Talk:Hyoscine hydrobromide/Archive 1

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Talk:Hyoscine hydrobromide
Archive 1

Learning inhibition

I haven't got time to write something now, but perhaps scopolamine's effects on learning should be mentioned somewhere?

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=scopolamine+inhibit+learning&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=aacPUbixCuam0QWpiIGIBA&ved=0CC0QgQMwAA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.163.187.119 (talk) 12:22, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Scuba diving

From the section on scuba diving ...Due to its effectiveness,it has become commonly used by scuba divers... Effectiveness at doing what? Joyous 18:59, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

Controlling motion sickness — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.32.220.226 (talk) 05:40, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Hyoscyamine

Hey, there's an article called hyoscyamine. Two articles for exactly the same compound.

AbinoamJr 14:41, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

If you take a look at their structure, you'll find that they're not exactly the same compound. Matt 15:15, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
Chemically, they're not the same...interesting thing, though...cocaine IS. —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by DannyBoy2k (talk • contribs
) 18:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

It was so similar, the description, and the name. Thanks for clarifying -- Abinoam Jr. msg 02:51, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Note about anti sea-sickness use

Experiment Description for: Inflight Salivary Pharmacokinetics of Scopolamine and Dextroamphetamine (DSO 457)

http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/experiment/exp_descrp_pop_up.cfm?exp_id=DSO%20457&string=&current_string=

Scopolamine/dextroamphetamine, a drug combination used to prevent motion sickness, was studied because of its frequent use by crewmembers during flight and its reportedly variable pharmacokinetics and poor bioavailability on the ground. --Charles Gaudette 19:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The drug Dramamine was a mixture of barbiturate and scopolamine, and was used by millions of people over a very long time for motion sickness with relative safety. The use of amphetamine by military fliers is unrelated to the use of scopolamine, but the military necessarily needed to study the effect of the two drugs taken together. The link provided above does not work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.115.31 (talk) 23:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Robbery Drug

Although, for security reasons, he couldn't say where, a relative of mine is in the Coast Guard and they were in port for a couple days in/around Peru and some (many) reported being drugged. Lucky they were in groups of at least 4 so they made it back to their ship OK. But the had the symptoms of this drug. Believed to be an attempt to rob them. This was within the past week. —The preceding

unsigned comment was added by 24.209.114.224 (talk
) 01:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

An anecdotal story from an anonymous source is not helpful here. jrun (talk) 08:34, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

You're right about an anonymous source, anecdotal story. Nonetheless, I found it to be consistent with what I would expect to hear. Although if it were actually a sort of mass hysteria caused by horror stories among them before arriving, I would not be surprised. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrjeffpayne (talk • contribs) 06:51, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Medical use as a tobacco cessation product (Wellplex)

Can someone add a section on this chemical's recent use as one part of a one-time injection that's purported to allow immediate cessation of tobacco use without withdrawal symptoms? The "Wellplex shot" uses scopolamine and atropine, and the "SMART Shot" uses scopolamine and Atarax (and antihistamine). Apparently the treatments aren't yetFDA approved, but doctors are allowed to use them, and they are gaining in popularity. There are hundreds of clinics that offer these treatments as their sole function (see Wellplex). At any rate, there should be some mention of this in the article. Kel - Ex-web.god 07:45, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

This might be a source for it´s use as an antiaddictive:http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/scopolamine/scopolamine_article1.shtml91.97.181.196 (talk) 21:42, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Scopolamine

A use for this drug which is not mentioned, but with which I am familiar, is as a component of the preparations of a patient for electrochemical shock therapy (ECT), which I believe is still being applied. It was injected immedialetly prior to the adminiatration of the ECT, along with at least one other drug, with the goal being to make it harder for the ensuing convulsions to damage the patient.

