User:Doncram/sandbox15

combo rfc

Draft rfc, to be binding, covering:

• same name same county (mini-rfc was :Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#same_name_same_county
• ship name capitalization or not in NRHP lists, and use of italics, now possible in article titles, too. E.g. one in Bergen County list. (see Ship vs. SHIP within Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#NRHP_list-article_formatting_issues)
• Where to sort the ones starting with USS prefix. The Featured List
  List of NHLs in AL has USS Alabama first in order. Reorderings in favor of putting all the USS ones at the ends of lists have happeend though. (see Ship vs. SHIP within Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#NRHP_list-article_formatting_issues
  )
• Require all places in or near Town to be listed as in Town (so they sort together?), or to allow Town vic. vs. Town. I cannot explain, but when I spend time working on KY list-article and sort it out, I do not want to see the distinction eliminated.
• Require all NRHP lists to have refnums linked to NPS locations which usually (i think 50% or more) do not connect to an NRHP doc (either show false "not digitized" or show not available? for ones moved to NARA) OR allow customization to link to where NRHP doc is actually available, often now at NARA (maybe esp. when there is no article) OR get rid of the linking. Or require link to NARA location using list of correspondence now available (but why, when have article with full proper citation). There were objections at time, i was not involved.
• Extends into another county (see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#NRHP_list-article_formatting_issues) what? moot?
• boundary increases (see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#NRHP_list-article_formatting_issues). was this about including all refnums in list row and in infobox?
• listing name changes, too. Show both on list row and in infobox and in bold text in article lede? Jonesboro, TN is one.
• "County-firsters" vs. "County-deniers". Allow a bunch of geographically close grouped single-NRHP-in-a-county places to be presented in a region list, using sensible definitions of regions in a state, for which "show all coordinates" will be helpful. Or require each to have a separate county article. Or put all the short ones in a state-wide list, for which "show all coordinates will be misleading, unhelpful. Perceptions vary according to where an editor is from, e.g. possibly county-centric largely rural midwest states like Iowa, say, where maybe locals say they are from X County, and/or county names are known for reason that county and county seat names are synonymous (is that right way to say it? anyhow that Y county usually has county seat Y). In other states people don't know the county at all; in Connecticut counties were legally dissolved in 19xx; in some states cities have grown to combine and eliminate multiple county governments, yet our lists reflect old counties. And Texas seems to be different (note election campaigns where candidates pledge to go to every county, and it seems there's not general agreement about any partition by regions. But there is partition used by Texas Historical Society which is used by them, surely we can use that. Link to
  Talk:List of RHPs in TX
• what else?

Request outside help refining RFC to be neutral and clear, and organizing (and moderating?) discussion, and running process, and closing, from those experienced in well-run big RFCs. To address slow churning on some of these points. Arguably some of these don't matter, i don't care about, e.g. ship names, but want to stop slow churning. Note my views have changed on some of these, not saying which.

tfd or mfd

TFD or MFD aggression. Dismissal, exercise of power, at [{Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2022_September_22#Template:TexasHistoricalCommissionNote]]. Which obviously mattered to me, object to "proof" of no issue being one or two editors' computers not having problems, i was returning, find it closed. My perspective that indicator of downloading issue for some users is a problem, and this was a decent temporary soluntion; could have raised to Village Pump technical or such; unfair to impose burden immediately upon a given editor to solve huge Wikipedia level problem; postpoing a year would have been fine. Acting like there is a rush=an act of aggression. To make deletion of category less bullying, closure ps. should routinely offer to provide list of members of a category, before deleting it and removing from all pages. Or, if intended solution is replacing a mainspace category by a Talk space one, as for NRHP architects, implement that rather than simply giving list which i could not implement (another's control over banner prevented). Basicly, consider what would be nicer, not as dismissive/destructive/disheartening.

Note Primebot could easily be adjusted to deliver the list, if wanted. In this case TFD mentioned one page template used, and I know enough to see it was Primebot and go to Primebot's contributions, to figure out it was the following: Talk:First United Methodist Church (Waco, Texas) ‎ →‎National Register-related or not?: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:41, 30 September 2022 diff hist −36‎ m Montana Avenue Historic District ‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:40, 30 September 2022 diff hist −98‎ m Fort Bliss Main Post Historic District ‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −34‎ m House at 912 Magoffin Avenue ‎ →‎top: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −34‎ m First National Bank Building (Jayton, Texas) ‎ →‎top: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −34‎ m Old Irion County Courthouse ‎ →‎top: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −20‎ m Faulk and Gauntt Building‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −32‎ m Doan's Adobe House ‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −33‎ m Old Frio County Jail ‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −35‎ m

I wonder if its edits to Talk page and to NRHP resources even made sense (another reason to provide list for person affected to check effects). In this case Primebot entirely removed the template from the mainspace articles, but replaced the template by {{TexasHistoricalCommissionNote}} on the Talk and WikiProject pages (by {{t|TexasHistoricalCommissionNote}}). Not the worst, but followup editing by editor affected (me) would make sense. --Doncram (talk) 17:21, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

coordinates precision

I have been selecting coordinates using 5 decimals; i do not like the random step introduced by an editor when they "reduce overly precise coords". Spot on coordinates give confidence to reader that the pointer is really on that building. Note there can be difference due to angle of perspective down, in Google Satellite view, though, which I wasn't focusing upon. And in one case there was difference viewing in Google Satellite vs. Bing Satellite, maybe from different angles down.

For example:

• see in Google Satellite view of National Hotel (Miami Beach, Florida), this random step for National Hotel, in Google satellite view, which changed by +.00005 in north-south coords, from 25.79185 to 25.7919, in this edit by user:Deor with edit summary "trim overprecise coords; add {{coord}} param". They also dropped "source:Doncram" and added "region:US-FL" in that edit. I do notice that my chosen coords hit the dome on top of the tall tower, as I intended, not from looking straight down in Google Satellite view, but from angled view as it had come up for me, so the effect is this, from an angle -- i was right on e-w axis but off the offcenter tallest tower and upon the middle of the entire tower instead. --Doncram (talk) 20:03, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Uranienborg Roald Amundsen House, and translation tool(s)

Draft:Roald Amundsen House, obviously to me notable, was deleted. Was there an AFD? The deletion not mentioned at redlink.

• Try translating from Norwegian bokmål and from Norwegian nynorsk wikipedias
  • Norsk bokmål: https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranienborg_(museum) has more sources.
  • Norsk nynorsk: https://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Amundsens_heim_Uranienborg article started 2015. Has good photo of Amundsen writing or at desk table there.
• abut creating the 3D

Searching in News:

• 150 year jubilee stuff, including story about 2 daughters sent away, from the house?
  • Amundsen beer
• WSJ book review: An Explorer Beyond Parallel: Roald Amundsen's journeys—he was first to see the North Pole and first to reach the South—brought him world-wide fame. requires subscription.
• Now you can visit at any time, 2020 review of the Folio Museum's 3d replication. https:www.oavis.no is what? a travel site? It offers news...
• related, also 150 event Here comes the bust
• There will be a party here, also mentions Amundsen diary now available (get this) and a documentary. Ostandets Blad article 1? Printed a copy.
• 110 anniv of South Pole, event at Uranienborg
• Now the celebration starts mentions the party.
• Italian account includes that Amundsen met Nobile at Uranienborg. So much happened there, IMO.
• Ostandets Blad newspaper what, hit subscription requirement, too many hits i guess. Did print copy of first article. This is Ostandets Blad article 2?

Update: I thought it should be in Norway's heritage register, but it was not listed in Wikipedia Norsk Bokmal's page for its location. Happily, I asked at that page's Talk why it is not there, and I was promptly advised by User:EdoAug that it should be! Documentation at https://www.kulturminnesok.no/kart/?q=239674. --Doncram (talk) 00:31, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Tycho Brache's Uranienborg was spectacular! Uraniborg is en article. It is "uranienborg" in Norwegian bokmol and in Danish or Swedish, one of them. --Doncram (talk) 01:34, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Back then I translated a few articles from Norwegian and French wikipedias partially and I "published" one or two to my Userspace. Turning on some translation tool caused a side problem in my edit window sometimes, addressed at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#editing_glitch_which_moves_cursor,_disallows_my_use_of_capital_letters. --Doncram (talk) 03:08, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

spi?

|evidence=Blazeofnoon is an inactive account. It posts this criticism of an academic, alleging fraud which cites a blog/critique website "Datacolada".

Which is the oldest, possible spi master to name a case? Blazeofnoon? anonymous ip editors? who cite datacolada at Talk:Amy Cuddy Mix of editors involved, not sure yet which side "Tim bates" is on. --Doncram (talk) 10:37, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Tapestry brick

Tapestry brick (currently a redlink) is used 40 or so times in NRHP and other articles in Wikipedia. (see this search's results). There are currently 4 inbound links to it from mainspace articles.

An article would be helpful right now for me in writing

Start Draft:Tapestry brick? Maybe/probably the topic should be added to the existing Brickwork article, which does not use the word "tapestry". A separate article could show a lot of examples though. It could survey Commons:Category:Brick buildings by country And/or by color: Commons:Category:Orange brick buildings by country‎, Commons:Red brick buildings by country‎, Commons:White brick buildings by country‎, Commons:Yellow brick buildings by country‎.

Definitions:

Per the Free Dictionary, it is: "Face brick that is laid in a decorative pattern with a combination of vertical, horizontal, and diagonal elements, such as a basket-weave bond."

Is it any brick face meant to be nice to look at? Maybe it is in effect that, it is when a brick surface is decorative, or is presented forward to be looked at? As opposed to being merely functional. How does it compare to a brick curtain / curtain-wall / curtain wall?

Jonathan D. Taylor (2013). "Tapestry Brick Dwellings: The Emergence of a Residential Type in Brooklyn". Columbia University Commons?. Defines a Tapestry brick dwelling as a thing; houses in Flatbush. Patterned brick plus other features.

--Doncram (talk) 19:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Old Temple

• chatting about need for an article, what photos wanted?
• Get that South Asia journal article, try via the wikipedia library now.

--Doncram (talk) 19:44, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

get Wikipedialibrary access (partly done)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request for individual requests for others to get something for u,

https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/partners/ are the platforms, https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/?next_url=/users/my_library/ is where to simply login, to Wikipedia Library card. Just go in there, and pick nothing or pick Jstor or Ebsco or its Newspapers one, or whichever, and u are in. No application needed. That worked, ran an author "advanced search" in Jstor. Seems to be managing by cookies or number of logins or such. And presumably it checks that user has 500 edits, enough recent edits, etc. --Doncram (talk) 08:13, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Further there is application for access to more there.

The Wikipedia Library access point brings up

Newspapers.com

• Apply for newspapers.com and/or other library access; is
  Science Direct
  access different?

• • newspapers.com application, mentioned in this diff at Talk:Cbl62 or just above.

Knock down number of drafts in Draft space and in User space

first, maintain them to avoid bot 5 month attacks

• manually revised 1st 15, through Draft:Hell Canyon Bridge on 12/9/2022, so good until May 8, 2023
• This is cumbersome, better to fire up AWB:
  • Copy pasted numbers 16 on to User:Doncram/draftslist
  • Edit there to make wikilinks: replace "Draft:" by "[[Draft:" worked. For close of brackets could perhaps try replacing "[tab]2022" by "]]", but how enter tab character?
  • In AWB, make list by sourcing to "Links on page (only bluelinks)" and links on: User:Doncram/draftslist
  • then make some small change, i couldn't see how to fully automate & replace "{{reflist}}" by "*{{reflist}}", so i just inserted a "*" at top of article. Done until May 8, 2022 knock on wood.

done until 10/10/2023

Done again, bots wont start deletion again, avoid deletion until 10/10/2023, into calendar. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 06:35, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Draft space ones

• Draft space was recently at 152, less 54 deleted = 98
• Draft space at 147 total, less 54 deleted = 93 actively in Draft, as of 2022-09-05.
• Draft space at 151 total, less 54 deleted = 97 actively in Draft, as of 2022-09-15. At least 5 new since 2022-09-05 so at least 1 promoted.
• Draft space at 154 total, less 54 deleted = 100 actively in Draft, as of 2022-09-23. 2 were promoted so there were 5 new ones created.
• Draft space at 158 total, less 54 deleted, less 6 submitted and under AfC review = 98 which could be addressed, as of 2022-10-6

The 6 at AfC review:

Draft:Swindler House

(after checking most drafts and using km tagging)

• Draft space at 163 total, less 52 deleted, less at least 6 submitted and under AFC review= 102 actively in Draft, as of 2022-12-25

The 7 at AfC review:

Draft:NOPSI New Orleans

(after check last ones and search last 3500 edits back to 3 September for "submit" in edit summary)

• Draft space at 163 total, less 52 deleted = 111 actively in Draft, as of 2023-01-06. Writers and Clarion still in AFC, other 5 have been accepted. I am not now trying to identify a number more that have been submitted. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 11:55, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
• Draft space at 182 total, less 52 deleted = 130_ actively in Draft, as of 2023-06-05
• Draft space at _ total, less _ deleted = _ actively in Draft, as of 2023-___

• Count and list of Doncram-started pages in Draft space + deleted there

how many of the drafts are submitted to AFC

For workaround, use:

[[Kinneola mesa|k]]<!-- To AFC editor: please remove this admin/maint tag when article promoted to mainspace -->

and see the list by: Special:WhatLinksHere/Kinneola_mesa

Alternatively, could use AWB or other search on "u=doncram within AFC submission, e.g. {{AfC submission|||ts=20220927183537|u=Doncram|ns=118}} as appears in this AFC-submitted version of

FOLLOWING NOT WORKING: Because I felt I have a good number submitted to AFC, I have just created Category:Pending AfC submissions by Doncram to count/track. Current count (which updates) is 0 in the category. Oh, DannyBot is disabling them; i just made request to DannyS712 to exclude this category from bot removal. Compare number submitted vs. my total in Draft (from [https://xtools.wmflabs.org/pages/en.wikipedia.org/Doncram/118 this xtools report which shows total of Draftspace articles plus deleted past ones.

• As of 2022-09-15 there should be at least 5 in the category, vs. 151 - 54 deleted =97 draftspace articles by me.
  • If the DannyS712 bot doesn't disable their category, then the following will be members:
    • Draft:Bates Log House
    • Draft:Cactus Tour
    • Draft:List of writers' halls of fame
    • Draft:St. Landry Clarion
    • Draft:Tina Peters (Colorado)

Well, even if bot is disabling, What links to Category:Pending AfC submissions by Doncram works! and shows those 5 right now, after i fixed one. --Doncram (talk) 00:47, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Template:Draft categories is what takes a list of categories in a Draft out of functioning, or being targeted. (When this was created, it caused need to update the Draft no cat script, per Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_167#DRAFTNOCAT_fix (from looking at "What links here" for the Category:AfC submissions with categories. )

Note this AFC reply (in several editgs) by me at Draft Bates Log House, where longer-than-usual quote is questioned on copyright. Architect Korn article was difficult for AFC reviewers as a list of architectural works. Another difficult one is

Now I see there is CFD proceeding which has been going on, at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_October_2#Category:Pending_AfC_submissions_by_Doncram, without informing me, about which I object. I requested copy with history there, to go to User:Doncram/Former category Pending AfC submissions by Doncram. I just copy-pasted current content (can't move it, and can't copy history) to User:Doncram/copy-pasted copy.

Doncram User space ones

• User space ones (listed out below through "J")
  • including drafts for February DYKs (February is Black History Month):
    • User:Doncram/February DYKs
    • User:Doncram/February DYKs/Camilla-Zack Community Center District see Camilla-Zack Community Center District
    • User:Doncram/February DYKs/Gillespie-Selden Historic District (created in 2020 by me), see Gillespie-Selden Historic District (created 17 August 2021‎ by me). But create Augustus S. Clark? at Draft:Augustus S. Clark and perhaps other topics in DYK draft?
    • User:Doncram/February DYKs/Main High School, Rome, Georgia, see Main High School
    • User:Doncram/February DYKs/Norris Bumstead Herndon see Norris Bumstead Herndon
    • User:Doncram/February DYKs/Thankful Baptist Church, Rome GA see Thankful Baptist Church (Rome, Georgia) and dab Thankful Baptist Church
  • Other NRHPs
    • User:Doncram/Beamer Barn, may not actually be listed Beamer Barn redirected after material merged to mainspace Beamer Barn
    • User:Doncram/Dry Lakes Plateau, California archeological site, see Dry Lakes Plateau
      already redirected in move to Draft before AFC
    • User:Doncram/Grant County Courthouse District, SW Kansas, see Grant County Courthouse District
  • American Presbyterian history list
    • User:Doncram/Buffalo Presbyterian Church (Montello, Wisconsin) see Buffalo Presbyterian Church (Montello, Wisconsin)
  • Other others:
    • User:Doncram/105 Campestre Torre A was to be merged into one that survived(?) at AFD
    • User:Doncram/105 Campestre Torre B
    • User:Doncram/Campestre 105 Torre C
    • User:Doncram/Albemarle Building see Albemarle Building
    • List of law firms
    • Bridgeport
    • User:Doncram/Camp Interlaken, see Camp Interlaken
    • User:Doncram/Cape May Brewing Company, see Cape May Brewing Company
    • User:Doncram/Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning, rework focus being main Carnegie library in Lexington, KY see Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning
    • User:Doncram/Gerald Gurian, Star Trek books, author see Gerald Gurian
    • User:Doncram/Honolulu Stake Tabernacle, see Honolulu Stake Tabernacle
    • User:Doncram/Interchanges in Pennsylvania, see Interchanges in Pennsylvania
    • User:Doncram/Jennifer Hardy CK, see Jennifer Hardy CK and Jennifer Hardy
    • User:Doncram/Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant, see Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant
    • User:Doncram/Kane-DuPage Regional Museum Association, see Kane-DuPage Regional Museum Association
    • User:Doncram/List of Jat clans, see List of Jat clans
    • List of alternative history books
    • User:Doncram/List of corrals, see Doncram/List of corrals
    • User:Doncram/List of courthouses in the United States-work, see List of courthouses in the United States-work
    • User:Doncram/List of ecovillages, see List of ecovillages
    • User:Doncram/List of hotels in Barcelona, see List of hotels in Barcelona
    • User:Doncram/List of industrial parks, see List of industrial parks
    • User:Doncram/List of largest residences in Saudi Arabia, see List of largest residences in Saudi Arabia
    • User:Doncram/List of railway stations in the United States, see List of railway stations in the United States
    • User:Doncram/List of scouting troops and service units, see List of scouting troops and service units
    • User:Doncram/Lodge lists (showed blue, shows red, and User:Doncram/Lodge lists in the search by prefix is blue, see Lodge lists.
    • User:Doncram/S.B. Barker Building, see S.B. Barker Building
    • User:Doncram/Sariaya Ancestral houses, see Sariaya Ancestral houses
    • User:Doncram/WeippePrairie, see Weippe Prairie
    • User:Doncram/Rempart Union (was showing as bluelink, now shows as redlink? published from tranlation space to here. Try User:Doncram/Rempart Union), see Rempart Union
    • User:Doncram/Montrose Lions Park (in translation space or published from there?, see Montrose Lions Park
    • User:Doncram/Peter Easton a dab page see Peter Easton and Peter Easton (disambiguation)
    • User:Doncram/William Waters (architect), see William Waters (architect). Was this just moved back and copied forth?

That was all non-redirects I think.

refine "photos requested in STATE" system

How can it be more specific than all of state of Kentucky, which is what

Talk:Clinton County High School uses {{WikiProject United States |class=Stub |KY=yes |KY-importance=Low |importance=Low |map-needed=no |image-needed=yes |image-in=Clinton County, Kentucky |image-details=Image of school logo or photo of main entrance/other notable feature}} which puts that into more specific Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Clinton County, Kentucky

NRHP Talk:Adam Pence House has "{{reqphoto|in=Kentucky}} which puts it into Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Kentucky. Can that just be directly edited? Trying, i find that {{reqphoto|in=Lincoln County, Kentucky}} puts it into Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Lincoln County, Kentucky, but that was a redlink category.... There do exist similar categories, though, such as Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Mason County, Kentucky, which currently has three members. It must be fine to go ahead and create the Lincoln County, Kentucky category, following the Mason County one's example, to include just: {{possibly empty category}} and [[Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Kentucky|Lincoln County, Kentucky]].

