User talk:Vinay Jha
- List of DYKs
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On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page .
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On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page .
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-VJha Talk 19:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
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Correct now?
July 2007
Precession article
Re: HINDUISM : Reply from Vinay Jha
I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Cheers. Abecedare 03:53, 05 january
2014 (UTC)
Amarakośa 2.7.45-46
- I would like to suggest that we use the talk page for whatever article we are working on as the place to put messages that pertain to that article. Wikipedia is a collaborative environment, and we can benefit from having other editors help with each article. The concept of Svadhyaya. This printed version has a Hindi commentary by a very good scholar which will help anyone immensely to master Sanskrit language. If you devote a few days on the DESIGN of Amarkosha, you will find that its order is far more scientific for a suffixional language like Sanskrit (like all IE languages) than an artificial alphabetical order used by modern lexicographers. Monier Williams was planning to redesign his great dictionary according to scientific principles of Sanskrit grammar, but unfortunately he died before he could fulfill this great vision. Ask the compilers of sanskritdocuments.org to rectify the line numbering of Amarkosha. The line numbering system employed by the version I quote from is better and should be followed by these online compilers. Moreover, these online compilers have omitted shloka-number and used line-number instead (each shloka has two lines in amarkosha), which vastly reduces the value of their efforts, because you must quote shloka number and not line number. But in this online version, you will find it hard to determine where a shloka begins or ends ! Vinay Jha 11:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
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utcursch | talk 14:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Editing of talk pages
Maithil Brāhamana, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.surfindia.com/matrimonials/maithili.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 01:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I had merely redirected an old Wiki article to a new one because the title of old article was wrong. It seems the contents of old article had something in common with the website reffered to above. I did not create that page within or outside Wiki. But now I have rectified this situation and placed relevant information on the talk page. - Vinay Jha 03:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
August 2007
- I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Abecedare 19:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
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2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
]
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Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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{{helpme|your question here}} on this page, and someone will be around to help. Again, welcome! --AccReqBot 11:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Correct now?
July 2007
Precession article
Re: HINDUISM : Reply from Vinay Jha
I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Cheers. Abecedare 03:53, 05 january
2014 (UTC)
Amarakośa 2.7.45-46
- I would like to suggest that we use the talk page for whatever article we are working on as the place to put messages that pertain to that article. Wikipedia is a collaborative environment, and we can benefit from having other editors help with each article. The concept of Svadhyaya. This printed version has a Hindi commentary by a very good scholar which will help anyone immensely to master Sanskrit language. If you devote a few days on the DESIGN of Amarkosha, you will find that its order is far more scientific for a suffixional language like Sanskrit (like all IE languages) than an artificial alphabetical order used by modern lexicographers. Monier Williams was planning to redesign his great dictionary according to scientific principles of Sanskrit grammar, but unfortunately he died before he could fulfill this great vision. Ask the compilers of sanskritdocuments.org to rectify the line numbering of Amarkosha. The line numbering system employed by the version I quote from is better and should be followed by these online compilers. Moreover, these online compilers have omitted shloka-number and used line-number instead (each shloka has two lines in amarkosha), which vastly reduces the value of their efforts, because you must quote shloka number and not line number. But in this online version, you will find it hard to determine where a shloka begins or ends ! Vinay Jha 11:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
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utcursch | talk 14:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Editing of talk pages
Maithil Brāhamana, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.surfindia.com/matrimonials/maithili.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 01:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I had merely redirected an old Wiki article to a new one because the title of old article was wrong. It seems the contents of old article had something in common with the website reffered to above. I did not create that page within or outside Wiki. But now I have rectified this situation and placed relevant information on the talk page. - Vinay Jha 03:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
August 2007
- I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Abecedare 19:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
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2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
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Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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July 2007
Precession article
Re: HINDUISM : Reply from Vinay Jha
I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Cheers. Abecedare 03:53, 05 january
2014 (UTC)
Amarakośa 2.7.45-46
- I would like to suggest that we use the talk page for whatever article we are working on as the place to put messages that pertain to that article. Wikipedia is a collaborative environment, and we can benefit from having other editors help with each article. The concept of Svadhyaya. This printed version has a Hindi commentary by a very good scholar which will help anyone immensely to master Sanskrit language. If you devote a few days on the DESIGN of Amarkosha, you will find that its order is far more scientific for a suffixional language like Sanskrit (like all IE languages) than an artificial alphabetical order used by modern lexicographers. Monier Williams was planning to redesign his great dictionary according to scientific principles of Sanskrit grammar, but unfortunately he died before he could fulfill this great vision. Ask the compilers of sanskritdocuments.org to rectify the line numbering of Amarkosha. The line numbering system employed by the version I quote from is better and should be followed by these online compilers. Moreover, these online compilers have omitted shloka-number and used line-number instead (each shloka has two lines in amarkosha), which vastly reduces the value of their efforts, because you must quote shloka number and not line number. But in this online version, you will find it hard to determine where a shloka begins or ends ! Vinay Jha 11:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
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utcursch | talk 14:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Editing of talk pages
Maithil Brāhamana, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.surfindia.com/matrimonials/maithili.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 01:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I had merely redirected an old Wiki article to a new one because the title of old article was wrong. It seems the contents of old article had something in common with the website reffered to above. I did not create that page within or outside Wiki. But now I have rectified this situation and placed relevant information on the talk page. - Vinay Jha 03:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
August 2007
- I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Abecedare 19:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
]
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Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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Precession article
Re: HINDUISM : Reply from Vinay Jha
I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Cheers. Abecedare 03:53, 05 january
2014 (UTC)
Amarakośa 2.7.45-46
- I would like to suggest that we use the talk page for whatever article we are working on as the place to put messages that pertain to that article. Wikipedia is a collaborative environment, and we can benefit from having other editors help with each article. The concept of Svadhyaya. This printed version has a Hindi commentary by a very good scholar which will help anyone immensely to master Sanskrit language. If you devote a few days on the DESIGN of Amarkosha, you will find that its order is far more scientific for a suffixional language like Sanskrit (like all IE languages) than an artificial alphabetical order used by modern lexicographers. Monier Williams was planning to redesign his great dictionary according to scientific principles of Sanskrit grammar, but unfortunately he died before he could fulfill this great vision. Ask the compilers of sanskritdocuments.org to rectify the line numbering of Amarkosha. The line numbering system employed by the version I quote from is better and should be followed by these online compilers. Moreover, these online compilers have omitted shloka-number and used line-number instead (each shloka has two lines in amarkosha), which vastly reduces the value of their efforts, because you must quote shloka number and not line number. But in this online version, you will find it hard to determine where a shloka begins or ends ! Vinay Jha 11:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
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utcursch | talk 14:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Editing of talk pages
Maithil Brāhamana, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.surfindia.com/matrimonials/maithili.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 01:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I had merely redirected an old Wiki article to a new one because the title of old article was wrong. It seems the contents of old article had something in common with the website reffered to above. I did not create that page within or outside Wiki. But now I have rectified this situation and placed relevant information on the talk page. - Vinay Jha 03:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