My goal here is not to edit the offering, but simply to trigger the memory of someone more knowledgeable than I to more fulsomely describe its use - so please feel free to remove this when you do. 74.105.40.154 23:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Moved user signature

This "--Terry Lennox 03:45, 10 October 2007 (UTC)" signature was in the "popular culture" paragraph. Martin | talk • contribs 21:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Truth drug

"The use of scopolamine as a truth drug was investigated in the 1950s by various intelligence agencies, including the CIA as part of Project MKULTRA. Nazi doctor Josef Mengele experimented on scopolamine as an interrogation drug". According to the Josef Mengele article, he did not experiment after 1945, so his "works" predate any 1950's investigations. Rephrasing the paragraph? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.245.226.43 (talk) 20:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Misuse

I find this very hard to believe "Delivery mechanisms include using laced pamphlets and flyers laced with the drug; however, spiked alcoholic drinks are the most common". I am not a chemist, and have no experience with the drug. But there are very few drugs that can cause a serious effect simply though touch. Unless the pamphlets are strongly laced, and then they were to eat something and it's transferred. Which would mean they would need to be followed. Best I can tell, the only source is the timeonline article, which I don't believe would be reliable. DrugBank [1] also lists the drug as Transdermal in 'disc' form. Can someone with more expertise please confirm/deny the possibility of drugging someone through touch, and if not possible remove that part. - xen 03:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

In response to the above... This Documentary talks about how you can simply blow it into someones face and they will be affected. http://www.youtube.com/v/xk0cV6JecV0 -x 02/08

I would like someone with proper expertise to clear this point since I believe it is indeed possible to get poisoned through contact. My source is personal experience. I live in Caracas and was a victim once of a rob attempt with this drug. By the way, most people in Venezuela do not consider the criminal use of "burundanga" to be an urban legend. I know people that have been victims. In my case, the effects of the drug were disorientation and a great difficulty to think clearly. It lasted for about an hour. In the end I also felt a tingling in my hand (the part of my body exposed to the drug).
In the interest of objectivity, if proper confirmation about this topic is not found, I believe the best thing to do is to remove all mention about criminal use from the article. Claiming it is just an "urban legend" is not acceptable either.

Caracas

I just removed the following statement: "Also in Caracas, Venezuela, crime related to burundanga techniques has multiplied in the last years. Targets are easily approached and just with physical contact they administer the drug to the victim. Reports of techniques of administration include wafting the powder to the victim with a puff of air, drugged chewing gum, or even craftily dropping the powder into the collar of a shirt or the front of a woman's low-cut dress. [citation needed]" Since it's been unsourced for more than a year and is probably an urban myth. If sourced it should be placed back. With a proper source of course. JunCTionS 22:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

edit of unreliable sources, fact tags

I have removed unreliable sources like the sobernetwork and newspapers. I have also edited some for more compact format and better presentation or less sensationalist phrasing. Please limit sources to peer reviewed articles and recognized medical texts as of WP:MEDMOS. I also intend to remove the trivia section. This is encyclopedic level of information, and we cannot include every B-movie and soap opera, where Scopolamine was part of the phantasy plot. These materials belong into movie plot discussions and popular blogs, not into encyclopedic medical articles in my opinion. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 06:20, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately my edits have been reverted without discussion, before they could be discussed. Thats a bit too quick, Anthony. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 06:59, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Hyoscine-Pentothal

  • Removed reference to fictional Hyoscine-Pentothal. Such combinations of Hyoscine and barbiturates have been actually used for surgical procedures, actually fairly std mix. Whatever some movie plot made of this is immaterial for a medical encyclopedic entry. We cannot account for every flatulence of any illiterate in Hollywood.
    • Related: Fixed combinations of morphine/scopolamine (e.g. 20mg/0.3mg), Scopolamine/Ephedrine/Eukodal (SEE, also: Scophedal; Eukodal-Knoll is Oxycodone) were commonly used for heavy sedation/pain management on e.g. victims run over by a trolley and w.o. legs, also in excited maniacs in the looney bin. The use of such drugs as "truth drugs" is plausible, like with the rest of the common stash of an anesthesist. But we can't include all fictional stuff here or debunk all fictional stuff here. Its an encyclopedia, not a movie plot thread of some blog. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 03:55, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
  • I restored the hatlink. People need to be told that the popular "24" series gets its facts wrong. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:02, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Don't call me elitist now. But I think an encyclopedia contains the information, which is the agreed best effort to relevant truth at the time. If it is not in there it is bogus or irrelevant. It cannot contain debunk of all idiot/sadist/illiterate phantasies of popular media or their idiot/sadist/illiterate authors, that is not a lasting value, but just mental idiot-trash-food for idiot-trash by idiot-trash. We should make up a Idioto-trasho-pedia for that purpose. Who talks about "24" in five years, who gives a shit? The actors are by then probably in the morgue with a very interesting mixed overdose (Yummie! Gimme some!), as far as I know Hollywood.

