Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of rallies for the 2016 Donald Trump presidential campaign

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Based on my reading, it seems like there are a few arguments both pro and anti deletion. On the pro deletion side we have concerns that the list violates

WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE with unclear inclusion criteria ("what is a rally?") and a redundant fork of Timeline of the Donald Trump presidency (2019 Q1) and Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign
and not convered as a group by independent sources. In part because of the forking issue, some people are proposing mergers to the two Donald Trump articles, of varying selectivity. A similar list of Democratic rallies was deleted at AFD and is cited as a precedent by some participants.

On the keep side, we have the points that the lists are not unduly large and that there have been no problems with the inclusion criteria, that the list topic is in fact covered by independent sources (unlike the Democratic rallies article), that NOTNEWS does not apply as they are historical lists and also covered by academic sources and that they are useful. There is a secondary argument against merging that the merged content would be unduly long on the merge targets. There are 7 delete arguments (some alternatively advocate a merge) and 5 keep arguments, by headcount.

Overall it seems like for each delete or merge argument there is an equally compelling keep argument (useless vs. useful, academic topic vs. NOTNEWS, indiscriminate list with vague inclusion criteria vs. topic that has been discussed with examples in an overarching manner, content fork vs. valid spinout, can be covered on other articles vs. would become unduly large), as well as an argument that the Democratic list cited as a precedent had no overarching coverage and is thus different. 7 delete vs. 5 keep is likewise closer to an even split than to a delete consensus. Reywas92's points could be worth a follow up as they were not discussed in depth, but for the delete (or merge)-or-not question this seems like a no consensus case. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:05, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of rallies for the 2016 Donald Trump presidential campaign

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List of rallies for the 2016 Donald Trump presidential campaign (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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list events indiscriminately
and should also be nominated. They're better suited for a wiki that isn't an encyclopedia.

talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views
)
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

czar 00:51, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. czar 00:51, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. czar 00:51, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. czar 00:51, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete What is a rally? Exactly. The definition changes based on the person. The list is pretty useless anyway. Squeeps10 Talk to meMy edits 01:31, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep The lists are not unmanagebly large, and there has been no dispute on the pages about what is a rally. This pages are actually quite popular, and is thus of benefit to our readers. Although news may cover the content, NOTNEWS is inapplicable as they are historical lists. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep; while I don't want to delve into politics in this AfD discussion, the list is still useful. Seconding Graeme Barlett's point that
    WP:NOTNEWS cannot be applied. Utopes (talk) 04:58, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Delete/merge Timeline of the Donald Trump presidency (2019 Q1), etc. already mention rallies held during the presidency. It's an excessive crufty compendium of routinely expected events that is an unnecessary content fork of that and Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign. Reywas92Talk 05:02, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom and because no independent source considers them as a group. Election debates are much more significant than rallies, yet we don't have lists of those. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:30, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Cunard (talk) 09:34, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep both per the significant coverage in
    stand-alone list
    ." I will show below that "rallies for the 2016 Donald Trump presidential campaign" and "post-election Donald Trump rallies" have been treated as a "a group or set by independent reliable sources".

    Sources

    1. Morrison, Christopher N.; Ukert, Benjamin; Palumbo, Aimee; Dong, Beidi; Jacoby, Sara F.; Wiebe, Douglas J. (July 2018). "Assaults on Days of Campaign Rallies During the 2016 US Presidential Election".
      doi:10.1097/EDE.0000000000000821. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article notes about the study methodology:

      Rallies were defined as events that (i) occurred after Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton declared their candidacies on June 16, 20158 , and April 12, 20159 , (ii) occurred before the Presidential election on November 8, 2016, (iii) were open invitation, (iv) featured a speech by candidates Trump or Clinton, and (v) were not on the same day as a party primary election in the same state as the rally. We focused on cities that had populations greater than 200,000 based on United States Census Bureau estimates for 2015, because few smaller cities make assault data publicly available online.

