User talk:N328KF
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Every other nav template for aircraft (other than, apparently, the Russian ones) doesn't list nicknames. Imagine if, for example,
This category's last CfD just closed yesterday. Why the rush to delete it? This seems very inappropriate but perhaps I'm missing something. --A. B. (talk) 21:12, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
SR-71
Hi, I know you are not a vandal I just didn't notice that you had reverted some of that bizarre vandalism to the page. The page had also been vandalised further since your edit, so no harm done, and no hard feelings hopefully! Regards,Mumby 22:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Just asking
I don't understand why the < references > tag is being changed to {reflist}. Can you explain, and give me a link to how it works? Thanks. -
P-38
Give me a reason for the deletion- are you a vandal? There are "popular culture" references in many aircraft articles- these are well-researched and valid indications of the extent of popular interest in the P-38. To be considered "fancraft"= the submissions have to be "poorly written, unreferenced, unwikified, and non-neutral." Read the following: Fancruft is a term sometimes used in Wikipedia to imply that a selection of content is of importance only to a small population of enthusiastic fans of the subject in question. While "fancruft" is often a succinct and frank description of such accumulations, it also implies that the content is unimportant and the contributor's judgement of notability is lacking. Thus, use of this term may be regarded as pejorative, and when used in discussion about another editor's contributions, it can sometimes be regarded as uncivil and an assumption of bad faith. Bzuk 06:09 7 January (UTC).
- In all fairness, the additions by Bzuk were not the usual cruft and he appears to have actually taken the time to research some of this material. I'm on the fence about the encyclopedic significance of contemporary war movies -- perhaps some input from WP:Air or MilHist might be helpful? I am a bit concerned that once the section appears, it will act as a magnet for crap but I would be willing to wait and see at this point. - Emt147 Burninate! 07:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- Taking it upon yourself to deletion the section versus posting a topic on the talk page (via; P-38 or Bzuk's page) is pretty low. I think this reference contributes to the article, showing that it is an icon and has been featured in movies. To say that you are afraid that the section will become a "magnet for crap" is an asinine excuse for deletion. --Signaleer 18:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- Contrary to what you may think or lack of, don't think you're above anyone else on here. Store that in your memory banks, thanks. --Signaleer 19:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- Taking it upon yourself to deletion the section versus posting a topic on the talk page (via; P-38 or Bzuk's page) is pretty low. I think this reference contributes to the article, showing that it is an icon and has been featured in movies. To say that you are afraid that the section will become a "magnet for crap" is an asinine excuse for deletion. --Signaleer 18:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Cites
A cite in another article or at another website does no good to the article at hand. I tagged the statement and a reference was added, which is the whole purpose of the cite tags. No need to be so irritable about it (being irritable is my job). - Emt147 Burninate! 18:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
GE CJ610
Why did you go around Wikipedia policies and delete the text of my article on the CJ610? Though it is a derivative of the J85, there are enough differences, and wide enough usage to justify its own article. Please at least seek some consensus first. Akradecki 01:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- BTW...when merging the two articles, you didn't even bother bringing over the ref in the CJ610 which provided the info on the flight hours, and instead just put a cite needed tag...please read the material before doing that. Akradecki 01:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Joseph, I nommed this article for AfD, you might want to put your 2 cents in if you agree/disagree. Akradecki 20:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Fact tags
Thanks for restoring the fact tags on B-52. I hate complainers who remove them because they make the article look bad. - Emt147 Burninate! 23:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
If at all possible, please respond to my comments on the B-52 talk page. I am not trying to be a 'complainer', but a helpful editor. Donovan Ravenhull 18:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Ref lists
Since you're doing a lot of work with ref lists, maybe you can help me figure something out. Check out footnote 9 in the
Image:Fridtjof Nansen (F310) 650x446.jpg
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Input/opinion needed
Joseph, there's a guy who keeps tagging
- I offered suggestions on the talk page already. It does read like an advertisement, because, instead of discussing the jet in the article in a way that is usable for a reader unfamiliar with the jet, it gives specs. A list of spess is appropriate if someone is considering buying the plane, but that is not an appropriate thing to put on Wikipedia. If it's simply a list of specs, make the article a list of facts about the plane, lists are part of Wikipedia. But, please, don't call what you yourself admit is simply a listing of facts an article--it's not. If I wrote a botany article simply by listing facts about a plant, my text would be slapped with a need for clean-up tag and all sorts of tags, or other editors with expertise in the area would appropriately edit the article to make it readable. I can't write the article, although I did give suggestions, as I have no familiarity or expertise with the plane outside of flying in them as a passenger. Since I'm saying it reads like an advertising brochure thats a lists the specs, and you admit it IS a "straight-forward listing of facts" we're not actually disagreeing about that. However, you are saying that this is appropriate for an article. I am saying it is not.