The "Encyclopedia Britannica 1911" or the "Brockhaus 1898" are still very readable and valuable sources, I may remind you, when seen in historical context. And they didn't include antics from some stage or some whore house of 1898 either, but a best-effort attempt to contemporary and relevant knowledge. Read a bit in one of them, that you know what an encyclopedia is. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 05:23, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopedia... encyclopedia...? No thanks we don't buy an encyclopedia, we already have a book (bible) and a TV-set. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 05:49, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Sobercircle, Wall Street Journal, date rape, Burundanga

Removed Wall Street journal ref per WP:MEDMOS. This is certainly not a peer reviewed scientific journal, but some idiot journalists at work for sensations. I wouldn't take their financial advice either.

Removed sobercircle date rape burundanga as a ref, per WP:MEDMOS. This is not a peer reviewed article, but some screaming idiocy concocted by a "sober circle", 12-steppers, church people: "Kids, don't do drugs" On danger of being lynched now by a militia of teetotalers: removed. Also contains factual errors (7g of scopolamine; he probably means some plant material), self reports of idiots walking around in a half conscious state, gossip, by unnamed laymen and concerned citizens. Do it in your church group. Its not encyclopedic information.

dagbladet, nyheter: Same argument, some newspaper crap, removed per WP:MEDMOS;

Please don't revert this edit w.o. discussion. I have given the rationale now. 70.137.131.133 (talk) 04:25, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143584/Scopolamine-Powerful-drug-growing-forests-Colombia-ELIMINATES-free-will.html 86.176.49.22 (talk) 13:43, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

i believe you have done the article a disservice by removal of mentioning date rape burundanga - i just watched a TV show where a woman attempted to murder a tourist in Argentina using this drug - thus not only should this "use" be returned to the article but also a list of antidotes to avoid death should be added back into the article in this same section.--68.231.15.56 (talk) 03:55, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Television shows are not usually sources for encyclopedia articles. Sources should be peer reviewed medical journals. Please guys, this is an encyclopedia article on a medication; we need to rigorously apply the rules. 76.111.244.85 (talk) 22:19, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned Comments

Well I watched the VBS documentary & I'd hardly call it 'In Depth' Lucidspacedog 16:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it also used as an anti-emetic? If I recall they even sell skin patches for motion sickness. --LDC

First item in this line of the article: "is also an antiemetic, antivertigo, antispasmodic...". :) -- [[User::Paul Drye|Paul Drye]]

Is there a reason to capitalize Scopolamine Hydrobromide ?
Kpjas

Isn't this article a bit of a hard read for a person without a medical background? Wouldn't it be appropriate to translate and expand some of the jargon within the article to reduce the amount of link-following one has to do to understand it? --Robert Merkel

Agreed. It's typical of science-related pages on Wikipedia, which inevitably degrade into little more than jargon and are therefore of no value to actual human readers. It's probably Wilikpedia's biggest fail point right now.

I removed the claim that it is used in medicine to induce amnesia. The fact that it induces amnesia is mentioned in the article, but I don't think that's ever a goal of treatment. AxelBoldt 15:43 27 May 2003 (UTC)

One situation where amnesia is a goal of treatment is during surgery or other painful procedures. You do not want to be conscious when you're getting slit open and your organs wiggled around. Scopolamine has been almost completely superceded by other drugs for the purpose but it is still one of its uses.Porkchopmcmoose 02:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Continued discussion

Scopolamine=devils breath?

That is a rather suspicious trivial name and an unreferenced recent anon addition, do you have a reference?

