Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive294

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Shrike (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Iskandar323 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

[[1]]

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 20:31, 14 September 2021 restore of this revert [2]
2. 22:35, 14 September 2021 second revert of the same material
3. [3] Personal attack

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. Date Explanation
2. Date Explanation

If

WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts

)

• Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on [4]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The user was given a chance to self-revert and he still can but he refuses to do so[5]. The user also violated

I agree that the banner was applied after offending edits but now that the user knows that his edits have direct connection to the conflict he can still self rv --Shrike (talk) 08:04, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To the very least the user should understand that his statement "1RR is a guideline, not a rule" is not correct and 1RR should be adhered --Shrike (talk) 08:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@

Iskandar323: The reason that it was not tagged it because there was no content regarding the conflict by adding the text about the conflict you have turned the page to be covered by sanctions. It would be a good practice to add such tag yourself and understand that any content regarding the conflict is covered by sanctions --Shrike (talk) 10:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

@Zero0000: He can add talk page notice to the very least and abide the rules even without the edit notice and that most of the regulars do. I will probably take it to ARCA as apparently you can break the rules even if you perfectly aware of them --Shrike (talk) 13:31, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@

@Deepfriedokra: I don't think I said that the user is "partisan" If yes could you please show me. Maybe you confusing my statement with Iscander[7] --Shrike (talk) 14:50, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[8]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

I made one revert, and then, within the same 24-hour period, made a second, modified edit following on from a discussion in the talk section of the page, where the consensus was that the content I had added had been given undue weight. Duly noted, the modified edit reduced the weight of the content. This discussion was civil and did not involve the accusing editor in the slightest. The other editors involved in the discussion have not voiced their opposition or made further reverts, though one has made further edits that have not affected the modified content, suggesting that, for that user at least, the content produced as a result of discussion towards consensus was appropriate. I maintain that the accusing editor appears to have a shallow grasp of Wikipedia's good faith principles, and I mean this in no way as a form of personal attack, but as a call-to-action for the individual to learn and engage in more civil and less belligerent forms of dialogue on the platform.

It is also worth noting that the accusing editor applied

(Moved by HighInBC)Hi

Iskandar323 (talk) 10:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

(Moved by HighInBC)Ok, @

Iskandar323 (talk) 10:36, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

This is extremely disingenuous WikiLawyering by 11Fox11. I didn't say that the 1RR rule did not apply to me. I said that it was a guideline, as are all rules on Wikipedia. I also said that in my interpretation, based on my movement towards consensus, I did not violate 1RR in the first place, or at least not intentionally. Interpretations may differ. On the subject of the

Iskandar323 (talk) 09:37, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

One of these two alleged personal attacks is a duplicate of the original. I would note that in both I do not make any direct accusations, just suppositions from my own perspective. I use the word 'seem', not 'is' or 'are'. Saying that something seems a certain way is not the same as asserting it is like that. Therein lies a very crucial difference between the expression of personal opinion and the type of defamation alleged. However, I will certainly take the advice of

Iskandar323 (talk) 09:52, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

@

Iskandar323 (talk) 12:15, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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Iskandar323 (talk) 12:54, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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@

Iskandar323 (talk) 14:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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@

Iskandar323 (talk) 06:54, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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@

Iskandar323 (talk) 07:24, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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@

Iskandar323 (talk) 16:15, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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@

Iskandar323 (talk) 18:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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@

Iskandar323 (talk) 18:02, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

@Johnuniq: But thank you for your clarification on the principle of concrete outcomes in criticism sections. Though I would ask if divestment (where actual sums are withdraw) is not, in of itself, a concrete outcome? You are also quite correct that I had not fully absorbed the implications of the alert notice posted on my talk page.

@Johnuniq: In answer to your specific questions about the Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot articles, I am not hugely vested in it and do not particularly care about the outcome, and I will not be trying to re-add a fully fledged 'criticism' section header or 'Involvement in Israeli settlements' section sub-header, because I now better understand the point about weighting relative to the article as a whole. I did not come up with these section headers spontaneously, but merely replicated the format from other similar sections on other articles, trusting that the editors who placed them there knew what they were doing, but where, in hindsight, the relative weighting may have been a little different. It still seems to me that a divestment by a large fund, as reported by Reuters, is a concrete outcome, and my tendency would still be to include a sentence on it, but I am not emotive about it. I merely made an addition that I thought was notable, based on sources that I thought were notable, in a format that I replicated from the work of other editors on other pages. All that I objected to was the wholesale deletion of material, by and large without discussion, by other editors.

@

@HighInBC: Yes, I now realise the distinction between what I thought a revert is, and what a revert is in the technical definition you have mentioned. I had though that a partial re-edit of some of the same material in a different format and location, arrived at as a result of efforts to move towards consensus as per a discussion, was not a simple 'reversion'. But I now realise that the definition is quite broad and that its interpretation can be quite ironclad, particularly on articles perceived to be IP-related, even if they don't contain an edit notice. I also don't think it was totally unreasonable for me not to have understood absolutely all of this prior to this arbitration referral.

