User:Victuallers/Archive6

Royal Gilbraltar Yacht Club and other DYK nominations

Given that you are so close to the subject, even noting that it is part of your project, do you think it is appropriate for you to be reviewing these nominations? Your conflict of interest may blind you to errors, as it did in the nomination linked above. Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 14:59, 11 September 2012 (UTC) - Not sure Victuallers (talk) 07:58, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Similarly, I am 99.9% sure that this is against DYK rules. Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 23:56, 11 September 2012 (UTC) My error Victuallers (talk) 07:58, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: August 2012

This Month in GLAM – Volume II, Issue VIII, August 2012 Headlines From the team: Results of the This Month in GLAM survey (part 1) USA report: GLAM US Mid-Year Report, Philadelphia Museum of Art updates, Society of American Archivists UK report: QRpedia in a pub; British Library music manuscripts; UK GLAM abroad Spain report: Engaging librarians in Catalonia Italy report: Italian institution case studies Germany report: Wikipedia editing in museums Sweden report: Collaborations taking off Serbia report: GLAM Cooperation with Aeronautical Museum - Belgrade; WLM first time in Serbia Mexico report: Image donation; 2 new GLAM projects Africa report: A month in Africa's GLAMs Australia and New Zealand report: Freopedia Open Access report: Open Access Media Importer ready for code review; Featured content Wiki Loves Monuments report: Wiki Loves Monuments worldwide: started! Calendar: September's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

Gibraltarpedia and plant articles

Hey Victuallers. So I'm unclear on this, does it have to have a bluelink to Gibraltar? The List of plants in the Gibraltar Botanic Gardens contain plants that are not actually native to Gibraltar, but are nonetheless included in the Gibraltar Botanic Gardens. As such, there would be no way to mention Gibraltar naturally in the article text. Does this mean I should only create articles for plants native to Gibraltar in order for the article to qualify? -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 06:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I'd be happy with a gib botanic gardens link... does that solve the problem? Oh and welcme aboard. We plan to launch a sub competition for flora and fauna - do you think there would be a wider appeal. Ding flowers fulfils our "bridge to africa" as many will be on both sides of the water Victuallers (talk) 07:16, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, no it doesn't solve the problem. As I understand the primary aim of filling in the list is to add QR codes to the Gibraltar Botanic Gardens collection, but a large majority of those plants in the list are present in virtually every major botanical garden worldwide (Royal Botanic Gardens Kew, Missouri Botanical Garden, Royal Botanic Gardens Sydney, etc.). It'd be

WP:UNDUE to mention the Gibraltar Botanic Gardens (or any botanic garden at all). Anyway, I don't know how appealing a subcompetition would be, as there are comparatively few editors focusing on flora and fauna on Wikipedia, but sure, it sounds like a good way to fill in missing plant and animal articles. (Oh and I'm in this purely for the spirit, ;) rather than the prizes)-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL

07:56, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

OK I understand your position and its a reasonable one - we'll have a think about it. I think there are solutions Victuallers (talk) 08:49, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Whata I have done in fi-wiki is to expand the Gibraltapedia-template at talk page of plant articles like this fi:Keskustelu:Mesiherttalehti so thet the talk page (not the plant article itself) has a link to Gibraltar Botanical garden. Then the talk page of botanical garden has a few sentences about the coming QRpedia campaign. --Tappinen (talk) 18:51, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

GibraltarpediA project and DYK

FYI Victuallers, a discussion that is related to you is ongoing here. Perhaps you'd like to take a look. Cheers. Yazan (talk) 19:06, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

GibraltarpediA in Esperanto

Ni ŝatus inviti vin kontribui al la projekto GibraltarpediA, la unua WIkipedia Civito en la mondo. La projekto bezonas verkistojn, fotistojn, tradukistojn kaj aliajn por helpi konstrui la unuan wiki-civiton kiu transpontas Eŭropon kaj Afrikon. Ni estas transformontaj Ĝibraltaron kaj la ĉirkaŭajn areojn en Moroko kaj Hispanio en areojn riĉajn je enciklopedia enhavo tuj alirebla uzante QRpedia-kodojn kaj NFC (Near field communication) sur platoj por vizitantoj kaj loka loĝantaro. Estas premioj por rekompenci kontribuantojn en la Gibraltarpedia Multilingual challenge por plej bonaj redaktantoj, fotantoj kaj kartografoj... kiu ajn vi estas. Pli multe en Gibraltarpedia.org

--88.170.224.51 (talk) 13:48, 17 September 2012 (UTC) (Dominik)

Gibraltarpedia article errors

Roger, regarding the errors that you say are in the Gibraltarpedia article, could you drop me an email to explain what they are? I'd like to have a crack at fixing them. Prioryman (talk) 17:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Contract

Roger, on this page you say that you signed a contract with the Government of Gibraltar. Are we allowed to know what the contract was for, i.e. what was to be delivered? Thanks Hestiaea (talk) 21:13, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Sure. And I appreciate you asking. The main thrust of the contract is the creation of QRpedia plaques to go around Gibraltar and for training sessions. Do ask if you want more information. The idea that we are developing a contract across not just national but continental borders is very cool. Victuallers (talk) 22:06, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Shucks, so you can't get me in somewhere in a half-built time-share in Marbella (last two weeks in May) after all, then. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the humour Martin, its appreciated. We are however hoping to offer subsidies to those who might want to visit. We aere still working out the details but it is a distinct possibility. You will see that you can get a free trip to Gibraltar if you win the Gibraltar Prize (oops, I mean - see here) Victuallers (talk) 22:34, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Never in all my sordid and sardonic dealings with the-strange-animal-that-is-the-bingo-card-that-anyone-can-edit, have I ever felt that

oversized raffle-ticket stub !!?? But I don't mean to sound carping and scornful. I would never wish to question your integrity in business dealings, and I wish you every success. Martinevans123 (talk

