Talk:Electricity sector in Turkey/GA5

1. Lot's of statements that don't seem to be integrated into the prose. More examples to follow as I continue this review, but an example:

   The nationwide blackout in 2015 did not greatly affect Van Province as it was supplied from Iran,[166] the EU interconnection helped restore power,[167] and more integration with other countries would increase resilience - So one single province was supplied by Iran, but a nationwide blackout is still an incredible event, why gloss over it? "and more integration with other countries would increase resilience" again, feels like a throwaway, random statement.

   Explained more about the blackout and trying to integrate other stuff better. Due to overfamiliarity with the text I will probably miss some so feel free to tagbomb with "clarify" or somesuch or mention here - whichever is more convenient for you Chidgk1 (talk) 09:21, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2. As the electricity sector in the country burns a lot of coal, the largest source of greenhouse-gas emissions is coal-fired power stations. is a bit redundant. Suggest changing to "Turkey's coal-fired power stations are the largest source of the country's greenhouse-gas emissions". Mark83 (talk) 18:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done Chidgk1 (talk) 09:21, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Basic grammar error: Imports of gas, mostly for Turkey's power stations, is, is > are. Also the wider sentence is run-on Imports of gas, mostly for Turkey's power stations, is one of the main costs for the economy, and in winter electricity generation is vulnerable to reductions in the gas supply from other countries - shouldn't be a comma after economy. Should be one after winter.

Split sentence to hopefully make more readable Chidgk1 (talk) 09:21, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. They can be balanced by hydroelectricity. I totally understand the point here. Low wind/lack of sunlight is balanced by hyrdo power. But will all readers necessarily know that?

Explained and linked to article with details Chidgk1 (talk) 07:35, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Each year, approximately 300 TWh of electricity is used in Turkey; this accounts for almost a fifth of the total primary energy consumption forgive a dumb question. So what happens the other four-fifths?

Not a dumb question - it was badly worded - if still unclear please let me know Chidgk1 (talk) 08:43, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Each year, approximately 300 TWh of electricity is used in Turkey; this accounts for almost a fifth of the total primary energy consumption[8] and a little under 2 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per person per day[9] (or 3.7 MWh per year per person according to another source) less than the OECD average,[3]: 17  but half as much again as the global average.[10] is one huge run-on sentence. Split up or simplify.

Split Chidgk1 (talk) 08:43, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Space heating and electric vehicles have the biggest potential for demand side response. - I think this needs to be explained?
2. TEIAŞ introduced without a wikilink, without spelling out Turkish Electricity Transmission Corporation, or explanation of its role.

Done Chidgk1 (talk) 07:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. The whole "Demand forecast" section is slightly rambling. Please review and consider tightening it up.

Done Chidgk1 (talk) 11:12, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. The share of electricity in industrial energy use is expected to increase at the expense of the fossil fuel share as Turkey moves to higher tech products - perhaps even overtaking gas to become the largest share at 30% - as industrial coal burning declines and oil remains static First problem is a long run on sentence. But main problem is I am really confused - so electricity is going to increase because industry uses coal and gas instead? But I'm guessing. Could this be clearer? Also "perhaps" is another WTW.

Rewrote - if still unclear please let me know. Chidgk1 (talk) 11:23, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Production and use of some types of electric vehicles, such as cars manufactured by TOGG, may increase demand during the 2020s, and Shura Energy Transition Center, a think tank, has made many recommendations about electric vehicles, such as utilizing synergies between EV charging and renewable energy integration and energy storage. another long run-on sentence.

Rewrote - if still unclear please let me know. Chidgk1 (talk) 11:33, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

More to follow as I work my way down.Mark83 (talk) 18:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. In 2021, there is a lot of excess generation capacity;[17] but from 2017 through 2019 less than 1% was exported.[18] Consumption is forecast to increase. feels like a collection of random statements, not integrated prose.

