User talk:TheVirginiaHistorian/Archive 4

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You asked how to break the logjam. Is there a logjam? What is the logjam? Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I don't see what the logjam is. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:28, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, a logjam is a mass of logs blocking a river's flow threatening its navigation downriver. Often at Wikipedia postings are so rapid and continuous I am left behind as I generally post only once or twice a day. At the mediation, mediator Sunray made a posting not long ago which had one response for a week, her latest had one response over three days among six? editors in mediation. --- so, with infrequent and partial postings from the group, it seems as though there is a logjam holding back the stream of posts at the mediation. --- In a way, you just proved me wrong, thanks for contributing. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 13:25, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

.

Thanks for your thoughtful question. I feel bad because I've lost track of what the conflicting proposals for text to be replaced are in the territories dispute. I know there are huge legal implications for the people living there, and some of them are based on vague and ambiguous laws where the text that ends up appearing in places like Wikipedia might affect their lives, access to welfare and healthcare resources, etc., so I do know it's important, but it seems to me like it has been splitting hairs in meronomy. I agree TFD often doesn't bother with sources when imposing a subjective "common sense" and I could scarcely believe his apparently sincere suggestion that representing popular opinion was more important than representing reliable sources. Can you please show me a diff where you think he's removed a legitimate improvement to the article? EllenCT (talk) 16:23, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

All I ask for is a fair hearing for various editors who repeatedly come to the U.S. page and try to copy edit the lead sentence as Seqqis recently did, noting that the territories are left out. By a 3 to 1 majority the Dispute Resolution of 2013 proposed and the Request for Mediation of 2015 is working on language including modern islanders within the U.S. national jurisdiction, political framework, geographical area, -- despite the anachronistic constitutional arguments describing the United States of 1901 of judicial fiat which no longer pertain to modern day American islanders. Most recently, it was Golbez who reverted Seqqis edit Diff. [1], Seqqis: “The territories were left out”, Golbez Diff. [2], Golbez: "rv two edits: one, there's a discussion going on right now whether or not to include the territories, ...” -- I might have asked for a source rather than refer to a procedure which is confidential, but Golbez is a fine administrator who has brought the article to GA status. My primary concern is to improve articles with sourced contributions.

The thread at U.S. talk was opened to explore any objections to the source which is being used in the request for mediation now addressing the geographical scope of the lead sentence -- apart from disputes about the constitutional status of the U.S. territories. Given six experts supporting a reliable U.S.G. source which I shared on the U.S. Talk page, TFD said experts do not include islanders constitutionally. But that is non sequitur anachronism (not racism as he defensively protests he is not a racist and I do not mean to imply he is one). The constitutional holding has been gutted by subsequent Congressional acts post-WWII.

TFD reminds me of my high school friend, a member of Mensa with a photographic memory who had a hobby of taunting me with non sequiturs. TFDs hobby seems to be chiming in wherever I go to muddy the waters regarding including contemporary islanders as a part of the U.S. in some political sense. For instance at Reliable sources/notice board Diff [3], where he notes sources say that in 1901 Insular Cases began judicially making territories not “a part of the United States” … by withholding citizenship, elective self government and delegate Member of Congress as “dangerous” to the American republic. But he refuses to concede that Congress had made any law post WWII regarding contemporary islanders citizens with elective self governance and a delegate Member of Congress. There is no counter to the six modern scholars including the five major territories, only his anachronistically applying what the Supreme Court did do in 1901 — which it undoubtedly did then in a racist fashion — to the 21st century islander -- including those of Northern Mariana Islands who chose constitutional "political union" with the U.S. by UN supervised plebiscite in the 1980s.

Now there are still serious problems. While the poorest American Samoa is better off than the island-nation of Samoa, admitting hundreds of family members yearly, the richest Puerto Rico has half the mean income of the poorest state Mississippi. The EPA has required Guam to clean up WWII military hazardous waste in dump sites at territorial expense. Problems.

