Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/Society/Archive 1

May have existed for over 5000 years, traditional and non-western topic, but not an obscure one, and still in existence today. Wouldn't be completely out of place if suggested at level 4.

Support

1. As nom.  Carlwev  07:17, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Important type of marketplace for Middle East and North Africa. The Blue Rider 10:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
3. V5 at least. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 14:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Definitely. J947 ‡ ^edits 06:32, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Is also a possible Level 4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
7. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Support

1. Nom.
   WP:WAWARD
   ) 04:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Instead of gig worker, I'll change my support above shortly accordingly. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:46, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Important concept for modern society. The Blue Rider 10:03, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

It seems the TV section was compiled by folks who forgot sci-fi was and is a thing, except perhaps Star Trek. Arguably the second most important sci-fi series after Star Trek (although I am open to hear from Stargate fans, and I know The Expanse is a thing now). See Babylon_5#Influence_and_legacy: "Generally viewed as having "launched the new era of television CGI visual effects", Babylon 5 received multiple awards during its initial run, including two consecutive Hugo Awards for best dramatic presentation, and continues to regularly feature prominently in various polls and listings highlighting top-rated science fiction series."

Note that I am not proposing a swap right now, but I think this show is more influential (based on that section) than Jackass (franchise), Gunsmoke or Dragnet (franchise), for example, where corresponding sections on influence/legacy are much weaker if present at all.

And as I noted, I think we should vote on adding The Expanse (TV series) and Stargate as well. Feel free to start such votes and ping me (or explain to me how come those are missing from the V5 list).

Support

1. Support as nom. Prefer adding B5 over the franchise article, as B5 is mostly famous for its show rather than the spin-off media, IMHO. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
2. Support per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
3. Support But don't think it is as influential as Star Trek: The Original Series Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:55, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
4. Support Dawid2009 (talk) 19:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

   Can

   WP:WAWARD

   ) 13:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

   Babylon 5. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:23, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose. We don't list Star Trek: The Original Series or Star Trek: The Next Generation and both of those series seem to be more culturally important than any of the series being suggested for addition. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:02, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

   I'd certainly support adding them. Much more influential (particulary TOS) than a lot of stuff we list (I fear, as I said, the TV show list was composed by someone biased against sci-fi...). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:11, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

   I would also support adding those two series. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:18, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

   @QuicoleJR But not B5? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:43, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

   Piotrus, I supported B5. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:51, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

   @QuicoleJR My bad, you are right. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 23:38, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

   @Rreagan007 Just a note that discussion to add those Star Trek show is now active a bit below this thread. Feel free to join it :) _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:09, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

• Either the supportive votes specify which of the articles they want to be added or, my recommendation, Piotrus chooses one out of the two. Otherwise this proposal will be in vain because we will not be able to infer which article is to be added. — The Blue Rider 00:06, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  Piotrus stated which one he would prefer added in his support rationale. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:21, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  Yes he did, but you did not and now Hawkeye7 also voted and did not specify as well, so in case this passes we are going to left wondering which one to add. — The Blue Rider 09:10, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  I think it can be assumed that folks who don't specify stuff vote "per nom", i.e. prefer the B5 to B5 franchise. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:15, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  It can be assumed that they don't mind adding either so this leaves the choice of which one to add to whoever closes the proposal. — The Blue Rider 14:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  Shrug. No biggie if they want to ignore my rationale (as long as they make a coherent argument as to why). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:23, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

It seems like it should be obvious how this is vital. It is rated Top-Importance by the Oceania WikiProject.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 03:09, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
2. talk
   ) 13:59, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:43, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I'd rather see Tribal art added instead - it seems to be a broader concept. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:40, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

The logo has inspired "I ❤ ..." logos of every sort. Its influence is ubiquitous.

