User talk:Marchjuly/Archives/2018/June

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Thank you for the reference page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria) for a company logo usage, but I'm still unclear. Do I need to get the logo from a printed source or digital source like a pdf and not from the website? SherryOcean (talk) 14:38, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi SherryOcean. Is this just a general question or does it have to do with a specific edit I made?

If it's a gerneal question, then an online source (preferably an official website) should be fine. Basically, you should try and provide as much information as possible about the logo (see

WP:NFCC#4

, and a logo posted online somewhere (especially by the original copyright holder) would meet that criterion.

If your question has to do with a specific logo, perhaps one that I might've removed from a page, then I can provide a more specific answer if I know which logo you're asking about. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:13, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

General question, Marchjuly. Do I need to get the logo from a printed source like a pdf published online (like a user's manual) or something mailed to me through snail mail (like a user's manual)? SherryOcean (talk) 14:05, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi, SherryOcean. I add a whole lot of logos in the course of my editing on school articles. Marchjuly generally works with files already uploaded. So perhaps an explanation from the side of the process you are looking at may help. Generally, an organization's logo will be found on its website somewhere. If it is in a form you can download it, and then upload it to en.wiki using the upload wizard, that's your best choice. If that is not possible, then yes, copying it off a pdf that is linked from their website is the next best choice. Scanning it off a document and uploading it is a generally poor choice, as it leaves holes in, for lack of a better term, the chain of custody of the image, bringing questions of its accuracy into play. Rarely, I've used sites like a school's official Facebook page, or an organization that the school belongs to, such as the state athletic sanctioning body, as a source, but those too are relatively poor choices. Hope this helps. Thanks for being a Wikipedian! John from Idegon (talk) 16:33, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

AWWWWWESOME John from Idegon!!!! THAT is exactly what I needed to understand! Have a great day! SherryOcean (talk) 17:23, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks

WP:FFU if you're unable to or unsure about uploading a file yourself. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:50, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

In your comment, you suggested I include {{Non-free logo}}, which I had already tried to do, with the text above. But I have added it as a separate line, as well. I hope I have done it correctly, and have, as far as I can tell, but I would not be surprised if I've not done it quite correctly. I thought the first one was sufficient, because it generated the blue box with rows of information. I didn't know I needed two. Per your suggestion, I have added {{Trademark}}. Thanks. Thank you for explaining that I can't use a non-free image in a draft article, I had not seen that. Thanks also for telling me I don't need to panic if (when) the logo is deleted before the article is approved. Thanks. Ron --Rontl (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi

WP:TEMPLATEs to help streamline the process, make the information easier to add, and try and keep things standardized for all files. For freely-licensed or PD files, {{Information}} is often used for item (2), while the templates found in Category:Non-free use rationale templates

are often used to cover both items (2) and (3) for non-free files.

{{

Di-orphaned fair use-notice

}} on your user talk page when that happens. There's not much which can be done when this happens other than to find an existing article where the file can be used in accordance with Wikipedia's non-free content use policy (this can be trickier than it seems for non-free logos), so there's a good chance the file will be deleted. Once again, deleted files can be restored at a later date, so just discuss things with the deleting admin once the draft has been approved.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask here, at

WP:MCQ. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:39, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your detailed explanation! That was a lot to understand, so it took me a couple of days to digest it all, but I think I've got it now. As you said, it would be very difficult to find a legitimate use for the image somewhere else. So I'll just have to wait for the other page to get approved where I use this, and then I'll discuss the situation with the admin who deletes this image, and get it restored so I can use it. Thanks again for all of your help! Rontl (talk) 18:35, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

My user name is my real name. I don't think it is a problem for wikipedia username policy. Some other users seem to use their real names as user names. Kind regards. Paul-Eric Langevin (talk) 17:20, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

@

Wikipedia:Request edit

.

You should also realize that even though there are many different language Wikipedia's operated by the the

respective communities. This means there are things which might be acceptable and allowed on one Wikipedia which are not allowed on another. English Wikipedia's policies and guidelines may be somewhat more restrictive those of other language Wikipedias, but it's these policies you must adhere to. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:47, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: Ok, thanks for your message. I understand this policy. However, how is it possible to manage this page in order that the two frames ("general notability guideline" and "conflict of interest") could be deleted? Should I ask to some English or American music specialist (musicologist, music critic, player, director,...)? Maybe he could confirm the notability and check the objective data (objectivity of the page). Or to some music specialist on Wikipedia? My father was actually a noted French specialist about works by Anton Bruckner and Franz Schubert, often quoted now in musicology courses. I can see that his noted colleagues, especially Harry Halbreich, Pierre Vidal (composer), Marc Vignal, and some others, do have now a page on English wikipedia. I try to stay as objective as possible but still the fact is I am his son. Thank you in advance. Paul-Eric Langevin (talk) 00:50, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

A couple of things here:

1. edit warring
   .
2. While many of your father's collegues may have English Wikipedia articles written about them, that does not mean (a) your father should also have an article, (b) these collegues should have articles, or (c) both a and b. Please see
   reliable sources. Article content on other language Wikipedias can be translated into English, but you need to be aware of Wikipedia:Translation. There are certain editors who help translate articles found on other language Wikipedias into English and you might find some at Wikipedia:Translators available
3. The article about your father is probably not being
   Template:Request edit since that sometimes speeds things up. You can also post at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject France, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music
   to see if someone more familiar with the subject matter than myself will take a look at the changes you're proposing.

