Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive324

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Scientelensia

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Drsmoo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Scientelensia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4#ARBPIA_General_Sanctions

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Scientelensia has been accusing multiple users of bias/prejudice, which is uncivil and is very much against WP:AGF.

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180168962 - “You may perhaps have a disconcerting bias in this regard.”

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180150707 - “Even if you do not like Palestinians, you must see that this scale of death, whoever caused it, is a tragedy. The image of the man shows that not all Israelis oppose Palestine. And also, what is wrong with being “ultra-Orthodox”? You sound like you may hold a prejudice in this regard; if so, please say why, if not, I issue my apologies.”

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180150468 - “You seem to have an anti-Palestinian bias.”

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180149986- “You seem to have a heavy bias.”

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180071513 - “I find your actions deeply troubling and also simply wrong.”

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180067500 -“Also, your opinion seems to be highly biased.”

I advised them to strike their comments, but Scientelensia ignored me and continued calling users biased.

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180229378 - “I never objectively said that they had a bias, only that they ‘seemed’ biased, ‘perhaps’ had a bias or ‘may’ have held a bias. Thus, I am not stating 100% that these people are biased, because how would I know?”

And then resumed calling users biased

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180231991 -“People only removes the ones here because of their seemingly biased views.”

Edit: Re Iskandar323, I’m confused by your comment. You said I didn’t speak with Scientelensia, yet my conversation with them, where I advised them to strike their comments, as well as their response, is included in this filing. Not only that, you linked to it in your post where you tagged Nableezy.

Edit:Iskandar323, I recommend reading through that thread you’re linking to, as well as the admin warning of a boomerang.

Edit: Nableezy, can you explain why you’re linking to an outdated diff that was very quickly struck/clarified within about 10 minutes? Doing so is very misleading.Drsmoo (talk) 15:41, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Scientelensia#c-Drsmoo-20231015173000-Notice_of_Arbitration_Enforcement_noticeboard_discussion

Discussion concerning Scientelensia

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Scientelensia

You can see my innocence from the excerpts; I have tried to contribute positively but this user has brought me into a needless situation. I would in fact call into question the user (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Drsmoo_and_WP:BATTLEGROUND_behaviour) who reported me and their actions. Also, if you actually view the contents of the diffs, you can see that I am actually right although I know now I should not have said so. The stuff the opposing people on there were saying was much worse: I have been taken out of context (!).

Context will prove that I have only been trying to do good. See the talk page on the ‘genocide against Palestinians’ to see this. People are always going to argue on Wikipedia, but by impassioned discussion the best result can be produced.

I believe everyone has a bias, and if I can discern people’s I will say so. Once people overcome their prejudices editing is easier. I obviously have bias too as everyone does, so if they tell me it is only for my benefit, regardless of the way in which it is said.

I suspect that Drsmoo’s annoyance with me is the product of our different stances on how to run the page. Drsmoo has perhaps been engaging in off-putting and hypocritical editing for some time (e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_assistance/archive76), though this may be a significant stretch. Glances at the talk page and SJ’s talk page show that I have been acting in a good and productive manner. I take Seraphimblade’s comments and will learn from them.

On Kathy Hochul, user Muboshgu says I have a “pro-Palestinian bias”. Firstly, by the rules which have just been explained to me, one should not say these things. Secondly, I used a reliable source and this is what it said. Just because an affair in one side, does not always mean it is biased. In the source, there is nothing to say that Hochul said bad things about Israeli Americans: just because the sentence was not in favour of Israelis, does not mean that there was an unfair bias against them. That the content was re-added suggests that it was useful and relevant and unbiased and that a consensus was reached on this, and thus that the revert was unnecessary and even plain wrong.