So...

• All the county categories could be created in advance, and be "possibly empty". The refinement to add a more specific county-level category to all NRHP photo requests could be done by a bot run probably, right?
• Would doing that be helpful to anyone? Do potential photographers check these categories? Most long-term NRHP editors do not, but rather scan the NRHP county-list-articles or the
  wp:NRHPPROGRESS
  page's reports. Would it help non-U.S. editors or potential photographers somehow, like the German ones producing NRHP articles in the DE wikipedia?
• It would be somewhat helpful perhaps if the NRHP infobox generator put the county into the suggested Talk page material.
• For myself, anyhow, when I create a new Talk page, I can just start manually adding the county name. --Doncram (talk) 05:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

what is possible for indicating "more" or "better" photos wanted?

Ask at a village pump?

update blacklist of "image existence checker" tool

For example, at Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Kentucky, the Image Existence Checker applied to requested photoos in KY erroneously lists numerous NRHPs in KY that don't have photos (such as Adam Pence House and Adams House (Salvisa, Kentucky)) as having them. This is because there's an image in a NRHP navigation template such as Template:National Register of Historic Places. The image needs to be put into a "blacklist". The image name is what? Code in the template suggests to me it could be

• File:National Register of Historic Places.jpg File:National Register of Historic Places.jpg?
• File:National Register of Historic Places.jpeg?
• File:National Register of Historic Places.png?

Just searching on "National Register of Historic Places" suggests maybe it is "File:HistoricPlacesNationalRegisterPlaque.JPG"? Just tried adding that to blacklist, will see....maybe it needs to update overnight or something though. --Doncram (talk) 05:28, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

It worked right away, dropping those two examples from its output. Output includes Beckley Jackson House, correctly identified as actually having an image, despite being in Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Kentucky. --Doncram (talk) 05:31, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

And the image appears at Portal:National Register of Historic Places. In the NRHP navigation template, the code "{{portal-inline|size=small|National Register of Historic Places}}" apparently brought that image in. --Doncram (talk) 18:47, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

single pile, double pile

• Argh, about this. If two one-room boxes are stacked vertically, but offset, as in this modern architecture thing in Mexico (if it really had just two single-pen rooms), how many rooms deep is it? One, right? But no one would ever apply "single-pile".
• If two one-room boxes are "stacked" horizontally, but offset, also no one would ever apply "single-pile". "Single-pile" only applies to one row of same-depth rooms. And, as in the definition of "Parallel", it may imply the mass has to be wider than it is deep, you can't have two deep boxes laid out like two joined pieces of a Kit Kat bar. --Doncram (talk) 23:35, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Commons file moving

Category:Media_requiring_renaming:

• move req 1: denied it, but checking with move requestor. --Doncram (talk) 02:50, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

• Moved a category this diff. I think should have checked "leave no redirect". Following https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Nominate_for_deletion, doing so now, as in this categories for discussion nomination. --Doncram (talk) 20:03, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Lists of preserved locomotives

• Draft:Preserved locomotives in Canada, relating to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of locomotives (2nd nomination)

• Reasons for NRHP listing, perhaps table by state.
  • Tax incentives national; tax incentives that vary by state or locality?
    • • KY statement of advantages of NRHP listing at: here
      • City of Omaha guidelines: Omaha Historic Preservation Guidelines
  • One reason is for consideration in Federal, other projects, an example being the 124 NRHPs and also numerous NRHP-eligible sites given weight in highway routing study: "Environmental Overview / 65-71 Regional Connector / KYTC Item 5-564.00 / Bullitt, Henry, Jefferson, Nelson, Shelby, Spencer, & Oldham Counties / May 2, 2019: https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Planning%20Studies%20and%20Reports/65-71%20Appendix%20D%20-%20Environmental%20Overview%20and%20Screening.pdf. This is seriously important protection! But that list omits
    Draft:Swindler House, i developed: "It is in study area for routing of a new highway connecting Interstate 65 and Interstate 71 avoiding Louisville."^[1]

Though it properly omitted 2 listed but gone ones: Bird Octagonal Mule Barn and Bird's Nest (Shelby County, Kentucky).

• • Shelbyville MRA (1984)^[1]
  • Shelby County MRA (1987)

• One about photos not of, wud be helpful ere RFC.
• NRHP naming. In recent editing, I recall it seemed 2 essays needed. One prompt was "Case_changes_by_Dicklyon" discussion at wt:NRHP on downcasing "Site" in names of archeological sites. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places#Case_changes_by_Dicklyon Permalink to the wt:NRHP page which has discussion 21 July to 27 July and no further updates through now, August 12. IMO, NRHP naming is a naming. It has guidelines on selecting a "best" name. The NRHP name usually sticks. More.
• The other essay topic would be about "super bullies", how widespread across topic areas, editors, and time that can be, how corrosive of community, how individual newish editors understandably perceive themselves being personally attacked, or personally focused upon, even if prolific super editor is giving equal (mean-spirited) treatment everywhere. How the 2018(?) WMF foundation action was so welcome, refreshing, provided hope, but didn't play out well? --Doncram (talk) 00:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

GNIS

Propose naming of Oakland, Union Parish and 2 cemeteries: union parish LDS geneology

other incl rfa

• a consequence for me of past crummy stuff going down, was uninformed, jerkish attack against by user:Spartaz, at "Stuff" section i posted to FloridaArmy's Talk page. See User_talk:FloridaArmy/Archive_3#stuff. --Doncram (talk) 11:39, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
• fyi, i shoulda gotten medal for patience at Talk:Bathhouse Row and discussions referenced at User:Doncram/pd back in 2007. My first big running dispute. Engaged with RFC process, notices to multiple wikiprojs, clarified plagiarism vs. copyvio. Current Bathhouse Row article remains horrible plagiarism of Laura(?) Soulliere(?) Harrison's eloquent writing. --Doncram (talk) 16:27, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
• To characterize 2009 etc running dispute, perhaps this 2009 article creation with edit summary "NRHP stub to support El Dorado Apartments disambig page" is a good example. Following and finding fault, e.g. enforcement of incorrect understanding of copyrights/plagiarism this edit "commented out excessive quotation" by
• Talk:List of RHPs in ND
  .
• Wikipedia:RFA by month is the summary by month by year.
• Notes on Requests For Admin (RFA) process:
  • I browsed Request for Arbitration going on, which mentioned:
  • this RFA on conduct in Articles for Deletion. In that I saw mention of "mud sticks", specifically citing Piotrus' comments mud sticks
  • There was this Signpost discussion report in October 2021 on "Editors brainstorm and propose changes to the Requests for adminship process"
  • A review of RFA was completed in October 2021 at Proposals. From the section on Proposal on Corrosive atmosphere, i browsed to "Responding_to_the_content_creators" in WormThatTurns(sp?) RFAdmin: some/many want candidate to have GA and FA articles. --Doncram (talk) 17:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
• Note to self from Ward School (Ward, Colorado) draft: About historic Colorado schools: "Search out other instances of "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/84127661" to be replaced by "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/84127661". Hmm have to fire up that editing program, what is it called?" (AWB)
• among citations of itsacastle, it's difficult to read tone eg scorn vs approval, someone i dunno something like "esteemed top accomplishment"
• Smartphone editing About smartphone editing, i gather i can bold by selecting a phrase then tapping the ‘bold’ icon at top of my edit window. What about:
  • vertical quote marks? (answer, per Teahouse discussion, was to adjust iPhone settings to turn off "smart punctuation")
  • French and Spanish accented letters? Oh, just tap on “special characters” at top of edit window and select, for example: éçàä.

Hmm, maybe the top-of-edit-window stuff also useful for insrting a link, rather than repeatedly selecting the square brackets characters.

Or starting a table:

For

Block quote

And other insertions, select scroll-down showing “insert”, change to “wiki markup”?

Doncram (talk) 19:42, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

• An admin negatively monitoring me? Moving a page to Draft without notification to me: here, which I only come across as continue a campaign to develop articles in KS. --Doncram (talk) 02:27, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
  • “some never learn” applicable back to them. —Doncram (talk) 20:27, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:BrownHairedGirl/Archive/Archive_046 abuse in response to polite inquiry; ignorance how edit conflicts cam work
• Go back and create a full
  Early Commercial architecture page (currently a redirect to NRHP styles). Need to discuss general usage and also the specialized Prairie style precursor(?) usage. Add to Carpenter Building (Sioux Falls, South Dakota)
  for example.
• Vitrolight (currently a redlink), needed in Carpenter Building (Sioux Falls, South Dakota), elsewhere.
• Hyphen vs. dash in NRHP names, again, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#Hyphen or endash?
  • List includes Howe-Quimby House, for which "The main block of the house was built between 1766 and 1784 by David Howe, and sold to Jonathan Quimby in 1784". If it has long been known as the Howe-Quimby House, say in usage in 1800s, then hyphen is correct usage. If long-term usage is with hyphen, it doesn't matter that you think people in the 1800s should have used an en-dash. The usage we do know about is in the NRHP document, which uses hyphen in name it suggests for the place, and also in the text also terms it the "Howe/Quimby House". We don't know of any usage involving an en-dash.
  • In 2018 discussion "Dash fix list" here at wt:NRHP, Dicklyon found Howe-Waffle House and Carriage House named for Dr. Willella Howe-Waffle, and I see the current list does not propose to change that. In Dicklyon's review, they found about twenty percent seemed to require hyphens. If the other 80 percent were then changed to en-dash, then now the proportion of names using hyphen correctly is now higher.

in 2021

• Use Field Guide to Colorado's Historic Architecture & Engineering (1983, 2008) in articles, including I think we need a Vernacular Queen Anne architecture article. --Doncram (talk) 21:38, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
• Develop Boulder Post Office article more with source on Boulder's early history given by Bkissin at its Talk page. And maybe use that source to add to other Boulder articles.
• Try to use BKissin-provided "Industrial Utopia" source about Pueblo, Colorado, more than just in Galligan House article. Historitecture - City of Pueblo.--Doncram (talk) 21:11, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
• Rework, after move succeeded 6/12/2021, Colorado Department of Highways.
• DENVL Denver landmarks implement into NRHP infoboxes, develop List of Denver landmarks. Template:Designation/colour2 changed, etc.
• visit Boarding House (disambiguation) which now has what should be start of a List of boarding houses. Add more NRHP ones from elkman.net; There is no Category:Boarding houses? Bogan one is in a category of hotels. Maybe boarding houses could be a sub-category of that, but should be identified as boarding houses.
• National Archives/NPS approach? Copyright issues, document issues.
  • Note 1996-listed Thomas R. Pierce House has associated Youtube which appears copyvio / plagiarism reading of the NRHP document (Sherry Piland (December 1995). National Register of Historic Places Registration: Thomas R. Pierce House / Pierce Hotel. National Archives. Retrieved February 16, 2021. Includes plans and 13 photos from 1994.(Downloading may be slow.) ) The Thomas R. Pierce (Historical) House in Bushnell (Sumter county) Florida USA ~ ca. 1888, Youtube video, December 2020. Reasonable thing to create, can this be done legally?

• Healdsburg list, AFD-nommed by me, was deleted, restarted in Draft.
• Sonoma County Historical Society list, AFD-nommed by me, I'm taking a copy as of 2/16/2021 to User:Doncram/sandboxSCHSlist in case I want to browse in future about what it did include. And copy of it at its peak on 1/24/2021 (including cemeteries and other later deleted by Srich, at User:Doncram/sandboxSCHSlistBiggestVersion2021-01-24.
• Try, at User:Doncram/sandboxSonomaBigMap, to link in all the separate lists and generate the GeoGroup map? Works great!
  • Another test finds hiding the tables works too: User talk:Doncram/sandboxSonomaBigMap. Yay.
• wp:NRHPHELPNARA
• Category:One-room schoolhouses ... in the U.S. expanded Alabama thru part of Arkansas; Louisiana; Michigan; Wisconsin; Wyoming; Puerto Rico, so far as of 2021-02-07.
• Category:Two-room schoolhouses growing in the process. User talk:MB, Draft:Two-room schoolhouses.
• Z Street, related pages. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Z Street
  .
• Just noticed Wikipedia:Community health initiative on English Wikipedia/User Mute features! Seems helpful to be able to "mute" editors verging over into harassment. I have been annoyed by what I perceive as deliberately rude pings sent my way by chief 2020 self-appointed person of that type. --Doncram (talk) 06:04, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
• How to fix placement of badly "sandwiched" photos, at Cunningham-Hembree Estate, thanks MB! --Doncram (talk) 05:54, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

in 2020

• perhaps an essay on merits of explicitly stating and disproving false claims that a given place is the oldest, only, biggest, or other superlative; i just expressed my view at Talk:Irgandı Bridge#coverage of false claim (that this is one of only 4 bridges, world-wide, carrying shops). have many many examples in U.S. historic sites, including the one about a casa in (Monterrey?) California being the first 2-story building in the state. How on earth would the claimant know? But cumulatively Wikipedia editors develop knowledge of counter-examples disproving the statement. I do think it is useful to state a prominent local claim, or one prominent in otherwise-authoritative documentation (i.e. in a NRHP nomination document), and to disprove it explicitly. Comment on appropriate tone in doing that.
• a Bridges with buildings or similarly named list-article would be useful. See Category:Bridges with buildings; there are separate claims in coverage for a number of them that this is one of very few, e.g. Alte Nahebrücke (Bad Kreuznach): "With four houses on its piers, it is one of the few remaining bridges in the world that has buildings on it." (Brückenhäuser, Alte Nahebrücke, Neustadt | Bad Kreuznach Archived 2019-08-24 at the Wayback Machine on www.romantic-germany.info (in English). Retrieved 14 June 2018 ) And that one's "houses" include shops, at least now, e.g. see File:BadKreuznachMannheimerstrasse90.jpg showing an Ad Opticum (eyeware & opticians) shop. Of course it is natural that buildings along a street with lots of passersby, as is the case for bridges, would become shops if not started out that way; it is likely highest and best use of that very special real estate.
• was working on
  List of Roman Catholic churches in the United Kingdom
• was working on Leicester lists including List of Roman Catholic churches in Leicester

f*

• pinged within case request (Levivich? within this version) involving likely new editor sock(s) showing up in ANIs vs. me.

past

• wp:NRHPPROGRESS
• wp:NRHPHELP
• wt:NRHP#Gas station drive / List of historic filling stations
• wt:NRHP#Fire stations / List of fire stations / Category:Historic sites in progress
  18, updated occasionally.
• about The Church Studio photo: User_talk:Raghun_Baba#Oklahoma_NRHPs and [8].
• wt:NRHP#Railway roundhouses List of railway roundhouses
  expansion of U.S. section
• List of railway stations in the United States, as part of worldwide List of railway stations. Draft: User:Doncram/List of railway stations in the United States
• User:Doncram/Covered bridges
  • wp:RAILOUTCOMES. RAILOUTCOMES does not say what Mackenson asserted it says. It says heavy line stations usually are notable. There is Wikipedia:Notability (Railway lines and stations)
    which covers that, basically, most stations are not notable.
• User talk:A Texas Historian#Fillmore County NRHPs / Project Fillmore County / NRHP list
• Revisit User:Doncram/NRHP disambiguation/checklist to create more needed disambiguation pages, like Peak House just done
• wp:AWNB#Historic register list-articles task force

The goal would be to get downloads of databases, and hopefully additional resources like coordinates for sites and urls for documents, and use them to generate good list-articles that would provide basic coverage of all the state-level sites. Each list-article row should perhaps include a properly formed reference to the state register page for each item and to any more specific documents available. The project should support easier generation of articles, e.g. by providing standardized infoboxes/articles drafts and references, perhaps in copy-paste-ready form akin to what U.S. editor User:Elkman provides at an independent-from-wikipedia website.

There are a few people who could participate:

From the outside, I don't think the decision problems are too hard to handle. It would take a long time to get done, but perhaps not too much programming effort, and I think it would be very beneficial. It could attract wide readership and some participation from the public, e.g. to submit up photos during each year's Wikipedia loves Monuments drive, during which period there would be an easy-to-use "upload photo" button at each list-article row not already having a pic.

{{Infobox NRHP | name = | nrhp_type = | image = | caption = | location= [[Crystal, Colorado]] | coordinates = {{coord||||N||||W|display=inline,title}} | locmapin = Colorado#USA | architecture = | added = | area = less than one acre | refnum = <ref name="nris">{{}}</ref> }} ==See also== *[[National Register of Historic Places listings in Gunnison County, Colorado]] ==References== {{reflist}} ==External links== {{commons category|}} {{National Register of Historic Places}} [[Category:National Register of Historic Places in Gunnison County, Colorado]] {{Colorado-NRHP-stub}}

current(ish) issues

• Talk:List of RHPs in WV
• List of RHPs in TX
  :
  • User:Doncram/National Register of Historic Places listings in the Texas Panhandle
  • User:Doncram/National Register of Historic Places listings in Texas (A) User:Doncram/National Register of Historic Places listings in Texas (A)
  • User:Doncram/National Register of Historic Places listings in Texas (C)
  • various Texas maps at UTexas
  • User:Doncram/National Register of Historic Places listings in Texas (singletons and doubletons) (B) User:Doncram/National Register of Historic Places listings in Texas (B)
  • User:Doncram/Proposal on organizing lists of places in Texas
• Unwanted substubs generated out of working lists
  • Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/South Portland Historic District followup: do the merger/redirect
  • User talk:Ritchie333 about closure of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/South Portland Historic District, -> deletion review on kicking cans
  • ANI seems to be best venue about generating substub articles out of lists, develop User:Doncram/Unwanted substubs 2018
• Covered bridges. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#Covered bridges
• Train stations:
  • wp:ANI#Bullying about train stations (to be opened). Draft at User:Doncram/Train station issues
    .
  • Talk:Bristol station (Virginia), tag teaming
  • Talk:Lester Depot moved, no following contention
  • Talk:Little Falls and Dakota Depot move back concluded;
  • recent contributions by Mackensen], admin since 2004, and was an arbitrator
  • recent contributions by Cuchullain], admin since 2005
  • articles which were moved: User:Doncram/Train station issues
  • Address
    wp:USSTATION
    having been designated a guideline, having been used to argue for notability and for moves. RFC?
• Finish out auto dealership list-article and category? i.e. work through Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#NRHP Gas station drive list. Or is that well enough done? well enough done  Done

find my articles in userspace and in draftspace

[full copy of question asked and answered 5/17/2021] Hi Teahousers, glad you're here doing what you do. Quick (i hope) questions:

1. How can I see a list of articles in my userspace? I know this can be done somehow, maybe even from navigating links on the left-hand-side of my interface, but i never recorded how.
2. Similarly, is there some easy way to see all articles started by me which are in Draftspace. Or possibly even all Draftspace articles edited by me. I have a lot out there which I have not indexed/tracked.

Thanks in advance! Please ping me in reply if possible. Doncram (talk) 15:33, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@Doncram: For #1, put prefix:User:Doncram directly in the search box, or alternatively, use Special:PrefixIndex. For #2, try XTools. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 15:40, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@Doncram: Missed a part of your question. The XTools link above is for draftspace articles you created. This link is a tally of all your edits in the draftspace. Note that drafts that have since been moved won't show up here. XTools has a lot of other cool statistics for you to play around as well. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 15:51, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

(e/c) Hi Doncram. If you go to your contributions, you will find a link at the bottom of the page labeled "Articles created", which will result in this search playing out. If you want to isolate pages you've created in a different namespace, such as the draft namespace, you can go directly to the tool, here, enter your username and change the default from "Main" to draft, resulting in this search of article created by you as drafts. To permanently have a link to that search, you can save that link at your userpage.