All of the above is just some general information, but maybe you'll find it helpful. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:13, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: My father's page, as the pages about other family members, may represent a conflict of interest (COI) in English wikipedia policy, because I am a family member, so the frames might be useful. But the frame on "general notoriety guideline" on my father's page is not, because he was a noted musicologist and a specialist about Anton Bruckner and Franz Schubert's works in France, as were his colleagues Harry Halbreich and Pierre Vidal (composer), and as Marc Vignal still is. You can ask for example Marc Vignal himself, or some other English or French musicologist. My advice is to keep the frames about COI active, but to suppress the one about "general notoriety guideline". If you don't look for the right informations and don't suppress it, you can do as you think might be the best, but no doubt it is a mistake, in my opinion. Kind regards, Paul-Eric Langevin (talk) 16:35, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

(

original research, unless they have published on the subject (and even that doesn't speak to the question of independence). John from Idegon (talk) 15:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for your message, John from Idegon. I understand the problem. In order to certify the notoriety of my father's works (or anything else's works), I must find independant references that establish the notoriety of his (or their) works. The problem, in that case, is that his works end in the eighties, and I think there is nothing on the web about it. But it would be interesting to find something about it in the papers of this period. Thank you, Paul-Eric Langevin (talk) 23:25, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi again Paul-Eric Langevin. Just to repeat what John posted above, "notoriety" and "notability" are not the same thing particularly when it comes to English Wikipedia policy, so you should try not to confuse the two if you're going to discuss them on English Wikipedia. One of the main reasons that articles are

Wikipedia notable enough to support a stand-alone article. This isn't intended to reflect badly upon the subject (see Wikipedia:Why was the page I created deleted? for a little more on this); it just means the the subject matter does not meet the guidelines established by the English Wikipedia community for being included in English Wikipedia. It might see silly to keep saying English Wikipedia instead of Wikipedia, but the reason I am doing so is because each Wikipedia (there are many, so see meta:List of Wikipedias

for a complete list) has its own community of editors and its own policies and guidelines. Sometimes these policies can be quite similar, but other times they can be quite different. So, the policies and guidelines of French Wikipedia are the ones you need to comply with if you want to edit there, while the policies and guidelines of English Wikipedia are the one you need to comply with if you want to edit here.

Also, as I stated in a previous post, the fact that someone added a {{

nominated it for deletion instead of simply adding a maintenance template to it. You can ask him about this at User talk:Theroadislong

if you want to know exactly why the template was added.

As for sources which can be used to help improve the article, English Wikipedia policy only requires that they be

WP:PSCOI#Steps for engagement and you should be fine. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:30, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi

WP:OTHERIMAGE. -- Marchjuly (talk) 20:44, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I will remove it. I am not sure if it is doable, but it would be helpful if the Wiki media tab did not offer such images without some kind of notation that its use is limited this way. Take care.

talk) 21:01, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Image use can be tricky. It's OK to be

edit sum I left when I first removed the file contains links to relevant pages dealing with non-free use. If you go to those pages, you should find more information as to why the edit was made. Edit sums are how editors explain things to others, so it’s going to be assumed that you read them if you don’t ask for clarification when you don’t. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:15, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Understood. Still learning my way around.

talk) 21:56, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

I posted the question of fair use on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions if you would like to comment. Johnny Spasm (talk) 17:06, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I saw your post as well as the last one you added to

WP:FORUMSHOP as can sometimes happen when there are got multiple discussion about the same topic ongoing at multiple places. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:22, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Right. I'm not a big believer in disputing edits. I really haven't done this before, so I posted it in a couple of places in an attempt to put it in the right place. If I should delete the others, I will. Johnny Spasm (talk) 11:35, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

There's no need to delete anything; in fact, it actually might cause more confusion/trouble if you did, especially if others have already to responded to your post(s) (see

WP:TPO). I think all you really need to do is just pick one place to continue the discussion and then add a wikilink to it for the other pages so that people are aware of them. -- Marchjuly (talk) 13:31, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

I read your comment about images not aliening with text. I could be wrong, but I think alignment changes some with the browser and device being used. This article was edited on Google chrome and I think they correlate with the text fairly well. That is a POV with a COI for-sure but thank you for the observations. Mcb133aco (talk) 21:50, 29 June 2018 (UTC)mcb133acoMcb133aco (talk) 21:50, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for you comment

watching the article to follow and participate in the discussion. So, I'm going to add your post to Talk:Seabee#Image use right below mine. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:34, 30 June 2018 (UTC)