Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 18

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June 18

Category:Short stories set in 1922

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:48, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: We don't categorize short stories through the year of setting. We don't even do it for novels. There aren't that many notable short stories so this is bound to be a
WP:SMALLCAT. Pichpich (talk) 23:29, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
If deleted, recategorize in Category:Fiction set in 1922. Gonnym (talk) 10:54, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I do not agree. This tree should be used for fiction that is set in a clearly different time than when it was written. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:35, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Four Digit Wings of the United States Air Force

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27#Category:Four Digit Wings of the United States Air Force

Category:People from Ireland (1801–1923)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. This is the only logical outcome now that
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:52, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: A wholly un-needed chronological division of Category:Irish people. All the contents are already adequately categorised, so no need to merge.
See also the related discussion at WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_16#Emigrants_from_Ireland_(1801-1923). BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:03, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Tell that to the Poles. Their states may have evolved / dissolved over the centuries, but there were always a Polish nation. Didn't you write elsewhere that Irish people were Irish in 1799 and in 1802? Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - should be grouped by century not by period in the UK. Spleodrach (talk) 15:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why not group by both? They're complimentary. Plus the periods don't neatly overlap at the end. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:56, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Voodoo texts

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27#Category:Voodoo texts

Category:International Academic Competitions

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate of
WP:SMALLCAT as only 1 entry (and that entry is invalid, as the article is for a person, not a competition). If kept, should be renamed to the proper capitalisation Category:International academic competitions Joseph2302 (talk) 17:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
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Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 28#Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan

Category:People known for going barefoot

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Very clearly not a defining feature of any people. Di (they-them) (talk) 16:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - I am pretty sure this got deleted at some point in the past as well. (Oinkers42) (talk) 16:05, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, for two articles it seems to be a defining characteristic, but two is not enough. Besides the context is very different. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:12, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Bare feet are a part of these people's image in public consciousness, and there are RS to document it (say, Socrates is often referred to in books as "the barefoot philosopher", and Cesaria Evora was nicknamed "the Barefoot Diva"). --GLTPRE (talk) 19:02, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I can't imagine the reader who would want an easy navigational pathway between Johnny Appleseed, Socrates, and Yardena Arazi. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Listify. This lends itself better for a list than for a category. gidonb (talk) 01:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Yardena Arazi was also known to perform and be depicted barefoot. It's a big theme in her Hewiki entry. Her first single translates to barefoot girl. gidonb (talk) 01:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete How do you define someone for this category? Barefoot when performing (if a performer), barefoot on certain occasions? LibStar (talk) 01:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete I saw Iona Brown performing barefoot at the Kennedy Center; does she count? Sorry, this comes of as a trivial association. Mangoe (talk) 03:59, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Films set in summer camps

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. Aside from the redundancy to
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:55, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Redundant with the existence of Category:Films about summer camps. (Oinkers42) (talk) 15:35, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Albanian footballers from North Macedonia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: Delete This has been relisted twice, and no actual opposition to deletion has been provided in over a month (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 19:23, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Should follow the wider category tree of Category:Sportspeople by country of descent, which has many subcategories of sportspeople by nationality and country of descent (but does not split by specific sport). S.A. Julio (talk) 10:24, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. S.A. Julio (talk) 10:25, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question, is this about descent (i.e. did ancestors have Albanian nationality) or is it about ethnicity (i.e. the Albanian-speaking people who always have lived in what now constitutes North Macedonia)? Most articles are utterly vague about it and some articles do not mention an Albanian connection at all. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:58, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename and expand as per nom. Too narrow as it stands. GiantSnowman 18:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- There are a lot of Albanians outside Albania, for example Mother Theresa, who was from Kosovo. Nom is trying to make this an expatriate descent category, but it is probably not. This is a common issue with ethnicities within the area of the former Ottoman Empire. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Category:Musical television specials

