User talk:EdJohnston/Archive 31

I guess you wanted to say Lollywoodcafe (talk · contribs). :) --SMS ^Talk 03:35, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

@

talk

) 03:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

User:Lollywoodcafe has since been blocked for a week by another admin. EdJohnston (talk) 17:04, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

A user has been warned in 2009 about AA2 enforcement under AE. He has been placed under supervision in 2010 here. Is the warning still valid for a topic ban today? Proudbolsahye (talk) 18:49, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Once an AA2 warning is issued it should be valid forever. You could still remind

discretionary sanctions and provide them a link to the arbitration case. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk

) 20:00, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Commenting on the note you left on my talk page: Elvey reported me for edit warring, but I was not doing any Wikipedia work over the weekend (family time) and did not follow up, and its been bot-archived after 48 hours; it's now in the archives here . I think it's worth responding to, but I don't know the protocol for that. Can you advise? TJRC (talk) 19:22, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

This is about an archived 3RR report. It seems that you,

WP:RFC, you could at least state your preference on the talk page and ask others to comment. When an outsider like myself looks at the page, it is unclear what the dispute is about. This could make it more difficult to recruit people new to the problem to offer their opinion. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk

) 20:38, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I regret getting involved at all and probably would have left it alone altogether had Elvey not repeatedly posted to my talk page complaining about my (single) edit.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:12, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Ed. I'm about to leave for vacation in a few days, and don't think we'd get any resolution before leaving, so I'll open something there when I get back. There's not a lot of point in editing the article in the meantime, so I am with some reluctance leaving Elvey's version there (I just self-reverted), and will keep away from this article for the next couple of weeks. TJRC (talk) 13:44, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Ed,

(I replied to your recent comment on my talk page; please reply.) Above, you said "When an outsider like myself looks at the page, it is unclear what the dispute is about." I think there's now a clearer | summary of the overall dispute here but I'd like to know if you have any suggestions; it works for you? I could copy it over. FYI, TJRC has resorted to misquoting policy (unapologetically, as always) and so forth on his talk page. --Elvey (talk) 21:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and copied it over, with some tweaking. Does it make clear what the dispute is about, in your view? It's here. --Elvey (talk) 06:22, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

• Hello Elvey. Normally I'd suggest taking this to the
  article talk it will probably scare off anybody who is tempted to help. Even User:Prosfilaes might consider coming back if you could tone down the rhetoric for a few days. As a first step, I recommend that you remove the material you posted under 'Further Dispute Resolution' and try to replace it with a revised version that only talks about content issues, very calmly, and doesn't accuse anyone else of misbehavior. EdJohnston (talk
  ) 16:11, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

As I mentioned above and on Elvey's talk page, I'm heading out for vacation, and not back for about 10 days. I'd request that any RFC be held off until then. This shouldn't have any unfair impact: the last edit made before the page was protected was when I reversed my own edit to put Elvey's preferred text back in, so it's not like he has to put up with having my preferred text there in the meantime. TJRC (talk) 00:24, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

TJRC asked that I hold off on any RFC. I've respected that request.

Ed, Thanks for the point about tone regarding what I posted on

article talk. I posted it after not hearing from you for a couple days. In the past (e.g. many weeks ago) I tried to pay it forward and help with a few WP:Dispute resolution cases, but more often than not I either can't grok the gist of the dispute, having read the case, or run out of patience while still reading it. A good learning experience, but apparently it hasn't been enough. 'Further Dispute Resolution' is gone. User:Elvey/sandbox-content

is a start at a revised version that follows the suggestions I've received.

I'd asked you about the | summary of the overall dispute here on AN/EW, but you only responded regarding a posting to the talk page that I hadn't asked about. I see why you mentioned the talk page, but I don't understand whether "what the dispute is about" means something different in the context of AN/EW, which is where I posted and asked for feedback. When posting on AN/EW, I recall one is supposed to talk about conduct, rather than content. I don't know if you looked at what I posted on AN/EW, or if it makes clear what the dispute is about, in your view. Does User:Elvey/sandbox-content?

Again, I'd appreciate it if you replied to the comment to you on my talk page. After all,

WP:CIVIL says, "Editors are expected to be reasonably cooperative… …and to be responsive to good-faith questions." And that's exactly what I'm asking there - good faith questions. If I didn't think getting a reply was important, I wouldn't be reminding you about it - especially after I updated it (diff). --Elvey (talk

) 03:45, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

I won't be available to work on this topic any more. Feel free to ask for assistance elsewhere. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 13:16, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi, i saw what you wrote in my talk page and i have some questions, kind of simple ones:

• 1- In the case that i found new sources on the topic can i contact you and ask your opinion directly?

• 2- Will there be any sanction for the user Andythegrump for opening a case at ANI acusing me of something that i wasn't doing? Regardless of the fact that the comunity seems to hate me, he opened the case saying that i was doing things that i wasn't.

regards. Czixhc (talk) 22:22, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

You should avoid the topic of Jonathan Hagos's map entirely for the foreseeable future. I am not going to review your futher content proposals. The community doesn't hate you, but you seemed oblivious to the feedback you were getting. An indefinite block would also have been a justifiable result for the ANI discussion. If you want to continue to edit Wikipedia, you should try to find other topics where you can contribute. There will be no sanctions of other editors as a result of the ANI. Closures at ANI are usually more difficult than this one. It was really you against the world, and you didn't seem to be aware. EdJohnston (talk) 22:44, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

• Ok, regarding that I'll see you on 6 months, though i'd like to know if there is a way of shortening the lenght of the ban due good behavoir, by making maintenance works on wiki or something, i'm not a bad person. I knew that it was me vs the world, that's why i said multiple times that i didn't cared about it anymore, but the people commenting still said that i was insisting on pushing the original topic anyway. It's confusing really, but in the end doesn't makes much diference. Czixhc (talk) 22:49, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

• Looks like there is no way to shorten the term, well, i'll try on 6 months. Czixhc (talk) 23:21, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I have written here a proposal to enforce complying with

As there is no reply after about a week, have I inserted my proposal in a wrong page?

BTW in order to come with clean hands, I was warned and took it seriously. Ykantor (talk) 02:12, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

You shouldn't be changing the Workshop page of

WP:BOOMERANG. EdJohnston (talk

) 02:29, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I have undone the Workshop page

I am not looking for a punitive action. I propose to enforce the

WP:ARBPIA decision. If editors will adhere to those rules , a lot of trouble will be avoided. When people know what should really be avoided, they will adapt themselves to the rules. Is there a page in which it can be proposed? Ykantor (talk

) 05:50, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

To get Wikipedia policy changed, you need a lot of discussion. It looks to me that you are having simple content disputes in some ARBPIA articles. You are unhappy that others disagree with you, and you may believe that some of these editors are behaving badly. It seems unlikely that

WP:CANTFIX will solve what is displeasing you. Consider the steps of WP:Dispute resolution. EdJohnston (talk

) 06:20, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• In my limited experience WP:Dispute resolution is useless. (sorry for the harsh words).e.g. This is my experience during the last months:

1. DRN expired with no solution. The other side changed his mind and left the discussion.
2. DRN expired with no solution. The other sites respond was not what he was asked for by the volunteer.

I intervene in Ykantor's text aware it is not welcome because this is a perfect illustration of the way he proceeds. In fact, the volunteer has not edited for 10 days; and in fact, I have answered very precisely to what he has asked but I have just provided a link to the talk page where I had provided more than 1 month before to Ykantor what the volunteer expects in a normal process of content disputed resolution... Pluto2012 (talk) 20:16, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

1. DRN expired with no solution. No volunteer.
2. "Requests for mediation/Kfar Etzion massacre" have not started The other side declined.
3. DRN expired with no solution Futile, no participation by one editor; has been refiled at WP:3O
4. "1948 Arab–Israeli War" DRN expired with no solution. The volunteer could not continue

• I am probably wrong sometimes, but as my edits are deleted because of bizarre reasons (e.g. bad grammer, because I am required to prove what the Arab people thought as opposed to what their governments said), I do not think that I am the problem.
• Within the Arab- Israel conflict articles, I have an automatic concensus against me, since I am the only regular Israeli editor. I assume that other editors stopped writing in those articles since they experienced the same type of problems. I heard in the Hebrew wikipedia that the English Wikipedia is a lost case.
• Personally I believe that enforcement is better that punishment. When editors knows that even a petit offense (e.g.
  WP:CANTFIX
  ) will be followed by a warning (only), they will not extend it to more serios behavior, which might need a DRN volunteer lot of attention. BTW If some rules are not enforced, would not it better to get rid of those rules?
• yours:"To get Wikipedia policy changed, you need a lot of discussion". I propose an rules enforcement and not a policy change. Even if it takes a lot of discussion, it will be finished some day. Ykantor (talk) 09:49, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

There is no automatic consensus against you, and it is not a POV-pushing opposition. Take me, if you wish, to be a 'pro-Pal POV-pushing' jihadi lout of the filthiest water if you like, but Pluto 2012 is basically (revisionist) Zionist, while Zero is 'notoriously' neutral but a stickler for exact sourcing. We happen to agree on most of these disputes, I hazard to guess, because we are obsessive about verifiably content, and hunting down good sources, rather than discovering some 'truth' (which you claim is what you aspire to write). As to my neutrality, at

Six Days War I tried to challenge you for editing in a statement about Israel that I thought falsified the facts by an anachronism, in an edit that made Israel look particularly bad. I will also add that, while on very good terms with Pluto 2012, I did not automatically intervene in several disputes you had with him, because I reserved my judgement, unsure as to whether he or you were right. My impression was that, despite your declaration that the truth (on one side?) is your objective, you were a promising editor for the English wikipedia. In my view, many of these disputes arise from an incomprehension of wikipedia policy, which is not concerned with verifying the historical truth, but with assuring that readers get all relevant material of the highest quality before their purview. I privately believe it is not healthy that the major high quality RS here (on wars) comes from eminent (and very good) historians from one side of the conflict. But I have to accept that, and duly edit in material that I privately think skewed because it is impeccably sourced. To illustrate: when you raised a query about an assertion by Henry Laurens (that villagers thought Kfar Etzion responsible for the outbreak of hostilities in December 1947), just to be sure, I undercut or 'problematicized' his point by adding that David Tal noted an attack on Jewish convoys as early as December 10, 1947. A close reader would understand that my second source makes Laurens's statement wobbly, but that, since both are ranking historians, both have to be accepted. Further research will clarify the point - forum shopping will not. Nishidani (talk