August 2007
- I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Abecedare 19:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
]
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Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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Re: HINDUISM : Reply from Vinay Jha
Amarakośa 2.7.45-46
- I would like to suggest that we use the talk page for whatever article we are working on as the place to put messages that pertain to that article. Wikipedia is a collaborative environment, and we can benefit from having other editors help with each article. The concept of Svadhyaya. This printed version has a Hindi commentary by a very good scholar which will help anyone immensely to master Sanskrit language. If you devote a few days on the DESIGN of Amarkosha, you will find that its order is far more scientific for a suffixional language like Sanskrit (like all IE languages) than an artificial alphabetical order used by modern lexicographers. Monier Williams was planning to redesign his great dictionary according to scientific principles of Sanskrit grammar, but unfortunately he died before he could fulfill this great vision. Ask the compilers of sanskritdocuments.org to rectify the line numbering of Amarkosha. The line numbering system employed by the version I quote from is better and should be followed by these online compilers. Moreover, these online compilers have omitted shloka-number and used line-number instead (each shloka has two lines in amarkosha), which vastly reduces the value of their efforts, because you must quote shloka number and not line number. But in this online version, you will find it hard to determine where a shloka begins or ends ! Vinay Jha 11:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
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utcursch | talk 14:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Editing of talk pages
Maithil Brāhamana, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.surfindia.com/matrimonials/maithili.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 01:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I had merely redirected an old Wiki article to a new one because the title of old article was wrong. It seems the contents of old article had something in common with the website reffered to above. I did not create that page within or outside Wiki. But now I have rectified this situation and placed relevant information on the talk page. - Vinay Jha 03:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
August 2007
- I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Abecedare 19:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
]
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Proposed deletion of File:Darbhanga1.gifThe file File:Darbhanga1.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Orphaned file with no obvious value in transferring to Commons
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be
deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.
Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message
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Editing of talk pages
Maithil Brāhamana, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.surfindia.com/matrimonials/maithili.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 01:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I had merely redirected an old Wiki article to a new one because the title of old article was wrong. It seems the contents of old article had something in common with the website reffered to above. I did not create that page within or outside Wiki. But now I have rectified this situation and placed relevant information on the talk page. - Vinay Jha 03:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
August 2007
- I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Abecedare 19:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
]
Notification
The Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions, with the appropriate sections of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures, and with the case decision page before making any further edits to the pages in question. This is a non administrator notification, and will be logged as such on the case decision, pursuant to the conditions of the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions system.
Darkness Shines (talk) 22:44, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
ArbCom elections are now open!Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)]
ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!
Hello, Vinay Jha. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
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If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
ArbCom 2017 election voter message
Hello, Vinay Jha. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Proposed deletion of File:Darbhanga1.gifThe file File:Darbhanga1.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Orphaned file with no obvious value in transferring to Commons
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be
deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.
Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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Maithil Brāhamana, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.surfindia.com/matrimonials/maithili.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 01:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I had merely redirected an old Wiki article to a new one because the title of old article was wrong. It seems the contents of old article had something in common with the website reffered to above. I did not create that page within or outside Wiki. But now I have rectified this situation and placed relevant information on the talk page. - Vinay Jha 03:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
August 2007
- I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Abecedare 19:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
]
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The Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions, with the appropriate sections of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures, and with the case decision page before making any further edits to the pages in question. This is a non administrator notification, and will be logged as such on the case decision, pursuant to the conditions of the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions system.
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Proposed deletion of File:Darbhanga1.gifThe file File:Darbhanga1.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Orphaned file with no obvious value in transferring to Commons
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Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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- I had merely redirected an old Wiki article to a new one because the title of old article was wrong. It seems the contents of old article had something in common with the website reffered to above. I did not create that page within or outside Wiki. But now I have rectified this situation and placed relevant information on the talk page. - Vinay Jha 03:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
August 2007
- I have replied to your comments at my talk page. Abecedare 19:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
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Proposed deletion of File:Darbhanga1.gifThe file File:Darbhanga1.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Orphaned file with no obvious value in transferring to Commons
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Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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PrecedentsSince you seem to want to enter into the "Indigenous Aryans" debate, I should point out that the long history of Hindutva attempts to subvert Wikipedia, and the fact that they have not succeeded. There have been two arbitration cases,
The history of the debate is at
- Talk:Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)
- Talk:Indigenous Aryans (India)
- dab (𒁳) 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
original research, I refrain from placing it on Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same. RandomCritic 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
original research. You are also quite mistaken as to the basis of my idea, and it's quite presumptuous of you to claim to know what it's based on without asking me. It has nothing to do with Kashmir at all. RandomCritic 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
original research, I cannot prevent you. But you must ponder over just three citations :(1)"the central point of Jambudvipa ; all the planets revolve round it"(-Monier-Williams). (2)G.Thibat's translation of Varah Mihir : "The sun when at the equinoctial point revolves round so much (3200 yojanas) of the earth from Meru as centre", and (3)Thibaut's personal comment interpreting "Meru as pole". Thibaut accurately translated the text Meru-madhya as "Meru as centre" but wrongly interpreted that pole is the centre of earth or of sun's orbit. If this centre is assumed to be earth's centre at the core, it is just not possible because Meru lies on a continent Jamboodvip (already cited) and a continent cannot be within the earth. Is it my Original Resarch ? You are a rational person ; please do not distort fact. I agree with the idea that Meru forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of all peoples of the earth, and again it is is not my theory, but the finding of scientists. Humans originated around Meru 4 million years ago. Pamir was possibly named ParoMeru (during Alexander's times, Paro was prefixed to mountains in West India, cf. 'Ta Indika') from which ParoMeru >Pameru> Pamir might have been derived. But Wiki will never accept such ideas, although I have no personal objection. Pamir is the origin of many great mountains but not of any major branch of humans : it is highly inhospitable. -Vinay Jha 20:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
]
Notification
The Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions, with the appropriate sections of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures, and with the case decision page before making any further edits to the pages in question. This is a non administrator notification, and will be logged as such on the case decision, pursuant to the conditions of the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions system.
Darkness Shines (talk) 22:44, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
ArbCom elections are now open!Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)]
ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!