Fixed - if still not smooth now please let me know Chidgk1 (talk) 11:42, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. As of 2021 average > As of 2021, average

Done Chidgk1 (talk) 08:04, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Turkey's coal is almost all low calorie lignite, and it is difficult to burn low-calorie coal economically in very small (industrial) power stations > Turkey's coal is almost all low calorie lignite, which is difficult to burn economically in very small (industrial) power stations. The text in italics, not sure there is enough context here. Are we not talking about large scale power stations? So why comment on small industrial power generation?.

Removed Chidgk1 (talk) 16:44, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Turkey has not ratified the Gothenburg Protocol, which is the international protocol which limits > Turkey has not ratified the Gothenburg Protocol, which limits...

Done Chidgk1 (talk) 17:04, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Turkey's coal is almost all low calorie lignite, and it is difficult to burn low-calorie coal economically in very small (industrial) power stations doesn't flow.

Removed Chidgk1 (talk) 17:04, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• In 2020 29% of natural gas in Turkey was > In 2020, 29% of natural gas in Turkey was

Reworded Chidgk1 (talk) 17:04, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Gas power plants are used more when drought reduces hydropower, as in 2021 - reduces hyrdopower capacity?

No because "capacity" is used to describe the maximum possible power output, not the maximum for a year Chidgk1 (talk) 16:53, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• In hyrdo - is "its position surrounded by three seas." relevant to hydropower? i.e. is any power generated from seas?

No power generated from seas as far as I know - I did not write the sentence - perhaps the writer is implying that dams on rivers directly to the sea do not annoy the neighbours so may be easier to build, whereas dams on rivers to other countries often do annoy them Chidgk1 (talk) 16:53, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Due to changes in rainfall generation varies considerably from year to year > Due to changes in rainfall, generation varies considerably from year to year

Done - if easier for you feel free to directly edit any obvious minor problems (I can always check the meaning has not accidentally been changed) - or indeed ignore anything which a copyedit would surely fix as I can always put it in to the Guild of Copy Editors later if necessary Chidgk1 (talk) 17:03, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Due to changes in rainfall generation varies considerably from year to year[a] and, according to S&P Global Platts, when there is drought in Turkey during the peak electricity demand month of August the aim of the State Hydraulic Works to conserve water for irrigation can conflict with the Turkish Electricity Transmission Corporation aiming to generate electricity. very long run-on sentence.

Split Chidgk1 (talk) 17:21, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Despite droughts increasing due to climate change hydropower is predicted to remain important for load balancing > Despite droughts increasing due to climate change, hydropower is predicted to remain important for load balancing

Done

• According to modelling by Carbon Tracker new wind power > According to modelling by Carbon Tracker, new wind power (N.B. lots of punctuation errors like this, e.g. the following sentence.

Done

• Solar potential is very high in Turkey, especially in the south-east and Mediterranean provinces is repetition. Integrate with preceding sentence. This whole (solar) section is very piecemeal - integrate into better prose.

Tweaked a bit - if still problems please let me know Chidgk1 (talk) 17:31, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• on the gas bill reads a bit informal?

Changed Chidgk1 (talk) 17:31, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• The small-sized geothermal power plant was expanded to the country's biggest one in 2013. > The small-sized geothermal power plant was expanded to become the country's biggest in 2013.

Done

• Turkey has no nuclear power plants but is building Akkuyu, which is planned to start generation in 2023, and is expected to last for at least 60 years a bit clumbsy. What about "Turkey first nuclear power plant at Akkuyu is planned to start generation in 2023"

Yes much better thanks - done Chidgk1 (talk) 17:42, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• with the 2018 construction start in Mersin Province is this referring to the same plant? Not clear.

Clarified Chidgk1 (talk) 17:42, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Plans for Sinop nuclear power plant > Plans for the Sinop nuclear power plant

Amended Chidgk1 (talk) 17:48, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Distributed generation over 11 kW can be connected to either the high or low voltage network, but less than that only to the low. doesn't make sense.