I would rather prefer if the reference is NOT some investigative sensational journalism report or youtube crap, filmed by some rednecks in their back yard. Seems to lack notability, with a strong hint of superstition. Have found no serious ref for that.

Sorry, this seems to be another case of the huge rabid mexican rat, sold as a dog, and of Ramirez being found in the trunk of Gonzales, stabbed with a screwdriver. Belongs more into a Redneck-o-pedia I guess. Removed until reliable ref. 70.137.173.82 (talk) 08:49, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I just did a quick google search when I restored it, and found this. I am sure there are no serious scholarly reports that say "scopolamine is real devil's breath" but just based on that quick search I believed the usage was wide enough to merit inclusion. I am sure the origins of the word are very superstitious, but that does not mean it is/was not in wide-spread use. The fact that scopolamine is not really devil's breath certainly does not mean it is not a relatively common trivial name. After all, mercury is certainly NOT silver, but I doubt you would argue that the name quicksilver should be removed from the article even though it is not commonly used today. The Seeker 4 Talk 13:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

As this is a medical article, or at least is meant to become one, I would prefer if we limit ourselves to scholarly sources, rather than the 9-part series of sensation reporters of vbs-TV, where this term seems to originate. (per WP:MEDMOS read that) The comparison with quicksilver is not completely fair, as this is a name which has been used in a long tradition, reaching into pre-scientific times. In German mercury officially is named "Quecksilber", thats not a slang but the real name in high-German , so old is this name. This seems not to be the case with devils breath, the "devils breath" seems to be of very recent origin, approx 2007, and was unheard of before these "reports", which are 50% hype, because otherwise it would be boring and without commercial value for the TV channel. So to say part of the animation menu for tourists, and 50% related to the rabid huge mexican rat, which got sold as a dog, and Gonzales having the stabbed Ramirez in the trunk, probably after narcotizing him with devils breath. In a halfway scientific description I would prefer to not allow reporters to create new language. Thats why I deleted it. Remember that Google brings up every amount of hype, about everything, but in particular about sex and drugs and Rock'n'Roll and Redneck-o-pedia materials, and maybe some Hollywood antics. To include it in an encyclopedic text would really mean that we align ourselves with the least common denominator. Its merely entertaining, but material for another type of collection with a lower expectation. 70.137.173.82 (talk) 20:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

That is fine. I am not emotionally committed to having that phrase in the article. I simply happened to see an alternative name removed by an IP and did a quick Google search. That search turned up many hits that, at the time I thought indicated it is a relatively common trivial name, so thought it should be included in the article if it is a term that any significant portion of the population is familiar with. I personally am not familiar with this usage, and was not familiar with the fact that it is a neologism. That being the case, I have no problem letting the removal of the term stand, as I accept your explanation that it is a non-notable neologism. The Seeker 4 Talk 20:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

There is a whole VICE Documentary about this drug (aka "The Devil's Breath" aka barundaga) as for the "mindless zombie" thing: it makes you more succeptable to the power/whim of suggestion (usually by the person who used it on you) Andy_Howard (talk) 23:21, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

What is the Wikipedia policy concerning "common names" (or un-common ones) of drugs? I suppose a similar question could be raised about whether the article about Marijuana should mention that it's also called "weed"? Of course, that name has been in use a long time (I assume), like the name "quicksilver" for Mercury. Jimw338 (talk) 03:57, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Criminal use

I would like someone with proper expertise to clarify this point since I believe it is indeed possible to get poisoned through contact. My source is personal experience. I live in Caracas and was a victim once of a rob attempt with this drug. By the way, most people in Venezuela do not consider the criminal use of "burundanga" to be an urban legend. I know people that have been victims. In my case, the effects of the drug were disorientation and a great difficulty to think clearly. It lasted for about an hour. In the end I also felt a tingling in my hand (the part of my body exposed to the drug).