Hello, Vinay Jha. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
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Proposed deletion of File:Darbhanga1.gifThe file File:Darbhanga1.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Orphaned file with no obvious value in transferring to Commons
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be
deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.
Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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Coffeeandcrumbs) 23:53, 30 December 2022 (UTC)]
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BantuThere is no possible connection between names in the Bantu languages of East Africa and words or names in Sanskrit. The Bantu languages originated in West Africa, in the region where the state of Cameroon now is, and spread to the east and south. They did not reach East Africa until the middle centuries of the first millennium CE. At no point in their spread did they have contacts with speakers of Indo-Iranian or even Indo-European languages. There were some contacts between East African Bantu languages, especially Swahili (the trade language of the east coast of Africa) and Indo-Iranian languages (particularly Persian) later on, due to trade across the Indian Ocean. The primary exterior influence on the Bantu languages of East Africa after that time was, however, Arabic.
I am afraid I cannot concur with your theory that Mount Meru is based on a mountain in East Africa. My own theory is that it is based upon a high mountain in the western Pamir region which forms a geographical pivot for the dispersal of the Indo-Iranian speaking peoples. However, as I cannot demonstrate this interesting theory except through
"I am unfortunate that you misinterpreted my ideas. Whatever I contributed to Indian astronomy was based upon well established sources. For instance, Mt Meru on equator is not my theory but based upon ancient texts, eg. Surya Siddānta: Bhoogolādhyāya:34-48 (Burgess)."
You mean your interpretation of those texts. Interpretation still constitutes
I stated what I had heard from others about Pamir and and Kashmir long ago; I did not say Kashmir &c was your theory. As far as my contributions to 'Indian Astronomy',I never said my interpretation. Read my contributions again, I have cited 17 references in just one section 'Merucentricism' and if you pay attention to facts cited you will find that I can manage hundreds of additional citations for whatever I have stated there. Still you call it my theory because you want to invoke
Re:Rgveda Dating Controversy
- I have added my reply to your latest comment on my talk page. Abecedare 03:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
about Veda Dating
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning racial motives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions at WP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting a
wiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.
Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forks are allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.
Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :
Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylces and failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycles with totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
]
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gauda article, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to Brahmin communities.
May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit:
When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]
No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
Havyaka
Good start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compounds were stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compounds because all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktam and
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha,
If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm 2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice V R Krishna Iyer (click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights.
VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
]
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Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj.
My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards
Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia.
VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.
Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following :
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422
VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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DatingVinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid, the reason I feel the same is because, not all the 4 vedas are very much inline. That is not all say the same. So, it is quiet possible that there should have been disregards about issues and it is probably changed. Again two different Yajur Vedas. Again it is quiet possible that 1 sect of Hindu Pandits hear a part of the Version and the other Hindu Pandits heard the other remaining parts of the Yajur Veda.)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 10:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)about Veda Dating
Questions asked to Vinay Jha
Vinayji, I am not a scholar as you are. Kindly let me the know following, so I have a better perception on all these matters with regards to the dating of the Vedas.
From what I've recently studied, I come to know the following.
- The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)
- The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions.
- During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone.
So, what are all the
- current findings based on??
- what are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same.
- which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune. BalanceRestored 07:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)]
- You have asked intricate questions, and even summarised answer will be lengthy, which I am here providing :
- (I have once referred to my own research in the following , but whatever I have stated there is based upon facts and sources and I have not even mentioned the findings of my own research. I have no intention to publish my research anywhere.)
- (1)Question : "The Vedas are possibly changed. (With regards to it's authenticity there's noting very solid)". Answer : The Vedas were written down for the first time at the end of first millenium AD, when scholars anticipated a decrease in the willingness to preserve the Vedas as Shruti alone. But the content of all the Vedas had been exactly fixed during the Vedic period itself by means of ANUKRAMANIKĀ which listed all verses in proper order. ANUKRAMANIKĀ cannot be challenged as far as their authenticity is concerned; they are referenced in ancient texts. Hence if you have read somewhere that the "The Vedas are possibly changed", the author is certainly distorting facts so as to push some personal agenda or hypothesis.
- (2)Question :"The meaning of words that we interpret today could be changed, with regards to certain words today, and what used to before could be different. That means, we could be misinterpreting the words and hence arriving at wrong conclusions." Answer : Meaning change within short spans. In Sanskrit, sambhrānta means a 'completely confused or mad person', but in Hindi it means 'a cultured and respected person'. In English, 'delight' originally meany 'away from light' which gave rise to the modern meaning of 'sensory pleasure' because 'enlight-enment required austerities which were disliked by the philistine majority in real life. Hence, the only proper means to get the meaning of any ancient or modern text is its proper context and milieu. Mahābhārata contains verses which lie side by side but were composed with a mutual difference of millenia. Such verses can be properly recognized and interpreted only by judging them against the social-econonomic-political-religious milieu to which their content might belong.
- (3) Question : "During the course of time, rivers have disappeared. So, manuscripts, writing on rocks should have also gone." Answer : Few rivers disappear totally. Sarasvati is the sole exception among major rivers. But the major problem of alluvial regions is that these plains are formed by alluviua brought by rivers which constantly shift courses as a result of their own silts and destroy sites. It is not possible to excavate more than one thousand years of continuous settlement in the Gangetic valley (an average, based upon examination of excavation reports of Archaeological Survey of India). We normally find ancient remains of Buddhist period only at those sites which had beed abandoned around 600 AD (end of Second Urbaisation in India). Most of settlements in Gangetic valley have unbroken continuity, and therefore everything before nearly 1000 AD lies submerged in groundwater. Only 30 layers at Mohenjodaro could be excavated, 39 lie submerged, although Mohenjodaro is away from river and lies in a region of scanty rainfall. Same is the case with most of the ancient sites of Sumer and Egypt also. Gangetic valley becomes almost a sea during monsoons when groundwater level also rises. Hence, it does not show ancient remains, although all ancient texts refer to it as the nucleus of India's population. Mostly, summarised reports of excavations are misleading because they state that a particular site yielded 'XYZ-items' during 'ABC-period', but fail to mention that groundwater prevented further excavations; hence, historians relying upon secondary sources assume that this site did not exist before 'ABC-period'. Personal examination of excavation reports of a sufficiently large number of sites has convinced me that an overwhelming majority of historians are not ready to invest enough time and labour in getting to the truth and are only interested in mass production of research papers and books by quoting each other; this method is a shortcut to gain academic recognition. Heavy rains and groundwater has destroyed almost the whole prehistory of Central Africa where mankind evolved, as well as of Gangetic Valley which produced a vast literature whose archaological context has nearly (not totally) vanished. Sumer, Egypt, Harappa are dry areas, hence remains were preserved even in riparian belts. There are C-14 dated findings at many sites in the Gangetic Vally which prove settlements nearabout or even prior to 3000 BCE, but mainstream historians explain away such findings as exceptions or results of imagined earthquakes and do not even mention them in books and journals because of a fear of backlash from the Aryan Invasion Theorists. Opinions of topmost archaelogists who carry out these excavations do not find a mention in 'mainstream' textbooks. Scientific examination of human remains in Europe and India has proven that no migration took place either way after 3000 BCE. Hence, even if any migration occurred, it must have happened before 3000 BCE. Linear-B has demolished the linguistic foundation on whose basis Rgvedic dating of 1500 BCE was postulated (explained below). But there is a strong "mainstream" lobby which refuses to listen anything and resorts to personal attacks, abuses, etc. instead of discussing the problems in a neutral and scholarly manner, and brands every critic as an obscurantist or a lunatic. If you prepare a list of places, rivers, states, towns, etc. mentioned in the Rgveda from primary source (taking help from secondary sources but with caution), you will also be branded as a Hindutva mystic, and experts like Witzel will blacklist you for conducting such a researches, because a thorough and neutral research demolishes the theories which they have have preached all along. See the threats DAB has issued to me (under ' Precedents' on my talk page) as a result of certain points I raised concerning the dating of Rgveda in the Talk:Rgveda.