Although you could use this tool to find pages in your userspace as well, another option is to go to the same set of contribution links, and click on "Subpages", which will result in this prefix index search playing out, showing all pages existing in your userspace. If you might have created some subpages in your user talk namespace, you can change the search parameter to "User talk". Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:52, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Wow, thanks, that answers all my questions! Am copying these responses to where I will be able to find them. I was right there is a "subpages" link to select somewhere, but i could never find it, it seems bizarre to me that it shows up when select "contributions" (at least when at my own userpage?). Thanks for all the info. It helps me right away; i do have a lot of articles in Draft space that I want to get back to, besides when getting notified they're up for G7(?) deletion. --Doncram (talk) 19:34, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Interactions with User:Fram, often unpleasant, as at

[Copied from my Q & others' A's at Commons help, at here as of 8/2022 I have found myself putting notes like "This is about [[w:Moravia Union Cemetery]]" into commons Category:Moravia Union Cemetery, and similarly, because it is immediately helpful for my own navigating back and forth between Wikipedia article and corresponding Commons category, as i develop both. In the Wikipedia article, the link to Commons cat is by "template:Commons category-inline|Moravia Union Cemetery" or similar. Surely there is a standard template for going from Commons category to Wikipedia article? (But apparently that is neither "template:about" nor "template:main", which have different uses.) Pls ping me in any reply. Thanks in advance! --Doncram (talk) 17:18, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I think the usual approach is to use the sitelinks from Wikidata, which appear both in the "In Wikipedia" category on the left of the page (assuming the standard skin) and in the {{Wikidata Infobox}} on the right in the form of the "Wikipedia" link near the top. There do seem to be a selection of templates for linking to Wikipedias as well. Ones I've found with a quick search are {{On Wikipedia}}, {{Mainw}}, and {{See also w}}. --bjh21 (talk) 19:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

@Doncram: A problem with linking via Wikidata is that Wikidata links Commons categories to Wikipedia categories when the latter exist. Then there will not be a sitelink to the Commons category from the Wikipedia article, nor vice versa. There was some discussion about this when Wikidata was introduced on Commons, but consistency was valued higher than usability. There may still be some tools (including templates) to overcome this. –LPfi (talk) 12:42, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

You could use Template:Mainw, in use at Category:Rolls-Royce Merlin. Template:En does a similar thing. Nimbus227 (talk) 17:46, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

How get AWB to select certain NRHP-listed schools in Colorado? (copied from AWB tasks page

Hi there... I haven't used AutoWikiBrowser/AWB for years, but just downloaded it and tried it without success. What am I doing wrong? What I want to do is replace the string "http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/64500075.pdf" or similar by "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/84127661", and make some manual edits also, in perhaps 100 articles on historic schoolhouses in Colorado. I applied "Make list" to identify the 2638 or so articles within 5 recursive levels of Category:National Register of Historic Places in Colorado. I set Skip to omit articles where text Doesn't contain: "Rural School Buildings in Colorado" (after I first tried setting Skip to where text Doesn't contain: "64500075.pdf", which also failed). I did not put quote marks into the field, should i have? And it will Skip if Page doesn't exist. And then I ran it by selecting Start tab and hitting Start button. It just goes through the list without pausing on any page, while I know it should stop on some pages like "Gas Creek School" and "Coates Creek Schoolhouse". What am I missing, why doesn't it stop?

And also, I don't see how to use the replace function which is apparently under Options / Find and replace. I don't see where to enter the text string to be replaced or where to enter the text to be replaced. I would like for the full string replacement to be done on a given page, with it still allowing me to make other manual changes. Help!

Thanks in advance for any advice offered. :) --Doncram (talk) 00:10, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Update: It partly works, I find, after I further tried two changes:

• changing my default edit summary so that it did not use quote marks or a semi-colon. My edit summary was something like: 'fix link to MPS "Rural Schools in Colorado"; perhaps other edits too', which I changed to 'fix link to MPS Rural Schools in Colorado and perhaps other edits too'. Though I don't see how or my that would matter. And
• changing Options to turn off the three types of automatic changes: "Auto tag", "Apply general fixes", and "Unicodify whole page" (though I thought those would just be supplemental changes to be done on a page meeting my criteria, and I believe it is supposed to be good to make those changes in the same edit as a more substantial change, like I am "supposed to" have those done.

Now it stopped on Coates Creek Schoolhouse which I just manually edited. And I let it run to find some more and did a few more edits, but then quit leaving more yet to be addressed. Why did it choose to stop on the right pages now? And still, how can i set up the find and replace? --Doncram (talk) 00:21, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

So my first concern is that you haven't figured out how to do the find and replace, because that is the heart of this task. So you want to set the check mark by "Find and replace" and then click on "Normal settings". Enter just the old URL you are trying to replace as the "Find" column on the first line. Then put the new URL on the same line in the "Replace with" column. That's it, just click OK. Once you are back at the Options tab, check the box to "Skip if no replacement". Under the Skip tab, make sure the bottom radio button for "doesn't exist" is selected, and deselect any of the checkboxes that might be selected by default - they can really only screw up your run. Hit start and use the "Skip" and "Save" buttons to make the changes as each page loads up. It should only stop on the pages that actually have the old URL on it, and you'll be able to make your own judgement whether to replace on that page or not.

WpWS

00:38, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Well, I still don't get what made it start stopping on the right pages. This edit from AWB shows that the default summary's usage of semi-colon and quotes doesn't seem to matter. And it is working when the three default Automatic changes are left on. But thank you very much for the instruction on how to do the search and replace! It is working great. :) --Doncram (talk) 01:35, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

@Doncram: Another thing you can do is go to Options > Preferences and select "Enable Logging". After you process a list, you can look at the "Logs" tab to see why AWB skipped a given article, and then tweak your settings appropriately. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 16:21, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

museum associations and/or KDRMA

I requested and got copy of deleted KDRMA article from AFD closer.

Hi, could you please "refund" to me a full copy (with edit history) of Kane-DuPage Regional Museum Association to my userspace. This relates to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kane-DuPage Regional Museum Association which you closed "delete". I want to consider developing it better, which User:RoySmith suggested i might do, or perhaps to use in creating a different page about museum associations that have "passport" / shared admission/marketing programs, more generally. There exists a category about them, but no main page about them. Which could give the KDRMA as an example, whether or not it has a separate article. I'm not sure, i'd like to consider that.--Doncram (talk) 14:55, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

@Doncram: Glad to! You'll find it at User:Doncram/Kane-DuPage Regional Museum Association. Thanks for all your work! 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 15:17, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

• Museum association (redlink now)
• List of museum associations (redlink now)
• Category:Museum associations and consortia now has 30 direct members and 7 subcategories.

tone stuff

Mentions by Blueraspberry and some by Colin in this ANI page, about preference for positive tone in MED stuff, undermining thereof, AI approaches to characterizing tone, theory about big public spaces needing to be positive, smaller ones where editors self-select to a tone they like, more interesting stuff. Also link to Tone policing, which seems different. --Doncram (talk) 02:05, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

essay: top-down or bottom-up?

Which is better for development of extensive list-systems like that for the NRHPs in the U.S.? Sure, go ahead and list out all the members. Like Australia historic sites are doing? But then what? a) Develop those list-articles, make them better, create short descriptions with sources for each? e.g. National Register of Historic Places listings in Waukesha County, Wisconsin, or b) create short articles, with sources, and hope later to bring back summaries/excerpts of relatively interesting factoids (then not needing sources in those summaries)? Argument for A, argument for B. Probably real advantages for both. A better for not having ridiculously stubby articles? wp:TOPDOWNORBOTTOMUP? wp:TopDownOrBottonUp? --Doncram (talk) 06:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

sort of started at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Methodist churches in Leicester#further lists to AFD after this AFD is closed: top-down vs. bottom-up --Doncram (talk) 20:42, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

notability of news media

Per discussion in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Jackson Herald, me and E.M. Gregory, where someone disagreeing about the need for it helps to prove the point of its need. --Doncram (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

In this edit, editor Peteforsyth called attention to me and Rosiestep about previous essay/notability guideline draft, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Newspapers/Notability. --Doncram (talk) 19:01, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

And Cullen328. What is difference in their M.O.'s? Both provide substantial sourcing into AFDs, right? --Doncram (talk) 06:17, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

And Cunard. [User talk:Cunard#New format for AfD]. Theirs have been long, were objected to at ANI i think, because they were so effective and no deletionist liked it when C showed up, IMHO. --Doncram (talk) 06:28, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

And

• Within
  wp:NRIS info issues NM. Correspond to Santa Fe office to address all the NM issues? --Doncram (talk
  ) 15:32, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• Camino Real in New Mexico: about 14 out of about 16 are "Address Restricted", inappropriately IMO, perhaps to a point of being completely nonsensical. This is a public roadway, part of modern streets systems, well-known for the most part. Though perhaps there may be less-known portions in remote areas, I am not sure. I know of no evidence that any portion could be damaged in any way by more clarity. --Doncram (talk) 21:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

bridges lists links

Finish links to/from List of bridges in the United States vs. NRHP bridges lists

Cape May Brewing Company

I requested restoration of Cape May Brewing Company article to mainspace or to my userspace, so that I may develop it using sources identified in deletion review plus sources already in article or mentioned in its AFD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cape May Brewing Company. It seems the article was perhaps too promotional, but many editors including deletion review closer suggested it could be re-established at least if too-promo-ish-ness is overcome. Was restored to: User:Doncram/Cape May Brewing Company by User:Hut 8.5. --doncram 7/4/2019

Redpath Chautauqua etc

Develop articles redlinked from

User:Doncram/Camp Interlaken, revisit, add more about Camp Coniston YMCA camp and connection to Churchill not-winston. Rebated to me upon [9].--Doncram (talk) 22:55, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Mormon churches, tabernacle architecture

• Trend to use non-Mormon architects not completely successful; several examples where created, looked bad to me, and were not kept.
• "The Randolph Tabernacle, constructed between 1898 and 1914 by members of the

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is architecturally significant as the best example of Victorian Eclectic religious architecture both in the town of Randolph and in Rich County. Though its design, materials and construction were provided primarily through local efforts, the building reflects the IDS church-wide trend at that time toward more eclectic and expressive styles than those used in either previous or subsequent periods. Though not yet fully understood, that architectural trend has been described as symbolizing the concurrent shift of the IDS church from an attitude of isolationism' to an embracing of national ideas." --Randolph Tabernacle NRHP doc.

See also NRHP list links

I just did See also links for all municipalities in western Puerto Rico, to link to the corresponding NRHP list-table, per my comments with The Eloquent Peasant. Also do:

• National Register of Historic Places listings in southern Puerto Rico
• National Register of Historic Places listings in northern Puerto Rico
• National Register of Historic Places listings in eastern Puerto Rico
• National Register of Historic Places listings in central Puerto Rico
• National Register of Historic Places listings in San Juan, Puerto Rico
• VI St. Croix, VI St. Thomas, VI other one.

--Doncram (talk) 18:07, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

industrial parks

Was deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of industrial parks by size, January 2919, i requested & got it restored ( second request, oops, at very bottom). At User:Doncram/List of industrial parks now. Next:

• move to List of industrial parks by size
• move to List of industrial parks
• redirect to Industrial park#List of industrial parks
• create anchor there and merge material

--Doncram (talk) 21:45, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

wv regions

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Archive 67
• User:Doncram/National Register of Historic Places listings in Mountain Lakes region, West Virginia

Pennsylvania interchanges

User:Doncram/Interchanges in Pennsylvania is copy in my userspace of deleted article, per the bottom comment here at AFD closer's page and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Interchanges in Pennsylvania. There is material to be merged to national list-article, and it might be moved to Interchanges in Pennsylvania and redirected to the national page, if not restored as a separate article (if it has more sources and development). --Doncram (talk) 21:48, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

User talk:Ritchie333/Archive 90#Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Interchanges in Pennsylvania was February discussion with closer, see their comment. --Doncram (talk) 21:54, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Gallery formating

Gallery with mode=packed as at Tripp County Veteran's Memorial, shown to me by User:MB and done at Manthey Barn too, instead of my usual stacking up of thumb: ==Gallery== <gallery mode=packed> File:Manthey barn (Tripp Co SD) from E 1.JPG File:Manthey barn (Tripp Co SD) from E 2 long.JPG </gallery>

==Gallery==

<gallery mode=packed> File:Manthey barn (Tripp Co SD) from E 1.JPG File:Manthey barn (Tripp Co SD) from E 2 long.JPG </gallery>

photos not of, photo quality, photo requests

• Brown Hall (Socorro, New Mexico) is one with a nice pic, closer in, but it doesn't show the Spanish Colonial whatever that would be evident from further out?
• any of several examples from Category:Saltbox architecture in Utah, where we can't see the saltbox! --Doncram (talk) 06:06, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

For Hugo Public Library (new article now) there was a photo of the modern replacement in the NRHP county list-article since 2016 (added by this edit in 2016 by User:Michael Barera (sp?). I removed that from the list-article by this edit. It turns out the old, NRHP-listed building still exists, and could have been photographed if anyone had known a photo was needed. --Doncram (talk) 21:58, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

A photo contributed in 2014 was incorrectly believed to be of this house. It covered the house next door, at 1233, not 1231, Paseo de Peralta, in Santa Fe. I am requesting it to be renamed at Commons. Actually you can see a tiny bit of the Digneo-Valdes House in the left of the photo. :) I removed it to the Talk page. --Doncram (talk) 14:30, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Diff of Doncram removing photo of chainlink fence and shrubberies, where photo of the hidden hacienda is wanted, would probably require permission of owner to go onto property. This photo by User:Roland Penttila in 2012. New article Juan Cristobal Armijo Homestead includes the photo, but not in the NRHP infobox, with caption about the fact of hacienda being hidden.

Photos not of the NRHP-listed resource: [10]. Other October 20, 2018 edits. Monticello (Cynthiana, Kentucky)

As opposed to Tamanoeconomico uploading old pic, e.g. for Marion Allsup House. --Doncram (talk) 05:00, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

As an exception, garbage cans as categorized at commons, i completely dropped. a different editor disagreed, restored garbage cans pic, and added it to HD article that i created. Note commons category "Trash cans in the United States" added by photo uploader in the upload edit.

this edit removes a pic for John McGee House of a plaque, not the house, not related to most other photo issues.

[:File:Elias Rymill House from west.jpg], funny, in National Register of Historic Places listings in Bourbon County, Kentucky.

"why was this user unbannerd?", one of 20 October 2018 edits, restored [:File:Bayless Quarters through the trees.jpg]. Which i had previously removed to the article i created for the property, noting there that the house behind the trees was "A building on the property, not the National Register-listed quarters", which has not been disputed. In the list-article, i had put in hidden comment <!---- pic of the National Register contributing building(s) wanted --->. User:Christopher L. Riley later (?) visited the county, taking pics on August 2018, contributed a number of pics for the county, replacing some existing ones in edits of Nov 2018 and Jan 2019. Reasonable to think they might have been misdirected to not seek needed photos where there appeared to be coverage already. James Kiser House, Hopkins House (North Middletown, Kentucky) (currently redlinks) there also have pics merely of site, not of NRHP-listed buildings, need removal from list-article when i create separate articles for them. (as of 15 Apr 2019).

This Bayless quarters came up in some ANI incident, I think it was.

And i have again removed that pic not of the slave quarters. Hard to drive a wooden stake into these things. Hopefully these 2 edits by me removing NRHP identifiers and requesting name change over at Commons will do the trick. Maybe removing NRHP numbers etc. from pics of vacant-lots-not-the-NRHP-building is necessary everywhere else? --Doncram (talk) 05:49, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

The photo has not been restored, yay. Perhaps the ANI incident could be found with searching on the old file name before it was renamed at Commons. --Doncram (talk) 17:10, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Unrelated removal by me of a photo not of the NRHP-listed building in Montana, for Forkenbrock Funeral Home, 26 April 2019.

2009 addition by nyttend of a historic photo into the infobox and 2012 later addition of a photo of the site of former school outside the infobox, yahoo.

old photo newly uploaded by Ipoellet, for a demolished structure in AZ

june 18, 2018 edits: [11].

Feb 2019 edits too

a diff editor adding pic of replacement bridge outside infobox. I just removed it from county list article. It was added 2016 there by same editor, and renamed. There are historic pics inlist-article incl. this PA state one with assertion it is regarded as in public domain by PA

• June 22 2019 not, just an entrance, in VA, see at least one other in list-article.
• this kind of request at Talk for a pic of the historic resource, in 2020 is an option. Who sees ever tho.

• It seems to me that an RFC to be closed by non-involved admin would be only approach forward, to get any discussion and decision, on photos not of the subject.

• For National Register of Historic_Places listings in Coshocton County, Ohio in 2017 i removed "photo not of" the subject of Old Union School in this edit with edit summary "rm photo of not-the-historic-building; let's hold out for a photo of the actual historic building."; about 2 months later Nyttend in this edit with summary "Restore image of the site: this is standard practice" restored photo and removed my hidden comment linking to discussion/evidence at Talk:Old Union School (Coshocton, Ohio). Note Nyttend might have, but did not, then dispute whether the photo was incorrect or not; they seemed to accept/acknowledge it was a photo of the "site" not the historic resource. --Doncram (talk) 16:00, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

On the other hand Nyttend did add caption "front of the school" in this edit in 2017, perhaps to muddy waters in potentially continuing dispute, related to DRVs of 2013 (Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2013 February 11, Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2013 February 10, and arbitration case then in progress (see workshop page)). Or perhaps they did come to actually believe it was the school, and the front of it (but that seems implausible as what school has no front door?, among other implausibilities). --Doncram (talk) 12:47, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Evidence at talk page was strong that the photo was incorrect. In 2022, NRHP doc is now available at NARA, conclusively proves photo is not of the school. Doc available at https://catalog.archives.gov/id/71987271 by very slow download. Reference incorporating it added just now by me to the article. The incorrect photo remains in the county list-article at this point. --Doncram (talk) 17:10, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Eagles Temple (Akron, Ohio) has photo not of.

• Photo quality: File:Audubon_School_in_Henderson.jpg of Audubon School in Henderson KY is merely a view of end of building, had effect of cutting off quest for pics, and since then the school, whose front facade appears quite grand in Google streetview imagery from 2019, has been demolished. 5 black & white photos in NRHP registration show more, though aren't great. It woulda been good to get a good set of pics documenting the place, esp. the full Romanesque front. Rats. --Doncram (talk) 12:38, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

address restricted images and locations

Some/many like images. Long slow edit war going on?

• Removal of address restricted images, as fighting "censorship" and "statistics-skewing", e.g. this diff for Dona Ana County, New Mexico. Mixed with other plausibly okay revisions to date presentation, etc. I am not sure if "censorship" is about pics? The "statistics-skewing" can only be about
  wp:NRHPPROGRESS
  reporting which is non-official, non-mainspace. No rewards, recognition there.
• a January 2019 removal example, with edit summary saying list-article is not 100 percent illustrated, please don't try to make it seem so. Well, it depends on your perspective. Should a Wikiproject work page, and perception that editors might be trying to game that, drive what is presented in mainspace? --Doncram (talk) 00:18, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

• Example this diff labelled "removing vandalism" about location of an address restricted site on Oahu. Apparently re-adding a source which identifies the location, removing accurate assertion of "Address restricted" by NRIS/NRHP. --Doncram (talk) 20:58, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

That was a reversion of this edit in 2015(?) by Fortguy. --Doncram (talk) 21:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

• St. John United Methodist Church, added and deleted before, including "Why was this disruptive user's topic ban removed?" That editor not active; deleted just now again by me. --Doncram (talk
  ) 02:07, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

• this, one of many driving away(?) Ohconfucious good date fixes and dash fixes, why?
• "don't deviate from NRIS' why? better ship name, not all caps.
• Buckridge Ranch House is 5 miles from Point Arena, why suppress "vic." or "vicinity" as accurate qualification in same Mendocino list?
• [12] assertion that "vicinity" impairs sorting of locations; i disagree.

cats

cats diff along with this non-discussion at Talk about importing a sentence. which still exists there. Was added there in this diff, opaque note 21 jan 2009. No discussion in archive? See section '"Look before you leap" is inaccurate'. Preceded by 'PROPOSAL: A moratorium and a '. B, N at this and that link/vers link.