      The study's conclusion was: "Assaults increased on days when cities hosted Donald Trump's rallies during the 2016 Presidential election campaign." The article has a table of Trump and Clinton rallies considered in the study. The Trump rallies considered were:
      1. Baton Rouge, LA: 2/11/2016
      2. Cincinnati, OH: 7/6/2016, 10/13/2016
      3. Colorado Springs, CO: 7/29/2016, 9/17/2016, 10/18/2016
      4. Columbus, OH: 11/23/2015, 3/1/2016, 8/1/2016
      5. Dallas, TX: 9/14/2015, 6/16/2016
      6. Denver, CO: 7/29/2016, 11/5/2016
      7. Fayetteville, NC: 8/9/2016
      8. Fort Worth, TX: 2/26/2016
      9. Kansas City, MO: 3/12/2016
      10. Las Vegas, NV: 10/30/2016
      11. Louisville, KY: 3/1/2016
      12. Mesa, AZ: 12/16/2015
      13. Milwaukee, WI: 4/4/2016
      14. Minneapolis, MN: 11/6/2016
      15. New Orleans, LA: 3/4/2016
      16. Pittsburgh, PA: 4/13/2016
      17. Raleigh, NC: 12/4/2015, 7/5/2016, 11/7/2016
      18. Richmond, VA: 6/10/2016
      19. Sacramento, CA: 6/1/2016
      20. Spokane, WA: 5/7/2016
      21. St. Louis, MO: 3/11/2016
      22. Virginia Beach, VA: 10/22/2016
      The journal article is the subject of a The New York Times article here
      .
    2. Sharp, John (August 2016). "20 Memorable Donald Trump campaign rally moments".
      AL.com. Archived from the original
      on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses memorable moments at these Trump rallies:

      1. Bluffton, South Carolina
      2. Mobile, Alabama
      3. Birmingham, Alabama
      4. Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
      5. Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina
      6. Reno, Nevada
      7. Pensacola, Florida
      8. Las Vegas, Nevada
      9. Fort Worth, Texas
      10. Huntsville, Alabama
      11. Orlando, Florida
      12. Fayetteville, North Carolina
      13. Dayton, Ohio
      14. Colorado Springs, Colorado
      15. Wilmington, North Carolina
      16. Sunrise, Florida
    3. Sullivan, Sean; Johnson, Jenna (2016-10-29). "Yes, Donald Trump's crowds are big — but not quite as 'yuge' as he often claims". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses Trump's promotion and frequent exaggeration of his campaign rallies' crowd sizes regarding these rallies:

      1. Springfield, Ohio
      2. Toledo, Ohio
      3. Phoenix, Arizona
      4. Melbourne, Florida
      5. Geneva, Ohio
      6. Tampa, Florida
      7. Tallahassee, Florida
      8. Sanford, Florida
      9. Charlotte, North Carolina
      10. Mobile, Alabama
      11. Madison, Alabama
    4. Mathis-Lilley, Ben (2016-03-02). "A Continually Growing List of Violent Incidents at Trump Events".
      Lexington Books
      .
    16 more sources
    1. Sommers-Dawes, Kate (2016-03-11). "All the times Trump has called for violence at his rallies". Mashable. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses the rallies at which Trump has called for violence:

      1. Kansas City, Missouri
      2. St. Louis, Missouri
      3. Fayetteville, North Carolina
      4. Michigan
      5. Las Vegas, Nevada
      6. Cedar Rapids, Iowa
      7. Birmingham, Alabama
    2. Schreckinger, Ben (2015-11-24). "Trump rallies get rough". Politico. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses violence at these Trump rallies:

      1. Virginia
      2. Miami, Florida
      3. Dallas, Texas
      4. Worcester, Massachusetts
      5. Alabama
    3. Finnegan, Michael; Bierman, Noah (2016-03-13). "Trump's endorsement of violence reaches new level: He may pay legal fees for assault suspect". Los Angeles Times. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses rallies at which Trump has supported violence:

      1. Bloomington, Illinois
      2. Fayetteville, North Carolina
      3. Cedar Rapids, Iowa
      4. Florida
      5. Las Vegas
      6. central Illinois
      7. Worcester, Ohio
    4. Jacobson, Louis; Tobias, Manuela (2017-07-05). "Has Donald Trump never 'promoted or encouraged violence,' as Sarah Huckabee Sanders said?". PolitiFact. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses rallies at which Trump has encouraged violence:

      1. Alabama
      2. Las Vegas
      3. Michigan
      4. North Carolina
      5. St Louis
      6. Kansas City, Missouri
    5. Schreckinger, Ben (2018-10-26). "Inside Trump's 2018 rallies: Cocky young men and few protesters". Politico. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses rallies at which there were cocky young men and few protesters:

      1. Houston, Texas
      2. Missoula, Arizona
      3. Mesa, Arizona
    6. Jackson, David (2016-11-04). "Trump tries to stay on message in the campaign's home stretch". USA Today. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses campaign rallies at which Trump is sticking to the script in the final days of the 2016 campaign:

      1. Atkinson, New Hampshire
      2. Hershey, Pennsylvania
      3. Pensacola, Florida
    7. Mackey, Robert (2016-03-11). "Trump Concerned His Rallies Are Not Violent Enough". The Intercept. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses Trump's encouragement of violence at these rallies:

      1. St. Louis, Missouri
      2. Fayetteville, North Carolina
      3. Oklahoma
      4. Las Vegas, Nevada
    8. Pearl, Mike (2016-03-16). "How Scared Should I Be of Donald Trump's Campaign Rallies?". Vice. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses violence at these Trump rallies:

      1. Miami, Florida
      2. Birmingham, Alabama
      3. Fayetteville, North Carolina
    9. Parker, Ashley (2016-03-10). "Riskiest Political Act of 2016? Protesting at Rallies for Donald Trump". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses protests and violence at these Trump rallies:

      1. Louisville, Kentucky
      2. Fayetteville, North Carolina
      3. Orlando, Florida
      4. Las Vegas, Nevada
      5. Concord, North Carolina
    10. Kragie, Andrew (2018-11-06). "Inside the Alternative Universe of the Trump Rallies". The Atlantic. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses The Atlantic journalists observations ("I can attest that Trump voters are not ready to concede a monopoly on outrage. They are stoked by Trump’s dystopian portrayal of a socialist America under radical far-left Democrats—a version of the country where jobs have been killed and Medicare destroyed to fund benefits for migrants pouring across open borders, where drug dealers and MS-13 killers take over sanctuary cities.") after traveling to or watching these rallies:

      1. Fort Myers, Florida
      2. Indianapolis
      3. Chattanooga
      4. Columbia, Missouri
      5. Huntington, West Virginia
      6. Belgrade, Montana
      7. Pensacola, Florida
      8. Macon, Georgia
      9. Cleveland
      10. Fort Wayne, Indiana
      11. Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    11. Lind, Dara (2016-03-13). "The problem with violence at Trump rallies starts with Trump himself". Vox. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses violence or Trump's encouragement of violence at these Trump rallies:

      1. Cedar Rapids
      2. Warren, Michigan
      3. Fayetteville, North Carolina
      4. Birmingham, Alabama
    12. Bump, Philip (2018-10-10). "Trump has embraced campaign rallies (but golf remains his true love)". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses the large number of Trump rallies held within the last four months of October 2018:

      1. Minnesota (twice)
      2. Mississippi
      3. Florida
      4. Pennsylvania (twice, including Wednesday evening)
      5. Tennessee
      6. Nevada
      7. Ohio
      8. West Virginia (twice)
      9. Kansas
      10. Iowa
      11. Montana (twice)
      12. South Carolina
      13. Indiana
      14. North Dakota
    13. Timmons, Heather; Yanofsky, David (2018-11-02). "Trump's frantic midterm MAGA rally schedule, mapped and explained". Quartz. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses the 2018 midterm Trump rallies:

      1. October 24: Mosinee, Wisconsin
      2. October 26: Charlotte, North Carolina
      3. October 27: Murphysboro, Illinois
      4. October 31: Fort Myers, Florida
      5. November 1: Columbia, Missouri
      6. November 2: Indianapolis, Indiana
      7. November 2: Huntington, West Virginia
      8. November 3: Belgrade, Montana
      9. November 3: Pensacola, Florida
      10. November 4: Chattanooga, Tennessee
      11. November 4: Macon, Georgia
      12. November 5: Cape Girardeau, Missouri
      13. Fort Wayne, Indiana
      14. Cleveland, Ohio
    14. Watson, Kathryn (2018-11-01). "What Trump's final rally schedule says about the midterms". CBS News. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses the 2018 midterm Trump rallies:

      1. Fort Meyers, Florida
      2. Columbia, Missouri
      3. Cape Girardeau, Missouri
      4. Florida
    15. "When, Where is the Next Donald Trump Rally? Trump MAGA Rallies Scheduled For Tennessee, West Virginia". Newsweek. 2018-09-25. Archived from the original on 2019-09-03. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses the 2018 midterm Trump rallies:

      1. Wheeling, West Virginia
      2. Johnson City, Tennessee
    16. Sebenius, Alyza; Pettypiece, Shannon (2018-10-29). "Trump to Skip House Races to Focus on Senate in Final Election Push". Bloomberg News. Archived from the original on 2019-05-10. Retrieved 2019-09-03.

      The article discusses the 2018 midterm Trump rallies:

      1. Fort Meyers, Florida
      2. Pensacola, Florida
      3. Indianapolis, Indiana
      4. Fort Wayne, Indiana
      5. Columbia, Missouri
      6. Cape Girardeau, Missouri
      7. Huntington, West Virginia
      8. Bozeman, Montana
      9. Chattanooga, Tennessee
      10. Macon, Georgia
      11. Cleveland, Ohio
    There is sufficient coverage in
    reliable sources to allow the subject to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 09:34, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply

    ]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
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