- (4)Question : "So, what are all the current findings based on?? ". Answer : Current findings ('opinions' will be a better word instead of 'findings') regarding the dating of Rgveda are based on A. Kaegi's ideas in Germany, who was a historian in 19th century and not a linguist. Max Müller popularised this dating in the name of 'linguistic evidence'. I also believed in these views, till I studied the great German masterpieces on Indo-European linguistics. Facts were meticulouslu gathered and analysed, but mostly, facts were suppressed in the name of "academic consensus". I am giving an instance. According to tree model in Indo-Europeanism, European languages were divided into two great branches : North (Slavo-Germanic) and South (Kelt-Italic-Greek). Both these branches showed greater affinities to Sanskrit than to each other. A natural conclusion was that India was the homeland. But India was a non-white and slave country. Hence, Central Asia was declared to be the homeland, although Central Asia had not yielded any trace of either linguistic or archaeological connection with IE family in 19-th century. Genuine voices were drowned in the name of consensus among Indo-Europeanists. It was a heyday for German nationalism. A few decades later, one linguistic affinity was discovered between Keltic and Teutonic, and the former Tree model was instantly with a Ring Model, in which India got a place at the far eastern periphery and the centre of this ring lied somewhere around Slovakia. This model is being followed even today. A single linguistic affinity between Keltic and Teutonic was sufficient for deducing such important conclusions ! Unfortunately, historical linguistics is a highly technical subject and there are hardly any genuine experts today. Most of the 'experts' are making a mockery of the field. Descriptive Linguistics has made great theoretical and empirical advances in the 20th century, but whenever its scientific methods are used for IE, a great hue and cry is raised agaist 'invasions by lunatics, obscurantists,etc'. It took me 12 years of painstaking research along the principles of modern linguistics to get to the truth, which I decided not to publish, because it was a vast and technical work which few will understand and many will abuse. I did not even make a fair copy out of my rough versions (I have no plan to put my findings in Wiki hence DAB should nor cry out OR/NOR, because I decided over a decade ago that I will not publish my work). If you want proof of the fact that the method of 19th century linguists was unscientific, read the initial chapter of Leonard Bloomfield's famous textbook 'Language'. Unfortunately, he criticised the method of his predecessors in short but instead of showing a new path he asked linguists to leave this field and himself repeated the conclusions of old linguists in his book ! This is the "mainstram" of DAB, and it is not a fault of DAB.
- (5)Question : "What are the instruments used to figure out the dating, so that I can study the precision of the same." Answer : Chief reasons behind dating the Rgveda to 1500-1200 BC were never clearly stated by any principal linguist, but it was based upon following premises :(1) Rgvedic community was assumed to be largely pastoral (forgetting the fact that an overwhelming majority of Brahmanas despised urban life till modern times, when Permanent Settlement of Lord Cornwallis destroyed the very basis of their life), (2) earlist historically attestable event of Europe was the Battle of Troy, which was fought by those Greeks who could be placed at par with the pastoral Vedic people in level of material culture, (3) Rgveda belonged to same stock to which Greek belonged, and therefore the bulk of Rgveda must have belonged to cir.1200 BC. This line of reasoning was apparently reasonable and convincing, and was adopted by a majority of educated Indians as well.
- In 1952, Ventris (cf. above for reliable reference) deciphered Linear-B which proved that Mycenaenian Greeks enjoyed developed civic life upto 1450 BC. Hence, pastoral predecessors of these Greeks must have existed around 2000 BC. But there was a developed urban culture in Indus Valley around 2000 BC. Hence Rgveda had to be placed well before the beginings of urbanisation in the Indus Valley, ie, before 3000 BC. This date was unacceptable to Eurocentricists. Hence, 1500-1200 BC is being publicised as an established linguistic fact and all attempts to investigate this question is being dogmatically opposed.
- (6)Question : "which copies of the Veda are currently there at Bhandarkar pune." Answer :"There are manuscripts outside Bhandarkar Institute also, and all the extant manuscripts of RV in the world together with explanatory notes have been published by Vaidika Samshodana Mandala of Pune (it has been reprinted in France as well). See Talk:Svadhyaya for details. -Vinay Jha 09:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Dab deleting discussion at talk pages is correct
- You will need to write your views at my talk page, or your own. I've add your talk page in my watch list, so, when ever you will make a change to your talk page, I will know about the same.dab (𒁳) 13:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]
Signing
Blocked indefinitely
Your emailI received your email, and all issues of disagreements between you and other editors (which I haven't taken a look at) aside, I find your assigning
racialmotives to editors you are in dispute with to be unworthy of you, if not outright despicable.
If you decide to request an unblock, you can see the instructions atWP:LEGAL. FYI the block review request will be handled by an independent administrator, and not Moreschi. Abecedare 16:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)]CommentHi Vinay, I recently appealed that you be given a second chance after your leagal threat, and even posted an unblock request on your behalf. However the first edits you made after being unblocked were:
- Reverted Dab's correct edit which (1) consolidated all the dating refs in one place and (2) made sure that the lead matched the article.
