Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Armenia/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Good going, folks. It is a big task, but an ideal way to focus attention on Armenian related articles and subjects that are not yet well developed. --RaffiKojian 01:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm guessing you would like to be a participant, so I took the liberty of adding your name to the list.--Moosh88 02:08, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Please decide to "adopt an article", this basically means that you will be researching and adding the majority of the info to your adopted article.--Moosh88 02:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi! This is a great idea, will add templates. I will start working on an article on the Armenian kingdom of Gardaman-Parisos in a little bit. I gues this would be my article ...

Hetoum

I added you to the list of Participants, Hetoum. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me on my talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Moosh88 --Moosh88 04:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello. I have a suggestion four you. What about add to task table a string "Translation" and write there articles from other wikis to translate into english? For exemple, there are some quite a good articles about cities and rivers of Armenia in russian wiki such as ru:Иджеван, ru:Арпа (река), ru:Агарак... I know that some users of this project understand russian. I want to ask you if you are interested in this idea? --FHen^(ru) 18:26, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea. What you propose should be incorporated under To be created.--Eupator 19:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not shure if such incorporation is the best way. I suggest to translate also a articles, that have already been created, such as Ijevan (ru:Иджеван), Hrazdan (ru:Раздан (река)). May be it will be better to create a separate table like this--FHen^(ru) 19:45, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes you're right; however, we should only include articles that are signifcantly better or longer than their English counterparts (if one exists). For example Zvartnots should not be included.--Eupator 19:59, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I tryed to move this table to project page, but had a problem: links to iwikis are seen only on talk pages. --FHen^(ru) 16:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

prefix it with a colon like so: [[:ru:foobar]] ru:foobar

I've redone the alphabet table in Armenian_alphabet. An Armenian speaker should add in the IPA-values, as I meself don't speak a word Armenian. The German and Italian pages might help there (see interwikilinks on the Armenian alphabet page). ActiveSelective 06:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello,

I just wanted to let you know that Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting is being provisionally reactivated, and that you can find current deletion debates related to Armenia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Armenia. At this writing, there's only one debate listed; if you know of others, please feel free to add them. -- Visviva 10:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I can write about the argentino-armenian relations, i know we are so far from homelands, but the armenian spirit still remains!

I know I have some family in Argentina. We went anywhere we could find safety in after the Genocide. -- Augustgrahl 03:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

A guideline on whether or not to italicize Armenian (and all scripts other than Latin) is being debated at

Not according to Eupator and Clevlander, they teamed up to delete my name, I have made many positive contributions to this project and do not appreciate being deleted.--Caligvla 03:41, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, this deserves an explanation. -- Augustgrahl 03:52, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Caligvla's contributions have not been positive for Wikipedia. Instead, they have been offensive towards Armenians. -- Clevelander 11:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

True, his contributions to the Armenia article are questionable and his userpage emphatically states that he will never travel to Armenia. -- Augustgrahl 15:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Your motives are dubious when your userpage clearly states contempt for Armenia. It would seem that you are using Wikipedia to push a personal and potentially offensive agenda, which is contrary to the spirit of the encyclopedia. Your past edits have been disruptive, rather than constructive, to the aims of Wikiproject Armenia. -- Augustgrahl 14:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• • • Does that change the fact that "Participation in WikiProject Armenia is not limited to anyone"?

I mean no ill will, so please assume good intent, I am trying to help wiki reach academic standards.--Caligvla 07:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

So can I please be added back in? thanks...--Caligvla 05:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

No, you are not welcome here.--Eupator 12:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello. The

I was wondering if we should change the colors of the Armenian flag and CoA. See below for arguments. -- Clevelander 19:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The flag

The colors of the Armenian flag as presently featured on Wikipedia are directly reflected by those that appear on the Armenian government, Flags of the World, and Armenica websites. However, on the CIA World Factbook, Vector Images, and FIFA websites, the colors appear more faded. Vote change to change the flag to the CIA/Vector/FIFA colors or vote keep to keep the colors as they are.

• Keep -- Clevelander 19:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep--Eupator 19:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Change - The problem came up when I was trying to state what the HTML codes for the colors are, in the Flag of Armenia article. I noticed that in every site the colors look different. Let's take blue color, for example, Wikipedia's flag shows #0000AA, Gov't's flag shows #0000D6, FOTW shows #000099, CIA shows #3B5AA3. However, I remember people were saying in Armenia that the colors on the flag are the colors Martiros Saryan loved to use, which were faded. So the colors that CIA or FIFA uses look more Saryan-like than the one at Wikipedia. I really believe that the colors on this image look as close to Saryan's colors as possible.--Crzycheetah 19:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the flag at Armenian embassy in Washington DC. The blue and orange look like they are worn out, but they are the real colors of the Republic of Armenia.--Crzycheetah 22:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

• Keep -- Fedayee 20:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep -- Augustgrahl 20:16, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• No Preference at this Time It should be possible to find out if the nation assigned Universal Color Codes to the national colors. If so, then it's a simple, indiusputable matter to pick the correct color. Regardless, this is a de minimus issue. - Gregkar 19:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

The coat of arms

The Armenian coat of arms as presently featured on Wikipedia comes from Vector Images. This same version is used on Armenica's website. However, the coat of arms as featured on the Armenian government's website shows a slightly different color pattern with the red and blue parts of the shield switched. Vote change to change the CoA to reflect the version from the Armenian government's website or vote keep to keep the CoA as it stands.

• Change -- Clevelander 19:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep--Eupator 19:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Change - The Gov't website states The law "On the State Coat of Arms of the Republic of Armenia":

The colors of the kingdoms of the historical Armenia are as follows: from top to left - red, from top to right - blue, from bottom to left - blue, from bottom to right - red, with orange-painted Mount Ararat positioned in the center on a shield."

I think we need to have the right Coat of Arms, not the one that looks nicer.--Crzycheetah 20:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

• Keep -- Fedayee 20:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Change - and add a redesign to the todo list... --RaffiKojian 08:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
• No Preference at this Time - Gregkar 18:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I decided that it should be changed once and for all. I think this'll work better. -- Clevelander 18:57, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Greetings Ladies & Gentlemen! Is there a standard box of text we can attach to other pages linking back to Project Armenia? I mean something along the lines of what has been done in other project: "This article is part of the Wiki Project Armenia...." If not, should we create it?

Great job so far! Keep up the good work!

