Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 March 14

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

talk page or in a deletion review

). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was retarget to

🌺 Cremastra (talk) 19:07, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

• Ontario, CA → Ontario, California  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Once again, it should be retargeted to Ontario. It seems like common sense here. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:06, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retarget – I admit that I'm from Ontario and maybe biased, but literally every piece of mail uses Ontario, CA as an abbreviation. The province is definitely the primary topic over the American city. I'm okay with the disambiguation option as well, but I think it's a disservice to readers to assume they're looking for the place in California. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I doubt you, but I'm surprised by the statement that "literally every piece of mail uses Ontario, CA as an abbreviation." In the US, I would never include ", US" at the end of a domestic address, and I never see the country name or abbreviation on domestic mail I receive. If I were mailing to someone in Canada, I would write out the word "CANADA" in full. Just curious. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 13:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Clovermoss: To fact check your above statement that literally every piece of mail uses Ontario, CA as an abbreviation, Canada Post's addressing guidelines do not use "CA". Therefore, I can reasonably conclude that your statement is false. Most mail would tend to follow what formatting the Post recommends. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:48, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe not every Canadian does it, then. But they'd understand what you mean by it, at the very least because it is incredibly common to see Ontario, CA on mail and in mailing addresses, regardless of what Canada Post officially suggests. I'm going to be stepping away from this conversation going forward because I've said my piece and this is honestly making me angry because it's a

sky is blue level conclusion around here. I think the very fact that this discussion keeps happening is proof that Ontario, CA is not an unambiguous reference to California. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 21:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

If it's as common as you claim, then it should be easy to provide examples, no? I'm really trying to find examples on my end: WikiHow shows CANADA on a separate line (no CA). Here's a Reddit thread where a few users give examples of Canadian addresses, and none of them include "CA". Here's a source showing three different acceptable formats, none of which include "CA". etc. etc. I really don't mean to upset you,

but when a claim is challenged you really ought to be able to back it up. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Here's 5 examples from a bit of Googling from mobile, could find more on PC but not got the time right now: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

It's fine to disagree, but it's common place for Canadians to see "Ontario, CA", regularly. Hey man im josh (talk) 23:27, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation). CA is Canada's two letter country code and I think the province would be the expected result for the 15 million Canadians that live in Ontario. On a lot of websites you actually only select two letters when selecting your country or they'll only display the two letters and a Canadian flag. The province is clearly the primary topic given that it's not disambiguated. But the city would still be an expected result for some, which is why I'm okay with disambiguate. The city feels like the third best target, behind the province then the disambiguation page. Hey man im josh (talk) 23:41, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since some people cannot seem to find instances where "Ontario, CA" is used to refer to the province, I've found 50 instances where it does:

Barrie, Ontario

1. https://www.ubereats.com/ca/city/barrie-on
2. https://saferspaces.ca/store/barrie-police/
3. https://www.squash.org.au/club/view/Barrie-Athletic-Club
4. https://www.barrietowtruckservice.com/roadside-assistance-barrie-ontario
5. https://chatime.ca/locations/?location=Toronto,%20ON,%20Canada&radius=5
6. https://wildwoodovens.com/portfolio/pizza-oven-barrie-ontario-ca/
7. https://www.knothouse.ca/
8. https://www.unbelievabowl.ca/ourstory.html
9. https://www.propassportphoto.com/store7491/
10. https://residential.torlys.com/store/barrie-carpet-hardwood/
11. https://ca.trustpilot.com/review/liftow.com/location/barrie
12. https://thrivespring.com/organizations/urbanpantrybarrie/
13. https://ca.linkedin.com/company/barrietoday