Amended - if still unclear let me know Chidgk1 (talk) 17:48, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. This article suffers a bit from
   WP:SEAOFBLUE
   , i.e. in its broadest terms lots of links, and long ones at that. I get that it is a technical article, so will tend to have more links, but please review if the actual linked text can be lessened? e.g. air pollution from coal-fired power stations in Turkey, does it all need to be linked. And Turkey has not ratified the international protocol to limit fine dust polluting other countries. maybe just link international protocol?
2. Another example: In 2015 there was a one day national blackout should be "In 2015, there was a one day national blackout"!

   Shortened both of those and several others Chidgk1 (talk) 08:06, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

3. What are your thoughts on the lead?
   MOS:REFERS says "If possible, the page title should be the subject of the first sentence". Is the best intoductory sentence(s)? I've looked at other "Electricity sector in..." articles and there isn't a common approach. I do feel however the article dives straight into specifics, rather than giving an overview before getting into specifics? Happy to discuss though.Mark83 (talk) 18:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
   ]

Wrote a new first para without numbers or technical terms, but open to more suggestions for improving the lead Chidgk1 (talk) 08:29, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. many of those burning lignite are subsidized. is too much detail for intro? And leads to a "so what" question. In contrast this is covered better in the main body. Mark83 (talk) 18:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not too much detail and "so what" is a good question - I have an answer - but if it is OK with you we can come back to the lead once everything else is sorted

Amended to "brown coal" to make clear connection to previous sentence and expanded sentence to add another reason for importance Chidgk1 (talk) 08:36, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. WP:WTW
   perhaps from 22% in 2020 to 28% in 2040

I cannot see a problem here Chidgk1 (talk) 08:01, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"perhaps" is inexact/vague? Mark83 (talk) 11:33, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reworded to show that 22% is exact and 28% the estimate Chidgk1 (talk) 17:53, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Some dams are controversial, sometimes because - again WTW, vague.

Amended - if still a problem please let me know Chidgk1 (talk) 18:23, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Check overlinking. (Link first and once) e.g. Carbon Tracker.

Ran the check tool and unlinked duplicates Chidgk1 (talk) 18:34, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. "Demand forecasts" table - high profile in article but unsourced?

Done Chidgk1 (talk) 08:48, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Can you check generation data please. I get there is a 1 year difference - but the text says generation in 2021 was coal 26%, gas 42%, hydro 13% and wind 10%, and the chart say coal 36%, gas 23%, hydro 26% and wind 1%. Something is wrong surely? Did wind increase by a factor of 10? Did hydro double?

It is not surprising for hydro to halve from a rainy year to a drought year, and whether coal or gas take up the slack depends a lot on their relative prices. I tried to explain that in the text somewhere. As for wind you are right there would be a mistake if it changed that much but it has actually grown fairly steadily - do you think I should see if it is possible to move the chart scale to be on the right (or both sides) of the diagram so it is easier to read off the latest year? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:44, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By the way you can a similar chart in Energy in Turkey where I moved labelling to the right - that was quite easy - so could do same with electricity chart if you think better than current labelling - but if so probably best to leave scale on left Chidgk1 (talk) 18:00, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Not OR, just a query on accuracy: Imports of gas, mostly for Turkey's power stations, is one of the main costs for the economy, - can you elaborate please? Main costs for the whole economy? And I'm sorry I am having trouble accessing the sources. And it's nothing to do with your referencing.

Yes the whole economy you understood right. I tried to explain in detail at the beginning of the "economics and finance" section. Which sources are a problem please and would you like me to put more cites in the lead (or indeed less or none)? I think there is a tool to check for dead cite links but I cannot remember - if you don't know I could ask at helpdesk. Chidgk1 (talk) 07:07, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. constructing too much electricity generation capacity can be expensive, both for the government because of energy subsidies and for the private sector because of debt interest., don't think the debt interest thing is right. The reference says debt was used as a result of crises - but that won't always (or even naturally) be the case?