Puerto Rico or DC might gain statehood as 60% favored it in the last plebiscite with 80% participation (and another is scheduled), but it is unlikely that any of the others will unless they join another state such as Hawaii for the Pacific islands or Florida for the U.S. Virgin Islands. So, I would favor using the Organic Acts to make delegate Members of Congress extra-constitutionally voting Representatives in the House immediately. And were PR to become a state, as it is larger than 20 smaller states in population, it would gain four seats in the House, so it should receive that count by Organic Act as well. DC is larger than only two states, it would still have one representative. Senators to follow statehood. But I have drifted of the topic of the lead sentence sourcing. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 08:50, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Give me a few days to read through Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/United States (331 KB!) which I was unaware of until today. EllenCT (talk) 14:41, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I am fine with the most recent proposal and sad that TFD hasn't been participating in mediation very frequently. There is no way I'm going near the intro, though. All of my efforts are going to be suggesting proposals to consolidate the economy section to reflect the declining real incomes of the middle class and the reasons for them in a more accessible way. On reflection after reading through that mediation, that section and it's subsection are terrible. EllenCT (talk) 21:28, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the fact-check. I found the collaboration to cutting the history section difficult, but I think the economy section requires similar consolidation as well. I wish you well, and will chime in if I think I can help. I think that the scope discussion overlaps a bit where the U.S. reports some economic data internationally based on 50 states, DC and Puerto Rico, so consistency of the 50/DC aggregation alone for data bases should not be arbitrarily enforced by WP editors. Most important relative to the stability of the page is that the issue of constitutional status of DC, the territories and possessions not be addressed, since they are various, ambiguous and unfortunately contentious. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 11:39, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi, TheVirginiaHistorian, I noticed your revert, would you be so kind as to explain exactly what I did wrong in your opinion? Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 07:24, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to chime in here as I've noticed that many of the NPS links are not working anymore. (Lovely collection of HTTP 404's with their logo, and occasionally an NPS Apology Page--their name, not mine.) This now includes the ABPP summaries which stopped working in the past few days. I've had little luck in getting such things repaired by the NPS in the past. I'm in favor of using the written paper page numbers and such with paper cites rather than these completely unreliable NPS web page links. NPS IT seems to be in the habit for randomly scrambling them. Red Harvest (talk) 22:09, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Agree. I'm slow getting back, life intervened.

The map/illustrations probably could bear reducing as Lotje successfully did.

But references should be open coded in standard English so the citation stands, even if the link is broken in the future. The previous edits reduced

• Fort Pulaski – National Monument, National Park Service Historical Handbook Series, “General Lee Returns to Fort Pulaski” (1961). down to http://[http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/hh/18/hh18f.htm. and
• "Fort Pulaski National Monument, National Park Service Historical Handbook Series (1961). “Significance of the Siege” down to http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/hh/18/hh18m.htm.

I did put in a try at reworking the link placements. I’m still not sure it is fixed right. I would appreciate Lotje giving it another go on the illustration sizing. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 11:17, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

You are invited to join here. If you are interested in joining, please visit the project page, and add your name to the list of participants. New members may introduce themselves on the talk page .

We have lots of work to do! CookieMonster755 (talk) 00:48, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Ping has been spotty for me lately, but I replied to you. Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:35, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi. It might make sense to have a table like:

Territory	US Citizens	US Nationals	Territorial Member of Congress	US District Court	Constitution supreme/criminal trial juries	Pres Declration Y	ETC	ETC
Puerto Rico	Done	Done	name	United States District Court for the District of Puerto Rico
Guam
US Virgin Islands

...and so on and so forth whatever makes sense - all refernenced for easy viewing. If you made that, I think it will be easy to understand for RfC. Just a thought. Alanscottwalker (talk) 00:40, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