@HighInBC: I'm getting the hang of the 'comment on the content not the editors' mantra as well. I had assumed that personal attacks meant actual insults, defamation or slander, but not the questioning of motives or truthfulness, but clearly, here too the Wikipedia definition is either very broad or very open to interpretation. I'll admit to getting a little emotive on the subject of my own persecution. But is it also not a problem for editors to demonstrably falsify formal statements in an arbitration forum?

NB: Let me once more state plainly that, while I was not aware of and certainly did not fully comprehend the

On Zakaria Zubeidi they reverted three times: [9][10][11] (and some reverts of IPs).

On Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot they also reverted multiple times: [12][13][14], when consensus was against them at Talk:Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot#Hugely undue addition.

To this one must add the personal attacks: [15] and [16] against Shrike when notified of 1RR. They also think the 1RR rule doesn't apply to them. 11Fox11 (talk) 08:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@

WP:SYNTHESIS. It is disingenuous for Iskandar323 to complain about lacking edit notices on the conflict on the page when they turned the page into a conflict article all by their lonesome. Israeli banks are generally unrelated to the conflict, but if an editor hijacks an unrelated article into a conflict article, they shouldn't then complain that no one foresaw their own actions in advance. 11Fox11 (talk) 11:21, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

@HighInBC, Deepfriedokra, and Johnuniq: now Iskandar323 is engaging in blatant canvassing, pinging Nishidani who never edited the article or its talk. 11Fox11 (talk) 17:17, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Never edited until after being pinged. Ping at 16:40, Nishidani edits at 17:29. 11Fox11 (talk) 17:33, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Usually we give newer editors the benefit of the doubt, I think an informal warning is sufficient in this case.Selfstudier (talk) 09:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging one editor, apparently in error, is not "blatant canvassing". I believe that following the latest post, the editor now "gets it" re 1R and Arbpia. I am not overly fond of the semi automated crit thing but I doubt the editor would repeat that either.Selfstudier (talk) 17:54, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

From 2014 until the recent editing of 2021, the user was mainly inactive and so I consider him "new" to the IP area in that sense as well as by edit count.Selfstudier (talk) 18:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To editor Shrike: According to WP:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles, an editnotice is required for the General Sanctions to be enforced but Iskandar323 does not have the technical ability to add one. Zero^talk 13:26, 15 September 2021 (UTC) @Shrike: Of course he should obey the rules, but nobody is obliged to add ARBPIA notices. I don't see what you want to take to ARCA as the rule about editnotices has been discussed by ArbCom before and they are unlikely to change it. Zero^talk 13:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm very tangentially involved here, but wanted to add an observation (not specifically related to the AE violation in question). On 12 September, Iskandar bulk-added a "criticism" section to 30ish company articles (see here, look for the edit summary "Added section"). The bulk of these were added within the span of about half an hour. They were later mass-reverted as "Undue weight" by Mike Rothman2, whom I temp-blocked for undiscussed mass reversion and obvious attempts at permissions gaming. My concern is this: mass addition of "criticism" sections in this manner smacks of

Deepfriedokra, I'm in a weird position as kind-of-involved-but-not-really, but since I'm commenting in the "other people" section and not the "uninvolved admin" section I think it's best if I'm not consulted on sanctions. GeneralNotability (talk) 17:51, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to draw your attention to recent comments by Iskandar323, where he describes this request against him as a "technicality", and despite the clear language used by Johnuniq below which says the criticism section is undue for the bank's article, that it is due and that there no "hard and fast rule" against it.[20][21]. Maybe a warning is not enough. Inf-in MD (talk) 15:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Deepfriedokra I think a ban is taking it a bit too far. My comment above notwithstanding, I find Iskandar323 to be one of the more reasonable editors with whom I disagree on most things. A formally logged warning coupled with his acknowledgment that he understands what he did and will not do it again should suffice. Inf-in MD (talk) 18:34, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Whether or not something is UNDUE is a matter for the talk page and the NPOV noticeboard, not AE. A user is free to engage wider input on a content dispute, what is needed here is the user acknowledging and agreeing to abide by our edit warring policies. This group of editors that all happen to be on one side of an editing dispute (mustnt call them partisans of course) agitating for a content ruling on a conduct board is a bit troubling, as is their insistence that said content dispute be used to remove an opposing editor. nableezy - 15:59, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Just noting that the page in question does not seem to have an editnotice describing the 1RR restriction, though it is described on the talk page. I know this is a requirement for discretionary sanctions. This seems to be an arbitration remedy rather than a DS. I am not sure if it follows the same requirements. No comment on the merits of the case at this point. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 07:57, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It was not my intention to suggest a technicality should excuse this instance. I feel it is important to know that not only is an arbcom 1RR restriction a rule(not a guideline), but it is one of the most strictly enforced rules we have. It has very objective criteria that seem to have been violated. Ignore all rules is a great policy, but I would not suggest you try it with an arbcom ruling. I recommend a logged warning about 1RR without further action.