• a RL cat revised by diff ed np
• a decent response, not answered, shows prob.
• When i create an article about a newspaper, not my usual territory, someone else just comes and refines/fixes without attacking: history. --Doncram (talk) 22:48, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

"Because I'd ask whether we are seriously considering indeffing someone for creating a duplicate category. Drmies" within wp:ANI as of 4/15/2020.

categories stuff

• [13] bhg stuff, they never responded. i deleted a previous post or 2 of theirs.
• [14] or Special:WantedCategories, mentioned here.
• User talk:BrownHairedGirl/Archive/Archive 046 contains personal attack, with silly justification. The wikimedia software did not prevent an edit conflict from removing a comment, big whup, and gross generalization.
• direct personal attack

sample references

Historic districts with NPSFocus type reference:

{{Under construction|date=May 7, 2024}} |coordinates={{coord||source:NOTNRIS2013a|display=inline,title}} The ''' Historic District''' in [[, Georgia]] is a {{convert||acre|ha}} [[historic district (United States)|historic district]] which was listed on the [[National Register of Historic Places]] in 19. The listing included [[contributing buildings]], [[contributing structures]], and [[contributing sites]].<ref name=nris/> [[Category:NRHP in progress|GA]] [[Category:Historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places in Georgia (U.S. state)]]

The ''' ''' is a [[historic district (United States)|historic district]] which was listed on the [[National Register of Historic Places]] in .<ref name=nris/>

The {{convert||acre|ha}} listed area included [[contributing buildings]] and contributing structures and contributing sites. <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=}}|title=National Register of Historic Places Registration: |publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author= |date= |accessdate=May 7, 2024}} With {{NRHP url|id=|photos=y|title=photos from }}.</ref>

Kalispell, Montana MPS ones: <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|title=National Register of Historic Places Continuation: |url={{NRHP url|id= }}|publisher=[[National Park Service]]|accessdate=May 7, 2024|author=Kathy McKay |date=June 1993}}</ref><ref name=mps>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=64500341}} |title=National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Documentation: Historic and Architectural Properties of Kalispell, Montana|publisher=[[National Park Service]] |author=Kathy McKay |date=June 1993 |accessdate=May 7, 2024}}</ref>

Jerome County, Idaho ones:
The ''' ''', near [[Jerome, Idaho]], is a [[lava rock]] structure built in 19. It was listed on the [[National Register of Historic Places]] in 1983.<ref name=nris/> <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=}}|title=Idaho State Historical Society Inventory: Ben Laughlin Water Tank House-Garage|publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author= |date=1983 |accessdate=May 7, 2024}} With {{NRHP url|id=|photos=y|title=photo from 1979}}.</ref>
[[Category:Lava rock buildings and structures]]

Featured property type: <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url= |title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: |publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author= |date= |accessdate=May 7, 2024}} With photos.</ref>

Virgin Islands Talk page:
{{WikiProject National Register of Historic Places|class=stub|importance=low}}
{{WikiProject Caribbean|class=stub|importance=low|United States Virgin Islands=yes|United States Virgin Islands-importance=low}}
{{WikiProject United States Territories|class=stub|importance=low}}
{{reqphoto|in=the United States Virgin Islands}}

National Archives Catalog version: To reference the NRHP document you have found, you need a permalink to the document, which is by use of the "National Archives Identifier" for the property. This is a different number than the NRHP reference number. E.g. for Muskegon Historic District, having reference number 72000647, the archives identifier is 25340169. You can see this number in the results from searching by the refnum. The NRHP document for that property is at permalink https://catalog.archives.gov/id/25340169. A model reference for cut-and-paste usage is: <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url=https://catalog.archives.gov/id/ |title=National Register of Historic Places Registration: |publisher=National Archives |author= |date= | accessdate=May 7, 2024 }} {{NationalArchivesNote}}</ref>

Louisiana version (and Louisiana search site): <ref name=ladoc>{{cite web|url=http://www.crt.state.la.us/dataprojects/hp/nhl/attachments/ |title= |publisher=State of Louisiana's Division of Historic Preservation |author= |date= |accessdate=May 7, 2024 }} with [http://www.crt.state.la.us/dataprojects/hp/nhl/view.asp?ID= photos and maps]</ref>

| mpsub = {{NRHP url|id=64x00xxx|title= MPS}}

<ref name=mps>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=64}} |title=National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Documentation: |publisher=[[National Park Service]] |author= |date= |accessdate=May 7, 2024 }}</ref>

==External links== * {{Commons category-inline|Tifton Commercial Historic District}}

<ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url= |title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: |publisher=National Archives |author= |date= }} (accessible by searching within [https://catalog.archives.gov/id/40972550 National Archives Catalog])</ref>

It is a two-story brick building, 80 by 155 feet (24 m × 47 m), with Classical Revival features:
{{convert|80|x|155|ft|m|}}

1. List item 1
2. List item 2
2851. List item 2851, using #<li value="2851"> per NationalRegisterBot updating NRIS-only list

{{convert|NNNN|acre}} <- placeholder for area, displays nothing, per Johnuniq edit at Ochlocknee Missionary Baptist Church and Cemetery. Can this be done for {{coord}} too?

Classical Revival vs. Neoclassical

Very odd, reply but instant deletion: here. --doncram 05:48, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

issue of multiple outgoing links looking the same

About NRHP list-articles, but this AFD

• McClintock House ones both in Lee County, Arkansas NRHP list-article. 2019 diff, 2017 diff, probably more previously.

add 2020 diff, this show s determination I guess. --Doncram (talk) 06:33, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

• this diff with edit summary including "wrong listing names" for Muscogee County, Georgia, erased parenthetical difference.
• National Register of Historic Places listings in Greenlee County, Arizona, where edit in 2017 "not in the listing names" creates puzzlement for readers. --Doncram (talk) 04:27, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
• National_Register_of_Historic_Places_listings_in_Clark_County,_Nevada has two outgoing links currently displaying the same, as "Las Vegas Grammar School". --Doncram (talk) 06:25, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

when NRHP articles not wanted

Or "Opting out of NRHP coverage" or "Choosing not to cover NRHP listings".

E.g. perhaps for

I would propose this for items in some town-wide MPS listings, e.g. for some/many of the 28 articles in Jerome County, Idaho, where just a short Idaho State Historical Society inventory sheet is available and little more is likely to emerge, ever. But if the suitable list-article is in fact the NRHP county or city list-article, currently we can't implement that, some change to template:NRHP row is needed. And perhaps some tweaking of the NRHPPROGRESS-related scripts is needed, though having a redirect back to the list-article seems to be understood as having a stub article (and illustrated is based on the county-list-table anyhow). You don't have to agree specificly about Jerome County ones...there are other MPS sets of articles where there is even less I think.

For some MPS topic areas, a list-article jointly covering them does as well or better than individual articles can, e.g.

Redirecting back to the county list-article may be appropriate for some address-restricted archeological sites where little or nothing is known, e.g. some indian hogan in North Dakota or Montana which i encountered, where there's only a hint that some hogan or other structure once existed back in 1970 or so within a national historic site or some park or reserve or indian reservation.

Likewise about when photos not wanted. Perhaps nothing should display, because I recall past discussions about placeholder images where some/many dislike those. But still an invisible code for the image= line, e.g. image=notwanted, can be detected and used in the NRHPPROGRESS system. --doncram 01:55, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Churning going on: this and other South Carolina edits removing the no-image-wanted image, noticed in day's change of SC standing in

issue of PD for NRHP photos

When submitted, should be put into public domain. National Register should require.

• Example of a photo put into public doman by dint of its submission for FHWA? contest. A deletion issue for this was noted at ipoellet's Talk, must have been resolved. --doncram 09:43, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

unreadable NPS documents issue

• In village pump posting (Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Help re: references to NRHP documents readable in Microsoft Edge but not Chrome or Netscape), i suggested it was mostly limited to MPS documents.
• But numerous ones in Kentucky recently.
• Also forever an issue with NYS access...it is not going to change because we notify them.
• Sotterley documents example:
  • Unreadable NHLS ones "National Historic Landmark Nomination: Sotterley". National Park Service. Retrieved March 6, 2017. with 16 photos from 1998
  • Readable NRHP ones:

"National Historic Landmark Nomination: Sotterley". National Park Service. Retrieved March 6, 2017. with 16 photos from 1998

Notes

• To do link search, example: [15] or try Special:LinkSearch/ntsb.gov/aviationquery/

• Previously not-accessible ones marked by my footnote, found by this search on "appears not to be available on-line from the NPS Focus", e.g. Cape Field at Fort Glenn

copyright non-issues

• diff removing a long quote, asserting it was a potential copyvio]. I disagree about that and a bunch of others' assertions over the years. Address by some RFC or what? Reasons:
• There has NEVER been any copyvio claim against Wikipedia or any of us.
• Backing away from assertion of use is a mistake, counter to freeware movement. Being "conservative" is not good.
• Maryland, explicitly, and many/most believe they have put into public domain, and mean to. There is no assertion/wish to retain ownership.
• The percentage of article is mistakenly thought to be relevant, while it is not; percentage of source could be. Supreme court case(s). Nature of copyright law is tension/balance between forces.

OTOH, I personally have found it convenient that copyright issues not well understood, towards encouraging development of . But long quotes are valid. Are recommended especially:

• • technical stuff, not generally known or explained elsewhere, where rewording would surely lose info and introduce inaccuracy, e.g. Priestly's Hydraulic Ram article
  • eloquent wording, far better to quote and credit author directly

Avoid close paraphrasing which is plagiarism and IMHO far worse, and avoid changing meanings (common, and even farther worse). Go back to old and derogatory accusations, or probably not.

[Much later, now in January 2021]: Here is what I just wrote trying to succinctly explain, in an AFC comment (which was explicitly "thanked" by Theroadislong (who had questioned the use of longish quotes) and was taken as acceptable/convincing by Bkissin who then accepted the article):

Theroadislong, Bkissin, in response, the situation for you as AFC editors is perhaps not obvious. There is nothing wrong, in general, with usage of quotes, as is done routinely in Featured articles. If you wanna suggest copyvio or plagiarism, either charge would not be valid at all. Explicit quotes are not plagiarism at all at all at all. Also copyvio is not present though it is a grayer area for persons not experienced in this area. What is copyvio depends on usage/practice/court rulings; and there is no precedent ever for any legal complaint against quoting a NRHP nomination document. That said, the truth is that NRHP nomination documents are generally not Public Domain (PD) unless they were works written by U.S. government officials (not the case here). It is arguable by some (not me), that longish quotes are not preferred. However the quoting is less than 10 percent of the source document, and there are U.S. supreme court ruling(s) that quotes of less than 10 percent are generally okay, even for what might be termed commercial, for-profit works. Here, further, there is/was little/no expectation on the part of document authors that the writing had any value at all and/or would be copyright protected. So, briefly, this is okay. A further consideration could be AFC/Wikipedia editors' personal _preferences_ on extent of quoting. You could prefer less quoting. And, for a Featured Article, I would agree. But this is just a stub, being put out there because it is a highly important topic. If you yourself want to reword the material and take it out of quotes, have at it. But it is okay as is. Further, by the way, I have added another source per Bkissin's preference. --Doncram (talk) 23:33, 10 January 2022 (UTC)}}

--Doncram (talk) 16:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

NRIS-only batches

in October 2019, my fixing 2018 vandalism(?) by another NRHP editor, which had reversed my 2016 fixing up of an NRIS-only article started earlier by a different person. Bizarre.

• 1a. Remove "NRIS-only" status for all articles started by me: Substantially  Done as of March 24, 2017. Issues/notes remain in sublists, as of March 24, 2017, but all articles except one have been expanded somewhat with at least one new reference and some content.
  • There are currently 0 (which updates occasionally) in Category:NRHP in progress. [update]
  • wp:NRHPprogress
    .
  • 1a1. Batch User:Doncram/Iowa pre-Nov2013 NRISonly all authors Iowa ones by me and others.
    • • except revisit Ralph Adams C.-designed one: St. Luke's Methodist Church (Monticello, Iowa).
  • 1a2. 2nd batch User:Doncram/Batch 2 expansions of pre-Nov2013 "NRISonly" articles CO WY with first use of admin category Category:NRHP in progress. Done 7/26/2016
    • except develop more St. Andrew's Episcopal Church (Denver, Colorado), Ralph Adams C.-designed
  • 1a3. User:Doncram/Batch-Georgia-plus for GA and NE and then lots more of Georgia
  • 1a4. User:Doncram/Batch-DC-FL-MI-OK-plus, done i think
  • 1a5. User:Doncram/Batch-CA-KS-MS-plus,
  • 1a6. User:Doncram/Batch-OR-WA-plus,
  • 1a7. User:Doncram/Batch-AZ-plus includes Louisiana but NRHP docs mostly not available there :(
  • 1a8. User:Doncram/Batch-PR-UT-MT
  • 1a9. User:Doncram/Batch-ID-KY-ND-WI
  • 1a10. User:Doncram/Batch-NM-SD-TN, done except some remaining in Category:NRHP in progress
  • 1a11. For Ohio, do at User:Doncram/NRIS-onlyDoncramByState25June2016#Ohio
  • 1a12. For Texas, do at
    wp:NRHPhelp#Texas
    national archives catalog method.
• 1b. Go through 32 AWB edits preceding this fine-tuning one, to describe photos newly linked by AWB, per User talk:Farragutful#Ericson Public Library and nrhp articles
• 1c. User:Doncram/NRIS-onlyDoncramByState25June2016
• 1d. Blog about AWB for expanding references or other within NRHPhelp?
• 1e. Get NRIS-only tagging modified, including about NJ.
  • • The "NRIS-only" tag removed by me, February 14 at Sitka Pioneer Home was eventually restored by NationalRegisterBot on March 12.
    • This diff is Nyttend undoing my test edit at Macon City Auditorium, which is erroneously labelled "NRIS only". As of January 2017 the fraction of incorrectly labelled articles has grown to 30 percent. Source of 30 percent: recently 1015 longer articles yet labelled "NRIS-only" are mislabelled, out of recently 3380 NRIS-only (right now i think it is 3350 NRIS-only).
    • User:NationalRegisterBot/Substubs
      • Address all ones in first list, shortest 100 NRIS-only articles. As of January 22, 2017 (after zapping Gillette House one in Texas, none of 60-100 are mine.
      • Address all ones in second list, shortest 100 non-NRIS-only articles. Oran Community Church not by me, but expand it, need to fix NYS access to do so.

• • See challenge and discussion at
    wp:Petscan
    search with depth 3 on "Iowa" and "NRIS-only since November 2013".
    • wp:petscan search on Iowa ones: Iowa and "NRIS-only" since November 2013
  • "NRIS-only" tagging is incorrect for 1,000 or so longer articles, but is mostly correct where applied to articles started by me.
  • There were 784 articles by me within
    morefootnotes}} tags...these are listed within User:NationalRegisterBot/Substubs specifically here. (See also All NRIS-only articles. List of 784, since superseded by newer "by state" list, is at User:Doncram/ListOf784orSoNRIS-only-May-June2016
    .

• [16] happened May 2019, ended badly IMO with ban on Graywalls
• User:Another Believer/Projects/Architecture lists 952, as of May 11, 2017, "architecture" articles which are likely all NRHP-listed places, and many/most are NRIS-only I think, I'm guessing 900 of them. This is a large fraction of the approx. 2,975 NRIS-only articles currently. --doncram 01:49, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
  • Other NRHP topics are among 157 currently listed at User:Another Believer/Projects/Geography. --doncram 01:54, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

• User:NationalRegisterBot/NRISOnly/All has link available (not usually visible in Chrome, reliably visible for me in Edge only if I run purge), given i had installed access to NationalRegisterBot i suppose) about "which editors created these?". 8/28/2017 for 2,745 NRIS-only, it shows counter running up to 2,745 but I don't see any report. Hmm, run it again, see "MicroSoft Edge blocked a popup from en.wikipedia.org, allow? Then allowing and re-running works, yields new blank page with me with 2 and top ones

1. Swampyank: 824
2. Ebyabe: 748
3. NrhpBot: 131
4. Another Believer: 112 (does not reflect many with just oregon state minimal source)
5. Avicennasis: 65
6. Btilm: 59
7. Packerfansam: 45
8. Pubdog: 40
9. Renelibrary: 39
10. Chilcoatr: 39
11. Clariosophic: 28
12. Yoctownyocol: 27
13. Cbl62: 24
14. Xnatedawgx: 22
15. Bwsmith84: 20
16. FloNight: 15
17. Pietro: 14
18. Tomas417: 11
19. Daniel Case: 10

--doncram 14:42, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

• User:Doncram/SubStubsByOriginalAuthorByState records as of last NationalRegisterBot run on substubs. --doncram 03:55, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

candleabracadabra ones

I was developing numerous short articles started by User:Candleabracadabra, which were valid IMHO, but had been put into userspace. Numerous like Rawls Hotel, a redlink, where creating the article later brings up:

A page with this title has previously been moved or deleted.

If you are creating a new page with different content, please continue. If you are recreating a page similar to the previously deleted page, or are unsure, please first contact the user(s) who performed the action(s) listed below.

*14:59, 20 December 2014 Nyttend talk contribs moved page Rawls Hotel to User:Candleabracadabra/Rawls Hotel without leaving a redirect (All written by a banned user's sock; nowhere close to being ready for mainspace) (revert) (thank)

I expanded more than a hundred i am sure, then remainder abruptly deleted to stop me, apparently. It was hard to see what happened. User:Candleabracadabra/Rawls Hotel brings up:

This page has been deleted. The deletion, protection, and move log for the page are provided below for reference.

• 05:01, 8 February 2017 Nyttend talk contribs deleted page User:Candleabracadabra/Rawls Hotel (G6: Indef-banned user's creation in own userspace) (thank)

--Doncram (talk) 13:19, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

• Lorraine Lodge (currently a redlink), for NRHP-listed place in Golden, Colorado, brings up "20:32, 19 June 2014 Nyttend talk contribs deleted page Lorraine Lodge (G5: Creation by a blocked or banned user in violation of block or ban)". Found while checking "Lodge" places per Talk:List of Masonic buildings in the United States#finding more NRHP ones. --Doncram (talk) 21:11, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Alaska NHLs revisit

• Expand Cape Nome Mining District Discovery Sites, now with NRHP docs for 3 constituent sites. 23 February 2017 started. **See Talk:Cape Nome Mining District Discovery Sites 7 March

Create new NRHP articles in several areas, and/or save articles that were removed from mainspace

• 2.a As of August 10, 2016, just 19 needed for GA to hit 30%, 630 articled, at
  wp:NRHPprogress
  .
  • 2a-1 One possibility is to complete a swath of counties across the top of the state:
    • (list was here, moved 10/24/2016 to User:Doncram/Batch-Georgia-plus ...)