In the interest of objectivity, if proper confirmation about this topic is not found, I believe the best thing to do is to remove all mention about criminal use from the article. Claiming it is just an "urban legend" is not acceptable either for an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.30.244 (talk) 22:20, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Scopolamine Use in 1929 in Paris

According to Janet Flanner (Genêt), in her book Paris was Yesterday (1925-1939), which is a collection of her New Yorker items and published by Viking in 1972 and later in paperback by Penguin in 1979, Prince Yussupoff was accused of poisoning, with scopolamine, the family of Princess Demidoff at regular tea parties, producing,

"on her noble family, and all their tea-drinking friends -- a state of complete stupidity which none of these aristocrats found strange. Memory vanished, general conversation lagged, the two children dropped beind in their studies and became unable to add two and two without exciting comment from their proud parents. Casual guests popping in for a le five-o'clock were led back to their limousines in a state of complete imbecility; and an aunt, the Duchesse de Luynes, fell lat on her face after having sipped a cup of weak Orange Pekoe ('which was abnormal for Her Grace').
from page 51 of the Penguin edition

--rchrd (talk) 19:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Irritable bowel syndrome, hyoscine

I removed this reference. It turns out that the given study (review article in BMJ) claims use of "hyoscine". But following their references it turns out that their references were using and talking about "hyoscine butylbromide" or "scopolamine butylbromide", which is the quaternary base Butylscopolaminium bromide (namely

Butylscopolamine
bromide) and has no central effect! The cited study as well as their sources used "scopolamine" as a synonym for "scopolamine butylbromide" also, claiming they would be the same, obviously unaware that these are two different drugs, as the quaternary base has no central effect and is indeed not scopolamine! They obviously thought the butylbromide is just another salt of scopolamine. I have to ask myself where MDs learn chemistry. This is horrible. See article
Butylscopolamine
, as in "Buscopan". So the ref as well as THEIR cited sources are wrong! 70.137.141.96 (talk) 13:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

See also here for example of their raw material for meta analysis. They call hyoscine butylbromide "hyoscine"

http://www.labdominguez.com.ar/informes/nulite/articulo.pdf

As you can see they talk about "hyoscine 30mg" and "hyoscine 40mg" in Table 1. This would result at least in one week of delirium if they really had used hyoscine, more likely in a coma followed by one week of delirium. 70.137.141.96 (talk) 14:21, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

They (BMJ review article) are citing ref 18, 19 and 8 in above "articulo" link.

Ritchie, Nigam and Schafer. See for yourself. One copies from the other. Science by copy and paste. 70.137.141.96 (talk) 14:40, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Good catch. FYI, there is a separate article for the derivative here:
Butylscopolamine 76.111.244.85 (talk
) 22:34, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Biosynthesis in plants

Would be nice if someone could check the text for errors and flaws. Some parts may be still difficult to read. Additional references are also necessary and the image needs a check-up as well. --Crenim (talk) 16:35, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Move unreferenced claims here

I have moved most of the unreferenced claims to here at the talk page for future reference, so it can possibly be added back later with references. Much of it rubbish, some is substantially true with added personal

WP:RSMED
. I do agree with the post above that the "In Popular Culture" section is irrelevant and only detracts from the encyclopedic nature of the article.

Scopolamine exerts its effects by acting as a competitive antagonist at

parasympathetic
nervous system for details of this physiology.) ... dose is only 330 micrograms (µg) per day. In rare cases, unusual reactions to ordinary doses of scopolamine have occurred including confusion, agitation, rambling speech, hallucinations, paranoid behaviors, and delusions.
History
One of the earlier alkaloids isolated from plant sources scopolamine has been in use in its purified forms (such as various salts including hydrochloride, hydrobromide, hydroiodide and sulfate), since its isolation by the German scientist Albert Ladenburg in 1880, and as various preparations from its plant-based form since antiquity and perhaps pre-historic times. Following the description of the structure and activity of scopolamine by Ladenburg, the search for synthetic analogues of and methods for total synthesis of scopolamine and/or atropine in the 1930s and 1940s resulted in the discovery of diphenhydramine, an early antihistamine and the prototype of its chemical subclass of these drugs, and pethidine, the first fully synthetic opioid analgesic, known as Dolatin and Demerol amongst many other trade names.

Scopolamine was used in conjunction with morphine, oxycodone, or other opioids from before 1900 up into the 1960s to put mothers in labor into a kind of "twilight sleep". The analgesia from scopolamine plus a strong opioid is deep enough to allow higher doses to be used as a form of anaesthesia.