) 11:16, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

ps. sorry for the intrusion, Ed. But this is a communication problem, and perhaps some of the difficulties might be thrashed out before an administrator, rather than multiplying the complaints over numerous pages. If Ykantor wishes to register a complaint about me, perhaps he should, if you will bear with us, set it forth here (or at AE).Nishidani (talk) 11:20, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• if the situation is so calm , why have you declined this "Requests for mediation/Kfar Etzion massacre" Requests for mediation ? Please change your mind and cooperate, and then the volunteer (if there will be a volunteer) will decide who is wrong and who is correct.
• yours:"If Ykantor wishes to register a complaint about me". Objection. It is much better to sort out content arguements rather than personal arguement.
• As is, I can not contribute anything in those articles, since a lot of my writing will be deleted (sometimes for a bizzare reason), and there is no functioning dispute resolution mechanism. Ykantor (talk) 11:46, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• (a) I declined for the reasons given. Look at your record. If you find some difficulties on the talk pages, you repeatedly raise the issue at a variety of forums- That's okay, but doing it for every other conflict is extremely time-consuming. I have a huge amount of wood to saw and stockpile, a journey to help relatives in a foreign country, requests to fix deeply flawed articles, and my own work and life to get on with. I simply haven't the time, after complying with one or two requests, to engage in 'dispute resolution' when I think the problem is your inability to WP:AGF and understand key policies like
  WP:NPOV
  . I think you wore out Pluto, so, yep, I'm imposing a limit on the time I have available to work here.
• (b) I am just one of several individuals on the relevant pages. It happens that nearly all concur on the key content issues you raise. Either (a) Zero, Pluto and I are engaged in a conspiracy to tagteam and block you or (b) you are consistently failing to understand the policy grounds all base their objections on. An independant review would make a call one way or another, but your habit by now is to take one, or another, of the editors on the page to some review forum, when in fact no one backs you. I assure you there is no tagteaming.
• (c) I have appreciated from the outset the scruple and drive that guides your editing. We need people, rather than reverting IPs and the usual motherlode of sockpuppets, who are actually prepared to wade through numerous quality sources to get a reasonable picture of the state of the art in historical research. You are clearly capable of this order of hard work. But the flaw in this is your repeated statement that you believe there is some 'truth' to be written into the article. No. There is only the need to (a) isolate the best relevant sources and (b) make sure all information added to articles is verifiable. I know, as a published scholar, how hard it is to adapt to this 'humiliation', but if we work here, we have to accept that the 'truth' wherever it lies, is not, often, within the purview of scholars, let alone humble tillers of their seeded soil like us peons. There are at least two perspectives here - 'truth' is, provisorily and operatively, the sum of the most informed perspectives laid before a third party, for them to make up their minds. That is as far as one can go on wikipedia. If you understand this, and understand that one must not make a 'case' but rather induct all relevant information from both perspectives, then you will not encounter the difficulties you speak of.Nishidani (talk) 12:09, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

With all those nice words, the Litmus test is the cooperation in the

wp:drn. Ykantor (talk

) 17:24, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

The litmus test is convincing more than one person, other than yourself, that you alone know how to edit wikipedia. I have 40 quince apples to peel for jam-making, which is a more productive task than dealing with a

WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. I'm sorry, but you do not appear to understand goodwill, the rules, or the time-limits people have to engage with you on futile quibblings. Goodbye. Nishidani (talk

) 17:54, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, I've tried to be polite, but this suggests to me it is pointless, as I objected hereand here. If Ykantor really believes I do what he charged me as doing, then he should report me to AE. If not, he should strike that out. Back to the woodpile for me. Talking at this point is to no purpose. Sorry for the disturbance.Nishidani (talk) 13:28, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed. I was wondering if I could ask for your help again here. Pine suggested I use OTRS, but in the past they've advised me that OTRS is "not a clearinghouse" for bad information ;-) CorporateM (Talk) 02:19, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Responded at Talk:Diners Club International. EdJohnston (talk) 04:27, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

FYI

I have created a closing script for move reviews, which can found at User:Armbrust/closemrv.js. If you want to use it, than simply add

importScript('User:Armbrust/closemrv.js');

to your

I don't like to revert articles myself after an edit war unless it's a BLP issue or vandalism. Why don't you propose this revert on the article talk page. If there is no response from other editors in a reasonable time, you could go ahead and make the change. The

WP:CSD#A10 and maybe another admin will delete it. EdJohnston (talk

) 04:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I could understand that, I was under the impression that the entire content of an article can not be copy-paste moved to another article in any case, and the entire topic of the article can not be changed without discussion. It is not really a content dispute, it is just general housekeeping as the other article might not be speedyed now since

message me!

05:19, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

It looks like another admin has now taken care of this. EdJohnston (talk) 13:09, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed. I was having trouble moving the article. It should be back to normal now. If not, please provide some assistance over here. Thanks Ben0kto (talk) 15:06, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Another admin has already deleted

Acid Rap (album) which is what I guessed might happen. If you have a plan for how these articles should be organized consider making a proposal at Talk:Esham or some other convenient place. Please try to avoid making further mistakes about article moves. If you just wait a few hours somebody will usually help out. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk

) 15:09, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

I was hoping you might take a look at the draft I posted on the Talk page of the WhitePages article a couple weeks ago. User:John Broughton said he would get to it, but I think he's just busy - hasn't gotten back to me. On account of my COI, I am primarily concerned about having an impartial editor chime in on the best way to cover some criticisms from in the VentureBeat articles mentioned on Talk. CorporateM (Talk) 01:21, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Your article changes are well-intentioned and you seem to understand the policies. I fixed a couple of spelling errors in User:CorporateM/WhitePages. Your draft is missing a couple of images. See where it says '175 px' in the infobox, and look at the image box for the 'Services' section. In my opinion your new draft is better than the current article text. The existing article says nothing about the VentureBeat criticisms and the new draft at least mentions what Matt Marshall said. Nothing would be lost if you replaced the current article text with your draft. Further improvement can go from there. EdJohnston (talk) 02:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Yah, the images are non-free images that I can't fill-in until it's moved to article-space - one of the many not-so-smooth aspects of contributing in a fashion that Wikipedia was never really built around. I'll quote your comments there and make a Request Edit. If it gets implemented, I'll point out the issue again to the GA reviewer eventually, whenever they get around to reviewing it. CorporateM (Talk) 03:28, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

I submitted a Request Edit if you care to do the honors, unless you want me to get more feedback or ask someone else, etc.. Alternatively, I can also make the edit myself if you give me a {{request edit|g}} confirming it is acceptable for me to do so. CorporateM (Talk) 13:48, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Can I bug you for another or have I exhausted my welcome yet? Totally ok if you're all petered out ;-) CorporateM (Talk) 17:24, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Go ahead. EdJohnston (talk) 19:57, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

I have a very small request here regarding an article I have already brought up to the GA standard. However, since I originally updated it, they made an acquisition, went through a rebrand and introduced new products. CorporateM (Talk) 00:36, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Replied at Talk:Hightail#A few updates. EdJohnston (talk) 14:30, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

I've asked User:SlimVirgin here for an opinion on whether it is acceptable for me to make the move myself after you've said it is ok to do so. There are a few RfCs circulating on a paid editing policy and there does not seem to be consensus around whether someone in my position could make such an edit even after being given the go-ahead. Anyways, if I'm not bothering you too much, I also need some help on the Monster (company) page and have been bugging a few editors about it without response. It's only been a few days, but if you have the time/interest to help out, I can get it ready for a GAN that much faster. CorporateM (Talk) 16:57, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and moved the article to

WhitePages (company). If it turns out that someone disagrees we can open a formal move discussion on the article talk, using the {{requested move}} template. EdJohnston (talk

) 01:09, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Ed, I fixed some problems in the Terry Pratchett reflist (diffs) prior to reporting what I thought might be a bug, or inept feature, in the generation of the special page notice.

Having made those fixes (among other things), I linked to a previous version for purpose of report at Category talk: Articles with invalid ISBNs#Appearance in reflist, but you should visit the current version Terry Pratchett for other purposes.

Regarding the huge backlog of invalid ISBN, perhaps other categories may be used to help set priorities. For one example, the intersection of categories Articles with invalid ISBNs and Good articles may be worth special attention. (The Pratchett biography would have been in that intersection this week.) Unfortunately I often experience "time out" or a server problem using category intersection tools, and now is one of those times. --P64 (talk) 19:33, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Is it conceivable that a bot could fix the invalid ISBNs? EdJohnston (talk) 16:00, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the normality / rationality / objectiveness / etc. of your behaviour whilst I've been absent. This is very much appreciated by me, (not only for its specific impact on me and the circumstances related to me and my current "events", but much more importantly), for restoring the faith of people like me in the fact that there are still some people left on Wikipedia who can see past the boundaries of their own ego and their own self importance.
(Sorry if that sounds like a political statement, it is not intended to be - I'm trying to say that it's good to see that there are still people around like you who appear to think that improving the encyclopaedia is more important than being "right". Sadly, it appears to me that people like you are rather few, and rather far between.)
It would seem I am in your debt. Please feel free to recoup that obligation whenever it suits you. Meanwhile ... Thank you! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:46, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't perceive either a question or an answer here, so I don't know what to say. EdJohnston (talk) 16:01, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Ed, This is crazy. PaulMcDonald reported me for warring on an Aaron Jack page. You then said I had to stay away for seven days! Why? All of my new edits are accurate and I did not delete anything after I was to not delete. Adding new information that is accurate should not be something you have a problem with! Do not block me! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uscbubblegirl (talk • contribs) 17:45, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Ed, You are wrong! First, I cited an article and I sourced it. You have no right to delete that information! Secondly, every single thing posted was accurate! Ed- I am AARON JACK's attorney. Quit deleting Aaron's bio information that I post. You are choosing to highlight a defamatory political "hit piece" article and citing it as if it is an objective news article. That is unethical editing and you know it. You are now willfully walking a fine line on the edge of defamation. What you are doing can not be justified simply as strict rules regarding a biographical website. My client will sue you if you block our truthful edits to Aaron Jack's wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uscbubblegirl (talk • contribs) 18:41, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I assure you that editing my client's wiki bio is NOT malicious. If it was I would lose my law license! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uscbubblegirl (talk • contribs) 18:44, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

• talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log
  )

Thanks... Zad68 18:13, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

• If you can't find a diff that suggests Tumbleman was aware of
  WP:ARBPS
  you should consider modifying your block notice on his page to indicate that it's a conventional indefinite block. Then he can apply for unblock through the usual block appeal channels. Generally an admin can close an AE with a conventional (non arb-based) sanction but then whatever the admin chooses to do is appealable at AN or ANI, and doesn't have immunity to reversal by a single admin.