Regarding the uncivil comments, I find it ironic that they are assuming bad faith about someone assuming bad faith, though I don't think it rises to the level of action. I do think they should be cautioned to keep discussion on the topic of the content and try not to comment on the editors. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 10:30, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have created an edit notice for the page so that everyone will see when they edit: Template:Editnotices/Page/Zakaria Zubeidi. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 11:27, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Given their recent comment about the second revert being part of the BRD cycle and thus not a revert I really feel the warning should be a logged one. To be clear, A "revert" means any edit that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material. This includes engaging in the BRD cycle, this includes copyediting and minor changes, it includes anything that meets that definition. Please understand that an arbcom ruling overrides any essays or guidelines you may encounter and is enforced very strictly. A logged warning with clear wording will remove the excuse of such misunderstandings in the future. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 22:28, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: Regarding that comment, I will echo my earlier caution to keep discussion on the topic of the content and try not to comment on the editors. Perhaps my proposed logged warning can include something to that effect. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 09:39, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I think that if Iskandar323 agrees to follow the (sometimes arcane) rules going forward, no sanction will be needed. I don't think that the "personal attack" rises to a sanctionable level. Iskandar323, please comment on content, not perceived belligerence. Now you know 1RR is a rule to be followed in this subject area. Am willing to be persuaded otherwise as to need for more than a reminder. Awaiting further opinions from those more AE experienced than I. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Ah, 1Fox11's comment posted just before I posted. Iskandar323, you really need to discuss, without making personal remarks, content. This moves us closer to the need for sanctions. AGF is not an impenetrable shield for edits that are disruptive. Sometimes AGF protestations are a red herring. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:44, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@HighInBC: Dear Lord, I've gone cross-eyed. Must be excess iron. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:56, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@

WP:BRD is a tool to use to avoid edit warring. What my colleague has already said I agree with. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:08, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

exploitable nature ? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:12, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@

Iskandar323: What I need to see is an understanding from you that you will adhere to 1RR in this subject area moving forward. Also, once, reverted, discussing and reaching agreement before reverting again is the way to avoid the sort of disruption that AE tries to stop. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

@

Iskandar323: Please address GN's concern about POV pushing and the undue weight of adding criticisms sections. I think it the type of edit to be avoided moving forward. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 06:09, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

"I'm not sure that the implication implied in "to suggest that it is in some way difficult to see this suggests either a huge degree of oversight or the wilful peddling of mistruth" above doesn't cross the line into NPA. Imprecations like that only lead to trouble. @HighInBC: you've been AEing longer than I so, am I of-base or spot-on? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 06:22, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@

battle ground mind set. Will cautions be enough? (This thread is stressful) FWIW, I don't like "criticism" sections. They tend to become tabloidesque. As Johnuniq writes, write about the impact, not the criticism @Shrike: I think your assertions of "partisan" and RGW without dif's are a problem. Please let us draw our own conclusions. If something new arises, feel free to draw it to our attention with dif's. Maybe paraphrase what is said in the dif w/o descriptors that might inflame emotions. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:11, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

@

HighinBC, and GeneralNotability: THIS plus canvassing noted by 11Fox11 in addition to the other concerns raised here lead me to believe a TBAN in this area would be a good idea. Would appreciate your thoughts. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:45, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

• Thanks @Seraphimblade: and @Hut 8.5: A warning should suffice. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:50, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• @Johnuniq: I logged warning I should thing. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 05:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• @
  WP:CRIT)—if something significant occurred for the bank (a concrete outcome), consider writing a section on that. Further, it is totally unacceptable to baldly describe other editors as "clearly partisan" (diff). The OP mentions diff as a personal attack and technically "You seem belligerent" is a move in that direction and is very inappropriate, not to mention pointless—does Iskandar323 imagine that this rejoinder will help in any way?

