Talk:Ang Lee

OK, NO Taiwanese would EVER be want to be called Chinese. The status quo is that they ARE a fully independent nation, but must be discreet in mentioning this fact when dealing with China. Never call a Taiwanese Chinese. Their culture is COMPLETELY different. He is Taiwanese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.85.101 (talk) 05:39, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, the guy is a US Citizen. Second, this is not the place for your POV on "TW vs CN" politics. You can find it easily on Wikipedia and I am sure there are lots of people who want to share their POVs with you. Third, please sign your comment. TheAsianGURU (talk) 11:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to Google, the phrase "ethnic Chinese" is not often used to describe this director. The term "Taiwanese" is used more often, since he was born in Taiwan.[1] [2] Shawnc 10:34, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm curious. does anyone know where ang lee stands on the whole independence/reunification/status quo thing with regards to China?

• He's not a politician, why bother? 71.108.234.91 19:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some Taiwanese don't even consider themselves Chinese. Some even consider themselves Japanese more than anything (e.g. Lee Dung-hui, ex-prez of Taiwan).
    • That's true. I've met some Taiwaneses who were offended when I referred them as Chinese. These people wanted Taiwan to be an independent country and they wanted to distant themselves from anything Chinese. Since it is unclear what Ang Lee's political views are, it is safer to call him Asian or Taiwanese. Kowloonese 02:05, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • And what does Lee Dung-hui has to do with Ang Lee? They share the same last name? :-) As an international film maker, Lee wouldn't really want to be involved with all these political stuff. Additionally this piece of information is really not relavent, he's not a politician, and we surely don't want to put something that's gonna bring him troubles right :-) (Lee was born when Taiwan is under Japanese ruling, can't really argue that someone born in an American British colony to indentify himself as British huh?) Kenimaru 23:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • The example is to point out that calling Ang Lee a "Taiwanese" can never be wrong, but calling him "Chinese" is dependent on his politcal view. Do you want to take chance when writing an encyclopedia article? Kowloonese 09:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • That's exactly the point. Granted that calling him a "Taiwanese" is always correct, there are individuals that would feel offended by that, and went ahead and make him a "Chinese," see my last edit on the main article. Personally I would just drop this and remove the adj. to avoid further senseless vandalism, it's sad that I'm forced to do this, but that's just how I dealt with things like these. Kenimaru 20:52, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

221.127.194.86 please stop chaging "Asian" to "Chinese." Fact is, Asian includes Chinese, and he IS the first Asian to win such award. If you want to be specific, he is from Taiwan, thus Taiwanese is the most accurate description. It's very obvious what ethnicity that Ang Lee belongs to, the significance is more about that he's a non-American/European. Of course, discussion is welcome. Kenimaru 06:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. saying he is asian does not mean that he is japanese, either, as someone tried to say in reverting earlier.--B.U. Football For Life|Talk 06:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• following the thread, I guess Taiwanese and Asian will both appropriate adjective for him, but maybe not Chinese. For Taiwanese, I think no one will be offened by be recognized as a person from their birthplace. Also, as to Asian, I think it is broad adjective and nothing more than that. For Chinese, the issue has expressd clearly in above thread.

This is a relevant article: Ang Lee's Chinese roots fuel cultural controversy in Taiwan--Jiang 07:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From article: He was a Visiting Fellow at Dartmouth College in 2001 where he premiered Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon This is confusing or incorrect since the film premiered in 2000. The clause has been removed until reference is cited. Shawnc 11:04, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NNDB.com has a good shot of the man, which might be included in this article.