Toronto, Ontario

1. https://ca.linkedin.com/company/city-of-toronto÷
2. https://www.americanexpress.com/en-tr/travel/discover/property-results/dt/4/d/Toronto,Ontario
3. https://www.somethingelserecords.ca/our-lady-peace-live-at-the-el-mocambo-toronto-onta.html
4. https://ca.linkedin.com/company/torontosmayor
5. https://chystophersamuael.medium.com/panel-builder-in-toronto-ontario-ca-574df9fa0688
6. https://www.applyboard.com/schools/toronto-metropolitan-university-formerly-ryerson-university
7. https://www.discogs.com/release/27182877-Our-Lady-Peace-Live-At-The-El-Mocambo-Toronto-Ontario-CA
8. https://globalbridge-edu.com/seneca-college-york-campus-toronto-ontario-ca/
9. https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/wm193V1_Casa_Loma_Toronto_Ontario_CA
10. https://allevents.in/toronto/aew-forbidden-door-live-on-ppv-toronto-ontario-ca/200024289853947
11. https://www.locanto.ca/toronto/ID_6575961424/PLC-Programming-in-Toronto-Ontario-Ca.html

Ottawa, Ontario

1. https://ca.linkedin.com/company/city-of-ottawa
2. https://dominicanu.ca/
3. https://ca.linkedin.com/company/us-embassy-ottawa
4. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_routes/1802-perimeter-of-ottawa?lang=en
5. https://actionnetwork.org/events/womens-march-ottowa-ontario-ca-httpbitly2hjhtu9-2?source=widget
6. https://solarific.co/ca/ontario/ottawa
7. https://www.employmentservice.sl.on.ca/fr/node/59
8. https://www.styleseat.com/m/search/ottawa-ontario-ca
9. https://www.ubereats.com/ca/store/healthy-planet-unit-b10-ottawa-ontario-ca-k2t-1b9/ESZ2c-E7UgKy3j3_XuIUBQ
10. https://quicktask.com/featuredjobs/gazebo-assembly-ottawa-ontario-ca-3/
11. https://chatime.ca/store/ottawa-somerset/

Hamilton, Ontario

1. https://www.emedevents.com/organizer-profile/mcmaster-university
2. https://www.linkedin.com/school/uwaterloo/
3. https://www.crsautomotive.com/what-to-see-in-hamilton-ontario-canada/
4. https://ca.linkedin.com/company/city-of-hamilton
5. https://ca.linkedin.com/company/hamilton-family-health-team
6. https://en.perto.com/ca/hamilton-6433/firstontario-concert-hall-63940/menopause-the-musical-2-cruising-through-the-change-10346291/
7. https://chatime.ca/store/hamilton-downtown-hamilton/
8. https://www.lgbtqandall.com/resources/clarity-restored-counselling-and-therapy-hamilton-ontario-ca/
9. https://accsell.my-ubertor.com/Properties.php/Details/217
10. https://www.emedevents.com/canada-medical-conferences/ontario/hamilton
11. https://www.propassportphoto.com/store7366/

General references that seem to always use "Ontario, CA"

