Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 12

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October 12

Category:Kyiv offensive (2022)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:59, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:C2D HappyWith (talk) 23:51, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Northeastern Ukraine campaign

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:Northeastern Ukraine campaign

Category:Exoplanets discovered by Kepler

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. All articles are already in the merge target.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:18, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category. SevenSpheres (talk) 15:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, all articles are already in the existing category. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:10, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlastertalk 23:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Amesbury Public Schools

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: manual merge.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:05, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:NARROW. Manually merge the eponymous article. –Aidan721 (talk) 23:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:LGBT deities

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:LGBT deities

Category:Lawyers in British India

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:Lawyers in British India

Category:Television series written by Umera Ahmad

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:58, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Convert Category:Television series written by Umera Ahmad to article Television series written by Umera Ahmad
Nominator's rationale: I think that this category should either be deleted or converted into an article. there are no other categories like this that I could find in the style of Category:Television series by writer Mason (talk) 00:02, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Other categories use "created", not "written", so renaming should be considered. Janhrach (talk) 16:48, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 13:42, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

talk 23:07, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Christian abolitionists

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Christian abolitionists

Category:Sports teams and properties owned by David Blitzer

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Matches the title of the corresponding navbox template. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 16:07, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Where to rename?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:36, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't tagged, btw. CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:37, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:British police officers in India

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Should be merged with Category:Police officers in British India and renamed Category:Police officers from British India Mason (talk) 01:17, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 05:02, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:29, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Slave owners from the Kingdom of England

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:56, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: trivial intersection Mason (talk) 04:05, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Outcome must match Category:Slaves from the Kingdom of England below.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:38, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Slaves from the Kingdom of England

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:57, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: trivial intersection Mason (talk) 04:05, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Television series by Fox Television Animation

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:Television series by Fox Television Animation

Category:Expatriates from the Kingdom of Scotland

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:Expatriates from the Kingdom of Scotland

Category:Writers from the Kingdom of Scotland

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge "Foos from the Kingdom of Scotland" to "Scottish Foos".
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:55, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: overlapping category where the intersection with political regime isn't defining Mason (talk) 21:01, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Oey Family of Karawaci

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete all.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:53, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Small cat without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 20:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:FitzWilliam family

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:53, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: although it does have a corresponding eponymous article, there's only one family member in it Mason (talk) 20:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Immigrants to Ireland (before 1923)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:53, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Overlapping, under populated, category Mason (talk) 20:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Show business families of the Netherlands

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: dual merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:14, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: small cat, should be dual merged Mason (talk) 20:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:People from the Principality of Schaumburg-Lippe

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: overlapping category Mason (talk) 20:08, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:14th-century Russian princes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:30, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 9#Category:13th-century Russian princesses. NLeeuw (talk) 08:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The subjects were princes of regions in Rus, not Russia (which was not the name of a state until over three centuries later).  —Michael Z. 19:23, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:53, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per Mzajac. As also stated in Kievan Rus', these were not Russia. - jc37 00:45, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The argument that these people were not Russian is very debatable. Article Kievan Rus' states in its first sentence that it was an amalgam of principalities [...] from the late 9th to the mid-13th century, so the 14th-century states around Moscow, Ryazan, Suzdal, Tver, Yaroslav etc. are, I believe, universally considered part of Russian history by historiography. The previous discussion ended with a merge to Medieval Russian royalty and 14th-century Russian women, and Category:14th-century Russian people exists since 2009 without contest. Place Clichy (talk) 17:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The rationale given in the cited discussion is SMALLCAT, but this 10 articles plus 7 in another child category, so it can't really be called small. @StarTrekker and Mellk: as you made the same argument, would you mind clarifying what is your position regarding the current discussion? Place Clichy (talk) 17:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes I would oppose. For Kievan Rus this ends at Category:13th-century princes from Kievan Rus' (even though it was no longer a state by this point for a long while). Mellk (talk) 20:10, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I would not support a merger at all, but maybe a split if Kievan Rus' can have its own category or similar to solve that problem.★Trekker (talk) 09:49, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Pinging @Nederlandse Leeuw for clarification on how the previous nom applies.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Talmud rabbis of the Land of Israel