You may have notice that

• Oppose. I think this is the sort of change that should have been discussed on the talk page before making the move. At any rate, I think it should remain "Ang Lee" since that is how he is widely known to worldwide audiences (particularly those who would be reading an English-language encyclopedia). -- MisterHand 12:21, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Doesn't anyone respect Chinese culture here? You may like to revert my move if you wish. --Ter

• Oppose I respect Chinese culture, however his most common English name is Ang Lee and redirecting to Lee Ang would be confusing for most readers. Do what is right on Chinese Wikipedia, but Ang Lee should be the norm here. And if I'm wrong, good luck changing all the other articles on Chinese people in Wikipedia -- CHANLORD ^[T]/_[C] 12:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I somehow respect this decision, I will revert the move. --
    e Ong 13:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Done, reverted back to Ang Lee. --

e Ong 13:10, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply

]

• Oppose Ang Lee lives in the US and he uses his name as Ang Lee, not Lee Ang. Many Chinese Americans do not follow the Chinese culture in the US because it is not worth the effort to educate a quarter billion Americans who are only aware of the First name-Last name convention. I will bet that 9 out of 10 US highschool kids would address Mao ZeDong as Mr. Zedong. Chinese people who live here in the US need to go with the flow. Mr. Lee is no exception. Kowloonese 01:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Hey, as another 13 year old, lemme chime in. I'm full-blood American, 1/2 Irish, 1/2 Italian with a percentage point of German. Why I think we see Mao Zedong and Li Bai is because they were known that way. Anyone looking up the winner for Best Director will recognize "Ang Lee" but not necessarily "Lee Ang." It's just what they are most commonly referred to, yet I note that culture is also important. Sean (talk || contribs| esperanza)) 02:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So you're 101% human? S. Ugarte 21:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • Well, European languages usually puts the last name in the later, but Asian languages usually put the family name first. You can do the same thing in English if you want to put the last name first, but I believe the format is "Last_Name (comma) First_Name," so it would be, say, "Jordan, Micheal." In the case of Yao Ming, his last name is Yao, and I don't think people would mess that up. 71.108.234.91 19:36, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Please refer to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese): "The encyclopedia should reference the name more familar to most English readers." So if someone is known to "Ang Lee", we use Ang Lee, or vice versa. "Ang Lee" is more common by 40:1, as suggested by Google, so that's the one to use. Shawnc 20:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article could use a lot more bio and a lot more filling out. Presently it is a short blurb with a list. Reboot 08:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Well, Ang Lee had a set back before he start making good films (Pushing Hand), and that he stayed home and raise the kid. There isn't that much to talk about about his bio. There are several Chinese refs down at the bottom, maybe someone would translate that and put it in. 71.108.234.91 19:38, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The template is messed up, someone please fix it, as I am not sure how, thanks. Kenimaru 02:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i would say we should stick with first asian director to win best director. chinese and japanese are subsets of asian. Asian does not imply japanese.--B.U. Football For Life|Talk 06:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Agree. As I've explained, the whole point is that he's the first non-American/European director to win, thus Asian would be a better fit (in contrast to American/European). It's quite obvious that he's Taiwanese and not Japanese, and that's exactly how the Academy introduced him. Kenimaru 06:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I WILL request a LOCK on the page if the person who is changing the content keep REFUSING to discuss about it here. First Asian, by definition, would automatically be the first person of any Asian nationality to win. No one will think Ang Lee is Japanese or Indonesian, as the bio CLEARLY states that he is from Taiwan. I would hate to bring in this, but somehow I think the editing IP, which is from Hong Kong, seems bear political/racial bias in this issue, thus not complying the NPOV policy of Wikipedia. I'm pulling the stats off Google, there are 930 hits for ang lee "first chinese", but 29,600 hits for ang lee "first asian", that's a ratio of 1-to-32, pretty much says it there. Kenimaru 16:36, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Remember that whether he is "first" depends on how you classify him. So what you put in "blank" makes a difference. Say if "blank" were literally blank, then the statement becomes invalid because he is definitely NOT the first director to win. When you change the category from "Chinese director" to "Asian director", will the validity of "first" title changes. If yes, the narrower category should be kept in order to keep "that" title. If no, the broader category should be used because it is better to be the "first" in the universe than be the "first" in your own bedroom. Kowloonese 21:43, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Adding my two cents (in the hope of generating some consensus and ending the edit war). It should be "First Asian" for the reasons stated by Kowloonese. -- MisterHand 22:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Second that, though my stance is already quite clear. Kenimaru 23:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Why not just say he's the first non-white director to win? That's an even more general and impressive achievement. -- ToastyKen 02:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see your point, but what's "white?" Jewish people look white to me, are they white? The other issue is the source, because I haven't seen him being addressed, this way...please help. Kenimaru 10:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Citations are important and should be provided. As per Wikipedia:No original research: "Articles may not contain any unpublished... statements, concepts, ...or any new analysis or synthesis of published data, statements..." Shawnc 21:08, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Though I don't remember the citation, but I remember during an interview, he said himself as a person from Taiwan but not have American citizenship. In the same interview, he added that he is working in U.S. legally by other legal status. I wonder in Wikipedia, when we refer someone as American, which defination we take? Since American could be define in broad way, that can even include many people work in this land but don't have legal status. Last, for a living person, I would prefer to respect his/her opinion on this subject, however, I don't have better citation of how he adress this issue.--75.10.16.75 21:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lee is an US permanent resident for years. Kenimaru 23:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, according to Wikipedia's definition of "American", you have to be a citizen of the USA to be called American. I am wondering is an US permanent resident equivalent to an US citizen? 222.155.47.181 (talk) 10:32, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've extensively rewritten this section, which hopefully reads better now. Three highlights: (a) I've removed "homosexual" (previously "bisexual") from "two Wyoming cowboys." The context is clear enough without either word, which otherwise sounds redundant and (worse) pejorative. (b) I've also moved the sentence on Lee's Best Director award to end of paragraph, which is rhetorically stronger and puts the emphasis on Lee himself. The old version ended with "Brokeback" losing to "Crash" and all the controversies that generated. (c) I've restored the reference to Lee's skills in depicting human emotions, which the last edit removed. It seems to be an important point to me. Your thoughts? swan 05:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I've rewritten the section with two things in mind: (a) The statement that "Crouching Tiger" helped introduce Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige to the West was misleading. They had been known to the West for almost two decades. It's more accurate to say "Crouching Tiger" made it acceptable (and fashionable) for other Chinese directors to make high production-value Wu Xia films for Western audience. (b) Roger Ebert loved "Hulk," calling it one of the two best Superhero films (along with "Spiderman II") of all time. But crowds who consumed the superhero genre probably found the psychological subtext between father and son too complicated or irrelevant. This latter point, however, I hesitated to make explicit in an encyclopia entry. Still, more could be said about "Hulk" imho. swan 06:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