• If you think the situation is too unclear, just undo your closure of the AE and wait for someone else to act. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 18:31, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks Ed. I think the consensus of that discussion was certainly clear enough that the block should be applied, but just the status of the block needed to be changed. I have changed the block message, struck out the AE block message on his User Talk, and replaced it with a standard "conventional" block message. Zad68 19:06, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
• I have also undone the close of the AE discussion, leaving for another to close. Zad68 19:13, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

• NovaSkola (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Hello there. This user was topic-banned (WP:TBAN) from everything related to Armenia or Azerbaijan for six months on 2 June 2013. On 8 July, the user was blocked by you for a month for creating

Most likely a block should be issued to cover the rest of the topic ban period (through 2 December 2013). I prefer not to be the only admin taking action on this case, so please make a request at

WP:ARBAA2. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 16:04, 18 October 2013 (UTC) See my revised comment below. EdJohnston (talk

) 16:53, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I understand. Thank you! --

^talk

16:14, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

On second thought, he is only writing about general Azerbaijan topics and sports, so I personally don't think it's a problem. The Black Garden article was certainly about the AA conflict, so that block was needed, but at the moment I don't see any reason to take action myself. It was Sandstein who chose the extra-strong wording of 'everything related to Armenia and Azerbaijan.' Sandstein also gave him a sports exception on 10 June 2013 that is recorded in

WP:ARBAA2. You could ask User:Sandstein what he thinks. EdJohnston (talk

) 16:35, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

that's a good idea. I will ask him now. --

^talk

16:43, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I want to ask is someone can remove normal reference by just saying fake? Due I've noticed in here, perfect reference has been removed without constructive discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khojaly_Massacre&diff=575301927&oldid=575301252

--NovaSkola (talk) 23:41, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

NovaSkola, the

topic ban restricts you from all discussion of it, even here on this page. So please don't keep asking about it. Your ban expires on 2 December. EdJohnston (talk

) 01:57, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't see this until now. E-mailed them. I coulda sworn it was every 6 months, but every time they help me renew it, they make it substantially shorter (like 2 or something) and it never lets me actually renew it until the deadline's right on top of me in the first place. :\ Bleh. --slakr^\ talk / 11:17, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I wonder if 3rr.php will be affected by the move of some tools to the WMF Labs. EdJohnston (talk) 14:11, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

My name was added to a list within this article arbitration. I do not watch this article and don't recall ever editing it. I have no interest in the article. Nor am I interested in being part of the arbitration process.

It was added with the phrase "known genocide-denier." This label is false. The

I do not believe in negatively labeling people and avoid doing that.

I was attempting to rm my name from the arbitration list per normal vandalism templates, having exhausted all others means. The editor informed me that "anyone" can put a name on this list, after I reverted him several times. He did not mention that earlier. While inconsistent with his previous behavior, the material looked like standard vandalism to me: unsubstantiated, incorrect material in the wrong place.

I do not think that it is a good idea to allow just anyone to maintain a personal

I expect no slack. Just let me know what general set of articles are off limits to minority substantiated opinions. I've lived with a ban on Venezuela. I can live with a ban on all genocide articles and all Armenian articles. I do edit a few articles on violence. Would that be okay? Just let me know. Student7 (talk) 15:06, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

It looks like you've made a number of reverts at

WP:ARBEE but not sanctioned. If you are willing to step back from genocide issues for the moment it's unlikely that anyone will complain. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk

) 17:23, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Exactly Ed, I notified him because of his slow mo edit warring fringe material into the article, and using known genocide deniers as sources, everything is on the talk page for all to see. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:38, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Ed, thanks for your comments at Sandstein's talk page. In my view, the best option is to update the template listed on the case decision page to more closely match the most current amended decision. Although both of the templates you listed are better than {{

It's risky to edit the case itself. I remember the sequence of events since 2012 and it's kind of twisty. Take a look at this old version from January 2012 for comparison. In that version it's evident that 'General 1RR restriction' gives the result of a community discussion which was held at

WP:AN is best if the Arbcom clerks don't object. The underlying issue is that Arbcom itself is usually reluctant to impose a general 1RR across a broad topic. Due to an amendment request in March 2012, they tweaked the wording of the community's 1RR. If all else fails a request at ARCA should fix whatever concerns you, but the committee sometimes goes in circles if you ask them something very technical. They are more suited to 'big picture' questions. EdJohnston (talk

) 00:29, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

I'll try to take a look at this later. I gotta go eat dinner, and I'll be yelled at if I'm late.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:22, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

It was a great dinner. I had already looked at the links you provided above. Despite a certain amount of confusion on the case page as to the current sanctions, I think it's clear that the 1RR restriction applies to all articles in the topic area (here). I think the first bullet point that was struck and apparently amended in the same section could be clearer but that relates only to vandalism. The only remaining issue is the template. I suppose I could wait until the discretionary sanctions review is complete - assuming I remember to bring this up at that time. As for the template, I don't think it's a big deal to update that section of the case page, but I'll defer to your more cautious judgment and leave it alone. I'll just start using one of the other templates you pointed out at Sandstein's page.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:37, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Back in the day, I used to propose my edits to case pages to User:NuclearWarfare (when he was a clerk) and between us we managed to get some routine updates in. There is a magic force field that deters ordinary editing of case pages (at least in my mind). Also, templates cited by cases. EdJohnston (talk) 00:30, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Sounds very mystical/sci-fi. If anyone can destroy a force field, it should be an editor with a handle like NW.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:02, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

When you look at an old case closely enough you are bound to find inconsistencies or things that are not quite right. Certainly there are things that would not be done the same way now. I remember the

WP:TROUBLES case which was very confusing. Luckily most of the problems are now fixed. EdJohnston (talk

) 01:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

The force field is really only in Ed's mind :)

You guys are both experienced admins who work in AE; I don't think anyone would mind if you did basic cleanup on those pages if you let someone know ahead of time (or post-hoc). Or became a clerk (I know Ed has declined many times, but Bbb23, I'm sure the clerks would love to have you). NW (Talk) 02:29, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

While I ponder NW's suggestion that I do more work (I already feel a wee bit stretched, particularly since becoming a trainee clerk at SPI), I have a question for Ed: why did you decline "many times"?--Bbb23 (talk) 01:12, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I might reconsider in the future. EdJohnston (talk) 02:04, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Hopefully, it wasn't your wife who popped the question. :-) --Bbb23 (talk) 02:13, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm trying to limit the number of things I do on WP that may cause aggravation and require patience. Of course actually writing articles is lower-stress than adminning disputes so maybe I should do more of that. It could be time for more improvements at Cell encapsulation. EdJohnston (talk) 02:28, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

In regards to an edit by User:Rogttender who was then blocked as a SP, it seems User:Gate 86 has only made edits to that page alone with no other history. Could this be a spock?(Lihaas (talk) 13:33, 25 October 2013 (UTC)).

Hello. I am not sure how to reduce the size as I am trying to draw attention to the behaviour of 3 editors working as a team in addition to responding claims against myself. Should I file a separate case? Would limiting my response to 1500 words and 60 diffs (500 words and 20 diffs for each editor reported in addition to my response) be reasonable? I can also always refrain from editing Wikipedia, except ARBCOM case, to give administrators more time to review the case? Cavann ^(talk) 18:57, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Why not simply reply to the complaints about your own editing. Everything is expected to follow the conduct policies regardless of what others do. (

WP:NOTTHEM makes a similar point). If admins believe that sanctions for others should be considered but they need more information to decide, they could ask for more statements. EdJohnston (talk

) 19:05, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

But they are related. Major component of the complaint against me is edit warring. How can I answer to that if I don't explain Athenean's slow edit warring, for example? How can I not revert when I'm being ignored at the talk page for more than 2 weeks? Moreover, Athenean's long response exceeding guidelines seems like it was read by Gatoclass. [4] I certainly do not expect admins to pay attention to this during Halloween week. As I said, I can also always refrain from editing Wikipedia, except ARBCOM case, to give administrators more time to review the case. Cavann ^(talk) 19:17, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

If you have limited space and you choose to spend a lot of it criticizing others, that's your affair. Let's hope that the other admins will comment on my proposal to limit statements to 500 words. EdJohnston (talk) 19:29, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Just to let you know: once again, despite being warned, user HistorNE continues with the same behavior (this time on another article), forcing his point of view, without trying to debate or to reach a consensus with other users. Coltsfan (talk) 15:47, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi! You closed my move request today. There where narly a concensus till today since Necrothesp agrees with the wrong title and just wants to move all, or nearly all, "Sankt" to "St." municipalities in Austria at once. Would you consider to re-open the discussion to let SmokeyJoe, who opposed twoday after nearly a month, allow to think about my statement? Best --AleXXw (talk) 22:36, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Do you have a reason to believe that User:SmokeyJoe is reconsidering his position? The move has been open for an entire month. User:Necrothesp is free to propose a move of all the 'Sankt' articles to 'St.' if he wants to try that. If he does not do so, you might consider that option yourself. It is disappointing that the Austrian government does not have a uniform way of handling 'Sankt.' EdJohnston (talk) 00:18, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if he would reconsider his position, but he had only a 3/4 hour to do so before you closed the dicussion. Yeah, I know that it was open a month, but he did his first edit there yesterday... I consider to make a move request for all affected St./Sankt to the right one, but it a bunch of work since the whole german-speaking area (Germany, Austria, Luxemburg, Liechtenstein, parts of Switzerland, South Tyrol, Belgium,...) is effected. But at fist for me it's important that my home town is called in the way it stands in my constitution and nearly everywhere else... --AleXXw (talk) 05:22, 4 November 2013 (UTC) PS: as I mentioned before the whole St./Sankt-problem affects the whole german-speaking area, see ie St. Johann & Sankt Peter, both in german Baden-Württemberg. Thats why we in german language wp decided to hold on governmental records to determinate wich of the variants is the right one.

• HouseOfArtaxiad (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I noticed this edit[5] on the Halil Kut article and my subsequent search which indicated that user:HouseOfArtaxiad had "misrepresented" what the David Gaunt source stated.