- Placed a talk page comment which was both assumed bad faith and attacked a user rather than address the content (example: "which shows he is really not interested in studying the sources and is befooling everyone in Wiki by writing falsely sourced articles to impress others with his dab-ness", "Had DAB read Max Maxmüller ...", as well as this edit)]
Such tendentious behaviour is not well regarded on wikipedia, and I am afraid that if you don't mend your actions they will sooner-or-later lead to you being blocked from editing here. I therefore advice you to revert your edit on Rigveda and edit your remarks on the talk page. I hope I will not have to regret having spoken up for you. Regards. Abecedare 20:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- indeed. your behaviour is deteriorating. You refuse to listen to friendly advice, you are incapable of going back on your actions, and you still fail to respect the purpose and rules of Wikipedia. In short, your behaviour is that of a spoilt child that for once didn't get its way. I don't have time or motivation to prance around with you like that, and you will have no joy, and no effect on Wikipedia if you don't reconsider your approach. dab (𒁳) 13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
I have replied to your message on my talk page.
You may also wish to consider getting awiki-mentor who you can turn to for advice regarding wikipedia policies and style. Cheers. Abecedare 15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)]
A requestVinay, your knowledge and contributions to various articles is certainly welcome. As are educated comments about the subjects on the talk pages. I havent examined all your accusations about dab (you havent given the relevant diffs, for starters), but even if I were to take your word for it, I think its time that you came out of your dab fixation. If you feel that something that dab has written is not right, by all means place a {{
WP:NPOV, we will modify the prose so as to give due weight to both POVs. It is really just as simple as that. Especially for things like etymology etc., (whether its rc or rch or rcha or rchcha or whatever), it should be really easy to decide once we see the sources and read what they say. If there is still any ambiguity or disagreement about how things are worded, you can go for a "Request for comment" or informally request active editors for their opinions.Also another way to go about things is, create new articles instead of trying to add your content straightaway to existing articles. For example, you said that you wanted to write about existing manuscripts, commentaries etc of the RigVeda (I request that you do it for all vedic/sanskrit texts). So instead of trying to weave it into the Rigveda article straightaway, create a suitably titled new article. Write whatever you want there and add your citations. Once that is done, it should be relatively easy for us to import a
content forksare allowed, POV forks are not allowed per Ps and Gs. A POV fork is where you pick your POV and write all about your POV.Yes.. I know that some of the things on wp dont make sense all the time, but that is the way it is. Even if Panini.. why Panini, even if Veda Vyasa himself were to edit wikipedia, he would have to cite his sources!
As for your block, I spoke in your defence because I really think that you were wronged (still feel that way.. I still feel that well meaning new editors should be warned before being dealt blocks). I recognise you as a 'well meaning' newbie though you do seem to be having some trouble understanding wikipedia as a concept. It is normal for newbies to be confused about several things around here and I am sure you will learn fast. Until then, please calm down and go a little slow because sometimes trying to do too much too fast can also be our undoing. More later. Regards. Sarvagnya 20:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Wiki Books
In Reply
- Daily Dose of Abuses
- Reply : What one will do if someone makes it a policy to call him silly, insane ,crack, incapable of reason, having mediaeval mindset, etc almost everyday ? Cf. my previous talk on Talk:Rgveda, where I had refrained from retorting to any of his abuses and requested him to not to use Wiki pages for such effusions and use my email if he wants to abuse me. I hoped he will calm down. In return, he declared a decision of biting and applied it in Hindism (Edit Summary) by calling me silly. DAB's performance as an editor also suffers on account of these things, and my time is wasted too. Do you think I relish a futile discussion with a person whom I hoped will help me in Wiki ? In the society I live in, even calling a person by his first name (e.g., Vinay) is held to be an insult; only elders (relatives only) do so. I know there are good people in Wiki and that is why I an still here. I know you feelings and it is not necessary to answer me. Regards. -Vinay Jha 17:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Email
Re:Indian astronomy
- I am shocked that after repeated requests not to rewrite things without outside sources, you have provided an article text that is nearly completely void of references, and qualifies as original research. As a reminder, wikipedia is not after truth, but verifiability. --Rocksanddirt 01:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
- Put the references into the text of the article. That is what everyone is asking you to do. I don't have the references, I havn't read any of the historical documents that these articles are about, and I don't really care about them. When I looked earlier the was not a single reference in the first two paragraphs of the article and there likely should have been several. PUT THEM IN PLEASE! --Rocksanddirt 07:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- Rocksanddirt is shocked because he rests his opinion upon those of others without reading my contribution 'Merucentric Astronomy' in Indian astronomy which was well referenced. See my answer on Talk:Indian astronomy.--Vinay Jha 07:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vinay Jha (talk • contribs).
regarding warnings and dab and such
Your recent edits
- I always sign properly but the link never comes up. I even asked for help, but no one knows the reason. I have to manually type the code of signature, which I omit on my own talk page. Here again, I am signing properly but the link will not come. I am helpless. --Vinay Jha 07:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
are you trying to say, you are unable to type "~~~~" or click on the
dab (𒁳) 11:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]- did you go to dab (𒁳) 11:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)]
I had posted the following message to DAB's talk page, which he deleted ; hence I put it here, which is a reply to DAB's remarks above :Cool a bit !
When I failed to open my account in my name ,I requested an admin and he helped me, but the help came too late because I had opened an account in another name by then. This admin created my account as I requested, but too late. Now I had two accounts. I requested him to cancel the wrong name ( which was working well, together with sign). He responded with a delay, In the meantime, I requested you to delete the wrong user account. You answered by turning me into a sockpuppet. Do you remember ? The other admin helped me out of this situation, for which I was not responsible. But after that, by signature never works properly. Now you are throwing sarcastic remarks about my ability of handling computers.