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Musical theatre television specials. – Fayenatic London 08:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: These were originally separated with the rationale of a distinction between television specials that were staged broadcasts of theatrical musicals and television specials that were not, but based on the contents of the categories that's not what's actually happening. Instead, "musical" actually contains numerous entries that would belong in "music" rather than "musical" by that yardstick (such as Céline Dion and Liza Minnelli concerts). So even if separate categories are warranted here, the theatrical one would need to be purged of inappropriate entries and renamed for clarity — but as it stands, the names of these two categories aren't communicating a very clear distinction to begin with, and it's at best debatable whether the category system really needs to maintain the distinction at all. Bearcat (talk) 22:56, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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  • comment These two categories seem to be made up of (by my reckoning) at least four different kinds of things, of which two are clearly TV stagings of musicals per se, and broadcast concerts. After that it gets murkier, as there are at least a couple of different things which aren't either of these two (e.g., Amahl and the Night Visitors is a made-for-TV opera, and there appear to be a number of variety shows in the list). I'm betting there are others (what's with the Peanuts special?). I'm having a hard time even coming up with an overarching category that describes all these things. Mangoe (talk) 03:17, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:LeAnn Rimes

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 28#Category:LeAnn Rimes

Category:Tsardom of Russia nuns

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: AFAIK, we don't have any categories "by country" for nuns. We only have "by nationality" categories for nuns. The Tsardom / Empire is the exception. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:35, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Laurel Lodged we do, see Category:Kievan Rus' nuns (currently in CfR). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:37, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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  • The tsardom isn't the federation, but Russian people were living in the tsardom as well as in the federation. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment: I think that we need to first resolve the "by country" versus "by nationality" question posed by nom. Nom and I discussed this at a bit more length in the related CfM on Category:Nuns from the Russian Empire. TL;DR: The Category:People by country tree refers to country of residence, but at various points along this tree it has been inappropriately mixed up with the Category:People by nationality tree. If we don't fix this problem first by clarifying that "by country" means "by country of residence", this problem will persist across English Wikipedia and make nominations like this difficult to decide on. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:22, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Category:Greek chronicles

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename/manual upmerge.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Category tree has been reorganised by language and by topic, see Category talk:Greek chronicles#Categorisation by language and topic for the full background, explanation and process. See also other current CfRs concerning renaming Fooian chronicles to Chronicles about Fooland. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS: We could theoretically create an additional
WP:OR. So I haven't created it yet, and maybe we shouldn't. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Chechen-speaking countries and territories

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 5#Category:Chechen-speaking countries and territories

Category:Hindi-speaking countries and territories

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 5#Category:Hindi-speaking countries and territories

Category:Parody television series based on Star Wars

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: split.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: While there are some TV series in the category, there are also episodes of shows and TV specials. New name would more accurately represent categories scope. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 16:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Appears to be following Category:Parody television series' name scheme, as opposed to Category:Parody television episodes'. Perhaps a split would be more helpful. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 16:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There would only be like 4 articles in the category if we split. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 20:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Swedish-speaking countries and territories

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:29, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, and per category description This category lists countries and territories where Swedish is used as an official language. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:26, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
It looks that two out of five entries don't fit with is and probably don't fit with official either. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 16:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The historical Grand Duchy of Finland and Estonia under Swedish rule? Perhaps is is not grammatically correct. However, I checked at least the official status of the former, and German Wikipedia has an officially designated "excellent article" (Exzellente Artikel) on it: de:Großfürstentum Finnland. It says Das Schwedische bewahrte sich seine Position als Amts- und Verwaltungssprache auch unter der russischen Krone. ("Swedish also kept its position as language of administration and government under the Russian crown"). It continues saying that Finnish was recognised as an equal language of administration in 1902, and Russification efforts which began in 1900 were abandoned in 1906. About Estonia I'd have to check. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:19, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Category:RUSNANO

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge. Next time, please use
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 15:15, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Unpopulated villages in Turkey