  Iskandar323 was alerted about discretionary sanction two weeks ago and we could assume they haven't yet absorbed the implications. Depending on how things work out in the next 24 hours, I could conclude that an informal warning for Iskandar323 is sufficient, or perhaps it's not. Johnuniq (talk) 07:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Yes, this was a 1RR violation, and it's quite disruptive to keep reinstating challenged material while a talk page discussion isn't going your way. However Iskandar323 is fairly new and was understandably not familiar with the sanctions, the article was missing the required notices, and Iskandar323 has committed to abide by 1RR going forward, so I don't think a sanction is a good idea. A warning would be plenty. Hut 8.5 17:49, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• I agree with Hut 8.5 that a warning is appropriate here. Of course if this should happen again, further action will be needed, but hopefully a warning and clarification of the expectations in this area will suffice to keep that from becoming necessary. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 18:00, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• A warning seems like a decent path forward here. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 03:11, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are we talking about an informal "close with a note of warning" or a logged warning? I'll support either to get this closed but User talk:Iskandar323/Archive 1#Reverting good faith edits with twinkle makes me favor a logged warning. Johnuniq (talk) 03:31, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• This was a disruptive breach of 1RR, however as Iskandar323 understandably didn't understand 1RR, I agree that a logged warning is appropriate in this case. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:45, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

11Fox11 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:45, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Iskandar323 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles-1RR

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 08:17, 21 September 2021 Revert of this edit
2. 12:37, 21 September 2021 This "massive rewrite" reverts many edits, including this recent edit. Iskandar323's edit completely removed Daniel J. Schroeter's article in the The American Historical Review.
3. 02:57, 20 September 2021, canvassing at page of like minded editor and personal attack ("it constitutes vandalism")

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 19 September 2021 Consensus among admins to log a warning against Iskandar323 for 1RR and other issues.

If

WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts

)

Alerted and stated at AE on 17:15, 16 September 2021 that they "did not fully comprehend the

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This is a blatant 1RR violation. The page has an edit notice. This is coupled by canvassing and a personal attack, an issue at the last AE as well.

In addition, Iskandar323's talk page has a 20 September warning against edit warring on a whaling article and from 21 September a copyright/copying warning on a food article.

While I do agree with some aspects of Iskandar323's edit such as removing the demographic information, the removal of

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries

from the lead (left only in the body with the newly coined euphemism "ultimately left" in a pipe link) is objectionable. Furthermore, Iskandar323 edit contained reverts of several bits that were contested between himself and other editors on the article and talk page:

1. Short description: Iskandar323 was reverted a few times, including here on 21 September, yet they removed "contested political" from "term".
2. Likewise, in the first sentence of the lead Iskandar323 removed "contested political" from "term", a revert of this edit from 19 September.
3. In the third paragraph of the lead, Iskandar323 was already reverted on 19 September which they now changed to "Reflecting the academic origins of the term, Jews with origins in Arab-majority countries do not often self-identify as Arab Jews" - while sources are quite explicit in that most Mizrahi Jews reject this term. Iskandar323 removed "The term is controversial, as the vast majority of Jews with origins in Arab-majority countries do not identify as Arabs, and most Jews who lived amongst Arabs did not call themselves "Arab Jews" or view themselves as such."
4. If needed, there are probably more reverts hidden in this large edit that can be pointed out.

This "massive rewrite", while containing some positive aspects, also reverted away material against the consensus of all other editors on the page. These highly POV reverts were hidden in the midst of this large edit 4 hours and 20 minutes after iskandar323's previous revert.--11Fox11 (talk) 16:52, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Deepfriedokra, they had a chance to self-revert after this report was filed. But they chose only to partially self-revert, returning the Schroeter reference but not returning the text that was there previously. I document in the note above several other recent edits which were reverted by this "massive rewrite", which Iskandar323 made a conscious decision not to self-revert.--11Fox11 (talk) 09:20, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Deepfriedokra, contrary to Iskandar323's most recent statement, in my initial complaint I stated very clearly that their ""massive rewrite" reverts many edits". I then gave an example of a single edit that was reverted, the simplest example so it would be easy to follow. Despite this, Iskander323 chose only to partially self-revert. Their concern of "evidence tampering or attempting to mask the timeline of events" is perplexing since that would also apply to their very partial self-revert.--11Fox11 (talk) 10:01, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Deepfriedokra, this latest statement contains falsehood. Contrary to Iskandar323's word, the 20 September canvassing/personal-attack diff in this complaint does not appear in the previous complaint as can be easily checked by looking at the version preceding this complaint. The previous complaint had a different 16 September canvassing diff and different personal attacks diff which were addressed by admins. The canvassing/personal attack diff from 20 September is completely new behaviour conducted after the previous discussion had substantially ended.--11Fox11 (talk) 12:20, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• @
  gaming the 24 hour period. This revert re-introduces an "Origins of the term" section and text that was first introduced by Iskander323 in this edit. For convenience this section is absent prior to Iskander323's edit now but is present in their preferred revisions from their edit at 16:38, 22 September 2021 and 15:30, 21 September 2021 with similar (but shuffled paragraphs) text. Also note accompanying talk page comment: "I've just added the most original and totally self-generated part of my previous re-write" that indicated awareness this is a revert.--11Fox11 (talk) 17:10, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

