Talk:Rubicon (protein)

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:21, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Atomic structure of Rubicon (red) bound to switch molecule Rab7
Atomic structure of Rubicon (red) bound to switch molecule Rab7
  • ... that deleting the protein Rubicon (shown) increases lifespan and reduces age-related disease in mice, flies, and worms? Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6381146/

    From the abstract: "Consistent with this idea, knockdown of Rubicon extends worm and fly lifespan and ameliorates several age-associated phenotypes. Tissue-specific experiments reveal that Rubicon knockdown in neurons has the greatest effect on lifespan. Rubicon knockout mice exhibits reductions in interstitial fibrosis in kidney and reduced α-synuclein accumulation in the brain."
    • ALT1: ... that genetically crossing (out) the protein Rubicon (shown) reduces hallmarks of aging in roundworms, fruit flies, and mice? Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6381146/

      From the abstract: "Consistent with this idea, knockdown of Rubicon extends worm and fly lifespan and ameliorates several age-associated phenotypes. Tissue-specific experiments reveal that Rubicon knockdown in neurons has the greatest effect on lifespan. Rubicon knockout mice exhibits reductions in interstitial fibrosis in kidney and reduced α-synuclein accumulation in the brain."

    • ALT2: ... that when crossing out Rubicon (shown), the time to die is cast later in roundworms and female fruit flies? Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6381146/

      From the abstract: "Consistent with this idea, knockdown of Rubicon extends worm and fly lifespan and ameliorates several age-associated phenotypes. Tissue-specific experiments reveal that Rubicon knockdown in neurons has the greatest effect on lifespan. Rubicon knockout mice exhibits reductions in interstitial fibrosis in kidney and reduced α-synuclein accumulation in the brain."

    • ALT3: ... that genetic deletion of Rubicon reduces hallmarks of aging in roundworms, fruit flies, and mice? Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6381146/

      Frome the abstract: "Consistent with this idea, knockdown of Rubicon extends worm and fly lifespan and ameliorates several age-associated phenotypes. Tissue-specific experiments reveal that Rubicon knockdown in neurons has the greatest effect on lifespan. Rubicon knockout mice exhibits reductions in interstitial fibrosis in kidney and reduced α-synuclein accumulation in the brain."


    • Reviewed:

Created by Prodigiousfool (talk). Self-nominated at 19:52, 21 June 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: No - What's cited is that Rubicon deletion increases lifespan in (female fruit) flies and (round)worms and reduces (hallmarks of) age-related disease in mice. The current hook phrasing implies that it also increases lifespan in mice.
  • Interesting: No - The proposed hook is rather dull. For a protein called Rubicon, I would suggest seizing the opportunity to make a humorous reference to crossing the Rubicon. Two possibilities off the top of my head would be "crossing out Rubicon" (i.e. performing a gene knockout) and making a pun on the multiple meanings of "die" (considering the English translation of Alea iacta est). Some other punny reference to Julius Caesar could also work.
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: None required.
Overall:
WP:ANALYSIS.
  • See Also should be "See also" with a lowercase "a".
    • Ping Prodigiousfool. TompaDompa (talk) 23:08, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • Following edits by
      WP:Good article status). A better hook and this is good to go. TompaDompa (talk) 12:37, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply
      ]
      • @TompaDompa: thanks for your attention. I've updated the hook above per suggestions and discussion on the Talk page. I'll try to work on the article to discuss autophagosome maturation in the near future; that's definitely a good idea. - Prodigiousfool
        • For the record, the talk page in question is Template talk:Did you know nominations/Rubicon (protein) (not the article talk page). I've restored the old hook suggestion and labelled the new one ALT1 for ease of following the discussion. That being said, I don't think ALT1 is particularly "hooky" either; the idea is that the reader will be enticed to click the link to the article, which is kind of undercut by explaining the joke too much. I would suggest something along the lines of ... that when crossing out Rubicon, the time to die is cast later in roundworms and female fruit flies? to get a pun on crossing the Rubicon and Alea iacta est both. TompaDompa (talk) 14:35, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
          • @TompaDompa: Updated ALT1 based on your suggestion. I like the phrasing, though my intuition before was that something like that is too obfuscated for a general audience. I defer, of course, to your experience here! -- Prodigiousfool
            • Again, I've restored the previous version of ALT1 and labelled the edited version ALT2 for ease of following the discussion. I wouldn't say I'm all that experienced when it comes to DYK matters. Anyway: I agree that the hook is a bit opaque, but I think the double pun makes up for it. The point of the hook is after all to entice the reader to click the bolded link and read the article, and I would personally be more inclined to do so if I saw ALT2 on the main page than if it were slightly more clear but less humorous. However, before this appears on the
              the die is cast" too subtle. I wouldn't blame them, and it's precisely because there are additional layers of checking that I am comfortable approving it. With all that said: ALT2 is ready. TompaDompa (talk) 16:44, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply
              ]