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey. – Fayenatic London 13:32, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: More accurate as the populations were forcibly removed. "Unpopulated" is a more vague term here. Semsûrî (talk) 10:12, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, it is not always clear from the article text if the village was forcibly depopulated. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:14, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You're right. Three of the entries (out of seven) now lack the explicitness. I'll continue to look for more explicit mentions for the rest of them. Semsûrî (talk) 16:01, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would renaming to Category:Ghost towns in Turkey be appropriate here? This is a bit of an odd category. Leaning towards deleting rather than the nominated rename. –Aidan721 (talk) 16:31, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hmm, maybe the category can be deleted. I just thought it would have been great to have all the unpopulated villages categorized but oh well. Semsûrî (talk) 10:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename as nom. Those I sampled had been depopulated during Turkish/Kurdish conflicts. "Village" sounds right, but they might be included in a ghost towns tree. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:07, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename to Category:Ghost towns in Turkey, solely for consistency without regards to whether they were forcibly evicted by population transfer or otherwise. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:31, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    But all of these are villages and not towns? Semsûrî (talk) 12:05, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 16:29, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Although there is no parent like Category:Depopulated villages by country, there is a great number of singular "depopulated villages" categories for – you guessed it – very controversial conflict-related topics. Some examples:
Obviously, such categorisations are implicit/explicit accusations of war crimes / crimes against humanity by some other state or non-state actor. I would generally be in favour of Listify to allow
WP:V
. We can't have baseless accusations of serious crimes without evidence. If, as it seems, these villages were "depopulated" during Turkish/Kurdish conflicts as Peterkingiron says, we need evidence, and Listify is the best option. Otherwise, I suggest we do not use the term "depopulated" here.
The only one which doesn't appear to be controversial is Category:Villages in Norway (depopulated). This one might as well be called "Abandoned villages in Norway". Its parent is Category:Former populated places in Norway, which is part of the Category:Former populated places by country. Not sure what the difference is between "ghost towns" and "former populated places", except that the last one doesn't have to be a "town", thus satisfying Semsûrî's objection against "ghost towns". Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:52, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey per Nederlandse Leeuw. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:32, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In agreement with Merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey. My feeling is that 'ghost town' is kind of an Americanism (I could be wrong, but that's my feeling) and carries with it a certain connotation related to the American Old West. The 'former populated places' is by no means a perfect category as it makes no distinction between modern and ancient times; for instance, certainly Antioch is a formerly populated place, but it also has some current population related to the archeological activities going on there, albeit not likely a transient population and not "incorporated", but can we say that ancient cities were "incorporated" in the modern sense - I don't think so, myself. Regards --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:53, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Persian-speaking countries and territories

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The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:34, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:54, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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  • Rename This is much less subjective and therefore more defining. Purge if needed. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:05, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Dynasty genealogy

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 11:23, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: "Dynasty genealogy" is not a term I have ever heard before, and it seems to not really reflect a lot of the articles and templates collected in it. ★Trekker (talk) 12:56, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per nom: Awkward phrasing which doesn't do a great job clearly explaining the category at first glance (it's not even plural!) QuietHere (talk | contributions) 14:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Precedents: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_January_2#Ruling_families_of_counties_and_duchies and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_22#Category:Nobles_of_Kievan_Rus.
Ongoing: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_14#Category:Princes_in_Rus'.
At
wars of succession or princely rebellions) by another noble family, whose core members then suddenly become "royalty" at the expense of the immediate family of the overthrown/previous monarch. That they are all nobility, however, is something that never changes until modern times when royalty and nobility are abolished. (...) Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:01, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
  • rename to Category:Family trees of royalty and purge of any who are not royal (or imperial). People appear in these because of relationship to a monarch. We may need a "noble family trees" category, but we would need one for each country. In UK, there is a list article for each peerage, so that there is usually no family tree article as such, so that "noble family trees of UK" would probably be unnecessary. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:30, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:22, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Manuscripts by area

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Manuscripts by area

Category:European chronicles

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:European chronicles

Besta deild kvenna

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: The league and its main article were renamed from "
Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football)" to "Besta deild kvenna" in 2022. Categories should align accordingly. Additionally, Category:Úrvalsdeild Women duplicates Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) and should also be merged into the new category; its only contents are the same main article and Category:Úrvalsdeild Women clubs. -Socccc (talk) 13:14, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment: I intentionally did not nominate Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) players by team as it is separately up for CfD. If it is kept rather than deleted, it should be added to this request to rename it accordingly. -Socccc (talk) 13:20, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Places of local interest needing cleanup

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Places of local interest needing cleanup

Category:Novels set in fictional villages

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Novels set in fictional villages

Category:Two-time VFL/AFL Premiership players

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Two-time VFL/AFL Premiership players