Support

1. As nom-
   WP:WAWARD
   ) 16:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
2. I agree it is a major popculture symbol. And on a side note, I think we need to change quotas by removing hundreds of entries from geography ("just cities" or such) to stuff like this (culture). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Culturally important with a long-lasting impact. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:43, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Inspiring "I ❤..." is not a significant feat for inclusion. The Blue Rider 14:31, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
2. The logo should not be at the same level as Manhattan, for one. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:26, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

   WP:WAWARD

   ) 06:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

   Also, I may be a bit confused about your logic. Your point may be that an subject about New York could not be on the same level as arguably the most important part of New York. By that logic smaller New York related subjects such as

   WP:WAWARD

   ) 06:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

   J947's never stated that these buildings and the logo are of the same importance, obviously that they think that this is not the case. The Blue Rider 09:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

   @

   WP:WAWARD

   ) 08:38, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

• P.S.
  WP:WAWARD
  ) 02:02, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

1. The thing is cities are actually vital for WP. City articles are the backbone to lots of information query types. A high percentage of links on WP are to cities (especially in infoboxes).-
   WP:WAWARD
   ) 06:44, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

   @TonyTheTiger That's technicality. English Wikipedia decided not to ilink dates, which are ilinked in some other wikis like Poland. Do you think each year should be vital? We do have articles about them (1918 etc.). The discussion of why we consider cities to be more vital than years could be fun. More seriously, we have articles on decades like the 1910s and centuries like 20th century, which are not vital either, the latter at least seems to be quite an overight regardless of other stuff we discuss here. But frankly, I think many decades, particularly from the last century or two, are much more vital than some cities that nobody but locals plus few geography fanatics have heard about. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:30, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Right now, there is a discussion on

   WP:WAWARD

   ) 14:05, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

This may be one of the biggest oversights for traditional musical works. This folk song is considered one of Korea's most important national symbols, is listed twice on the UNESCO intangible cultural heritage and has been referenced and recorded innumerable times both by Korean and overseas musicians.

Support

1. As nom
   talk
   ) 23:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:58, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Just the usual systemic bias issue. Sigh. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:54, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
4. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:33, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
5. WP:WAWARD
   ) 14:07, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

FAIL

1-3. The Blue Rider 01:48, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

This is an intergenerational classic.-

Support

1. Support as nom-
   WP:WAWARD
   ) 02:43, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose. The word classic is not mentioned there. There is no reception or legacy or impact or such sections. Only two interwikis suggest no impact outside English speaking word. Not seeing how this is vital, it's a notable book but that's about it. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Oppose - not sure about the international impact. Interwikis are few at 2, consider that fellow non-fiction book Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus, which is not vital, has 17. starship.paint (RUN) 13:37, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Oppose, but would support the addition of Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus. J947 ‡ ^edits 00:13, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

The only show I tried to add. I want to go deeper on why I think this show should be add. First, this is an Australian show. If nothing else, the addition should help diversify the section a bit. More importantly however, this is a globally popular show with critical acclaim. As an example, this show made it on Rolling Stone's "Top 100 Sitcoms of All Time". Granted it's at ninety-six, but keep in mind that this show is made for preschoolers. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support as the one who re-added it. I agree with everything said above. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:14, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
3. Support. Bluey is immensely popular internationally. I have heard almost nothing but praise for it from new parents. --Grnrchst (talk) 13:08, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
4. Support. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:21, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose on the basis that the United States section is already tremendously over quota (+90). The Blue Rider 13:48, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

   @The Blue Rider: This show is Australian, not American. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:08, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

   Ops! Thanks for the head up. The Blue Rider 14:11, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

So it look likes it got re-added again. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:30, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Since I moved tokusatsu to TV genres, the Japanese section is now down by one. In order to make up for it, I'm going to advocate adding the other show on Super Hero Time. Besides being the source for the Power Rangers, this is a multi-billion dollar franchise that has been on the air in some form since 1975. (I'm partly also advocating for Power Rangers. It might not be on air in some form as long as Super Sentai, but the 1993-franchise is also a multi-billion dollar one.) --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support adding Super Sentai as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support adding Power Rangers. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:34, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
3. Support, but I'd add Power Rangers first if possible, I think they are a more famous franchise/name. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:54, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
4. Support adding Power Rangers, but not Super Sentai. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:45, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
5. Support adding Power Rangers, not Super Sentai. One of these is much more influential. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Now, I know that we already have the manga and the character in Arts, but hear me out. Along with Dragon Ball Z and Pokémon, Sailor Moon was one of the first anime many Americans watched, and there's enough differences between the show and the manga to warrant treating it as two separate things. (I know it's kind of hypocritical for me to advocate the Sailor Moon anime while also advocating for the removal of The Transformers show. Also, if you think that that's too many Sailor Moons, feel free to advocate removing the character.) --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support adding as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support swap addition. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:33, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
3. Support swap addition Series is far more vital than the character. Per Piotr below. Curbon7 (talk) 20:51, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
4. Support addition, oppose swap. The list is already too much US-centric, no need to remove what is still a popular anime character. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:53, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
5. Support addition, oppose swap. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:09, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
6. Support, and oppose swap. --
   talk
   ) 19:25, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