Scopolamine mixed with oxycodone (Eukodal), and ephedrine was marketed by Merck as SEE (from the German initials of the ingredients) and Scophedal starting in 1928, and the mixture is sometimes mixed up on site on rare occasions in the area of its greatest historical usage, namely Germany and Central Europe.

Scopolamine was also one of the active ingredients in

Tylenol PM, NyQuil
, etc.

The oral, ophthalmic and intravenous forms have shorter half-lives and are usually found in the form scopolamine hydrobromide (for example in Scopace, soluble 0.4 mg tablets or Donnatal).

Scopolamine has a number of uses in medicine:

Scopolamine is an ingredient of

dionine hydrochloride, 10 mg morphine sulphate, and 125 µg scopolamine
hydrobromide per cc. Some sources give the recipe as 1/4 grain dionine, 1/6 grain morphine, and ~29/810 grain of scopolamine; in some cases the salts of morphine and dionine may differ.
Nausea
Its use as an antiemetic in the form of an transdermal patch (lpplied behind the external ear).
Ophthalmic
The drug is used in eye drops to induce
iridocyclitis
, etc.
Memory research
Because of its anticholinergic effects, scopolamine has been shown to prevent the activation of
medial temporal lobe structures for novel stimuli during spatial memory
tasks. It has also been shown to impair memory in humans to mimic the cognitive deficits found in Alzheimer's Dementia.

Currently, scopolamine is being investigated for its possible usefulness alone or in conjunction with other drugs in treating nicotine addiction.[citation needed] The mechanism by which it mitigates withdrawal symptoms is different from that of clonidine meaning that the two drugs can be used together without duplicating or canceling out the effects of each other.[citation needed]

  • amnesic
    effect.
  • It can be used as a depressant of the central nervous system, and was formerly used as a bedtime sedative.
  • In
    otolaryngology
    it is used to dry the upper airway (anti-sialogogue action) prior to instrumentation of the airway.
  • In Colombia a plant admixture containing scopolamine called Burundanga has been used shamanically for decades.[citation needed]


Adverse effects
The common side effects are related to the anticholinergic effect on

parasympathetic postsynaptic receptors: dry mouth, throat and nasal passages in overdose cases progressing to impaired speech, thirst, blurred vision and sensitivity to light, constipation, difficulty urinating and tachycardia. Other effects of overdose include flushing and fever, as well as excitement, restlessness, hallucinations, or delirium
. These side effects are commonly observed with oral or parenteral uses of the drug and generally not with topical ophthalmic use.

Use in scuba diving to prevent

Mydriatics can precipitate an attack of glaucoma
in susceptible patients, so the medication should be used with extra caution among divers who intend to go below 50 feet.
Drug interactions
When combined with
Twilight Sleep, also the name of a proprietary drug available in the past in ampoules of injectable fluid containing morphine sulfate and scopolamine hydrobromide (and in some cases the phenothiazine anti-nauseants prochlorperazine or promethazine as a third ingredient). Although originally used in obstetrics, it is now considered dangerous for that purpose for both mother and baby.[citation needed
]

The use of medical scopolamine/opioid combination preparations for euphoria is uncommon but does exist and can be seen in conjunction with opioid use. Doses of scopolamine by itself near the therapeutic range create euphoria and anxiolysis of anticholinergic origin, similar to that of some first-generation antihistamines and similar drugs.[citation needed]

Another separate group of users prefer dangerously high doses, especially in the form of datura preparations, for the deliriant and hallucinogenic effects. The hallucinations produced by scopolamine, in common with other potent anticholinergics, are especially real-seeming, with many users reporting hallucinations such as spiders crawling on walls and ceilings, especially in the dark. While some users find this pleasant, often the experience is not one that the user would want to repeat. An overdose of scopolamine is also exceedingly unpleasant physically, and can be fatal, unlike the effect of other more commonly used hallucinogens. For these reasons, naturally occurring anticholinergics are rarely used for recreational purposes.