• Expedia
• WeatherBug
• Ebird
• Mappit

These, among many, many, other examples, are part of why it's a reasonable expectation for Canadians that this redirect would lead to the province. Sorry if formatting is bad and that it's just links, but I did this from mobile. Hey man im josh (talk) 01:24, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most of those aren't reliable sources, and while a lot of those links don't work or don't include "Ontario, CA" in any way, those that do match "Ontario, CA" when searching the page for that term are only doing so as part of the address specifying the city, none of those are referring to the province itself as "Ontario, CA", it's part of a larger address specifically referring to a city, and is never used on its own and never used to refer to the province, so that's not evidence that the redirect should point to the province when it's not used that way in reliable sources. - Aoidh (talk) 04:48, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Someone gets you 50 links that use "Ontario, CA" and you dismiss them as unreliable sources? It's the usage here that counts, not whether the link is a RS. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 07:26, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I already said in the comment above, the reliability of the sources was not the only issue, and indeed wasn't even the primary issue. Many of them don't even include the term, and none of them use this redirect's title "Ontario, CA" to refer to the province, not a single one. I checked each one. It is indeed the usage that counts and still no source, reliable or otherwise, has been provided that refers to the province as "Ontario, CA", the closest we get is partial matches in town-specific terms, like "Toronto, Ontario, CA", which is not the focus of this redirect while references to the city match the redirect term exactly and unambiguously. The data does not support the claim that the province is ever referred to using this redirect title, and the WikiNav data does not support the claim that readers are confused by the redirect's target. My intention was merely to point out the issue with, for example, some of sources listed not even including the term, but I think I'm past the point of commenting here too much so I'll leave it at that. - Aoidh (talk) 09:20, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reliability is entirely irrelevant, I'm not using these as sources in articles. I'm demonstrating that "Ontario, CA", is something Canadians see regularly. They're contextually perfectly valid. I could actually post hundreds of more examples but I had thought 50 would be adequate to show that we do frequently see that formatting. Also, to be clear, you're incorrect about the links not working or not including "Ontario, CA". If you ctrl+F you'll find at least one usage on every one of those links. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:22, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation) as a {{R from incomplete disambiguation}}. There doesn't seem to be a clear primary topic between California and Canada with about equal numbers of people in the discussions expecting each target. Thryduulf (talk) 00:57, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation) as a {{R from incomplete disambiguation}}, per Thryduulf above. The two-letter initialism "CA" can be a postal code for California or an abbreviation for Canada, and both are equally plausible in different contexts. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep (with retargeting to the dab page as a second choice). Most anyone looking for the Canadian province is just going to search for plain "Ontario", which is of course the PTOPIC for the plain name. But with the ", CA", the standard postal address for the city in California? It should point to the city in California. There's already a hatnote pointing to Ontario, for anyone who is confused enough to search for it this way. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 01:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Striking my second choice for a dab retarget. On second thought, this makes everyone click through twice, which isn't great. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 01:21, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  CA is the standard postal address for the country of Canada, too. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:33, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Mailing addresses would be disambiguated to the city level, e.g. "Toronto, ON" or "Toronto, ON, Ca" or even "Toronto, Ontario, Ca" but it would not be "Ontario, CA" by itself. - Aoidh (talk) 01:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Addresses are often listed different ways. I'm on mobile right now, but looking at the top 5 LinkedIn pages of Ontario cities by population, they all include "Ontario" instead of "ON" and "CA" instead of "Canada" at the end of the address. Hey man im josh (talk) 03:48, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Nothing has changed since the last few discussions, and there's certainly no evidence that there has been any shift in usage. While CA sometimes refers to Canada in certain contexts, and Ontario is a province in Canada, the exact phrase "Ontario, CA" itself is used in reliable sources to refer to the city in California, not the province in Canada. Both now and the last time this was discussed last year I could not find any instances of "Ontario, CA" being used to refer to the Canadian province, but if such instances do exist they are by far an exception. To change the redirect target to suggest that "Ontario, CA" is used to refer to the Canadian province would be inaccurate and misleading and does not reflect usage in reliable sources. Usage in sources show that the Californian city is the clear and unambiguous primary topic for this exact phrase. - Aoidh (talk) 01:22, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  "They are by far the exception" – Try searching for city name, Ontario, CA. I just did it with my own city and several others, you'll find thousands of examples. This type of format is why there would be such a familiarity and assumption by Canadians that "Ontario, CA" is associated with the province. It's also the ISO 2-letter country code for Canada and, as someone from the province, I get a lot of mail with "city name, Ontario, CA" on it. Hey man im josh (talk) 02:44, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This isn't a proposal for any redirect related to "[city name], Ontario, CA" any more than it is about the phrase "Ontario" itself, which of course the province would be the primary topic for. Each redirect stands on its own merits, and if the argument is that the redirect should target the province, then there should be evidence that "Ontario, CA" refers to the province rather than being included in a string related to a city. Throughout now four RfDs nobody has been able to provide a single instance of "Ontario, CA" being used to refer to the province, therefore then the city in California is the primary topic for this redirect and the current target is the valid one, and the hatnote at the top more than adequately addresses any edge cases where there may be confusion due to related terms from partial matches in mailing addresses. I can't find any instance of "Ontario, CA" referring to the province itself; when reliable sources use "Ontario, CA" they are referring to the city, and the redirect currently does and should continue to reflect that demonstrated usage. - Aoidh (talk) 02:54, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  You won't find "Ontario, CA" because everybody includes more than that in their addresses. It's about the expected result when you search a term. In this case, Canadians who have regularly seen these types of addresses would naturally, and quite reasonably, assume that the version without a city would be referring to the province. The number of people who are aware of the town of Ontario is significantly dwarfed by those who see and use "Ontario, CA" every day while referring to the province. Not to mention international folks who would assume, based on the consistent 2-letter usage of "CA" for Canada, that Ontario, CA, would be referring to the province. Hey man im josh (talk) 03:21, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The issue is that assumption is not backed by any evidence whatsoever of even a single instance, whereas usage for the city unambiguously and overwhelmingly is, and that theoretical confusion is already addressed by the hatnote, alleviating any concern such confusion would bring while still accurately redirecting to what reliable sources mean when they use the term "Ontario, CA". Also it was very quick to find international sources that use CA to refer to California, so the assumption that international readers would assume CA=Canada is not reflected by sources either. Reliable sources should be used over