Category:21st-century viceregal rulers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 14:11, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:C2C Category:Viceroys
. "Rulers" seems to have no added meaning or value here. It's almost never used in modern literature. The point seems to be that their title wasn't necessarily "viceroy", but so what? The category is about functions, not titles.
I don't think upmerging per
WP:SMALLCAT is necessary because it can be populated with, say, lots of items in Category:Viceroys in Australia. There is clear potential for growth, and this century is far from over. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:54, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
  • Rename per nom, or rename to Category:21st-century gouvernors-general because I think the term "viceroy" is no longer used. The only article in this category should be purged however: Albert II, Prince of Monaco was very briefly regent before he became monarch, not vice-roy. It is barely defining for him either. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:21, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It is still used for Canada, Australia, New Zealand and a couple of other countries, although it is true that most or all of these seem to have switched to "Governor-General" or "Governor" in practice. I noticed that when I was creating and populating the Category:Viceregal consorts category. There is a Category:Canadian viceregal consorts, but for Australia and NZ they prefer "Spouses of Fooian Governors(-General)", e.g. Category:Spouses of New South Wales Governors. It seems that 'viceroy' is used more between this person and the British monarch, while 'governor(-general)' is used more between this person and the people they govern over, but I'd have to check that. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the way, there is a whole series of viceregal rulers by century. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:15, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I know. I'm using this as a test case. Starting with a simple question to set a precedent, and then address a more complex one next instead of nominating 20 categories and getting a confused discussion. ;) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:26, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The category is part of an entire series of categories about regents. Dimadick (talk) 08:35, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Are you sure? Regents are a different function; this category isn't in the Category:Regents tree. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Perhaps you mean Category:20th-century regents of Greece and Category:19th-century regents of Greece? They seem to be miscategorised. "Regents" and "viceroys" are two different things. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:22, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • They are categories that I have been using frequently for years, and trying to expand when I can. They all include the same standardised template message: "This category is for any senior officials that act in the name of and as a representative of a monarch. Their function may be largely or wholly ceremonial and they may not be titled viceroy, but regent, governor-general, governor, lord lieutenant, etc." Most of the people included were regents, not viceroys. Some of these categories have been around since 2009, and have always focused on regents. Dimadick (talk) 00:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Okay, thanks for explaining, but I'm afraid that this definition/scope is not supported by
      WP:ITEXISTS ("I've put a lot of work in it, and it has existed for a long time")? I understand that if I were in your position, I wouldn't like it either, and be disappointed, but I would eventually agree that this category tree doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply
      ]
  • Split -- Regents (who deputise for a king during incapacity) should not be in this category at all. I would prefer the tree to be something like "governor-general" or "governors" reflecting the actual titles. The former are the monarch's representative in dominions. Under them are provincial governors for (I think) Canadian and Australian provinces. For earlier periods, UK only used viceroy for India; also Lord Lieutenant for Ireland. Governors could also cover colonial governors. I think the Spanish had viceroys in New Spain. Peterkingiron (talk) 20:25, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Dimadick, Nederlandse Leeuw, and Peterkingiron: meanwhile most of the century categories seem to contain regents only, most governors have apparently been purged. So shall we rename this category now to Category:21st-century regents and remove Category:Governors and Category:Viceroys as parent categories? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:47, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Agree for now. I expect all the 20th- and 21st-century rulers categories to be deleted anyway per the 2010 precedent, but we'll see. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:53, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 11:33, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

(Sailing class) competitions

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:12 Metre class sailing competitions, Category:420 (dinghy) class sailing competitions etc. – Fayenatic London 11:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC) – Fayenatic London 11:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Other categories related to Sailing by class (Category:Sailors (sport) by class, Category:Olympic sailors by class, and Category:World champions in sailing by class) follows the proposed scheme. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 11:35, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • We do not necessarily need to follow the same scheme for competitions as we have for people. It depends on common language. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:54, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've now tried to look at the use outside Wikipedia but there is no tendency to support either (Boat) competitions or (Boat) class competitions. On Wikipedia it is a strong preference towards using (Boat) class, e.g. 470 class when talking about competitive sailing. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 10:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose removal of dabs, per eg
    Oculi (talk) 12:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Comment - first, I agree with
    User:Oculi, that we should not be removing the parenthetical dabs. As for adding "class" to all of these, I'm not sure. Category:Sailing by class, and its subcat Category:Sailing competitions by class both exist. But when I look at Sailing_(sport)#Handicap_racing, I'm not sure, since those are competitions which specifically are not "by class". And when I look at Category:Sailing competitions, as a reader, I'm not easily finding those. I don't know that a reader could even know where to start to look. So I dunno. But I guess my concern applies more to the tree than to the nominated cats specifically. Anyway, as for these, after looking at various articles on this, I think that they should be even more specific. So: Category:X class sailing competitions. Because there are other types of boat competitions. - jc37 21:00, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
I support such a solution. Further suggestions on how to categorise handicap sailing are welcome, but I guess they won't suit in this exact discussion. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 10:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 11:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - My concerns about the tree aside, just to re-affirm what I said above, I support: Rename to Category:X class sailing competitions. And keeping the disambiguation parentheticals, per
    Oculi. - jc37 11:40, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Indian ancestors by region