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:49, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: This page should be moved both for precision and consistency reasons to use both the correct geographical name for the time period and the name that is consistent with the most closely related page on the overarching topic, which is
Iskandar323 (talk) 10:59, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Please start a talk page discussion in the article’s talk page, as well as posting the appropriate templates in the article header.
Also - disagree on your rationale. “Babylonia” is being used as a regional descriptive, and not being used in a capacity specific to time and - according to your argument - its provincial status at the time in question. Mistamystery (talk) 11:56, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@
Iskandar323 (talk) 12:02, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The parent page to this category is Amoraim, not Talmudic academies in Syria Palaestina (which itself seems to have been quietly renamed by a single person without prior community discussion).
The Amoraic period extends to 500 CE. Syria Palaestina only existed as a Roman province from 132-390 CE. It is not an appropriate new header for the category. Mistamystery (talk) 12:30, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The page
Iskandar323 (talk) 12:44, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Correct. Talmudic academies in Syria Palaestina and Jerusalem Talmud are the most relevant articles - both articles are clear what the place was called at the time. Onceinawhile (talk) 16:19, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Talmudic academies of Syria Palestine was improperly moved to begin with. The assertion that Land of Israel is anachronistic is both incorrect. and offensive as well..Drsmoo (talk) 13:13, 15 September 2023 (UTC) edit Drsmoo (talk) 14:51, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@
Iskandar323 (talk) 13:26, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
I’m not saying it was offensive, FYI. Just saying there should have been a discussion. And the page was not visited often at the time (there wasn’t a subsequent edit to the page following the name change for more than a year) so no, I don’t think there was a clear and enduring silent consensus. Mistamystery (talk) 14:44, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are over 83,000 scholarly sources on Google scholar using the term Land of Israel, including for this very subject. There are only 1,050 for Syria Palestina. The assertion that Land of Israel is not scholarly, let alone that it’s “anachronistic” is ridiculous. Drsmoo (talk) 13:23, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
How about we stick to the discussion in hand? If you want to discuss that page's name, why no go and discuss it on the page (and also stick to just the sources on the subject).
Iskandar323 (talk) 13:28, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
There is currently a move discussion at history of Jews and Judaism in the land of Israel. The final name of that page may be instructive for the ideal name here. Drsmoo (talk) 14:06, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's an entirely tangential discussion of a historical overview page, not a historically contextualised category, to an entirely separate target, so not really.
Iskandar323 (talk) 14:15, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The argument is consistent, that “Land of Israel” is non-neutral, anachronistic, religious, etc. If so, perhaps there should be a broader wiki discussion on how to handle these controversial place names. Drsmoo (talk) 14:21, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think the broad discussion on whether to use historically and geographically accurate terms or vague, POV, religious terms has been long settled.
Iskandar323 (talk) 14:55, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
In this case, the term Syria-Palestine actually is, and has been described as such in reliable sources, anachronistic. Drsmoo (talk) 15:13, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The neutral term used in scholarship is Levant or Southern Levant. Drsmoo (talk) 15:15, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't that page discussion. This is about a category for 200-500 CE Talmud rabbis that lived in Syria Palaestina - where is the anachronism?
Iskandar323 (talk) 16:37, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Scholars discussing the Jerusalem Talmud, written by the 200-500 CE Talmud rabbis in this category, use the contemporary name of the region that they lived in. That is what we do in our article, and should do in our category. Onceinawhile (talk) 17:50, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Innocent question: why is Syria Palaestina the most appropriate name for the article title (insofar as we are going by Roman territorial designations, which is a another matter unto itself) if the province ceased to exist in 390 CE (yet the period we are discussing stretches well into the 500s)?
Is it because the Jerusalem Talmud (ostensibly the collective focus of the Talmudists in question) was completed in a window of time mostly under the purview of the SP province? (350-400 CE)?
If we are to go by Roman provincial definitions (which I think also demands a discussion given that we are discussing indigenous activity under the banner of colonial place names (See:Decoloniality), then why are we not merely saying “Roman Palestine” if we are to cover both Syria Palaestina and its successor provinces?
Not trying to be a time traveler, or too presumptive, but given the generally established relationship between the Roman Empire and the Jewish population at the time, I think its a reasonable assertion that if any of these Talmudists were asked at the time “What land are you doing this work in?”, their answer would likely be “Eretz Israel” or “Yehuda” (see
Bar Kokhba Revolt coinage
to get a clear glimpse of how the local population reasserted native place names during their attempts to repel Roman colonial authority) Just as well, their answer would likely not be the name of a province established by the very imperial entity whose destruction of their capital city and religious center necessitated the creation of the very Talmud they were working on.
Not sure how to handle questions of coloniality in this matter, most especially given that many of these place names and designations have lived on and evolved in a way that creates a significant amount of contemporary tension. Wish we had a larger talk page to work through all the protocols around this so we can arrive at a general consensus on naming standards on all these intertwined articles being discussed and debated.Mistamystery (talk) 00:16, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Syria Palaestina didn't go anywhere in 390, it just split into Palaestina Prima and Palaestina Secunda, a somewhat trivial nuance of historical adminstrative history that is guaranteed to be lost on most casual readers. You could in theory use Roman Palestine as an overarching header for this period, but given that almost all of the rabbis lived in the period when it was Syria Palaestina, and the most formative developments also took place in that period, i.e. the writing of the Palestinian Talmud, it is a bit of a technicality that for the last 100 years of this 400-500 year period the governing entity was administratively split.
Iskandar323 (talk) 06:10, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:57, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(now blocked as a sockpuppet)
—A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 03:45, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:18, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rename per C2D. Qwerfjkltalk 14:46, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Writers from the German Empire