You are making a fuss about building an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia is a great job, made by dedicated team of scholars. Had you any serious interest in encyclopedia, you would have devoted your energies in scholarly works or in impartial administration. You are too impatient and dictatorial, which wastes half of your own time over useless controversies which might have been avoided had you not pushed your ego in administration. I had requested IAF not to waste his time over you, but you also provoke others unnecessarily, because you imagine everyoue from India is ideologically motivated. Even a good advice is answered by an abuse. I left Surya Siddhanta. Then left Rgveda, just to get rid of you. Now you drove me out of Indian astronomy. Was I putting Hinduism or Indocentricism there ? I put 17 secondary and 16 sources in a section which was removed without a discussion, with abuses (from you). You know nothing about these subjects, but keep on poking your nose in between. Now you are teaching me software, forgetting that the problem in my user account was deliberately caused by you when I had asked for help. -Vinay Jha Talk 12:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Final warning
- Thank you for improving Wikipedia by citing your sources recently. Impressive work. Moreschi Talk 11:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
To DABYou deleted my post to your talk page and then I got above warning. Do as you like. I do not care. Even a good advice to be cool and friendly to everyone created an adverse effect ! Do you know the etymology of Bachmann ? I will not tell you, because you will call it my POV , OR, etc , and again abuse me. Your abuses do not harm me. Abuse me as much as you like, I will NEVER abuse you or anyone else. You wasted your years stydying linguistics, even a well intentioned message sounds hostile to you ! Now you wanted to scrap Indian astronomy ! Do you think my existence depends upon these articles ? You should change your eating habits for having a cool temperament and friendly attitude to other human beings. -Vinay Jha Talk 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Utkala Brahmin
Yuga
- There are lot of articles those are linking to Hindu Time Cycles . It is a technical subject and do not distort it. -Vinay Jha 16:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Your article BalanceΩrestored Talk 17:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.Hindu Time Cycles has been renamed, not removed. All the matter exists. -Vinay_Jha 17:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help. BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- I've read the talk page BalanceΩrestored Talk 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of Jyotisha and History of astronomy. But some persons, who have no interest in nor any knowledge of Indian astronomy insist on putting Hindu Time Cycles under units of measurements (which was intended for time, weights, measures, etc, and advised me to leave editing this tpoic. It happens everywhere in Wiki. Wiki needs secondary sources, which is being interpreted as total disregard of primary knowledge. Those who have never touched the Vedas or Indian astronomical texts decide what should be there. It cannot be cured, and Wiki will always face such problems, and we will have to work with such editors, often tolerating insults from ignorant persons who pose as experts. -Vinay_Jha 10:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Yes,there is confusion. Hindu Time Cycles is a branch of
- I've read the talk page
- Yes, it does remain, but the old article on units is now predominantly Hindu Time Cycles. If you need it corrected let me know. It's fine, I know you are aware of the same. I am working on something else today. Do let me know, if you need any help.
- I will keep all my rough work at my soapbox (temp page for rough work), once you think the text is right we can change the same.
- Your article
TimeYou committed three sins:
- You created Hindu Time Cylcesand failed to mark it for deletion
- You created Hindu Time Cycleswith totally unnecessary capitalisation in the title
- worst, you copy&pasted Hindu units of measurement as it is for the moment and discuss in its talk page any possible move or split of the article. -- RHaworth 17:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- See my answer on your talk page. -WP:MOVE and if you have any difficulty in understanding it, feel free to ask questions at wikipedia's help desk. Abecedare 18:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)]
- Move failed
- DaGizza appended a merge tag to a new article Maithil BrāhamanaTwo questions:
- I think WP:NAME. Are you ok with such a move ?
- The Maithil initially talked about Maithil people while now after your edits it talks only about Maithil brahmins. Is that correct, i.e. are all Maithil people brahmins ?]
Abecedare 19:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
- Maithil brahmins is a good name.
- Maithil brahmins constitute a distint branch of Panch-Gaud which includes all the native brahmins of North India (esp. from Indus to Kosi, later Bengal, Assam and Orissa too). But Maithil Brāhamana to Maithil Brahmin.
- Thanks for correcting the lead of Maithil to differentiate it from Maithil Brahmin. It would be good to wikify the page and add some references.
- Cheers. Abecedare 20:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DYK
On Utkala brahmin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.Well done Vinay. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent article! We need more such amazing contributions relating to Indian history and culture. Have a great day. Panch-Gaudaarticle, which you can link, so you don't have to explain it every single time.
Also, sorry about the confusion created from my Wikibreak notice. At the moment, I should be on a Wikibreak because I have fairly important exams coming soon. Furthermore, if you my edits lately, they are quite minor. I don't currently have the time to write articles. Regards GizzaDiscuss © 10:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
well doneYou are making great progress now, Vinay. Thanks for your contributions to
Brahmin communities.May I suggest the following points for formatting Sanskrit: When giving Sanskrit in Devanagari, your preferred way of formatting is this:
:{{lang|sa|कर्णाटकाश्च तैलंगा द्राविडा महाराष्ट्रकाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|गुर्जराश्चेति पञ्चैव द्राविडा विन्ध्यदक्षिणे ॥}}
:{{lang|sa|सारस्वताः कान्यकुब्जा गौडा उत्कलमैथिलाः ।}}
:{{lang|sa|पन्चगौडा इति ख्याता विन्ध्स्योत्तरवासिनः ॥}}
note usage of the {{
dab (𒁳) 06:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)]No, I'm not
DYK
On Shakadvipi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.--Carabinieri 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Reply
HavyakaGood start
Mahābhāṣya
- My answers to Buddhipriya
- Wikipedians start with a stub and then gradually expand it. Both Sanskrit compoundswere stubs before I touched them. You reverted my unsourced edits in stubs but did not touch unsourced edits of others !
- Whatever I added can be found in school textbooks. But I am not going to add sources to Sanskrit compoundsbecause all its matter is already elsewhere in Wikipedia. If you really want to convert it into a genuine article, fetch some grammar textbooks and find references, instead of wasting time in edit wars or asking me to do all the work myself. Do some positive work, you are quite capable of that.
- If I find there are serious readers of Mahābhāshya, I will devote more time to it. It is a difficult work and I fear we should not devote much time to it, at least now.
- I had hoped you will help me in sourcing a lot of articles, because sourcing requires time. Instead of reverting, add facts tag, otherwise I can respond only by gradually reducing my activity in Wiki, because I hate fighting.
- Even one's elders should not call a person by his/her first name, unless being closely related. In Wiki everyone calls me by my first name. It is disgusting, and I cannot prevent it. I should not have used my real name. I am changing my sign now. I had earlier imagined that Wikipedians are elderly people because youngsters should not edit an encyclopedia. -Mr Jha 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
South Asian wikipedias
- btw, your work on articles pertaining to different aspects of Mithila is very commendable!--Eukesh 18:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I am finding some of the people here in Nepal by myself. We dont need many people at the beginning and once the wikipedia grows, community forms by itself. You can contact me at eukeshranjit at yahoo dot com for correspondance. Once we have about 5 dedicated people, we can start working for Maithili edition. Thank you.--Eukesh 19:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: Ancient Africa
Ramana Maharshi ArticleV Jha, I appreciate your comments on my talk page, which are reasonable. My apologies for a lengthy reply but I want to convey some things that may be helpful. The information available now in English in the West on Sri Ramana and what he actually taught today is far more extensive than back in the early 1970s when some misconceptions were presented as fact. At that time, criticism that westerners did not generally understand Sri Ramana was probably justified, and even today, many in the West claim to be in his lineage or his followers while clearly distorting his life and teachings. Of particular concern is the misconceptions around what Sri Ramana meant by self-enquiry, which was usually presented as a kind of mental or verbal exercise which is exactly what Sri Ramana did not consider anything but preliminary. Some of this is due to inherent difficulties in translating Tamil into English. Today, however, more westerners are experienced in subtle matters and less wedded to semitic POVs, and less inclined to consider Indians primitive, naive and superstitious. Despite many comments I see on Wikipedia from our Indian brothers about what "whites" do not understand about many of the Hindu practices, that is not always the case. And, today there is enough information out there now to present an accurate picture of Sri Ramana, which is my only goal for the Wikipedia article, not to turn it into a propaganda piece. Even the interesting discovery that Sri Ramana did not at age 16 intellectually understand what had happened at first, and considered at first that he might have been possessed in some way (possession by gods is not unknown in India), is worth pointing out because it illustrates that he taught from his own knowledge, not from religious studies, even if it offends someone's fantasies about Sri Ramana.