- Here are some general guidelines that apply:
- WP:Explain jargon:
- Explain jargon when you use it (see jargon). Remember that the person reading your article might not be someone educated or versed in your field, and so might not understand the subject-specific terms from that field. Terms which may go without a definition in an academic paper or a textbook may require one in Wikipedia.
- The first time an article uses a term that may not be clearly understood by a reader not familiar with the subject area, such as the terminology of a science, art, philosophy, etc. or the jargon of a particular trade or profession, introduce it with a short, clear explanation that is accessible to the normal English reader or based on terms previously defined in the article. Beware inaccuracies accompanying short explanations of technical terms with precise meanings.
- "Powered by two Garrett TFE731-2 turbofan engines," "The turbofans are pod-mounted on the sides of the rear fuselage." "The aircraft has a retractable tricycle landing gear, single steerable nose gear and multiple-disc hydraulic brakes." Jargon, jargon, jargon, jargon, jargon.
- Wikipedia:Article development:
- [edit] Writing
- Start your article with a concise lead section or introduction defining the topic at hand and mentioning the most important points. The reader should be able to get a good overview by only reading the lead, which should be between one and four paragraphs long, depending on the length of the article. See Wikipedia:Lead section.
- Remember that, although you will be familiar with the subject you are writing about, readers of Wikipedia may not be, so it is important to establish the context of your article's subject early on. For instance, if you are writing an article about a sports event you should mention the sport and, if relevant, any national details: rather than
- The Red Cup was a domestic league competition that ran between 1994 and 1996
- it would be more helpful to write
- The Red Cup was a domestic rugby league competition in New Caledonia that ran between 1994 and 1996
- "The Learjet Model 35 and Model 36 are a series of multi-role business jets and military transport (designated by the U.S. Air Force as C-21)."
- This opening sentence is contextually an example of what not to write, it assumes that only readers familiar with Learjets, commuter aircraft, military aircraft and jets will be reading the article. That's not true, this is a general encyclopedia.
- Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles:
- Think of the reader
- Wikipedia is an international encyclopedia. The people who read it have different backgrounds, education and worldview from you. Try to make your article accessible to as many of them as possible. The reader is probably reading the article to learn. It's quite possible the reader knows nothing at all about the subject: the article needs to explain it to them.
- Again, lead paragraph sentences like this "Powered by two Garrett TFE731-2 turbofan engines, ..." don't consider the reader at all, at least not the Wikipedia reader, a person using a general encyclopedia.
- State the obvious
- State facts which may be obvious to you, but are not necessarily obvious to the reader. Usually, such a statement will be in the first sentence or two of the article. For example, consider this sentence:
- The Ford Thunderbird was conceived as a response to the Chevrolet Corvette and entered production for the 1955 model year.
- Here no mention is made of the Ford Thunderbird's fundamental nature: it is an automobile. It assumes that the reader already knows this—an assumption that may not be correct, especially if the reader is not familiar with Ford or Chevrolet. Perhaps instead:
- The Ford Thunderbird is a car manufactured in the USA by the Ford Motor Company.
- As I suggested, "The Learjet Model 35 and Model 36 are small jet aircrafts manufactured by Learjet of Wichita, Kansas in the 1980s."
- If other aircraft articles read like this, they should also be changed to conform to being usable by Wikipedia's general audience.
- Comments also posted on Learjet35/36 talk page.