United States Territory	Geographically, US national jurisdiction	US Citizens/Nationals	Estimated population	Territory in Congress (Delegate MoC)	Local self governance	US Constitution supreme	US District Court	Presidential vote
District of Columbia	Done	Done 1801 US citizenship	658,000	Done 1971 Ms. Norton	Done 1975	Done Congressional Organic Act	Done Fed'l Dist Crt - DC	Done 1961 Constitutional Amendment
American Samoa	Done	Done 1904 US nationals	57,000 (≈ 1% territorial population)	Done 1981 Mr. Faleomavaega	Done 1978	Done Territorial Constitution	AS Supr Ct; DC or HI	citizenship under litigation at Supreme Court
Guam	Done	Done 1950 US citizenship	159,000	Done 1973 Ms. Bordallo	Done 1972	Done Congressional Organic Act	Done Terr'l Dist Crt - GU	while resident in a state
Northern Mariana Islands	Done	Done 1986 US citizenship	77,000	Done 2009 Mr. Sablan	Done 1978	Done Territorial Constitution	Done Fed'l Dist Crt - MP	while resident in a state
Puerto Rico	Done	Done 1952 US citizenship mutually agreed (1917 citizenship by Congressional fiat)	3,667,000 (≈ 90% insular territory population)	Done 1901 Mr. Pierluisi	Done 1948	Done Territorial Constitution	Done Fed'l Dist Crt - PR	while resident in a state
US Virgin Islands	Done	Done 1927 US citizenship	106,000	Done 1973 Ms. Christensen	Done 1970	Done Congressional Organic Act	Done Terr'l Dist Crt - VI	while resident in a state
uninhabited possessions	Done	Citizenship by blood, otherwise not decided in the courts for Palmyra	n/a	n/a	n/a	Done fundamental provisions	various	n/a

Links and dates to follow. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 07:17, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Is that Constitution column US constitution? If so add US. Population needs its own column (or different date from the other but would be clearer in own column - and your parentheticals need better clarity). For PR wasn't citizenship earlier 1917 or something; courts need links (also one of your links does not seem to be working). Alanscottwalker (talk) 11:21, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

A file that you uploaded or altered,

Thanks. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 04:53, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		Thank you for your contribution to a successful mediation. Sunray (talk) 06:37, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

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Hi TheVirginiaHistorian, I noticed that since this edit there are several list defined reference errors in the bottom of the reference section, because they are no longer being used. If you are sure they are no longer required then you could either comment them out or remove them. Cheers. CV9933 (talk) 09:47, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello TheVirginiaHistorian, I've left some comments over there, but I thought this one was probably more of a usertalk type of comment. Feel free to

One of the map-triplets that was in your recent set, is the electoral college map. This excludes the territories, which is of course a touchy subject at the moment. Point being, although it is correct that the electoral college vote itself excludes the territories from participating, it is not the case that they are excluded entirely from the presidential election process. The major parties, at least, specifically include the territories in their national conventions, with voting delegations allocated mostly based on population (so the territories are relatively tiny when it comes to voting for a potus-nom and a vpotus-nom at the RNC and DNC conventions). However, the territories are also represented in the national RNC and national DNC membership bodies, which set the rules for potus campaigns: debate invite criteria, ordering and tempo of the state-by-state caucus and primary balloting, rules for which delegations from each state will be accepted when there is a factional battle at the state-party-level, and so on.

  Point being, rather than using a map of the electoral college, which nowadays when 99.9% of the time the nominal 'members slash voters' of the electoral college are required by law and/or by tradition to vote the party line, I would suggest instead putting forth the map of the voting-strength allocated to each geographical region at the major-party conventions. The rules for delegate-allocation change all the time (cf the national RNC body), and since the 2012 convention the rules are actually able to be changed *between* elections by the national RNC body, no longer needing approval from the full convention delegation. So take these wikilinks with a large grain of salt: here is the calculation-guide for delegate-allocation according to the (now outdated) 2008 party rules:

  Anyways, since you seem like you might have the skills needed to make an alternative map-instatiation, which shows the delegation-allocations from the states and territories and DC which contribute to the major-party-nominee-selections, which are distinct from (and arguably more crucial than) the modern electoral college splits. Once the general election rolls around, the swing-state voters are the deciding factor between team R and team D, and at that point, although it is true that none of the territories are directly participating, it is also true that the majority of the *states* are not participating either. In the 2000 election, only Florida and Ohio mattered, in picking Bush v Gore. However, at the earlier stages, when Bush and Gore were still gathering support to become the party nominees, territorial input was a non-negligible factor. In 2016 it might turn out to be a very-much-crucial factor, depending on how close the Republican race is to a photo-finish and a brokered convention. In any case, I think the states-and-territories delegation-strength-map, as opposed to the electoral-college map (or the color-coded-and-population-sized variant thereof), which are not as germane to who *picks* the two presidential nominees, as opposed to which swing-states pick *betwixt* the two nominees. I'm happy to help with number-digging and whatever else, if you want to take a crack at this delegate-style U.S. map. Thanks, 75.108.94.227 (talk) 20:36, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

I am an aficionado of cartology, but Golbez is one editor with map making experience. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 08:08, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

others interested in us congressional map making include Kurykh, Kelvinsong and Magog the Ogre. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 07:54, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

More opinions are needed on the Grant talk page. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 19:44, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

I will continue the TJ review. Please note, I have moved all discussion about the removal of content to the talk page from the review. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 23:32, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

You mentioned you had an interest in Virginia stamps. Any chance you could help me find a source for the sentence "Jefferson has been honored on U.S. Postage since 1856, and was the second president to be featured"? Right now it's cited to "Scott Stamp Catalog, Index of Commemorative Stamps", but there's no page number, link, year, etc., so it doesn't seem to meet verifiability requirements. On the other hand, I don't know anything about philately, so if this is a sufficient reference already, just let me know and I'll remove the tag. Thanks! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:57, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

The 1856 Jefferson US 5c. is noted at Arago: people, postage and the post, the website for the Smithsonian collection, [4]. The 1847 Washington US 10c. [5]. We have an article,

U.S. presidents on U.S. postage stamps with a section on Jefferson for reference. As I say, I am not in favor of replicating that section in our Jefferson article as as been done at George Washington. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk

) 13:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. And wow, that is out of control at George Washington. For Jefferson for now I'm just leaving in a single sentence on postage and a single sentence on currency, which shouldn't be too bad. After the GA review is done, we can compare to some FAs to see if even those two sentences should go. -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:39, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for that Virginia Stamp and your compliment on the Jefferson work. I am more grateful for its prompting me to visit your user page...now I understand the sources of your striking expertise! I am also a proud Virginian (in Richmond). If you haven't read it, I think you will very much enjoy the article on George Tucker...quite an interesting character. Thanks again and I look forward to future collaboration! Hoppyh (talk) 21:31, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi, TVH. In response to your comment of 29 Dec., I don't have an "'I-just-don't-like-it' (West Point) point of view." We established on the talk page that the bill creating West Point was not a significant event in TJ's presidency. It is appropriate, as I've pointed out numerous times, to United States Military Academy and more so to History of the United States Military Academy.

The dialog was anything but collegial: Gwillhickers' behavior is difficult to work with, as you can see on the talk page. I objected to what I called his Donald Trump approach and pointed out his "comments to Hoppyh [were] an unfair and insulting diatribe." His response was, I find your comments, petty, hypocritical, overlooking the fact that you have behaved in a far worse fashion, barking orders, making deletions with no discussion at a time when the article is already unstable. My "combative" remark was in response to Hoppy's accusation that I was combative -- and all you are accomplishing here is widening the gap and trashing the talk page with this peevish nonsense. Nothing collegial there. He finds Hoppyh combative! Sheesh!

I was as unaggressive as Hoppyh is for years at this article, but that produced no progress. Insisting on what's right hasn't either, so I have to bail out. As Hoppyh noted ( 22:15, 29 December 2015 ), there's no agreement on the basic editing philosophy. As long as Gwillhickers continues to behave as he has for years, it's pointless to try to improve the article or waste time discussing it.