I strongly reject the unfair characterisation that I am biased. Since I first saw the page on the alleged genocide, I have tried hard to maintain a stance of neutrality where others have not. For instance, I was the one who added these sourced sentences: “The characterization has been rejected by many, but not all, Israelis.”, “Some Israelis reject the characterization of genocide, saying such accusations are antisemitic.”. I also modified the phrase “Both Israel and Palestine frequently accuse the other of planning a scheme of genocide.” I also added a rejection of characterisation section which was removed. I have also made sure that it was clear that it was not an official genocide by using language such as ‘argues’, ‘claim’, ‘belief’, ‘characterisation’ and ‘seems’:

“Genocide against Palestinians is a characterization of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict which argues that Israel has carried out and/or is carrying out some kind of genocide against the Palestinian population, sometimes related to the view that Israel is a settler colonial state. The view also includes the belief that the system with which Israel governs the Palestinians is one of racial segregation and apartheid. The characterization has been rejected by many, but not all, Israelis.”

Neutrality has always been important to me, which is probably why I pointed out people’s biases, though this was wrong. My conduct on the talk pages may have been wrong on parts yet I am willing to make amends and I believe that I have never contributed badly or destructively in this topic. So while users such as User: Muboshgu will call me biased and others such as User:HJ Mitchell will find this concerning, I refute this strongly. If anything, I believe that throughout the page’s construction, others, possibly including the person who referred me here (hypocrite anyone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1180084227?), have been acting very much worse than me with more one-sided edits and wild accusations such as ‘blood libel’ (can’t remember who that was) in the talk page. I feel that in receiving a punishment I am the victim of a collective punishment. This is wrong. I admit I was naive when I received a harsh (as admitted by the person who gave it to me) GENSEX ban, and it is in my opinion wrong to bring it into the result.

Please hear my case.

Edit: sorry if my statement is too long, this was not intended.

• Fair enough on that. I take that point. Also, I invited you to read my statement which proves that I have considered my conduct and found some of it wanting. What you say is in part hurtful and not true, and I’d like you to consider how your message came across. Please read my full statement and do not let that one mistake of mine (my only defence is that I was driven to this by a harsh ban and was sad about how things turned out with this editor who seems to bear something against me despite their own questionable conduct which you have not addressed) make up your entire definition of me. Also, I’ve put so much time into this site, making a list of articles much better and more expansive as you can see on my talk page (User:Scientelensia). I have also created a good page. I’ve put so much effort into this that I would really be sad to be banned because of one desperate mistake when I am being the only one out of a collective group being punished :(

Yes, I have done some wrong but looking on the Genocide against Palestinians page you can see that others who are not being punished our doing much worse. I’m anxious of a result and quite unhappy as I believe I deserve another chance and believe that the user who referred me here may also be in the wrong (see all the statements above).

Please read my statement… Scientelensia (talk) 20:53, 17 October 2023 (UTC) Moved from uninvolved admins' section. Threaded discussion is not permitted at AE, please comment only in this section. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 20:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC) [reply]

Statement by Iskandar323

First off, yes. Scientelensia would do well do curb their accusations of bias. We all have bias, we all know it (hopefully), and though this is plainly obvious, constantly accusing other editors of bias does not adhere to AGF or general principles of civility and is a distraction from the activity of actually editing. At the same time, I find it disheartening that Drsmoo would raise this AE just two months after being cautioned in an extremely similar filing

@

Iskandar323 (talk) 16:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

For other installments of Drsmoo's

Iskandar323 (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

That entire talk page is full of accusations of racism, blood libel (!), antisemitism, and bias. Drsmoo said he did not see those instances, which kind of surprises me as he responded in a thread that opened with an accusation it was made (by Buidhe for the record) in "abuse of power in order to manipulate public opinion regarding current Israel-Hamas war. Raises serious concerns regarding potential political motives that seeks to legitimize Hamas actions against Israelis." All users should focus on the article content, but this selective outrage is just too much. Given something like this remains on the talk page with no admonishment to be found.

