Talk:Gangsta rap

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 February 2019 and 3 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Basseywilson3.

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ChrisMoreno24. Peer reviewers: Tarispittman.

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Someone recently redirected hardcore hip hop to this article. It'd be good if anyone could comment at Talk:Hardcore hip hop#Redirect. Thanks, Spellcast (talk) 01:07, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you're talking about Mafioso Rap, shouldn't

extraordinary proof. And please don't bring chiropractic disputes here. / edg ☺ ☭ 15:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Please keep your comments focused on improving the article. You may want to review

WP:NOTOPINION. œ^™ 21:18, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Wikipedia articles are not for

reliable sources that back it up if you want to include this information. -- œ^™ 19:43, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

If so then edg has better things to do than create bad and inflammatory PR by insulting expressed opinions. As for reliable sources, I already provided wikipedia links. If wikipedia links aren't reliable sources for you, what is? Just follow the wikipedia links I gave and anyone can get a description of the skirmishes between these rappers and the law. I can make the links more precise by zeroing on the actual description if you prefer. You are right that they are relevant because that particular theme is paramount in their music. So I gather I can

• If you honestly think that listening to a song is "embracing evil" you probably shouldn't be editing this article at all, as you clearly will have difficulty maintaining a
  talk) 22:39, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Really.. you never heard of the term "studio gangster"?? And no, other Wikipedia links are not reliable sources, you can't use Wikipedia as reference to itself! Please be sure to read and understand
  reliable source before making any edits. -- œ^™ 02:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply
  ]

could this be the earliest song where a rapper mentions themself as a gangster? beastie boys have a mention and rightfully so, but this song came out in '85 and possibly recorded or written in '84. the song referred to in the article by the beastie boys, which i assume is slow ride, came out in '86. despite not being a gangsta rap song, im just saying it could be considered noteworthy as the first moment in rap's history where a rapper called themself a gangster. can anyone else let me know of an earlier moment if i'm wrong here? --Leaf7 (talk) 21:21, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting.. you could be right, although LL Cool J is hardly a "gangsta".. the earliest mention I've heard about was

Ice T in 1986. But you should definitely try asking at the Wikipedia Entertainment Reference Desk.. lots of very knowledgeable people there.. you're much more likely to receive an answer there. -- œ^™ 22:16, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply

]

While I'm on the topic, I would agree with the bit about Ice Cube toeing the line between glorification and denounciation [of violence], as it seems to be a common trait of gangsta rap and worth mentioning in this article. The best example I can think of is two contrasting lines from Criminal Minded: "I won't contemplate a battle cause it really ain't worth it / I'd rather point a pistol at your head and try to burst it" and "You seem to be the type that only understand the annihilation / and destruction of the next man / that's not poetry, that is insanity". But that's just my interpretation-- great rap challenges the listener to draw their own conclusions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.251.223.42 (talk) 23:16, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not fair. Geto Boys and Scarface are pioneers of gangsta rap yet they are hardly getting any mentions. Wanna know their influence? Well, Scarface back in 1989 wrote a song about selling cocaine and killing his rivals while sitting at the top position of the drug lords in his city with "Scarface" from Geto Boys' 1989 album, Grip It! On That Other Level. This, went on to influence Kool G Rap's album Live and Let Die (1992) which got the idea for "Straight Jacket" right out of "Mind Playing Tricks on Me" by Geto Boys (1991). And Geto Boys are also pioneers in the fact that they took violence in gangsta rap to the next level. As evidenced in the 1990 version of "Mind of a Lunatic" they made graphic descriptions of necrophilia, rape and schizophrenic imagery which no one else in gangsta rap had gotten to at this point. Therefore the Geto Boys deserve a lot more credit not to mention they created horrorcore around the same time as Esham did in Detroit. They simply deserve a lot more credit, they came out in 1989 which is quite early for a still growing genre that only really had N.W.A "fully repping it". Want more? In his solo debut 1991's Mr. Scarface is Back, Scarface made descriptions of being mentally unstable, and made cocaine based drug related stories that is the staple for mafioso rap which even has it's own section. Hell, at this point I'd say Geto Boys are the most influence gangsta rap group next to N.W.A. MayhemCreator (talk) 21:14, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that Geto Boys are pioneers in Gangsta Rap, with Scarface of course being the first to popularize the whole Scarface Tony Montana craze and the first to actually sample the movie (don't quote me on this). And Ganksta N-I-P who is affiliated with Geto Boys has been doing the horrorcore thing since 1991, which is probably even before Esham and ICP (again, I don't know for sure) -- œ^™ 11:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't really anything to discuss, except that Dan56 is probably blind, since my citation clearly does match my edit. So Dan56, maybe you need to see an optician or something.

Please avoid

ad hominem attacks and focus on content.
Looking at that book you linked to, a quote I find on page 69 is "[Gangsta Rap] performers such as [...] advertised their association with various Crip factions", and on page 72 "Crips are not alone in their affinity for gangsta rap. Marion 'Suge' Knight, founder of Death Row Records, allegedly maintains links to the Bloods" (the sentence after that refers to Hip-hop performers, not Gangsta Rappers, with links to Bloods).
In conclusion, the source you found supports that numerous gangsta rappers claim to have ties with Crips, and one producer allegedly has ties to Bloods. That is IMO a bit weaker than the claim that was in the article. Amalthea 07:45, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply

]

I have just used your above description. I hope for a compromise from Dan56. If he repeats his previous actions i may have to seek an alternative, less friendly, route.

talk 10:31, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply

]

Again, focus on content please, avoid threats, and assume good faith: We are here to build an encyclopedia based on a few basic principles and policies. If Dan56 has valid concerns then he should remove the affected sections. The editing principle described in