) 23:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi there Victuallers! I just noticed {{Gibpediavote}}, and despite the template text I couldn't for the life of me figure out what it was for. Could you give me any more details about the program that uses this text? We may well be able to find a more efficient way of doing things than the way they are set up now. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 14:37, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Portuguese

Gostaríamos de convidá-lo(a) a contribuir com o projeto GibraltarpediA, a primeira Cidade-Wikipédia do mundo. O projeto necessita de redatores, fotógrafos, tradutores e outros, para ajudar na construção da primeira cidade-wiki, a qual, além disso, une Europa e África. Vamos transformar Gibraltar e as áreas circunvizinhas de Marrocos e Espanha em áreas ricas em conteúdo enciclopédico, que possa ser imediatamente acessado através de códigos QR e NFC em placas, para visitantes e moradores locais. Serão concedidos prêmios para os participantes no Desafio Multilingue Gibraltarpedia, para recompensar os melhores redatores, fotógrafos e cartógrafos... quem quer que seja. Mais informações em Gibraltarpedia.org.

Unfortunately (for me), I prohibited myself from editing in the Portuguese Wikipedia - except for one day out of the year. This day is far away... - Al Lemos (talk) 23:39, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

...and Galician

Gustaríanos invitalo(a) para contribuír co proxecto NFC en placas, para visitantes e moradores locais. Serán concedidos premios para os participantes no Desafío Multilingüe Xibraltarpedia, para premiar os mellores redactores, fotógrafos e cartógrafos... quen queira que sexa. Máis información en Gibraltarpedia.org.

The Galicians don't seem to care much about international challenges, but I'm doing my part... - Al Lemos (talk) 23:51, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Username

As you may know, your username is being discussed over on Jimbo's talk page. I consider it a blatant violation of

Hi Vic! You are doing a great job, and I would like to suggest that you could get more official photos of the MPs from Gibraltar. After all, all they are or were ministers at a time or another... - Al Lemos (talk) 23:17, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Great Siege Tunnels

Hi. I thought you should know that, following discussion on the talk page, I put together a "controversy" section on the Gibraltarpedia page. I have long respected your work and don't know whether the allegations are valid or not, but now that the story has spread widely in the mainstream media, a discussion of the controversy was needed. Since you are the subject of those allegations, I thought you should be aware so that you can comment. Cbl62 (talk) 15:37, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm not even going to look at that page. I may see something I don't like and I wouldn't be able to change it. I do hope you have made a fair section and not just listed speculations - that would be very poor. Victuallers (talk) 16:52, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I have tried to identify the major media outlets covering the controversy. So far, the coverage has been quite negative and is picking up momentum in sources across the world. I did include a statement from you that was on the Wikimedia UK page. Absent a press statement by you or the government of Gibraltar, the coverage will likely continue to be quite negative. You may want to consider making a statement. Alternately, if you can identify sources that would provide better balance, many editors (myself included) would be happy to consider adding them. Cbl62 (talk) 18:17, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi

I'll take up your offer. Although links to things not happening are tricky to find.

1. What exactly am I being accused of? Paid Editting? I have not been paid to edit an article for money or create a slant in an article. I have been on Wikipedia for 5 years. I know what happens to MPs who peacock their own pages or institutions who pay someone else to do it.
2. Creating a competition where people create articles. They can get two extra points for getting a DYK. This is because this is a measure of quality. similar points are offered by the wiki-cup and wiki loves monuments. Has anyone noticed that lots of the articles that are allowed in the contest are not allowed on the English DYK ..... because they are not in English. Why would encourage edits in Gallacian if the object was publicity?

There is a comment from the Government of Gibraltar in the Gib Chronicle tomorrow morning which includes a supportive statement from Wikimedia UK Victuallers (talk) 18:55, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

We can confirm that Roger Bamkin, an ex-Director of Wikimedia UK, is one of two individuals who continue to provide advice on the production of the QR codes and training for volunteer contributors to Gibraltar's Wikipedia site. These two individuals were also involved in Monmouth's Wikipedia project. The final agreement with them is being finalised and does not include them being paid to write or edit articles on Wikipedia. A letter of intent between all parties was signed in June.

Doug Taylor, Vice-Chair of Wikimedia UK said "WMUK have been keen to be involved with this project ever since it was announced at Wikimania. The agreement that the Gibraltar Government has with the Wikimedia Foundation ensures that there is a clear legal basis for this collaboration. Roger Bamkin and John Cummings remain as the Wikimedia UK members who managed to get the accolade of "World's coolest project" for their last project in Wales. I wish them similar success as they aim to "bridge Europe and Africa".

Sorry that it has taken most of the day to provide the above.

Regards,

Stuart

SI GREEN Press Office HM Government of Gibraltar No 6 Convent Place Gibraltar

Once the statement is picked up in a reliable media source (or published on the Gibraltar web site), this statement should be referenced in the controversy section. Cbl62 (talk) 19:22, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Thats OK, I won't be doing that Victuallers (talk) 19:34, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

COI

The main way to avoid COI is to extend the scope of the articles that are included as COI. I have not pushed the Gibraltar article, or the Monmouth article. In fact most of wikitown projects' activity is not on the English Wikipedia. I do not intend to make any main space edits on the English Wikipedia concerning articles about Gibraltar or things based in Gibraltar. I'm not paid to do this as you can see above. I'm not paid to edit Wikipedia and I have never been. No one is trying to create a positive spin for Gibraltar. We are trying to create the second wiki-town, we are trying to extend the success of Wikipedia in European languages and in Europe. Victuallers (talk) 07:42, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a reasonable first step, but why limit this to English language Wikipedia? The appearance of impropriety is the same regardless of which language you contribute in. Cbl62 (talk) 14:30, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Also, it seems that the same restriction should also apply to others who have directly or indirectly received money from Gibraltar for training, advice, consulting, or otherwise. Have other Gibraltarpedia editors received any money? Cbl62 (talk) 14:37, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I read your reply below. I'm still not sure why you would want to make main space edits about Gibraltar in other languages. If the goal is simply to assist others, that could be done easily by commenting on the talk page of the user needing assistance. Commenting in main space of a Gibraltar article (regardless of language) would continue to create an appearance of COI. Also, I'm not sure you answered my question about whether other Gibraltarpedia editors have directly or indirectly received money from the Government of Gibraltar. For example, what about project coordinator Tyson Lee Holmes? And others? If these persons have received money directly or indirectly from the government or Tourist Board, it seems to me that should be operating under the same restriction you proposed for yourself. What do you think? Cbl62 (talk) 01:23, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Review of hooks loaded to main page