• To Zeus1234: Your edit comment, "Fixed more grammatical errors and bad sentances reintroduced by Skezar after I edited them," is ad hominem. If you compare your old version with my rewrite, you'd notice (a) I've corrected a number of YOUR mistakes; (b) some bad sentences were left over from your edit and were not "reintroduced" by me; and (c) my rewrite was extensive and was in no way based on your version. While I appreciate your correction of my typos, good copyediting does not need attacking someone else to build your own credibility. swan 02:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Is it not worth a comment somewhere to explain why his name in English is Ang when his name in Chinese is apparently An? -- 86.6.5.37 19:31, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Almost all internet sources and English-language media refer to him as as Ang Lee, instead of Li An.--Jerry 22:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Addressing your question requires understanding the options. The first sentence already shows his name in "(Chinese: 李安; pinyin: Lǐ Ān)" forms. What do you propose adding beyond that and which source(s) will you cite? – Conrad T. Pino 17:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When a person comes to the U.S., they can romanize their name any way they want. And since Ang Lee is from Taiwan, they don't use standard pinyin (which would be An). Many people from Taiwan have different romanizations of the exact same character. Apparently, he chose "Ang Lee", so that's that. --Uw badgers (talk) 18:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Came here because I was wondering if anybody had a good explanation for the final /ng/ in Ang Lee's first name. A look at the Cantodict forums (http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?1,108184,112064#msg-112064) shows that it's probably a Minnan Chinese dialect issue (Xiamen Hokkien (廈) has An, like in Mandarin, or [ɔaⁿ], but Chaozhou (潮) and Fuzhou (福) have [aŋ]. And since there's a lot of Min-Chinese spoken in Taiwan it seems a fair guess that its Chaozhou or Fuzhou usage in Ang Lee's case. Hakseng (talk) 16:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The use of the term mainland China implies a geographical extension or relation to the rest of China;therefore a violation of NPOV. --

