User talk:SusunW/Archive 8

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You should make User:Nvvchar co-author of the 14 articles and then he will get credit for the DYKs like you would. User:Dr. Blofeld would know how to do that in the nomination, if you think this is a good idea.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:28, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

That's a fabulous idea but I really do not even want to go back to DYK at all. I seriously thought about pulling my one other nomination. But, if I don't that is in essence stooping to their level and making it about ego and not about what is best for the encyclopedia. Funny thing is that they don't even see their arrogance and how it turns people off. *sigh* I will see if I can figure it out. SusunW (talk) 22:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Doug Coldwell: Thank you for suggesting that. I doubt that I did it correctly, but I added him and I am sure someone or some bot will fix it. SusunW (talk) 23:00, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks you for the Barnstar and for the kind words. There are two more to go which I will finish today. Pl don't be disheartened. Such reviews are common in DYK and you have to bear them with a grin. You will get through. Cheers and best wishes.--Nvvchar. 00:33, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

@Nvvchar: I am truly serious, I don't know how you do it. And the truth is that it should not be like that. They don't even see their arrogance. I knew the second that Rob pinged Yoninah exactly how it would go down. That link they posted for Rob's question was telling, like a bunch of school children, "Is this hook in Prep 1 as bad as I think it is" "seems absolutely terrible to me," "current hook isn't very good". Mind you, these are approved articles. Why exactly do they get to decide? Where exactly is it in the rules that a group of editors can pull back something someone approved because they don't like it. Such reviews should not be common and if they are (and I agree with you that they are), they are abusing the system and the other editors for their ego trips, IMO. I will take another 30 day break from it and see if it changes, but I think I am disgusted and fed up. SusunW (talk) 01:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Susun - I agree with Nvvchar. Don't be disheartened - same thing happen to me. I'm not nearly as smart as Nvvchar and Dr. Blofeld, so here is how I solved the problem. I work up a draft article first (offline). My own philosophy is to try to make the draft at least double required = 3000 characters. I try to iron out all the problems in the draft before I make it live. Check out my last DYKs to see the article when I "created" it. I certainly didn't create the article in that one big edit where it says "new article". I had been working on it for a couple of weeks already, then made it live. That's just the way I do it to keep the problems to a minimum and have developed my list of DYKs that way. Drop me an e-mail for more details.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:36, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
• Susun - Here is how I do research using ILL books. You probably have something similar in your state. My reseach for most articles take anywhere from 1-4 weeks before I make them live where I created a "new article." In the background it is really a couple of weeks old.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:31, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

@Doug Coldwell: The thing is I have never had an article rejected, never had one nominated for deletion, etc. However, DYK is a different animal. It seems that a very small group of people, without consensus from anyone, govern what they will allow or grant. The majority of my files that have been pulled from approval met all DYK guidelines, but Yoninah pulled it. And yes, I have decided to start calling her out about it. I don't usually make waves, but I don't understand why she wields such power or is allowed to. And I'd like to point out they still don't have consensus. The people who weighed in for Rob before the discussion, never commented on the article. Thus, he has him and Yoninah of the magic wand, apparently. She's the only person I know who has as much power on here as Jimbo Wales. And I have no access to ILL. No such thing in Mexico, nor are most of the books electronic format. You must physically go to the facility that has the book. I have a US library card, but unless the book is electronic, I cannot order it, as they will not deliver an actual book to Mexico. SusunW (talk) 14:02, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Whoa. You are the first person to invest me with such "power". The DYK rules are very specific and when I review nominations or promote them to prep, I try to make sure the hook meets all requirements so it will proceed smoothly to the main page (and, even then, won't get pulled at

WP:ERRORS

). It would be instructive for me to see exactly which of your hooks I "pulled" after they passed all the guidelines.