Gregkar 22:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

It already exists. See the talk pages of the articles. Did you miss this in the project page:Wikipedia:WikiProject Armenia#Project notice ?--Eupator 00:13, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I think we would benefit from reaching out to other branches of the academic and Armenian community instead of hoping they stumble upon us by accident and decide to contribute (like in my case). I propose reaching out to Armenians because they will be highly motivated, having a personal interest in the project. I suggest reaching out to the academic community so that we can benefit from a rigourous, academic level peer review of our work and to benefit from HIGHLY knowledgable contributors and scholars. Objectivity, credibility, and unimpeachability are important objective to attain. I have already spread a few bread crumbs around at the Myspace forums. Gregkar 19:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fishy. I would't have thought a thing, but MySpace?--Eupator 20:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Fishy? Outreach cannot hurt or am I missing the obvious? Why Myspace? Only because it happens to be a central location for English speaking people of Armenian descent. A good many of the people there are students at CSUN, UCLA, UCSB, UCSD, and UCR. I don't suggest that as the exclusive recruiting ground, only as one of potentially hundreds. Gregkar 21:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if Myspace is the best recruiting ground for potential motivated editors. -- Augustgrahl 20:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I concur. Read my reply to Eupator supra. Myspace is not necessarily the happy hunting ground for academics, but there are a good many Armenian-Americans students there. It doesn't have to be perfect. It only has to be progress. There are enough people already ensconced here who can do clean up and editorial work if we have a good crew of workers who can generate the raw work product in the first place. And finally, it couldn't hurt to do some soft advertisement of Armenian culture and our cause among non-Armenians. The more awareness there is, the more people will put a "human face" on the word "Armenian;" ergo, the greater the likelyhood that genocide recognition will reach political critical mass and start move as an agenda in the world community. But I digress. I don't wish to steer the conversation off topic. My main objective is to identify and recruit people who can flesh our the articles that need to be created for the project. Gregkar 21:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Gentlemen and ladies, yesterday I came across another article on the Armenian national

I disagree. I say that the

Armenian Stock Exchange articles should be created as separate (other countries have individual articles on their argiculture and their stock exchange - so why not Armenia?) -- Clevelander

23:13, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't proposing eliminating agriculture and the armex. I was proposing merging the two existing articles o nthe ECONOMY. The other articles can certainly be drafted and posted and linked up with the general article on the economy. I'll do more when i have more free time. Gregkar 21:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Could anybody do this? Luka Jačov 18:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Of what?--Eupator 15:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Well many or maybe all of the Armenian related articles have original Armenian name but without latin transliteration (Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic). Luka Jačov 17:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I added translit. for ASSR, anything else in mind? Maybe you can compile a list and it to the project?--Eupator 18:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

A poll: should we change Image:Flag of Armenian SSR.svg and Image:COA Armenian SSR.png to Image:SovietArmenian flag.jpg and Image:Armenian COA.jpg respectively? Vote change to change the flag and CoA or vote keep to keep things as they are.

• Keep -- Clevelander 19:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete and replace them with the ones I uploaded directly from the SA Encyclopedia. Things like this are the least of my concerns but the SVG flag's colors are inaccurate and cartoonish. They are akin to having the American flag with red, white, and green colors. Moreover, the COA's colors display the real colors of grapes that we all hopefully eat - the green and not the yellow kind. The ones from the encyclopedia have a more authentic feel to them. Perhaps this "consistency" that they be svg format be reconsidered but we shouldn't forgo realism here.--MarshallBagramyan 19:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Are we both looking at the same flag? The SA Encyclopedia version looks just like the SVG version (of course, the scanned flag looks a bit darker and grainy - but that's expected from a scan). The consistency of using SVG flags is something that Wikipedia has been long-striving to achieve (almost all flags on Wikipedia are now in SVG format and if not PNG format). I really don't see how SVG flags "forge realism." The grapes on the coat of arms from the SA Encyclopedia are shown in the same color as the grain and the hammer and sickle are (that is they're all supposed to be gold). This is accurately represented on the PNG CoA which is currently in use. -- Clevelander 00:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The "darkness" of the uploaded flag is not a byproduct of a poor quality scanning;it is the true color of the Soviet Armenian flag - Communism heavily emphasized the color red and all but it wasn't such a bright red like the SVG file but a mixture of red and more pronounced, orange hue. I'm willing to let all this subside but I can easily change the formats to .png extensions but its one thing whenever the official encyclopedia shows something different to what's being used here.--MarshallBagramyan 05:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's the tone of the current Armenian SSR flag that's the issue, then that can be changed. In fact, I'd be more than happy to fix the color myself later today (I'll admit, the red is a bit bright). Kindest regards, Clevelander 09:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - Darkening the current flag's colors is necessary. The coat of arms has to be changed. The one we currently have was used from 1940-1966, the one MarshallBagramyan uploaded was used from 1966-1991.Source in Russian--Crzycheetah 08:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey guys, I thought these couple articles I wrote long time ago might interest you; Avzrog and Dehi. It would be nice if any of you living in Armenia could visit Verin Dvin, Arzni or Dmitrov in the Ararat district and try to write an article about the Assyrian population their (with pictures of course ;) ) Chaldean 08:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I have created the

Can someone fix the "Cities and towns in Armenia" (box). This is the box that is under all the cities of Armenia. On the box for the town of "Verdi" when I click on it it redirects me to somewhere else and when I click on the "Masis" city it redirects me to Mount. Ararat, but not the city of Masis. One more thing on the box of "Cities and towns in Armenia" "Martuni is under Armenian cities, but it is part of Nagorno-Karabakh district, It should be takne out. I tried to fix it, but I didn't know how. Thanks. ROOB323 23:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. -- Clevelander 00:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ROOB323 00:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

The

They seem to be the same thing but odds are Norshirakan has different borders and a different history, I mean what's the history of that name? Where did it come from? There must be some sort of a difference between Parskahayq and Norshirakan. My guess is that Norshirakan is the name of the territory of Parskahayq after the demise of Greater Amenia in 428?--Eupator 02:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Folks - please keep this on your watchlist. A Turk is removing the Armeniapedia link repeatedly, and says it is "unreliable" on my talk page. Thanks and Happy New Year! :-) --RaffiKojian 17:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure if this would work, but I managed to export the EPS image hosted by the Armenia Government into an SVG file for Wikipedia. Image:Coat of Arms of Armenia.svg is my result. Do you want the colors from the arms image, in SVG, to be used in the SVG flag for Armenia? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 10:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I created the flag image using the colors, but holding off on the upload until yall ok it. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 11:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The CoA image is now on Wikipedia, but I had earlier issues with rendering because of the software used to convert the image from EPS to SVG, Adobe Illustrator. I fixed it using Inkscape and I wish for comments about this. Thank you. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you guys try to put this in the front page under the "in the news" while the story is hot? Chaldean 18:58, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Guys, please keep an eye on the "Criticism" subsection of this page to avoid injustice and vandalism. Thanks --Armatura 14:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I have borrowed elements of WikiProject Greece and WikiProject Turkey to create Wikipedia:WikiProject Armenia/Assessment. The purpose of this new feature is to increase the efficiency of WikiProject Armenia by using the article rating system. -- Aivazovsky 00:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I have created a template {{