@Rreagan007 and Curbon7: Do you realize that if we remove that character, the list of superheroes we have will be compozed of about a dozen all-American comic book ones? We should not be 100% US-centric, I think. We need to add a few more non-American superheroes, not remove the only one who is there currently. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:22, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Struck after thinking about it for some time. Curbon7 (talk) 18:38, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Nomally, I would think we really only need one version of a show that has numerous variations, preferably the one that's been on the air the longest. However, there's one show that I will make an exception to: the original Pop Idol. Every time I see this show gets brought up, it's always in the content on how it's revolutionize television. American Idol might have lasted longer, but it was the original show that combined the game show genre with the drama of reality television. (This is not a partial swap request; American Idol is still a vital article.) --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support I'd argue its influence more than compensates for its lifespan.
   talk
   ) 20:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose. A show that only lasted 2 seasons just doesn't quite cut it. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:25, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
2. Per Rreagan007. — The Blue Rider 19:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

Now here's a show that I'm frankly shocked was never added was at any point. This show ran for forty-two years, and it got some memorable performances attached to it. It also... brought Jimmy Savile to national prominence. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support Rreagan007 (talk) 20:33, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
3. Support per nom --
   talk
   ) 19:25, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
4. support adding. Influential show. Lorax (talk) 03:43, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

(Just to let you know, the last five-ish addition requests are going to be American shows, so feel free to reject them on that alone.) Another show that I'm shocked was never added was at any point. This show was on the air for thirty-seven years. Dick Clark built his entire career on this show. None of the other music chart shows would exist if it wasn't for this show. (OK, I will admit that I'm crowbarring another show into this discussion, but I feel should also partly advocate for adding what is frequently considered to be it's Black equivalent: Soul Train. It was on the air just as long as American Bandstand, which is especially noticeable since: a) it was syndicated for almost its entire run and b) it was a Black-produced show.) --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support adding American Bandstand as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support Rreagan007 (talk) 20:33, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
3. Support For a couple of generations prior to
   WP:WAWARD
   ) 13:38, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
4. support adding Lorax (talk) 03:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose on the basis that the United States section is already tremendously over quota (+90). The Blue Rider 13:48, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

This has received the same critical praise as Breaking Bad. And since the critical praise for Breaking Bad amounts to "this is the greatest show of all time..." --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:17, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
3. Support --Thi (talk) 10:43, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
4. Perhaps a bit early and certainly biased, but support. Curbon7 (talk) 20:52, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose Television series is bloated and should not include spinoffs
   p
   15:46, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

   First off, Frasier is on here. Second, no offense dude, but your rationale of “we already have one thing” has lead you to some rather bizarre conclusions. Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 18:09, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

   We can have more than one article to represent a franchise. A show widely considered one of the best of all time should not be disqualified by being based on another show. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:39, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

So this show got removed, but because there wasn't a discussion over the removal, I feel save in arguing for re-add it. I'll be frank, this show is way too controversial to just simply have Jerry himself be vital. I know that we don't have critically lambasted works like The Room or Philosophy of the World on here, but I feel like there is a major difference between "this work is bad in a way that shouldn't be possible" and "this work is responsible for the decline of American values." --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support It's the most important tabloid-style talk show and represents an entire genre. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:32, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
3. Support. I've heard of it, for what it is worth. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose on the basis that the United States section is already tremendously over quota (+90). The Blue Rider 13:48, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
2. Oppose not a vital TV show.-
   WP:WAWARD
   ) 13:47, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