  bludgeon the discussion. - Aoidh (talk) 03:25, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  What do you believe the purpose of a redirect is? I believe it's to redirect people to the expected result. In this case, it's ridiculous to draw a conclusion that Canadians who see "Ontario, CA" regularly as part of larger addresses should somehow not associate that with the province after essentially being trained to do so. As such, the expected result, for myself and a large number of people, is the province. That's why the dab page makes the most sense, if not the province itself. Hey man im josh (talk) 03:42, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It is to redirect people to the expected result. How though do we determine what result is expected? Given that not a single reliable source, even Canadian ones, use this term for the province, that's an unlikely edge case barring evidence to the contrary, and for that edge case there is a hatnote. Canadians (being ~2% of English speakers) possibly confusing the meaning of Ontario, CA (and that confusion is not reflected by sourcing whatsoever) is not an issue due to the hat note and is not cause to change the redirect target without evidence that it's a more likely target, which there isn't any. By actual redirect clicks, WikiNav shows it's not something people are being overly confused by, especially when looking at how people are arriving at Ontario. - Aoidh (talk) 04:11, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think your wikilink about the redirect being not "what comes to mind" supports the province being the target, actually. Per the example given at that page:

  What first comes to your mind when you hear the word Java? It may be coffee or a programming language, but the primary topic belongs to the island with over 150 million people living on it.

  Ontario is a province with 15 million people, the American city has a population of 175,000 and is likely not what the average reader typing "Ontario, CA" is looking for. You cite just one newspaper article using the commonly used abbreviation for California as a state and while I'm sure you could find more, I could also find countless examples of CA being used in reference to Canada as well. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:51, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This redirect is not Ontario, nor is it CA, but very specifically "Ontario, CA" and every instance of the specific term "Ontario, CA" used to refer to something in reliable sources is only used to refer to the city in California, it's not even an issue of which is more commonly used, there's zero evidence of the province being referred to as "Ontario, CA". The city is the primary topic for this specific term as shown through sources. The point about what CA may mean internationally is that it's a grey area and assumptions shouldn't be made as to what people think when they see "CA", though not directly relevant as again this redirect is a very specific term and has only one meaning in reliable sources, and while it's not unreasonable to expect that there will be readers that expect a different result, that's an issue that already has a solution. - Aoidh (talk) 04:11, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm genuinely perplexed that you think that there's zero evidence out there for the province itself being referred to as Ontario, CA and that reliable sources only ever talk about the American city exclusively. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 04:25, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Do you have reliable sources that refer to the province specifically as "Ontario, CA"? I can't find any, let alone enough that would demonstrate confusion. The city mailing address makes it part of a term that makes sense in that context, but that partial match is not the term itself and the province is never the subject of those addresses. - Aoidh (talk) 04:27, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Before I do so (I want to avoid showing numerous examples you might discount as irrelevant) can you elaborate a bit more on what exactly you mean about partial matches? Because neither is really the term itself, is it? Afterall, Ontario, CA is either an abbreviated version of