• Turkish-Armenian War
• Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline
• Accession of Turkey to the European Union
• Human rights in Turkey
• Southeastern Anatolia Project
• Foreign relations of the Republic of Turkey
• Ilisu Dam Campaign
• Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia
• Treaty of Sevres
• Caucasus Campaign
• First Republic of Armenia

[[1]]

Meanwhile, it was the father of the present Azeri president, Haydar Aliyev, who first said that “Karabakh is lost for us.” On July 22, 2002, while receiving the founders of the Baku Press-Club in his palace, Aliyev made a number of avowals. The full text of Aliyev’s interview was published by Zerkalo daily on July 23, 2002. In particular, Aliyev said that as the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the USSR “he did much to help Nagorno Karabakh to develop, but, at the same time, he tried to change the local demography.” “Nagorno Karabakh asked for an institute. I decided to open one, but on condition that it would have three sectors – Azeri, Russian and Armenia. We opened the institute and began sending Azeris from nearby districts there rather than to Baku. We also opened a big shoe factory. Stepanakert had no sufficient labor force, so we began sending there Azeris from places around the region. By doing this I tried to increase the number of Azeris and to reduce the number of Armenians,” Aliyev said. He also noted that “when I left Azerbaijan, the situation there got worse – Armenia’s influence grew bigger, and our authorities did nothing and missed the moment.” “When in Feb 1991 I was elected deputy from Naxcivan and came to Baku and said in the parliament that Nagorno Karabakh was already lost,” Haydar Aliyev said. Returning to our topic, let’s try to describe the consequences the war in Iran may have for Armenia. The armed crisis in Iran, the preventive strikes on or the military invasion of the US and the “accomplice-countries” in that country and the possible consequences this may have for Armenia are a question that can knock out any Armenian politician. They in Armenia have no answer to this question – they just well realize how serious this threat is. The possibility of a US-Azeri or any other conspiracy over the Karabakh-Iranian problem as a whole is an even bigger trap for the Armenians. We can hardly imagine them to rule out this possibility at all. The region is too small, and there is just one step from Iran (and, most importantly, from its regions where the ethnic Azeri majority is several times bigger than the whole population of Armenia) to Karabakh. Yes, it’s not calm in Armenia, and not only because of the daily shuttle visits of US politicians and diplomats. In fact, any destabilization will reveal the real balance of forces in the region and will blow up the whole foreign political doctrine of Armenia. The country will have to instantly choose which camp to join. The situation is going beyond short-term predictability, which means the end of the epoch of complimentarity – a wait-and-see policy, a policy of balance between the interests of macro-players.

Yerevan seems to have already taken the first steps in this direction… not without Moscow. In the chronology we give in the preamble shows that after the usual OSCE MG format broke up and the Russian co-chair went into the shadow, it was only the Armenian FM that visited Moscow. But this was overshadowed by an unprecedented meeting of the Russian ambassadors to Georgia, Azerbaijan and Turkey and Russian Deputy FM Grigory Karasin in Yerevan. Even in calmer times such a meeting would look intriguing. The N1 topic before and after the military exercises in Nagorno Karabakh was the Armenian-Russian military cooperation. Apr 19 the chief of the general staff of Armenia’s armed forces Mikayel Haroutyunyan said that “Armenia and Russia should conduct joint exercises more frequently and should involve the Karabakh armed forces therein.” In the meantime, Armenian Defense Serzh Sargsyan said in an interview to Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper that Armenia would welcome the training of Russian military students in highland conditions.

Is a local war in Karabakh possible? It is — as war is still regarded as one of the possible ways to resolve the dragging conflict. But who will it benefit? The benefits are many, but they depend on what the beneficiaries want. Let’s consider some of the possible scenarios: The US involves Azerbaijan in a local war with Armenia and deploys its military bases in the Azeri territory to protect its oil-gas interests and, at the same time, pressures on Iran from the north. This scenario fits well into the US’ strategic plan of Iran’s military-political encirclement.

I am from the Azari Wiki Project and both a Iranian and Azari. I know I am an ethnic Iranian and not a Turkic as fake party line in Baku cliams. The Baku government has even killed Azari scholars who have taught that Azaris are really ethnically non-Turkic. We are reallly an Iranian people related to the Armenians and I hope their is peace for everyone in the region. 72.57.230.179

Fellow Armenians, there is an anonymous vandal who keeps removing a part of

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061001&articleId=3361

I often find transcriptions instead of correct English transliterations of Armenian words in headlines. Please keep an eye on this.

Examples:

• Sarkisian instead of Sargsyan (this is the transcription), Sarkisyan etc.
• Hakobian instead Hakobyan, Akopian etc.
• Vahanian instead of Vahanyan, Vaganyan, Vaganian etc.
• Russian patronymics (see f.e.
  Vagarshak Arutyunovich Ter-Vaganyan
  ) for citizens of the Armenian SSR.

A reader who does not know Armenian is just misinformed when seeing “Sargsyan” as a headline. This does not reflect the English pronuciation. Thank you.

I'm interested to know what was the pre-Christian religion of the Armenians! Please send any links talking about that to me on my

Hi! Why haven't you written his name in Armenian yet? Alaexis 21:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

done--Armatura 17:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I would like to request that WPAM template support the

Done, lets just hope its right. Artaxiad 18:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!!! I used it in

Talk:Vakıflı. A great improvement. I still find it a tad large, but at this point this is just personal pref. The map could be a tad smaller and some of the explanations could be more brief for the small version perhaps? --Free smyrnan

21:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Not to sure how to do that. Artaxiad 10:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

We should get the Importance thing to, looks nice, and it will shorten some space. Artaxiad 16:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thought this might interest you guys. Chaldean 19:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice find, thanks Chaldean. lol their emblem looks like the Homenetmen emblem - Fedayee 19:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Friends, the page about famous Armenian-French actor

I have substantially re-written the Early Life section, from Hrant Dink's birth until the start of his career at Agos. I would really appreciate editors looking it over. I have tried to get all the facts in. The language is somewhat rough still. Wikification etc, is quite weak. --Free smyrnan 22:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi All,

I am trying to rewrite the Van Resistance article. I intend to use Christopher Walkers survival as the main reference, and start writing a temp article, asking the admins to delete the current one. Aside from the obvious poor grammar and formatting, this article goes on about some "Administration of Western Armenia" nothing to do with the self defense of 1915. It is only appropriate the article solely deal with this. What do you guys think? Feedback? Suggestions? (Hetoum 19:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC))

