Talk:Manticore

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Perhaps a better picture will suit, the first manticore pic looks more like a chinese new year lion on a bad day —The preceding

I would recommend a change of picture. The first paragraph of text says that "The tail is either of a dragon or a scorpion." The manticore in the picture has a lion's tail. Should the picture be changed to fit the given description? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.142.184.211 (talk) 07:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(thus confusing its imagery with the cryptozoology of a porcupine...). This part is confusing. As far as I know, porcupines are not cryptozoological. Perhaps someone that knows what it's supposed to mean can come along and clear this up? —The preceding

I don't know much aboot it, but manticores appear in at least one episode of Charmed. If anyone knows anything aboot the show, or knows how to find out more about the manticores in it, that would make a nice addition to the list at the bottom, IMHO. Tomer^talk 15:06, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Charmed wiki, creatures called manticores only appeared in one episode and they don't seem to have anything in common with the manticore in this article.Fyrael (talk) 16:40, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article used to have a lot more to it, now it's a stub! [unsigned]

Wiley Ley speculated that the original stories of the manticore were based on 3rd or 4th generation tales of tigers with a bit of Asiatic lion mixed in. CFLeon (talk) 22:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It said: "Nowadays, the manticore is said by the natives to inhabit the forests of Asia, particularly Indonesia. ... " and so on. I am from Indonesia but I have never heard this thing or I don't know what it's spell in Indonesian. Plese provide the refernce, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ndrasen (talk • contribs) 05:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the mythical beast. Why some small group of t-shirt designers warrant inclusion in this article I'm not sure. Wikipedia is not your personal promotion platform, nor is it a directory of relevant services. If nobody objects with a semi-decent rationale, I move to delete the section "Real Life Applications" and promotional links to the Emptees site. Mhoskins (talk) 19:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Given we have appearances from ancient thru modern in popular legend of this fictional creature, this was a needless and arbitrary split in the first place. Regardless of validity of content, I think the material in not distinct or notable enough to warrant a separate page. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support

1. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
2. The material does need some kind of verification/notation as to its significance though; possibly a lot of it can be discarded.
   talk) 21:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply
   ]
3. Support "merge," but really only a couple of things on the other article are notable enough to be moved over and the rest should be deleted as triviacruft. DreamGuy (talk) 21:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
4. Support, per
   The'FortyFive' 15:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply
   ]
5. Support merger, acknowledging that some of the items to be merged are at best dubiously notable and may not, in fact, necessarily qualify for inclusion in the merged article, as per DreamGuy. John Carter (talk) 15:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

• Oppose deletion merger There is no way to merge that much information into the main article. Most of it would be deleted. Preserve, don't destroy. It is notable to see how a mythical creature appeared in so many stories throughout history. Dream Focus 22:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose, none of it is needed here. Let it exist as it is. Mintrick (talk) 22:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

My worry is that this page is more vulnerable to being deleted as is (i.e. on its own) than combined into parent article. As well, there is no clear line between ancient and modern. I wasn't meaning a deletion merger by any means. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If the material is bad enough to be deleted, then it should be deleted, not hidden in another article. If that's you're worry, I suggest you remove all unreferenced appearances and restructure the article around cited analysis. That, of course, would be starting from the beginning. Mintrick (talk) 00:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is not 'hidden' by being in a main article - my point is this completely arbitrary and unnecessary splitting of articles that you have embarked upon. And yes, if there are a couple of notable appearances but the consensus is to delete the article as a whole, then they are more likely to remain in the pedia. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is no way it'd be deleted, as long as you have at least a handful of people there to say Keep. Then you'll get a no consensus, at the very least. I've seen articles like that preserved before, and will fight to keep it should anyone ever nominate it for deletion. If that information was copied to the main article, someone would come along and tag it as trivia, then try to destroy it. Best to keep it where its at now. Dream Focus 12:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, in arms, brother :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently DF is saying that he'll do whatever it takes to keep the info, despite it not meeting our content policies. I've seen plenty of those deleted before, and just because DF votes Keep on everything he sees doesn't mean everything ends up kept. Quite the contrary, in fact. DreamGuy (talk) 13:50, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh DG, don't be such a wet blanket :( I keep promising to try and dig up some stuff, I know. I will remove some spam though :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There was no consensus to merge, or destroy outright and add in a redirect, and yet on his own DreamGuy decided to do so, effectively destroying the other article. I'm going to go undo that now. Form a proper consensus, and stop bothering it. Also, you don't need references to confirm those sources mentioned had a manticore in them. If you think the article has merit to exist, then you can nominate it for deletion through the proper procedures. Dream Focus 14:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Sorry Mintrick for the rollback. meant to hit 'undo' with commentary. I am digging up some sources. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Casliber do you want to move your name from the Support to the Oppose section? Dream Focus 16:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I still think they are better together than split - one article is plent big enough for all. I will hunt down some more sources later. Note merge does not mean delete. I do think some articles warrant a separate cultural article when they are big enough, but most aren't, and there is no clear boundary between ancient and modern pop culture. Think fo Dante, Aesop's fables, shakespeare, various Roman writers, psychology etc. the split is in general not valid. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, rather than get in a revert war over unsourced material, I have placed it here and material can be transferred once reliable sources are found: Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Books