"He also crossed into neighboring Persia and massacred the Armenian, Syrian, and Persian population." -- David Gaunt, Massacres, Resistance, Protectors: Muslim-Christian Relations in Eastern Anatolia during World War I, page 109. In that book, it states Halil Kut expelled the Armenian, Assyrian and Persian population, not massacred them.[6] Due to this blatant misrepresentation of a source, I suggest user:HouseOfArtaxiad be notified of the editing restrictions over

Why not open a discussion at Talk:Halil Kut and invite User:HouseOfArtaxiad to participate there. It seems premature to give him an AA warning if you haven't tried to contact him yet. It looks like he is trying to work with the sources. He did cite Halil Kut's memoirs for his boasts about killing Armenians. You are disagreeing with HouseOfArtaxiad about a single sentence, on the issue of killing versus expelling, and whether that exact sentence came from Gaunt's book or one of the others. EdJohnston (talk) 00:56, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Since I seem to be clearly out of line here, I will revert my edit and move on. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:41, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you needed to revert your own text from Halil Kut. At a minimum, the 'massacre' wording needs a different source from that single page of Gaunt's book, which I think you've established above. Your claim of 'blatant misrepresentation' was a bit over the top if you haven't even tried to discuss. It could be a slip that the original editor might be quite willing to fix. EdJohnston (talk) 02:30, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

There's been a further comment on this editor at

WP:ARBAA2, though he did not log this notice in the case. EdJohnston (talk

) 01:51, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed, having stalled after making an attempt, at your suggestion, to submit a WP:SPI regarding the self-styled "Cassandra" IP sock back in the summer, I've now written up a draft on my sandbox. Would you mind casting an eye over it to see if it is along the right lines? By all means I'm happy for you to edit or rewrite it if you wish to do so. I've collected previous discussions on the matter here by the way. Thanks for all your previous help. Mutt Lunker (talk) 00:53, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

This is going in the right direction, but it needs more sources to prove each of your points. Also your criticism of Cassandra at

WP:SPI. Thanks for your efforts on this, EdJohnston (talk

) 01:36, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Mutt Lunker (talk) 07:19, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you kindly for the correspondence. Every time I have had an issue, the Wiki community responds promptly and it is great!--Soulparadox (talk) 04:58, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Seldom do we get such appreciation from people at

CAT:RFUB. You're welcome! EdJohnston (talk

) 18:22, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed, and thanks for the advice. The reason I made a couple of reverts today is that there's one editor who keeps reinserting information that isn't actually in the cited sources and isn't discussing his reasons on the talk page. There's also an issue of the difference between concerns about hypothetical health effects being included as if they were actual health effects, discussion of which is being buried in legalistic arguments about MEDRS.--FergusM1970^{Let's play Freckles} 00:01, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

This response is not a defense to a block for violating 3RR. See

WP:3RRNO for the only recognized exemptions. I recommend that you promise to stop reverting until talk page consensus is reached. EdJohnston (talk

) 00:04, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Pcbyed (talk) 19:25, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello Ed--can you please look at Talk:List of massacres in Turkey and the recent edits to the article (plus, if you like, at the "House of Artaxiad" section on my talk page) and take whatever action you see fit? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:27, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed. I think the sanction on

WP:ARBAA2 for the future reference. Grandmaster

23:21, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cities_and_towns_during_the_Syrian_civil_war

It is in the Sanamayan segment of the talk page. Daki122 (talk) 13:53, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

It appears that nobody bothered to let you know that a move request you closed (at

Thanks, I have commented there. EdJohnston (talk) 21:09, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the move, and for fixing the ref. I have no idea about the technical stuff, I'm afraid. Frickeg (talk) 07:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Reverts of edits made by anonymous IP editors that are not vandalism are exempt from 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring.

To me, this means that the exemptions other than vandalism at

No, the BLP exemption continues to apply, per 'the usual rules on edit warring.' It is easier to understand the above sentence if you remove the phrase 'that are not vandalism' which turns out to be redundant (or almost). Since no IP edits were involved in this particular exchange you don't need to give any thought to the carte blanche for reverting IPs anyway. You're making me think that the language is unnecessarily murky, though in practice there shouldn't be difficulties. EdJohnston (talk) 14:25, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Well, I think it's at least murky. The first sentence is totally unnecessary if the usual rules apply; it should be omitted. Unnecessary substantive language, particularly from an ArbCom decision (they tend to be more legalistic), is concerning. And the second sentence should say "Reverts of edits made by anonymous IP editors are exempt from 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring." The superseding language isn't much better than the old language.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

This modified 1RR was created as an anti-sock measure. On certain contested articles it is suspected that some of the IPs will be socks. For instance banned editors socking around the ban. When tightening the rules (going from 3RR to 1RR) this modified rule still gives an advantage to registered users. If I recall correctly it was User:Timotheus Canens who first proposed this kind of 1RR back in 2010 before he was an arb, but helping create the language for the Arab-Israeli 1RR, which at that time was a community sanction. See this March 2012 Clarification Request for more on the issue. EdJohnston (talk) 22:24, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. Essentially, I'm saying that the adopted language is susceptible to misunderstanding. I realize I'm stuck with it short of seeking another modification. But I'll go with your interpretation, which is that any edit by an IP may be reverted and the usual exemptions apply to reverts of non-IP edits.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:52, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Can you think of a way of making it more clear while having the same effect? EdJohnston (talk) 23:58, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Mr. Johnston: Please read what I actually wrote in the Napster article. The Napster article is biased, e.g., it claims that Napster actually benefitted record sales, whereas in the real world the so-called "file sharing" systems have devastated record sales. I started out by writing this up, including an indisputable cite pointing out that record sales dropped 50% from 1999 through 2009, but my text got deleted. Napster proponents made up this theory that they were actually on the side of the "artists" against the "evil record companies" and they cling to it, even though record sales (circa 2013) are down 65% from the inception of Napster and the biggest losers are composers and musicians. Those individuals who participated in the Napster kleptomania don't like to have their mythologies refuted, so they engaged in censorship, not "editing."

Please read the addition I wrote about the LaMacchia case, the NET Act and the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA), and how they relate to Napster. This text also got deleted because it makes Napster proponents uncomfortable to learn (a) Napster was not original (or "pioneering"), and (b) there was a basis for criminal prosecution of both the founders and users of Napster, but it didn't take place because the Digital Millenium Copyright Act diluted the NET Act. This also got censored by the fanatical pro-Napster individuals who watch the article.

I repeat: Read what I actually wrote. Read they sourced text which the Napster monitors called "unsourced." They initiated this proceeding to silence me. Ironically, I had already given up. ArdenHathaway 14:53, 21 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArdenHathaway (talk • contribs) 14:52, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Please see the advice that was given at

WP:SIGN for how to sign your posts on talk pages. EdJohnston (talk

) 15:42, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

You pissed or what? blog sources used sadredearth.com, yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com, never mind the one he removed, you actually warned me for following BLP. Well done. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:23, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

WP:RS/N. EdJohnston (talk

) 17:33, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Once it is removed ya. What you are saying is a BLP vio (suspected or not) can stay in an article until it has spent a week at some notice board, never gonna happen Ed, SPS and BLP are very clear on this, and you ought to know better. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:43, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Those were commentaries on the views held by Mondoweiss, a site that offers reporting and opinion on contentious issues. Vivid language is used by both sides of that dispute. I don't see your case for irreparable harm if your instantaneous revert were not performed. (The harm being, in your view, so obvious to all that no discussion is required before acting). Is it a terrible thing to cite a blog by Yaacov Lozowick, a man who was the director of the archives at Yad Vashem? EdJohnston (talk) 18:34, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

BLPGROUP would say yes, but given I am more or less done here now it really does not matter, cheers. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:17, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

FYI: Re this thread, please see this diff. Rivertorch (talk) 23:13, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. Editor is now blocked for long-term warring. EdJohnston (talk) 01:41, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello EdJohnston,

sorry for taking this to your talk page, but reports at AN3 are always so long and unflexible.

• Alcastilloru (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• talk | history | links | watch | logs
  )

I left another notice for him. We'll see what happens. EdJohnston (talk) 02:08, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed, quick question. Does my ARBPIA TBAN allow or restrict me from commenting at the ongoing AE case involving Gilabrand and Sepsis? It's unclear to me. Thanks. Plot Spoiler (talk) 01:34, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Under

WP:TBAN you should not participate in that case. Thanks for asking. EdJohnston (talk

) 02:20, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

For sure. Cheers. Plot Spoiler (talk) 02:48, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Based on the history, I'd rather you take any action you think is appropriate after this.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:38, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Nothing is my preference. If either party doesn't like where this is going, I expect we will see a new AN3 or AE report. There is talk of BLP violations. But in the real world, the people on both sides are accusing each other of horrible things anyway. If the article gets out of control I suppose we could full protect for a month and let them debate the fine points at

WP:BLP/N. EdJohnston (talk

) 01:12, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Fires are all over the place now, with threats flying. Take a look at some of the diffs provided here:

• Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Personal_attacks.2C_edit_warring_etc_by_User:Orrerysky_at_Talk:Plasma_cosmology_and_elsewhere.

A topic ban or total ban is needed quickly. --

EdJohnston, please provide advise on how to make an escalation within your system. I would like to talk to your customer service department if possible or with someone in corporate. Bull is showing bias, has been uncooperative and misrepresenting events. Also, I don't mind taking a time out. This is not a threat, but merely a statement of good customer service. I would rather not have to create accounts and tunnel masked I.P.'s and make this a bigger issue. Let's get this issue resolved in a civil fashion. I want your escalation process sent. I want to talk to the service department for corporate. I deal with customer issues like this every day, I will call wikimedia's corporate office if necessary and raise all kinds of heck if I do not get a different admin to help administer this issue. 07:58, 26 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orrerysky (talk • contribs)

See User talk:Orrerysky for the follow-up on this. Per the ANI thread, GWH has imposed a 1RR restriction on this editor for the Plasma cosmology article. EdJohnston (talk) 18:14, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed. I noticed you protected my user page during my block; thanks for that. However, can you extend the protection indefinitely, so that it does not get vandalised? Thanks. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 18:16, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Done. EdJohnston (talk) 18:22, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 18:38, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed, I went through and notified a few people who had edited Austrian topics of the applicable sanctions on the topic area a couple days ago. I noted, as Template:Austrian economics enforcement states, that the notification did not mean they had been engaged in misconduct. One user has been removing his name from the log of notifications at Talk:Austrian economics/General sanctions because he says he has done nothing wrong. See this thread on my talk page. Since you're the only other admin to edit that log recently, could you comment? Mark Arsten (talk) 03:36, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Actually, it looks like the other editor and I have reached a compromise on the issue, feel free to ignore. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:49, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Too late, too late, I already commented at User talk:Mark Arsten#BS warnings. This does come up occasionally and it is often puzzling what to do. EdJohnston (talk) 03:57, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello, EdJohnston! Sorry to stick my nose in here, but I clicked through some links and somehow ended up here where you said the user had 3 blocks since Oct 1. Well, one of those blocks was for socking/block evasion, so he has more than that. This user got off lucky with 48 hours. Sorry to stir the pot. FYI. --64.85.214.223 (talk) 17:04, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Is this post not a violation of the topic ban by HouseOfArtaxiad (talk · contribs)? Also, I believe this is not the only edit he's made to AA topics since 15 October. Grandmaster 20:12, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

There are no more edits by HOA at Talk:Shusha since 25 November. You should be counting from 15 November because that's when the topic ban was imposed. EdJohnston (talk) 15:42, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, that was a mistake. I meant 15 November. And indeed, he made no edits in Wikipedia since 25 November. Grandmaster 20:50, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I will be generous and

Hello Ed, this user was actually topic banned. [27] None of the admins closed the AE request and post the topic ban on his talk page when all 3 admins (You, Georgewilliamherbert and Sandstein) agreed that he should be. And it it was automatically archived today. --

Hello Kansas Bear, I thanked you for informing me and did not revert it. Take a break.