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: trivial intersection Mason (talk) 15:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: 19 articles now, populated by Johnpacklambert.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:03, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. German writers and other artists should be classified by timeframe. The Empire was an important historical period in its own right and cannot be lumped together with Weimar or the Third Reich or the DDR or the Federal Republic. The category has been expanded now. PearlyGigs (talk) 23:25, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've received a message from Johnpacklambert who created this category. He has pointed out that the German Empire was multi-national and so the category must include non-German nationals who were imperial subjects. For example, as he has mentioned, there is Jakub Bart-Ćišinski who was Sorbian. This means the category has potential for considerable growth. PearlyGigs (talk) 21:09, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Re "should be classified by timeframe": there is already Category:German writers by century and its subcategories. I wonder if this new scheme will not conflict with that. Place Clichy (talk) 16:54, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Category:German writers. The German Empire (1871-1918) was a German nation-state (unlike Holy Roman Empire), and its inhabitants can be primarily called Germans. No need to create occupational intersection categories with every regime change. In case a German writer of the period is also notable for being a member of an ethnic minority such as Poles and Alsatians, they can be also categorized as that (not necessarily through an intersection). Place Clichy (talk) 07:10, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:57, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:16th-century Prussian people

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:16th-century Prussian people

Category:Tripartite Alliance

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:Tripartite Alliance

Category:Sieges by country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:17, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Like the
WP:NONDEFINING. We are interested in the participants, the belligerents, not the country in which the besieged city or stronghold was located. The cat desc says as much: This category organizes sieges by the historical states (or significant non-state entities) participating in them. Given that "non-state entities" are not excluded, perhaps belligerent or participant is better. "wikt:belligerent" does contain a connotation of the aggressors, and may thus not apply well to the defenders. Participant may sound too much like it's a fun game in which you can play along, so it might not be serious enough for the reality of war, but perhaps it is at least more neutral than belligerent. Perhaps the best might be Sieges by country involved; the word involved aligns with the Sieges involving Fooland subcategory naming convention already. Whatever we decide, I intend to use this as a test case discussion before we proceed with perhaps renaming the rest of the tree, at least if we think that's a good idea. I'd appreciate a lot of well-thought input, because I don't have all the answers and am open to many ideas how to best make this category (tree) clear, unambiguous, neutral, serious, as well as inclusive of non-state actors/entities. (Alternately, we could simply purge the non-state actors, and/or give them a separate tree). NLeeuw (talk) 20:02, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:53, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the physical location of a siege seems obviously defining (even more so than for a battle). Participants are also defining, but are (I) a different thing and (II) not necessarily countries. Furius (talk) 07:36, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Queer organizations & Category:Queer literature