I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at

Mentioning Tankian's ethnicity in the top of the article was considered "agenda" by on of the users (Tom). If you have any remarks on this issue, please make them here. ... or better bring with you some administrator to resolve the dispute, cause it's no longer a civil discussion. Thanks.Armatura 16:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Թոմը դրսևորում է հակահայկական և հակահրեական տրամադրություններ, imho պետք է նրա վարքը դնել քննարկման ադմիիստրատորների բորդում: Եթե ինչ որ մեկը գիտե թե դա ինչպես է արվում, ապա plz, do it.Armatura 18:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Plz review and revert (if needed) the last eitions by 165.196.104.56 Armatura 20:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

It is recommended that Category:WikiProject Armenia Wikipedians be renamed to either Category:WikiProject Armenia participants or Category:WikiProject Armenia members according to convention. It is left up to the project participants/members to choose which they would like. Please hold a discussion here and when there is consensus make the change. Thank you. --NThurston 14:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm more of a participant then a member. Vartanm 17:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

                                           Levon ****yan

Hye, you may want to check out this article first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_music --Hetoum I 20:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I started this stub article as part of the work at

Do we create articles based on Armenian relations with specific Arab countries (e.g. Armenian-Lebanese relations) or do we create an article based on Armenian relations with the entire Arab world (Armenian-Arab world relations) and sectionize the specific countries? Or do we create both kinds of articles...- Fedayee 00:46, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

There are some Arab countries that Armenia has no relations at all, and there are some like Lebanon for example that Armenia has good relations with. So I guess creating both kinds of articles would be optimal. The countries that have good or bad relations with Armenia would get their own articles and the rest of them would go on the Armenia-Arab world article. An article about Armenia and European Union was created recently by Aivazovsky but Armenia-France article was created by Davo88 last year. I say lets have both, I'm sure we would get help from other wikiprojects. VartanM 03:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, sounds good! - Fedayee 01:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah that's a good idea... The two most important ones are Lebanon and Syria not only because of the Armenian genocide, but also because Armenians have been there for a very long time. But a lot of the Arab states of today are artificial creations (Iraq for example) so you can't talk a lot about them. btw when talking about Iraq there should be a part about the Armenian peacekeepers. -- Davo88 02:40, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Also lets not forget the Armenian church bombing in Baghdad [2] --VartanM 04:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I created and added an Armenian Userbox to this list: EU-based_Userboxes--Waterfall999 12:47, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I would like to ask for any help in tracking down sources documenting the identification of the Armenian mythical figure Hayk with the Greek mythical figure Orion per the interpretatio graeca.

The more scholarly sources on the subject seem to point most directly to the Old Armenian Bible's translation of "Orion" for the constellation, and give the similarity between the god Orion and the god Hayk as the reason for this translation. There is a suggestion that this reflects a broader identification, but little detail on this point. See this site and also pg. 32 of Hackiyan's The Heritage of Armenian Literature (available in limited preview on Google Books): By virtue of his being a valiant prince of fine stature "strong and accurate in drawing the bow," and "a skillful archer," Hayak became a couunterpart of the Greek Orion, perhaps because, like Orion, Hayk has fine features and was a night hunter. No ancient records documenting Hayk's apotheosis into a constellation survive, but in two instances in the Greek Bible that mention Orion, the fifth-century Armenian translators have replaced Orion with Hayk.

What I would really like are pointers to ancient or medieval sources that directly compare the gods Hayk and Orion (as opposed to just the constellations), and cited in scholarly or at least respected publications (not random stuff on the internet). Thanks very much for your help.--Pharos 02:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Can someone help render Misht Badrast (Be Prepared), the Scout Motto, into Armenian script? Thanks! Chris 04:03, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking about creating a new category to cover the burials at Yerablur military cemetery. Currently we have

Sounds good to me, Vartan. We can down the line create the articles of other people buried there as you mentioned. - Fedayee 04:39, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I support this idea! We can also add Sose Mayrig.Andranikpasha 11:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I have nominated a photo of a khachkar I just uploaded. You can follow the nomination at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Khachkar --RaffiKojian 10:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I have reformatted

Whats really going on is you are removing our historical info from the "History of Armenia template" that was there from the first day the Template was created. That is whats really going on. So who is the vandal, its dab. There should be no reason to remove Nairi and Hayk. Also, "History of Georgia" template, for example, has all of their earlier history just as we had, but ours gets removed??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.122.96.243 (talk • contribs)

you are the vandal. If you had the slightest grasp of manners and Wikipedia policies, you could actively improve articles. Instead, you force us to lock articles down, to the disadvantage of our coverage of Armenian history. If you cannot understand that what you do actually damages the reputation of Armenians, I cannot help you.

dab (𒁳)

13:46, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

What I'd like would be a collapsible history navigation box for Armenian history (and for Byzantine history, Seljuk history and Ottoman history) that could sit neatly at the right of the text and give the casual reader an easy way to broaden his/her reading. And I'd like to specify that it is initially collapsed. Is it too much to ask? Is it already available? It certainly might defuse the flaming edit wars over some of these pages. Rupert Clayton 16:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The template for Armenian history is only intended to be placed on articles that are included in the template. Lake Van is a lake, not a state, culture or dynasty so it doesn't need that template.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 16:10, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Also the edit warring was a result of one vandal, it was not a content dispute just blatant vandalism.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 16:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm fine without the Armenian history navigator in geographic articles. It's certainly better than taking up the whole right-hand side of the screen. Is there a more general policy that restricts the inclusion of other similar history templates?Rupert Clayton 18:10, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't think so. It's common sense really. -- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 19:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

collapsible navigation boxes are spreading on Wikipedia like cancer. Whatever happened to writing an actual paragraph in prose, with relevant terms wikilinked so that interested readers can click on them? The ratio of tempate designers to encyclopedic authors is apparently out of balance. No wonder: it is much easier to collect existing articles into a snappy template than to get down to producing content. I fully agree with Eupator: templates have their uses, but they need to be used judiciously. A link being included to a template may be less controversial than including the template on the article linked, so I would not advise a policy of automatically slapping the template on every article it links to. this template topic is a wider debate without special relevance to Armenia, and there is of course much room for bona fide disagreement. What we are dealing with here is just a single vandal. We'll need to keep the articles semiprotected for as long as necessary, perhaps indefinitely, but that isn't really all that bad, since everyone can still (a) suggest corrections on talk and (b) create an account and do 50 edits or so on other topics first. Semiprotection is an excellent tool to get rid of IP hopping vandals without putting a significant barrier in the way of bona fide editors.

Hello, I wanted to let this project know about the existence of this (relatively) new article. It was created by a college student as part of his course work and has been sitting off in a corner, unlinked and uncategorized. I created one or two links to it and put it in a couple of categories, but I think there are probably others here who can help it along better than I can. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 04:56, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering if people could start adding to the [[Category:Notable Armenian genocide victims]]. Thank you. Chaldean (talk) 23:22, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

This page is too long in comparison with other wikiproject pages. I want to shorten it and only include the most important information. MosMusy (talk)

Discussion at

• "Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability."