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. – Fayenatic London 12:25, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging
more categories nominated
Nominator's rationale: delete, e.g. for American people with Indian ancestors the specific region in India where their ancestors lived is trivial for their own living in the United States. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In making these nominations, can you please set out the number of articles in each category? In America, where there are relatively few people of Indian descent and they are mainly in professional classes, the melting pot may have erased differences. In Britain, where Indian and Pakistani immigration was largely for manual jobs, integration has been much less complete. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Azad Kashmir and Sindh are unfortunate cases which are in the tree of India. I will of course strike these nominations. The 2022 Leicester unrest was due to religious differences, not to regional differences. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:33, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:23, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Are you sure you want to merge "Bangladeshi descent" into Indian descent, even with Bangladesh being a present-day country? Why not merge "Pakistani descent" into "Indian descent", then? And if you're separating by country, please note that Bengalis and Punjabis are split, half in the present-day state of India, and half in Bangladesh / Pakistan. I am also notifying some related WikiProjects about this discussion. —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 00:37, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Merging the "of Bangladeshi descent" and "of Bengali descent" categories into "of Indian descent" makes no sense. For example, Rumaan Alam's parents emigrated from Bangladesh in the early 1970s. Bangladesh was not a region of India then, or likely at any time in their lives. There's no evidence that they were Indian. Why would we put him in Category:American people of Indian descent? Bengal has at times been independent, at times part of India, at times been split between India and Pakistan, and is currently divided between Bangladesh and India. People who identify as being of Bengali descent might or might not be of Indian descent. --Worldbruce (talk) 04:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • I will strike Bengal, Bangladeshi, Punjabi, Tamil and Rohingya descent too. Bengal, Punjabi and Tamil may require a split nomination, but that is something for later. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I see no benefit to these mergers.★Trekker (talk) 11:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. What has been said above about the UK also holds in South Africa, where there were waves of Indian immigration from different regions, at different times and for different purposes. Those differences were magnified by apartheid and other racial inanities (try a Google Scholar search). I can't comment about the significance of regional origin in other countries, but generally I see no reason to merge well-populated categories. Jlalbion (talk) 13:06, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose As Lights and freedom mentioned, the application of the category "Pakistani people of Indian descent" in this context is itself a misnomer, because Pakistan and India were one landmass until 1947. Marcocapelle acknowledges that the Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent would therefore apply only to individuals who migrated from India to Pakistan "after the split". However, going through the Pakistani subcategories above, the individuals here are not Indian citizen emigrants to Pakistan, but rather Muhajirs who arrived in Pakistan during the partition (and their descendants) from the various provinces of India, a complex Pakistani ethnolinguistic community who in any case cannot be called "Indian" in the post-partition context. To ascribe them as 'Indian' would be to ascribe the millions who left Pakistan for India as 'Pakistani'. The Azad Kashmir nominations are also wholly inaccurate. Mar4d (talk) 05:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 11:16, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose- Despite the nominator trying their best to change according to comments and votes they are still errors remaining. Take Category:Chinese people of Punjabi descent to Category:Chinese people of Indian descent, the Punjabi category has both Indians and Pakistanis, so merging it with Indian descent would be wrong. This is too big of a nomination to check every single entry. I would have no problem if the nom were to nominate them individually or in smaller manageable groups.Vinegarymass911 (talk) 11:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Alta Loma, Rancho Cucamonga, California

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:People from Alta Loma, Rancho Cucamonga, California

Category:Tucana (constellation)

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Tucana (constellation)