Oh and, eyeroll emoji. nableezy - 15:14, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You changed it to "ones biases", not sure I see anywhere that was struck. The point is accusations of bias are common, including occasionally by your good self. They dont necessitate running here when actual accusations of straight up racism and blood libel are being bandied about without an eyebrow being batted. nableezy - 16:00, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Muboshgu

I just reverted an edit by this user exhibiting their pro-Palestinian bias on Kathy Hochul.[1] They may not be able to participate in Israeli/Palestinian articles and discussions on Wikipedia. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:48, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by A Quest for Knowledge

To play devil's advocate, Scientelensia is a somewhat(?) new editor who made their first edit on November 13 of last year.[2] It's possible that they don't understand things like

Less of the bias stuff would be good. Afaics, the edit referred to by Muboshgu has been reintroduced and is not something I would get overly excited about on its own. As for being provocative take a look at the filer here. A warning is sufficient I think. Selfstudier (talk) 13:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Scientelensia

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• The conduct here might merit a warning – but really, I think NOTFORUM is just being trampled on up and down the page. Just to spitball, is there something a consensus of admins here can do to enforce talk page standards? All the discussion around vague accusations of non-neutrality where no one is actually focused on proving it (by showing that the current set of sources constitute undue weight) seems to be making discussion of the article unproductive. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 21:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @

  notaforum}}. Quick and decisive action is the best way to keep it under control in my experience. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• I'm certainly concerned that Scientelensia seems to be stating that they intend to continue making the personalized remarks. I very much agree that they have not been the only offender in that regard, and that perhaps a more general solution for that talk page (maybe limiting each editor to a certain number of posts per discussion?) may also be necessary. But, Scientelensia, maybe you intend your "just sayin'" type remarks to be helpful in some way, but they are clearly not being received like that and will need to stop. I'm concerned that if you don't intend to do that, we'll very shortly find ourselves back here if we just issue a warning. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 03:24, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Muboshgu's diff is concerning. Casually labelling other editors "biased" while making blatantly one-sided edits like that shows either an intent to disrupt or a remarkable lack of self awareness, either of which is incompatible with editing in a contentious topic. I also note that Scientelensia is already subject to a GENSEX topic ban so they should be even more careful. An indef ARBPIA-wide topic ban might be a little over the top but I don't think we can wrap this up without some sort of tangible sanction. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:20, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @Scientelensia I'm very confused. How on Earth did you find a a nearly-fourteen-year old complaint about the filer at a noticeboard that hasn't existed for over a decade? And what do you think it proves, except possibly that your battleground mentality drives you to dig up ancient dirt on your opponents instead of considering that there may be issues with your own conduct? If you really can't see the problem with the content you added to a biography of a living person, then I question not just whether you should be editing the Arab-Israeli topic area but whether you should be editing Wikipedia at all. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @Theleekycauldron and @Seraphimblade FYI, I've brought this back from the archive. As I said on my talk page, if we're not going to get a consensus among us for anything more than a logged warning then I'll support that, but I do feel the conduct here rises to the level that some sort of action is necessary, especially considering that Scientelensia has been sanctioned in another contentious topic already. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I will not object to something like a topic ban from the area, or at least a section of it. I was quite unimpressed by the initial response here, which basically amounted to "Well, I'll keep doing it anyway", and with that on top of already having received one sanction, I don't think a lot of leeway is called for. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 14:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I was also rather dismayed by the conduct I saw here. If you want to put down a topic ban, I think that's reasonable. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:07, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @HJ Mitchell: Do you intend to TBAN here? It seems that no one else objects, but also no one else is inclined to pull the trigger themself. If you've changed your mind, I think this can close as a logged only-warning. Up to you. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 19:06, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @Tamzin I hope Scientelensia has seen the error of their ways. I've been mulling this over for a couple of days. I can live with a final/only warning if we're clear that strong sanctions are the next step. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:21, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Zanahary

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:47, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Zanahary (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#ARBPIA_General_Sanctions

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 17:53, 1 November 2023 source misrepresentation
2. 18:13, 1 November 2023 personal attack in response to my saying why I did not simply revert their misrepresentation
3. 20:39, 1 November 2023 declining to correct the issue

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

N/A

If

WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics

)

Notified of the sanctions on 19 October, removed and assumed read shortly after, with later acknowledgment of understanding of the policies