Ethnicity has been added to lead sections without demonstration of relevance, indicating either a pro-Armenian agenda or an unfamiliarity with policy and pracice. Worse yet, ethnicity has been removed from articles entirely, not simply moved from the lead to the body of the article, indicating an anti-Armenian agenda. Either way the quality of articles covering topics related to Armenia need improvement. Hyacinth (talk) 01:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Mention of Armenian ancestry of diaspora Armenians (for individuals born outside Armenia) in the first sentence or paragraph, I believe, would hinge on the importance of that heritage to that individuals. For Alan Hovhaness, it's central to his life's work, whereas for Eric Bogosian it's not. For Atom Egoyan, it's somewhere in between. This should be evaluated by editors on a case-by-case basis, not on an "enforcer" basis as has been going on with the blanket removals (and refusal by such "enforcers" to consider discussion from editors skilled in the respective fields of those articles). Badagnani (talk) 01:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what ethnicity we are talking about, the guideline applies... in general. The quote above is not a policy, which would be binding, but a simply a guideline - there are always reasons for exceptions! A guideline is not written in stone, so it is up to the, hopefully good, judgement of the individual editor. I think you will always have people inserting it for their own reasons and other people deleting for being "against the rules". A problem like this can only be dealt with on a case-to-case basis, i.e. discussion with the revising editor and, if that doesn't work, arbitration. TINYMARK 08:12, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I generally add the script if the person is notable to be an Armenian, and not just Armenian. For example

Nataline Sarkisyan. On the other hand Michael Vartan is notable but not for having Armenian roots. Having Armenian script on his article would clearly be inappropriate and POV. What I'm trying to say is that the script should be used if the person him/her self is open about his/her Armenian ethnicity. VartanM (talk

) 00:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem with removal of the nationality from the lead. I do have a problem with completely removing it. VartanM (talk) 00:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Armenian script

The addition of Armenian script appears to be a seperate issue. Hyacinth (talk) 00:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Third and forth generation Armenians who have lost all ties with Armenia and Armenian nationality and all that it remains is the last name, usually don't warrant having the Armenain script. VartanM (talk) 00:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

The article Justin McCarthy (American historian) is in a situation of more-or-less OR and POV. I have tagged it, but I do not know anything about him in particular, and very little about Armenian and Turkish history. So maybe somebody more knowledgeable about it might want to have a look. Happy editing, Goochelaar (talk) 23:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

There are two articles here in which Justin A. McCarthy is used as a source for information. He doesn't seem like a reliable or unbiased source to me. My arguement is that someone who denies something as undisputable as the Armenian Genocide is no longer reliable. Maybe someone here with more knowlege about him can argue that his writings aren't suitable to be used as sole sources for controversial information.

These are the articles I have seen him references to:

Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878)

Here are a set of reliable and reputable sources:

Armenia Liberty (Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty) -- now much of the Armenian people's chosen news source

A1+

More sources

Aravot (opposition)

[3] (opposition)

Good day! Serouj (talk) 06:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Postage stamps and postal history of Armenia has been improved recently but could do with some more, actually lots more, sourced detail. Does anyone have sources that I, or others, can use to add further information to make it more comprehensive? TIA ww2censor (talk) 04:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is pretty weak - I see lots of errors. But I don't have sources which I can cite, I have only knowledge. Meowy 20:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Friends, someone (notebly the user with nickname Vanbok, either logged or anonimously) is constantly removing the words and sentences concerning the Armenian origin of Roustam Raza, changing it with Georgian ones. Meanwhile, the Armenian origin of Rustam is well proved/referenced in the article. So please add this page on your watchlist and watch for vandalism. Thanks Armatura (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 07:55, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I have nominated several of this project's maintenance categories for renaming (a minor change). The discussion is located here and comments are welcome. –Black Falcon ^(Talk) 03:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Within

This list has been vandalized so often in the past (usually by IPs in Georgia) that it's now impossible to tell what is real and what isn't. I took the liberty to cut everything that wasn't wiki-linked out. Rather drastic, I know, but the only way I can make sure the people on the list actually exist. See [4] for my explanation and a link to a steady, absolutely clean version.  Channel ®   22:20, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Hullo, cross-posting from

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please

If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:26, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

If anyone is interested in stub-sorting as well as Armenia, there are several new provincial sub-categories under

Looks like a copy-paste (with original author's C.V.), POV, prose, unwikified etc. Any hopes for an encyclopedic rewrite, esp. the Armenian side?

There doesn't seem to be any standard on Wikipedia for how to translate Քաղաքներ and Գյուղեր. We translate Քաղաքներ as either "city" or "town", while we translate Գյուղեր as either "town" or "village". Obviously, this is a source of confusion, since the English word "town" is being used with 2 separate meanings. We need to come up with a standard convention and stick to it. The Armenian censuses use Քաղաքներ=town and Գյուղեր=village. I could imagine someone arguing, however, that the more natural English translations would be Քաղաքներ=city and Գյուղեր=town. What are people's preferences between the two conventions? Kaldari (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• Could you please transliterate these two words for the masses who do not read Armenian? Thank you. It would be helpful to have some context for your highly relevant suggestion: what is the usage in the printed media? can we look at a short list of some actual places in each category, showing their location and population (from statistical yearbooks)? And finally, could you elaborate why someone would argue for "city/town" instead of "town/village"? What word would then serve for "village"? --Zlerman (talk) 02:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Քաղաքներ = kaghakner, Գյուղեր = gyugher. Both are plural, singular would be քաղաք = kaghak and գյուղ = gyugh. I've added a third option (city/village). Markussep ^Talk 15:46, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
    • There are currently about 871 gyugher/Գյուղեր in Armenia and about 46 kaghakner/Քաղաքներ if that gives you an idea of the demographics. Kaldari (talk) 18:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
    • I did a cursory survey and found that kaghakner range in population from over 100,000 to less than 1,000, with the average being about 10,000. Gyugher range in population from about 8,000 to 0, with the average being about 500. Hope that helps. Kaldari (talk) 20:38, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I changed the following sentence in the Armenia article:
"The republic has 953 villages, 48 cities and 932 communities, from which 871 are rural and 61 urban."
to:
"The republic has 918 municipalities, of which 48 are towns (kaghakner, sing. kaghak) and 870 are villages (gyugher, sing. gyugh)."
Hope that sounds right to everyone. Kaldari (talk) 19:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

kaghak/Քաղաք=town and gyugh/Գյուղ=village (and large kaghak=city)

