Talk:Juansher

This review is

transcluded from Talk:Juansher/GA1

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Reviewer: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 15:59, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   b. (

   lists

   ):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   b. (citations to

   reliable sources

   ):

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Will take this on, hopefully in the next few days. Constantine ✍ 15:59, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did some copyedits to save time. Feel free to revert/discuss.

Lede

• The lede is too short, it does not sufficiently summarize the article.

Expanded it, thoughts? --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:22, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Looks good. Did some tweaks for more concise prose, feel free to revert/discuss. Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Mihranid prince of Caucasian Albania, ruling the kingdom was he a prince or a king?

He was the ruler of Albania, but apparently his title of Arranshah meant "Prince of Albania" (Vacca, Alison (2022). A bit unusual, since "shah" in historiography usually means king. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:44, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Then I would avoid the term 'kingdom', which is either way only used in the lede. Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced it with principality [1]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:46, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Background

• descended to Sasanian monarchs of Iran descended 'from the'? And AFAIK the Parthians were not descended from the Sasanians, so this should be clarified.

Ops, I didn't mean it to sound like that. Reworded it a bit, thoughts? [2] --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:20, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• OK, now I get it. But now you have a close repetition of 'who' and a run-on sentence. perhaps 'Juansher belonged to Mihranid dynasty. Despite the dynasty's Parthian origin, they claimed to be descended from the Sasanian monarchs of Iran, who had held authority over Caucasian Albania since 252/3.' or similar? Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done [3]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:46, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Foreign terms like Arranshah should be enclosed in {{transl|xx|}}

Done [4] --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:21, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• its royal status what does 'its' refer to?

Removed that part completely [5]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:49, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Out of four sons, Juansher was the second eldest of the Albanian prince a bit convoluted: 'Juansher was the second eldest of the four sons of the Albanian prince...'

Done. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:45, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reign

• During the Arab-Islamic invasion of Iran some dates would be valuable here.

Done [6]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:20, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• When Juansher reached Ctesiphon in 637 or 638 why did he go there, and what is Ctesiphon?

The source unfortunately doesn't say, but it seems it was to help the Sasanians against the Arabs. Added that Ctesiphon was the capital of the Sasanian Empire. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:59, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• a serious wound at the Battle of al-Qadisiyyah please add a date, and since Qadisiyya was before the events previously described, rearrange chronologically.

The thing is that this source considers Qadisiyya to have taken place a little later (6th January 638, which I've now added). And I'm not sure how accepted the current date in its Wikipedia article is amongst scholars, especially since it's in such a messy state. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:59, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Well, the EI2 article on the battle says "at a date between 14/635 and 16/637...dates given in the sources for the battle vary between the years 14 and 16, but the earlier date must be rejected since there is too much circumstantial evidence against it." Veccia Vagleri, who wrote the article, says that in her own opinion, "Muharram is/February-March 636 is the date to be preferred for the battle of al-Kadisiyya.". Howard-Johnston's chronology is plausible, AFAICT, but it definitely is a revisionist one; he has several such interpretations in matters of 7th-century chronology, and while they may become the new consensus, I am not aware that they have yet become so (the newest edition of Kennedy's The Prophet and the Age of the Caliphates still puts Qadisiyya and the fall of Ctesiphon in 637. I would therefore strongly recommend leaving aside the exact dates here (including on Juansher's visit to the Persian capital). it is clear that Juansher went to Ctesiphon and then participated at Qadisiyya, that is enough; for the chronology, one should look to the article on the battle. Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done [7]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:46, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Give a modern location for Adurbadagan

Done [8]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:17, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• the wide Albanian fields sounds poetic and somewhat unencyclopedic; do you mean the lowlands or plains?

Yep, fixed. [9] --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:59, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• What is Iberia? Where is it? What was its relationship to Albania? Ditto for Siwnik and Armenia. I urge the inclusion of a map here.

Added a map [10], though unfortunately Siwnik isn't shown there. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:16, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Map is good ;) but please also add the details in the text. Maps and images should be complementary as far as possible, you should never depend on them for the article to make sense. Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts? [11] [12] [13] [14] --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:07, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• is First Patrician the title of 'protopatrikios'? I recommend using the transliterated Greek form rather than the translation, which has misleading connotations.

I'm not sure. The source simply says "Movses enumerates the magnificent presents and the high-ranking title ("First Patrician") with which Constans II rewarded his new eastern client." Do you still think I should replace it with protopatrikios? --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:59, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes, you should. Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done [15]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:48, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Mention the Umayyad Caliphate after the end of the First Fitna.

Done [16]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:45, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Who planned Juansher's assassination?

Added it [17]. Source unfortunately doesn't go into more depth. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:27, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• To clarify: what was the motivation? Varaznoy was the assassin, but was he sent by the caliph, or did he have his own reasons? The context suggests the former, but it should be explicitly mentioned if so. Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Silly me, there is actually some info about it, added it [18] --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:02, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Culture & Family

• Note that Zoroastrianism was the Sasanian state religion.

Done [19]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:14, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

• Sources listed are high-quality academic publications
• Add oclc to Toumanoff, isbn or issn to Gadjiev, issn to Shahbazi

Probably bad that I don't know this, but how do I find the oclc? --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:18, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• You can look the title up in worldcat for example. oclc is not unique (e.g. the same work held in different libraries will have different oclc) but it helps with identifying/verifying it. Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Standardize ISBNs to either hyphenated or non-hyphenated

I assume you are referring to Rapp and Hacikyan which aren't hyphenated? Unfortunately I can't find a hyphenated version of their ISBN when searching under the name of the works. Is there another way to find them? --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:10, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• If you know how ISBNs are formatted, then there is an easy cheatsheet: you have the first three digits (EAN), then a registration group (usually language-specific, e.g. 0/1 for English, 2 for French, 3 for German, etc) and the last one is always a checksum. The intermediate part then depends on the publisher. But this is not a requirement for GA< so feel free to skip it. Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see. I think I did it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:29, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Vacca appears to not be used in the article

Moved to Further reading [20] --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:21, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran: That's it for a first pass. Constantine ✍ 17:31, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome, I'll take care of the issues. Thanks Constantine! --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:41, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I'll make sure to finish the final issues very soon! --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:20, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cplakidas: I've adressed most of the stuff, there are however some things I'm unsure of. It goes without saying; please take your time, as you let me take mine, which I'm thankful for. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:11, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran: have replied above. Also, an additional question:

• It is mentioned that Juansher's father took power after 651, but his fate is not mentioned. Also, the modality of his taking power is unclear: did he become prince again (in which case Juansher's regnal dates need adjustment) or was he more of a power behind the throne, with Juansher still as prince? Constantine ✍ 07:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I couldn't find more details about those two things. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:57, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cplakidas: Tried to address the remaining issues, thoughts? --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:30, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the long delay, HistoryofIran (talk · contribs). I have had another look, and am satisfied that my comments are taken care of. Thanks for your time and effort in producing this article! Constantine ✍ 16:34, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]