What I mean is that a source uses the exact phrase "Ontario, CA" to refer to something, for example the city itself, news organizations, the FAA (though an American entity) all use "Ontario, CA", the exact term being discussed here, to describe the city with no disambiguation used or needed. I can find no evidence that the same is true of the province itself, and per the WikiNav link above readers are not being confused by this either. - Aoidh (talk) 06:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the Los Angeles Times is fair to use as an example here. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 06:54, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's perfectly reasonable as it demonstrates usage, but here's one that's not local at all. Do papers in the province of Ontario use "Ontario, CA" in the same way? - Aoidh (talk) 07:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with Liliana, I think the Los Angeles example is fine. Thank you for finding sources that are more specific than the last one (I'll give some examples of what I mean when I'm less busy today). I wouldn't say that particular usage is really used by papers within Ontario to describe Ontario, so that is a different usage. I'm more inclined to disambiguate this now. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 11:20, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm on my lunch break so I haven't had time to dig much (will have more time later), but I did find this page in a book that expresses the concept that the exact term of Ontario, CA can indicate the province, as the international travel website Expedia assumes that this is what one is looking for if you use that exact phrase as a search term, with the American city being the very last option provided. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That example is expressing that given the query Ontario, CA there is a 99% chance that the user means Ontario, California, so giving Canadian results first is not well-designed UI. -- Tavix ^(talk) 16:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The author's argument is that it isn't well designed UI but I think there's a reason Expedia uses it like that. Regardless, the author's answer is also in an American specific context. They state that if you ask any American, they'd be expecting the city, their location data indicated they were American, etc. It's easy enough to flip that argument around to apply to Canada: if you ask any Canadian they'd expect Ontario, CA to lead to the province. Hence why the incomplete disambiguation idea is probably the best one. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:35, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well the author argued that the UI is so bad that it would have had to have been designed by a robot, so I really don't think it's making the point you want it to make... Also, the second part of your reply is a

fallacy of the converse. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:38, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

It's not a fallacy if it's genuinely true. Ask any Canadian what "Ontario, CA" means and they'll say the province. I've come to the conclusion that the disambiguation idea is the best one because of Thryduulf's rationale, it's reasonable for people to expect either of these results. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:26, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retarget to DAB page as per Thryduulf. CA can easily stand for either Canada or California, meaning that CA is quite useless as a disambiguator. Since we can't tell for certain which page the user actually wants to go to, we need to go to the DAB page. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 05:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since this is getting contentious, I'm going to refine my take on this:
This is a very contentious and controversial topic, with accusations of americentrism, canada-centrism, et cetera. However, I'd like to point out three things:

• One, that the only person who feels that it should be fully retargeted seems to be the nominator, and that everyone else seems to be either wanting to keep the existing target or retarget to the DAB.
• Two, that retargeting to the DAB would be best as it offers up the least amount of harm and surprise in every scenario.
• Three, that this doesn't even matter in the long run, as both targets already have hatnotes pointing to each other, with the province pointing to the DAB and the city pointing straight to the province.