Hi Cbl62, Ive been thinking .... I know it wasnt me who loaded these gibraltarpedia articles to the main page. Other people may not realise that its a many step process involving at least three different people with one of them being an admin. I'm going to look back and see who it was who moved the gibpedia articles to prep (which I think is the key move). Care to join me? Oh don't mean to avoid your question. The contract is with me and John Cummings. I exclude other language wikipedia because they have there own rules. I'm also a monoglot so managing to assist someone in another language is a victory in itself. I think they would just be glad of the help. You may notice that there is no fuss about the Gibraltarpedia DYKs on the Hindi Wikipedia - the focus is entirely anglocentric - which our project isnt! Victuallers (talk) 15:49, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

1. First one in September was Gibraltar Cruise Terminal written by Anne approved by Viotet Riga and promoted by Cisco - is this the POV where we tell visitors about the explosion near the cruise termina?
2. HMS Calpe was written be me, approved by SGCM and promoted by Crisco. If the object is PR then why choose HMS Calpe? Why not mention Gibraltar in the hook? Why not choose HMS Gibraltar Prize which hadnt been written yet?
3. Vanguard Cave written by me and approved by Lowellian and promoted by Crisco - This cave is not open to the public. The Gibraltarpedia pic was not my idea but was the only free picture of the cave. (Both pictures are from the same photo). I created the simpler photo to avoid putting the Gibraltarpedia pic on the front page.
4. Profield Contractors written by Anne. POV? includes that there was a terrorist at the company. Approved by SChmidt and promoted by Crisco
5. Evacuation of the Gibraltarian civilian population during World War II nominally by Ecemnal but fixed by me and GibMetal77 - approved by BrownHairedGirl and promoted by Allen3 (Who answered my request to have it loaded to the main page as my COI prevented me acting)
6. Georgina Cassar - written by Gibmetal77 nominited by me and loaded by Allen3
7. That's interesting Royal Navel Hospital, Gibraltar was written by Anne and promoted by Panyd on 8th Sept
8. Diego de Salinas written by Al Lemos and approved by Anne and promoted by Panyd on 8th Sept - Two loaded on the same day.
9. Jews' Gate Cemetery written by Anne, approved by Maile66 and promoted by Panyd
10. Next three are all by Anne and not approved or promoted by me

AGF comment

One can only AGF for so long Victuallers. Doesn't it strike you as odd, for example, that at least 7 or 8 hooks were reviewed by the same editors involved in that very project? and that several of these reviews were erroneous (not counting your mistake in reviewing a hook you nominated) and had to be called upon by other reviewers on DYK?

House of glass and all that! Yazan (talk) 16:24, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

You have obviously looked at more of these hooks than me to work out the pattern. Actually I'd expect that the first review is done by someone who knows something about the subject. Members of the same project frequently approve fellow project members hooks. We even have hooks (usually Maths) where we need to find a relevant expert to read the DYK article. House of Glass? I intend to be transparent! Moving hooks however to the main page is a clear COI problem. Victuallers (talk) 16:37, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I did look at many of them, yes. I don't see a pattern (in a sinister way), but I do see a group of editors who cooperate a lot, and perhaps like to help each other with a quick review. That is a COI problem. Many of them are fresh editors, so it can be understandable, but you're a very experienced editor and you know that reviewing the works of people you regularly cooperate with (especially at such a sensitive distance from the main page) is discouraged, at best. The articles on Gibraltar (by their nature) have nothing exceptionally complex about them that they would need an expert in the field. At any rate, I just wanted to bring that to your attention since you are reviewing the articles anyway. Yazan (talk) 16:47, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks Yazan. I would like to feel good about the fact that we have new editors here. Actually I think Al Lemos has a lot of experience on the Catalan Wikipedia. Anne is a newish editor and look at the quality of her articles! I shall be surprised if this new idea to review the articles finds any real POV or COI. Will that restore some of your AGF? Victuallers (talk) 16:51, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

There are two different issues at hand right now: a) the local one at DYK which I think can be easily resolved through increased scrutiny on those articles relating to Gibraltar. In this one, yes I do think that a transparent review (one that is less POINTY --with regards to Panyd for example, whose concerns weren't out of thin air) would go a long way in restoring the AGF to many people including myself, and more importantly restore AGF in the volunteer editors who find themselves stranded in a shitstorm. b) The other, more serious and larger issue, is the sense (or appearance, if you will) of impropriety that has surrounded the officialdom side of this affair (WMUK, yourself and Gov of Gibraltar). This is something that is for the community at large to discuss and scrutinize further. Yazan (talk) 17:14, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Yazan, I have removed some of the pointyness. Actually I was pleased to see that you noticed that were moving fairly inexperienced editors to DYK. Training is what I'm being paid for - albeit in Gib. The appearance was always an issue so I had offered to resign from the board twice. It has now been accepted but it should have been done earlier (20 20 hindsight). What I wanted to show above was that I was not promoting Gibpedia articles or moving them from prep to the main queue. These are IMO the key steps. This loading of DYKs has unfortunately been the subject of some media stories. Just because they are numerous doesnt mean its one person doing it. (Actually there are a lot more suspicious numbers of Gibralarpedia articles appearing on the Catalan Wikipedia - we have agreed this with them).