As a new DYK editor, Rob has asked me for guidance on various nominations. On your Yucatan municipalities nomination, I was only relating the nomination to the DYK guidelines as I understand them. In my comments, I also linked to the comments of the more experienced editors who commented on the issue on the WT:DYK talk page. There's no need for them to also post on the nomination page; their comments on the policy were quite clear. I'm sorry you see this as some kind of cabal. If you decide to get involved on the reviewing end, you'll get a better idea of the mechanics of DYK reviews. Please don't take it personally. Yoninah (talk) 20:07, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Surely you jest? scroll through DYK and you will see tons of them. I first started feeling like a specific target of yours with Template:Did you know nominations/Esther Seligson I remember it because it was blatant and there wasn't even an apology. But they aren't just mine. It is crazy how many of these get pulled for the wording of a hook. Just like I cited above, the comments are opinion in that page you attached with Rob's query. I don't keep lists, but here's another Template:Did you know nominations/Hilda C. Heine. The day I approved that one I saw no less than 10 pulled back for nearly identical reasons. No where in the guidelines does it say you or any of the promoters have to like the hook and no where does it say that the article has to get thousands of views. I have no problem with following the guidelines, I have a serious problem with the assertions of POV as to what is interesting, what will get sufficient hits, etc. That is not part of the guidelines and drives editors away, which truly seems to be what you all want to do. It is not a welcoming environment and certainly not one where any coaching happens. *This* was a travesty Template:Did you know nominations/Emily C. Gorman a brand new editor's first submission. All it would have taken was a few seconds to help rather than leave it hanging for nearly ten days. SusunW (talk) 20:39, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't see that I "pulled" any of the hooks you cited. In DYK parlance, "pulling" means removing a hook from a prep set, a queue, or the main page. While the hook is still on the nomination page, anyone can comment on it. What I neglected to do in all 3 cases, and which I have started doing since then, is prefacing my comment with "Hi, I came by to promote this, but ..." so my comment doesn't come across as unfriendly. In each case, I was rechecking all the review criteria to make sure the hook would move along smoothly in the DYK process (see previous comment). Anyone who reads through my comments on those 3 nominations will see that I spoke politely. Regarding

bad faith. Even the nominator acknowledged that my comment was helpful

. And what are you accusing me of with the 10-day interval? We are all volunteers here and do have other lives to lead.

In terms of hook quality, there have been many discussions on the

DYK project talk page about making hooks more interesting. I try to suggest better hooks to improve the project; if the nominator doesn't agree, I back off. This just happened today. You really must reread WP:Assume good faith. Yoninah (talk

) 21:33, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Maybe you have changed your approach and I haven't seen it because as I said, I stopped doing DYK because the environment was so unpleasant. This nomination did not lead me to believe that anything had changed, starting with the comments (not made by you) that the hook was not interesting. I accused you of nothing, I said to her we all failed her and we did in my opinion. It was her first nomination, which to me would lend to her getting a little "extra" help. There is no apparent guideline for welcoming first nominations on Wikipedia, they just get processed and if something hangs up it's up to the newbie to figure it out. DYK is not a collaborative environment in my experience, so again, I am taking myself out of it. SusunW (talk) 22:13, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Hey Susun! don't be discouraged! Ping people you know for reviews, and strength in numbers. Some people around here can be unpleasant, but give it a little break and then dive back in! You are doing great work! Montanabw^(talk) 08:33, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

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Akil Municipality

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Cenotillo Municipality

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María Teresa Ferrari

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Río Lagartos Municipality

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On 10 August 2015, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Mariam Ghani, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Brooklyn-based digital artist Mariam Ghani is also the daughter of the president of Afghanistan? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Mariam Ghani. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

The article María Teresa Ferrari you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:María Teresa Ferrari for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Montanabw -- Montanabw (talk) 04:41, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Great news, thank you! - You can list nominations

here also, DYK? (DYK only in special cased, like urgent or complex) --Gerda Arendt (talk

) 08:24, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations! GA target is now Amelia Bence!♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt and Dr. Blofeld: It's not urgent. I'm going to wait a few days and enjoy that its approved before I jump into the DYK snake pit. ;) Yay! Dr. B. I'm thinking I added everything I had access to to Bence, but if you need me to complete redlinks or research specific things, let me know and I'll be glad to try. SusunW (talk) 15:34, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

That's why I picked it, not much research work left to do and give you a break! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:48, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps I was not clear: Do list your next GA noms there. Don't list every DYK, - that would get too long, - just those needing extra attention. I liked "my" cantata today, - for the better hook see my talk, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:43, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

This is what a "harv error" looks like. This one is in Dzidzantún Municipality. Ask the Help Desk how to install the file you need to have these errors show up for you. They show up in RED after the file is installed. You should get it so you can see the Harv Errors and fix.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:24, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Doug Coldwell I don't even understand what that is. Is this some kind of programming message? I have zero, and I do mean zero, technical skill with Wikipedia. I write, I research. I am not a programmer, know zero about code and find it tedious that writers are expected to know that on here. What help desk? SusunW (talk) 21:45, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