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The user is misrepresenting a source, which specifically says violence was carried out against suspected collaborators, and another user agreed was correct. Instead of correcting the issue, the user is engaged in OR (again) and personal attacks (linked above). I assumed good faith that they would correct an issue when brought to their attention, they have declined to do so. Source misrepresentation is not a content issue, it is a behavioral one as this board has previously found. nableezy - 20:47, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nowhere in the cited source does it mention any resistance whatsoever. It is a blatant misrepresentation, and it is misrepresented further here. Here is the source. Search for the word resistance. Every instance of "resistance" in the full report is a quote about those doing the executing, not the executed. Nowhere does it say anything like torture and execute alleged members of Palestinian resistance. It is a straight forward misrepresentation of the source. nableezy - 21:02, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As they have now corrected the issue, despite continuing the protesting about the issue even existing, Im fine withdrawing this. nableezy - 21:05, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead Zanahary (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Zanahary

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Zanahary

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Zanahary

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning GWA88

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Carter00000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:14, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

GWA88 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Under Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4

General

1. 25 October Undid revert of edit made by IP per
   WP:ARBECR
   , claiming unjustified content removal. Despite content being malformed and over-linked, did not recognize or correct after re-adding.
2. 18 October Incorrectly marked content change as minor edit. This occurs frequently, with many edits which are not minor marked as minor.
3. 16 October Removed content claiming it was covered in the previous day, when had not been covered.
4. 15 October Removed slightly misspelt content, claiming wording for entire entry was nonsensical.

Diffs for two individual incidents are presented:

Incident 1

1. 10 October Edit-warred over merging a entry which was originally added by user as a second part.
2. 11 October
   WP:EDITCON
   .
3. 11 October
   WP:EDITCON
   .
4. 11 October
   WP:EDITCON
   consensus was invalid ..general practice or not the fact remains... 

Incident 2

1. 10 October Added
   WP:OR
   not supported by source, asserting militant groups were led by Hamas. Article makes no mention of other militant groups other than Hamas.
2. 10 October Edit-warred over revert of assertion, violating
   WP:CT/A-I
   . Adds new source which still does not support assertion.
3. 10 October Adds a third source, which still does not support assertion. While source mentioned groups working together, no reference was made to being led by Hamas.

Under Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe

1. 19 October Incorrectly marked content change as minor edit.
2. 18 October Edit-warred on entry in contentious topic, after being blocked for edit-warring on topic.
3. 6 September Makes a frivolous request to
   WP:GSRUSUKR
   . IP was blocked independently by an admin and noted on the RFPP request.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any:

1. 9 July Blocked from the Portal Namespace for 2 weeks for edit-warring as a
   WP:AN3
   report filed against me. I was also blocked.

User continued to edit-war as per diffs above. In another incident, User displayed

WP:IDHT when warned, refusing to admit edit warring, despite warning in the result

of the AN3 Report try to convince others to re-add it for you through pure discussion, not a single revert.

If

WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics

)

WP:CT/A-I (Notice)

WP:CT/EE (Notice)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

User has persistent

WP:CIR

issues, not understanding basic concepts, despite almost 9,000 edits over nine years.

1. Claimed that consensus is needed to remove content [3], [4].
2. Failed to understand WP:NOCONSENSUS.
3. Claimed only 3RR counts as edit-warring.
4. Claimed that including rationale in edit summary exempts discussion.

The user primarily edits in pages on current events, frequently overlapping with contentious topics. This is of special concern, given the issues presented above.

@Black Kite & Tamzin, To clarify, both myself and GWA88 were blocked by ToBeFree in early July as a result of a 3RR filing. The recent block was an independent action by HJ Mitchell and did not involve GWA88.

I don't think it's appropriate to consider this filing retaliatory, given that almost four months had gone by with no further action from me, and that we were both sanctioned equally in the block. I further note that both prior to and after the initial block, I've made my concerns with GWA88's editing clear with warnings and discussions when issues arose. Carter00000 (talk) 08:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@

Iskandar323, I was the second user [5]

to make that revert, and despite an active talk page, no one replied on the discussion to oppose the revert.