I've appreciated most of your participation and felt I may owe you an explanation for my departure. Your most recent opinions have disappointed me but I could work with you on them. Unfortunately, Gwillhickers' behavior doesn't permit fruitful discussion. YoPienso (talk) 21:31, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

As you know, this is nothing new. YoPienso (talk) 21:35, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Please remember that the article failed GA because of edit-warring and "a failure to understand the summary style criterion" and quote/paraphrase troubles. Yet Gwillhickers refuses to understand summary style! He rudely rejected my best effort to teach him. Your proposal to write a whole paragraph about West Point seems to me to militate against summary style.

This is nothing personal--Gwillhickers made a kind comment to my Christmas greeting. It's his editing philosophy and talk page behavior that makes editing at TJ frustrating for me. Although I will say I take Gwillhickers' rudeness and prevarication personally. YoPienso (talk) 21:54, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

I hope you take this departure as a break and not a permanent non participation status. wow that was convoluted.

What was established was that West Point as an academy was not the West Point of later years, it was more or less an engineering school to begin with, and so not significant as a military academy. But it was not a bad place to begin for a defensive-minded president -- before explosive projectiles could break apart defensive structures like Fort McHenry (Star Spangled Banner). That did not take place until the Civil War at the Siege of Fort Pulaski. An article which I wrote from a stub but have not been able to advance. I really am more hopeful for Thomas Jefferson.

And I tried to concede the smaller point on West Point, but to make the larger point of Jefferson's wide ranging executive department reform to make it responsive to elected administrations at the peaceable transfer of power. The water's are muddied because some say Jefferson won the presidency in the House by promising not to make a clean sweep of Federalist appointments, and as matter of principle, after an election majority has chosen, "we are all Republicans, we are all Federalists". But I appreciate your scholarly depth, however we may disagree.

In any event, I sincerely hope to hear from you again in the New Year. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 09:19, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

History of West Point : and its military importance during the American Revolution, by Captain Edward C. Boynyon -- Scroll down for download options. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 20:28, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 15:02, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I really don't understand why you encourage that person. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 21:31, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi. I was not familiar with the

Thanks. Including them would return to my belief that the Civil War should be treated as a "war of brothers" for Virginia as well as the conventional treatments for Tennessee and Kentucky. I made many of the image gallery contributions for Union participants and civilians on both sides at Virginia in the American Civil War. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 04:36, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello, and thank you for your support of my reverted edit of the Second Amendment. It's hard to fight the myth that the amendment means the unequivocal and absolute right for individual gun ownership as originally written; this is a new idea promoted by the NRA in the 1970s which gained momentum in conservative circles over ensuing decades and was given legal underpinning by the 5-4 Supreme Court decisions

The upshot of the Court opinion on the case is that only weapons that have a connection to a well-regulated militia are free from government regulation, and that the amendment does not proscribe the regulation of firearms by the Congress. Sixty-nine years later, Justice Scalia, the adamantine evangelist for the originalist view of the Constitution, spends 64 pages in the Heller opinion engaged in verbal circumlocution and hypocritical subterfuge upending his standard beliefs to make "a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" mean what he wants it to say rather than what it was likely commonly believed to mean at the time of its composition. It's always difficult to fight what people want to believe against what is contrary to their beliefs but is in fact the truth. If people today want the Second Amendment to mean the ownership of firearms regardless of consequences to public safety or the infringement of other rights guaranteed in the Constitution, that's fine, but please do not use the Founding Fathers or the legacy of 19th and 20th Century judicial opinions to support your views, because that support is simply not there. PJtP (talk) 01:35, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@

United States Constitution has been sent there. This is good material, and important for any those with an "original intent" interest. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk

) 09:51, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

This philosophy espoused by those who favor such a reading of the Second Amendment equates the militia with today’s National Guard. However, since the National Guard of various states can and has been federalized many times, why would the framers think it necessary that a right be enumerated which apparently enables the federal government to protect itself from itself? If Congress does not desire to restrict the usage of this or that weapon by the National Guard, then all it would have to do is not do so. I fail to see the logic.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 21:58, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

@PJtP and HistoryBuff14:The state militia, as explained in Federalist Paper 29, is to be trained and armed so as to effectively complement regular U.S. army troops to defend against all enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic.