I was pleased to find that there were some important and experienced editors involved like BrownHairedGirl, Allen3 and others. There is no doubt that the appearance could be handled better - (which just goes to prove I am not the PR expert that some allege). Hearing you reconsider gives me an expectation of a fair hearing. It does concern me that some are saying "Look! Ive discovered a COI!" forgetting to mention that they found the information on a public wiki where I had declared it. This project was based on Monmouthpedia, everyone at Wikimania was given a guide as to how a wiki town project worked, it was said that you needed external funding. We then show a video that reveals that the Minister of Tourism is involved. The Gibraltar government sign a deal to use the Wikipedia logo. Now, months later I get the impression that people are saying "we weren't told" Victuallers (talk) 17:47, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Mr. Bamkin - Were you training people to focus on "did you know?" Were you telling them it was a good thing? If so, why? Were you suggesting that the point of writing a new article was getting on "did you know?" Etc...

talk

) 17:52, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The guy I remember training last week was a Slovak who had moved to Gibraltar to learn Spanish. Very bright guy with good IT skills. We worked together for maybe 45 minutes on his PC. At the end of that time we had a one line referenced, iboxed and imaged article is Slovak on Gibraltar Airport. He might be able to improve it unsupervised but I believe he will need more support to go solo. You understand I believe how tricky it is to get an article through DYK. Its also tricky to train people in languages that are not English which can be the case. There was 1 active Wikipedian in Gibraltar and he WAS the Gibraltar project. I don't know anyone who can train a newbie to write DYK articles by themselves. So the answer is not "No" but "It would only confuse them". We are trying to create more wikipedians and a better coverage of Gibraltar, Southern Spain, Ceuta and Northern Morocco. Hope that helps. Please call me Roger Victuallers (talk) 11:34, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Just wanted to interject as factual context for the question that it's long been practice in the Wikipedia Education Program to encourage students to submit to DYK the articles they have been creating or expanding in their course. Although there are differences of opinion about how central this should be to a course, the reasons for focus on DYK should be obvious: submitting to any kind of review process is good, and DYK is the most accessible & relevant review for a new user working on a new article. A lot of the motivation for students to write well comes from the fact that on Wikipedia it will be read not just by their tutor but by a large public audience, and DYK is a way to bring this about. So I hope that when Roger trains people in improving articles, he tells them that DYK is a good thing: this would be in line with the Wikipedia training that's given in many universities. Given that the Gilbraltarpedia project is being continuously documented on the public web, I expect it's easy to confirm whether the point of the project is to create DYKs or' to make reliable, comprehensive information about the topic area freely available to the world through Wikipedia, with DYK as a step in that process. MartinPoulter (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the DYK is a useful check of a competent article. If you can write a successful DYK then you are no longer a trainee. DYK could be seen as a certifcate. When you complete a DYK then you are a competent Wikipedian. Victuallers (talk) 19:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Bristol Hotel

Hi, can somebody in Gibraltar please photograph Bristol Hotel, Gibraltar in daylight and also try to enter its lobby and restaurant or whatever and take some photos. Badly needs photographs.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:45, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I'll contact John or Tyson. The Bristol Hotel is just be the museum so it should be easy. Its not a very showy building from the outside Victuallers (talk) 10:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Flat Bastion Road also. You should organize a geograph type project within Gibraltarpedia for images. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:04, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

A possible DYK

Hey Vic! What do you think about Anthony Dudley for DYK? - Al Lemos (talk) 23:12, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

1. VERY Nice to hear from you Al, at the moment is only 700 characters as the rules don't include the text that has bullet points. There is a fuss on the English wikipedia about Gibraltar DYKs. The reason is that I'm being paid to organise the QRpedia codes and training. It might be wise to avoid it - but its your call. Victuallers (talk) 09:29, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh... someday we'll try it again ;) - Al Lemos (talk) 14:20, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh and we'll give you the missing 2 points!!

Birth of GibraltarpediA

Firstly see

MonmouthpediA

and read about the "coolest project". I had to stand down as Chair of Wikimedia UK to work for money on this project. It was worth it.

• 12th May 2012 - re-elected as director of WMUK where my statement makes it clear that I am being paid "for Monmouth Museum.... well a whole town". I also talk about the continuing COI with QRpedia and the difficulty of handling this in reply to questions. Despite this public declaration I am elected.
• 30th? May - Phone call from Gibraltar and then email on 31st May "me and colleague" invited. (John Cummings and I had lots of offers from New York down).
• 3rd July - I sent note saying "maybe" after consulting John Cummings
• 19th - 22nd July in Gibraltar - sign deal as "John Cummings and Roger Bamkin" on 22nd as they wanted "the guys who did MonmouthpediA" - Gibraltar Government were aware that we were not signing on behalf of WMUK. No mention of editing - (its silly to buy advocacy). The work is to install QRpedia and support a GibraltarpediA project. This was a clone/improvement of Monmouthpedia.
• 30 June Wikimedia UK Board meeting-debriefed the contract in camera (and who was involved). Offered resignation for 2nd time.
• 11th July - Gov. of Gib and WMF sign MOU. WMUK and me/John are not involved or consulted.(I was surprised by this)
• Wikimania starts and every delegate is given a guide which explains the wiki town project (including the need for money, logo permission and QRpedia). This document was written by me, John Cummings, WMUK staff and volunteers. A video (that we shot and directed and paid for) makes it clear that John and I are involved in reply to an invitation from the Minister of Tourism - The video does NOT identify me as a WMUK director. WMUK are said to be "supportive" as agreed (ie WMUK are not at that time committed and their logo is not used). The purpose is to build a bridge to Africa.
• 12th July - announcement in Washington and Gibraltar in Spanish, Arabic and English. (I wasn't there as my daughter was getting married on the 14th in the UK.)
• 21st July update COI on public Wiki for any people who had missed the Wikimania announcement - (note no one reacted - it was public info) (it had already been declared on the confidential board wiki.)