Standard practice is to group together events that are closely related into a single entry. For example, on January 1, 3, and 27, we use only one entry for multiple/preceding milestones.

The purpose of the page is to present a high-level overview of world events; if excessively granular entries are used, it will become lengthy and unfocused. Carter00000 (talk) 08:52, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• Notification

Discussion concerning GWA88

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by GWA88

I'm sorry but this seems like blatant

Furthermore, I would just like any admin seeing this to take a look at my overall contributions, and not just the diffs cited. You can see I'm just an editor who has made thousands of good faith edits over a decade, and I've always tried to steer clear of drama on Wikipedia and stick to my hobby of editing, which is why I rarely if ever leave messages on user's talkpages. And with regards to dispruting Wikipedia, I've had very few disputes in this last year, and the only notable one was with Carter00000, the author of this request. I'll admit, I'm not as savvy at Wikilawyering as Carter00000, but I always try my best to stick to the general guidelines. I hope you close this without a sanction as I do believe this is also motivated by some sort of personal grudge against me. Thank you. GWA88 (talk) 17:50, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Iskandar323 (uninvolved)

I inspected this filing, and upon looking at "Incident 1" what jumped out at me was how absolutely correct GWA88 was, in A) correctly placing events in their verifiable chronological setting, and B) clearly outlining the undeniable logic of it (presumably when prompted) - that the OP thinks these edits are problematic, and indeed, reverted this fix, in defiance of any obvious common sense when editing a timeline of dated events, well, this hints more at

• This appears to be to be a retaliatory filing after the filer was previously blocked from the Portal namespace; note that all the "evidence" above is from that area. Pinging HJ Mitchell as the previous administrator involved. Black Kite (talk) 10:51, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I've seen this but haven't had time to look into it properly yet. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:20, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I agree that this looks retaliatory—a grab-bag of flyspecking over minor issues, as payback for getting him blocked. I'm inclined to reinstate Carter's p-block from portalspace indefinitely, and would be open to an IBAN as well. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 05:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I will grant that this isn't payback for the most recent dispute. It being merely payback for an older dispute doesn't hugely move the needle, though. Might make me a bit less interested in IBANning. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 17:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Carter00000 has a history of abusing of user-conduct processes in retaliation against detractors; I've blocked them indefinitely. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:56, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• I have to agree with TLC's block for disruptive editing. Carter00000 has a history of fraught interactions with other editors and making mountains out of molehills and has unfortunately become a bit of a timesink. Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 14:02, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see

Appealing user

ghostlystatic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Ghostlystatic (talk) 04:24, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed

General ban

Administrator imposing the sanction

ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Yeah I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 04:39, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ghostlystatic

I am a Jewish person and I said some uncivil things to people who I believed wanted to hide the 10/07 attacks from the Pogrom page because they wanted to downplay what happened. I didn't mean to be uncivil, but I can only play the NPOV game for so long, especially when there are some editors on here that complain that they openly can't support Palestinian terrorist groups. Kind of biased and NPOV as it is. I like this encyclopedia. If you decide to ban me, I won't stop liking it. Ghostlystatic (talk) 04:24, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by scottishfinnishradish

Use your discretion they said. Certainly it won't create even more time sinks. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 04:39, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by ghostlystatic

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)

Result of the appeal by ghostlystatic

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• This one's more clear-cut than the above. Willful ECR violations through non-constructive edits after being notified of the restriction, consistently combative tone. Decline, and given the timewasting nature of this combative appeal, disallow new appeals for at least 2 months. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 04:55, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Restored from archive; if no one else has anything to say I'll close this in a day or two. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 07:35, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Calling people antisemites isn't exactly conducive to collaborative editing. Agree with Tamzin. Galobtter (talk) 17:54, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Appealing user

Infinity Knight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Infinity Knight (talk) 06:41, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed

You are indefinitely

topic-banned

from the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed.