Scopolamine in transdermal, oral, sublingual, and injectable formulations can produce a cholinergic rebound effect when high doses are stopped. This is the opposite of scopolamine's therapeutic effects: sweating, runny nose, abdominal cramps, nausea, vomiting, vertigo, dizziness, irritability, and diarrhea. Psychological dependence is also possible when the drug is taken for its tranquilizing effects.[citation needed]

However, scopolamine as a

Project MKULTRA
.

However, in actual fact, the quantity of toxin diffusing through the skin barrier after one short contact of the fingers with an object is much too small to be readily absorbed in the body and to have any significant effect.
Witchcraft and sorcery
Scopolamine was one of the active principles in many of the "flying ointments" used by witches, sorcerers and fellow travellers of many countries and cultures from millennia ago ostensibly down to the late 19th century or even to the present day. Scopolamine and related tropanes contributed both to the flying sensations and hallucinations sought by users of these compounds. Potions, solids of various types, and other forms were also used in some cases.

These ointments could contain any number of ingredients with belladonna, henbane, and other plants of the belladonna and datura families being present almost invariably; they were applied to large areas of the skin with the objective being to see the Gods or spirits, and/or be transported to the

Sabbat
.

The hallucinations, sensation of flying, often a rapid increase in libido, and other characteristic effects of this practice are largely attributable to the CNS and peripheral effects of scopolamine and other active drugs present in the ointments such as atropine, hyoscyamine, mandragorine, scopoline, solanine, optical isomers of scopolamine and other tropane alkaloids.

The inclusion of belladonna/datura type plants amongst the dozens of ingredients in the Haitian zombie drug is thought by some authorities to be at least somewhat likely, although scopolamine-bearing plant matter is almost certainly not the main active ingredient, which has been theorised to possibly be Tetrodotoxin or a related substance.


--Tom Hulse (talk) 06:08, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

I was provided with this link over YouTube, from the user fraserChapman, under a video regarding the drug. It is about an Australian report (in a US library) into a specific case involving a man who showed up at an emergency room with many of the symptoms mentioned above. The same report mentions a variety of other cases with varying symptoms, and also appears to cite to these cases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2747390/ --86.5.226.63 (talk) 10:34, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I would think you should feel to carefully restore some of the above info if you are directly sourcing individual sentences & paragraphs if they match the kind of source you provided. Do be careful to recognize that a source like this is talking sometimes about interactions that would be common to most people; and then sometimes this source is talking about their own case study that was more of a unique reaction to normal commercial over-the-counter doses, like an alergic reaction that would not be expected for everyone. --Tom Hulse (talk) 21:04, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Criminal use and urban legends

This claim that: "Vice.com had an investigative report done and interviewed many people on this subject. They found it to be true. [21][22][23]" Is completely unsubstantiated. Not one citation there leads to anything but a debunking of the urban legend. If this line was some commentary on

Vice Magazine's "reportage," this isn't the place for it. o0drogue0o 09:26, 14 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by O0drogue0o (talk • contribs
)

I didn't look at the references in the article, but there is a 35 minute documentary by Vice concerning this. "World's Scariest Drug". — al-Shimoni (talk) 17:18, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, but the documentary appears quite convincing. I've done an edit concerning it, but it was undone because of the quality of the source (Vice from the USA and the Daily Mail from the UK). So, I'll just put a request here to find better sources of these 'zombifying' effects of the drug. Maybe a university study, or a non-Western source, like a Columbian or Thai university, as that is where the reports actually originate, and universities are considered more reliable. Most Western sources take the cyclical pattern of Snopes, which I personally don't regard as reliable. in the way they conduct some of their studies. (edit: I found this, which I also mentioned above https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2747390/ ) --86.5.226.63 (talk) 04:20, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
If this is real then there must be columbian police reports, columbian news etcetera that can confirm this legend. Seems real to me, but of course Vice is investigative journalism for an audience, no hard evidence, however they did talk to police about it. 184.163.43.21 (talk) 02:29, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I had just added a paragraph to the "criminal use" section and it was undone. I don't understand why the vice documentary cannot be cited as reference material for any information I add to this section. What exactly is wrong with this documentary that makes it discreditable?Torvum (talk) 20:18, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

See wikileaks, search scopolamine interogation, search scopolamine metamemory. The later is a double blind study using scopolamine. Search erowid for trip report on 7mg scopolamine where the subject was barely able to crawl, at first was walking into walks and lost all motor coordination.