Since then the project has taken off on Facebook and Twitter and on Wiki. Hundreds of articles written. A minority of the articles are in English. Six public training sessions in Gibraltar. Met many leading gibraltar groups & three ministers. Talking about free wi-fi and we have a mention on the BBC web site. By September we had agreed support from Catalan Wikipedia, Morocco volunteers, Wiki Africa and an MOU had been drafted with WMUK. Victuallers (talk) 20:23, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Roger, you have been the focus of this because of your position with WMUK and the inevitable confusion between your roles as consultant, WMUK Trustee, and Wikipedia editor. I don't think I have seen anyone express any concerns about John Cummings here on Wikipedia. I believe the fact that you tried to resign from the board on three separate occasions shows that you recognized that there was a conflict of interest. It is a shame that the board did not accept your resignation when you first offered it, as it would have saved you from the recent press reports. One thing that troubles me is that you stood down as Chair when you became a paid consultant to Monmouth City Council but remained a Trustee - how is it possible for one to have a conflict of interest that prevents one from being Chair of a charity but allows one to continue being a Trustee? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:06, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Roger, that isn't a rhetorical question - I really do not understand how one can have a conflict of interest that prevents one from being Chair but allows one to be a Trustee. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 11:44, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

A Chair can have executive powers and the ability to decide what is discussed and what is not. The chair should be ensuring that COI concerns are managed. This makes it clear I think that there is an important difference in responsibility. I don't believe Ting Chen has an imterest in Wikipedia related technologies - this would make the Chair's job much easier to manage. Victuallers (talk) 14:19, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Village Pump proposal for a means of pre-approving collaborations

See

Dear Roger, I've emailed you on a Signpost matter, using your Commons email facility. Thanks. Tony (talk) 13:49, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Gibraltar-related deletion discussions

As you're a member of WikiProject GibraltarpediA, I thought you might wish to know that there are a number of deletion requests currently ongoing relating to articles and assets involving Gibraltar. They are:

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flat Bastion Road
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bristol Hotel, Gibraltar
• Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 September 25#Template:WikiProject GibraltarpediA

If you have any views on these deletion requests, please feel free to comment on the relevant pages. Prioryman (talk) 22:31, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi and thanks

Hi, I'm now (eventually) coming back to Wikipedia after starting a new job. Can I say thank you for all your help while I've been editing, especially when I was having personal issues. Now I have a little more income, I'll be joining WMUK, I do hope to see you there - you have been a great influence on the English Wikipedia for me, thank you! With all that's been going on, keep up your work. Cheers, Zangar (talk) 18:11, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I was just about to blank my page Victuallers (talk) 21:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Gibraltarpedia deletion proposal

Dear Gibraltarpedia contributor,

A proposal has been made to delete Gibraltarpedia. If you have a view on this, please feel free to comment at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:GLAM/GibraltarpediA. Prioryman (talk) 09:23, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow

Hadn't looked at en:wiki for ten days or so, having got depressed by the dragging on of the most minor possible dispute ... And meanwhile over here ... Well, it'll fade away, you know. All the best Andrew Dalby 12:53, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

New essay on Gibraltarpedia

You might be interested in an essay that I've written on the issue of Gibraltarpedia's supposed ability to produce commercial benefits for Gibraltar; see User:Prioryman/Gibraltarpedia, monetisation and myths. Prioryman (talk) 23:02, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Re:A 100!

Hi Vic! Oh, well, I was the first... but now, I'm not the only one ;) - Al Lemos (talk) 12:29, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Emily McInerny

Do you feel like nominating a DYK article for me? See: Emily McInerny.

That.... In the Australian Women's National Basketball League, Emily McInerny was awarded the Robyn Maher Defensive Player of the Year at total of nine times?

The DYK rules and process are a little complicated for me. Cheers, Spy007au (talk) 04:54, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Webcasted board meetings

Hi Roger, regarding your userpage statement, I was interested in your assertion that WMUK has webcasted its board meetings, and I went to the WMUK Water cooler to find out more. See wmuk:Water_cooler#Webcasted_board_meetings. The answers provided so far do not provide evidence to support your statement as written. If the UK board has not systematically been providing webcasts, and especially if they have not provided webcasts of anything regarding Gibraltarpedia, then I request that you make those points clear in your statement or revise it so that it does not lead the reader to make incorrect assumptions. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 05:03, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi John, its true that the UK board has not webcast every meeting or that even 100% of every meeting has been, but it did webcast its meetings . This was an important example of our intention to be open. My recall is that the first meeting we webcast was in November 2011 when the meeting was held at the British Library and a number of key Foundation staff also attended at least one day of the meeting. This would not have been the first meeting where we had non-board members present for most of the meeting. For instance Ting Chen witnessed this when he attended the important part of our board meeting in August 2011 which is where he saw the first museum in Derby that was fully installed with QRpedia codes. Hope that helps Victuallers (talk) 07:41, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Having non-board observers at board meetings is great. WMAU has done the same at various points in its history, but unfortunately we've never been graced with WMF staff or board. ;-)

Having webcasted board meetings is bloody fantastic, and it is appropriate that you mention it as evidence that the intention of WMUK is to be open.