Hi

Yerevanci, I was not topic banned until now. Will be back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yozer1 (talk • contribs

)

The topic ban from AA2 is now logged. I suggest that Yozer1 might want to remove his 'nightmare' comment unless he wants it as part of the record. EdJohnston (talk) 20:29, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I believe EdJohnston acted in haste. Yozer1 (talk) 20:50, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

There was a full discussion at

WP:AE#Yozer1, a thread where you participated. Three admins agreed on the result. EdJohnston (talk

) 01:51, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

I do not agree with your action that since those are the official names for those flags.--TINHO (talk) 05:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to open a

WP:OFFICIAL for our practices regarding official names. Official names "..should always be considered as possibilities, but should be used only if they are actually the name most commonly used." EdJohnston (talk

) 05:18, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidentsregarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.. Veriss (talk) 06:41, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Ed, I am doing my best to stay 100% faithful to my topic ban, so please indicate if I erred at all here User talk:Plot Spoiler#Please explain yourself and if I need to self-rv or anything else. Plot Spoiler (talk) 17:50, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I also finding it troubling and unconstructive that dlv999 [28] appears to be stalking my contributions. Three out of his/her four total edits over the past five days are related to my topic ban. It doesn't appear s/he is committed to constructively building Wikipedia and is instead interested in treating Wikipedia as a battleground. Plot Spoiler (talk) 17:54, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

You should avoid the USS Liberty incident. That incident took place during one of the Arab-Israeli wars. There is an ARBPIA notice on the talk page of Richard A. Falk and in my opinion you should avoid it as well. There is nothing wrong with other editors reviewing your contributions to see if they conform to your ban. EdJohnston (talk) 18:03, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, I've self-rvd those two edits. Thanks Plot Spoiler (talk) 18:04, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed. Can you please take a look at editor Cihsai. Through the course of this year, he has edited no other article besides the

Notified. EdJohnston (talk) 02:49, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed. I have seen your message to me. Fact is that the user who complained about me is inserting a statement into the the lead paragraph without discussing it. The lead paragaraph as well as the paragraphs "History" and "Demographics" which are related to the issue are the result of intense discussions and editing compromises from several years ago. Therefore ı beleive the warning should be adressed to the user who is inserting changes without discussion and not to me. ... By the way, it is true that my activity on wikipedia is limited to Hemshin issue; my home region. I wonder whether that is in any way a violation of Wikipedia rules.Cihsai (talk) 22:20, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

You have not participated at Talk:Hemshin since 2008. Yet here you are on 6 November 2013 in this diff where you remove a claim about Armenian origin at the same time as you remove the reference which was intended to support it. If you don't believe that Simonian's book on the Hemshin is a good reference for the claim of Armenian origin, you could try asking for an opinion at WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. In the past year you have reverted the lead 12 times. This looks to be a case of long-term edit warring. If anyone agreed with you, you would not be the only one removing this material. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 00:47, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

I have inserted a entry in the talk page of the article which may be worthwhile for you to see.. thanksCihsai (talk) 23:44, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

He hasn't quite let up. He just continues to revert.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:10, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Now topic banned. EdJohnston (talk) 04:42, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Ed. I don't mean to raise the alarm bell so quickly again, but just yesterday another user, who has been inactive since 2009, came back to revert the page back to Cihsai's version. The explanations he gave are suspiciously similar to Cihasi's as well. Coincidence? Off-wiki coordination? I can't say for sure, but I thought I'd let you know. Best, --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 17:28, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Notified User:Omer182, who has deleted the same material from the lead as Cihsai. Simonian's book has been offered as a reference for the Armenian origin of the Hemshin. If Omer182 doubts the credibility of Simonian's book, he should go through the appropriate discussions to get it removed from the article. Trying to remove it by warring is unlikely to work. EdJohnston (talk) 18:45, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I have noticed that you have banned me on grounds that ″I have once again reverted the lead of Hemshin peoples to remove mention of possible Armenian descent, without ever achieving consensus for your views″.:I doubt whether you are fully aware of the following:

• The insertion of “possible Armenian descent” into lead paragraph is done without any prior discussion
• The lead paragraph was a long standing stable paragraph prior to this insertion.
• I have made several reverts because some editors have inserted the same sentence several times.
• By each of my reverts I have requested the inserters to engage in discussion.
• Your “Ban” on me adds up to to your interference into the editing of the article on the side of users who refuse to discuss.
  

Kindly lift the ban and allow me to bring the article back to the stable version.In case you are interested in the details of the article, you are most welcome to participate in the discussion as to whether the insertion is meaningful.

By the way, Hemshin is not in Azarbaijan and has no relation thereto. I was never involved in any article related to Azarbaijan and or numerous Armenian related articles.I understand that the Arbitration decisions cover articles related to the arbitration and that this will be interpreted rather broadly. I still find it rather far fetched when Hemshin People as article and myself as editor are considered to be covered thereunderCihsai (talk) 20:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

See the header of the

WP:Arbitration enforcement page for the instructions for appealing your ban there. You should use the Template:Arbitration enforcement appeal. EdJohnston (talk

) 21:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I'm not trawling back for the (abundant) additional evidence but will keep my eye out. Your note resulted in a fairly typical swarming of Austrian Economics contributors and the usual inability to understand policy + misrepresentation. Thus, I've started documenting already. - Sitush (talk) 23:23, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Documentation is good. This reminds me of a comment yesterday by one of the arbitrators on a different subject at RFAR:

If there are clear examples, supported by good evidence, identifying specific editors and/or administrators then this can and should be handled at AE. If there are none of these things, it is currently too nebulous for a case.

In other words, if you actually have organized evidence present it to admins, and try handling it at the admin level. If you *don't* have organized evidence then (in his opinion) it's not worth opening an Arbcom case. 'Nebulous' I think is an apt description for both the case he was referring to and the Austrian economics thing. EdJohnston (talk) 01:23, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd actually already documented stuff at my original ANI complaint. As is common with Aust. Ec. stuff, someone opened a new thread and it was overtaken by events. That tendency itself is rising to the level of disruptiveness but several of those involved seem to do it as a matter of course. Since the provision of decent diffs is generally lacking in the topic area, it looks like I'll have to step up to the mark. There is the added bonus that I'm in neither one camp nor the other :) - Sitush (talk) 06:42, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Are you going to move

You are welcome to open a new move discussion. This link to OSU's web site (see bottom of page) shows he was still signing himself as E. Gordon Gee as of January 2012. EdJohnston (talk) 22:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Ed, what's your opinion on whether this article should be subject to

I've placed the Template:Syrian Civil War sanctions on the article but for now I won't add the edit notice. EdJohnston (talk) 04:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

SIR, User:Sitush has some serious issues particularly with Meenas wiki page. This article has been evolved, corrected and referenced over last 7 years and User:Sitush has not provided any evidence to counter any of the facts presented in this article. Simple deleting some text does not make article valid or correct. Put some efforts and ready history books, gazette letter found on Google book related to Meenas past and history. All I can see from Sitush is biased and unfair text removal from this article. Someone need to stop user Sitush, and I also see his own page is full of complains.

TO ADMINISTRATORS PLEASE: It is now confirmed that sitush is intentionally behind Meenas article..he is continuously hiding the well known Truth and distorting the article since Beginning. In his eyes..Any reference is not valid which shows the Truth. Like Tod he is fond of rajputs and Now he had inserted Negative points for the most loyal community of India/Meenas... by indirectly calling them bandits or criminals. He messed the article. THE ARTICLE WAS BEST AND COMPLETELY TRUE AS ON 01/01/2012. IN WIKI as a contributor our mission is to present the real truth and real history of a community or race. Am asking the administrators..what is the need of this great n huge wikipedia...when it fails to show the TRUTH.

Somebody has to stop him and he should blocked him to edit Minas article anymore..

You can see all other editors are complaing about him since 1year.. SIR OUR REQUEST IS "PLEASE STOP HIM TO EDIT ARTICLE MEENA" Others comment about him..

Expermely hippocratic argument and you are right about your self "we don't tolerate caste POV warriors here". I have seen more of your edits are dehumanising, derogatory towards certain communities. Also, you are just self proclaimed ignorant.

Sir Please block him for this article..this is our request since 1.5 year.Omkara1188 (talk) 11:37, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be conducting an edit war at

Meenas you risk being blocked for WP:Edit warring or being banned from this topic under the caste sanctions. Instead of reverting, you should join in discussion on the talk page. If you possess good sources for your views you should be able to provide them. It is best to supply the actual wording of the source and the page number where it occurs. Questions about the reliability of a source can be taken to WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk

) 14:23, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Ed, so you left a very lovely note on my talk page. Of course, I responded. You said: WP:No personal attacks provides that "Derogatory comments about other contributors may be removed by any editor. Repeated or egregious personal attacks may lead to blocks."

Though I know very well the definition of "derogatory" I did look it up again for your purposes and according to Merriam-Webster, it is defined as: expressing a low opinion of someone or something; showing a lack of respect for someone or something.