• In the book by Rick Riordan, The Titan's Curse, the manticore, named Dr. Thorn, is the headmaster of a military school. Thorn was later killed by the Greek god Dionysus.
• In Salman Rushdie's novel The Satanic Verses, one of the characters has a short series of encounters with what he calls a manticore in the streets of Jahilia, an ancient Arabian town which is the setting of some of the flashback-dream sequences.
• In Dante's Inferno, Dante and Virgil descend to the 8th circle on the back of Geryon, a Manticore. Here the manticore is a symbol of fraud with a human face to depict the uniquely human nature of the sin.
• Good Magician Humphrey's magical demesnes, and poses one of the challenges protagonist Bink
  must pass to meet the wizard. The paperback printed by Del Rey features this scene with the manticore on the cover.
• Canadian writer Robertson Davies wrote a novel entitled The Manticore, published in 1972. It is the second volume of his "Deptford trilogy," which begins with Fifth Business and concludes with World of Wonders. The manticore figures into protagonist David's psycho-analysis under Jungian analyst Dr. VonHaller. David's dream of the manticore is reflective of himself and the roles he plays interacting with other people and society. reffed and added - was an award-winning book Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• In the Honorverse novels by David Weber, the Star Kingdom of Manticore is a fictional nation. The three habitable planets in the Manticore system bear the names Manticore, Sphinx, and Gryphon, references to chimerical beasts.
• In the Japanese series Boogiepop (as well as Boogiepop and Others and Boogiepop Phantom), the manticore is portrayed as a clone made by the Towa Organization. Manticore escaped from them, and sought to hide itself in Shinyo Academy by taking the form of a student, where it killed and devoured several others.
• A manticore appears in the
  Percy Jackson & The Olympians
  series. He is portrayed as having "enormous claws". He was described as "his face still human, but his body that of a huge lion. His leathery, spiky tail whipped deadly thorns in all directions". This manticore was capable of disguising himself as a human.
• A manticore is one of the mythical creatures represented in
  Mommy Fortuna's carnival in the book The Last Unicorn
  by Peter S. Beagle. The manticore is eventually revealed to be merely a lion with a magic spell placed on it to trick viewers.
• In
  Buckbeak the Hippogriff
  , Ron finds a case of a manticore savaging a person in 1296. The manticore was found "not guilty", due to the fact that everyone was too afraid to go near it.
• In
  George R.R. Martin, Daenerys is attacked by a manticore. In this case, a poisonous insect or arachnid
  with a human-like face.
• In
  John Ney Reiber's version of the comic book The Books of Magic, The Manticore is one of Timothy Hunter's first and greatest foes. It wears a human skin as a disguise, but its triple rows of teeth are visible when it smiles. Though a fantastic creature itself, it employs cold logic to disprove the existence of magical creatures, killing them through banality and placing them in a museum. This latter methodology calls to mind the lethal force of Banality in the White Wolf game Changeling: The Dreaming
  . It should noted that Reiber's interpretation of the Manticore predates this game by several years.
• In the
  Spiderwick universe, manticores are cougar
  -like creatures with the heads of bearded men, tails of poisoned spikes and melodious voices. They are famous man-killers.
• Manticores make several appearances in Roger Zelazny's Amber Series.
• Upas tree
  as helpless babies, and are frequently captured and caged.
• In Orson Scott Card's novel Ender's Game, one of the Battle School armies is named Manticore.