1. Support - I think we should stick with the convention used by the Armenian census as this is the most official English-language source. Kaldari (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
2. Support: based on dictionary definitions of village, town, city combined with the usage in statistical yearbooks of Armenia (specifically see 2007 Yearbook, Table 18, p. 36). So, use "village" for a rural settlement, "town" as a generic term for any urban settlement, and reserve "city" for designating a specific large town (such as Yerevan, Gyumri, Vanadzor, etc.). --Zlerman (talk) 02:31, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

   Well this is what I don't undestand, based on the following convention are we going to call Gyumri or Vanadzor cities or towns? Because in the Armenian language there is no distinction between city and town that I know of but calling Gyumri a town is just funny.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 03:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

   • I am sorry if I have not made myself clear enough. When writing about Gyumri on its own, call it city, not town. When dealing with Gyumri as part of the set of urban/rural statistics and classifications (i.e., generically), include it in the group "towns" and do not show the group "cities" separately. An example from Soviet-era statistics: the 1987 yearbook (and others) contains a separate table that lists the population in "large towns" (what we would normally call cities in English), which at that time were Yerevan, Leninakan (Gyumri), and Kirovakan (Vanadzor). Then come tables that split the population into "towns" and "villages", where Yerevan, Gyumri, and Vanadzor are included in "towns". I gather from Kaldari's introductory statements that this is also basically the practice in the population census (which I have not seen). --Zlerman (talk) 03:58, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
   • I have just read the debate on this issue on Kaldari's talk page, and I am afraid that my thinking goes in a direction that is totally different from the debate. In my suggestions for "town/village" I am talking in categories, generically. I am not referring to whether a specific settlement should be called a town or a village. This has to be decided from substantive considerations in each individual case (taking location and population into consideration). I know that a "large" town should be called a city, but there is no universal formula for distinguishing between a town and a village. If the population census, or any other statistical database, contains a list of all Armenian settlements classified into "kaghak" and "gyugh", then from considerations of consistency we should follow this classification and call "kaghak" town and "gyugh" village. There should be a separate (agreed) list of "large" towns that can be called cities on an individual basis. --Zlerman (talk) 04:25, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

   • I definitely like this suggestion and have added "large kaghak=city" to the header. Certainly kaghakner with populations near 100,000 or more should be called cities in their respective articles. However, where we are listing them by category they should still listed as "towns" as this is their official designation. This also avoids the problem of calling kaghakner with populations of less than 1,000 "cities" as that seems just as awkward as calling kaghakner with populations around 100,000 "towns". Kaldari (talk) 16:04, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

3. Support Sounds good to me.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 16:55, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
4. Support - Fedayee (talk) 20:53, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
5. Support with suggestion: Define "city" as a "town" over 100,000. So Vanadzor (de jure pop), Gyumri, and Yerevan are the only cities in Armenia. And this is quite accurate with notions of cities in the West. (For example, Aparan is not a city. Just look at the skyline!) Also, in Armenian, a town is գիւղաքաղաք (gyughakaghak: something between a village and a city. This doesn't seem to have been in use in Soviet Armenia, but is a word used often in Western Armenian. Serouj (talk) 06:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

kaghak/Քաղաք=city and gyugh/Գյուղ=town

1. Oppose: this classification misses the entire category "village", which in English is distinct from "town". --Zlerman (talk) 02:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

kaghak/Քաղաք=city and gyugh/Գյուղ=village

1. Support Only because this is what sounds right to me personally. Keep in mind that British English is used in Armenia as elsewhere in Europe whenever official documents are translated to English.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 18:28, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
2. Oppose: see argument under town–village above. --Zlerman (talk) 02:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I've requested moving 7 articles about places in Armenia, because the names weren't transliterated according to the

And strangely, the Armenian Wiki only lists 862 villages. Kaldari (talk) 23:31, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

• Suggest you take 2001 Population Census as the definitive source for the number of villages in all relevant pages in Wikipedia and cite the alternative numbers in parentheses (sourcing them if possible). And perhaps also count the number of villages in
  List of municipalities in Armenia. Could that list (and the towns in the table) be somehow numbered for easier viewing? --Zlerman (talk
  ) 02:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

• Dzoragyukh (not to be confused with Dzoraglukh
  )
• Karin
• Khnusik
• Lusaghbyur
• Mughni
• Nigatun (may not exist anymore according to article)

Unfortunately, I can't add them to the

The only village missing from Ararat province is Kakavaberd. Kaldari (talk) 22:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The only village missing from Armavir province is Tairov. Kaldari (talk) 22:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

• I figured out which raion Tairov belongs to and added it. Kaldari (talk) 22:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The villages missing from Gegharkunik are:

• Aghyokhush
• Barepat
• Gagarin
• Jivikhlu
• Lernahovit
• Yanegh

Kaldari (talk) 23:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The villages missing from Kotayk are:

• Korchlu
• Punik

Kaldari (talk) 23:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The villages missing from Lori are:

• Akhtala (village) (not to be confused with the town of Akhtala)
• Akner
• Amoj
• Arjut kayaranin kits
• Armanis
• Aroghjaranin kits
• Bendik
• Getavan
• Gogavan
• Gulludara
• Haydarli
• Kilisa
• Kober kayarani
• Kruglaya Shishka
• Noramut
• Pambak kayaranin kits
• Poqr Ayrum

Kaldari (talk) 23:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

• Well, this is quite a piece of research you have completed. Very useful, I am sure. In my opinion the first step is to add all these villages to
  List of municipalities in Armenia, even if some of them are red-linked. Then you will know that the list matches the 2001 census. The search for raions and the incorporation in the marz articles can come later. I have noticed one thing though: Korchlu and Kunik, for instance, are described as "town" in the respective wiki articles. This should be changed to "village" and similar edits for consistency should be made in all other village articles. This, of course, harks back to your initial issue of terminological inconsistency that has led to all this interesting work. --Zlerman (talk
  ) 03:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The missing villages from Shirak Province are:

• Aghin kayarani
• Akhuryan kayarani
• Aravet
• Bardzrashen
• Darik
• Kamkhut
• Kharkov
• Lorasar
• Mayisyan kayarani
• Paghakn
• Yeghnajur
• Yerizak

Kaldari (talk) 18:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The missing villages from Syunik Province are:

• Aghbulagh
• Ajabaj
• Arznak
• Aygedzor
• Ditsmayri
• Geghavank
• Ghurdghulagh
• Gomaran
• Hajatin
• Jakaten
• Kard
• Kavjut
• Khordzor
• Kirs
• Maralzami
• Musallam
• Nerqin Giratagh
• Nerqin Gyodaklu
• Paytamshakman gortsar. kits
• Shamb
• Shishkert
• Tsghuni

Kaldari (talk) 22:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The missing villages in

• Geghatap
• Jermakavan
• Kayan

Kaldari (talk) 22:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The missing villages in