I am not an economist but I understand the Weighted average cost of capital is becoming even more important, because almost all the cost of wind and solar is capital cost as the operation and maintenance costs are low as they need no fuel. Similarly nuclear fuel costs are low compared to fossil but capital cost to build nuclear is very large. Cost of capital is higher here than for, say, UK wind power as lenders take more risk. So I have added another cite about cost of capital. Chidgk1 (talk) 07:19, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Converting existing dams to pumped storage has been suggested as more feasible than new pumped storage. - I know what pumped storage is, needs linked/explained though.

Linked Chidgk1 (talk) 18:37, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• with two-thirds capacity binary and one-third flash - no idea what this means and most readers won't either.

Removed as maybe too detailed for this article - it can be explained in the main article Chidgk1 (talk) 18:44, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Also in geothermal, no idea what to prevent this the fluid is sometimes completely reinjected means

Amended - if still unclear please let me know Chidgk1 (talk) 18:44, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of work to do here.

1. The first 4 images are not representative of the topic at all, or at least not a good way of introducing the topic at the beginning of the article.

   Children looking at a museum piece? If that's really how we want to represent the article, at least provide information on when this equipment was used? Where? But I think it should go.

   Moved lower down Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   You haven't established relevance. The caption needs to do that and some other things, see

   WP:CAPTION. Mark83 (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply

   ]

   Amended caption and added another pic below it - hopefully readers can now see the relevance to today Chidgk1 (talk) 08:43, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y

   "Historic transformer in Bursa" - again, relevance? No longer needed?

   Moved lower down but willing to delete if you prefer Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Establish relevance with a good caption or remove.Mark83 (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Removed Chidgk1 (talk) 06:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y

   "Nostalgic tramway in Istanbul" - is this article about electricity sector or transport?

   Transport is an extremely important deep past and near future consumer of electricity so we need at least one transport pic - I would have liked to add a pic of the

   Togg Turkish national car but I could not find one. If you like I could swap it for a high speed rail pic

   

   Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply

   ]

   Then make the caption establish this. Readers shouldn't have to ask you via a GA review, you know? Mark83 (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Amended caption Chidgk1 (talk) 08:52, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y

   "Many electrical consumer goods are exported, such as this Turkish coffee maker" is this article about electricity sector or the Turkish consumer goods manufacturing sector?

   Heating water is an important consumer of electricity but willing to delete if you prefer. A pic of a combi boiler would be boring don't you think? Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   The caption doesn't say that. It talks about exports! And even if you make a caption along those lines, I still don't see the need for it. Contemporary articles don't have such images. Mark83 (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Removed Chidgk1 (talk) 06:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y thanksMark83 (talk) 09:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   "Renewable energy increases employment in Turkey" - this could/should maybe be covered in prose? But I think it's too tangential to need a graph?

   Removed for now - may want to put back in again if graph better Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   On reflection have put graph back in with better caption and cited as I think readers can understand the skill levels more quickly than they could from text - however I could also write some text if you think necessary Chidgk1 (talk) 10:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y covered in more detail below. Mark83 (talk) 09:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2. No caption at all on 2 images. Basic GA criteria miss here.

   Removed Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y

3. "Average annual wind speeds at 50 m above ground" - really not sure this is needed? Too much detail and should be at the sub-article.

   Removed Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y

4. "Electricity pole and ferryboat after the 1999 İzmit earthquake" - no idea what the relevance is.

   Amended caption to show how relevant Chidgk1 (talk) 09:09, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   I still don't see what we're trying to say here. Electricity pole and ferryboat after the 1999 İzmit earthquake - a resilient electricity system is important as earthquakes in Turkey are common - why are we referring to a ferry in the caption (and even why are we using an image in which a ferry is so promient)? Not sure of the relevance? And is the eletrictity pole the Y shaped thing in the foreground? Was it damaged in the earthquake?