My vote remains at retargeting to the DAB, but these hatnotes add another place we should add this-- to Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars/Redirects_and_disambiguation_pages. Y'all are getting this worked up over basically nothing. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 09:59, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Retarget to disambiguation page, per the reasoning that both uses are valid; we should of course try to eliminate links that use this redirect where possible. FWIW, the BBC and Guardian both use "Ontario, CA" to refer to the American city, not the Canadian province. SounderBruce 08:22, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget to disambiguation page, as per Thryduulf and others. We shouldn't expect readers outside North America to be familiar with either state or country postal codes. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 13:37, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, especially per BDD's evidence in the 2015 discussion. This is a common format for American cities, but not for Canadian provinces. Perhaps most tellingly, the other Canadian redirects of this format (eg:
  Quebec, CA) were not created until during last year's RfD. If this were a common way to search for Canadian provinces, you would think someone in the last twenty years of Wikipedia would have thought to create it, but instead it took an RfD prompt to do so. Also, can anyone show evidence of "Ontario, CA" being used in prose to refer to the Canadian province? -- Tavix ^(talk) 14:05, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Upgrading to Strong Keep after doing a deep dive on the topic. In fact, I would go as far as to claim that the format "Ontario, CA" unambiguously refers to the California city. I have yet to find any evidence of the Canadian province referred to as "Ontario, CA" and I have tried. On the other hand, this redirect has 29(!) links that all refer to the California city. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:26, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming "Ontario, CA" always refers to the city in California is one of the most Americentrist takes I've ever read. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 22:58, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not an assumption, it's a conclusion I've reached after multiple hours researching the topic. If you have evidence showing "Ontario, CA" referring to the province, I'd love to see it. I'm always happy to change my opinion in the face of new evidence. -- Tavix ^(talk) 23:10, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I threw up 5 examples above that I found from a little bit of Googling via mobile. Canadians are absolutely trained to recognize "Ontario, CA", as referring to the province. Hey man im josh (talk) 23:29, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I've stricken the above. -- Tavix ^(talk) 23:32, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation). This discussion has indicated that "CA" is not a clear identifier and can be interpreted as California or Canada. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 19:34, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation). The redirect is ambiguous. A searcher copy-pasting this portion of an address could be looking for either target. ― Synpath 22:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation) per above. I can't imagine I could explain it any differently than all these other comments, so I'll just leave it at "It could refer to both so it should go to somewhere that lists both". QuietHere (talk | contributions) 08:06, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation): CA can be confused with California and being used as an abbreviation for Canada is not common in US sources. (My first thought on seeing this was "there's an Ontario in California?") StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 02:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation). I'm neither USAnian or Canadian and I have to say I hadn't even heard of Ontario in California, but after reading this discussion I think there are valid reasons for both the Canada and California places so it's best to retarget to the disambiguation page. JIP | Talk 08:37, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget to Ontario (disambiguation). I have nothing to add that is addition to anything anyone else has stated already. Steel1943 (talk) 17:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

talk page or in a deletion review

).

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

talk page or in a deletion review

). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was keep. Jay 💬 06:19, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• 2024 Polish farmer's protest →
  talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete
   ] 

I suggest deleting it, because it's not grammatically correct redirection to an old name of this article. Karol739 (talk) 22:50, 14 March 2024 (UTC) Edit: I've made a typo, correct link for the redir is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Polish_farmer%27s_protest. Karol739 (talk) 22:51, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep both as a very plausible misspelling and a {{R from move}} (made less than 24 hours before this nomination). Thryduulf (talk) 00:58, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. I completely agree with Thryduulf's reasoning. Kk.urban (talk) 04:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Jay 💬 18:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Geneva suggestions → Geneva Conventions  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Per

This is a meme, often in the format "Geneva Convention? More like Geneva Suggestion", indicating that the one saying the phrase intends to commit war crimes. So, less an implausible misnomer, more a joke/meme redirect. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 21:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That explains the orgin at least. Is there the possibility of adding content about the meme into the article? Or should it still be considered for deletion under criteria 8 (not being used in the article)? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 22:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

could just retarget to Geneva Conventions#New challenges :^) 🔥HOTm̵̟͆e̷̜̓s̵̼̊s̸̜̃🔥 (talk・edits) 22:21, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I can't find enough information about it to get a concrete source-- the only things most search results come up with are people using the meme, or information on the Geneva Conventions themselves. Not notable enough to include in the article, which means... we shouldn't have this redirect. Delete. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 22:21, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