• • 2a-2 do Georgia NRHPs related to Great Locomotive Chase ?
  • 2a-3 address, per Bubba73 interest, drafts by Candleabracadabra ? I moved some to Draft space:
    • Gulf Beaches Historical Museum
    • Draft:Hillcrest (Cochran, Georgia) - Hillcrest (Cochran, Georgia)
    • Draft:McCanaan Missionary Baptist Church and Cemetery - McCanaan Missionary Baptist Church and Cemetery
    • Bulloch County Emergency Medical Services building
    • Draft:Kettle Creek Battlefield - Kettle Creek Battlefield
    • Draft:Haven Memorial Methodist Episcopal Church - Haven Memorial Methodist Episcopal Church
    • Draft:William D. Phillips Log Cabin - William D. Phillips Log Cabin
    • Western and Atlantic Depot (Dalton, Georgia)
    • Draft:First National Bank (Columbus, Georgia) - First National Bank (Columbus, Georgia)
    • Draft:Lott Cemetery - Lott Cemetery
    • Barnesville Depot
    • Draft:Elberton Depot - Elberton Depot
    • Draft:Thomas C. Burke House - Thomas C. Burke House
    • Draft:William G. Harrison House - William G. Harrison House
    • Davis-Exchange Bank Building
    • Gulf Beaches Historical Museum
    • Draft:Tate Gymnasium - Tate Gymnasium
    • Draft:Chattahoochee County Jail - Chattahoochee County Jail
    • Draft:Thomas A. Berry House - Thomas A. Berry House
    • Draft:Boyd Mill Place - Boyd Mill Place
    • Draft:New Perry Hotel - New Perry Hotel
    • Draft:Ludowici Well Pavilion - Ludowici Well Pavilion
  • 2a-3: In Indiana, and some other states besides Georgia:
    • Indiana draft articles, e.g. Draft:Morse Dell Plain House and Garden - Morse Dell Plain House and Garden
    • Seek rest in Nyttend's edit history of 12-19-2013 to 12-20-2013 (?).
    • Better, see subpages of Candleabracadabra's User space (use "Subpages" tool at left: enter "Candleabracadabra" and select "User" space, then hit "Show" to get list of all of them. Here are the results with "Candleabracadabra" and "User" selected. There are italicized redirects left behind for all the ones already moved to Draft space or mainspace.

• 2.b As of 6/26/2016, per
  Puerto Rico articles
  to hit 169, then 50% of 338 articled.
  • 1.
    Draft:Biblioteca Carnegie - Biblioteca Carnegie
  • Draft:Pedro de Castro - Pedro de Castro Pedro Adolfo de Castro
    • 2.
      Draft:Edificio Victory Garden - Edificio Victory Garden
      includes bio.
    • San Juan, PR
      de Castro,Pedro
    • Ponce, PR
      de Castro,Pedro Adolfo
    • Draft:House at 659 La Paz Street- House at 659 La Paz Street, 659 La Paz St. Miramar, PR De Castro,Pedro
    • Draft:House at 663 La Paz Street House at 663 La Paz Street, 663 La Paz St. Miramar, PR De Castro,Pedro A.
    • Draft:Jacinto Lopez Martinez Grammar School- Jacinto Lopez Martinez Grammar School, Calle Norte and Calle San Quintin Dorado, PR de Castro,Pedro Adolfo
  • 3.
    Draft:Ingenio Azucarero Vives - Ingenio Azucarero Vives
  • 4.
    Draft:Cayey Bridge - Cayey Bridge
  • 5.
    Draft:Gautier Benítez High School - Gautier Benítez High School
  • 6. Central High School (San Juan, Puerto Rico) made into NRHP article

Iowa items

• 3a. Santee Normal Training School is needed, and I may begin to draft one at Draft:Santee Normal Training School.
• 3b. County Citadel type of courthouses (Draft:County Citadel), applies to some or all of William F. Gernandt's 10 or 12 Nebraska ones.
• 3c. Expand both
  C.S.P.S.
  ) in America to cover Sokol (arises from CSPS in Iowa and Minnesota NRHP articles).

arbitration and ARCA links

• editing restriction removed by clerk L235 / Kevin, after i requested it at their Talk page. That was at Wikipedia:Editing restrictions, to drop the now-expired "Suspended restriction" about my editing, related to enacted on on 5 November 2016 which was to expire on 5 May 2017. L235 / Kevin had implemented the decision on 5 November 2016 into the Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram record.
• The last discussion at all related to this was this clarification request of 18 April 2017, in which Beeblebrox suggested a clarification (relating to review status). They were at first unaware of the expiration coming up due to the date typo in the Editing restrictions page, which they figured out was a typo.
• end of discussion at my ARCA talk page posting, January 5-30, 2017 (which was at Talk page of
  wp:ARCA
  for Arbitration Clarifications and Amendments, but which is a Talk page shared with other arbitration pages)
• ARCA concluded November 5, 2016 ARCA concluded November 5, just before removed which suspended the restriction on new NRHP articles (to expire in 6 months, i.e. May 5, 2017, which I happened to grumble about here, because I thought that the whole thing should have been over already)
• ARCA concluded May 11, 2016 which removed a ban on NRHP editing except continued to restrict on new articles

• This diff of discussion deleted at a Signpost Talk page summarizes some of the past issues.
• this unrelated ARCA has a passage about "narrative" that is interesting, though not directly applicable.

May 2017 items:

• happen to notice an example of appropriate dealing with wikihounding of another editor, glad to see that.
• Some disagreement at
  wp:POKING
  , arguably what they did and were doing, not my intention. Maybe respond after a while, or elsewhere.

a few ARCA-mentioned articles

• 4. Few remaining from mention at Doncram arbitration amendment, concluded (request was at Doncram arbitration amendment request), related notes drafted at User:Doncram/sandboxAEdraft
  • Chicago Boulevard System, subject of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chicago Boulevard System
    , was mentioned at the request. Add NRHP documents and develop it. Did some, it is okay as is, but it could be greatly expanded.
  • From User:Doncram/Arbitration-JustForFun:
    • Peter Peterson Farmstead
    • Albert E. Thornton House - expanded 3/18/2017 with NRHP document that has become available since the arbitration amendment.

case naming to avoid pre-judging

this note about avoiding username for case name, using "crosswiki something" instead, explicitly to avoid pre-judging, as of November 2017. "because there has been a push against cases named after editors, which would supposedly prejudge the outcome. Perhaps the current name isn't good enough, feel free to suggest something better." Commendable. The notion that arbitrators and others would not be affected by case name was absurd, previously. --doncram 07:35, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Rochambeau

• 5. List of historic sites preserved along Rochambeau's route and related articles
  • Old Oak Tree (Basking Ridge, New Jersey)
    in news 6/27/2016, set up redir and expanded article 6/28. Hope others may expand more.
  • AWB through the category to fix bad See also links.
  • About restoration of articles, run an RFC at its Talk page? Or get a 3rd opinion? I edited at articles & Talk page June 20, 2016.
    • • Develop more from MPS. Try:
        • Rochambeau's Army in Connecticut, 1780-1782 MPS (garbled?)
        • "Rochambeau's Army in Connecticut, 1780-1982 MPS". National Park Service. Retrieved 2016-06-20. (also garbled?)
      • Redirects prevent development of additional text, display of any pictures at all for many, collection of multiple pictures.
      • Disparate treatment vs. buildings on list.
      • Articles allow for proper categorizing, allows them to be included in village/town/county lists of local historic sites
      • Where discussed? What noticeboard?
      • Edit summaries, e.g. for Forty-Seventh Camp of Rochambeau's Army:
        • (cur | prev) 04:56, 20 December 2011‎ Polaron (talk | contribs)‎ . . (71 bytes) (-2,533)‎ . . (Reverted to revision 466801387 by Polaron: it doesn't make sense to have multiple boiler plate articles rather than discussing them together in context. (TW)) (undo | thank)
        • (cur | prev) 03:15, 20 December 2011‎ Doncram (talk | contribs)‎ . . (2,604 bytes) (+2,533)‎ . . (restore article, an obviously contested deletion/redirect with no consensus, see current noticeboard discussion) (undo)
        • (cur | prev) 02:55, 20 December 2011‎ Polaron (talk | contribs)‎ . . (71 bytes) (-2,533)‎ . . (Reverted 1 edit by Doncram (talk): All useful content in target. (TW)) (undo | thank)
        • (cur | prev) 02:51, 20 December 2011‎ Doncram (talk | contribs)‎ . . (2,604 bytes) (+2,533)‎ . . (restore article, an obviously contested deletion/redirect) (undo)
        • (cur | prev) 02:49, 20 December 2011‎ Polaron (talk | contribs)‎ . . (71 bytes) (-2,533)‎ . . (←Redirected page to List of historic sites preserved along Rochambeau's route) (undo | thank)
  • In the first version of this article, there were coordinates, presumably from the infobox generator (see
    wp:NRHPhelp
    ). Which no longer has them. Perhaps this is a restricted site where the public version of NRIS gave the coordinates accidentally, until there was a later correction of the NRIS database to remove such coordinates. Or are these coordinates simply wrong? Maybe should drop them from list-article and its article.

AFD process

• 6. About how AFD process works badly
  • my comment in Jayn Joso AFD, and later comments, on how it appears too harsh on editor Dictionarylady. There is some chance this is a paid editor or has too much COI or is the subject, but I think there are too quick judgments, there is no acknowledgement that appearances could be wrong, and no advice with empathy. I tried better with Isle of Man sockpuppet. This editor, active on the one article occasionally for years, had no talk page and was "welcomed" one minute before their article was PRODDed. Thanks at least for slipping in the welcome, but that welcome message needs to be customised or a different standard one for such situations is needed.
  • other notes far below or in another sandbox?
  • Merge to, say, User:Doncram/AFD changes?

User:Doncram/NRHP advantages vs disadvantages by state

Tax subsidy tax subsidies tax credits vary, for example, by whether state or local zoning or preservation commission rules make specific provisions for

• 8. Various draft articles started, or articles intended (from my Talk archive 26, from archive of wp:refund, other)
  • Draft talk:List of courthouses in the United States
    , by refund request
    • • Draft:List of courthouses in Nebraska
        split out.
      • Going to
        List of courthouses in Nebraska
      • [this DabSolver application to U.S. courthouses list.
  • Draft:List of courthouses done, now at List of courthouses
  • Christopher Drew (investigative reporter)
    tho perhaps should be "(journalist)"
  • Draft:Literacy center and Draft:List of literacy centers
  • Draft:Quality management and continuous improvement in public services?
  • User:Doncram/List of scouting troops and service units (was AFDd and I requested at wp:refund)
  • Irazu Costa Rica Restaurant, it was speedied and I requested refund, it was restored to mainspace. Still to be developed and to remove promotional tag.

Lists of courthouses

• 9. List of courthouses in the United States, and Texas and Nebraska ones.
  • 9a) Fix up reduced IL section then post at
    Adams County Courthouse (West Union, Ohio), Providence County Courthouse
    ). For Illinois, I stripped the draft's section down to just the 10 notable former county courthouses that are NRHP-listed so it does not duplicate any rows in the current Illinois list. These 10 are already mentioned in the comments column for the corresponding current Illinois courthouses. But they are still properly described as county courthouses, so I think they should be explicitly listed in a "List of county courthouses". I would be happy if that list of 10 former ones could be shifted over, to appear in a section below the list of current ones. 30 June 2016 (UTC)
    • • 9b) Create
        Draft:Webster County Courthouse (Red Cloud, Nebraska)
        .
      • 9c) Develop more new courthouse articles e.g.
        Draft:Webster County Courthouse (Red Cloud, Nebraska)

    Courthouses disambiguation

    • • 9d) Per discussion sections at my Talk, open an RFC probably at Talk of
        wp:USPLACE
        , on disambiguation using places for courthouses. First write essay.

    See Yell County Courthouse, one courthouse of one of 10 Arkansas counties having dual county seats. Also has cost updated expression "$25,000 (equivalent to $760,000 today)" produced by:
    

    $25,000 (equivalent to {{formatnum:${{Inflation|US|25000|1914|r=-3}}}} today)
    

    see also County seat war

    Sometimes "(State)" is appropriate, e.g. for a river that runs throughout a state, to distinguish vs. river(s) of same name outside the state. If the river is in a smaller identifiable area, I would prefer that: __ River (__ County, State) or __River (__ county, state1 and __ county, state2), whether or not there is another river of that name in another county in the state. So the reader is told where it is, and given some idea of scope of place (and size/length of river).

    Or when something pervades a state, e.g. Criminal Justice System (State).

    X Superior Court (County, State) or (State) implies it pervades the couunty or the state. X Superior Court (City, State) conveys location, not how far the court pervades. Which prefered for a court htat does cover state? I prefer NYS Appellate Courthouse (Albany, NY),

    For all other topics, we use location. We don't try to convey that one railway station serves an entire county, we just say where it is.

    If location is partly conveyed by name, do we suppress? E.g. Springfield __ (State) rather than Springfield _ (Springfield, State)? No. Americans know that cities in store or company names reflects original city or aspiring market, e.g. Manhattan Storage in Hackensack, NJ. In fact there is Springfield __ (not-springfield, state2), and in state3. (By the way, there are courthouses where counties split or merged or county borders changed, so have X County Courthouse in another county. Old Chattahoochee Courthouse now in Stewart County, GA diff)

    Why courthouses held to be different? I think just momentum from how many of them were started, when some assumed that there would only be at most one notable courthouse per county, so at most only one X County Courthouse per state, so "(State)" would suffice to make unique disambiguator, and there may have been assumption that readers would know what was the county seat, given a county. And there was not regard for overall consistency with other topics. Currently __ are at "(State)", __ at "(City, State)". There have been moves both ways.

    For example, one of the courthouses recently was for article originally and currently at

    Graham County Courthouse (Safford, Arizona). It had been moved from (Safford, Arizona) to (Arizona), with edit summary "Simplify: there's only one in the state, by definition"

    . IMHO, that's common type of reasoning, but not true. In fact when I search a bit I find the building is the 5th courthouse of the county, and there exists text material and photographs and interesting facts (e.g. for the third one, in Solomonville, Arizona, about 9 hangings there, at gallows within view of jail cells, and water dipper and barrels) to have a separate articles on one or more of those too. There's no necessity that all preceding courthouses be covered in an article about the current one. Disambiguation by (City, State) sometimes will suffice for a former courthouse, where the county seat moved. I'd prefer to see disambiguation by (City, State, YEAR) where YEAR is the year-built for two in the same city, conveying place and that there must be more than one notable at the place. I don't think "current" or "former" should be included in the disambiguation. Why not just use YEAR? We could do that for everywhere. Because it doesn't convey where there are two, is it two in different states, or two county seats, or in same county seat. And it may misleadingly convey location, i.e. Fulton County Courthouse (1868) may be assumed to be in Fulton, State. Often, but not often enough, there is repetition, the county seat's city often has the same name as the county.

    Note, the county seat is the location, is a city, state. X County (County seat), where county seat is a city, state. It is by 1877 law, by county-wide vote in Arizona, that a city is chosen as county seat, while the specific building site is not specified.(footnote Graham County Courthouse (Safford, Arizona) sources).

    How many previous county courthouses? Consider counties extinct, destroyed by fire sections.

    Fulton County Courthouse (Atlanta, Georgia)

    existed before 1932 creation of Fulton county by merger of 4?

    If assumption is that X County Courthouse says where it is, so just state should be used, what about State Criminal Courthouse, or __, or __, where there is not suggestion of county. Do we use city, state sometimes, even when State would be unique? This is getting complicated.

    General rule of consistency, having a house style that readers understand, i.e. disambiguation by place is just place, it doesn't convey more that needs to be inferred. Readers not expected to learn flowchart rules (if not courthouse, then it is place; if courthouse, and if county name in name, then if no notable other courthouse has Wikipedia article yet, then etc.).

    Consider post offices. Usually there is just one per town, so (towun, state) works well. Crossover cases: there are __ "Federal Courthouse and U.S. Post Office" examples. Any "X County Courthouse and U.S. Post office" ones?

    City, State, Federal courthouse all use City, State. So it is only County courthouses, right? Consider Atlanta Municipal Court vs. Municipal Court (Atlanta, Texas) (search on "At M C", e.g. At, Tx)

    So far there are at least __ cases where there are two current courthouses in the same county, and __ cases where there are older and newer ones in the same county. This is going to grow. This comes up now because there have been recent efforts by several editors to create new lists of all the current courthouses in a state, some with assumption that every current courthouse is notable. (This overlaps my development of List of courthouses in the United States covering all notable courthouses, current and former, starting with the NRHP-listed ones, but my development does not drive new disambiguation as all NRHP-listed ones are already known, disambiguated.) For example, IL, with __ redlinks vs. 37 or 39 bluelinked NRHP ones, out of 102 current, and 10 or more bluelinked former ones. The current ___ county courthouse disambiguation pages are going to be expanded by additions of modern courthouse complexes. There are __ unique county names, and __non-unique ones.

    There are X=__ total NRHP courthouse article topics (__ with articles, __ redlinks), covering __ distinct counties. There are 4,ZZZ counties, so __ in new counties not covered. And estimation by applying IN's ratios suggests that __ = X*10/(10+37) new courthouse articles in counties where there is a notable historic one already (blue or red).

    Counter-arguments: Is this more likely than other topics to be the one and only in a county, and since county is in its name, omit it? (But most now are 3rd or 4th or 5th in a county...) Commons categories already set up for many.

    Previous discussions: Saenger Theatre and "simplifying moves" like for West Hill Historic District, see

    Talk:Saenger Theatre (New Orleans, Louisiana)

    .

    and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Archive 27#courthouses disambiguation using (City, State) vs. (State)).

    Note admin moving/renaming with edit summary, 23 October 2016

    Here's an assertion that the usual way for naming NRHP places is City, State, applied to a historic district: diff about a Port Republic Historic District.

    by contrast an old edit in 2008 about a Palace Theater, this diff, which i think they would not now support. I undid that change in the next edit, back then.

    • St. Louis County District Courthouse is one of two courthouses in St. Louis County, Minnesota, a big county. --doncram 22:31, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

    • • 9e) Green County Courthouse needs to be a dab page. Move Wisconsin one. Add Old Courthouse (Greensburg, Kentucky), listed on the NRHP in Green County, Kentucky. It is also a contributing building in Downtown Greensburg Historic District (Greensburg, Kentucky). And add Tom Green County Courthouse, NRHP-listed in Tom Green County, Texas.

    --doncram 04:14, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

    ---

    done, --doncram 04:13, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

    • In Georgia, there's one county, Marion County, Georgia, where old courthouse survives in town that is no longer the county seat (so disambiguation by city would work). Old Marion County Courthouse(?). Per this version of county courthouses in Georgia list-article. --doncram 11:47, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

    This edit with summary "This is a disambiguation page, not a "List of Adams County Courthouses" on which would belong non-disambiguation details" was not helpful IMO. I restored the town/city info and NRHP-listed mentions, as obviously helpful to readers. I guess there is an issue of minimalist preferences for disambiguation pages, vs. having some helpful information (which does not make it a standalone list-article, i.e. no sources, no photos, etc.) --Doncram (talk) 16:45, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

    Acacia Lodge

    • 10. Acacia Lodge in Montecito, by Santa Barbara: dig out pics and correspond and develop?

    Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man

    • Draft:Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man
      , develop this enough to go to mainspace. Done

    Further, could correspond with IoM planning staff, figure out few cases where I could not get coordinates, etc. --Doncram (talk) 16:06, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

    some Oregon NRHP articles

    User:Valfontis/sandlist lists Oregon articles created by me by June 2011, and a few others. Since then NRHP documents have become available; can go through and develop more now. A year or two ago I addressed all "NRIS-only"-tagged articles in Oregon and everywhere else which had been created by me. Of these 2011-listed ones, a few including the Astoria Elks Building should have still been marked NRIS-only, but that approach to tracking articles needing development was obfuscated by an editor's addition of trivial and/or malfunctioning Oregon or Portland links (such as this which doesn't work) as references, seemingly with purpose of obfuscating their status. These 2011 listed items are:

    individually listed

    • David and Maggie Aegerter Barn NRHP doc added, expanded a bit --Doncram (talk) 16:06, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Antelope Creek Bridge developed mostly by Finetooth; this was an Oregon-NRHP discrepancy item about bridge disassembled, moved, delisted, relisted. NRHP docs not available at NPS. But article has multiple sources, is fine. --Doncram (talk) 13:13, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Astoria Elks Building NRHP doc added, expanded a bit--Doncram (talk) 16:06, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Baxter House (Dayton, Oregon) expanded by me with NRHP doc in 2016.--Doncram (talk) 16:14, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Brown's Ferry Park (Tualatin, Oregon) Not an NRHP, was just a geo-stub i created because it was a sensible item to include in Brown's Ferry (disambiguation) (that i created to cover one or more NRHPs), and creating the article would have been the only way to fend off the disambiguation-item-deleters. I added a bit more to it just now. --Doncram (talk) 13:13, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Calvary Lutheran Church and Parsonage (Silverton, Oregon) NRHP doc added, expanded. --Doncram (talk) 00:35, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Frank Chamberlain Clark Houseexpanded by me with NRHP doc in 2016.--Doncram (talk) 21:09, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Cochran-Rice Farm Complex added a bit to NRHP document reference, other just now. --Doncram (talk
      ) 19:00, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Crater Lake Superintendent's Residence
    • Deady and Villard Halls, University of Oregon
    • Harrisburg Odd Fellows Hall expanded by me with NRHP doc in 2016.--Doncram (talk) 16:14, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • IOOF Building (Ashland, Oregon) expanded by me with NRHP doc in 2016.--Doncram (talk) 16:23, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • IOOF-Paris Fair Building expanded by me with NRHP doc in 2016.--Doncram (talk
      ) 16:23, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Lake Oswego Odd Fellows Hall expanded by me with NRHP doc in 2016.--Doncram (talk) 16:23, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Medford IOOF Cemetery NRHP doc added, expanded a bit--Doncram (talk) 21:09, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Odd Fellows Building (Portland, Oregon) NRHP doc added, expanded a bit. Could do an article on architect Ernst Kroner, this was his most notable work, per NRHP document for other Oregon IOOF building that he designed and is NRHP-listed. --Doncram (talk) 21:09, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Edward W. St. Pierre House added NRHP document reference and a bit more just now --Doncram (talk) 19:00, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Dr. Stuart House
    • Elias Woodward House
    • Elks Temple (Portland, Oregon) I added NRHP doc in 2012 and it has otherwise been developed. --Doncram (talk) 13:13, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
    • George C. and Winona Flavel House
    • George Taylor House (Corvallis, Oregon)
    • Gottlieb Londershausen House expanded by me with NRHP doc in 2016.--Doncram (talk) 19:13, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Honeymoon Creek Snow-Survey Cabin expanded by me with NRHP doc in 2016.--Doncram (talk) 19:13, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Indian Sands (Brookings, Oregon) developed by others including Ipoellet. --Doncram (talk) 20:21, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Inlow Hall (Eastern Oregon University) developed by Ipoellet; I just expanded NRHP reference and added a bit. --Doncram (talk) 20:21, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
    • J. G. Edwards House
    • Jackson County Courthouse (Medford, Oregon)
    • John Palmer House (Portland, Oregon)
    • Knights of Columbus Building (Portland, Oregon)
    • Lithia Springs Hotel (Ashland, Oregon)
    • Shriners Hospital for Crippled Children (Portland, Oregon)
    • Stewart Bridge (Walden, Oregon)
    • United Presbyterian Church and Rectory (Albany, Oregon)
    • Willakenzie Grange Hall --NRHP doc not available at NPS as of May 8, 2018 --Doncram (talk) 16:06, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

    Districts

    • Albany Monteith Historic District
    • Gardiner Historic District (Gardiner, Oregon), redirects to Gardiner, Oregon
      . I don't see myself in edit history anywhere, but whatever.
    • Independence Historic District (Independence, Oregon) (marked "done" by Valfontis)
    • Jacksonville Historic District (Jacksonville, Oregon)

    The Grange

    • 12. Extensive history of Grange origins in Wood River Grange doc:Julie Archambeault and Tricia Canaday (February 12. 2003). "National Register of Historic Places Registration: Wood River Center Grange No. 87 / Wood River Grange". National Park Service. Retrieved 2016-06-16. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help) with six photos.

    N. M. Stark and Company

    • 13. N. M. Stark and Company: Vine Street Bridge's nom doc has good info on N.M.Stark builder, to develop its article.

    Round churches

    • 14.
      List of round churches
      ) Add any from Dale J. Travis lists.

    Round barns

    • 15. List of round barns: That doing historic >= 50 yrs only. Cross-checking vs Travis: Canada, VT, NY done. I did find a few Travis missed in NY, send mention to Travis. What about Ways Mills ones and other remaining puzzles for Quebec? Are there sources about Dale J.Travis to give credit with description?
      • List of octagon houses Dale J. Travis cross-check against his "Round barns" list which includes more.
      • buildings:Dale J. Travis cross-check
    • 16. About expanding/explaining
      wp:USPLACE on City, State in disambiguation. See User:Doncram/USPLACE notes
      .

    disambiguation damage

    (see also general disambiguation issues in items further below)

    • 17. Repair damage to disambiguation: step through Dabdo approximately 1,040 contributions (and by their usage of IP accounts)

    I notice that on numerous occasions Dabdo's edits were reverted by bots as probably vandalism, which was substantially correct. Dabdo's user page, created 4 January 2014 their first edit, indicates "This account is for fixing and improving disambiguation pages. / I had been doing it anonymously but a bot tends to reverse anonymous corrections too often. It was getting annoying."] Unfortunately almost all of their edits should be rolled back, as recklessly causing damage to disambiguation. I focus on the edits damaging disambiguation pages of places including NRHP-listed places. In a good number of their edits, they remove valid items from the disambiguation pages. In overlapping but more numerous edits, they reorganize the pages, so that readers cannot easily find the place they are looking for. For example on a page of places named "X House" that lists 15 places in the United States, they discard organization by state then city (which works well for readers looking for the X House in a given city) and sort by tiny variations in naming (e.g. put "Joseph X House" at bottom, when it is quite likely known as "X House"). They strip useful information from entries.

    I've been working backwards through their edits, got back to 24 October 2014, maybe will start at January 4 and go forward now.

    User:66.217.197.192 edited Callahan House, was reverted by me, in 2013. Then Dabdo created their account in 2014 and this was first mainspace page they edited (and were promptly reverted by bot, and then they reimplemented it). What they did was this, which drops 2 out of 6 items, i.e. drops T. M. Callahan House, Longmont, Colorado, and John L. Callahan House, La Crosse, Wisconsin, and puts the remaining ones in random order. Maybe they could make some claim about their ordering, but I don't see why they would choose that ordering, and it cannot be superior to helping readers look up by state then city. In this case it puts two houses that are located in Annapolis, Maryland, into different sections (one in an unneeded "See also" section). In many other of their edits, it puts houses from the same city far away from each other in a disambiguation page, when clearly a reader looking for one of them would like to see them together. I am fixing the Callahan House one now, January 29, 2017, to a valid version (that happens to mention county locations...not required, but somewhat helpful IMHO).

    I wasn't editing in NRHP area in 2014, but I am sure I gave them feedback previously, and the bots did, and probably others did, and they might have modified their edits somewhat, but they didn't go back and fix their errors and all the edits of place disambiguation pages were damaging, through their entire edit history as far as I can tell. Oh well, they will all be reversed soon. There is some urgency now as a different editor is changing disambiguation pages in an okay way, about dashes vs. hyphens, and it saves effort if Dabdo's edits are reversed, first. --doncram 22:44, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

    • • As of February 6, done.  Done
      • As of February 5, repair through Winters House, on September 1, 2014. Did 6 months of edit reversions. 2 months of edits remain to revert. Am thanked for my repair and update to Rankin House, by Drmies, which is nice.
      • As of February 4, repair through Midway Historic District, on February 24, 2014.
      • As of January 29, repaired from first January 4, 2014 edit at Callahan House, through Sadler House, on February 1, 2014. In most of their pages they are being reversed by bot as vandalism, then reimplementing. They were warned level-3 vandalism at their Talk page too.
    • • As of January 29, repaired back to 24 October 2014, Noble House (disambiguation), in 2nd 500 of their last edits
      • As of January 26, repaired back to 19 December, Benjamin Franklin School, have undone almost all in their last 500 edits
      • As of January 25, repair vandalism back to 22 January 2015, Holman House. Note editor SJ Morg has been helping, e.g. this edit undoing Dabdo damage at Holman House.
      • As of January 25, repaired their damage back to 1 March 2015, St. Stephen's Episcopal Church
      • As of January 24, undoing their edits back to 26 March 2015, Tallman House.
      • As of January 23, 2017, have gone back through their edits to 15 April 2015, Thomas House. A brain is a terrible thing to cook.
      • As of January 22, 2017, have gone back through their edits to 12 May 2015 St. Bernard's Church. This is tedious undoing their work. I hope they didn't spend much time on it, all wasted.
      • As of July 24, 2016 have gone back to Dabdo's 19:49, 24 July 2015 edit on Great Northern Railway Buildings
      • as of July 18, have done back to Dabdo's edit 23:36, 31 August 2015 Daniel Miller House
      • as of July 17, 2016, have done back to Dabdo's edit 06:36, 17 December 2016 on Bass Building
      • as of July 12, have done back to 07:05, 17 December 2015 Washington Park
      • ‎ was done back to North School, as of July 5, 2016
        • Centrally make case again about naming NRHP, keeping in, as signal old vs. new, esp. courthouses where new items coming in as Texas, Alabama, other lists develop.  ?
        • Just fix them.
    • • 17b. Special:Contributions/66.217.197.192's contributions were all on NRHP places disambiguation pages. Revisiting them:
        1. Starr House
        2. McGehee House
        3. Muir House ‎ Redirected page to John Muir National Historic Site)
        4. Hayward House
        5. Perkins House
        6. Watson House
        7. Hopkins House
        8. Fuller House
        9. Robbins House
        10. Henderson House
        11. McLean House
        12. Lowe House
        13. Steele House
        14. Hawley House
        15. Peter Hansen House
        16. Hansen House
        17. Stearns House
        18. Walter House
        19. Ray House
        20. Morrow House
        21. Cather House
        22. Callahan House
        23. Curtiss House
        24. Welles House
        25. Farrar House
        26. Allison House ‎
        27. Sharp House
        28. Johnston House
        29. Evans House
        30. Murphy House
        31. Bradshaw House
        32. Marston House
        33. Kelley House
        34. Walker House
        35. Babcock House
        36. Dodge House
        37. Nicholson House
        38. Meyer House
        39. Collins House
        40. Stewart House  Done
    • • 17b2. Special:Contributions/66.217.196.206's contributions are primarily:
        1. Demarest House
        2. Lee House
        3. Kennedy Building
        4. Reed House
        5. Rogers House
        6. Nichols House
        7. Hodges House
        8. Baker House
        9. Barrett House
        10. Carson House
        11. Bowers House
        12. Chamberlin House
        13. McCarthy House
        14. Taft House
        15. Gleason House
        16. Warren House
        17. Bennett House
        18. Meade House
        19. Perkins House
        20. Grimes House  Done
    • • 17c. Based their both editing at Kincaid House and other similarities, editor‎ User:66.217.196.154 is likely same as editor Dabdo. IP editor is confident; see User talk:66.217.196.154 reporting "false positive" of bot edit.
        • Fix disambiguation pages vandalized by IP in 2013: [17];
          • Bryan House, Kincaid House, Woodruff House, Sullivan House  Done
          • Legg House
          • Noyes House
          • Harbison House
          • Randolph House  Done
          • Dickinson House
          • Carter House
          • Locke House  Done
    • • 17d. User:66.217.202.141 is likely the same as other IP and/or Dabdo, too, from Woodruff House and Bryan House. Edited only one day in June 2013.
        • They edited several times at
          wp:SOCK? See Crow House
          .
        • Fix disambiguation pages: [18]
          • Bryan House (duplicate)  Done
          • Buckner House
          • Cook House
          • William Cook House restored
          • Crow House
          • Fulton House
          • Keller House
          • Newcomb House
          • Perry House
          • Petty House
          • Phillips House
          • Ramsey House
          • Reynolds House
          • Roberts House
          • Roberts Building
          • Sanford House
          • Winslow House  Done
          • Woodruff House (duplicate)  Done
    • • 17e. User:66.217.198.88 is also likely the same; edited only on 28 December 2013.
        1. Pratt House fixed, January 2017
        2. Fowler House
        3. Gilmore House
        4. Haskell House
        5. James House
        6. Kerr House
        7. Rucker House
        8. Stevenson House  Done
    • • 17f. Disambiguation pages were edited in 2013 by I.P. editor User:66.217.197.8, see their contributions: [19]. Upon review, there are no real problems with their edits, they were mostly removing wikilinks of supporting bluelinks after the main item turned bluelink, and they don't like explicit statement of "sorted by state then city" for U.S. items. --Doncram (talk) 17:32, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

    Wyoming SHPO source

    • 18. (Added 7/22/2016) Use AWB to add Wyoming SHPO page as external link to each NRHP, as done at J.C. Penney House.

    Doncram AFDs record

    • 19. Tidy up User:Doncram/AFDs?

    By the way,

    wp:AFDSTATS doesn't always work? E.g. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Haymarket District (Lincoln, Nebraska)
    not included in mine, tho formatted correctly. Maybe because it was closed quickly, was not open overnight or whenever a bot run is done?

    Also what about my suggestions for improving AFDSTATS display, directed to one of its authors/maintainers in 2017 or so?

    template editor

    • 20.
      wp:AFDSTATS. Came up when I viewed source for Wikipedia:IRC help disclaimer
      , wondering if it could be adapted for other Wikipedia irc-chat.
      • Example future usages:
        • could be to implement change to fully protected
          Template:WikiProject NRHP per CFD about Category:NRHP architects
          , engineers, builders, as part of shifting from hidden mainspace categories to tags in the NRHP wikiproject template.
        • various Template:infobox NRHP changes. At Template Talk page i served as reviewer on many coding changes tested in sandbox, and then we had unnecessary delay to request and get an administrator to implement the change. See archives of template talk.
        • perhaps to revisit "staff" mention in
          wt:NRHP
          it looks like the change should not have been made.
      • Have made edit-requests
        • NRHP wikiproject template
        • on Template:infobox NRHP
        • at Template talk:GeoGroup/Archive 1#Compressed display option?
      • Have edited moderately prominent and/or complicated templates
        • these edits to Template:Recent AfDs (which is not protected). Explained at Template talk. Tested in sandbox.
        • revised displayed text for Template:GeoGroup, and also this and this back in 2011
        • Template talk:S-line#documentation update about when disambiguation for a station name is needed

    21. Masonic reconsolidate

    • [20] (or this diff) RFC about OR designation of "religion=none" in infoboxes for private schools. Reasons against apply here. Source for salient assertions of "Masons don't meet here" is often/usually a grand lodge link which does not show the given building. --doncram 06:53, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

    Unified list serves readers. Unified list puts focus on why building is notable. Dividing criteria: we don't know if former or current. Dubious characteristic being used in top-most importance way.

    Implementation "Former" fields don't allow for notability to be explained. Building / Image /Location/Landmarking agency/ Year built/Dates of Masonic usage "Former" shows defensiveness. Reasonable for editor to expect dispute about membership, i.e. the "formerness". No interest in notability. So for historically interesting building, this is dead list displaying nothing of interest. It is the discards from other, of interest because it is a partial directory of current buildings.

    Hawaii edits for example: There is an inaccuracy, it was not owned or sold by Masons; they just had to move out. Per NRHP nom. Inacuracy introduced in this edit of 1 September 2013 addint to "main", where editor was perhaps rushing, focusing on what they consider of interest: whether masons currently there. Editor just added category "former" to the article on 1 September 2013, without developing article at all (okay). "Main" fields then and now:Building / Image /dates/ Location/City, State/ Description. Description mentioned architecture type, should have evolved to cover notability better.

    Article at time and now) said "The Masonic order used the second and third floors as a temple until 1985, when they moved out to protest a liquor license being awarded to the first floor tenant." With "protest" aspect not supported in source, the nom form. In 2010 it was asserted to be active along with one other, with source to other's website. "Protest" wording by article creator, going for DYK.

    text removed from main list covered architecture and that, with no footnote. What got brought over in creation of "former" is just that. With no footnote.

    The "former" one does not attract edits, it is a dead-end, a discard heap.

    Me frustrated with development of Australia section. Natural way to develop is to find the notable ones, add all. Do not arrive in "current" vs. "former" distinction. Amounted to excessive ownership, edit-warring, interfering with some budding international cooperation. Transfers probably lost description/notability? Definitely showed disrespect for wishes of currently developing editors. Australia editor(s) frustrated, can i say driven away? What would they have gone on to do possibly? Check?

    Unlike all other mainly-NRHP lists. It is probably the only NRHP list-topic in experience of this editor. Call it a great education perhaps, if went on to other list-articles.  ? While me, others who go on with many many list-articles do not adopt this.

    Over-stated, over-committed issue because of issue of respect? Editor criticized on other aspects and "lost", e.g. by Keep of the list, and of redlinks, and "notability is not temporary", and gradually(?) committed onto this arbitrary point (but was objected to). (Was there any support?). Was able to implement after i was blocked(?) or banned. Rest of editors tired out with disputes (and/or did not want to be on "my side")? Is it old enough now. Note about respect shown in NRIS reference revision, complicated, led by me. ----

    From NRHP doc for Masonic Temple (Aberdeen, South Dakota): "Fraternal lodges have long contributed much of the most exotic and sophisticated architecture to American cities and small towns. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry was perhaps the leader in promoting architectural splendor in rural areas in America between the 1870 r s and the 1930's. The Aberdeen Temple is a nice example of the taste for the oriental, which has distinguished these lodge buildings." ( South Dakota Historical Preservation Staff; Carolyn Torma (1979). "National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: Masonic Temple". National Park Service. Retrieved January 13, 2018. With two photos from 1978. )

    "unnecessary disambiguation"

    • User:Theo's Little Bot/unnecessary dab suggests possibilities (to me) for disambiguation pages; some of these are properly considered Redirects with possibilities. I just addressed some by creating dab pages, e.g. Cory House. --doncram 01:31, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

    22. Disambiguation AFD twodabs

    I opened a RFC / proposal, which was at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#Proposal: keep two-item dab pages. It was archived at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation/Archive 46.

    See User:Doncram/Disambiguation-ChangeTWODABSpolicy, the study of 25 D AFDs

    [21] about request for an administrator to close the RFC. Got ping today about it. It had been marked "closed" by Tavix, a major participant, after it was archived. The request by Cunard is to have it properly considered. --doncram 05:35, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

    • I had watchlisted some of the ones in a two dab list back then. Now I see one being deleted:

    (Deletion log); 07:09 . . Explicit (talk | contribs) deleted page Talk:Aart de Geus (disambiguation) ‎(G8: Talk page of a deleted page)

    (Deletion log); 07:09 . . Explicit (talk | contribs) deleted page Aart de Geus (disambiguation) ‎(Expired PROD, concern was: unnecessary disambiguation page per WP:TWODABS, a hatnote is sufficient for those searching for the minor topic)

    --doncram 08:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

    • Another one was Bonanza High School (disambiguation), where i had posted at its Talk page, and got notice just now, and am discussing at Talk:Bonanza High School (disambiguation). --doncram 15:23, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
    • Another one is Banco de Ponce (disambiguation), where there was just a PROD with 2DABs as a reason, and i had posted at Talk:Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) in advance and was notified by Mercy to my Talk page, and i just removed the PROD and commented at Talk. I was right to predict it would grind on. --doncram 02:58, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
    • There are many 2dab pages identified, currently 44 starting with "B" at User:RussBot/Two-link disambiguation pages/006. --doncram 15:23, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

    Here's another reason to keep two dabs pages. Example of IOOF (disambiguation) which is tagged

    IOOF (disambiguation)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      15 Revisions (+4 months), 11 Authors, < 30 Page watchers, – Pageviews (30 days), Created by: Great Scott (3,207) · See full page statistics
    This disambiguation page contains the primary topic and one other topic for the ambiguous title. Please expand it by adding additional topics to which the title can refer. If no other topics can be found within a reasonable time, the disambiguation page might be deleted. Also consider adding the All pages with titles beginning with User:Doncram/sandbox15  and All pages with titles containing Doncram/sandbox15 templates to assist searches for the term in other articles' titles. (January 2017)
    

    IOOF may refer to:

    Independent Order of Odd Fellows, fraternal order founded in 1819 in Baltimore, United States, by Thomas Wildey
    IOOF (company), Australian financial services company related to the above
    Disambiguation icon	This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the title IOOF.
    If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article.
    Categories: Disambiguation pages
    Hidden categories: Disambiguation pages containing one non-primary topic from January 2017All article disambiguation pagesAll disambiguation pagesMonitored short pages
    

    The secondary usage of "IOOF" seems incredibly obscure to me. I don't think the Australian company deserves to get the publicity of a "for" link on the main

    International Order of Odd Fellows page. Deletion of the two-dabs page will be used to justify adding an ad on a relatively high-profile page for them. It is better to keep them locked onto the obscure dab page, preferably with no inbound links to it, but having record at its Talk page or edit history that consensus is the Australian company is obscure and does not deserve more. --doncram
    17:50, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

    23. Bullying and civility essay or other participation

    Address comments at April-May 2016 arbitration amendment, and Guy's and another's at October one (exerpts below).