    As discussed on the DYK talk page, it needs a new hook. Schwede66 09:41, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    I'd like to nominate ALT3: "... that genetic deletion of the protein Rubicon reduces hallmarks of aging in roundworms, fruit flies, and mice?". I know that TompaDompa finds this form uninspiring (see their comments on the similar ALT1), however I'd argue that both to scientific and general audiences this is an interesting piece of information. From a scientific perspective, this protein was discovered and its function elucidated quite recently, and as the article says it is a potential target for novel therapeutics. To a general audience, the concept of aging mitigation is likely of interest and the Rubicon article can provide a gateway to reading about multiple related topics, including autophagy. I don't think the fact that the results originate from model organisms detracts from the hook, especially given the lack of controlled aging trials in humans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prodigiousfool (talk • contribs) 05:29, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    The original hook and ALT1 and ALT2 all having been rejected on the DYK talk page, ALT3 needs to be reviewed. (I've edited the version just above so it matches what's given up top for the same ALT3.) BlueMoonset (talk) 22:50, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think the wording in ALT3 is not matched in the article. The article does not state that Rubicon's deletion increases the lifespan in mice (although other benefits are given) and the article says that it increases the lifespan of roundwords and fruit flies, not "reducing hallmarks of aging". I'm suggesting an ALT below:
    ALT4: ... that genetic deletion of the protein Rubicon increases the lifespan of roundworms and fruit flies?
    @Prodigiousfool and TompaDompa: Thoughts? Z1720 (talk) 23:47, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Z1720: I would contend that the 'hallmarks of aging' phrasing is consistent with the citation, as it does not imply actual aging, but I defer to your judgment here. – Prodigiousfool
    As I indicated at
    WT:DYK, I don't think the fact that performing a specific knockout extends lifespans in Caenorhabditis elegans and female Drosophila melanogaster is terribly interesting in itself; these animals are used for genetic studies because it's practical (short lifespans and so on), and there is no reason to expect this to translate to humans (it doesn't even translate to male D. melanogaster). That being said, I'm not going to protest if somebody else approves such a hook. TompaDompa (talk) 19:17, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    @Prodigiousfool: My concern with ALT 3 was not that it was not reflected in the source, but rather that it is not present in the article itself. If hallmarks of aging is the prefered language, then that should be put in the article. @TompaDompa: I find ALT3/4 to be interesting, as increasing life in animals could have ramifications in other species, like himans. If you do not think ALT3/4 are interesting then please propose new ALTs. Z1720 (talk) 01:52, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not going to review this nomination but I do think that ALT4 is a decent hook. Can we go with it if there's no article/sourcing issues with it? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:30, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I support ALT4. Alternatively ALT5: ... that genetic deletion of the protein Rubicon is associated with reduction of aging-associated diseases in mice, roundworms, and fruit flies? I'd be happy with either being reviewed and putting this issue to rest. Tag Z1720, Narutolovehinata5. – Prodigiousfool
    I haven't checked the article but I think ALT4 is a better hook since it's simpler. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:40, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: The article itself has already been reviewed. The only thing that is needed is a new hook. The difficulty with pages like this is coming up with a hook that is interesting without insinuating more significance than is warranted. In this case, the issue I have with ALT3/ALT4/ALT5 is that what would make it interesting is the implicit suggestion that this might have medical implications for humans, which is not warranted. To my eye, we're either making too strong a claim (if we are indeed implying that this could have implications for humans) or stating something that is rather dull (if we are not). Others might disagree, of course. Another angle that might be pursued in crafting an interesting hook is that the protein appears to have been independently discovered/characterized as part of investigations of autophagy[1] and Salih ataxia[2][3], though this is not currently mentioned in the article. By the way, I discovered this article which appears (I haven't read the article in detail) to contradict the article about Rubicon's role in LAP. This should be resolved. TompaDompa (talk) 21:13, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    ... implicit suggestion that this might have medical implications for humans. Personally I didn't see that connection at all. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:37, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    @

    WP:MEDRS
    has somewhat higher sourcing requirements, but afaik an DYK hook simply must not be actively misleading and cited in the article. These aren't actively misleading, as the claim in the hooks is entirely correct. They're just hooky. Of course the whole science in this area (and in most areas) is done in hopes of eventually finding something that is useful for humans. But that this was achieved here is not claimed, and imo only tabloid papers would misquote it as such.

    Totally unrelated, but out of curiosity: Prodigiousfool why are your signatures not timestamped? --LordPeterII (talk) 16:59, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    @LordPeterII: Glad there's agreement about the phrasing. Now how do we get this reviewed and finally closed!! No timestamps because I'm new to this and not sure how it works. Editing using the markup/source code editor (visual editor and reply buttons not working for me here), so manually adding signatures. Please LMK if there's a better way!! – Prodigiousfool
    @
    WP:TILDE for details.
    I cannot in good conscience approve a hook I don't think is interesting, but there's nothing stopping anyone else from approving ALT4 if they disagree (though it should really specify female fruit flies, in my opinion). Alternatively, you could try coming up with a hook that focuses on some different aspect, such as being independently discovered/characterized as part of investigations of autophagy (a universal process) and Salih ataxia (an extremely rare condition). TompaDompa (talk) 20:01, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    @Prodigiousfool: Ah I see, please use the 4 tildes as TompaDompa suggested – only that way a ping actually causes a notification to pop up (so just now I wasn't notified about you pinging me, although the ping was formatted correctly).
    @TompaDompa: Ah, I understand now that you actually believe the hooks to be dull without the implications, rather than inappropriate (misread that). Well, in my opinion they're not dull (but then, I find many things interesting simply because they are unexpected); yet I'd feel a bit uncomfortable approving a hook you dislike. Regardless, I'll put yet another ALT below (adding "female"):
    • ALT4a: ... that genetic deletion of the protein Rubicon increases the lifespan of roundworms and female fruit flies?
    Someone else may approve it. --LordPeterII (talk) 22:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Reviewer needed to check ALT4a. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:10, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - ALT4a checked and acceptable (did not check rest of article other than content and citation for ALT4a). starship.paint (exalt) 13:36, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]


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