notified

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

This is totally inaccurate. In the first example provided, I attempted to restore the infobox to the page after it had been deleted along with a host of other edits two days prior. This was reverted by 11Fox11, and I left it be. The second edit referenced is something completely different altogether and in no way a revert of prior edits. It was something I was working on in the background and is totally unrelated to prior edits on the page. I rewrote the page from the ground up, using academic book and journal sources to provide the beginning of an accurate, sourced background to the origin and use of the eponymous term of the page. It is just a beginning and more work and sourcing needs to be done, but it was a page rescue to push the content back towards the well-documented, peer-reviewed material on the nature of this term and the the academic framework that birthed it. It is possible that as part of this endeavour, some materials may have been removed or misplaced, but not maliciously. Wherever possible I have re-used and re-located all available sources to appropriate sections. Following the edit, I created a talk page entry explaining the rewrite and its purpose and inviting input and comment, so thank you to 11Fox11 for their engagement, although I wish they have simply pointed out any omission on the talk page, as my post invited. As of this moment, I have gladly re-included the source mentioned, and the section it concerns, "Politicisation of the term" is better for it. I still have not had much time to review this section and it still needs cleaning up. In contrast to the claim that I have set about to revert edits on this page, I have actually taken the page further in the direction that 11Fox11 was pushing when they removed the 'inappropriate' infobox. On reflection, I agreed that 11Fox11 was correct and also removed the related demographic information from the article. My edit was precisely aimed at steering the article away from the demographics of Jewish communities originating from the Arab World, which is covered in other articles, and back towards the topic of the specific term that this article addresses.

@

@

Iskandar323 (talk) 12:04, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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Iskandar323 (talk) 12:42, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

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To editor

Iskandar323 (talk) 08:30, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

At this stage could someone point out to me where on the talk page (his or the article) Iskandar323 has been invited to self revert the alleged 1R breach as per usual practice?Selfstudier (talk) 17:19, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In relation to the edit described in revert 1, could editor @Free1Soul: kindly explain the edit summary "(deadlinks miss placed. Provide citations and fix text)" in relation to the reverted edit, in particular the removal of tags and the infobox along with all of it's sources. I did see that, the following day, when Iskandar323 asked you to restore this material on the article talk page under the section "Removal of infobox and other unconstructive edits" it was only then that you (backed up by the complaining editor here) provided a variety of not entirely satisfactory after the fact explanations.Selfstudier (talk) 17:55, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know whether Iskander323 intended to canvass me to his side of the discussion, we had been discussing one thing and another on his talk page prior so it is possible it was merely a continuation in the same vein. If it was a canvassing attempt, then it was a signal failure as I did not even visit the page, merely advising the editor to take things forward on the talk page which I now see that he quite properly did. Is it merely coincidental that we have the same three versus one situation as in the complaint just adjudicated? Selfstudier (talk) 19:00, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have now had time to examine revert 2 and even if it was not the intent to revert, it is clear that is what has happened all the same. In mitigation, I do think the editor should have been given the opportunity to self revert, that is the custom.Selfstudier (talk) 09:04, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Selfstudier, in this disruptive edit, Iskandar323 tagged around 20 refs as dead links. Most of those tags were wrong, either tagging live links (or links with archive versions) or tagging refs with no urls (books and journals), in which there was no url that was dead. Free1Soul (talk) 18:15, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Iskandar323 is pushing his pov over and over in the page. He is not listening. Free1Soul (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Deepfriedokra, Iskandar323 is not accurately portraying my comment. "Arab Jew" is a term that most Mizrahi Jews (the so labelled "Arab Jews") find offensive, this is what sources say. I did not use the N word. I said that labelling populations, that reject this term, as "Arab Jews" in the infobox was inappropriate - inappropriate in the same manner as adding a population box to the article Nigger (or for that matter Kike or any other offensive term that has an article on Wikipedia). The example article was one where it would be obvious a population box would be out of the question. The reasons why "Arab Jew" are offensive to us Mizrahim are complex and have many layers, but one important layer is that it erases Jewish ethnic identity, reducing the Jewish identity to a religion, putting those labelled outside the Jewish people and into a different ethnic group. Use of this term implies we are less Jewish than other Jews.

