all appropriate and relevant references. How should the page but updated to not trigger your reversal?

Rsepr (talk) 05:14, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Rsepr: I've switched out the photo. As to everything else, you have some reading ahead of you:
  1. Read
    WP:NOSHARE
    . Pick one person to have control of this account. If more than one of you want to update the page, you should each have your own accounts.
  2. Read
    WP:COI
    . Make the relevant disclosures, on each of your user pages.
  3. Read
    reliable sources
    that discusses the gun shop in depth. If none exists, then don't mention the shop.
  4. Read
    WP:EDITREQUEST. Submit an edit request on Talk:Russell Stuart, and be patient! Suffusion of Yellow (talk
    ) 21:00, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Scripts++ Newsletter – Issue 22

1184

Thank you -- TNT (talk • she/her) 23:47, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

You're welcome. But, they're adapting quickly, it would seem... Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:49, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
I'm keeping an eye on both now 😬 -- TNT (talk • she/her) 00:15, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Are you on IRC? -- TNT (talk • she/her) 00:47, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Ugh, no, never bothered with figuring out how to hide my IP. Agree it would be useful right now... Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:50, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Can recommend https://www.irccloud.com — the free version disconnects you after a while but it'll hide your IP. See also meta:IRC/Cloaks -- TNT (talk • she/her) 00:52, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
As to irccloud, [citation needed]. As to a cloak, yes should have done that a long time ago but never got around to it. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:01, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Alternatively there's a fair amount of us on Discord 🤷‍♀️ -- TNT (talk • she/her) 01:02, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
I'll look at signing up. Real Life calls right now unfortunately. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:04, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Might now be able to reconsider those filters -- TNT (talk • she/her) 02:22, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Done, we'll see if that works. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 02:30, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

You've got mail. (Or if any EFM available wants to contact me on Discord or IRC, that works too. It's a fix to most of the FPs on 1184 right now.) -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 02:25, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Technical Barnstar
For the competent and rapid development of effective measures to deal with an emergency issue. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 15:34, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
@ProcrastinatingReader: Thanks, but it was a group effort. Looks like it's getting a bit above my pay grade now, anyway. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:46, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Thanks for catching my mistake. Cabayi (talk) 12:28, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi Suffusion of Yellow, I'm one of the members of the

WP:DAYS project, and I know you started writing this filter some time ago. I'm wondering what its status is currently, and if there is anything I can do to improve it, if indeed it needs improving. Thanks, Kiwipete (talk
) 07:30, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

@Kiwipete: Yeah, I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me. Looking into it now. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:35, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi again, Suffusion of Yellow. Please can I ask - is the filter actually working? I'm confused by statements like "Actions taken: none" in the filter log. Does this mean that the filter is not matching edits which it should do, or does it mean that it is matching, but that no action has been configured? I notice that on the filter page, the section "Actions to take when matched" has nothing selected. Sorry if I'm nagging you. Thanks, Kiwipete (talk) 03:57, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
@Kiwipete: That means the filter is (intentionally) configured to not do anything but log. I recently made some tweaks and was waiting for the log to rebuild so I could look for false positives. Nagging is fine, this is one of those "1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" things, so I'm bound to find an excuse to do something else. :-) Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 06:51, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
@Kiwipete and Toddst1: How does this message look?
I'll propose setting the filter to warn if y'all are fine with that message. If not, feel free to edit it. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 22:41, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Wonderful!! Toddst1 (talk) 23:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, I'm very happy with this as well. Thanks a lot, Suffusion of Yellow. Kiwipete (talk) 04:11, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
For reverting subtle vandalism on the articles of Malaysian federal constituencies. --
talk
) 05:05, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks
WP:LTA/DCVFM? Suffusion of Yellow (talk
) 22:13, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Seems like it to me.
talk
) 17:13, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Maratha invasion of Bengal

The request you accepted[2][3] was apparently made by 107.115.165.11, a block evading sock of this user, who has been trying to add this information for the last 2 years as IP.[4] You can check the IPs of these both IPs and they geolocate to the same location.[5][6]

The source is misrepresented because it says that "during the period of Maratha invasions close to 400 000 people were killed"[7] than blaming only one side for killing the way this block evader is doing. Overall, what this block evader fails to understand is that we won't provide undue weight to his distortion of a colonial officer's account per

WP:RAJ
, unless it is deemed reliable by an independent reliable source.