    Same or different than essay

    • essay/note on admin privilege, advantage, getting kid gloves treatment when abusive where non-admins would be slammed. So it is not just whether abused admin tools, there's other abuse of admin status. Probably this is related to "involved" areas only... i.e. where use of admin tools would be clearly not allowed as allowed...but admins who do this use tactics where their status gives advantage, e.g. ANI proceedings (where they are relatively immune to boomerang), violation of civility policy, other. See fairly recent admin involved discussion where fellow admins bent over backward to be tolerant, over-emphasized the no-explicit-abuse-of-admin-tools aspect, take advantage of reticence within band of admins to call out bad behavior amongst selves. Basic thesis worth making: admins can abuse status without explicitly using admin tools; this is serious, undermines trust, fairness generally. --doncram 17:01, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

    Does Michael Hardy arbitration case reflect Arbitration committee new willingness to address admin privilege, in an isolated case notably not an admin editor mixed in with others, or is that a one-off?

    Some excerpts from User talk:Jimbo Wales#Why would one want to be uncivil?

    • From the above discussion, it seems that for editors who are not malicious and encounter a difficult editor, they might become uncivil because they don't know of any way to easily deal with the problem editor in a civil manner. In that regard, is there any single essay that focuses on this problem by describing various methods for easily dealing with problem editors, which can be used instead of incivility from frustration? --Bob K31416 (talk) 13:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

    --Here's an example of advice in such an essay – When you have consensus on your side, and an editor goes on and on with repititious unconvincing arguments, keep in mind that it is the article that you are working on, not trying to change the editor's beliefs. So if the editor isn't a threat to the article, you don't need to respond to the editor's remarks nor be uncivil. If you feel you need to respond, keep it civil and short and refer to previous discussions as appropriate. The phrasing, "That's already been discussed" can be used too. --Bob K31416 (talk) 16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

    • Somewhat along the lines of Guy's comment above, i would like to understand better what various people categorize as "uncivil". Is it always uncivil to comment on another user's behavior? If someone seems to be extremely stubborn to the point of completely denying something like "Source X says Y" or are seeming to gish gallop and distract with their dialog while remaining obstinate on blocking or inserting a specific content, then is it ok to say "You seem to be very stubborn and your dialog seems to lack integrity and completion"? Is it ok to insist on dialog with integrity? To me, participating in a dialog but leaving very specific questions unanswered while changing and shifting the dialog seems uncivil to me. It seems like intentional disregard for integrity of dialog is like a disguised filibuster, essentially a prime example of "civil POV pushing". What i've encountered so often is someone in a dialog who seems to not really be there with good will and good faith, and who does not treat the dialog with the requisite respect to work through often complex questions, to tease apart the sub-questions, etc. That really does take a commitment to good dialog. Every tiny bit of insult or snark in a dialog can also throw everything off. Every single tiny insinuation and allegation can throw the dialog off, as a conscientious person who is assuming good faith will feel compelled to answer accusations. Those are the sorts of situations that throw me beyond a breaking point on occasion. SageRad (talk) 14:45, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

    You really need to stop using that word "integrity", because you have used it so often as a synonym for ideological consonance and by now every single time you use it I automatically discount your point as being self-serving. You may not like that, but I am pretty sure I am not the only one who sees it this way.

    All we require of people on Wikipedia is that they are honest. A True Believer does not lack integrity when they trot out endless anti-vaccine or climate denialist tropes. They are wrong, and they are almost always POV-pushing, but it's not a lack of integrity unless they know and understand that they are wrong and continue anyway. That only happens in very rare cases. Guy (Help!) 14:39, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

    • essay out what does it mean to be bullying/cruel/driving away others in context of wp:nrhp specifically? And to be limiting/narrowing/hazing to preserve a small elite insider club, as opposed to being welcoming/growing?
      • this diff, and later one on same page re a different editor, reflect l.t. dismaying effect, around ship names. no response at Talk page, reference to previous wt:nrhp consensus/discussions ignored. ship names seem not important, but the nature of this is oppressive/dismaying imho; this is but one topic example. As opposed to letting people do what seems sensible, e.g. like the general approach worked out on allowing coordinates corrections. --Doncram (talk) 05:54, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

    24. Expand about death of old oak tree

    at Presbyterian Church in Basking Ridge, using sources I added to Talk:Presbyterian Church in Basking Ridge. Note publicly somewhere about how Wikipedia has changed, there used to be rush to add new items. I added this alone in June, and no one noticed in September.

    25. Causes of World War II

    missing hugely needed article about Roosevelt's embargo forcing it.
    

    • • Oil embargo (Sino-Japanese War) which is linked from Pacific War, Oil embargo, and Japanese declaration of war on the United States and the British Empire
        .

    26. Disambiguation patrol proposal

    Disambiguation patrol proposal, or my own items? datrol:

    • Opium Wars
    • Transhumanism, Transhumanist politics, Zoltan Istvan, Zoltan Istvan: Revision history(?)
    • Newsboy problem (see Newspaper hawker
      )
      • Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board#"Paperboy" vs. "newsboy" or what else, besides in the U.S.
      • Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics#"Paperboy" vs. "newsboy" or what else, in India?
    • Mat (Russian profanity)
      . Revive its devt, now that ANI archived, invite 1 each way.
    • Lake, Wisconsin, order & populations
    • Merger and disambiguation of Summary justice, Vigilante justice, Frontier justice
      • Talk:Vigilante
        location of discussion about merger Vigilante and Frontier justice, and need to treat Summary justice as well.
      • diff of my coments there
    • "The Sunday Telegraph" into "The Daily Telegraph":
      • wt:DPL#notice of proposal to merge "The Sunday Telegraph" into "The Daily Telegraph"
      • Talk:The Sunday Telegraph removed text
      • Talk:The Daily Telegraph#proposal to merge "The Sunday Telegraph" into "The Daily Telegraph"

    27. *craftsman houses in Syracuse

    • • ward wellington ward bungalow on Salt Springs, 214 Salt Springs is listed $124,900 with no pics "GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO OWN A CHARMING VILLAGE HOME WITH HARDWOOD FLOORS,GORGEOUS ORIGINAL WOOD MOLDINGS, 4 BEDROOMS AND A MODERN RENOVATED KITCHEN/FAMILY ROOM! COULD BE USED FOR ONE FLOOR LIVING-- FEATURES INCLUDE A MUDROOM AND 2ND FLOOR ATTIC SPACE WHICH COULD BE MADE INTO AN ADDITIONAL BATHROOM. VINYL SIDING,DECK, SOME REPLACEMENT WINDOWS,CENTRAL AIR, SIDEWALKS AND NICE YARD. ALTHOUGH IT NEEDS SOME WORK---BEING CLOSE TO CENTER OF VILLAGE,SCHOOLS, LIBRARY,PARK RESTAURANTS, SHOPPING SIDEWALKS, & FM SCHOOLS MAKE THIS A PROPERTY WITH GREAT POTENTIAL!!!!!!"
      • 100 Summit Ave on Bellevue, two-story, also www? zillow on 100 Summit with inside pics
      • 812 Stinard Avenue in Strathmore, a 2011 house of the week
      • 922 Avery Ave, bungalow, has porch detail per trovit for sale listing 10/15/2015 $63,129
      • 1911 Brewerton Rd., "1911 Brewerton Road 1462 sq. Ft. Single Family Residential

    Syracuse, NY 13211 07/26/2015 - Craftsman Style Bungalow, North Syracuse Schools, Many Updates. $104,000. per same trovit. Across from Dee's Diner, on Rt 11, in Mattydale just n of thruway, just e of 81.

    • • trovit search is bungalow-syracuse-ny list, but "bungalow" not nec. craftsman style
        • 129 Fiscoe has front dormer, $71,000
        • 717 Seeley Rd. has front dormer, 58,900
        • 201 Mosley, eastwood, built 1928, front dormer, $95,000
        • 106 Orwood Place, somewhat, $62,500

    28. Multiple property submissions

    Rosenwald Schools
    article.

    Wait for a bit, then propose a cleanup campaign at wt:NRHP? Or just itemize here and work ahead one by one?

    Also the topic

    Multiple Property Submission itself is a bit lame, should be re-titled at least, if not just merged back into National Register of Historic Places article? --doncram

    22:11, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

    29. Norris Bumstead Herndon

    Create Norris Bumstead Herndon (b. 1897) biography article, about light-skinned black businessman of Atlanta, GA. Or suggest it for a black history Wikipedia editing event. Black History Month is February in the U.S.

    See User:Doncram/February DYKs. --Doncram (talk) 14:10, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

    Harvey & Clarke

    30. Expand (since someone already re-created it, which I was preparing to do) the

    Harvey & Clarke article that was one of few deleted articles found in analysis at User:Doncram/Articles or User:Doncram/Articles1 or User:Doncram/Articles2
    :
    • • • architect one
          L. Phillips Clarke
          . refund requested. Some hits are:
          • ^[1]
          • Their first building in WPB was bank in 1921.[2]
          • Old Daily News building in book^[3]
          • Holy Trinity Church (West Palm Beach, Florida) ^[4]
          • Northwest Commercial Corner, p 111 and 6 more: Old Daily News building, example their use of pilasters; 874 South County Road, 1923^[5]
          • Seaboard Air Line Railway station, Boynton Beach, Mediterranean Revival architecture^[6]

    References

    1. ^ DDA (January 31, 2015). "Harvey and Clarke help develop downtown West Palm Beach during Roaring 20's".
    2. ^ "title".
    3. ^ [1]
    4. ISBN 0486157393
       .
    5. ^ Barbara D. Hoffstot. Landmark Architecture of Palm Beach.
    6. ^ Janet DeVries. Around Boynton Beach.
    • • more? Article was re-created. Copying these sources to its Talk page.

    Asian topics

    31. Four Asian articles in November 2016.

    • Petroglyphic Complexes of the Mongolian Altai, UNESCO site
    • Handicap Go make its strategy/tactics section into a proper article
    • Korean historic sites? List of historic sites in Korea redlinks, including
      • Fortress Gongsanseong Fortress, Gongju info here
      • Songsalli Ancient Tombs of Gongju. Google search on: Tombs in Songsan-ri, Gongju yields a lot. Including Tomb of King Muryeong which is tomb 7 of 7 but article says it is Korea historic site 13. But the list article gives 13 as being all seven tombs: Songsalli Ancient Tombs of Gongju. See about proposed or actual Unesco site for combo. It is not included in List of World Heritage Sites in Eastern Asia though. about tomb 6, has link to similar travel diary entry about Gongju fortress.

    SIA definition vs other disambiguation

    • List of peaks named Signal Mountain discussion, my proposal to disallow it as SIA example, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of peaks named Signal Mountain
    • • SIA definition and documentation:
        wp:SIA
        . Idea on dividing line btwn sias vs. standalone list articles is that SIAs are comprehensive and still serve disambiguation function.
    • • Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation/Archive 33#Crow House: idea on SIA is that they are collections of reader interest to see together, they are not disparate items. "Being of the same type" is not enough, any name disambiguation page lists same-type things (people) that are unrelated. If they are very related somehow, in a way of interest to reader to see together, then okay.
    • • • Cantor converted from dab. Conversions from dabs important (in helping drive to eliminate links to disambiguation pages?)
      • SIAs on Animal common names:
        • • wt:DPL#convert 1,000+ "common name dab pages" to set index articles
          • User talk:Plantdrew
          • (User talk:Elf? re Canine)
          • wt:DPL#Ringtail. Talk:Ringtail
            .
      • Surnames:
        wt:DPL#dab to surname conversions

    links to disambiguation pages

    (in addition to Disambiguation items in numbered items above)

    • signpost note. Want a nice graphic! Milestone when hit ? pages. Already hit 1,000,000 dablinks eliminated, and being below 100,000.
      • src for old series] (June 1 2009-June 20 2010
      • src June 21 2010-Sept 24 2015 stats subpage
      • Excel plot? Better google plot, share, does it graph?
      • News & notes submit 23 2015 issue; next issue?
      • draft: WikiProject DPL achieved milestone of 100,000 "dablinks", a huge drop since June 1 2009 when automated reporting began.
    • June 1, 2009 134,868 / 1,355,714 start of stats kept by JaGa based on __ by ___
    • June 20, 2010 140,182/ 1,059,151 drop to
    • June 21: 113,970 / 961,936
    • September 21, 2015 43,654 99,650
    • Current (September 24, 2015 43,344 98,387) holding...
    • improve Notification system per my 9/10 commitment at Talk:Staszek Lem.
    • do the work of converting disambiguation pages: SIA-disambiguation, dab-SIA conversion, dab-BroadConcept conversion
      • 324 on 9/7; 310 on 8/14 vs. (Updated continuously: There are now 390 articles in Category:Disambiguation pages to be converted to broad concept articles.)
      • 9 on 9/7; 16 on 8/14 vs. (Updated continuously: There are now 0 articles in Category:Former disambiguation pages converted to broad concept articles.)
      • 49 on 9/7; 1 on 8/14 (Updated continuously: There are now 57 articles in Category:Former disambiguation pages converted to set index articles.)
      • 38 on 9/7 (Updated continuously: There are now 0 articles in Category:Disambiguation-stop.)
    • welcoming & followup
      • this got tx back, but few few contribs since. Followup?
    • wt:DPL
      • wp:dpl-recentdablinkers or Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links/New Dablinks By Editor
    • • improve tools list at wp:DPL per Dispenser comments at Talk
      • improve "Guide", or an FAQ or what
    • • Improving the tools:
        • • wt:DPL#Set Index Articles Needing Disambiguation
          • wt:DPL#template for dabs converted
          • Request for SiaSolver analog to DabSolver? Surnames, Given names, Ships, what else?
          • Request for daily reports like there are for dabs? Does this require SIAs to be numbered or a master list of them built, like may be done for dabs? Surnames, ships, etc. too.
    • • Battle of X, siege of X SIAs:
        • wp:MILHIS
          sia on battles, request
        • what report will identify? or just the sequence alphabetically in Category:All disambiguation pages(?)
        • CatScan on MILHIST non-disambiguation pages yields 38 dablinks in MILHIST articles as of 8 September 2015
        • CatScan on Dab and Milhist finds 2 disambig pages in MIlhist, one being American Regiment and Zachistka
          • this version of CatScan finds just 1! because Zachistka is not in All disambigution pages, it is in category of DabConcept though.
        • CatScan on SIAs in Wp:MILHIST finds just 4:
          Ryūjō
        • wt:SIA#convert 500+ "Battle of X" dab pages to SIAs
      • Dablinks to be cleared by experts. Tools evolving.
        • 1. Done: wt:SHIPS one (
          wt:SHIPS#help needed on ambiguous links in ship articles
          ) eliminated all (96, August 11-15, 2015)
        • 2.
          wt:Canada#help needed on ambiguous links in wp:Canada articles
          (255, August 18-__) (139 as of 9/7)
        • 3. Done: wt:MILLS one (
          wt:MILLS#Disambiguation request: Woolfardisworthy in Devon
          ) eliminated all (1, August 28-29)
        • 4.
          wt:NYC#help needed on ambiguous links in NYC articles
          (46, September __-__)
        • more WikiProject-specific dablink campaigns. Canada has about 300, np has 200 iirc, what are the active wikiprojects that could potentially help, don't bother with inactive ones. wp:US has about 650, not sure what it sweeps in. wp:ORE? Need better tools first? Tools evolving maybe better with each one of these. But message/request should be brief, simple; evolving on that too.

    Seek liaisons to work with groups of experts?

    • Experts defined by WikiProjects or otherwise. Drafted request at User:Doncram/AskForLiaisons.
    • if getting developers to consider one tool change, need to warn them of possible further tool requests for SIAs disambiguating (daily report, Sia Solver, other analogs to tools listed at wp:DPL, possibly LinkClassifier, possibly various semi-automation tools).
    • LinkClassifier test some more, and add it to wp:DPL list, first. Should it also show SIAs and SIA-intended links?
    • The User:Doncram/RequestForLiaisons draft, drafted 9/9/2015, was getting at need for new general tools:
    • DabSolver list for any CatScan output (intended to be about general articles (including SIAs))
    • Dab Fix List for any CatScan output (intended to be about disambiguation pages (or SIAs))
      • Note the Category:Articles with links needing disambiguation from June 2011 has just under 500 articles now (9/9) and it is a pain to work on, same as what experts elsewhere would have to do. One has very little idea what the actual disambiguation mini-challenge will be, from just the article title.
      • If getting experts to look at dabs in their area, is a next step, then would need to have the dabs have WPs on them. A reason for Dab page ownership, so that members of the wikiproject can assist in disambiguation of terms that they know about, rather than leaving that to less-experts.
        • • It already makes sense for SIAs to have WikiProject banners, but perhaps a CatScan of SIAs NOT having Talk pages, or not having any wikiprojects, could be done? Can Catscan do that, using Talk page categories and article page categories?
      • Is there a way to classify dabs to WikiProjects by the WikiProject banners on articles linked from the dab page. That would work to identify any List of mountains for the Mountains SIAs for example.
      • Big question: can one use CatScan or anything else to search by title or content of disambiguation pages, e.g. dabs with titles having "Battle" or "Skirmish" etc., besides when that is the first word in the title? For the first word ones, can look up in alphabetical list Category:Disambiguation pages, by, for example categories titled "Siege" and on. But you don't get a nice text list out of that, however.
    • Also there are SIA complications
    • Big: An dab-adoption supporting report that facilitates someone watching common dabs, e.g. for dabs in an admin category of their short list, looks for new inbound dablinks. Current DPL instructions are to use "What links here?"

    Make this available like LinkAssist at a tab?

    • Also about an Inbound links general tool, reporting count of links from mainspace and replacing "What links here?" with tool that actually facilitates changing the inbound links. This is different than dabfixlist.
    • What about updating DPL bot for more conditions than just "has more than 100 edits". When does DPL bot run in terms of messaging new usages. Adjust trigger time since edit added dablink until message generated. Allow user to adjust time upwards, rather than opting out entirely.
    • And consolidate to make one report for all of a user's outstanding dablinks (and tell them they can ignore/delete previous notices). How about noticing their having fixing dablinks, and thanking them!?! That info is available, all the time or just in each new month?
    • Plan to make a monthly report for anyone, but start it up for frequent dablinkers? Allow users to adjust frequency: bi-monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, annually, opt out completely. Include note that user can run custom report on articles where they have added an unfixed dablink, have that set up to run for just them.
    • Wording fix that someone asked for at wt:DPL.

    
    Notes:

    • • Recruit a manager in the wikiproject-specific role, first? Define jobs, e.g. liaisons to topic areas like math? Liaisons to prolific editors, with spirit of what do they need to extend effect of what they do. Surname-reviewers, converters role. Given-name role. Set up a panel of roles? Or maybe not because don't want to undermine system that is running. Perhaps roles that are within the existing system could be named, while avoiding pressing for different approaches? General poll or better test a short questionaire on just one or two of the regulars or those who occasionally show in the MDC.
    • No more than one campaign or new idea per month.
    • What is template {{incoming links}}, it was on Centre Square dab and brings up DabSolver setup. See {{incoming links}}. Try here Dab solver on Signal Mountain?
      • No it would need to be SUBST'd, that's what the template does?

    The following makes no sense...Subst is to apply a template and this is not linking to one....oh it did apply for {{FULLPAGENAMEE}} which did get replaced once.

