Talk:Arab lobby in the United States

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This article does not appear balanced

This article does not appear balanced when compared to a similar Wikipedia article about the "Israeli Lobby In The United States". The article about Israel is critical of their efforts, this one actually appears to have a defacto disclaimer that an organized "Arab" lobby does not exist. It fails to point out Saudi and other Arab investments in US media concerns with a resulting influence on reporting about middle eastern events, large corporate contributions to US political organizations, and indirect influence on American policies through agreements with US oil companies.

—The preceding

unsigned comment was added by 12.96.65.14 (talk) 20:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC).[reply
]

Good point. This is why we need to define carefully what we mean by "lobby" in the context of this article. Ismee (talk) 00:01, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Biggest Problem: Relying upon only one source

The biggest problem with the article as it stands now is that I reply upon only on one source -- that source does rely on other sources so it is solid, but more sources should be incorporated into the article to ensure it is a representative view. Also a new section on the "Informal Arab lobby" would be useful -- it would explain how the "petro-diplomatic complex" operates. --Deodar 00:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Baird is a problematical source for the "petro-diplomatic complex". He's writing about
ARAMCO from the days before it was nationalized. The Saudis have owned 100% of it since 1980. The days when US oil companies ran the world's oil ended in 1973. Most oil fields are now owned by the countries that contain them. Some of the cites at Hubbert peak theory and OPEC may be helpful. --John Nagle 04:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
]
Also, the Arab world isn't unified enough to have a highly effective "Arab lobby". There's an organized Saudi lobby, but it's a paid operation of the Saudi government. It also seems to be in decline, according to the Economist. There's the
Organization of the Islamic Conference, but they don't have much influence in the United States. A sizable fraction of Arab-Americans are exiles from their home countries, (especially those from Lebanon and Iran) so they're not a strong grass-roots base for an Arab lobby. --John Nagle 04:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply
]
A NPOV banner seems necessary, all the more when you consider that the only source upon which this article relies is a prominent member of a competiting lobby! JB 10/13/06

Contents of AfD'ed "Pro-Palestinian Lobby"

The following is the contents of a related, unsourced, and soon to be AfD'ed article:

The Pro-Palestinian Lobby refers to any
Palestinian interests, often at the expense of Israel (for example, by promoting boycotts and divestments from corporations). The lobby groups also seek to affect media outlets, and actively spread Palestinian propaganda[citation needed
].
The following political
pressure groups are actively involved in promotion of the Palestinian agenda, and can be seen as part of the lobby (as explained below)[citation needed
]:
The lobby has had several achievements, including the following:
The lobby groups are loosely organized, but are all actively doing advocacy for Palestinian interests. Here are some examples:
  • The Council for the National Interest (CNI) contains both a nonprofit lobby and an educational foundation [4].
  • CNI offers internships to applicants that have "congressional lobbying experience ..., experience in media relations, a willingness to write Op-Ed pieces, and an interest in research." [5]
  • In its Mission statement, the American Association for Palestinian Equal Rights (AAPER) defines itself as "a lobbying organization whose mission is to shape a US foreign policy that advances the interests and ideals of the American people in supporting the liberty, equality and human rights of Palestinians... AAPER is America's first congressional lobby to advocate solely for Palestinian rights." [6]
  • AAPER is divided into two distinct nonprofit organizations with complementary missions: one focused on education and the other devoted to lobbying. By providing direct lobbying, legislative research and writing and political campaign support, the organization hopes to support the "great cause of Palestinian rights to freedom and equality." [7]
  • The International Solidarity Movement explicitly calls for affecting media outlets and for lobbying [8].
  • The Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) calls for "lobbying against the ... practices of the Israeli state." [9].

I figure some of it may be useful in figuring out future directions for this article or sister articles. --Deodar 03:18, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There actually is a reasonably active "pro-Palestinian lobby". Yet that article is being deleted. --John Nagle 04:56, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just for fun, here's Shujaat's cartoon on pan-Arab events, which typically don't accomplish much. (Shujaat is al-Jazeera's cartoonist.) --John Nagle 04:56, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


It's probably useful to avoid the word "propaganda" because it carries a value judgment and can be provocative. Ismee (talk) 00:04, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

New Edits

I just meant to make a few edits... and then I got going. Better balanced, sourced and more informative article, IMHO. But I will delete allegation about Saudis funding first Arab lobby if reliable source is not introduced in near future. Carol Moore 08:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)CarolMooreDC talk

Should this be two articles

The Arab Lobby and, perhaps, the anti-Israel lobby.

Certainly, as the article states, there is an Arab Lobby "The Arab lobby in the United States is a collection of formal and informal groups that lobby the public and government of the United States on behalf of Arab interests."

But there is also an Anti-Israel Lobby, comprised of such groups as the

al Awda and Jewish Voice for Peace that focuses narrowly on garnering american support for the elimination of the State of Israel. Roger Warren (talk) 13:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)Roger Warren[reply
]

I agree with Roger Warren. But this article should also note the controversies that sorround some of these lobbies and their support, especially pre-sept 11, of militants and Islamists.( I want to use other more precise NPOV words but I dont have time to pull exact quotes to support them right now) It should also be noted that these groups do not criticise other countried that have murdered thousands and thousands of Palestinians, denied them their human rights, or engaged in their mass expulsion. aharon42 (talk) 19:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
First of all a lobby is an organization that focuses on legislative action, not other kind of activism or terrorism, so that would remain the focus of this article. And there are dozens of articles on the other groups and movements. Search whichever you have in mind and you'll find them.
Having worked on this article in the past and even today looked for updated info, I can say there isn't really much NPOV info on this topic at all, mostly POV anti-Arab, pro-Israel propaganda from sources like FrontPage, Mitchell Bard, etc. The stuff on the Arab-oil lobby connection could use more development since obviously oil companies don't want Israel nuking or bombing the hell out of the oil wells. However, I haven't found anything from a reliable source on the topic yet. But feel free to keep looking. Carol Moore 00:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc {talk}

Unreliable source

"Joseph Puder, The Arab Lobby Can't Buy Support, The Bulletin, Philadelphia, September 17, 2007" doesn't look reliable to me. The author's ties to FrontPage decrease his credibility, not increase it. I'm removing the source until someone can show the reliability of the source.Bless sins (talk) 17:17, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reads like an ad

Clearly based on one book, this reads like an ad for Mitchell Bard. Needs objective sources, balanced viewpoint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abtschmidty (talk • contribs) 05:05, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reference to AIPAC

Hi all, Is the reference to AIPAC in the first sentence necessary, given that this article's topic is an Arab lobby, not an Israeli lobby? Ismee (talk) 23:58, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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