KP Botany 21:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Bell
I think this guy has passed the 3RR, don't you? -
True, but which violation will get him blocked the fastest? Idon't think he's even reading the edit summaries. -
OK, issued 3RR and my version of a soapbox warning (couldn't find a template). -
Are
Thanks for the light tap on the shoulder. I get so sick of people who want to protect "Muslims" from us, but worry not a wit about protecting the rest of us from terrorists who happen to be muslim. For the record, my gripe is not with Muslims in general, but with those who do not speak out on behalf of what they claim is a peaceful religion being perverted by terrorists. Makes we wonder how peaceful their religion really is when they don't complain openly about its so-called perversion. -
Image:EMBRAER190 120304 13.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered,
Please use edit summaries
Hello. Please be courteous to other editors and use
- Edit summary usage for N328KF: 27% for major edits and 23% for minor edits. Based on the last 150 major and 150 minor edits in the article namespace.
Using edit summaries helps other editors quickly understand your edits, which is especially useful when you make changes to articles that are on others' watchlists. Thanks and happy editing! --Kralizec! (talk) 17:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
C-21A conflict
Joseph, I see a conflict in the quantity of aircraft listed in the article vs in the specs section. I've no idea which version is right, but the one in the article came from the footnoted source. It would well be wrong, but I thought I'd just point this out. I've no idea where the info in the specs section came from. And, BTW, sorry for the stomp fest! Akradecki 18:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
manufacturer name in infobox
Just to point out, after seeing the recent edit to Beechcraft Starship - there's already a field for manufacturer. Most aircraft have model numbers, and that's the general/preferred convention for the infobox. In many cases, the manufacturer bumps the title up to two or more lines and looks rather unprofessional. Keep that in mind please! ;) ericg ✈ 03:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Another job for the 3 Wikiteers
I've found myself doing another unappreciated pop-culture clean-up on the
Smiths Aerospace
Hi. Regarding where the figures came from, it was from a Hoovers corporate report about the company. I think the discrepancy is the fact that the GE figures include the whole Smiths Aerospace group figures, while the Hoovers numbers are about Smiths Aerospace Limited, the UK business excluding the American business. Anyway, I think your figures are the more accurate ones for the article - as it clearly refers to the entire division UK/US/ROW. Mark83 19:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
A380
Thanks. Of course he's right, it is uncited nonsense, even if it does concern the topic. -
Gulfstream
I just ran across a couple of Gulfstream aircraft articles today, the Grumman Gulfstream II and Gulfstream III) (which redircts to C-20 Gulfstream) in particular. Boy, what an absolute mess! It'll take a while to even make sense of what's there, and the fact that Gulfstream redesignated its new models won't make it any easier.
I'm going to post some ideas on the
Aircraft articles
Hi there. It wasn't my intention to start an edit war. I just wanted to improve the information about
Later! --Wesborland 23:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
WP:BITE
Hi. I noticed you used the abbreviation rvv in your edit summary here. It was likely just a typo as this was certainly not vandalism. Best wishes, --
- Thought so! --Guinnog 19:07, 20 January 2007 (UTC)]
TOPGUN article
"butchering?" I invite you to go through the additions including pertinent images and removal of a movie patch AND read the wiki etiquette guidelines:
Principles of Wikipedia etiquette Assume good faith. Wikipedia has worked remarkably well so far based on a policy of nearly complete freedom to edit. People come here to collaborate and write good articles. Treat others as you would have them treat you - even if they are new. We were all new once... Be polite, please! Keep in mind that raw text is ambiguous and often seems ruder than the same words coming from a person standing in front of you. Irony isn't always obvious - text comes without facial expressions, vocal inflection or body language. Be careful of the words you choose - what you intended might not be what others perceive, and what you read might not be what the author intended.