I will admit, I'm only adding this due to this being the most popular TV show right now. Like this is pulling viewership numbers that have not been seen in a loooong while. That said... it is remarkable how very little this show is discussed online. This feels like this is the modern equivalent of shows like Father Knows Best and 7th Heaven: conservative-coded shows that had high viewership, but any discussion on them seems to be limited to "that was popular?" (If there's anyone who oppose adding Yellowstone that also want to get rid of Father Knows Best and 7th Heaven, feel free to state that.) --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support adding as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Weak Support This is such a great show and has such great spinoffs.-
   WP:WAWARD
   ) 03:50, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose adding Yellowstone, support removing Father Knows Best and 7th Heaven. If nobody really talks about it, it is not vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:54, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Oppose on the basis that the United States section is already tremendously over quota (+90). The Blue Rider 13:48, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
3. Oppose per Blue Rider and its long-term vitality seems rather untested compared to other popular shows. --
   talk
   ) 19:25, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

Besides being called "one of the greatest shows of all time", I feel like how it's important on how it help brought Netflix into prominence, what with the service successfully reviving the show. (I also kinda want to nominate another FOX sitcom Malcolm in the Middle, which is also called "one of the greatest shows of all time", but the praise is not strong as Arrested Development.) --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support adding Arrested Development as nom. --Eyeluvbraixen (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
2. Support adding Malcolm in the Middle Rreagan007 (talk) 03:14, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
3. Support --Thi (talk) 10:43, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
4. Support per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:40, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose on the basis that the United States section is already tremendously over quota (+90). The Blue Rider 13:48, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
2. per The Blue Rider. Propose swaps instead. starship.paint (RUN) 05:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Oppose both per The Blue Rider on the basis that a section being 187/90 is Not Good. Cut down to its quota, and I'm guessing these won't make it. J947 ‡ ^edits 10:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Oppose per Blue Rider. Aszx5000 (talk) 16:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

NO CONSENSUS

1-0. The Blue Rider 01:56, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Comics swap. Pogo is the least popular under Comic strips, editorial cartoons and webcomics (14 articles), with 10 interwikis and 200 views daily. The other three comics represent the 'realistic' style of European comics, with more interwikis (23 for Blueberry, 16 for the other two), but fewer pageviews (100-150). I'd argue the pageviews represent lack of English audience familiarity with those comics - they are very popular in non-English speaking Europe, but they have not been signfiicantly translated into English. At least one of them should be represented here. Out of those three (they have rather poor articles on English wiki), Blueberry's lead states with RS that "Blueberry "was as much a staple in French comics as, say, The Avengers or The Flash here [in the USA]"" while Thorgal (which I edited a bit), "is critically acclaimed and one of the most popular French language comics" and " has also been credited with popularizing the comics in Poland". PS. We could also consider one of two additions if people think Pogo is vital (why?). We may have room in the quota after removing some stuff from regual novels (see discussions a bit above). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:02, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom, with equal preference for Thorgal or Blueberry. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:02, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

FAILED

2-3. The Blue Rider 02:08, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

For 3 weeks a year the United states is enthralled with March Madness.-

Support

1. Support as nom. -
   WP:WAWARD
   ) 08:17, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Weak support – don't think this is the worst proposal. Long history. More vital than the 60th basketballer. J947 † ^edits 01:32, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. And the rest of the world isn't. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:39, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. What? No. The Blue Rider 22:18, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
3. per PBP below. starship.paint (RUN) 03:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

Possibly redundant to

This. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:30, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

The NCAA tourney has 17 interwikis while the FIBA Basketball World Cup has 49, Basketball at the Summer Olympics has 42, EuroBasket has 43 and the NBA has 96. Even the ABA, which existed only in the United States and only for 9 years, has 32 interwikis.— Preceding

WP:WAWARD

) 11:13, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

PASSED

5-1. The Blue Rider 02:11, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

The last time I brought this up, people argued that it was a transitional console. I do not understand how that makes it vital. Many people view it as a simple upgraded version of the Game Boy, which would not be vital.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:44, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 13:46, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Weak support It was successful in its own right, but probably not distinct enough from the original Game Boy. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Never heard of it. (Unlike Game Boy, which is V5 and I assume we are keeping). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:29, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

