Talk:Saadi Shirazi

The recent addition to the article stating that Saadi is "also estimated to be inclined to Shia" is not based on academic sources, and (in my view) the sources quoted do not give any convincing evidence. I think this addition should be removed. Kanjuzi (talk) 04:39, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Bani Adam poem seems to me to have too many translations, some of them of doubtful quality. In fact there are six. It distorts the article by giving too much weight to this one poem, famous though it is. I suggest that one or at the most two translations are enough. But which ones? I suggest that the first one is quite sufficient. Kanjuzi (talk) 13:20, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No actually it’s good for people who don’t understand somethings so you can not say that do you understand it

86.20.170.43 (talk) 19:46, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An anonymous editor has changed the Bani Adam poem from bani ādam a'zāye yek peykar and (The sons of Adam are members of one body) to the alternative version bani ādam a'zāye yekdigar and (The sons of Adam are members of one another). Both versions are found in printed books. Which is correct and which should we keep in the article? The carpet which hangs in the United Nations, the 100,000-rial banknote issued by the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Ganjoor Persian literature website, the Persian Wikipedia article on this poem, and the well-known edition of Mohammad Ali Foroughi all have the version yek digar, which seems to be the most accepted one in Iran. The Persian Wikipedia article quotes a scholar, Habib Yaghmai, who notes that all the early manuscripts, dating to AH 717 (AD 1317/8) and 724 (AD 1324) and later, have yekdigar. The [website of the Central Bank] quotes a scholar Professor Kavus Hasanli of the University of Shiraz as saying that although yek peykar is more regular and nearer to Saadi's language, he believes that, since yekdigar is the only form found in the early manuscripts, yekdigar is the original.

On the other hand, a contributor to the notes on the Ganjoor website claims that the verse is based on a hadith: "People are like one body: if a member complains, the rest of the body falls into a fever", supporting the reading yek peykar.

At any rate if yekdigar is quoted here, the English translation should match it. Kanjuzi (talk) 20:35, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This photograph (top right lozenge) clearly shows that the carpet itself has yekdigar, despite the fact that Mohammad Javad Zarif, former ambassador to the United Nations, (photographed here standing in front of the carpet) in the Persian news article quotes the poem with yek peykar. Kanjuzi (talk) 06:20, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the "Legacy and poetic style" section, the third paragraph begins "Chief among these works...", but there are no "works" mentioned previously. JohnBuuseue (talk) 19:07, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Did Coldplay write their song-title "Bani Adam" in Persian or Arabic script? It looks like Arabic to me, because of the two dots under the y, which are not used in Persian. Kanjuzi (talk) 05:07, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the best-known quotation from Saadi in the West are the lines said to have been pronounced by Mehmet II after the fall of Byzantium, The spider weaves the curtains in the palace of the Caesars/the owl calls the watches in the towers of Afrasiab. I do not know the source, perhaps somebody else does? The lines are quoted by Philip Mansel in the preface to his book about Istanbul and also by Vikram Chandra in his book Sacred Games. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 17:32, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The reader who wrote "Before we present the poem, it is important to note ..." is writing in a non-factual style and his/her change was rightly deleted. However, the fact that this poem reflects a hadith shouldn't have been deleted. The grounds on which it was deleted ("Unsourced claim. It's probably a translation of a Middle Persian poem") are rather surprising, since this assertion is itself unsourced, and no such Middle Persian poem exists; whereas the hadith does indeed have a source. Even more puzzling is the reason given by another editor who deleted mention of the hadith from the article Bani Adam, on the grounds that "Islam should not be mixed with Persian poetry". Kanjuzi (talk) 12:34, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The hadith citation is not a source that supports that theory, it's simple a verse by Bukhari stating some theological stuff he believes in - he lived centuries before Saadi, how would he know that Saadi got inspiration from him? --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:57, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The hadith has been deleted again on the grounds that the hadith in question is contained in a collection of hadiths by Bukhari, who lived centuries before Saadi. That is not in dispute. It also cannot be disputed that the hadith and the poem express very similar ideas and that many people, both Iranian and foreign, believe that Saadi was drawing on this hadith as a source (I have added a citation for this). It is also clear from Franklin Lewis's article on the Golestan in the Encyclopaedia Iranica that Saadi frequently quotes from the Qor'an or the hadiths, in some 40 places, according to Lewis. The hadith therefore seems to me to be very relevant to the poem. Kanjuzi (talk) 14:14, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So basically you dont have any academic source that supports that claim? You cant use your own theories as a source. A cleric (who is from a family of Holocaust deniers [1]) is not an academic scholar. Find someone with an actual education

HistoryofIran (talk)

[2]: Spennāg mēnōy dām hamāg ēk-gōhr hēnd. *** ud aweštābišn ī hannām ī ēk tan ān ī hamāg ān tan bawēd. Translation: Those created by Spanta Maynu are parts of one body *** Hurting one part is hurting the whole body Shawarsh (talk) 14:55, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The claim that we are making is not that Saadi took his material from a hadith, but merely that some people believe that he took it from a hadith. As well as Ahmad Khomeini, we could add the scholars Saeed Nafisi, who produced an edition of the Golestan, and Dr Mohammad Khazaeli, who stated that the similarity between the poem and the hadith was a good reason for supporting the yek-peykar variant. – By the way, Ahmad Khomeini is not related in any way by family to the Khameneis as you imply. – Since the hadith in question is no longer in the article, here it is again, so that readers can judge for themselves, and also compare it with the Middle Persian poem which Shawarsh has kindly added above: "The example of the believers (Muslims) in their affection, mercy, and compassion for each other is that of a body. When any limb aches, the rest of the body reacts with sleeplessness and fever." Kanjuzi (talk) 10:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran: Hi, this picture: Thumb is an art work of an sculpture by Abolhassan Sadighi and is highly famous. This sculpture now exists in Shiraz.

See this picture is more about Golestan and less about Saadi. Introducing picture should be a picture about only one concept, and should not contain any adjacent or similar concepts as much as we can. I really think that this change should be applied and only picture of Saadi should be placed there. Thanks, Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 12:16, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, the picture you added is blurry and less aesthetically pleasing than that of the long standing image. Moreover, it will unfortunately probably get deleted soon due to no FOP in Iran. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:32, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran I took that picture by my mobile phone, and the sculpture is open for taking picture. Aside from blurry problem, do you really think that "it get deleted soon due to no FOP"? The sculpture exists in a square in Shiraz. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 12:37, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes unfortunately. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:39, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]