In Switzerland with universal military service, all men from 18 to 60 maintain weapons in their home for immediate call up and integration into the standing army. IMO, if you are not mentally competent to serve six months active duty training in the U.S. National Guard, you should not own a weapon. I understand that Americans are more liberal than that, but the modern interpretation of the Second Amendment justifying accumulating automatic assault weapons of the enemies of the United States such as AK-47s, is illogical for any American patriot. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 00:25, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Viewing the wisdom of the Second Amendment in historical hindsight is not the issue. The issue is what is the effect of the amendment. The framers did, after all, give us a constitutional amendment process which has all too often been usurped by the courts who rule by fiat exactly as an autocratic Russian tsar of yore would have. The entire idea of the Bill of Rights was to restrict the power of the federal government. Maintaining that the Second Amendment applies to the rights of the federal government is disingenuous.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 13:41, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

The effect of the Second Amendment is to establish well regulated state militias in conjunction with standing U.S. armed services to defend the country in its states and territories against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The intent is not to overthrow the U.S.G. monopoly of military coercion within its jurisdiction, promulgating private militias without federal or state electoral control. The idea is to have a peaceable, secure republic, and avoid the kind of tribal militias subservient to unelected local rulers as now is found in Iraq, which is a prescription for unending civil war or strong man rule. Rather, the National Guard under the authority of state Governors is constrained by constitutional officers of the people in each state, or when nationalized as provided by the framers of the U.S. Constitution, by the constitutional officers of the U.S. Government.

This provision for nationalizing state militias was objected to by Patrick Henry in the Virginia Ratifying Convention of 1788, but he was outvoted. The framers provided for an amendment process by the American people if you are persuaded as Henry was. But Henry, when he saw he was defeated in Convention, resolved to live peaceably under the adopted Constitution. Of course, he did not go quietly, but led the majority of Anti-Administration party against Washington and his Federalists in the next session of Virginia legislature, so Virginia's first two U.S. Senators had been Antifederalists. But that is another story. If I were for widespread gun ownership, I would be particularly insistent that the safety training available in the National Rifle Association was made mandatory, similar to driver's license requirements, including both written examinations and practical tests on a firing range.

The framers gave the American people the amendment process which in the Fourteenth Amendment applies the Bill of Rights to limit state governments in regards to due process and equal protection under the law. The state legislature corruptions led to the loss of their power to appoint U.S. Senators, so as not to corrupt the national councils in the Seventeenth Amendment. These are not usurpations, they are enactments of a sovereign, “We the People” of the United States in two-thirds of both the people in the House of Representatives, two-thirds of people in the states represented in the U.S. Senate, and three-fourths of the people in the states by their state legislature or by direct popular referendum. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 15:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

The upshot of what you have written, as I discern it, is that the Second Amendment is an entirely superfluous amendment in that it does not restrict federal power in any way and all that has been done in its presence could have been done just as well by federal legislation in its absence. If not, why not? If so, then why did the framers bother with it?HistoryBuff14 (talk) 17:15, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

No, the Second Amendment guarantees that the states will never be made defenseless by action of the national government. They will be able to furnish their own protections against armed insurrection by a domestic enemy, but those state militias will be under civilian control of the electorate of a republican form of state government, to oppose any domestic enemies such as private ethnic tribes, combinations or gangs who seek to overthrow the will of the peaceable suffrages of the people. Further, it is to be used in conjunction with the Constitution's Article I, Section 8 relative to Congressional powers over state militias, and Article II, Section 2 relative to Presidential powers over state militias. -- No Amendment of the Constitution is to be parsed without reference to the entire document. The reconciliation of the various provisions is left subsequent Acts of Congress which are Supreme Law of the Land as it explains in Article VI, and to the judiciary as established by Article III, Section 2. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 23:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