The article was in sorry shape when I first developed the basic outline for making the biography and practice of self-enquiry accurate that other editors have adapted to complete it. One energetic editor from India in particular developed much of what you see now after my comments about the problems with the structure and accuracy of the article. I was thus frankly taken aback that Bharatveer repeatedly accused me of removing references to Sri Ramana being a Hindu when that was not the case, I was trying to resolve the conflict by clarifying the issue further. Hinduism is such a broad religion with many schools and dharmic interpretations that merely defining someone as a Hindu, even if true, does not tell us much, without further elaboration, even though Hindu dharma does include the possibility that Hinduism is ultimately self-transcending at Mukta. After his repeated reversions, I put my objections on the talk page so that when the time came, I could get support to make the necessary corrections. Bharatveer's latest edit is a good one, so I will try and implement your advice and boldly make the necessary changes. If you have suggestions, just put them on the talk page.
I have emailed David Godman in India a number of times over the years, and despite his many projects, he responds quickly and replies without arrogance and hostility. I think you probably have never emailed him and are thus judging him too harshly. None of us are claiming to be Jnanis, and the point he is making is somewhat minor and technical as I have said, one reason why I prefer clarification reflecting his comments to removing "Hindu". I think he is too busy working on his next book to pay much attention to this latest dispute, and would be dismayed to learn that his suggestions were being interpreted as anti-Hindu and were inflaming unseemly and anti-dharmic religious, ethnic and racial tensions. I urge you to try emailing him directly at [email protected], and express your concerns about how you and others interpret what he wrote.
I notice from your comments above and other experiences that in the East it is more common to consider use of someone's first name alone unless close friends or related disrespectful, one uses the last name and/or a title first. But here in the West, for example, after a preliminary introduction, it is common for adults of all ages in less formal settings to refer to one more casually by their first name. For example, we might often even simply refer to Ramana when among westerners, while in the East that would be seen as disrespectful and Sri Ramana or Ramana Maharshi would be used (since there are many non-western editors here I try and avoid Ramana). As you prefer, I have not and will not use your first name alone, and editors should honor your request. However, please understand that in most cases if someone did so no offense was met, it was more likely a cross-cultural misunderstanding. This kind of inadvertant discord seems to happen some on Wikipedia where we do not meet face to face but bring cultural assumptions into the dialogue. --Dseer 21:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Took your kind advice and made bold changes to introduction to stick with fact and resolve misunderstandings about Sri Ramana, his teachings, and relation to Hinduism. --Dseer 01:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Romila Thapar
- Prior to this, I have not paid attention to Romila Thapar but have read some of Frawley's material regarding AIT. I am not in a position to evaluate all the criticism of Thapur, while I can do that with Wendy Doniger, Kripal et al because their interpretations of religious texts are obviously biased. I agree AIT seems to be modeled after historical experiences more to the West (Europe, Middle East) where events more like that occurred, while I think the river civiliztions in India probably go back over 10,000 years and that basides the root linguistic relations between languages there was lots of migration and trade along the route that went through that area. It appears that Thapar has much academic support in the West, probably outweighing the criticism, so I think the most productive approach, which I would support, is to create a controvery section in the Thapar article where these issues like the points in the article you sent me can be mentioned to provide more balance to the article.--Dseer 19:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
GaneshaHi Vinay. Sorry for replying after so much time (lack of net access and also because I am very busy nowadays). Besides, all your emails were going into my junk folder (don't have a clue why).
I'm afraid I can't agree that Ganesha was worshipped duing Vedic times, because the Vedas donot have mention of him. Gods like Ganesha, Shiva Parvathi etc. arose during the Puranic preriod whcih roughly coincided with the late Vedantic period and ealy Shramana period (around the same time that Buddha and Jainism arose).
Besides, the biggest nutcrackers are not the Europeans but Indians like AnishShah. For example, look at [4] edit of his, which Bakaman keeps correcting.Indian_Air_Force (IAF) 08:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- These are from Vedas
- Sri Rudram contains
- Namakam,
- Chamakam,
- Manyu Suktam,
- Purusha Suktam,
- Sri Suktamand
- Mantra Pushpam along with
- Laghunyasam
- BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Verses on Ganapati
- gaNAnAn.h tvA gaNapatiM havAmahe kavim kavInAm- upamashravastamaM | jyeshhTharAjaM brahmaNAn.h brahmaNaspata A naH shR^iNvannUtibhiH sIda sAdanaM || (Rg Veda 2.23.1)
- ni shhu sIda gaNapate gaNeshhu tvAmAhurvipratamaM kavInAM | na R^ite tvat.h kriyate kinchanAre mahAmarkaM maghavan.h chitramarcha || (Rg Veda 10.112.9)
- Panchayatana puja
- Rg Veda Mandala 8, sukta 81, R^ik's 1-9,
- Mandala 10 sukta 112 R^ik's 9-10,
- and Mandala 2, sukta 23, R^ik 1.BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)]
- Obstacles are getting removed. I've got some nice resources that's got a lot of information.
