User talk:TheSLEEVEmonkey

Hello, TheSLEEVEmonkey, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

You may also want to complete the Wikipedia Adventure, an interactive tour that will help you learn the basics of editing Wikipedia. You can visit the Teahouse to ask questions or seek help.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! NiciVampireHeart 19:54, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Recently you entered 'Ponzi scheme' in Wikipedia's voice into the lead of this article. The strongest language I could find in the Globe and Mail was that Banayoti "acknowledged using investor funds not to invest in mortgages, as he told investors, but to cover operating costs and make payments to previous investors." Please consider undoing your edit and putting back 'allegedly'. Generally Wikipedia does not like to use primary government documents as sources, such as the settlment agreement that he signed. It is better to have the description of his misbehavior filtered through WP:Reliable sources so we can rely on their judgment of what terminology to use. It also makes it easier to defend the article if it is challenged, for example on BLP grounds. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 16:11, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for your input.

I added the term "ponzi scheme" directly in to the lead section as it seems to be the most notable thing about the subject.

As to specifically the use of the term "ponzi scheme":

*This source^[1] by Daphne Caruana Galizia is one of a few articles in which she uses the term directly (there are others on her site)

*This source^[2] has the following phrase

Golden Gate's former in-house counsel, Milton Chambers told W5, "It appears as if all of the money was used in the classic Ponzi scheme – in which new investors were paying out old investors."

*In the Globe and Mail source you mention, immediately after the phrase you've quoted, the text says: "The story echoes one that many fraud victims recount" (emphasis mine).

*An additional Globe and Mail source^[3] states the following:

Settled with the OSC after engaging in the "illegal distribution" of securities and then using the money to make deposits in related companies' bank accounts or payments to other investors.

I'm happy to look at phrasing it differently if that's the right thing to der per Wikipedia policy, however given that we have two sources which use the term and given that the other sources reference how investor funds were used to pay other investors, which is the defintion of a ponzi scheme, I thought it was the most correct way to summarize the sources.

The alterantive would be to say something like "It was reported that Banayoti ran a ponzi scheme and defrauded investors through his unlicensed Canadian investment company Golden Gate Funds LP which sold investment products illegally . He entered into a settlement with the Ontario Securities Commission in 2009, in which he acknowledged that his company did sell investments illegally, and used investor funds not to invest in mortgages, as he had told investors, but to cover the operating costs of Golden Gate Fund LP as well as affiliated companies and to pay back other investors, as well as investors from previous investment schemes. As part of the settlement, he agreed to pay $4.7-million in financial penalties".

However at this stage surely we're beating around the bush just for the sake of it?

What are your thoughts? TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 16:42, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The actual long quote that you use above has two disadvantages: (a) 'it was reported' doesn't say who did the reporting, and (b) it is possibly too long for the lead.

If you want to use those sources to describe Banayoti's behavior, then it is better to quote the actual sentence from the source article. Note that the report by Daphne Caruana Gallizia is mostly a direct quote from some other publications so you should cite them instead. One of them it ctv.com which is probably reliable; CTV says they did their own investigation. If you want to use that, attribute the 'ponzi' statements to the people who actually made them. For example the former attorney for Golden Gate, but that is quite a long quote.

If you made your own interpretation that it's a Ponzi scheme, it can sometimes be questioned as

WP:Original research. It is better to have a reliable source that says 'Ponzi scheme' and then attribute the conclusion to them. I'm writing here as an admin who is hoping to fend off future trouble because there is a set of editors (possibly including some socks) who are likely to push back indefinitely on any negative conclusions in the article. If we have to defend the article as not violating BLP then everything has to be super-well referenced and supported. As an alternative to saying 'Ponzi' in the lead you could use a vaguer summary there such as 'financial misconduct', and mention that he entered an agreement in which he admitted certain things (assuming he did admit them). EdJohnston (talk) 17:56, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply

]

Ok, this makes sense. It's been reverted so I'll leave it as is for now while I try to think of a better way of formulating the intro. Thanks for your input and patience! TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 13:42, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Seeing your revert of a sockpuppet IP on the

Thank you for your helpful introduction to Wikipedia!

I am wondering why you thought I might have a conflict of interest, though?

Plopatries (talk) 15:33, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this kitten! I certainly did not mean to assume bad faith on your part. The article in question has been heavily edited in the past by what appears to be people connected to its subject. As your edit summary mentioned that the subject's charitable work extends beyond Israel, even though the source does not mention this, I thought perhaps you knew this personally as you might also be connected somehow to the subject. So to err on the side of caution, I thought I would highlight the

WP:COIEDIT

guidelines.

TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 15:48, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm new to editing on Wikipedia and I appreciate your input. However, I do wish to query your excision of the following:

(1) Forman's attendance at Trinity College, Cambridge, during 1982-85 is verified on the subject's own LinkedIn page, which I cited when adding this information. Doesn't this qualify as a trustworthy source?

(2) A swastika was spray-painted last year on the side of Forman's Fish Island, which houses not only the business premises of H. Forman & Son but also the studio of J-TV: The Global Jewish Channel. In view of the anti-semitic associations of the graffiti, I thought this was worth mentioning. I take your point that the reference I inserted elsewhere to Oliver Anisfeld's establishing this YouTube channel might be interpreted as unrelated and unnecessary promotion and am happy to accept this excision, but I really think the presence of the J-TV studio at Forman's Fish Island is important enough in the context of this incident to merit a mention, especially in view of Forman's own insistence that it was an anti-Brexit rather than an anti-semitic statement.

(3) The direct quotation from Forman referring to his move from the DTI to a business career in 1992 - "at the DTI [Department of Trade and Industry] you are mixing with business leaders but at the DSS you are having to spend your time with the poverty lobby." - seems relevant to understanding his decision to quit government employment and I don't see why it shouldn't feature on the page.

(4) Forman is a self-declared Libertarian and I thought this was worth mentioning in the context of his views on "reducing the size of the state" and removing "red tape".

I look forward to your response, and thank you in advance!

Godsmanschmodsman˜˜˜˜ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godsonshmodson (talk • contribs) 18:02, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Godsonshmodson and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you enjoy editing and decide to stay! Thanks for reaching out and please don't hesitate to do so going forward if you have any questions. So you know, if your questions relate to a specific article, these can also be done on the "Talk Page" of the relevant article by adding a new section, like here for Lance Forman.

Firstly allow me to apologize if any of my edit comments seemed harsh or confrontational - I contribute on quite a few pages which attract a large number of

WP:PROMOTION issues, the article for Lance Forman

included, so please know that it is nothing personal against you or your contributions.

I hope I've answered your questions and look forward to editing with you in the future! TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 11:10, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why secondary sources? Surely the best place to have credible information is the actual place the news originally came from instead of a website that could easily misinterpret the information? Kranitoko (talk) 11:24, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reaching out. You should check out the Wikipedia policies and guidelines.

In particular see:

WP:RSPRIMARY

.

But it's a good idea to look at all the major content policies and guidelines.

Feel free to reach out again if you have any other questions. TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 11:41, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not only per the books but also per the series, the ones that are destined to each other are Geralt and Ciri by destiny. I've removed your addition since is innacurate. Before editing again, please discuss your changes. Best regards. Miaow 17:23, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your input, Miaow. Firstly, the whole section which you added is uncited so shouldn't even be in the article. I decided to add to it rather than revert it in the hope that it would be improved over time, though I see you have not offered the same courtesy to me.

As per the books and the series, Geralt and Yennefer are tied together through the Last Wish of the Jinn. The ending of the Netflix series makes clear that Ciri is somehow tied to Yennefer too - this is indeed the twist of the first season. However, it doesn't matter, because this whole section which you added is entirely uncited, so it's original research and needs to be removed. Cheers. TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 18:15, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What you added is not a real plot and is a copyright violation, plot summaries should not be copied from elsewhere and plot summaries can be sourced from the works themselves per W:MOS, in those articles we don't need sources when we have the series, just as we don't need it to the characters descriptions in all articles about series, movies, books, etc.

What I said is about the ones that are destined to each other, not about the people they will find in their adventures. What you said about Geralt and Yen is because of a spell, not about destiny; so you are right, i never said otherwise. This is stated in both books and show. That was i tried to tell you. It's not the same the ones that are destined to each other and Geralt's wish to the Jinn to make their lives tied together with Yen which means they will share their adventures because of the spell as per the show, but you added "In his adventures Geralt also meets Yennefer, a sorceress, to whom he and Ciri also become tied by destiny" but "by destiny" is not accurate since the show and even the books never stated that (the only ones that are destined by destiny itself are Geralt and Ciri) but it's because of a spell they all will share most of their adventures/lives together with Yen since Geralt linked her to them throught a spell when using his wish. Meanwhile, books and show states Ciri is Geralt's destiny and viceverse when they didn't even know each other, It's because of destiny they are linked, destined and "will always finds each other". It's because of a spell Yen is connected to them, "the last wish". That's why I tried to tell you when I said your addition was innacurate. Best regards. Miaow 01:25, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

P.S: also, i didn't tried to be rude or something like that when I reverted your changes before, so my apologizes to you. Miaow 01:37, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]