Now certainly, how one defines and perceives lowly or disrespectful is subjective to the individual. My question to you, since you defend the removal of comments of others before engaging in diplomacy is this: if "I" feel a comment towards me is "derogatory" to myself, am "I" allowed to remove such comments under

Dear Ed, I guess you remember you blocked me yesterday for war edits on Holodomor article. I'm not going to complain on that, but I would ask you to be my first tutor on en-wiki, as I'm making my first steps here. There is a group of non-neutral editors, who blocking some changes to the article which they do not like. I opened a new topic on talk page — [29] at ample time, but my agruments (proved by quoted RS) were simply ignored, as well as my additions to the article - [30] — even they were proved by RS given. So, my question is: what should be my further actions, in such situation in the article Holodomor, when a group of editors ignoring arguments and doesn't have a will to find consensus? Thanks in advance. HOBOPOCC (talk) 08:34, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Your edits so far indicate you are a

WP:Single purpose account. You seem to be editing various articles to strengthen the Russian side of certain questions. Here at Pavlo Skoropadsky you decide that the Russian spelling of his name must have priority over the Ukrainian. While single-purpose accounts are not forbidden, you must accept it will take you some time to acquire credibility. If you wait to get consensus at Talk:Holodomor before making your changes again, you should not have any problems. If you provide only sources in the Russian language you must accept that English-speaking admins won't figure out what you are doing. In some cases these topics will must surely have been covered in English as well, and taking the time to find English sources would help you persuade others. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk

) 16:34, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for your answer! May be I explained me wrong, but you focused on my intentions in wikipedia, doesn't matter you were right or wrong, but what I asked you, as a newcomer here, what would be NEXT PLATFORM(what page) to discuss conflict at, as I know already for sure, that on talk page of the Holodomor article we will never find consensus with my opponents, as they simply non-neutral and do not want even to pretend to be neutral. As about translation of texts into English - surely I realize this requirement. At the moment of discussion on Holodomor talk page all my correspondents were Russian-speakers. But, definitely, if discussion would go to another level or any new editors wold join the discussion all translations would be done. So, whom should I apply for resolution on my conflict with non-neutral editors on Holodomor article? What would you suggest? HOBOPOCC (talk) 18:51, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Content disputes are solved by the editors involved.

WP:RS/N. EdJohnston (talk

) 20:29, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Again many thanks for your answer. So, do you think that

WP:DRN would be right place to open a topic at, in case if we do not find consensus on talk page of Holodomor article? And one more question: you wrote above «...I don't think that's your problem» — so, what do you think my problem is? I have feeling that you missunderstand my intentions in the article Holodomor.HOBOPOCC (talk

) 11:07, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to open a thread at

WP:Request for comment. It helps if you can make a clear statement of what the dispute is about. Before filing at DRN you could leave a note at Talk:Holodomor giving your proposed statement of the dispute. DRN is voluntary so you are depending on others choosing to participate there. My own observation is that the sourcing should be improved. It looks to me that the talk page discussion made some progress on 30 November. EdJohnston (talk

) 15:39, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

• Dear Ed, sorry for bothering you! You know, one of my oponents blaimed me that I «falsified two sources». I think this is seriuos charge and if it's false by nature (and it's false) editor who acting such way should take responsibility for false charge. Can you, please, give me an advise what WP-page should I enter to file a complain against my oponent as regards these false charges? HOBOPOCC (talk) 19:31, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

It sounds to me that you should be able to negotiate a compromise with User:Lvivske. Lvivske and others are saying that there were political decisions taken by Stalin to ensure special famine suffering in the Ukraine. You should be able to study the sources with enough care to see which historians agree with that and which ones disagree. Nobody denies that there was famine outside the Ukraine. So your statement "famine in Ukraine was in context of all Soviet-Union famine" is trivially true, but not very useful for deciding if there was a Holodomor (a worse-than-usual famine that was politically manipulated). EdJohnston (talk) 19:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

For the record, since he wants to actually file a complaint against me as his

opponent: I pointed out all the issues I had with his cherry picking of source quotes, others agreed. He'd rather fight the fact that I pointed out his issues ("false charges!") rather than actually defend what he did on the talk page. This is getting silly.--Львівське (говорити

) 20:03, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

User:HOBOPOCC, if you have no clue on how to collaborate on sourcing with others at Talk:Holodomor it might be simpler to ban you from that topic than cater to your requests for further appeal venues. The other editors are posing reasonable questions to you that you should be able to answer. If you are banned, then you can make your case in the Arbitration enforcement appeal system. EdJohnston (talk) 20:12, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

It is imposible to find consensus with politicaly non-neutral and hate-motivated group of editors. You wrote yourself now: «So your statement "famine in Ukraine was in context of all Soviet-Union famine" is trivially true», but it was you, who blocked me for edits warring, because my edits, supplied by 4 RSes were deleted by this group of editors by fake reasons. If you are going deeper yourself into discussion on Holodomor article, I want to pay your attention to some words of Assembly Parlamentary of Counsil of Europe Resolution # 1723: Commemorating the victims of the Great Famine (Holodomor) in the former USSR... It furthermore encourages the authorities of all these countries to agree on joint activities aimed at commemorating the victims of the Great Famine, regardless of their nationality. Don't you underatsnd that this resolution calls famine as Great Famine (Holodomor) in the former USSR? «Holodomor» — is the name for great famine in Ukraine. But this famine happened not only in Ukraine — this great famine happened «in grain-growing areas of the» USSR, as this Resolution said. And Resolution 1723 correctly, clearly and straight tells about it. Anyhow, I want to make some legal wiki-appropriate steps against editors, who, being not able to defend their edits fair-wiki-way (discussing on oponent's RSes, providing their own Rses proving their position, etc.) are making personal attacks on me and even declaring that I «falsified... sources». Can you help me, please? HOBOPOCC (talk) 20:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

No one can help you, HOBOPOCC, sine you repeatedly show that you

do not like to listen comments of other editors. Considering that you define yourself as a Russian Nationalist at Uk-Wiki, I assume that you accept only arguments supporting the controversial hypothesis of Holodomor in context to other famines in USSR. You see only “non-neutral editos”, who basically stop your POV-pushing.--Andrux (talk

) 22:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Again, HOBOPOCC, your reading of Resolution #1723 is indicative of your reading of the article and synthesis you've been pushing on the Holodomor talk page. You have constructed a limited interpretation of the contents and implications. Resolution #1723 at no point states that the COE have closed this chapter and given it a generic title. There is no, "Henceforth, it will be known as the Great Famine (Holodomor) in the former USSR for the rest of written history.". How did you manage come to such a conclusion, given that they are encouraging the opening of archives and access to as much information as exists in order that regional 'peculiarities' can be better analysed and understood by researchers from all parts of the world? The Resolution marks a beginning for recognition of the events of that era, not the end. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:42, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Dear Ed, I'm waiting for your answer. HOBOPOCC (talk) 07:13, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

My advice is to work with the other editors on the talk page. See

WP:RFC. You can pursue the issues that people mention in the RfC, and try to find better sources. I don't see the argument that you are dealing with "politicaly non-neutral and hate-motivated group of editors". Eastern Europe is always difficult and it takes patience. Consider the possibility that you are being outvoted by a group of well-intentioned people. Try to change their minds, if you can. EdJohnston (talk

) 14:51, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Dear Ed, please, just have a look at posts my opponents made recently: (a) Lvivske «passing a ball»; (b) Iryna Harpy took it and «giving her pass». Productive discussion, doesn't it? Don't you think now that this is pure personal attacks? I paid attention of administrators in the past, and not once, that posts of Iryna Harpy at talk pages contain almost no any subject-related-information, but personal attacks only — one, two — but it wasn't any outcome. Positive input of Iryna Harpy to discussion is almost zero, her posts at their mosts are personal attacks only. How can such beheviour be stopped? HOBOPOCC (talk) 07:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

HOBOPOCC, EdJohnston has already been called in as a third party and has involved himself in as much as is in his capacity (and as much as he feels is prudent). He has provided you with a link to options for other forms of dispute resolution (link above). His work on the matter is done. If you wish to lodge formal complaints against me, by all means do so. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:22, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Your comments and warning are totally incorrect.

I am not reverting the page to something "New" im reverting it back! Why should i have to come to a "consensus" on the talk page as i was not looking to change the page in the first place. Also its a little bit difficult to come to a consensus when the agent provocateurs trying to rewrite history wont go on the talk page. Why does everyone on wikipedia speak like robots? There is a huge injustice happening here but no one seems to care about the facts. It seems the only concern of Wikipedia is procedure.

Please answer this one simple question for me....If other users wont come to the talk page and reach a consensus, what shall i do then? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.111.196 (talk • contribs)

Best Regards.--Judgejoker 18:24, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Judgejoker. Please become familiar with our rules about WP:Edit warring. You're expected to follow these rules whether you agree with them or not, and whether or not we sound like robots. If you try to persuade others on the talk page, and wait for their support before editing again, you will be on safe ground. Note that our policy contains no wording about 'agent provocateurs' and your claim that you are reverting such people will not save you from a block. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 19:47, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Ed, Thank you for the notice on my talk. I do understand your concern. Nevertheless, I feel the need to appeal to you to make sure that you have a complete understanding of the development history of this article as briefly outlined below. I also kindly as for your clarification and guidance regarding my below raised questions- as your intervention raised my curiosity and interest:

• The article has experienced lengthy and detailed discussions earlier through which it reached the maturity level to ensure stability for a number of years. During these discussions, the article was considered section by section and gradually improved using all the referenced material available- occasionally resorting to mediation procedures initiated by me to avoid wholesale reverts. It is interesting to note that most of the editors who used to implement such wholesale reverts or refused discussion now appear in the list of supervised editors in mentioned arbitration. The discussions to a great extent included exchanges related to the very recent insertion repeatedly made into the lead with no discussion or effort for consensus.

A brief look at Talk:Hemshin and the body of the article will make it evident to you that the recent insertion undermines recorded discussions that involved several admins and calls for mediation. Now, I would be grateful if you could clarify the below and guide me through your recently imposed notice:

• I am having difficulty in understanding why it is the case that an undiscussed modification to the lead of an article which has achieved its current form through a lengthy consensus building is ok in your perspective, whereas my call for discussion before engaging in such major edits is not? Interesting to note also that your warning to me comes right after my very first intervention whereas repeated insertion of the same clause to the lead of a stable article does not deserve any notification.
• I happen to be interested in the Hemshin region and its history, and therefore contribute mostly on this article. Is this in contradiction with any Wikipedia policies? I am not a professional wiki editor, but feel the need to contribute here as I do have relevant material. My edit came recently simply because I observed an undermining of earlier discussions after a period of stability. Having said this, could you please comment on your remarks here about my intervention in relation to Wikipedia:Assume good faith.