I hope you self-revert. Thanks. Azuredivay (talk) 12:05, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

@Azuredivay: Thanks for the heads up! Done. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 18:09, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Email

Hello, Suffusion of Yellow. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{
ygm
}} template.
Hoping I wasn't too rambling when talking about my idea. wizzito | say hello! 06:38, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
@Wizzito: Not at all. Replied. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:13, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Check the filter log. I noticed it from a page watch, but hopefully it logged. wizzito | say hello! 13:23, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
@Wizzito: Thanks, replied. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 19:50, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Replied wizzito | say hello! 12:57, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Post whatever

Information icon I'll post whatever I want and there's nothing you can effectively do about it. Leave me alone. 70.161.8.90 (talk) 12:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article. If you just want to share what's on your mind, there plenty of other sites where you can do that. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 17:40, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
And this is one of them.70.161.8.90 (talk) 22:25, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
Three fun facts!
  1. 70.161.8.90 is a very very static IP. It's been the same person on it for over a year.
  2. 70.161.8.90 has a long history of disruptive talkpage comments. [8] [9]
  3. 70.161.8.90 has been blocked twice by Ponyo, once for disruptive editing, once for personal attacks or harassment.
Now, I've managed to make it something like 9 years without starting an ANI thread, and would hate to break that streak, but perhaps someone wants to do something with that information. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 01:15, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
I'm aware that they're back and am sort of keeping an eye on it from the sidelines. Should they continue to prove they are not capable of editing civilly in a collaborative environment, I expect a long block to be forthcoming. If you'd like to take it to AN/I in the meantime, that's fine by me as well (not that you need my permission!).-- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 15:50, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
@Tamzin and Ponyo: Thanks, both. I've just been too lazy to gather diffs for AN/I, honestly. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 19:01, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

email

Hello, Suffusion of Yellow. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{
ygm}} template.

Daniel Case (talk

) 18:56, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Do not

Misuse wiki. Something is not "absurd" simply because you say it is. Consider this a warning. Next time will result in a block. 107.77.241.30 (talk) 02:23, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
Four years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:58, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

WTF indeed

From an Iranian IP no less. Maybe we can split 3.5 M?-- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 23:16, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

@Ponyo: Hmmm. From the looks of their filter log, maybe not a scammer, but a would-be scam victim? Weird anyway. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:24, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Oof, I had to oversight that one those ones.-- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 23:27, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Honestly, 794 (hist · log) would be a good use case for phab:T290324. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:35, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Question on edit filters

Since you work a lot with edit filters, I thought I'd ask. Would a preventing new users from blanking pages outside of article space go under a new filter, or would it go under filter 3? I ask since I recently found an IP blanking template doc pages. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:17, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@TornadoLGS: I'm not really all that active right now, but we already have 33 (hist · log) and 420 (hist · log) for article talk pages, 34 (hist · log) for user talk pages, and 1151 (hist · log) for Wikipedia and Help pages. I recall initially trying to add templates to 1151 and getting too many FPs. This should at least be tested separately, though I suppose there is no harm in adding template namespace to filter 3 if the same logic works. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:43, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much. I feel happy again:-) 85.193.215.210 (talk) 21:51, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. Already said this at the AN/I thread, but you are better off reporting this user at WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Best known for IP in the future. The admins watching that page are familiar with their "vibe" you'll likely get a quick, no-drama "yep, blocked", or "sorry, I don't see the connection". Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 22:06, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Filter 1223

Any objection to replacing filter 1223 with what is in 1190? It catches less things, but I am not seeing any false positives. -- Guerillero Parlez Moi 09:44, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

@Guerillero: Replied by email. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:44, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

There is a mop reserved in your name

You are a remarkable editor in many ways. You would be a good administrator, in my opinion, and appear to be well qualified. You personify an administrator without tools and have gained my support already!
Would definitely be useful for you.. -- TNT (talk • she/her) 06:50, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
I agree with TNT; i recognise your name from a good number of places in the back rooms, and can easily imagine that the mop & tools would be useful for you. I don't know your content/front room work ~ it may be excellent, just not where i recognise you from ~ but so long as it isn't troubled with copyright errors or image issues or many unwilling trips to the drama boards i can't imagine that an RfA would be a bad idea. Happy days ~ LindsayHello 00:08, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Bumping this - can we please get you a mop? :) firefly ( t · c ) 21:22, 19 October 2022 (UTC)