My point was that labelling people who do not identify themselves with this term in the infobox was unappropriate. Free1Soul (talk) 19:38, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The argument about the N-word is obscene (Arab Jew is in fact a widely used term, objected to by some, not most as the bs above claims), and a user who thinks that is a valid argument to make should think carefully about accusing others of "POV-pushing". As far as the reverts, Iskandr, you need to slow down. If you get reverted stop editing the article for a day. Boom, never have a 1RR violation again. nableezy - 21:47, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Um, the opinion piece in the Haaretz article makes the opposite point the user is making, namely that Arab is not derogatory and the response to being called "the Arab" would best be "yes, I am a proud Arab Jew". All that is quite beside the point though, there is a reason you will not find the n-word printed in most reliable sources except when the word itself is being discussed, and even then it is rarely spelled out. A user thinks it is appropriate to compare "Arab" to the n-word. You know which is more offensive? The one that even this uncouth foul mouthed African Arab won't spell out. Jesus F Christ yall are something else. nableezy - 14:44, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Most Sephardic Jews object to this language. Nableezy links to a book by Shenhav who is one of the promoters of this language. Shenhav noted himself in an article that: ""it is not surprising that very few Jews of Arab descent, in Israel, would label themselves ‘Arab Jews’. It has turned out to be the marker of a cultural and political avant-garde. Most of those who used it, did so in order to challenge the Zionist order of things (i.e., ‘methodological Zionism’; see Shenhav, 2006) and for political reasons (Levy, 2008)" in [22] (taken from article).

Most (around 90%) Mizrahi Jews live in Israel. Shenhav, who promotes the term, says "very few" of them would use this label and that use of this label is a political marker.

This is a very loaded language to use.--Geshem Bracha (talk) 09:14, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: parsing Shenhav, Mizrahi Jew using this language would mark himself as a post-Zionist or anti-Zionist. This is a small minority position in Jewish or Israeli politics.--Geshem Bracha (talk) 09:26, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, if you were to call a Mizrahi Jew "Arab", that would be seen as insulting:

1. Stop Using 'Arab' as a Derogatory Term
2. [23] - "Yeshua said they also ordered him to write unfavorable articles about Netanyahu’s rivals, giving them pejorative nicknames. Naftali Bennett, a former Netanyahu ally turned rival, was known as “the naughty religious one,” and former Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon, who is of North African descent, was called “smiley” and “the Arab.”"

--Geshem Bracha (talk) 09:53, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Note that I closed the above request about Iskandar323 with a logged warning; this occurred two minutes ago and, as of now, has not yet been communicated to the user.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:21, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I don't give a hoot about any content dispute and the quality of sources and content should be determined via discussion and consensus. My only concern is, not with who agrees with what, but did Iskandar323 violate 1RR since the first thread started? If so, could Iskandar323 please acknowlege the now logged warning, self revert, and we all get on with our lives? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@

WP:Dif's of POV pushing? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:34, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

@Free1Soul: Would it be possible to address concerns raised by Iskander? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noting "Re-adding Daniel Schroeter source on Mizrahi activism". So that's a partial self revert. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:06, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As nableezy puts it, " As far as the reverts, Iskandr, you need to slow down. If you get reverted stop editing the article for a day. Boom, never have a 1RR violation again."

@Geshem Bracha: I think I understand what "a political marker" means. Could you briefly elaborate on its meaning? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:19, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Iskandar323 made a “massive rewrite to re-orient this page.” Such an edit in a contentious subject area, with such an edit summary, was certain to produce contention and disruption. It was not met with cries of acclaim and the throwing of bouquets. When edits are made in such areas, one must be less bold and make smaller changes with an awareness of possible objections from other stakeholders on the page. One must be extra civil and remember to assume good faith when others disagree with one’s changes. Now, as Selfstudier has written, it would have been best to request a self revert before coming to AE, however Iskandar323 could have self reverted after being alerted to the contentiousness of this edit by the filing of this request. They did, in fact, make a ‘’partial’’ revert that was insufficient. Rather than self reverting and gaining consensus for each change, they have defended the “rightness” of their edit and sought to explain away the 1RR violation. On the face of it, they have violated 1RR.

• I also am concerned about their temperamental suitability for editing in a contentious area. There is this “arguably vandalism/unscrupulous comment”. We do not characterise edits we disagree with in this manner, even in non contentious areas. Much less in this subject area. There are also complaints about misrepresentation. Even given the possibility of simple misunderstanding, the problem is the disruption caused. Clarification and discussion is preferred to other behaviors.

• I have not looked into talk page indications of edit warring outside this area. If they are editing in a problematic manner in other areas, it does not bode well. Coupled with the possible competence issue linked by HighinBC, it strengthens the argument for a
  WP:TBAN
  .

• Guerillero has suggested yet another warning, but I think we have passed the point where warnings and admonitions can be considered. We have, in addition to the 1RR, the insistence on having things their own way, the other behavioral issues, and now the spectre of
  WP:CIR casting its pall on this discussion. I agree with HighinBC that a six month topic ban, broadly construed, for this subject area, is in order. If another admin thinks a shorter TBAN is preferable, then that would be fine. The goal is to stop the disruption. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:31, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Noting continued disruption noted by 11Fox11. It is possible to disruptively edit war by waiting to > 24 hours to perform a revert. This is gaming the system and reinforces my opinion that a TBAN is needed. It would have been better form to stop edit warring and seek to achieve concensus, but Iskandar lacks the nuance and judgement required to edit in this area. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:55, 22 September 2021 (UTC) [reply]