WP:BRD is established and accepted by the community, and reverts are often part of the process for finding a policy-based wording that has consensus (≠ compromise!). It's not personal. Amalthea 11:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply

]

I'll be sure to schedule an appointment for an optician soon, but for now, how about adding an

talk) 16:11, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply

]

There are several such refs which are cited just like mine throughout wikipedia. I have never seen an admin take issues with it, including the admin above Amalthea, so i say leave it as it is.

talk 16:22, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply

]

Since you're so adament i will work on one of your concerns

talk 16:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply

]

From the opening paragraph, isn't thievery the same as theft? 58.114.192.189 (talk) 02:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to discuss splitting the "Mafioso rap" section into its own article -- mainly, for content issues. If you look at the comments in the discussion pages, you'll see that there are disputes about the coherence of "gangsta rap" as an actual musical genre. I for one think it's a term worth preserving. However imprecise it may be, it has a lot of cultural currency, especially within

For much of the nineties, gangsta rap was popularly associated with

As you'll see in the article itself, one of Raekwon's peers and group mates, GZA, actually contested the term "gangsta rap" - and saw it as misleading. Not only did "gangsta rap" have specific stylistic and regional associations - it was also quite politically-charged, thanks to the censoring efforts of

Several years ago, I authored mafioso rap as a separate article. If I recall, there was no agreement or discussion about changing this article into a revert. I would suggest we simply restore this article back to its original version. And in this current article, we can keep a line or two, along with a link to the separate article. Chubdub (talk) 16:22, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to point out, my intention is not to define either gangsta or mafioso rap as region-specific genres (for instance, Southern rap group, Ghetto-boys, were early contributors to Mafioso rap, and as this article points out, some of the earliest gangsta rapper were from NYC). And as I mentioned before, I feel the mafioso section should remain in this article, given the overlap that exists. Contemporary rappers, like Rick Ross and others, identify themselves as 'gangsta' and freely draw upon organized-crime references and materialism.

I just feel that a sub-genre as distinct as mafioso rap, merits its own separate article - so that it's taken on its own terms, and not merely as a subset of gangsta rap. Also, a separate article, would better reflect the regional and stylistic distinctions that were made during the mid-90s, so as to avoid undue conflation or anachronisms Chubdub (talk) 17:07, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Recently in Chico, there has been a sub-genre of Gangster Rap music emerging called Drill Music. I think that this is becoming mainstream enough to be included in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.53.8 (talk) 19:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Part of the

talk) 20:11, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

This is a page about gangsta rap, why are thug and gangsta in quotes? Just seems kind of uppity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.19.26 (talk) 01:44, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Is everything in the article relevant to the article topic? Is there anything that distracted you?

 Everything is connected to the topic, which allowed the article to be readable. From writing on the origins of gangsta rap, to the decade that I would consider as the climax of the subgenre in the 1990’s to present section. The two aspects of the article, that had created a bit of a distraction to me, were the descriptions provided in the introduction, which I am going to dig deeper with in question 3 below, and the information placed in the 1990’s - present column that seemed to bring me back to the 80’s in the Hip-Hop and gangsta rap timeline. For example, the introduction of the Houston scene and Geto Boys, and Mafioso Rap, are detailed to have come about in the 1980’s. Although they did play a part in the 1990’s,  I think the introduction of these topics should have been brought up in the article in the earlier column entitled Origins: 1984–1990. The issue that may come to mind is thinking about the most influential time of these topics which is in the 1990’s. We can further detail the topics in the 1990’s column, but maybe we can try to implement it inside the earlier column.

Is the article neutral? Are there any claims, or frames, that appear heavily biased toward a particular position?

I think that the writer did a good job on keeping it neutral. The writer exploited each side of the gangsta rap phenomenon whether it was the political disagreement of the subject, or if it was the side that artists took in representing their subgenre of gangsta rap. We are able to read on the different problems this genre has created between the artists and other figures who have encountered it’s place in music and media. 

Are there viewpoints that are overrepresented, or underrepresented?

The article is well put together in terms of establishing the sections and what is contained in the sections. I think that the introduction creates a laundry list and over represents what both politicians and religious leaders believed gangsta rap promotes in American Society. Crime, serial killing, murder, violence, profanity, sex addiction, homophobia, and racism lead the list in what gangsta rap is considered to promote by religious leaders and politicians. However, this list only includes 8 of just over 20 terms listed in the introduction. Although it all may be true, and may cause a reader with no knowledge on gangsta rap to fully understand the information on it, it should be limited and not as long, since it comes across as a laundry list. Three things that I feel are underrepresented, are the sole stories of Tupac, the modern day hip hop era that includes aspects of gangsta rap in new subgenres, along with Tupac’s induction to the rock and roll hall of fame that follow up with the Biopic films that were released on Notorious B.I.G, Tupac Shakur, and N.W.A. I believe that it is reasonable to include Tupac’s sole stories because they are similar to that of Ice-T, who has his own section in the article. The modern day hip hop platform should be included as well because wikipedia pages are usually up to date. The new hip hop today includes lots of gangsta rap aspects but it is under a evolved form of music that is being added to the history books. Lastly, biopic films that have made it to commercial success within the last decade are about the lives of gangsta rap artists and groups like Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., and NWA., along with the rock and roll hall of fame induction of Tupac which has shown where gangsta rap, and hip hop, has come in terms of pop culture, which is why I think we can work together to include this in the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisMoreno24 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 19 October 2017 (UTC)[reply] 

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I was considering adding Vincent Staples to the mainstream section because I think he is relevant enough and some of his songs relates to gangsta rap.Basseywilson3 (talk) 00:30, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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