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:Queer organizations & Category:Queer literature

Category:Songs written for film

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:50, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: The term for this is "composed", per
animated film. - jc37 18:00, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:37, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:36, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Serbia and Montenegro

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:52, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Propose renaming and re-parenting to the tree of Category:Serbia and Montenegro
Nominator's rationale: rename follow-up on
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia redirects to Serbia and Montenegro. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:11, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
  • And this CFD also mixes a political discussion of the official/common name of the country and the names of their sports teams, which don't necessarily have the same CFD outcome for the common name. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:07, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The thing is, the state is the same only name was changed at one point, from Federal Republic of Yugoslavia to Serbia and Montenegro - of course, with constitutional changes that have no bearing on the issue at hand. So, basically the last name of that particular state is Serbia and Montenegro. Should this be significant for the sport categories, I can't say, really. ౪ Santa ౪99° 13:17, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Using that name for football is also confusing - you can't have e.g. "Category:2001–02 in Yugoslav football‎" because then the average reader who knows that Yugoslavia broke up way before 2001 is immediately
astonished. What "Yugoslav football" when Yugoslavia broke apart in a series of deadly wars in the preceding decade? Sure, the national team from Serbia and Montenegro had a few years of international competition as the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia national team -- after the international sanctions were lifted -- but that does not matter for the categorization scheme. Categorizing the national team of the FRY under "Serbia and Montenegro football" seems perfectly appropriate and causes no confusion to readers who know the official name of the team. --Joy (talk) 19:08, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Yes, I only now realised that current existing categories are named as "Yugoslav(ia) foo-sport" not F(ederal) R(epublic) (of) Yugoslavia - that's both confusing and erroneous - I mean, I would expect, at least, that these current categories have precise name, say, "FR Yugoslav football". So, we are at least one step away from proper name for the current cats, but I agree with @Joy which means we are two steps away from it. I reaffirm my support for @Marcocapelle's nom. ౪ Santa ౪99° 19:35, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yugoslav was the correct adjective for FR Yugoslavia too. They weren't Serbia and Montenegro football team until 2003, as per every single source listed in article on the football team's participations in these years. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:21, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is fine but it is completely orthogonal to this discussion. The categorization scheme doesn't go out of its way to use ambiguous terms. To say that Oktoberfest is a
fall festival would be correct, but that doesn't mean much for the naming of Category:Autumn festivals. --Joy (talk) 18:41, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:40, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:34, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:LGBT rights in the Arab world

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:55, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:REDUNDANTFORK of what we've already got, plus the oversimplification that everyone who lives in these countries is apparently somehow an "Arab". Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 31#Category:Religion in the Arab world. NLeeuw (talk) 18:05, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

talk 23:36, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:46, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Kannada television news anchors

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:NARROWCAT, we do not need a split by language at such a detailed occupation level. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:32, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Support per nom. Mason (talk) 03:43, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Sons of Temperance

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:Sons of Temperance

Category:Kannada television journalists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: merge, overlapping categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:27, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Mason (talk) 03:43, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Kochi

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: consensus to rename , but no consensus on what to rename to. Renaming to
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:08, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Gets constantly confused with Category:Kōchi, as of right now 2 out of 5 top level category members are for the city in Japan. https://archive.ph/wip/xOmIM Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 15:30, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd rather :Category:Kochi, Japan and Category:Kochi, India ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:35, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Dr. Blofeld I think that is better too. My only concern is that that might violate some kind of naming system for the categories. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 15:36, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so, look at Category:Jamestown, Virginia, Category:Jamestown, North Dakota for instance. Category:Kochi should read as a disambiguation telling editors to place articles in the appropriate category. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:47, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Category:Kochi, India for consistent name scheme with my vote on Category:Kōchi QuietHere (talk | contributions) 19:55, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: India or Kerala?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 13:32, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Ambassadors of the United Kingdom to Cape Verde