Still questioning the golden lion reference. The reference (3) doesn't mention this. However, I found [3] which proposes he has won it three times... but I don't know the quality of this reference. --Pearrari (talk) 06:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC) Check the wikipedia Golden Lion page - Also, Zhang Yimou won the Golden Lion twice (at least, I didn't check the whole list), so I think the Golden Lion reference, while not completely wrong, is definitely erroneous. 128.152.20.33 (talk) 16:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

what the hell is this introduction, "Ang Lee (born October 23, 1954) is an Academy Award, two-time Golden Lion, two-time Golden Berlin Bear, seven-time Golden Horse Award, four-time BAFTA, two-time DGA Award, Hong Kong Film Award, five-time Golden Globe, two-time National Board of Review and two-time New York Film Critics Circle winning film director from Taiwan." that seems like a joke, please someone rewrite this introduction. FloydNIN (talk) 20:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Edward Yang's films also showed linguistic diversity. Also those of new-wave Taiwanese filmmakers. – Kaihsu (talk) 21:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not even sure the section in question belongs in Wikipedia or has sufficient relevance. Perhaps it should be deleted (or shortened greatly). Thoughts? Softlavender (talk) 09:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I deleted this section. It was solely about all kinds of Chinese dialects in a couple of Lee's Chinese-language films. This has no relevance to English-language Wikipedia. Not to mention, the section was absurdly long and detailed -- it sounded like it was someone's term paper and Original Research; specifically, that of Allentchang (talk · contribs), 31 October 2006. Softlavender (talk) 03:28, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Linguistic diversity is relevant given that there was major criticism among Chinese audiences of the different accents of the actors in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and that Michelle Yeoh had to give a rebuttal. In addition, it is important for the English audience to know when a movie is not totally in Mandarin/Cantonese. If a movie was mostly in French with some amount of German, that would be important for the non-French and non-German speaking audiences to know in order to appreciate the context of the movie. Often the English subtitles don't inform the audience the difference in the languages/dialects spoken. So please tell me how linguistic facts are not relevant to the English Wikipedia or are we English speakers arrogant and ignorant of other languages/dialects? Allentchang (talk) 00:42, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do we have a better source that says what citizenship he has? I have been having a conversation at User talk:高橋智 with an editor who claims he only has a green card, not US citizenship, and gives Chinese-language sources that support this claim. The sources given in this article are not very great, so I think it would be good to have a more definite answer to this question. Kusma (talk) 00:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese sources are full of POVs & inaccurate claims, some even bordering amusing. I saw one a while back, saying Ang was so "patriotic" that he was "considering" giving up his US Citizenship. The fact is that Ang is a naturalized U.S. citizen and so far, all the refs fit

WP:RS perfectly. I also saw the link that the user's claim was based on. It was dated back in March of 2006, during the time of "Brokeback". All the current refs we have regarding that issue are much more recent. So unless there is a RS saying otherwise, we should go with the current version. TheAsianGURU (talk) 00:31, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply

]