HJ 14:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough....I'll admit I'm still a novice concerning the subtle nuances of formatting. Just didn't think you needed to characterize other's attempts to improve content as "butchering"
Gulfstream III
For about a year! Never worked on Requested Moves before, but that one caught my eye. There seemed to be no objections so happy to help. Mark83 23:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XI - January 2007
The
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Thanks for making those edits. I mean well, but I'm not the most dedicated follower of
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- Orphaned fair use images are *not* allowed on Wikipedia, when my bot tagged this image it was orphaned. The bot did what it was designed to do and did not make a mistake. Talk 02:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)]
- That is irrelevant, the image was not being used and it was fair use this is grounds for deletion. Human patrolers only spend a few seconds looking at an image, my bot spends a lot less and doesn't have a brain. Do you really expect anybody bot or human to find out the life story of an image before we tag it when we are working on a backlog in the tens of thousands? The bot properly tagged an image, you saw that and used the image in an article. Problem solved, I don't see how this is "Wanton botspam" or how it makes it an "idiot bot". Talk 03:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)]
- That is irrelevant, the image was not being used and it was fair use this is grounds for deletion. Human patrolers only spend a few seconds looking at an image, my bot spends a lot less and doesn't have a brain. Do you really expect anybody bot or human to find out the life story of an image before we tag it when we are working on a backlog in the tens of thousands? The bot properly tagged an image, you saw that and used the image in an article. Problem solved, I don't see how this is "Wanton botspam" or how it makes it an "idiot bot".
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F.Church
I said see Talk, I meant see discussion. Cronos1 18:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Nice job
Nice job on your addition to the Church Committee, looking forward to working with you in the future. Best wishes, Travb (talk) 02:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
707 & 720
Hi Joseph, saw your revert to the renaming, thanks. The guy does make a point in his edit summary, though. Since 720 redirects here, would you object if a added a brief sentence or half a sentence to the lead paragraph mentioning the 720 so readers won't feel lost? I've seen that technique used elsewhere, since the lead is supposed to be a brief overview/summary of the subject. Akradecki 05:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Done. Feel free to tweak it. Akradecki 05:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Need help with a UAV aricle
I could use help with an issue with a UAV article. There's a new article that's been created on a UAV,
I agree with your moving
- Joseph, sorry about getting you involved in a stressful situation and then disappearing from the scene. I got called into work because our medivac helo broke, so I was up to my armpits in Bell 412 for a few hours. My abundant thanks to you and Chris for doing the brunt of the hard work with this issue. Akradecki 02:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Ramp view
Joseph, given your usersname, I thought you'd like to see the view that greeted me as I walked out onto the ramp to go to work this morning (the two are rarely parked next to each other)...Image:Scaled-proteus-wk-070205-05cr-12.jpg Akradecki 00:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
STTWbot
Thanks for informing, I will check manually the mentioned categories for the wrong tags. STTW (talk) 22:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
YC-14
Umm, what do you mean by "resequencing". And gr and other minor errors are not generally triggers of a rollback. I'm inclined to hit "rollback" myself unless you have some good complaints. (reply here, i'll see it). Maury 22:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure the only information I removed was information pertaining to the YC-15, which was mis-placed and misleading. Specifically, the article talks about under-wing blowing, which the YC-14 didn't use. This is the portion that you re-added! As to the Coalier, simply type "Antonov An-72 YC-14" into google. Nothing of high quality, but for a "speculated" it's good enough IMHO. Maury 23:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
BAE Systems Wikiproject Aircraft rating.
Hi. I wondered if you could give a second (well third) opinion on this. I rated it as "Top" importance, Trevor MacInnis has said "I'm more inclined to sugest mid at most. The aviation related part of the company is BAE Systems Regional Aircraft, and this page is more of a corporate company article, only tangentially related to aviation."
I disagree about the only avitation related part of the company being BAE Regional Aircraft, this totally ignores the BAe/BAE participation in the Tornado. It totally ignores the fact that without BAe's design and Marconi Electronic Systems' avionics (both now BAE) the Typhoon would not be the aircraft it is today. Also F-35 paricipation and UAV research are important topics.
What do you think? I've left a request for an assesment which has so far yielded no response. Many thanks. Mark83 22:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
- Can I butt in here? Trevor seems to have forgotten BAE Flight Systems, which has nothing to do with regional aircraft, but which builds the QF-4, and just finished the Lockheed CATBird. Akradecki 20:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)]
- I just wondered if you were willing to give a second opinion. I can respect if you don't value the assesment. It's not something I'm that interested in, I'm just pursuing this because, as you know, I have taken an interest in improving that particular article. Best regards, Mark83 21:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- Trevor MacInnis raised it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Aircraft/Assessment (no. 13). Thanks. Mark83 21:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)]
- Trevor MacInnis raised it at
707???