It is nice to have an admin interested in the article, as it experienced intense edits wars earlier before it enjoyed stability for 4 years as a result of the detailed discussions on the talk page – until recent- undiscussed edits along the lines of those who are now supervised under mentioned arbitration. I kindly ask for you clarification and guidance along the above issues.Omer182 (talk) 17:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

It is funny to see people reverting in 2013 based on what they claim was decided by consensus in 2008. I am not sure that a consensus was reached in 2008. My attention was drawn to this article by one of the participants since

a current discussion which asks whether Simonian's book is to be relied on for its statement about Armenian origin of the Hemshin. Feel free to participate there. EdJohnston (talk

) 17:40, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. It looks like you have already banned one user, and warned me that you will do the same in case I remove the addition, repeatedly inserted by the same two users, with no prior discussion. The reference mentioned is already in the article itself, and the inclusion of the sentence in the lead disrupts the coherency. Your warning keeps me away from editing this article. Kindly consider removing your warning to achieve a balanced view. Omer182 (talk) 16:33, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

My warning was "If you are hoping to win the war by reverting more often, please know that these articles are under close scrutiny by administrators." My main concern is about you repeating your previous change without consensus. If you can persuade the other editors on the talk page, then no doubt your requested change will be made. If you consider this change to be very important, then it's probably worth opening up a

Talk:Hemshin peoples is quite disappointing. People should be searching for published reviews of the major articles and books. If nobody from either side is prepared to do any real work with sources, then full protection of the article should be considered. There is some hint that User:Ali-al-Bakuvi and User:JackalLantern may have specialist knowledge (there are perhaps others) and I hope those who have knowledge can do more to advance the discussion of sources. EdJohnston (talk

) 17:01, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Administrators haven't been able to resolve the dispute because very few if any of them have much knowledge on the Hemshin. This isn't surprising since there are hardly any English-language publications on them–the (peer-reviewed) Simonian text was really the first of its kind. As I've explained on the article's talk page, I feel the introduction is "balanced" enough; unfortunately, in my experience, the only "balance" some have wanted to bring to it is to jettison mention of Armenian provenance (for political reasons). Jackal 06:57, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Aloha. I noticed that you and others often provide helpful links to AN3 reports in the logs of your blocks. The problem is, these links can't be resolved after the discussion is archived. Of course, one can eventually find the links given this information, but it takes additional time. I'm wondering if you can figure out a way to link directly to AN3 (and other) reports that will allow users to find to browse directly to the linked reports. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 04:48, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

A great idea, which I don't know how to implement. The closest I've seen is the permalink feature used at WP:Requested moves/Technical requests. See an example -- in my move log there's an edit summary moved page Der weiße Rausch to Der weisse Rausch (Requested at WP:RM as uncontroversial (permalink)) where the word 'permalink' goes to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/584864133. I.e. it takes you to a version of the page WP:Requested moves/Technical requests on which you can see the original move request.

Per this diff it appears that the permalink is the idea of User:Wbm1058. A person would have to be good at template coding to do such a thing. Maybe a similar gimmick could make permanent links to 3RR complaints. EdJohnston (talk) 05:16, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Viriditas (talk) 06:08, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed.

I tried blocking ThisIsaTest (talk · contribs) but, from this block log, nothing special happened, i.e. no permalink that I can see. This does sound like the right approach. EdJohnston (talk) 17:03, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Debug:

• Here is the generated URL from the 'Block' button of your special userlinks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Block/ThisIsaTest&wpReason-other=%28%5B%5BSpecial%3APermalink%2F%7Cpermalink%5D%5D%29

• Here is the generated URL from trying a technical move:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MovePage&wpOldTitle=Colloquium+marianum&wpNewTitle=Colloquium+Marianum&wpReason=Requested+at+%5B%5BWP%3ARM%5D%5D+as+uncontroversial+%28%5B%5BSpecial%3APermalink%2F586338699%7Cpermalink%5D%5D%29&wpMovetalk=1

OK, here is my revision of your URL:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Block/ThisIsaTest&wpReason=Other&wpReason-other=%28%5B%5BSpecial%3APermalink%2F%7Cpermalink%5D%5D%29

I think you need to set values BOTH into wpReason and wpReason-other. The word 'Permalink' is propagating now into the 'other reason' field but there is no actual permalink yet. I didn't bother setting the duration field, but that could be added. EdJohnston (talk) 17:24, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

I was hoping it would let you choose a reason from the drop-down menu and append the custom permalink reason, but it seems it's either-or. Other on the drop-down must be chosen to use the custom reason. I updated the sandbox template. Try it again. I think leaving wpExpiry (expiry time) unspecified may be the best approach, so different expiry times can be chosen for different situations. Admins should chose an expiry time and check any desired boxes before clicking on the Block button. Wbm1058 (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, your change makes it work now! Perhaps I'll find a way to try it out. EdJohnston (talk) 20:29, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Very good. I see in your block log that you typically link to the specific WP:AN3 section which is helpful because that page is so long. But that section link is only good until it enters the vast Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchives. So, while I didn't think permalinking section anchors was needed for technical move requests, it's needed here. I'll work on that. Wbm1058 (talk) 15:30, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Ed, what does "collapse" mean ? That the contents are only visible to the parties concerned ? In any case, I think it's better that way. I don't like the way our exchange suddenly turned into another place of conflict with the other editor. At first I thought we could come to some kind of dialogue in the neutral framework of your talk space but unfortunately it didn't work out that way, turning communication into another case of war. Sorry about that.Aerecinski (talk) 09:01, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

'Collapse' means that I put a header on the discussion. It should continue elsewhere. The best place is the article talk page, but it should be limited to the content matters. If you believe it is essential to talk about the behavior of other editors you can go to ANI, but they will not consider content questions. EdJohnston (talk) 17:27, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Hate to end up on you talk again so soon, but I think we've reached the point of "intervention or endless edit war" over on

Hello, EdJohnston. The reason I revert Lvivske's edit is that he removes large text parts and serious sources without explanation. If he wants to correct grammar mistakes or add new facts, I welcome this (as long as they are relevant and representative), but I demand that he does it in a civilized way, combining my parts and his parts and not recklessly replacing them by his own. --Shervinsky (talk) 15:52, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I never removed any sources or large swaths of text. You, however, did remove a few sentences and 3 refs I inserted last night. Also, to say I did anything "without explanation" is deliberately disregarding my edit summaries and dozen or so points I've made on the talk page in the last few days. Are we reading the same edit history here? --Львівське (говорити) 16:22, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

And now he has made another full revert of another editor involved 4 --Львівське (говорити) 16:21, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Please be notified that I appealed the ban you imposed on me on

I am writing this request as you made a comment at the talk page before.[36] Current RM is ongoing for almost a week. The requested name is a violation of the

The page became the place of edit warring. Some editors removed[37]/collapsed[38] inconvenient discussions for them.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 01:11, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Since seven days have run on the move discussion, any admin may decide to close the discussion and state the consensus. From a very quick look, it appears that the move proposal is unlikely to succeed. (This is without yet doing a study of all the policy issues). I am concerned that some editors such as yourself are trying to refactor the discussion. This is not needed. Any closer who is willing to tackle this will be prepared to do a proper job. It may take a few days before anyone is willing to do this, so just be patient. Misbehavior during the discussion may lead to sanctions, so please wait for consensus before altering the page. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 02:19, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. I added your intention to the talk page.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 02:51, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 19:57, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

talk) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia

, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{

subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec13

}} to your friends' talk pages.

I've undone my close and will leave it for someone else. I'd have to disqualify a large number of votes as misunderstandings of policy to arrive at a net consensus in favor. EdJohnston (talk) 17:37, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Bardrick.

For some reason, this post makes me feel compelled to write my own version. Like "Dear EdJohnston. You are welcome to my Talk page anytime, as long as you are civil, thoughtful and assume good faith. I appreciate your valuable input and promise to thoughtfully consider your constructive feedback anywhere you choose to provide it. Naturally we may not always have the same opinion about how an article should be, but I'm confident we can work it out and when we can't, we can get more editors involved."

Better, no? I definitely wouldn't tell someone to "get a life" that is, so long as I don't have one myself. But then can someone be a good Wikipedian and have a life too? Maybe such a comment is a compliment on ones editing skills, there being a reverse relationship between the two.

Anyways, Ed. You seemed to have an interest on the SAS software page and I was wondering if you were going to add that source you found or if you wanted me to throw something together for it? Also, if you had an opinion on the Products/Applications section I proposed on Talk. I have mixed feelings - it seems reasonable to describe the actual products and it is the feedback I got to create the section, but the sourcing is not great - OTOH, the material is non-controversial and a de-facto part of an article and doesn't need spectacular sources...

I would be content going with whatever you think. CorporateM (Talk) 20:37, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

sir kindly remove this statement for an entire community.. as this is dispted among contributors and false too.

"the Minas are possibly of inner Asiatic origin, and tradition suggests that they migrated to India in the 7th century

please remove this for the timebeing,request to adminOmkara1188 (talk) 14:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

For anyone curious, this is about

talk

) 15:28, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ed, you recently protected Great Jones Street from editing except by administrators, due to an edit war on the page. One of the participants of the edit war, JHunterJ, is an admin and can still technically edit the page (although he hasn't edited it yet). Is there anything that you can do about that, such as protect the page from editing by administrators, or should the protection just be left as is? Epicgenius (talk) 17:56, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Arbcom takes a dim view of admins editing through protection in order to win an article dispute. This is not something to worry about here. EdJohnston (talk) 18:06, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for your quick reply. Epicgenius (talk) 18:08, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate the fact that you noticed my complaint about this IP user. I talked to User:Diannaa, who took action on my complaint at ANI, but she said it would be difficult to block him. Do you think there is a way to block this vandal and troll? If so, it would be the best course of action, in my opinion. The policy violations are one thing and the edit warring too, but him following me on every article I edit to start trouble is harassment, in a more veiled way, though. He has this mistaken belief that I love the black mamba and I am only trying to promote how deadly it is. It isn't my fault that biologists are of the opinion that the black mamba is the species which presents the highest level of danger to humans. I love venomous snakes - all of them,. I have worked with them for years, and I have a wealth of material on the subject. So I enjoy expanding articles, improving them with information that wasn't there and than trying to upgrade them to GA status. I have begun my work on the Many-banded krait and I have already expanded it substantially. That's just the start though. This happens to be a highly deadly species too, so I expect him to harass me there soon. This IP user is likely a teen or a very immature, uncivilized and uneducated adult. Either way, he ruined the Inland taipan article (it's back to the way it was now). Just because I started with the black mamba, he assumed it was my favourite snake and he was projecting his own unsavory trait unto me (his favorite is the inland taipan and wanted to somehow prove it was the deadliest snake, despite no human fatalities have ever been attributed to it So he believed what he was doing on the inland taipan page was the same thing I was doing on the black mamba page - psychological projection at its finest). I do love mambas in general, as I do the cobras. That isn't going to guide my editing of these articles. I don't care if one species is deadlier than the other or one is more aggressive than the next. Those aren't important things. They may be fun to debate, but they aren't relevant. Only what is written about these creatures in scientific literature is what matters and that is what should guide the editing of these articles. If there is a way to block him, it would be a great thing not just for me, but for Wikipedia as a whole. Sorry for my lengthy post and again, thank you. --DendroNaja (talk) 10:08, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