I expected something like that. I was a bit unhappy that most of the sources just mention his citizenship in passing, but I guess they should be good enough. Thank you! Kusma (talk) 18:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Almost all links to the sources regarding this are broken. Only the LA Time source is still working. Since when is newspapers a reliable source? Hipaulshi (talk) 19:34, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As of 2006, he is still a R.O.C. (Taiwanese) Citizen without U.S. Citizenship according to Chinese press in Taiwan. Unless there are newer sources indicated that he's neutralized, I think it's better not to claim he is American. And here's the sources: http://www.appledaily.com.tw/appledaily/article/entertainment/20060311/2459025/ 173.56.24.194 (talk) 06:54, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One of the sources cited on this article is the Los Angeles Times article [4], which is from August 2009, and it states he is a U.S. citizen. There is also an article from the Taiwanese newspaper The China Post from September 2007 [5], also states it.--Filmested (talk) 20:49, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4_6P-lVwYk <-- Ang Lee say himself, he is a chinese(technically what is written on the taiwanese passport), not an american. that he has a green card. http://www.nytimes.com/movies/person/166472/Ang-Lee/biography Akinkhoo (talk) 10:30, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You don't know when he was naturalized. That's video seems to be from either the 2001 (when he was up for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) or 2006 Academy Awards ceremonies' red carpet (when he was up for Brokeback Mountain) (and it can't be the 2013 Academy Awards ceremony when he was up for Life of Pi); while references from Variety, Los Angeles Times, etc. from later periods all stated that he is a U.S. citizen. We go with reputable sources.--Filmested (talk) 23:27, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p9vRrzQ7-U <-- At 23:20 in this video as of Nov. 2016, Ang Lee says (in Chinese) that he is a green card holder and not american citizen. My translation: "...I very much want to tell them (Americans) that I haven't been naturalized and still just a green card holder. ... Afterall, I am from Taiwan. I didn't grow up in America. My appearrance is different from common Americans..." 50.24.73.158 (talk) 07:54, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be plausible to add a part to Ang Lee's profile in which to link to Stewart Lee's joke (and anecdote) about telling Ang Lee the "Don't make me Ang Lee, you wouldn't like me when I'm Ang Lee" joke? 92.2.29.149 (talk) 14:19, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is his wife a molecular biologist or a microbiologist? The article has both. Theshibboleth (talk) 06:16, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

I am an editor for a news agency and was hoping if WIki affiliates or editors could consider labeling Ang Lee's wiki page as a secure source so that it is free from tampering. If this had been a less prominent individual or director, I would not request for this. but he just won the oscars today for best director among others such as spileberg. if spielberg has a protected source, than he needs one as well. Keep in mind that Oscars represents the mainstream film industry in the U.S. In other words, it is the top in the industry just like the NBA is the top in Basketball and NFL top in Football and FIFA World Cup is the top in Men's Soccer as popular mainstream sports.

Thank You Sean Fahey — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.227.207.252 (talk) 21:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This article's opening paragraph has long been fairly stable, that is until very recently (which coincided with the 85th Academy Awards on February 24), in which there has been various changes to the lead section by IP users and newly registered users. Just in the past few days or so, the lead sentence has been changed from "a Taiwanese-born American film director" to the likes of "a Taiwanese-born Chinese film director" [6], "a Chinese-American film director" [7], "a Taiwanese film director, screenwriter and producer of Chinese descent" [8], "a Taiwanese film director" [9] [10] etc...

While I do think the Taiwanese aspect should be emphasized, however, removing or deleting the "American" part is inappropriate and quite erroneous for the following regards:

• Ang Lee is best-known as a filmmaker, and his "film education", unequivocally, came from the United States. He received his schooling in the cinematic art in the States, and without the formative training, he would not become the film director as we known him today. Since being a "filmmaker" is his primary occupation, an American film director is a wholly suitable characterization. Also, to a
  cinephile, a director's craft and aesthetics are of the utmost importance, and it is really what defines him/her. The academic film journal Sense of Cinema [11] gave a great overview of Lee's, in which details tremendous influences of "American iconography" in his works, parallel to his "Eastern" aesthetics. Sense of Cinema also recall similarities between Lee and other great foreign-born American filmmakers of past such as the Austrian-born Billy Wilder
  :

  "Since the first wave of German immigration into Hollywood in the 1930s, many filmmakers have gone from one country to another to live and work. Few, however, have explored the idea of multiculturalism as deeply or inherently as Lee..."

  — Sense of Cinema.