• Akhta
• Amaghu
• Arates
• Getikvank
• Horadis
• Kalasar
• Kapuit
• Kechut
• Mozrov
• Sevazhire
• Ughedzor

That should be all of them. Kaldari (talk) 22:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The Verdict

According to my count there are 951 villages listed in the 2001 Armenian census. As I mentioned above, some sources state that there are 952 or 953 villages. In the census documents for each marz I found two miscounts, one for

• This is most impressive. Will you now insert the missing villages in
  List of municipalities in Armenia (in alphabetical order), or would you like me (and perhaps also others) to start helping you with the insertions? --Zlerman (talk
  ) 02:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Hold off for a little bit. Thanks! Kaldari (talk) 22:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Apparently, Armenia has 2 totally different schemes of classifying places which are similar but not exactly alike. This is apparently what is responsible for the discrepancies I listed above. One scheme is classifying places as "Urban Communities", "Rural Communities", and "Settlements" (no idea what the native Armenian equivs are). The other scheme is classifying places as either "Towns" (kaghakner) or "Villages" (gyugher). "Towns" seem to pretty much always equal "Urban Communities". "Villages" equal either "Rural Communities" or "Settlements". The existing Armenian province articles equated the word "community" with "municipality" and thus didn't list any villages which are considered merely "settlements" (these are typically smaller populated places within larger villages). Hope that was understandable. This brings up several questions:

1. Should we include both sets of lists in the province articles?
2. Should
   List of towns and villages in Armenia
   ?
3. Should we create a new
   List of municipalities in Armenia
   article that lists the urban and rural communities, but not the settlements?
4. What are the Armenian equivalents of the terms "Urban Communities", "Rural Communities", and "Settlements"?
5. It is reasonable to equate whatever the Armenian term for "community" is in these contexts with the idea of "municipalities"?
6. Is the Urban Communities/Rural Communities/Settlements scheme replacing the Towns/Villages scheme or vice-versa (or are they both equally valid)?

Kaldari (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

As far as I understand from the census data sheets, the Armenian word used for communities is "hamaynk" (համայնք). A settlement (again according to the census data sheets) is a "bnakavayr" (բնակավայր). I don't think one system is replacing the other. I'm pretty sure the local government is organised by community, see article 104 of the constitution. Unfortunately the Armenian version doesn't show correctly in my browser. I've seen at least one instance of an urban community containing a town (kaghak) and a village (gyugh). Most (>90%) communities contain only one settlement (town or village). Therefore I wouldn't recommend putting both a list of municipalities (=communities) and a list of settlements in province articles. How about adding the non-independent villages to the footnotes of the municipality tables? Markussep ^Talk 08:30, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Is there any way for us to find out the legal definitions of any of these terms (if they exist)? Kaldari (talk) 14:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

For legal definitions of all self-government concepts you have to go to the Law on Local Self-Government, article 4. I am citing the Russian version, because the English translations that I have found on the web are hopelessly flawed. A helpful informal description in English from [5] is reproduced below:

"Provincial administrations, however, do possess the authority to supervise and intervene as deemed necessary in the day-to-day life of lower government structures, the Communities (Hamaynkner), that are located in their provinces. Under the Armenian Constitution, all cities, villages, and the 12 Districts of Yerevan have the status of a Community and are governed by a locally-elected Community Chief and a legislative body called the Council of Elders (Avakani). In cities, Community Chiefs hold the title of Mayor. These locally elected chief executives can be removed by the central government upon the recommendation of the provincial Governor."

So, a town is a community and a village is a community. A city is also a community, or maybe a cluster of communities (12 communities of Yerevan).

Incidentally, it seems to me that you have been over-hasty renaming List of municipalities in Armenia as List of towns and villages in Armenia: it is clear from all Armenian legal documents that a municipality is a town or a village. See also the Wiki definition in Municipality. --Zlerman (talk) 15:56, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The paragraph you quoted above doesn't make sense. There are lots of villages that are not listed as communities in the stats I have looked at. In particular all villages that are contained within another community. Take for example:

Pirlu, and Verin Giratagh

just to get started (there are about 84 total). These are all listed as villages in the census, but not counted as communities in the marz stats. This is why the number of towns and villages for any marz do not equal the number of communities. Look at page 2 of any of the following PDFs to see what I mean:

• http://www.armstat.am/file/article/marz_07_e_32.pdf
• http://www.armstat.am/file/article/marz_07_e_31.pdf
• http://www.armstat.am/file/article/marz_07_e_30.pdf
• etc.

My only conclusion so far is that the English versions of all these documents are hopelessly poorly translated, i.e. they do not translate things consistently. Kaldari (talk) 17:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

According to Marzes of the Republic of Armenia in Figures, 2002-2006 (which is published by the Armenian government) there are 915 communities (urban and rural) or 927 if you count "district communities" as communities (although those seems to be a distinct type of entity). According to the 2001 Armenian census there are 951 towns and villages (some of which belong to other towns or villages) (this doesn't count the 12 "districts" or "district communities" of Yerevan). I really think we need a native Armenian speaker to sort out this mess. Kaldari (talk) 18:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

According to all the sources I've looked at, the paragraph you quoted above is incorrect, as villages which are considered "settlements" are not considered "communities" (or at least they are not counted that way). Whether this means they are self-governing or not, I have no idea. Kaldari (talk) 18:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we find any legal definitions of the terms hamaynk, bnakavayr, kaghak, or gyugh that are supplied by the Armenian government or census department? Kaldari (talk) 18:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Please see

Can anyone supply the original Armenian version of these 2 sentences? I'm suspecting that "community" is "համայնք" and "residential areas" is the plural of "բնակավայր" (what I've been calling "settlements"), but it would be nice to know that for sure so that we can start sorting out what these terms actually mean legally. Kaldari (talk) 19:03, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Found it: "Համայնքը մեկ կամ մի քանի բնակավայրերի բնակչության հանրությունն է: Համայնքն իրավաբանական անձ է, ունի սեփականության իրավունք եւ գույքային այլ իրավունքներ:" Can anyone provide an extremely literal interpretation of that (word for word)? Kaldari (talk) 19:47, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's what I've been able to decipher. Please correct anything that seems wrong:

• Bnakavayrer (բնակավայրեր), sing. bnakavayr (բնակավայր) - translated as either "residential area" or "settlement". Kaghakner/towns and gyugher/villages are two types of bnakavayrer/settlements.

• Hamaynkner (համայնքներ), sing. hamaynk (համայնք) - usually translated as "community", occassionally translated as "district". When used in Armenian statistics seems to equate to municipality, i.e. a self-governing settlement or group of settlements. All hamaynkner/communities consist of one or more bnakavayrer/settlements according to the Armenian constitution. A hamaynk/community is the typical unit of government below a marz/province. Hamaynkner/communities are classified as either urban or rural. Yerevan has the status of a hamaynk.[6]

• Kaghakner (քաղաքներ), sing. kaghak (քաղաք) - usually translated as "town", sometimes translated as "city". A kaghak is a type of bnakavayr/settlement.