In a quick look, I decided that the range he was using was too large to block. He's coming from more than one /16 range. So long as you continue to work on taking these articles to GA it's justifiable (in my opinion) to keep issuing semiprotections. Though this person is a nuisance, the word 'harass' is a bit strong. He's more like a long-term edit warrior. EdJohnston (talk) 15:22, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Ed, the "Cassandra" IP sock has become very active again, despite some concerted attempts at reasoning with them and I've had to start removing forum-style posts again. I've rewritten and revised evidence for a WP:SPI in my sandbox. Would you be able to take a look at this new version to see if it's on the right lines please? Mutt Lunker (talk) 04:31, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your work. It will be at least 24 hours before I can look into this more, but meanwhile here are some past IP blocks with which I attempted to curtail Cassandra's IP-hopping activities. The problem was discussed at ANI in November 2012. In general your report should be much shorter and only hit the high spots. The behavior is clearly disruptive and the main question is what to do about it. This is independent of whether the sock has any good arguments. They have lost any claim to our sympathy due to their behavior and the falsification of sources mentioned in the ANI thread. If you go to SPI (which you should) the advice might wind up being 'Revert, Block, Ignore', though the SPI patrollers will probably check the IP ranges to see if they are practical to block. One of your suggestions might be semiprotection of the most frequented talk pages.

–EdJohnston (talk) 05:26, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Ed and I'll tighten it up. No worries if there's a delay; may not get a chance to look at it further today anyway. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:56, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I noticed you removed my entry on technical move requests. I'm a little confused, so I'm here to ask why you did that. The

Sorry I removed your technical request by mistake. See

User talk:Corvoe#Bubba Ho-Tep for follow-up. EdJohnston (talk

) 17:20, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I went ahead and did the move from

Bubba Ho-tep to Bubba Ho-Tep. EdJohnston (talk

) 17:26, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, FYI, considering the warring IP's geographical location, extreme animosity toward me, and connection to Terence McKenna, it is a likely sock of Tumbleman, who was recently caught socking for the umpteenth time. It was a different person who originally added the crazy stuff to Terence McKenna‎ -- the person behind these SPIs:

• Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Antichristos/Archive
• Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/8i347g8gl/Archive
• Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/198.189.184.243/Archive

You topic-banned 198.189.184.243 in September. Off-site, the user also admits to the socks

• Pottinger's cats (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Blastikus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

whose contributions match the style and content of other socks.

Consolidating these SPIs may be helpful in dealing with future socking, though it may not be worth the time. The content flowing out of these prolific socks has to be among the nuttiest stuff added to Wikipedia, e.g.

The redshiftedness of the Mongoloids and the blueshiftedness of the Jews imply that they are the broad Epimethean and narrow Promethean parts of the same funnel-shaped gravity well.[39]

vzaak 20:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. If you are following the SPI reports you may know whether any of this needs to be submitted at SPI as new information. Do these observations suggest any new action that could be taken? EdJohnston (talk) 21:07, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

It's mainly an FYI that all these accounts are the same person. I noticed you had some earlier dealings with Antichristos and Pottinger's cats as well. If merging SPIs is generally seen as useful then I could explicitly connect these accounts, and/or maybe enter it as a long term case. Your protection comment[40] likely references the wrong sock (it was likely not person which was vandalizing in the past), but that doesn't really matter. vzaak 22:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

The person blocked in the Sept 2012 3RR report was User:Final3211. Do you think that was somebody else? In general I'd suggest you retain all this information off line and then submit it if you have a new issue that needs admin action. Or you could ask a SPI clerk for their advice. EdJohnston (talk) 00:31, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I took the protection comment too literally, taking it to mean that 192.69.217.195 is a sock of the persistent vandal, which would likely be wrong -- 192.69.217.195 is likely the sock of a different hardcore troll. The contents of the 3RR report is what the protection comment is really about. Yes, Final3211 and God the Son are the same person behind Antichristos/8i347g8gl/etc. It's an open question whether everything should be conglomerated into one big SPI, or just let it be. vzaak 01:40, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I will definitely be more careful to leave a full day (rather than 22 hours) between edits in the future.

I had believed that I had left a day between the edits, although I hadn't timed it carefully enough (hence why I state that I didn't notice an IRR violation above). But I will count the time more carefully next time.

As for the content of the edit. I would think it is uncontroversial (as per

WP:V) that we should use the name in the article that the sources that we are citing use. Simply, the names used in the article should be the same as the names used in the sources. Avaya1 (talk

) 16:34, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

What's essentially at issue here is that a few editors want to impose a picture ban on the black egyptian hypothesis article, although several editors want to add pictures. Consensus is a hard thing to come by when editing these articles, so usually I wait for a positive comment from editors that usually oppose my edits and then I know that the edit is okay. I received that response when editor Aua said "NVM, I kinda dig this whole gallery thing." Since Aua practically never agrees to any of my edits, it sounded like a consensus to me. The flip side of this argument is that the pictures were previously in the article (a year ago) and clearly there isn't consensus to remove them. Shouldn't the same rules apply?Rod (talk) 21:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Moved to User talk:Dailey78

Hello EdJohnston,

I'm writing you with reference to your decision to move the

If you are interested, here is a short summary of the article's move history:

The article was created by me as The Libertarians on 26 February 2007. For fully six years the article's name remained stable. On 28 February 2013 User:RJFF moved the article to Die Freiheitlichen and on 2 March 2013 I moved it to The Freedomites (RJFF had nothing to say about that as he had been supporting the use of Freedomites as part of another article's name—see here and here). Eight months later, on 11 November, User:QuartierLatin1968 moved the article to Freedom Party (South Tyrol); although I could live with that name, I rollbacked his edit and started to discuss. On 19 November the article was moved back by User:Gryffindor to The Libertarians on 19 November 2013. Before and after that, User:Sajoch has been repeatedly moving the article with no consensus.

The law of the strongest should not prevail in Wikipedia. I'm thus asking to please move the article back to The Libertarians or The Freedomites.

Many thanks for your cooperation. --Checco (talk) 10:52, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) What do you mean by "the law of the strongest"? Erpert ^{WHAT DO YOU WANT???} 11:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello Checco. If you want the article moved again, please open a {{

WP:RM. After seven days an admin will close the discussion and state the consensus. EdJohnston (talk

) 13:43, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello Ed, I don't understand your answer. In fact my request was quite uncontroversial.

The article was arbitrarily moved to Die Freiheitlichen and protected from moves, but there has never been a broad consensus on that name. There was an ongoing discussion on the talk page, then, by a sleight of hand (not to say something worse), Sajoch exploited the holidays to move the article to his preferred name (Die Freiheitlichen) and was so lucky to have it protected. He did that, ignoring consensus and the talk (as he had repeatedly done with other articles in the past—see here), and, instead of being penalized, he was rewarded: this is what I mean with "law of the strongest".

I know the issue is a little bit complicated. In fact, you are not the first admin to be cheated by Sajoch. On 19 November User:Gryffindor first moved the article from The Freedomites to Die Freiheitlichen, but then acknowlegded his mistake and moved the article to The Libertarians ("restore original name of article, discuss first"). That's what we need to do: restore the original name (The Libertarians, February 2007–February 2013) or the most recent stable name (The Freedomites, February–November 2013) and go back to discussion. I'm sure it was not your intention to appease and favor an aggressive user like Sajoch, thus I trust your good faith and ask you to follow Gryffindor's example. --Checco (talk) 14:49, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

See the instructions at

WP:RM. It is easier to do it the right way than to keep complaining about other people. If you do in fact have consensus for your version, then the discussion will reveal it. EdJohnston (talk

) 17:02, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Why the version imposed by an aggressive user (Sajoch) without consensus should be the one online now? It is Sajoch not me that should have started a WP:RM instead of deciding to disrupt a peaceful discussion. Why should you favor Sajoch instead of others users who have continued to talk and abide to WP rules? I'm very sorry about that. --Checco (talk) 13:29, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Ps: What I'm asking you is just a technical move, in order to re-establish the situation prior to Sajoch's move without consensus.

Unless a new consensus is formed, there is no reason why the article should stay at Die Freiheitlichen. It is very sad to see an administrator taking sides in a controversy with users, it is even more sadder to see an administrator taking the side of an agreessive user who has imposed his view on others. I still believe in your good faith and judgement. By moving the article to Sajoch's preferred name, you tilted the discussion in his favor and, as you know, it is difficult to move pages: any WP:RM would be influenced by the current name, which is there thanks to Sajoch's sleight of hand. Please take a look to the article's history (Die Freiheitlichen was never an established name), read carefully the whole talk and re-consider your decision by moving the article to its previous established name. --Checco (talk) 12:43, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Re

1. more explanation of what, if anything, I did wrong in the reporting itself.
2. more info on instructions vs. practice: I was under the impression that the noticeboard was about edit warring even if 3RR had not yet been violated. I wouldn't have filed if only 3RR+1 reports were accepted.
3. guidance on whether it's appropriate to keep the article at the state (at any state, really) while discussion is going on, per BRD. I thought I was on solid ground.

--Lexein (talk) 13:18, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

If there is truly a consensus to use 'https' in this infobox it will be apparent from studying the talk page. You can research that and give links to past discussions. Simply asserting there is a consensus does not settle the matter. In the (likely) event that the matter isn't clear, you can use the steps of WP:Dispute resolution. The other party was using some apparently specious arguments ("why would you take the recommendation of convicted criminals on links to their court-resolved illegal site") but it's up to the local editors to weigh those, not the admins. The second IP that you cited made only a single edit to the article and shouldn't have been named in an edit warring complaint. If either of you reverts again before the discussion goes anywhere it's risky. EdJohnston (talk) 14:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thanks for your patience. --Lexein (talk) 16:01, 8 January 2014 (UTC)