Mark83 (talk) 09:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removed Chidgk1 (talk) 12:35, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. "Mosque in Old Halfeti partially submerged by the Birecik Dam on the River Euphrates" tenuous link to the subject. It just seems like a pretty image for the sake of a pretty image.

   Removed other 2 dam pics and moved to hydro section Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   So you've removed the 2 dam pics that are actually relevant to electricty generation, and kept the image of a mosque which is not at all relevant? I'm confused. Mark83 (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   OK good point - Birecik dam was not noteworthy so replaced pic with pre-Ilusu Dam pic as Ilusu has been noteworthy for decades and explained more in caption. Also added small hydro pic as small hydro rather common here Chidgk1 (talk) 08:57, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y thanks. Mark83 (talk) 09:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2. Driverless vehicle concept in Istanbul - is this article about electricity sector or transport?

   The idea was to contrast with the nostalgic tram pic but willing to remove if you prefer Chidgk1 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   That isn't a reason to keep it.Mark83 (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Removed Chidgk1 (talk) 10:55, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   Y thanks.

• Another look at images following recent changes:
  • File:Yeniköy Power Plant Milas Muğla Turkey.jpg - caption - Yeniköy (pictured), Yatağan and Kemerköy - these are linked as power stations, but shouldn't they be captioned as such? e.g. Yeniköy (pictured), Yatağan and Kemerköy power stations have made...

Done Chidgk1 (talk) 12:28, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Y

• • "Geothermal power off the road to Ephesus" is a strange choice of words. Just put in the location. "off the road" isn't descriptive. There will be many roads this could be.

Yes I struggled when I put this in - it seemed the best pic as the others are poor quality or from far away - but there is hardly any description so I don't know which plant this is - unless you have a better idea for the caption maybe I should just remove it? Chidgk1 (talk) 12:28, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Y There was location data along with the image. I've fixed this. Mark83 (talk) 09:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • File:Hasankeyf - panoramio (1).jpg - I really don't understand the way you seem to be so focused on things impacted by dams. This article is an overview of the Electricity sector in Turkey - a few structures submerged by dams seems like such a niche area of the topic, i.e. undue focus. If it should be covered it all it should be at articles for the damns themselves/localities. Or Hydroelectricity in Turkey.

Moved to more detailed article Chidgk1 (talk) 12:35, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Y

• • Caption of Renewable energy increases employment in Turkey is not an accurate description of the image which says renewable energy can increase employment. And are we happy with the reliability of the source? NPOV?

Fixed cite - yes happy with source as a serious study from reputable organisations Chidgk1 (talk) 12:48, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That caption isn't gramatically correct. But it's also not factually correct. The chart says "renewable energy can increase employment", your caption says it does. Suggestion: "According to a 2021 study, government policies supporting renewable energy may increase employment in Turkey" I'm not sure it needs a reference? (just confirming I didn't ask for that). That can be in the image information, i.e. when clicked on.Mark83 (talk) 09:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removed. Looking at the details in the study if I understand it right they are saying that the governments current renewable energy policy is increasing employment but the authors are proposing changes in policy which would increase it further. I'll take the graphic out from here and hopefully explain it better if and when I get around to improving the renewable energy in Turkey article. Chidgk1 (talk) 12:44, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • Control room of 2016 Zetes-3 coal-fired power station, which environmentalists would like to put in a museum - not that happy about the text I've put in italics. It reads a bit pointed/POV. I know what you're trying to say, but it doesn't feel encyclopedic.Mark83 (talk) 20:06, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Encyclopedias don't have to be humorless! But if you think it is POV and don't have a better suggestion I can remove the second part of the caption if you wish Chidgk1 (talk) 12:48, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

YThis is an example of preferences. I can't impose my preferences. I wouldn't write this in an article; I know what you mean, but this feels like a newspaper or magazine article tone, not an encyclopedia. But I'll leave it up to you. Mark83 (talk) 09:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]