But these good things dont change the fact that your statement as written is misleading. Only minor changes are need to mention the good things but also qualify them so that they dont mislead the reader. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 08:08, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you - to be honest they have only been twice to my knowledge but there is an open invitation (or was). I have added an extra word. If you think you can finesse it further then feel free. Victuallers (talk) 09:40, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Changing it to "They have web cast their board meetings." does not lessen the problem as that is still parsed in the English language to be an assertion without any qualification. You have weakened the strength of the assertion, but done nothing to qualify it so that it isnt misunderstood. And I am not going to start copy-editing your statement for clarity. If you are not going to take this seriously, the most I would do is slap a tag on the sentence or page, and I dont want to do that. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 10:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry John, but the accusation that I am not taking this seriously is not showing good faith. YOu are maybe seeing a nuance of meaning that I cannot see. I have little idea what "an assertion without any qualification" means. I have offered to let you change the words (or even if you like suggest the words). What do you want me to do? Victuallers (talk) 10:47, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I have difficulty believing that you dont know what "an assertion without any qualification" means. Be that as it may be, if I was in your position I would be more informative and add that none of the meetings about Gibraltarpedia were webcast. Were there any observers at any of the sessions regarding Gibraltarpedia? If not, I would mention that too. Those additions are called wikt:qualifications (see third meaning), but not surprisingly you will find Oxford more helpful[2] as it grounds that meaning in logic. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 12:21, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

A you noted above, the web cast is evidence of openness. Its not evidence of perfection in communication. Stuff about Gibraltar was not distributed because it was a "surprise" for Wikimania.... and at that point neither WMUK or the Foundation had committed to the project. When the WMF did then I think you will find it mentioned in each meeting in my reports to the board.... and in my declaration of interests. These are valid points but I'm not sure that they are linked to the assertion or lack of it of webcasting in my mind. Victuallers (talk) 13:03, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Would love to chat

Hi Victuallers,

I have been working on a multi-part Signpost interview series called Does Wikipedia Pay?. It's an in depth forum to discuss issues, principles, and practices with the people who work intimately in the COI area. I don't know if the timing is right for you or not, but I would love to have a conversation with you exploring your work with WMUK and Gibraltarpedia, to try and tease out what happened from your point of view, what went well and what didn't, what we can learn from the experience, and what the implications are for future partnerships and relationships. Please feel free to reply here or on my talk page, or email me directly at [email protected]. Cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 14:44, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

THanks for the offer Ocaasi but I'm not interested in money only in the mission. Have a think about the phrase you used "work ... in the COI area" and maybe you haven't quite understood whats going on. Actually that one phrase is quite offensive and makes me wonder if you have quite grasped what is going on. Victuallers (talk) 15:25, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for any confusion Victuallers. The scope of the discussions has been quite broad including Wikipedia editors who work with COI users, Public Relations representatives, and for-profit Wikipedia consultants. Please take a look at prior interviews to get a sense of their focus and tone; I hope you'll see that they're not witch-hunts and they don't try to pigeonhole people. If you focus on the mission and not the money, then the interview would be a great opportunity to explain that and address any misconceptions about your work. Anytime you're interested, the offer is open. Ocaasi ^{t | c} 17:44, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I don't mean to bug you, but I was wondering if since things have calmed down a bit, if you would be interested in talking. I care deeply about the ability of Wikipedians to partner with organizations and do their work, yet I think COI concerns are something that need to be dealt with head on to ensure that can continue. I have no intention of painting you with any brush, but I would want to give you an opportunity to respond to questions and share your story. Do you think we could talk this week? The interviews are very informal and you would have time to craft responses over email at your leisure. I hope you're well, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 12:44, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Monmouthpedia MOU

WMUK staff member User:Stevie Benton uploaded File:Signing_of_memorandum_of_understanding.ogv with the following description:

This video shows Roger Bamkin, Trustee of Wikimedia UK, introducing the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding between Wikimedia UK and Monmouthshire County Council. The signing took place in Monmouth's Shire Hall on 19 May 2012, the Monmouthpedia celebration day. See Wikipedia:GLAM/MonmouthpediA for more information about the project.

Note that you are identified as "Trustee of Wikimedia UK" and refer to yourself similarly in your speech. This is after you stepped down as WMUK Chair, so I assume you were at that point acting as a paid consultant to the Monmouth County Council. In the video, you, John Cummings, Ashley van Haeften (then Chair of WMUK), and a member of the MCC are shown signing a document. I have been discussing WMUK MOUs related to Monmouthpedia and Gibraltarpedia with John Byrne on Jimbo's talk page, but he seems to be having trouble answering even the simplest questions, so it may be quicker to ask you. When signing the MOU shown in the video, how were you identified (i.e., as a consultant or as a trustee of WMUK or both)? Is that MOU available anywhere to the public or to members of WMUK? Thanks in advance for your help. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I had a declared Conflict of Interest at that point. I was a trustee and I was working for Monmouthshire County Council. That was made clear when I stepped down as Chair. I was identified as a member of the steering committee I believe Victuallers (talk) 17:51, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Roger. Is the MOU available anywhere? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:10, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

"a campaign to delete articles on the English Wikipedia."

You claim that there is "a campaign to delete articles on the English Wikipedia" wrt GibraltarpediA ([3]). Are you just referring to the 2 articles I nominated for deletion, or are there (or have there been) more articles up for deletion that I am not aware of? If you are just referring to those two; that's hardly a campaign, it's one person seeing two problematic articles, one of which turned out to be barely notable after all, and one which is really a disgrace for Wikipedia (and if you want to give GibraltarpediA the responsibility for the article, a disgrace for GibraltarpediA as well). The behaviour of multiple editors in the AfD for that article (and in editing that artile) has been really very poor, either through incompetence or through deliberate misrepresentation of sources to make it appear a lot more notable and important than it actually is. Anyone whois really concerned with Wikipedia and who has the best interests of Wikipedia at heart should take a long look at that article and the edits of many involved in it, instead of inventing a "campaign".