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:08, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: as per
WP:SMALLCAT. This ambassador position is actually a non resident one. LibStar (talk) 04:47, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
OpposeComment. Small cat also says. "Note also that this criterion does not preclude all small categories; a category which does have realistic potential for growth, such as a category for holders of a notable political office, may be kept even if only a small number of its articles actually exist at the present time" Does this category have potential for growth? I don't know how the fact that the position isn't a residential one impacts growth/notability. Mason (talk) 04:49, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This also seems to follow an established category scheme. Mason (talk) 04:50, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 13:37, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:25, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:District attorneys in Cumberland County, Maine

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:08, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: No need to distinguish at the county level. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:49, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. per nom Mason (talk) 03:31, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a policy-based reason for this deletion? It sounds likes you just don't like it. There are other similar categories, including: Category:District attorneys in Essex County, Massachusetts‎, Category:District attorneys in Middlesex County, Massachusetts Category:District attorneys in Norfolk County, Massachusetts, Category:District attorneys in Plymouth County, Massachusetts, Category:District attorneys in Suffolk County, Massachusetts‎, and Category:District attorneys in Worcester County, Massachusetts‎. What is it about county district attorneys which makes this category unacceptable?--User:Namiba 13:21, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's a fair question (and I was too lazy to type my reasoning). It seemed to me that it was a non-defining categorization combined with smallcat. Mason (talk) 04:53, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep a district attorney in most of the United States is a notable political office, which is specifically mentioned at
    WP:SMALLCAT as one which can be kept despite being on the smaller side.--User:Namiba 16:24, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 13:38, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Indian journalists by language

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:43, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Same problem as screenwriters. None of these categories are nationality specific, instead they all reflect Category:journalists by language where the language happens to be common in India, and not indicative that that writer's nationality is Indian. Mason (talk) 00:12, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 13:41, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Quotients

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. I am holding my nose while making this close; I wish there were consensus to pull out of this seven week discussion. However, over the course of the past two months, the circumstances have changed drastically. It was created, populated, depopulated. All the while comments trickled in, which responded to the then-current state of the category. Only one comment from the beginning of the discussion – from David Eppstein – is applicable in the present circumstance (this is not criticism of other commenters; nobody can be expected to guess what shape the category will be in when the discussion in closed).
After two relists,
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 22:04, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Mostly unused category with no real conceptual link between the pages/subcategories; I've removed the last few entries so the category is now empty. Caleb Stanford (talk) 00:03, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 13:42, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:19, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@
Fgnievinski, @Mason, @Caleb Stanford: it's now been over 5 weeks since the nomination started, which is plenty of time for the category to be populated. For thhose who !voted delete, do you still think it should be deleted? Qwerfjkltalk 16:11, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
I was a procedural keep vote. Now that the category has had enough time to exist, I am happy to defer to folks who are familiar with how math-related categories on wikipedia. Mason (talk) 16:22, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's much better than before. However it seems to lack differentiation from Category:Ratios. Merge or +1 to defer to those who are familiar with how math-related categories on Wikipedia. Caleb Stanford (talk) 14:39, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Surnames of Jewish origin

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:Surnames of Jewish origin

Category:People convicted on terrorism charges

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:People convicted on terrorism charges

Category:British sportspeople in British India

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:British sportspeople in British India

Category:Dino Morea

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:50, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary eponymous category for a single subcategory containing two articles.
WP:OCEPON StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 16:39, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Support. per nom Mason (talk) 20:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Murderers for life insurance money

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 20#Category:Murderers for life insurance money

Category:Sports teams and properties owned by Josh Harris

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:14, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Matches the title of the corresponding navbox template. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 16:09, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlastertalk 12:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Brockhill family

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:49, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Small cat without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 01:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Donnie Yen

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:49, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary eponymous category for one other related article.
WP:OCEPON StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 00:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
support. per nom Mason (talk) 01:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:People of Lan Xang

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 11:48, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: over cat, it only has the kings of Lan Xang in it Mason (talk) 00:29, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:People from the Hanseatic City of Lübeck

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:People from the Hanseatic City of Lübeck

Category:People of the Habsburg monarchy

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 21#Category:People of the Habsburg monarchy

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