This is an article about a medicine. Please see
WP:MEDRS. This entire article has ongoing and significant factual errors as the result of reliance on non-medical and non-credible sources. 76.111.244.85 (talk
) 22:28, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Weasel words? What nonsense!

Why has someone hung the "weasel words" tag on this article? I see absolutely not one shred of justification for it. If it was once justified and now is not, it should be removed forthwith.

I consider this to be a fine case of an epidemic phenomenon on Wikipedia: instead of fixing what's wrong, people hang a prejudicial and derogatory tag on other people's work and waltz happily away. Poihths (talk) 16:59, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

You could remove the tag yourself you know, rather than expecting others to do so... GimliDotNet (Speak to me,Stuff I've done) 18:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, that one was my fault. I didn't add the tag, but I should have removed it when I took out all that unreferenced junk including many weasel phrases. It wasn't an easy fix that someone could have just done instead of just waltzing away. The article really needed a complete rewrite, and I just took the shortcut of removing everything unreferenced. Still took plenty of time. Poihths, the article still needs lots of fixing from when that weasel tag you were complaining about was added, perhaps you would like to help? Several of the claims I removed to the talk page above look like they might be solid info that just needs a reference to add back into the article. Feel free to 'fix what's wrong without happily waltzing away'.  :) ----Tom Hulse (talk) 03:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

"Biosynthesis of scopolamine in plants" illustration

I have copied these comments by User: ‎Swfowkes out of the article here to the talk page where they belong. Perhaps someone (smarter than me) can help with his concerns: (User:Tom Hulse 20:50, October 24, 2012‎)

It looks like there is an error in the above illustration. The phenylacetate moiety labeled as "phenylacetate" is drawn as phenylproprionate. There is an extra carbon atom in the ester linkage that should not be there if phenylacetate is the source moiety. This extra carbon is missing in the following structure(s), which could be because of a rearrangement of the carbon skeleton. Would somebody check this?
I would also suggest that the metabolic-pathway "convention" is to identify source moieties under the reaction arrow, which avoids the mistaken implication that 1) "acetoacetate" is actually an acetoacetate radical when it is actually a 2-oxopropane (beta-ketopropane) radical or that phenylacetate is a phenylacetate radical when it isn't. I think the blue coloring does a good job of separating the old and new parts of the carbon skeleton, but in neither of these cases are these simple condensation reactions (i.e., reactions defined by the joining of two chemical groups with the elimination of a water molecule, like alcohol + acid >> ester, or acid + amine >> amide). User:Swfowkes 19:13, October 24, 2012‎

I am removing the image since no one has disputed this claim of inaccuracy; and also because the image file history shows a record of errors, so it is probably more of an interpretation of the cited source than a faithful reproduction. If anyone has the source cited at the image file, please do check it for us. Thanks! --Tom Hulse (talk) 19:04, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Missing Adverse Effects and Drug Interactions

The lack of information about adverse effects and drug interactions is a serious issue with this article. I see that such existing information was removed for lack of proper references. As a reader looking for more information about the safe use of this drug, I hope that someone can fill in this area soon. Stcw (talk) 21:19, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Questions about Scopolamine

a) This sounds like a dangerous drug but nowhere in this article does it say that it is a controlled substance in the U.S. Is this an accidental omission or can any doctor prescribe this? The latter seems unlikely, given the details of the article, but it does explicitly say it's illegal.

b) There was a TV show where an individual was "dosed" with scopolamine and instructed to kill another person. The doctor figure on the program explained that people under the influence were highly (entirely?) suggestible and could be told to kill a stranger, kill them and have no memory of the event. I know that TV writers, especially of crime shows, aren't known for their accuracy but is this even a plausible scenario? From what I read in the article, the amount of scopolamine required for this kind of reaction would be so high that there would be disabling side effects. Liz Read! Talk! 21:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)


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