Nominating two articles isn't a campaign I agree but without being pedantic is that all that took place or have you devoted a lot of time to these AfDs? If its just two Afds then I'm happy to change the word. Victuallers (talk) 13:26, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I have devoted a lot of time to the

Fram (talk

) 13:56, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry i ve been travelling. Pleased to see the template delete has also timed out. You do have a case with Flat Bastion Road for modification and I thinks it in progress. As usual the deletion process works out well for notable articles eventually it does consume some good will though. (However it isnt a finite resource!) Victuallers (talk) 11:20, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: September 2012

• From the team: Results of the This Month in GLAM survey (part 2)
• UK report: GLAMcamp London; brief news
• Spain report: Edit-a-thons in Spain
• Italy report: Smithsonian Institution, Brooklyn Museum and WikiAfrica
• Germany report: WikiCon; GLAMcamp London; Science 2.0
• Sweden report: Sweden report
• Switzerland report: Botanical Garden Lausanne;CERN
• India report: Wiki Loves Monuments 2012 in India
• Mexico report: Edit-a-thon at the Salón de la Plástica Mexicana
• Africa report: A month in Africa's GLAMs
• Open Access report: Open Access per default; Open Access Media Importer tests finished; Preparations for Open Access Week
• Calendar: October's GLAM events

Sanko's death

Hi, victuallers, I feel very sad about Sanko's death, which I was unaware of. --88.170.224.51 (talk) 12:48, 10 October 2012 (UTC) Dominik

Better News

Last month Prague, this month Yan Pei-Ming's exhibition opens with QRpedia codes in Qatar. Victuallers (talk) 15:15, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Islamic Gibraltar

Take a look at User:Prioryman/Islamic Gibraltar - any thoughts before I put it into article space?

I'd really like to include a picture of the Moorish baths at the Gibraltar Museum but I'm afraid the pictures we have currently aren't up to scratch. Is there any chance that the museum might be able to provide a decent photo? Prioryman (talk) 10:52, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

FA in front page in Finland

Gibraltar is our newest featured article and hence represented this week on fi:Wikipedia:Etusivu. See if you want to get a screenshot . Cheers, --Tappinen (talk) 18:11, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Hello, while "being quiet" I've made some botanical sub-stubs, and collaboration with my buddies, such as the FA. So nothing to collect points for. --Tappinen (talk) 18:25, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

20 points for an FA!! - Never thought we'd make the front page. Well done ! Victuallers (talk) 19:06, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, no points for this FA because it was a team effort, not one editor job. --Tappinen (talk) 20:40, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

What a pity. Ive just finished one of my contributions for Ada Lovelace Day and fittingly shes Finnish/Swedish - Marianne Alopaeus Victuallers (talk) 20:44, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

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Discussion about Monmouthpedia MOU

I've mentioned our previous MOU discussions at

Wasnt aware of that policy ... I'll look... Victuallers (talk) 10:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Template:QR code

Part of this template code appears to rely on an external site (namely Google), Would it be possible to look into replacing the google usage with an internally generated QR Code generator which could be implemented as a mediawiki extension? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't know where to start coding this, but surely PERL or PHP has an interface for doing this ?

The reason I suggested this was because amongst other things, it would be good not to have to rely on an external vendor that might start charging, or restrict access. The vendor in question also has agnostic relationship with 'free' software. ;) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

So good idea, but ..., I also wonder whether it should be called QRpedia as at the moment you cannot get a simple qR code so maybe two templates are required. Victuallers (talk) 11:50, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Hmm - Thanks for looking into this :) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:59, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Ada Lovelace Day

		Ada Lovelace Award
		Hi Victuallers, Thank you for all the work you put into the Cecilia Lindquist are highly appreciated as well. Cheers, Gobōnobō + c 15:44, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Username allowed

Hello, Victuallers. The result of this discussion was to allow your username. The discussion has now been closed. If you would like to see what concerns were raised, you can find a link to the discussion in the archive. You do not need to change your username. Thank you. Philosopher ^{Let us reason together.} 19:02, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Finnish names

Hello, saw you question about whether fi:John Mackintoshin aukio has a translated name, and I do not understand the question. Do you mean if we have a redirect from the English name ? The subject itself is in English (engl.) "John Mackintosh Square") as you see from interwiki link and the intro of the article itself. Second question: do you want in your table all the languages which have that article, or just one example per article, and what about those which do not exist in English (yet) ? --Tappinen (talk) 04:51, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Coordinates

Yes, I thought this would be useful. Thanks for adding to it but I may refine them as I started it as my suggestions for the rough location of each plaque (i.e. rather than have it point to the centre of Catalan Bay, have it point to where I think the plaque will be best placed). Of course, this is just a guide and I guess the building owner will have the last word.

I'll do my best to get someone to start more stubs in Spanish. I tried User:Ecemaml, but it seems he won't be editing for much longer for whatever reason. It's a real shame as we used to work very well together... --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 11:30, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Good idea! --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 11:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar

Thanks!

By the way, have you seen this? Blundering idiocity seems to be putting it kindly. Fortunately he seems to be mostly irrelevant these days (cf. flagged revisions and the lack thereof). Prioryman (talk) 23:37, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh but he does get media attention - I have written as you suggested as I think this may be a good move as we discussd. However its very important not to "shoot from the hip". Victuallers (talk) 15:37, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that, would like to see the Gibraltar project scaled to Spain and Morocco of course.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 11:00, 25 October 2012 (UTC) Me too. If only I had your ambitions for world supremacy! ... joking aside. These is the start of an article on Ceuta Cathedral in my sandbox and more importantly a wodge of pictures on Wiki and literally hundreds more with free licences on Flickr (search in Spanish!). Ceuta is certainly in scope and its a very notable subject. Cannot believe Marrakech didnt have an article! Blimey it has a song! and place in evry ex hippies heart - if only you had one :-) Victuallers (talk) 15:37, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Gib Award

I don't know about all this Gibraltar nonsense. Give it back to the Moors, I say. But I was feeling a bit grumpy about some DYK nit-picking, and your barnstar picked up my mood and put a smile on my face. Thanks, and congratulations, Aymatth2 (talk) 23:44, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