"Today, the term militia is used to describe a number of groups within the United States. Primarily, these are:

• "The organized militia defined by the Militia Act of 1903, which repealed section two hundred thirty-two and sections 1625 - 1660 of title sixteen of the Revised Statutes, consists of State militia forces, notably the National Guard and theNaval Militia.[2] The National Guard, however, is not to be confused with the National Guard of the United States, which is a federally recognized reserve military force of the U.S. Army and the U.S. Air Force, although the two are linked.

•"The reserve militia[3] are part of the unorganized militia defined by the Militia Act of 1903 as consisting of every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who is not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia.

•"Former members of the armed forces are also considered part of the "unorganized militia" per Sec 313 Title 32 of the US Code.[2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_States)

All these years I never realized that I personally, as a veteran, am part of the “unorganized militia.” (It must certainly be unorganized as even I didn’t know I was a part of it!)

Look, I appreciate your obviously highly educated opinions on Constitutional matters, but I’m afraid we are at an impasse as I apparently side with your illustrious favorite son Patrick Henry. To call today’s National Guard the “militia” which is referred to in the Second Amendment renders the amendment meaningless due to the clause allowing the federalization of it by the president. You seem to be asserting that the amendment guarantees the existence of an armed National Guard of the states but since control of it can be taken away from the states by the federal government at any time without the consent of the states renders it a virtual adjunct of the U. S. armed forces. Therefore, it seems absurd to maintain that the intent of the amendment was to guarantee to the federal government the right to arm its own military; and even more ludicrous, to guarantee to the federal government that it cannot forbid itself from doing so. An amendment was needed to assure that?

Furthermore, you wrote: "No, the Second Amendment guarantees that the states will never be made defenseless by action of the national government." How does it do this when the National Guard can be federalized without the consent of the states thus leaving them defenseless by action of the national government by your logic that I quoted above?HistoryBuff14 (talk) 17:05, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for adopting a reasonable tone with me, this disagreement is truly interesting. I knew that all commissioned officers were on the hook for the rest of their lives to serve at the pleasure of the President, I did not know that enlisted were also as a part of the “unorganized militia”, but it makes sense to me in the same way the Swiss organize themselves. That call up scenario needs to be written into the screen plays for movies of U.S.A. Commie takeover by the Ruskies and their domestic minions. It might help increase active participation in American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars local chapters, which would in turn provide greater local community support for returning veterans of today.

The assumption that the federal government can make illegitimate war on the states without consent of their constitutional officers lawfully acting under the authority of the people of the United States is mistaken. The National Guard is federalized by the request of state governors when a state of emergency is declared, or rarely when a local faction high-jacks the institutions of state government to oppose due process or equal protection under the law for all its citizens as required under the 14th Amendment. That Constitutional Amendment of the United States has been duly ratified by both the people in Congress and the people in the states, and upheld in both federal and state courts. It is "established law".

See Federalist No. 10 on Faction. The intent of Union is to ensure liberty to all American citizens even when an illegitimate faction is temporarily a state majority. All states will be republics under the rule of law, there will be no ex post facto laws in the states (as well as the federal government), etc. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 13:41, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

I have nominated George Tucker (politician) as FA candidate. I thought you might be interested in looking at the nom and commenting on/supporting its nomination. I would be most grateful for your time and effort. Regardless, thanks for your past collaboration(s). Hoppyh (talk) 20:23, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your time and effort...would be delighted to look at the "HARV warning" but need some enlightenment. Hoppyh (talk) 13:14, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

The warning is located in “External links”, Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFUnited_States_CongressT000397. When you to to edit toggle and search on T000397, you find under “External links”, {{CongBio|T000397}} This is the code generating the error message. I do not know why, since the code takes the reader to the proper page referenced with a click. I substituted "United States Congress. [http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=T000397 George Tucker], [[Biographical Directory of the United States Congress]]." and the error message went away. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 15:14, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

foundations of the US

Thank you for your stellar work on articles related to the history and politics of the United States. Your contributions are deeply appreciated; indeed, you are an awesome Wikipedian!

