Talk:Iranian principlists

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Right wing succeeded by Principlism but not same that

@

Hossein Fadaee secretary-general of that party), formed the Principlism. Principlists established Alliance of Builders from Society of Devotees and Islamic Society of Engineers
politicians. First rivalry of them against Reformists was at 2003 local elections...

So all of the former right wing is not Principlist now. Please read this articles for detailed informations: this, this, this, this and this are valuable articles and have many reliable sources. Also this and this news are good reports.

I should say something another. Rafsanjani who was the Leader of former Right wing, was not a Principlist. He was a politician of Moderate wing (Persian: جناح اعتدال‌گرا) (neither Principlist, nor Reformist) such as Hassan Rouhani and was leaded that wing until five months ago. Principlists backed principlist candidates in first round and backed Ahmadinejad in second round of 2005 election.

I think, the Moderate wing (include MDP, ECP and coalition of FDP) must be in Template:Iranian political parties as third wing of Iranian political parties.

regards

talk) 22:42, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply
]

@
Benyamin-ln
: Hi. Thank you for your constructive and informative explanations. I think we have to discuss different topics. The Questions are:
  1. Do the terms "Principlist", "Conservative" or "Right-wing" refer to different factions?
  2. Are "Moderates" a genuine faction?

My answer to both questions is no. Many scholarly sources (including Harris (2017) and Amir Arjomand and Brown (2013) that I added to the article), acknowledge that the word 'principlist' is a

Abadgaran#References
).

I'm pretty familiar with Iran's Persian-language political jargon and well-aware of the usage of the word E'tedal since 2013, but as far as I have searched scholarly works, they do not consider "moderates" to be a genuine faction separate from principlists and refomists, and use the term in the moderate–hardliner dualism sense. Some use the term 'moderate conservative', refering to the pragmatist conservatives. So, figures like

Nategh
(who are obviously principlist/conservative) are referred to as 'moderates'. In English-language sources, even in media, the term is not established to refer to an original faction founded in 2013.

[A little explanation off the reseaning mentioned above, just for the sake of clarification and not discussion: During the last two decades, several organizations claimed to be "the

kargozaran do consider itself to be the "Modern Right" and split from the right-wing (Ghouchani
regularly mentions this in their organ Sazandegi) and it is reflected in the article as well. But the only similarity between Kargozaran and "the right-wing" is their capitalist attitude towards economy. They do not share social coservative views, nor domestic/foreign policy of the latter.] –Pahlevun (talk) 15:24, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your attention. I accept your explains to second question.
I can't speak english very well but i try to explain my ideas. Let me give you an example. During
Iran Contra Affair, some high-rank politicians from right wing such as Hassan Rouhani Negotiated with Americans. Left-wingers hardly reacted to this news, because they opposing about Negotiating with West. But now you see that Opposition of Negotiations with West are Principlists (however Reformists longing for any negotiations). It was an example about difference of their worldview. At 1988, Left-wingers challenged right-winger in format of Coalition of the Oppressed and Deprived, but in 2017 Ebrahim Raisi
(a principlist) named as Seyyed-e Mahrooman by his fans. He extremely challenged Rouhani's social policies.
I refer to Darabi (1388), Mozaffari (1387) and Shadlou (1386). According to Darabi (1388), some former left-wingers became principlist too. Also we knew some former right-wingers are reformist now (kargozarans). So my answer to first question is yes. Thus left-wing and reformism are refer to different factions, too.
talk) 21:49, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply
]
I think we need more focus on the sources. Would you please bring more details on the sources above This is from the English translation of Encyclopaedia of the World of Islam (reference number 11 in the article):

After the Islamic right-wing and left-wing movements began to be referred to as the “conservative” or “principlist” (usulgara) and the “reformist” (islahtalab) movements respectively, the Jāme'e-ye Rowhāniyyat came to be categorised as a conservative political organization. (Murtajī, pp 7-9; Zārīfīnīyā, p.88; Dārābī, pp. 153-154, n.2)

It cites Dārābī as one of the sources, I wonder is it the same source you refer or not. Pahlevun (talk) 14:47, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That cites to another book of Darabi which published at 2000 (Feyziyeh Politicians: Review, critique, background and performance of Combatant Clergy Association of Tehran) but I refer to newer book of him (Recognition of political streams in Iran). I cited to «The Right Stream [wing] did not turn into Principlism stream All at once, but after performing a process of planning and organizing the organization. (Darabi, pp. 134-145)». I got confused too...
I saw a new article from
talk) 22:33, 24 June 2017 (UTC)[reply
]
Is Darabi we're talking about Ali Darabi? That's quite a surprise, because the Encyclopaedia of the World of Islam entry and pajoohe website refer to the same sources (Zārīfīnīyā and Dārābī) but they differ in the way they see the right-wing/conservatives. The former source seems more reliable to me, because its an encyclopaedia. Anyway, I'm currently searching for the sources on this and I'm going to add what I find to Political factions in Iran. I invite you to join me in the process, maybe we can reach a consensus. Pahlevun (talk) 14:11, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, he is. It was so complicated... I'm trying to find other sources too.
talk) 22:31, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply
]

new cites

References

  1. ISSN 1735-9678
    . Retrieved 27 June 2017.

Elections before 2001

@

talk) 13:32, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
]

The point is the 1997 election was the very first contested presidential election in Iran. Do you suggest to remove it? By the way, I'm still working on Political factions in Iran. Pahlevun (talk) 14:02, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, until completeness of
talk) 16:59, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply
]

Requested move 23 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 01:42, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Iranian Principlists → Iranian principlists – "Principlists" is not consistently capitalized in reliable sources; judging from Google Scholar results it's about 50-50. Per WP:NCCAPS it should therefore be in sentence case. I also wouldn't object to an alternate name such as "principlism (Iran)" or "principlists (Iran)", because it's not clear that the compound "Iranian P/principlists" is common enough for natural disambiguation to apply. (t · c) buidhe 21:20, 23 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 01:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply
]

It seems like principalist / principalism should be related to having principals rather than having principles, but in practice they appear to just be minority spelling variants with the same meaning. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:31, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting comment: There is currently a consensus to move, but no clear consensus on where to move to; relisting to allow additional discussion of the two options - Iranian principlists and Principlists (Iran) BilledMammal (talk) 01:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Iranian principlists. Not sure why you think there's no consensus here, BilledMammal, the original proposal has sufficient support. But adding another support !vote anyway. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 11:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Any reaction to my comment? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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