- Loving Ganesa: Hinduism's Endearing Elephant Faced God By Sadguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami | Loving Ganesa (Online book)
- Verses on Ganapati
Name
Jyotish
RequestDear Mr. Jha, If you have the time, I would be grateful if you could look in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Brahmin and dozens of related articles. Thank you, Relata refero (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Look at [[5]] for my answer.Thanks - VJha (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Kosi riverDear Mr Jha,
This article which was earlier enlarged by me but has been substantially mutilated by Sangam Mulmi and others and the revised version does not even accept the contribution of the earlier authors in the history column. External references have been missed (numbers are very much there but there are no refereces or are not shown). There is no continuity of references. Also, one of the pictures which I uploaded on Kosi's shifting courses does not open eventhough the title of the photo is displayed in red colour.The shifting course picture shows exactly what has happaned to the river over centuries of shifting river course. What has happened? Can some one tell me what is happening? And where is the disambaguated article enlarged by me? There is not even mention of my contribution eventhoguh substantial part of my artcle (90% of it) has been utilised.Since you habe been a serious contributor on wikipages can you clarify please. --Nvvchar (talk) 18:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
March 2014 Hello, I'm
2002 Gujarat violence may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.- List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
- of 29 muslim dargahs, 20 mosques, and 17 Hindu temples and churches 9real numbers may be more). The tomb of Malik Asin was bulldozed, the [[Muhafiz Khan Mosque]] was also destroyed. The tomb of
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow
talk) 16:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]2002 Gujarat ViolenceI presented bothe sides of the story with neutral sources, but it seems you have no time to check these sources and carried out a wholesale reverting of my edits. Here is one example : this article gave a wrong reference to Krishna Iyer which is a playback singer, I corrected it and linked it to Justice
V R Krishna Iyer(click this link to read that Wikipedia article, which I never edited, it states Mr Iyer was a minister in communist government in Kerala). But you reverted my edit, alleging my edit was unsourced. Is my linking to already existing Wikipedia article "unsourced"? Wikipedia is not for pushing communist POVs, neutrality and sourcing is my concern as well as Wikipedia's. I hope you will understand that I am not "pushing" any POV but presenting both sides of the coin as well as presenting court verdict which was missing from the article. Nevertheless, if someone insists on pushing the communist POV by hiding the communist link of Krishna Iyer, I will not take the matter to Wikipedia Tribunal, because I have no time for useless fights. VJha (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)- Don't make assumptions; I checked every one of your sources. If you want a detailed list of reasons, here you go:
- 1) The point about the Banerjee commission (the one begun by Lalu Yadav) was already covered above, and therefore unnecessary.
- 2) The point about the Nanavati-Shah commission was also already covered. You need to read the section before making additions.
- 3) The point about 31 people being convicted is necessary, and I have no objections to your adding it; just don't link it to the unnecessary stuff above, and please make it grammatical.
- 4) The point about the "Kar Seva" programs is not sourced. Also, even if you find a source for that, please don't mess with existing content in order to add it.
- 5) The content you are adding about the army and curfew is alright, but you need to watch for repetition; there are many cases where you are basically duplicating sentences. I can help you with this, if you so wish.
- 6) The point about Iyer needs a source. Also, it is not very necessary; the CCT has its own POV, and that is made explicit; how does the fact that he is a communist change that? We already know the CCT is very anti-Modi.
- 7) The random insertion of "31 convicted Muslims" is very unnecessary.
- I have reverted you once more. If you take these issues into account, I will be happy to make your insertions work. Thank you. Vanamonde93 (talk)
20:24, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him : ANEW and get you blocked. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)]
- you are reverting wholesale, without taking into account your aforementioned views. Secomdly, what you view as "obvious" is not so obvious for all readers. Wikipedia articles should be for everyone and not only for those who are familiar with India. I think you will devote some time to improve this article. If you revert it again, I will not interfere. What you call repetitions is due to improper placements of sentences, and you you may improve it instead of wholesale reverting. VJha (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
- 'sigh' As I explained, the "wholesale" revert was because you majorly messed up standard WP formatting. As you might have noticed, I have now added the court verdict. I will work on the rest soon. Cheers. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
- I read your comments to me. Why you say I did not give a source for Krishna Iyer's communist past ? I gave the link to pre-existing Wikipedia article on him :
Notification
The
Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions, with the appropriate sections of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures, and with the case decision page before making any further edits to the pages in question. This is a non administrator notification, and will be logged as such on the case decision, pursuant to the conditions of the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions system.Darkness Shines (talk) 22:44, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
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You appear to be eligible to vote in the currentreview the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)]ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!Hello, Vinay Jha. Voting in the
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Proposed deletion of File:Darbhanga1.gif
The file File:Darbhanga1.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Orphaned file with no obvious value in transferring to Commons
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be
deleted for any of several reasons.You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the
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{{proposed deletion/dated files}}will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2020 (UTC)Some people keep vandalizing the Surya Siddhanta pageHi Vinay,
I found your name on the history of Surya Siddhanta page. I realised that much of your work was removed by Dbachmann and his team, who are extremely prejudice against the ancient Indian antiquity.
I have recently added the dating of Surya Siddhanta on the basis of publications by Anil Narayanan (former ISRO scientist), Rupa Bhaty, Nilesh Oak and Sudarshan Bhardwaj. My sections were highly referenced but yet removed by this teams of vandalizers, who are contacting each other to come remove my sections of BC era dating of Surya Siddhanta and are as it seems like ganging up to do so which is not just unethical but against wikipedia policy and is vandalism. I hope you get this message and provide support to the additon of scientific and empirically proved results onto the wiki page of Surya Siddhanta.
regards Rahul
All my contributions to Wikipedia are deliberately deleted or distorted by a handful of persons. The most astonishing vandalization was deletion of well-referencerd factual information about Maithil Brahmnins by a user having fake name on the false plea that such details are unwanted on Wikipedia, although the deleted information was of one page approximately. I think they want to delete all brahmins from Earth but can delete only information about brahmins. All India-related articles are controlled by an anti_Hindu team. They wasted months on useless debated merely to harass me so that I leave Wikipedia. Finding no one interested in facts, I left editing Wikipedia years ago. Now I open Wikipedia only when someone quotes its false articles on my forum. Todat, I am editing Wikipedia article on Adhik Maas because its FALSE definition of Adhik Maas as "Purushottam Maas" was cited on my forum. The person who added this lie in Wikipedia falsely cited Vasishtha Siddhanta. Such persons deliberately degrade Wikipedia. VJha (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Gaud BrahminsHi there,
Could you elaborate more on the page
Gauda Brahmins? I tried to find a historical account on them and their ideology, but can't find anything on the internet.Much appreciated! Rolly212724 (talk) 03:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia is infested with vandals who relish in deleting valuable information. I stopped contributing to such articles after my edits in Maithil Brahmins were vandalised (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maithil_Brahmin&type=revision&diff=560587461&oldid=560587307). The article on Gauda Brahmins was also vandalised. For instance, one can see the following : https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauda_Brahmins&type=revision&diff=770895494&oldid=770895422 VJha (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
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