sounds like something max0r would say. delete as just barely not vandalism, and also as not mentioned in the target, and also as not notable enough to be mentioned in the target, and also as plain ol' innacurate cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 22:30, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't expecting RfD to get me to binge Incorrect Summary lol. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 01:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - It's a meme-derived redirect that is not mentioned in the target article and doesn't seem like a plausible search term since the meme already indicates the actual thing it's referencing. - Aoidh (talk) 04:51, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete-This is a joke based redirect that would be utterly implausible for anybody genuinely interested in the Geneva Conventions to reach. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 11:25, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Very Weak Keep, (possibly my most futile keep !vote of all time), the article can still be interpreted as, (albeit mandatory and highly enforced to avoid crimes against humanity), "suggestions". If Geneva Rules wasn't already its own topic, I think that'd be an acceptable redirect to Geneva Conventions as well. All results for this term are in relationship to the Geneva Conventions, even if only offshoots of the "suggestions" joke. For people that don't know what the conventions are actually called, and only are aware from the "suggestions" meme version, this may have a usecase. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 19:43, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I mean, the "suggestions" meme does typically drop the actual name in the setup to the joke, i.e. how I typed it out in my first comment... my own delete !vote still stands. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 01:54, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"It does drop the name in the setup" Not all the time, and that doesn't matter as long as the "Geneva suggestions" is a standalone meme term, which it is. In any case, my !vote is very weak for a reason, as I already know it's a stretch. @Lunamann: you do not need to reply to my "Very Weak" comment letting me know that your delete !vote stands. My piece is quite literally not influencing the result as I hardly have a preference. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:57, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Testicular ectomy → Castration  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I can find very little to support the idea of "ectomy" as its own word- the only thing I can find is our sister site Wiktionary's definition: wikt:ectomy. Every other resource I can find treats 'ectomy' as a suffix, not its own word. This therefore seems like a very unlikely search term. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 21:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Rename to testiculectomy - Testiculectomy is a likely search term for what is properly an orchiectomy. Searching that term on Google will include all the hits for orchiectomy for you (you may not want to click any of the links!) This demonstrates that Google already consider that one to be a likely redirect. The current redirect is not a likely search term (and, in fact, can be distracting for a couple of valid search terms). Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:32, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  welp,

  Testiculectomy exists now (it's a redirect to Orchiectomy) 🔥HOTm̵̟͆e̷̜̓s̵̼̊s̸̜̃🔥 (talk・edits) 20:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  OK then this one can go. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:11, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  tbf if you see a redirect in RFD that you think should be renamed, I suppose there's nothing stopping you from being

  WP:BOLD and creating that new redirect yourself 🔥HOTm̵̟͆e̷̜̓s̵̼̊s̸̜̃🔥 (talk・edits) 22:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  Behold, the reason voting to rename redirects is rare and hard to come by. They're-- dare I say it?--

  WP:CHEAP. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 02:01, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  @

  WP:MOVEREDIRECT if you haven't already. The argument on that is twofold. Steel1943 (talk) 22:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  I have indeed seen that one since making that comment, yes. But thank you! 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 22:40, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. Made-up term. And Hotmess created the plausible equivalent, thanks to Sirfurboy. Jay 💬 06:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was speedy delete. CSD G6 Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:56, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Mouhammed Diop(footballer, born 2000) → Mouhamed Diop (footballer)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete per

• Speedy Delete per G6-error. This is a redirect that was created from moving a page that was obviously created at the wrong title. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 19:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• ?D → Emoticon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned at the target, nor at List of emoticons. Existed as a one sentence article, for one minute, by an editor with one edit, named Muk-one, before being tagged as CSD gee-one, before finally becoming the redirect it is today. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 16:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. No emoji containing "?D" is listed at Emoticon or List of emoticons. Thryduulf (talk) 19:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• O) → Emoticon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Similarly to C), no version of "O)" or ":O)" exists at Emoticon nor List of emoticons. Unlike the technical variations with different punctuation such as hyphens and colons in title, those already have a strong correlation with emoticons. But in this case, with it being a letter followed by a punctuation mark, considering this as a letter might be safer than immediately assuming that "O)" is in reference to an unmentioned emoticon, even if the "o" might be seen as a nose sometimes. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 16:19, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Neither "O)" or ":O)" is listed at Emoticon or List of emoticons. Thryduulf (talk) 19:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• C) → Emoticon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