• Despite the fact that the logged warning had not been given to the user at the time of the reverts, the user has had the 1RR rules painstakingly explained to them and they have acknowledged that in their previous(very recent) AE request. I feel this violation is actionable, we have already tried leniency and it seems to have not been effective. I feel they at the very least need a break from this topic area. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 22:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Given their latest response[24] I am concerned this is a
  A "revert" means any edit that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material". They read it and said they understood it. Despite undoing the actions of other editors twice in 24 hours they are making excuses like lack of consensus or it was only a "partial revert". The 1RR is a bright line restriction and this has already been explained. My initial opinion stands that they need a break from area of sanction and now I am leaning towards a longer break, at least 6 months. HighInBC ^{Need help? Just ask.} 07:54, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• I am conflifted here. The warning went out minutes after this was posted, but 1RR is a bright line rule and it was explaned to them in the last thread. My gut feeling is to tell Iskandar323 that the next time they break 1RR, or really do anthing else objectionable in the israel-palistine topic area, they will get an indef vacation from the topic. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 10:20, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  @Deepfriedokra: If people would like to try a time-limited tban now, I won't stand in the way. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 13:19, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Per 11Fox11's new evidence, I support a topic ban --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 14:39, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I think this is actionable. On the 16th Iskandar323 left this comment saying they now understood 1RR, so I think it's fair to sanction for any 1RR violations committed after then. Both of those edits were reverts and the fact they relate to different material doesn't affect anything. Accusing good faith editors of vandalism just because you disagree with their edits isn't good either. I would support a time limited topic ban. Hut 8.5 08:16, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Joshua Jonathan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 10:21, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Piedpiper186 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBIPA

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 26 september 2021 repeated request to
   WP:CENSOR info, after Talk:History of India#Request for removal of a certain part in the article which hurts religious feelings was closed by User:Kautilya3, who warned PiedPiper186 not to repeat that request diff
   ...
2. september 27, 2021 ... which they refuse
3. See their talkpage for previous issues and warnings; this editor obviously is
   WP:NOTHERE
   and not willing, or able, to change course.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. Date Explanation
2. Date Explanation

If

WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts

)

• Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
• Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
• Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by
  talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA
  ).
• Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
• Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date
• Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.
• Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.
• Placed a {{
  Ds/aware
  }} template for the area of conflict on their own talk page.

• DS-alert, 24 september 2021

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I'm not good at these processes, so apologies if I'm doing it incorrect, but their talkpage speaks for my concerns.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

diff

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Looking through the contributions, I'm not sure that this needs AE action, IMHO, a regular admin action of a
  WP:NOTHERE block is warranted. However, since this has been brought here, I'll hold off on the block for a while to make sure there are no opposing views on that. —SpacemanSpiff 10:31, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
  ]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

I apologize for wasting your time, I struck all my comments above. I should have taken a very deep breath and explained in greater detail before coming here. 11Fox11 (talk) 20:38, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

On 24 September, an editor removed material from the lead and placed it in the body instead. There were then intervening edits and continuing discussions on the talk page in the normal course. Then because the lead at that point contained zero criticism (on the 29th), I made a summary of some of what was in the body as criticism and added it to the lead as is normal practice (it's not even exactly the same although I agree it is similar). A revert would have been taking the same material back out of the body and reinserting it into the lead.

The second diff is a revert, I made that straightaway because there was an ongoing discussion at the NPOV noticeboard where an editor gave his opinion and then came to the article and reverted in order to enforce his opinion, which I thought was an unreasonable thing to do.

I asked 11Fox11 several times to explain what the second revert was a revert of and he declined to do so even though I said that if he could convince me that I had breached 1R I would of course fix it but he just ignored that and filed here. He has now reverted the material out of the lead himself so even if my editing was considered a revert, I would not be able to self revert it anyway. This is not collaborative behavior. Selfstudier (talk) 19:16, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I'll ask the same question that Selfstudier asked: where is the second revert? I see addition of material and one revert. Was that initial addition the restoration of previously removed material? EvergreenFir (talk) 18:44, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Never mind, I see it now. That is indeed 2 reverts. Removal, restoration, removal, revert. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:45, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• The section on Selfstudier's page where 11Fox11 asks them to self-revert doesn't throw a very good light on 11Fox11, I must say. Like EvergreenFir, I can figure out how this diff is a revert — this edit four days earlier had moved material out of the lead into a criticism section, and Selfstudier moved it back — but it's not altogether simple, so why not just explain it when you're asked? You seem to have been in a tearing hurry to report Selfstudier, too much so to explain (look at the timestamps in the linked discussion, and the comment "I am writing up the AE report beginning 5 minutes from now"), which gives off a bit of a gotcha whiff. I don't think I have ever commented on an ARBPIA case before, but I'm not happy about this one. I wouldn't sanction Selfstudier. Bishonen | tålk 19:35, 30 September 2021 (UTC).[reply]
• This is classic weaponizing of AE, which I take a dim view of.
  WP:BATTLEGROUND conduct. El_C 20:01, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Oh, for Heaven's sake. I must say that "classic weaponizing of AE," was my first impression. Bish, as always, cuts through to the heart of the matter. To be honest, I'd sooner sanction 11Fox11 for this battleground approach. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:32, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Hippeus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:39, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

ZScarpia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPIA4#ARBPIA General Sanctions

(standard discretionary sanctions).