    Try simply, now not with template tags, duh, around Signal Mountain:

    • Mountain Dab solver apply to Signal Mountain
    • Dab solver apply to Signal_Mountain

    Or better, this is not applying DabSolver, rather it is going to the once-a-day-created "dab fix list" which shows for each dab the articles having dablinks coming to the dab, and displays the section for this dab, with FIX links set that will apply DabSolver to any one of those articles. ? Hmm, when you apply Dabsolver and fix a link, then applying Dabsolver again won't find anything. Dabsolver runs live. But the dab fix list will stay the same until DPLBOT runs again and updates it? The dab fix list is in effect a list of dab - article pairs, sorted by dab. And it must have date-time of the dablink-creating edit, because it can show strikeout if there has been an edit later than that.

    Similarly for the dablinks by editor, it goes to a list which is really a dab fix list sorted by number of recent dablinks per editor then by editor (last editor of the page when it first got a dablink, how tell?). But here one can run the list-generating program.

    Headed towards a new Disambig report or something? Hmm, looks like this would just be an easy output format change, for CatScan to spit out wikitable formatted to facilitate performing disambiguation within each one, like it generates a different wikitable. The wikitable should indicate date-time when run, and the count of results, --actually better to number the rows, so editors at a wikiproject could say "I'll do rows 11-20" or "#15 done" etc-- and the CatScan field settings that yielded this (i.e. what shows in the URL). Editors can edit the resulting worklist by deleting rows that were done, or striking them out, whatever. Perhaps limiting the table-length should be an option? Not worth it. Hmm, just make it a numbered list using # or using fixed numbers or both, easy to update by strikeouts and need to be able to see the fixed row numbers when in edit mode. Or, format so it makes a live page, just for this current catscanner user to see, in html, of only the still currently open ones?

    And then, it doesn't have to be done as a CatScan output, it could be done manually with Word editor or somehow on one existing output format or another. Should be able to apply concatenation functions in Excel to generate a column, and then copy-that to a wikipage. Try doing for Canada list.

    Okay, that is done, re-ran to yield 255 in TSV format, copy-pasted to Notepad & deleted lead stray text, saved & imported into Excel. Concatenating worked fine (Excel file in Google/Wikipedia/Wikipedia-disambiguation). Results in

    wt:Canada

    .

    • Request better tool 1? a dablink assistance tool like the output of the monthly list tool (giving clickable FIX links to DabSolver), which works from the results, in one format or another, of the CatScan tool; that would be most general in reviewing OUTGOING dablinks (and sialinks?) from a WikiProject like the wt:SHIPS august 2015 drive. (Semi-automated approach using Excel works, but a fully automated one would be better for ...)
    • Request better tool 2: a dablink assistance tool like the monthly list (giving clickable FIX links and showing strikeouts for pages edited since the tool was last run) that would review INCOMING dablinks (sialinks easily) to articles in a category or explicitly listed (in a list format that CatScan can output). The category method or the list method could conceivably enable "adoption" of dabs commonly linked to, by specialty area.
    • Try to categorize the dabs in the monthly list; which could have vs. were converted to SIAs or BCAs. Actors & films; Math/technical scientific; philosophy; Known Troublemakers: Telegraph, etc. Eastern European & Balkans places, football clubs. In which areas is some recruitment needed. Not ships, seemingly.
    • Outline of the job, position, title role BCAs needed?
    • Request or figure out, first, whether dabs that are targets of incoming links are in a category, or where they are listed by the daily or monthly existing reports. If they are in a category, then could use CatScan to identify the ones that a WikiProject's experts should review.
    • Request or try to figure out if CatScan could take as input, the articles in a given list (e.g. the list of known dablinks source or target articles. (it already does take as input the articles in a given category). If so, then could use CatScan to identify to disambiguation pages .
    • What process, a manual one, to build up collections of dab pages that can be adopted/patrolled.
    • Request variation on existing reports to address sialinks.
    • Request an author specific tool more extensive than the report that can be run now?
    • Saints Noting mention of saints pages being slower to clear, at wt:dpl on 8/18, do a project to correspond to the schools, churches, etc. named after a saint, in order to find out. Based on my experience inquiring to local geneologist near a private school in England, which worked, although the info was then by private communication, it did not generate a public reference; is that one example enough evidence that this could work? Would need to achieve public webpage changes, in order to cite in Wikipedia?

    and/or a dablink tool like that which works from a category (which would facilitate.

    • Request
    • Also open NYbrad response at wp:3RRNB. Principle is important. Compare statement re: judge 27 month sentence article saved in Wikipedia area. My comment without that statement.
    • Humanist politics
    • Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links#DAB Challenge leaderboard
    • which initiative at DPL:
      • animals next go to CFD (asked P)
      • surnames 507 hits on disambig + surname, the surname ones identified by me
      • 500 with both disambig + surname, per suggestion
      • point-scoring and goals and what matters and do SIA also (need tools adapted) and updating Guide etc.

    It is a basic management precept that: Feedback can be effective if it is timely and specific and balanced / phrased positively. It has to be received, which in Wikipedia it has to be noticed and read.

    Strategies for making progress in reducing dablinks:

    • Attack most recently-added dablinks. Dab-fixing effort may be efficient because newly created dablinks include many easy-to-fix ones (while longer-lasting dablinks tend to be the hardest ones to fix). Dab-fixing these is more likely to deliver useful feedback to dablinking editors because 1) these editors are more likely to receive feedback (because they are currently active, and hence are more likely to note changes to articles to which they contributed) and 2) the feedback, if they notice it, is timely (about recent edits they made). However what they may learn from indirect feedback is that others will fix their mistakes. Most efficiently done at Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links/The Daily Disambig/Recently added covering recently added still not fixed, updated daily?
    • Attack dablinks added by editor: Use New Article Dablinks Arranged by Editor tool written by User:dispenser. You can run an update to this report yourself. For each editor, it lists dablinks "directly added" recently, which they might not be aware that they added, which have not yet been fixed. Editors are ordered by number of dablinks they recently added. Within editor, articles to which they added dablinks are ordered by number of dablinks added. Dabsolver "FIX-links" are provided for each article. As of July 31, 2015 the report lists 724 editors who recently added 2 or more dablinks, starting with one who recently added 56 dablinks spread across 43 articles. Dab-fixing effort may be efficient because dablinks created by one editor may be similar. Optional: engage the individual editors whose styles you come to understand, by giving feedback to them at their Talk pages on how they can/should fix their own dablinks or avoid creating them.
    • Attack articles having the most outgoing dablinks.
    • Attack disambiguation pages having the most incoming dablinks.
    • Attack longest-existing dablinks.

    Elements of surname proposal...

    August 2015 MDD challenge included, out of 1000 dabs: animal and plant dabs that could be sias:

    • Rat flea
    • Dace
    • Calla lily
    • Bollworm

    surname dabs that could be SIAs

    • Zoronha, a clean surname

    Susanne, a given name, mostly Schott, surname, almost pure, converted Anton Ravindranath, given name in India Wenceslaus, a given name Attalus, a given name, of some kings too

    Sam, a given name Seema, a given name Kim, a given name with other related uses, e.g. book after the name Ramsay, some surname usage Estrella, has a given name and a surname section Zhukovsky, where the surname usage is possibly the largest over places, and so a move from Zhukovsky (surname) to Zhukovsky on basis of PRIMARYUSAGE

    Numerous saints

    ---

    >

    About other acronyms:

    Danube. Contrary to the lede, the Danube R. flows NOT thru Czech Republic, nor Slovenia, nor Bosnia and Herzegovina, nor Montenegro! | country = Germany | country1 = Austria | country2 = Slovakia | country3 = Hungary | country4 = Croatia | country5 = Serbia | country6 = Romania | country7 = Bulgaria | country8 = Moldova | country9 = Ukraine

    

    

    The infobox listed the right countries.

    Germany Austria Slovakia Hungary Croatia Serbia Romania Bulgaria Moldova Ukraine.

    What does shape of river look like? Acronym ideas:

    • GASH! Cuts the SeRB? MU.
    • Good Advice: Smart Horsemen Check Stirrups Right Before Mounting Up
    • Good Advice: Smart Horsemen Check Saddles' Roughness Before Mounting Up
    • Good Advice: Smart Housekeepers Control Spending eRe Bills Mount Up

    TRaVELL the Baltic: Tallinn, Riga, Vilnius. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.

    KK TUT. =Kurdistan Kazakhstan Tadjikhistan? Uzbekistan Turkmenistan

    rfa notes for advising rrmancer?

    • Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Rosiestep
    • Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Pegship, stub-sorter e.g. edit 3 here
    • List of peaks named Signal Mountain
      and dab vs. what distrinction

    notes on "NRIS-only"

    • Some might be hard to fix, unless something has changed:
      • American Fork Historic District, nom doc was not available per 2nd edit summary. Is available now, 5/16/2016, found in Focus search
      • NARA
        and added to article, 7/12/2022.
      • Antelope Cave, Arizona, looks interesting, possible NA as archeological. Not available in Focus, 5/16/2016. Searched for NRHP document at NARA, and it is noted there but not made available as a restricted site, 7/12/2022.
    • Bridges:
      • Beaver Creek Bridge (Electra, Texas)
      • Ashland Bridge (Ashland, Nebraska)
      • Bridge No. 4 (La Crosse, Wisconsin), Clinton Bridge Company
      • Bridge No. 122, Puerto Rico, with pic
      • Calamus Creek Bridge
      • Big Black River Railroad Bridge
      • Eighth Street Bridge (Sioux Falls, South Dakota)
      • Forsythe Covered Bridge, in Indiana
      • Fossil Creek Bridge
      • Fremont Mill Bridge
      • Kansas City Southern Railroad Bridge, Cross Bayou
      • Manatí Bridge at Mata de Plátano
      • Mill Creek Park Suspension Bridge
      • Mueller Bridge
      • Nine Bridges Bridge
      • North 21st Street Bridge
      • North 23rd Street Bridge
      • Otowi Suspension Bridge
      • Otter Creek Bridge (Cedar Vale, Kansas)
      • Plata Bridge
      • River Street Bridge (Iowa Falls, Iowa)
      • River Street Bridge (Marble Rock, Iowa)
      • Vine Street Bridge, Iowa (has good info on N.M.Stark builder for N. M. Stark and Company article).
      • Washington Avenue Bridge (Waco, Texas)
      • Washington Avenue Bridge (Iowa Falls, Iowa)
      • Washington Mill Bridge
    • Battlefields
      • Big Black River Battlefield
    • American Legion ones:
      • American Legion Cabin
      • American Legion Hall (Shoshone, Idaho)
      • American Legion Hut (Decatur, Mississippi)
      • American Legion Hut (Edmond, Oklahoma)
    • Masonic
      • Masonic Lodge 570
      • Masonic Temple (Yuma, Arizona)
      • Masonic Temple Building (Denver, Colorado)
      • Masonic Temple-Hoquiam
    • Odd Fellows
      • Buhl IOOF Building, and see other List of Odd Fellows buildings
    • Ignacio Berriochoa Farm and other Ignacio Berriochoa stonemason ones. Perhaps Denton J. Paul Water Tank or boarding house one for DYK?
    • Bremerton Elks Temple Lodge No. 1181 Building, Bremerton, WA, and other List of Elks buildings
    • How run cross cat 3 to get ones in just one state?
      • Try quick category on Elks buildings vs. NRIS only?
      • Petscan at here: set depth=9, use "Articles sourced only to NRIS" and "Elks buildings", yields 19
      • Petscan with "North Dakota" yields 41.
    • Other NRIS-only's of interest:
      • Adams Covered Bridge, in Ohio, by NRHPbot (no longer just NRIS, anyhow)
      • Avondale Plantation Home, LA, by a new editor, perhaps associated with the site? Building was moved.
      • William G. Blakeley House
        , Kingman, AZ, has non-NRIS info

    more stuff

    • Former NRHPPROGRESS now at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/ProgressNRHPlistsByState with enod etc.

    
    NRHPPROGRESS or NRISONLY coding

    • Help:ChangeContentModel / [22] / mw:Help:ChangeContentModel: sysop / admin status needed to change content model of a page. So contrast "Page information" for NRISonlyEditors.js vs. [23]
    • User:Doncram/common.js
    • Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Progress/NRISonlyEditors.js vs. User:Dudmanfellabra/NRISonlyEditors.js
    • Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Progress/NRISonly.js vs. User:Dudmanfellabra/NRISonly.js
    • Piecing together August 28, 2017, from incomplete instructions at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Progress/History (which shows no button usually in Chrome and only would if you have the NRHPProgressHistory script access set up already) and User:Dudemanfellabra/NRHPProgressHistory.js and from having figured out Blank page stuff for NRIS-only authors, in section above.
    • • Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Progress/History, hit purge to see button "Get Progress Page History", click that, then new "Blank page" window should have content which can be copy-pasted. But repeatedly right now I get "wikipedia.org is not responding", while on the other hand other scripts run fine, e.g. the Progress "Generate SVG Output" works. --doncram 15:57, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

    NRHPcoord marking sources for coordinates

    Trying to sort out at

    wt:NRHP#Coordinates conversions, and should we be footnoting coordinates?
    and
    wp:BOTREQ#Copy coordinates from lists to articles
    Map all coordinates using OpenStreetMap

    Download coordinates as:

    • KML
    • GPX (all coordinates)
    • GPX (primary coordinates)
    • GPX (secondary coordinates)
    • National Register of Historic Places listings in Carroll County, Virginia 7 out of 8 coordinates changed by Nyttend.
      • Dinwiddie Presbyterian Church and Cemetery had/has no coordinates in NRIS 2010a. Its coordinates in article were added by Doncram, taking them from the list-article. At the list, Sanfranman added coordinates for it in this edit "add a couple of sets of geocode coords from Google Earth". Nyttend modifies those coordinates slightly in this edit

    changing from version 1 36°51′46″N 80°43′05″W / 36.862642°N 80.717994°W / 36.862642; -80.717994 (Dinwiddie Presby church version 1) to version 2 36°51′46″N 80°43′02″W / 36.862778°N 80.717222°W / 36.862778; -80.717222 (Dinwiddie Presby church version 2) is in fact an improvement, moving from a point at the correct road intersection to a spot right on the church building itself, in what I see in Google satellite view for this. --doncram 17:35, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

    • Carroll County Courthouse (Virginia) started by Doncram in 2011 using NRIS coordinates, not changed since in article. Changed by Nyttend at list-article from 36°45′58″N 80°44′12″W / 36.766111°N 80.736667°W / 36.766111; -80.736667 (Courthouse 1) to 36°45′59″N 80°44′11″W / 36.766389°N 80.736389°W / 36.766389; -80.736389 (courthouse 2). --doncram 17:35, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
    • National Register of Historic Places listings in Craig County, Virginia: 1 out of 3 coordinates changed by Nyttend
      • Huffman House (Newport, Virginia) coords were changed. Article has no coordinates. VA nom has coordinates and a map of the property. Coordinates in list-article for it were provided by this edit by User:Kennethaw88. Nyttend changed from 37°20′50″N 80°24′07″W / 37.3472°N 80.4020°W / 37.3472; -80.4020 (Huffman 1) (which was in fact spot on center of the frame house of the farm) to 37°20′50″N 80°24′07″W / 37.347222°N 80.401944°W / 37.347222; -80.401944 (Huffman 2) (also is on the house, not centered) ... not wrong, though not an improvement.
      • Craig Healing Springs was not changed, was at NRIS coordinates. VA nom has USGS topo map. Doncram just now changed them at the article, with NRHPcoord to point to main lodge building in center of district, was already in the district.
      • New Castle Historic District (New Castle, Virginia) was unchanged, at NRIS coordinates. VA nom has a map, and Google satellite confirms the coordinates are in the district (near Market & Middle Streets), I can't particularly improve upon them. --doncram 18:11, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

    testing coord template

    1. 40°06′N 80°06′W / 40.1°N 80.1°W / 40.1; -80.1 (test1)
    2. 2 source&title=test2 40°12′N 80°12′W / 40.2°N 80.2°W / 40.2; -80.2 (test2) Fails in display...can't have spaces in source info apparently.
    3. 40°18′N 80°18′W / 40.3°N 80.3°W / 40.3; -80.3 (test3)
    4. 40°24′N 80°24′W / 40.4°N 80.4°W / 40.4; -80.4 (test4)
    5. 40°30′N 80°30′W / 40.5°N 80.5°W / 40.5; -80.5 (test5)
    6. 40°36′N 80°36′W / 40.6°N 80.6°W / 40.6; -80.6 (test 6) Two words in name (i.e. "test 6")
    7. 40°42′N 80°42′W / 40.7°N 80.7°W / 40.7; -80.7 (test7)
    8. 40°48′N 80°48′W / 40.8°N 80.8°W / 40.8; -80.8 (test8)
    9. 40°54′N 80°54′W / 40.9°N 80.9°W / 40.9; -80.9 (test9)
    10. 40°57′N 80°57′W / 40.95°N 80.95°W / 40.95; -80.95 (test95)
    11. 40°59′N 80°59′W / 40.98°N 80.98°W / 40.98; -80.98 (test98)
    Map all coordinates using OpenStreetMap

    Download coordinates as:

    • KML
    • GPX (all coordinates)
    • GPX (primary coordinates)
    • GPX (secondary coordinates)

    Template talk:Coord

    verbatim quotes

    • As if botched quotes are preferred? Revisit, with recent discussion at ANI about long quotes used in Balfour Declaration, which turn out to come from many many sources. One point is that not a huge amount from any source is quoted. And it doesn't matter how much of the Wikipedia article consists of quotes, if they are used appropriately.
    • Rewording rather than quoting can introduce inaccuracy, and can put assertions into Wikipedia's voice. Rewording is good when there is nothing distinctive about the writing and nothing is ambiguous and you are summarizing from something longer.
    • Also here is a 2008 good quote by another editor for an NHL article. --doncram 13:44, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

    February is Black History month

    Notes moved to User:Doncram/February DYKs.

    Essays/articles

    • Top 10 reasons why your wikipedia edits get reverted, Andy's name in lights, was one linked from
      User:MontanaBW
      's list.

    sandlist

    • User:Valfontis/sandlist since 2011 creation using some report of articles created by then with connection to Oregon, perhaps. I noticed mention of "not the usual suspects", led me to visit and fix up William C. Knighton just now, 27 March 2018.

    past flack

    A nice note about past flack i took, indeed yes, from Royalbroil in Wisconsin. --Doncram (talk) 04:14, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

    plank-frame houses

    Check if there's reply at [Talk:Janicke House]. --Doncram (talk) 15:04, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

    essay:what is turning

    User:Doncram/Turning, starting.--Doncram (talk) 01:59, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

    in progress

    Backup, to mitigate deletion scenario:

    User:Doncram/NRHP in progress 2019-11-09. i went ahead and deleted, per statement at my Talk. Actually to avoid worse stuff potentially.--Doncram (talk
    ) 23:17, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

    There were 247 apparently. I suppose most/all dealt with by developing enough, or were already developed enough to be okay though I was interested in doing more, but for sake of avoiding controversy deleted from category, lost my connection to them. Sort of replaced by Category:Historic sites in progress, which i came across again recently when fixing up one article in it. Did several more, now 18 in number. --Doncram (talk) 04:36, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

    wikidata

    I asked at Help in commons approximately "how turn off annoying Wikidata notifications", was directed: Doncram, visit https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo and uncheck according to your needs. -- User:Eatcha 07:44, 30 November 2019 (UTC). I changed a setting to give just a weekly notification, i think by email. --Doncram (talk) 18:09, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

    afd role

    Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/La Belle Cemetery includes something like "why is it for some people that every AFD has to include assumption of bad faith, personal attack", maybe valid. --Doncram (talk) 22:17, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

    making a combo photo

    This code from Template:Bierstadt Lake is how CaroleHenson did it; there is TFD Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 September 12#Template:Bierstadt Lake to delete this because it can be done better somehow. But this looks doable to me.

    Clockwise from the top: Reflection of the dense pine forest in the lake Bierstadt Lake's mountain view Horses at the corral on Bierstadt Lake Trail Bierstadt Lake, with the sedges that give it a serene appearance