Thanks for catching my fat-fingeredness! GE90s on the seven oh...now that's something to ponder! Akradecki 20:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
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Unsourced edit contra Top Gun (film)
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CHICOTW - AT&T Corporate Center past editor
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Hiatus
Hi there :) Thanks for the note - it's nice to see some familiar usernames still here. Where have I been? Basically, WikiStress got the better of me and I needed to take a break. Anyway, it's very good to be back and I'm glad to be contributing again. --Rlandmann 06:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
TfD nomination of Template:Airreg
The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XV (May 2007)
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XVIII (August 2007)
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XIX (September 2007)
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XX (October 2007)
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVIII (June 2008)
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIX (July 2008)
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)
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CfD nomination of Category:Soviet and Russian intelligence agencies
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I see you have left WP. SandyGeorgia asks me to ask people about FAC nomination. Let me know. Chergles (talk) 18:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
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AfD nomination of White elephant
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Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Chzz ► 18:09, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
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An exciting opportunity to get involved!
As a member of the Aviation WikiProject or one of its subprojects, you may be interested in testing your skills in the Aviation Contest! I created this contest, not to pit editor against editor, but to promote article improvement and project participation and camraderie. Hopefully you will agree with its usefulness. Sign up here, read up on the rules here, and discuss the contest here. The first round of the contest may not start until September 1st-unless a large number of editors signup and are ready to compete immediately! Since this contest is just beginning, please give feedback here, or let me know what you think on my talkpage. - Trevor MacInnis contribs 03:25, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
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Fair use rationale for File:BoP Patch.jpg
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Speedy deletion nomination of File:America's Cup.jpg
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The article Lost wages has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
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Template:Boeing Year disambiguation has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. DePiep (talk) 15:58, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
The Bugle: Issue LVIII, December 2010
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Anybody but Bush, Except for Kerry listed at Redirects for discussion
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The Bugle: Volume LVIX, January 2011
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File source problem with File:USS Chandler (DDG-996).jpg
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The Bugle: Issue LXII, April 2011
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The article Boeing fuselage Section 41 has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
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Nomination of Boeing fuselage Section 41 for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Boeing fuselage Section 41 is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
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Military history coordinator election
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Category:Organ transplantation journals
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Nomination of List of Boeing customer codes for deletion
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The article PhyQuest Connexion has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
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Anybody but Bush, Except for Kerry listed at Redirects for discussion
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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
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Proposed deletion of List of Boeing 787 orders and deliveries
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Nomination of Integrated Defence Systems for deletion
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User group for Military Historians
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"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:29, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
Nomination of Toyota Winglet for deletion
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The file File:TOPGUN Controller patch.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
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Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open
Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Milhist coordinator election voting has commenced
G'day everyone, voting for the 2020 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2020. Thanks from the outgoing coord team, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:18, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
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"Ohare" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Nominations for the 2020 Military history WikiProject Newcomer and Historian of the Year awards now open
G'day all, the nominations for the 2020 Military history WikiProject newcomer and Historian of the Year are open, all editors are encouraged to nominate candidates for the awards before until 23:59 (GMT) on 15 December 2020, after which voting will occur for 14 days. There is not much time left to nominate worthy recipients, so get to it! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:45, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Voting for "Military Historian of the Year" and "Military history newcomer of the year" closing
G'day all, voting for the WikiProject Military history "Military Historian of the Year" and "Military history newcomer of the year" is about to close, so if you haven't already, click on the links and have your say before 23:59 (GMT) on 30 December! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC) for the coord team
Airreg nominated for deletion
Hello there, I have nominated Template:Airreg for deletion, as I think it's beyond help now. Please see the discussion at Templates for discussion. Regards. --Deeday-UK (talk) 11:16, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive
Hey y'all, the
Nomination of Religion of peace for deletion
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Religion of peace until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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౪ Santa ౪99° 22:24, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
The article NewCo has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Non-notable abbreviation, and the list of "Examples" seems to have no relevance whatsoever
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Nomination of List of Boeing customer codes for deletion
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Boeing customer codes (3rd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 02:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
The article Expert shopping has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
No references since 2009
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"Self loading freight" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect Self loading freight has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Self loading freight until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 04:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)