I looked into ZScarpia following a blog post by David Collier from 23 September 2021 that was brought to my attention. I disagree with Collier in general, and with much of the specific blog post, however I was concerned by Collier detailing how ZScarpia smeared him on a Wikipedia talk page using extremely dubious sources and I decided to probe deeper into this aspect. I have thoroughly vetted this particular claim by Collier, and uncovered additional and systematic use of this very dubious blog by ZScarpia. ZScarpia's posting of false smears against a living he is in a feud, in regards to Palestine/Israel, requires attention.

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 13:21, 28 August 2021 Accusing living person (David Collier) of "is also suspected of being associated with the GnasherJew "crew"[28][29][30][31]", using one source (Jewish News) that does not mention Collier at all and three sources that are beyond dubious and are known for antisemitism. This violates the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy. Source context:
   1. https://dorseteye.com/i-give-you-david-collier/ The Dorset Eye, little known site other than being infamous for: this post which led to the suspension of a politician who shared this apparent murder threat. ([32][33] )
   2. https://twitter.com/socialistvoice/status/1104051361447059456 - Twitter of SocialistVoice run by an individual expelled from Labour for his statements, which include language such as "Jewish companies" and "Jewish blood"[34] (in relation to Tesco and Marks & Spencer
   3. https://azvsas.blogspot.com/2020/06/the-lies-and-deceit-of-david-collier.html Worst for last, blog post by Tony Greenstein who was expelled from Labour for anti-Semitism and for whom a high court determined that 'notorious antisemite' is not libel when used to describe him (Greenstein declared bankruptcy after being order to pay legal fees to the Campaign Against Antisemitism, after losing the case he filed and and appeal).
2. 15:15, 4 September 2021 On a BLP talk page, posting links to
   WP:RSP) and Tony Greenstein's blog which is even worse as a counter source to The Times
   .
3. 09:35, 2 September 2021 (+another copy: 09:36, 2 September 2021) Posting material in violation of
   WP:NOTAFORUM
   .

If

WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts

)

• Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 25 August, 2021 also indicated awareness on talk page (Israel lobby in the United Kingdom) where he posted the BLP smear using Greenstein as a source (+here).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

ZScarpia indicated on 17:31, 28 August 2021 that Collier "is not a fan" of his.

ZScarpia has a long history of using Tony Greenstein as a source on Israel, Jews, and related biographies and organisations :

1. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive984#NOTFORUM at Talk:Campaign Against Antisemitism, discussion of a NOTAFORUM post by ZScarpia on a Jewish organization and resisting removal, ZScarpia linked to Tony Greenstein's blog on azvsas.blogspot.
2. 04:13, 18 May 2020 use of tonygreenstein.com (twice!) for info on living persons.
3. 10:30, 7 May 2019 use of Tony Greenstein's blog on azvsas.blogspot
4. 13:12, 9 March 2019 same
5. 18:16, 24 July 2016 same, other article.

This list was compiled by searching for "azvsas.blogspot" and tonygreenstein.com in Wikipedia, ZScarpia is the sole user here posting these links recently.

ZScarpia use of a blog by a person whom the UK legal system upheld the descriptor 'notorious antisemite' was legitimate viewpoint for posting forumish talk page smears on Jewish persons is unbecoming conduct.--Hippeus (talk) 20:39, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ARBPIA relevance (Selfstudier):

Talk:All-Party Parliamentary Group against Antisemitism are a posting of a 45 page ruling in which Israel is mentioned 107 times, boycott 44 times (against Israel), and (anti)"semiti*" 87 times. All of these posts fall within ARBPIA.--Hippeus (talk) 22:14, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

• @Deepfriedokra and El C: the short version is that David Collier on his website complained that he was being smeared by ZScarpia in this diff, in which ZScarpia stated that: Collier is "suspected of being associated with the GnasherJew "crew"". This assertion is sourced entirely to dubious sources (and a RS that does not mention Collier or GnasherJew), including Tony Greenstein's blog. ZScarpia has been using Greenstein's blog in other talk pages, and I document other BLPTALK issues towards ARBPIA figures on the other side of the divide.--Hippeus (talk) 18:31, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ZScarpia&diff=prev&oldid=1046467703

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.