As for mine, I don't deserve it! I know what you're playing at: you want to make me feel guilty about not writing any Gibraltar pages yet. Been a bit busy, but I haven't forgotten. Watch this space Andrew Dalby 08:44, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

"But I was feeling a bit grumpy about some DYK nit-picking" Mmm you're not alone,

I don't know how to categorise this. A threat? I'll be prohibited of create articles in Spanish linked to Gibraltarpedia? Is the ultimate menace from Cookie Monster? - Al Lemos (talk) 23:57, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Al, I have been trying to chat about this - it could be that people have just read the wiki drama. Victuallers (talk) 11:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

No, it isn't. The wikidrama exists and does not provide a good image. However, it's the lack of respect to local regulations and the mockery to people the main problems. Of course, you can choose to blame on the other guys and not acknowledging that Al has been uncivil and has refused to understand the reasons why a 600x327 image is not allowed as a wikiproject stamp in the Spanish Wikipedia (regardless of coming from Gibraltarpedia or from the Pope in Rome). Best regards --Ecemaml (talk) 16:18, 25 October 2012 (UTC) PS: see es:Wikipedia:Plantillas de wikiproyectos

I don't know the rules of the Spanish Wikipedia and I'm not an admin there. I would expect that we would comply with local rules. Is'nt it a bit unusual to discuss this here? I do agree about the wikidrama. I don't think I can help unless Ive missed something Victuallers (talk) 18:47, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, a little bit unusual, but I cannot discuss in any other place (which actually means that my opinions are not really much representative). Anyway, my 2 cents. Nothing prevents anyone from translating articles in the English Wikipedia into the Spanish Wikipedia (obviously). Mentions to Gibraltarpedia will be deleted unless a proper Gibraltarpedia Wikiproject is created in the Spanish Wikipedia. The policies to do it are described in

I have updated all the picture records on commons as you can always improve but I was confused by some of your calls but hopefully you are now reassured. Victuallers (talk) 23:06, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Spanish Wikipedia

I don't think I can help here (I'm banned from editing in there, so that I can't be helpful). However, there are simple and sensible behaviours that rule for every wikipedia. For example, being respectful for the local regulations of each wikipedia. The Spanish wikipedia is quite conservative in the way wikiprojects are handled and definitely including a template as the one Al Lemos included is not allowed. Nodoby will complain too much (besides the logical removal of the huge image) as everybody can understand that it was done in good faith. Instead, Al Lemos a) reverted an edition by another editor here; b) answered with mockery on the user nickname (I've just noticed he's done the same in the message previous to this); c) pretended to be the subject of sort of persecution with uncivil remarks (rough translation: More articles... and less small talk. That's my only policy. If you think that Gibraltarpedia is a "scandal", why don't you block me? That kind of attacks to people contributing to the building of a universal free encyclopedia is revolting. Some time ago I was a great editor in the Portuguese Wikipedia; but I do think the ones in there are pretty much the same as those in here. Fortunatelly, I'm a frequent contributor to the English, Galician and Catalan Wikipedias. If you don't like Brazilian people writing in the Spanish Wikipedia just let me know. I'll try in Occitan)

To a) it's very clear,

On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that little can be done to enhance the image of your project. You're being paid for promoting the image of a customer in Wikipedia and that's cannot be changed so that I don't think Gibraltarpedia, as such, will be easily accepted in the Spanish Wikipedia. Of course that noone will object to individual translations provided they don't promote Gibraltarpedia. There I cannot help. Sorry if I haven't been much helpful. Best regards --Ecemaml (talk) 08:54, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

True, manners are taught at home and at the school. Now, treachery and betrayal are in the nature of certain people; are entrenched in their DNA. Very clever «manoeuvre» (or not?), my dear Spaniard. It's a trap!, cried out Admiral Ackbar, but it was too late. Go ahead, win the competition (if you can) - and «promotes the Spanish language» writing articles about Gibraltarpedia in your native tongue. You can't do that? You was blocked for good by his amigos? What kind of horrible crime you committed?! I feel sorry for you :D - Al Lemos (talk) 23:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

P.S.: oh, and don't translate gran contribuyente by great editor. It's uncivil. Great editors are the ones like you, who think that articles have owners. I was just a big contributor - more than 2.000 articles created only in Portuguese. But differently from you, I can edit in my home wiki anytime ;) - Al Lemos (talk) 23:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

P.S.S.: a cookie if you guess who blocked «para siempre» our mellifluous friend at the Spanish Wiki (Gor Blimey! It's another dirty mockery!). - Al Lemos (talk) 00:10, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

If you want to play here then please be nice?? Victuallers (talk) 00:26, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Wait until tomorrow (Sunday, 28 October). I will make an important statement at the project's talk page. Stay tuned. - Al Lemos (talk) 12:13, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

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A good move...

...this. Hopefully anything that happens from now on in Monmouthshire will take a similar non-pointscoring approach. :-) Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:51, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Images

Thank you! I've neglected my Calpe Hunt/Royal Calpe Hunt the last month, so I decided it was time to finish it this weekend. I resumed work on it late last night and added a couple of photos. This morning, I started working on text again and, about an hour ago, late this morning, I suddenly realized that you'd put all sorts of photos for the Hunt on Commons. Fantastic. I just added six more photos to the article. (And I'll probably add more after I finish the text today!) Anne (talk) 17:34, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks

for THIS... but my number is actually 82. I do enjoy bringing readers to new or expanded articles through interesting hooks. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 22:41, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Simply glad to have contributions be noticed. Thank you. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 22:49, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Political development in modern Gibraltar

No I'm not in Gibraltar, I actually wrote that about a year ago but had some issues with other editors reverting my work. At one time there were a group of Spanish editors determined the Gibraltar article would reflect Franco's little red book. Sadly arbcom backed them up. I've been unable to publish a whole series of articles for nearly a year. You could call that my swansong for wikipedia, I've had it to be honest. Wee Curry Monster talk 12:17, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

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