Sainsf (talk · contribs) 07:23, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Congrats! On a side note, you may be interested in Talk:John C. Calhoun/GA1, we have some debate going on there. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 07:23, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

You have

Apologies, I cannot find the reversion for your reference. I apologize. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 16:38, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

In that case, I trust you will withdraw your public accusation. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 16:49, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Apologies, I cannot find the reversion for your reference. I apologize. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 16:38, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

In that case, I trust you will withdraw your public accusation. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 16:49, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Very well,  Done TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 17:38, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi! I'm disappointed at your recent bloviation at Thomas Jefferson. How is that supposed to help anything? It's utterly wrong for the article to ignore the prevailing revisionism in Jefferson scholarship. YoPienso (talk) 13:04, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Here are The official records of Robert Dinwiddie, Lieutenant-Governor of the Colony of Virginia, 1751-1758, in five volumes. Apparently they are a sizable account. e.g. Vol.1 is 610 pages; Vol. 2 is 806 pages; Vol 3 is 1192 pages long, etc, all downloadable in PDF and other formats. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 03:32, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Wow. This is the kind of source I want to drill down into for better knowledge of Amerindian relations. So much has been lost in modern account summaries that merely gloss over the distinctions among tribes and Native-American nations, their changing relations with settlers, governments and one another. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 03:36, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Had a feeling these works were gonna ring your bell. While working on the George Washington page I kept coming across Dinwiddie in my reading and research. Apparently some historians (and others) blamed him for fomenting the French and Indian Wars. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 04:32, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

A history of the valley of Virginia,
(1833) Samuel Kercheval; Charles James Faulkner; John J. Jacob -- Gwillhickers (talk) 05:10, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks!

inappropriate. Best thing is to simply post a link along the lines of Template:Please see without going into too much detail. You might also want to consider posting something at the RfC itself to let others now who you have notified and how you notified them, just to avoid any misunderstandings, before someone else beats you to the punch with a claim of canvassing. -- Marchjuly (talk

) 10:39, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Done. Thank you for the introduction to Template:Please see. As I have had no interactions with editors at Wikiprojects at Numismatics, Graphic design, Visual arts and Video games notification there should not be a problem. My interactions with editors at Wikiprojects Philately have generally conformed with opponents of the proposal such as Masem, so notifying them cannot be construed as canvassing for support, rather notifying is in the interest of broadening the discussion. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 05:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Just to clarify, notifying others is not really the problem, but the way you notified them might be seen as one. If you simply posted something such as "There's a discussion at XXXXX regarding YYYYY. All interested editors are welcomed to comment" then nobody could mistake that for canvassing; however, your "notification" also includes statements such as "While a majority of one is found in earlier discussions ...." and "Support would ...." which are things which may not be seen as exactly neutral by those who feel differently about this issue. If you click on your Watchlist and look at the very top, you'll find two very neutral (bland) examples of RfC notifications which are only a single simple sentences with a link to the RfC. That's pretty much all that is needed with this kind of thing. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:03, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the follow up. At each Wikiproject, under the header "RfC", I used

Discussion at Wikipedia talk: Non-free content#RfC for NFCC#8 exemptions for currency and USPS stamps

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk: Non-free content#RfC for NFCC#8 exemptions for currency and USPS stamps. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 06:35, 2 August 2016 (UTC).

Just for future reference, the "Please see" template will automatically add a section heading beginning with "Discussion at..." followed by a link to Wikipage you added as a parameter ( i.e., the relevant discussion) as you can see above, so there's no real need to manually add one. In fact, it might be a bit confusing to so so. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

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Grigsby

DYK these books were in the PD? :

• ISBN 978-1-4589-2204-5.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link)

-- Gwillhickers (talk