C) is not listed at either Emoticon or List of emoticons, nor are there any technical variations such as a hypothetical ":C)", if it existed. I'm not convinced that the letter C followed by a punctuation is unambiguously in reference to an emoticon, as there are several topics related to either C or C (disambiguation) that a parenthesis could be in reference to. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 16:13, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. No emoji containing "C)" is listed at Emoticon or List of emoticons. Thryduulf (talk) 19:25, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was speedy delete. Speedily deleted by JBW on 18 March 2024.

(non-admin closure) Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 08:41, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

• Template:Import-blanktable → Template:Row hover highlight  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This template was merged to {{row hover highlight}} after Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 July 4#Template:Import-blanktable. During the course of the merger, consensus was reached (discussion) to no longer support the class name used by this template as it was unintuitive (these templates work by enabling a css class to be used on a table). Therefore, I see this as a costly redirect given that the functionality previously provided by this template no longer works, and it is not a likely search term (did you guess that "import-blanktable" has anything to do with cursor highlights?). Nothing was actually merged from this template to the new one, so it is not needed for attribution purposes. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 16:09, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete after no more transclusions. Once the remaining transclusions are replaced by {{
  mw-datatable}} there is no longer any need for this template redirect. See: Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Import-blanktable. There are no transclusions remaining in articles. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:25, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply
  ]

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The result of the discussion was target all to List of emoticons#Shame. Jay 💬 09:29, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• - - → List of emoticons#Shame  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• - -; → Emoticon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• - -;; → Emoticon  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• (- -) → List of emoticons#Shame  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Another set of emoticons with an unexpected difference in targets. This set consists of emoticons with hyphens for eyes, but the inclusion of a sweat semicolon is what separates these. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 15:09, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given the examples given at List of emoticons#Shame includes one that has a sweat semicolon, I'd say target them all there. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 15:39, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I agree with targeting the last three to List of emoticons#Shame, but would it be a good idea to target "- -" to the dab page at "--" and perhaps adding a mention of the emoticon there? I feel like that could be more useful, but would that affect incoming links too much? ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 14:29, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, nevermind. Looking at the dab, I honestly don't expect anyone to type "- -" with a space while searching for any of the current entries on the dab. It is more likely that people are typing with an underscore, so yes, target them all to the emoticons list section. ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 14:48, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 14:26, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Stuffedies → Stuffed toy  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Stuffedie → Stuffed toy  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Stuffedy → Stuffed toy  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Does not appear on page with these names. Google searches don't seem to cough up support for any of the above being in-use terminology for stuffed toys. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 14:18, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Was heading over to the creator's talk page in order to notify, when I discovered... a memorial page. I... don't think they'll be offering any input on this one. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 14:27, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom on grounds that there doesn't seem to be a topic associated with these terms. Perhaps JuJube knew something we don't, but we appreciate their contributions to the project and honor their memory. ~ Pbritti (talk) 15:12, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: There seems to be a now-defunct plushy store site under that name, but it came afterwards and is unarchived. Otherwise, this doesn't seem a term that is used. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Jay 💬 06:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Toy bunny → Stuffed toy  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

There are about a billion different ways to make a toy bunny that isn't a stuffed toy. Plastic, metal, wood... 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 14:11, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak delete per nom. Ambiguous and unhelpful. Should've been deleted back in 2012, when it was created as a one sentence stub, instead of being converted into a redirect. Though it could refer to either Energizer Bunny or Duracell Bunny, as a "sort of" plausible search term. CycloneYoris ^talk! 21:58, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was retarget to Petz#Animals. Jay 💬 06:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Bunnyz → Stuffed toy  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Does not appear on target page. Google search results indicate a spinoff of the Petz series. History contains a page dedicated to a single non-notable rabbit plush. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 13:59, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retarget to

Dogz also targets that page. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 07:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply

]