Category:Russian city-states

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Russian city-states

Category:Malay-speaking countries and territories

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 14:18, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per
native language or an official language. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Malay/Indonesian: This category and its main page List of countries and territories where Malay is an official language may have a similar issue as noted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 28#Category:Hindi-speaking countries and territories. We may need to exclude Indonesia, because the Indonesian language is a standardized variety of Malay, which may in practice differ significantly from the standardised varieties of Malay as used in Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, and the Cocos (Keeling) Islands. Thus, it might be incorrect/misleading to throw them all together as "Malay as an official language" (as with "Hindustani", which for official purposes is practically split in "Hindi" and "Urdu"). @Austronesier: I couldn't possibly do without asking your linguist opinion here about this most prominent example of Austronesian languages. Thanks in advance! Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:32, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename - Countries do not speak, people do. Category:Countries and territories by official language seems to have examples of both forms. I think a group nom might be a good idea. - jc37 13:47, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Jc37 What kind of group nom do you mean? If you mean bundling all children of Category:Countries and territories by official language for a CfR, I decided not to do that because the circumstances are often too different to treat them all in one go (this is where bundles often fail). I consciously CfR'd them all separately, in planned stages, to increase the likelihood of reaching consensus in each individual case. So far, that appears to work quite well. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    PS: Almost all children that haven't been renamed yet are currently in CfR. A few exceptions have been deliberatedly postponed until a later stage for reasons I can get into if you're really interested. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah, ok. Thanks for the update : ) - jc37 09:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Jc37 You're welcome. It would have been a good suggestion otherwise. :) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:29, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename and purge as needed to be less subjective. I'll defer to more knowledgable editors on including Indonesian. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I tagged Austronesier already, they are quite knowledgeable. Unfortunately also very busy atm. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Singapore religious cases

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic London 10:38, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: category name Foo country "religious cases" is unique. Per
WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1-2 entries. Estopedist1 (talk) 05:31, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Welfare state in the United Kingdom

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Welfare state in the United Kingdom

Category:Prix Louis Guilloux winners

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic London 13:58, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:NONDEFINING
The Louis-Guilloux Prize is a literary award from France given to individual books that reflect "the humane qualities of generous thought, refusing all dualism and all sacrifice of individuality in favour of ideological abstractions". This category groups authors who wrote the winning books but those biography articles don't treat this award as defining, generally listing it with other honours. The category contents are already listified right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar Puraskar

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 19:23, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:OCAWARD
Based on the parent category, I'm assuming that the Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar Puraskar is an Indian literary award. (I Googled this and it's related to Sahitya Akademi but I'm not sure past that.) The only article in the category is Eli Ahmed which doesn't even mention thhe award--or Sahitya Akademi--so it should not be in the category. Indian topics are under-represented on English Wikipedia so this award may very well be notable, but the right place to add that content is in a list article with reliable sources. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment: @RevelationDirect, Hello. With regard to your proposal to remove the above category, I would like to comment that, I have created Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar and lists of recipients by languages. There is a bit of a mess in the title of the above category. Here the Puraskar is shown twice. If the category is to be retained, the title of the category has to be revised or the category has to be deleted and a new category Recipients of the Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar or Recipients of the Bal Sahitya Puraskar has to be created.
As i mentioned i created the list articles by languages. In which, 31 articles (mentioned below) are available where we can add the category. (Few have references and remaining, I have cross checked on Sahitya Akademi Website)
Sudha Murty, Ramesh Parekh, Yoseph Macwan, Dhiruben Patel, Chandrakant Sheth, Hari Krishna Devsare, Bolwar Mahammad Kunhi, Na D'Souza, Sumatheendra Nadig, N. S. Lakshminarayan Bhat, Zareef Ahmad Zareef, S. Sivadas, N. P. Hafiz Mohamad, P. K. Gopi, Malayath Appunni, Gracy, Raghunath Paleri, Sethu (A. Sethumadhavan), Priya A. S., Dilip Prabhavalkar, Ratnakar Matkari, Dash Benhur, Karnail Singh Somal, Abhiraj Rajendra Mishra, H. R. Vishwasa, Sampadananda Mishra, Joba Murmu, M. L. Thangappa, Era Natarasan, Dasari Venkataramana.
If the community decides to retain the category, then i will add it to above articles. Snehrashmi (talk) 07:35, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Snehrashmi: Thank you very much for all your work! I would still favor removing the category as non-defining based on how the articles treat the awards but, if the community decides to keep, obviously it should be renamed. (Either way, we probably need a category to hold the lists.) I don't want to speak for the other editors below though so I'll ping them so they can re-evaluate their iVotes based on this new information. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:49, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The main article is now named "Bal Sahitya Puraskar". Yes, it's now listified and I also think the category should still be deleted. Thanks for confirming both of your earlier iVotes! - RevelationDirect (talk) 23:20, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You're welcome, thanks for notifying us of the development. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:25, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
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