   There is no way we are getting rid of Game Boy on the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:14, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

5. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 13:01, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose I think transitional or not, it is considered as the direct successor to the system that largely popularized handheld gaming and as successful in its own right. I'd definitely consider it more vital than the
   talk
   ) 19:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

   I would argue that it is too similar to the Game Boy. It even has a shared sales figure in the infobox. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:42, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

   That doesn't necessarily mean much other than that Nintendo didn't bother being specific with their public sales data. --

   talk

   ) 11:57, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

   In a accounting perspective, you want to be transparent with your public sales of your good or service if it's important and/or is doing well, so if that's not the case then it's probably not vital. The Blue Rider 13:01, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

This handheld was little more than a failed attempt by Sega to compete with the Game Boy. The article gives no additional reasons for vitality.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:44, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Per nom. It was barely a thing. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --
   talk
   ) 19:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Never heard of it. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:28, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

This was a failure in between two large successes. It did not have much of an effect on the company. It did not have much of an effect on the industry. It did not have enough of an effect on anything to be vital.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:44, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Support One of the worst single purchases I have ever made. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Support --
   talk
   ) 19:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
4. support removing Lorax (talk) 04:30, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

I did hear of it. Just saying, no hard opinion here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:28, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

NO CONSENSUS

2-2. The Blue Rider 02:10, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Of the main Sega home consoles, the Master System was more popular than the NES in European markets, the Genesis was their most successful console and an active competitor to the SNES, and the Saturn could be considered the cause of Sega leaving the console market. The Dreamcast, on the other hand, was just a sad last whimper before Sega fully backed out of making consoles. It somehow managed to sell even worse than the Saturn. For that reason, it is not vital.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:44, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Support Per nom. The Dreamcast is a bit of a historical joke. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose It was not successful enough to save Sega after the Saturn, but as detailed on its article, it pioneered many features that would become standard later on and it has become well-regarded in many circles for this, Sega's troubles notwithstanding. A real historical joke from Sega would be something like the 32X.
2. 52 interwikis. 1600 daily views. I'd rather remove some other piece of tech, like some of those supercomputers nobody heard about I nominated a while back. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:21, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

This console was significantly less successful than the Atari 2600. It had a similar level of success to the ColecoVision, which is not vital.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:44, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Support One of the many crappy consoles that was being thrown out at the time. Definitely not vital. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Support Least pageviews and units sold out of the listed consoles.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:47, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Niche gadget. I've never heard of it. (I know, subjective, but still, indicative; checking page views vs others would likely support my view). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:27, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
5. Support Rreagan007 (talk) 01:44, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

The only addition proposal I will make. This console is the only reason VR video games are as popular as they currently are.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:53, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. --
   talk
   ) 19:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too specific, but I'd support adding Virtual reality headset. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:26, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

   I would be fine adding that instead. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:47, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

   @QuicoleJR Start a vote and ping me? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:12, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

   @Piotrus: I started one in a different section. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

   If we're focusing on video games, then why not

   talk

   ) 20:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

   As a concept, perhaps. Thing is, personally, I recall hearing about the gadgets much more than about the games. The gadget seems to look cool and be covered, but the games still seem pretty niche. (Actually, that does not make a great case for even the gadget being vital - a bit too soon still, IMHO). I'll probably add a weak support for the concept (gadget), as AFAIK it is used outside gaming, which is an important consideration. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:49, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

• Any reason for this over other VR consoles? --Grnrchst (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

  The Oculus Rift is widely credited with reviving the virtual reality industry, according to the lead. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

PASSED

The Blue Rider 02:13, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

While video games are certainly important, board and card games have been around much longer and are comparatively underrepresented. This quota change, while small, would help with that issue.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:44, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
2. p
   16:35, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Per nom. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Sounds fair. Some board game concepts are arguably related to video games too, and most board games have digial versions, so there's a lot of overlap and it is all relevant. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:25, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Not the original proposer, but as an alternative to removing Dreamcast or GBC, I would also suggest removing the TurboGrafx-16, which was briefly Nintendo's main competitor in Japan near the end of the 1980s due to being the first 16-bit console available, but flopped in the West and had a limited long-term impact, with its most well-known exclusives being the likes of the