• Gyugher (գյուղեր), sing. gyugh (գյուղ) - translated consistently as "village". One or more gyugher/villages can combine to form a single hamaynk/community. Thus not all villages are communities, but all villages are part of a community. A gyugh is a type of bnakavayr/settlement.

Kaldari (talk) 20:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Here is the final text I settled on for the Armenia article:

Within each province are communities (hamaynkner, singular hamaynk). Each community is self-governing and consists of one or more settlements (bnakavayrer, singular bnakavayr). Settlements are classified as either towns (kaghakner, singular kaghak) or villages (gyugher, singular gyugh). As of 2007, Armenia includes 915 communities, of which 49 are considered urban and 866 are considered rural. The capital, Yerevan, also has the status of a community.^[1] Additionally, Yerevan is divided into twelve semi-autonomous districts.

Kaldari (talk) 21:26, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Yerevan is divided into 12 communities/hamaynkner, see this website saying "ԵՐԵՎԱՆԻ ԹԱՂԱՅԻՆ ՀԱՄԱՅՆՔՆԵՐԸ" = "Yerevani kaghayin hamaynknere". The city of Yerevan has a province/marz-like status, with 1 lord mayor and 12 mayors for the communities. Markussep ^Talk 21:30, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. This government site says that Yerevan itself has the status of a comminity[7]. Is it possible that both Yerevan and its districts are considered communities or do you think that one of our sources is wrong? Kaldari (talk) 21:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, I think your idea makes more sense. Too bad there are conflicting/confusing sources. Kaldari (talk) 21:44, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's the text from the Armenian Constitution: "Երեւանը համայնք է: Երեւան քաղաքում տեղական ինքնակառավարման եւ տեղական ինքնակառավարման մարմինների ձեւավորման առանձնահատկությունները սահմանվում են օրենքով: Օրենքով կարող է սահմանվել Երեւանի քաղաքապետի ուղղակի կամ անուղղակի ընտրություն:" Kaldari (talk) 21:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The first sentence translates to "Yerevan community is". Kaldari (talk) 21:56, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The Armenian census refers to the districts of Yerevan as "Թաղային համայնքները" (Kaghayin Hamaynkner) which they translate as "Quarter Communities". For other provinces they list communities as simply "համայնքները" (Hamaynkner), so they appear to be a special type of community (which seems to make sense). Kaldari (talk) 00:00, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

• A new law, "On Local Selfgovernment and Territorial Management in Yerevan" ("О местном самоуправлении и территориальном управлении в Ереване") passed first reading in December 2007 and is now awaiting second and third readings in Parliament. As far as I understand from news reports (in Russian), according to this law Yerevan will lose its current "marz" status and will become a municipality (i.e, a "community"). Today Yerevan is divided into 12 "communities" (boroughs, "quarter communities") and elections for community mayor are held in each of the 12 communities separately (see here ). This process somehow leads (or will lead according to the new law) to the creation of a "Council of Elders" for Yerevan, which elects (will elect) the mayor of the city (see here). It seems that the purpose of the law is to make the status of Yerevan consistent with the Constitution (as quoted above). The wording used for Yerevan by Kaldari in Armenia#Administrative division is fully adequate given the current state of information and should be kept until after the adoption of the new law. --Zlerman (talk) 02:27, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

A collection of Wikipedia articles is being collected together as Wikipedia 0.7. This collection will be released on DVD later this year, and will be available for free download. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles; a team of copyeditors has agreed to help improve the writing upon request.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team, SelectionBot 20:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

An ongoing discussion that is taking place, might have an affect on Armenian articles. VartanM (talk) 01:41, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi I was looking for some information on this painter, in order to create an article in French. It seems to me that the English article is a copy of this website. As I don't know that much the copyright procedures here, I thought I would let you know. Sardur (talk) 08:43, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have removed the plagiarized material from the article. Kaldari (talk) 20:43, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Can you folks look this over, add anything you know, and add Armenian text? Thank you! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 14:40, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Based on a search of Wikipedia's articles related to Armenia, I've found some articles that I believe are about places in Armenia, and could usefully have

The articles in question are listed in Category:Armenia articles missing geocoordinate data. At the time of writing, some examples included:

1. Bagrevand
2. Daranali
3. Dariunq
4. Hanzith
5. Khachkar
6. Maku (Armenia)
7. Shushi (province)

...and there are many more, as well. At the time of posting this notice, there were 95 articles in this category needing geographical coordinates.

Why add coordinates?

By adding coordinates, a Wikipedia reader can easily view the location on a street map, nautical chart, topographic map, by satellite photo, realtime weather map, and in many other ways. Coordinate data makes an article eventually appear in various services such as Google Maps' Wikipedia overlay, Google Earth, and Wikipedia's own internal map service. Coordinate data also helps readers looking for geographically-based data, such as locations near a reference point, or related information.

How can I do it?

The articles are all marked with {{

• s:Index:The History of Armenia - Avdall - Volume 1.djvu
• (I will work on the second volume tomorrow.)

Each page has text and an image; the objective is to fix any text errors you see when you look at the image. If everyone spends five minutes doing a single page, the entire volume will be accurate very quickly.

Hi, John: I just want to make sure that I am doing it right. I proofread p. 46 and changed its status; but then pp. 47-48 have pictures and no text. After that, p. 49 has both text and picture. Any instructions in this respect? Also how can I quickly go from one page to the next, say from p. 50 (once I have finished proofreading it) to p. 51? Look forward to hearing from you. Incidentally, I am absolutely fascinated with what you are trying to accomplish! --Zlerman (talk) 10:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

pagescans 46-55 are now looking good. I have made some modifications to them, with descriptions in the edit summary. If you have a specific query, feel free to ask me on my Wikisource user talk, or use the edit summary to suggest areas that someone else needs to assist with.

At the top of each page are links to the previous and next page; they appear above the word "Page".

chat

) 22:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

When you saw blank pages for scans 47 & 48, I think they were in the OCR queue, waiting for the OCR bot to process. All of volume one should now have OCR text. If there is a page without OCR when the image does have text, you can mark it as "Problematic".

chat

) 00:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, a free downloadable electronic edition of

History of Armenia (Moses of Chorene) in RUSSIAN translation is available here. Maybe useful to someone. --Zlerman (talk

) 10:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Could someone please add the English transliteration for the Armenian name of this "prehistoric" Soviet republic in this section? Many thanks. --Zlerman (talk) 05:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I need independent expert confirmation that "Boraki (Armenian: Բորակի) are a kind of Armenian fried

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