No, not programming = well, maybe a little "Wikipedia skills". It shows up if you messed up on a "sfn" reference. Then you look around that "inline reference" and you will eventually find the error that you made in not putting it in correctly. The Help Desk can be found by looking at the main page of Wikipedia -> under "Other areas of Wikipedia". You should get this file, install it, and learn then how to find these errors. Example is the picture I sent you -> I don't think there is a Perry 2002 reference source for the inline reference to source to. Just some more Wikipedia skills to learn. Good luck.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:56, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Doug Coldwell I'm still confused. I don't know what an sfn reference is. I didn't put a "Perry" reference in the file, so even if I find the help desk, I would have no idea how to fix it or reference it. SusunW (talk) 22:10, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Doug Coldwell I have no idea how to find stuff on Wikipedia and truly do not have the time to waste hunting for stuff. I think I found the book on Google, checked out several pages and they tie to the reference pages. I'll fix the references the only way I know how. I am not remotely interested in learning programming and am not going to. SusunW (talk) 22:20, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict} O.K. I'll get you started. In Dzidzantún Municipality under History the inline references for #4,#5, #6 have p.26, p.20, and P.44 for the "sfn" inline references. Somebody put those in and I thought maybe you since you are the main editor for the article. There should be a source for Perry under maybe Bibliography. That's why the RED errors show up. Its a skill you have to learn sooner or later. Why not sooner. Ask the Help Desk for the file that shows up "Harv Errors" and they will help you. You do need it! It is NOT programming, just basic Wikipedia skills = like what Dr. Blofeld and Nvvchar have. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:24, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Doug Coldwell It's already done. I may not input them the way others do, but my notes always show up correctly and if I have red errors I am able to fix them. I have diddly squat idea how to input most things on here. The instructions were written by programmers. I once read 6 pages with every single one telling me it would tell me how to make the change I wanted to make and none of them did. It was all a bunch of before you do this, see this. Before you make a change. Once you have changed it. But zero, here are the steps involved. That is way too stressful and a waste of my time for me to deal with. SusunW (talk) 22:31, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Susun, can you use the nice location svgs like I've done here. You'll find them on Spanish wiki. Looks a lot better than the other one.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:00, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I actually like the colors and the regions showing, but it's Wikipedia so if someone wants to put the grey one there they can, but, if we change which map, have to go to all 93 that have been created and change the map. SusunW (talk) 16:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

The most important thing is that the map illustrates where something is. The coloured ones don't immediately do that and can confuse readers with all of them.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:07, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld as always, your argument is logical. I hate the grey ones, but I guess there is no better option. *meh* At least I can use the new one they fixed on the main municipalities page. SusunW (talk) 18:10, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld I am changing the 14 on the DYK nomination to those grey ones, but I would like the descriptions to stay as the region. I am going to try to finish the last 12 of these this month as I am really, really worn out with this project. This is the third time I have had to go through all of them and fix things because of a programming change or jurisdictional change. I was going in to them all and fixing the ones I didn't write too but I really just want to be done with it, so may just leave them for sometime next year ;). SusunW (talk) 18:42, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that on a few of them it takes me nearly 30 seconds to actually find the municipality you say is #076 or whatever, when a simple municipal highlighter I wouldn't even have to click the map to find it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:11, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld Yes, I get it. As I said, I'll change them, AFTER I finish creating the rest of the municipalities but then I'm done. Someone else can plug in the 2015 elections when the results come out. I have women and haciendas that I want to do. :) SusunW (talk) 20:40, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

In the 2005-2008 era we used to have a lot of UGLY pink and red locator maps. Really horrid and amateurish looking. In comparison to the old day maps those svg ones are spiffing ;-)!♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:36, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I am not changing the map captions. That was one of the things I already had to go through all of them for. Someone changed the style midway through writing the articles from Municipality of XXX to XXX Municipality. It screwed up all the stuff typed into the info box, the nav box, and all the links within the articles themselves. Of course the person who did it did not correct the stuff, and since I was in the middle of the project I fixed them. I see no reason that the map captions need to change. I don't own these I could care less what changes people make, but if their changes effect the articles I am in the middle of creating, it'd be nice if they'd mop up after themselves. Belle was great in that she did change every article and fix the map captions after she changed the regions, so I really see no reason to change them again. SusunW (talk) 22:46, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld I just got a whole slew of messages from whence I deduce that all the changes from Yucatán to Yucatán (state) (another one of the changes that happened mid stream and I had to correct each file for) have apparently disappeared. It has ceased to be entertaining and is becoming extremely frustrating that I cannot even get them finished before someone does something that effects all the others. Head banging on the wall might be less frustrating. SusunW (talk) 23:37, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Cas Liber (talk · contribs