You have been sanctioned because you have repeatedly attempted to weaponize administrative processes within the topic area, after a previous warning:

1. Attempt to sanction topic-area opponent for policy-compliant edit (I AGF on this one, but presented for context)
2. civil POV-pushing
   in an attempt to sanction a topic-area opponent
3. Attempt to sanction the same opponent as in (1), under the same misapplication of policy, for conduct that was even less objectionable than the first time.
4. More selective misapplication of policy, this time against the admin who told you that you were wrong in (3)

Administrator imposing the sanction

Tamzin (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator : [6]

Statement by Infinity Knight

1. Regarding (1) & (3), I visited Tamzin's talk page under sub-section titled Inquiry I used the phrase "Are there any concerns related to original research? Your input is appreciated" It is important to note that my intention did not involve advocating for any sanctions against another user.
2. Regarding (4), I acknowledge that exercised poor judgment in relation to (4). I am fully aware that the comment "Is this like a regular thing they do?" was unwarranted. However, it is essential to emphasize that I did not endeavor to "misrepresent policy".

Galobtter, I wish to bring to your attention the comment by Riposte97 appears to hold relevance. Infinity Knight (talk) 05:56, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tamzin

Keeping in mind that (1) is presented on background, we have three cases here of attempting to weaponize Wikipedia processes in opposition to topic-area opponents or, in the last case, an administrator they perceive as one. I can AGF that Infinity Knight is not actively trying to use the system to promote their preferred POV, but even if that is the case, they've shown that they lack the ability to participate in administrative processes about this topic area with due detachment. (I did briefly consider a TBAN only from admin processes regarding ARBPIA, but deemed that unworkable.) I think Bishonen's warning was exceptionally generous, and I wish Infinity Knight would have borne more in mind the comic that Bish linked. Comments like It is important to note that my intention did not involve advocating for any sanctions against another user, regarding a message on an admin's talk page raising a potential policy violation by a user the admin has previously sanctioned, are a continuation of the behavior that Bishonen described. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 07:45, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Infinity Knight

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Riposte97

I initially made this comment on Infinity Knight's talk page, prior to this appeal. It struck me as unfair that a person apparently genuinely trying to adhere to policy should be sanctioned. I reproduce it here:

@Tamzin - I have some concerns about this action.

It seems to me that reasons (1) and (3) ought more properly to be construed as asking for advice/comment, not asking you to take some kind of action against another editor. The quoted text under reason (4) says that the administrator in question might seem to be doing certain things. It's a conditional statement which I'd hardly call a wilful misrepresentation of policy. Ironically, it may just be uncivil.

We are also potentially stretching the meaning of 'uninvolved administrator' when the user's comments in (1) and (3) were directed to you, and you participated in the conversation in (4) in opposition to the opinion offered by @Infinity Knight.

Finally, there is a real question about whether any of the four reasons cited actually fall within Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#Definition of the "area of conflict". To my reading they do not, though granted, I am relatively new here.

Riposte97 (talk) 07:03, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)

Result of the appeal by Infinity Knight

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I encountered Infinity Knight in July 2021 at User talk:Infinity Knight#A-I discretionary sanctions notification and the immediately following User talk:Infinity Knight#Talk:Mondoweiss section. There has been too much wasted time dealing with this user and an indefinite block might be appropriate. At any rate, I would decline the current appeal. Johnuniq (talk) 08:53, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Decline the appeal, per my previous comment already endorsing the block. Galobtter (talk) 00:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Appealing user

Jaydoggmarco (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction being appealed

Two-week block under BLP CTOP procedure

Administrator imposing the sanction

HJ Mitchell (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a

diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification. I am aware. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:31, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

I didn't violate an arbitration decision on Zoe McLellan because the noticeboard discussion on whether or not to include the info of her child abduction case has not made a decision or reached a consensus to include or not include the information. Jaydoggmarco (talk) 11:10, 2 November 2023 (UTC) copied from talk page HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:30, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by HJ Mitchell

Statement by caeciliusinhorto

By my count Jaydoggmarco made nine reverts on this page in well under 12 hours: [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15]. Even if this weren't a contentious topic, any admin would be well within their discretion to block here. Whether or not a consensus had or had not been reached, there's no justification for reverting nine times in the face of edits by four different editors. They clearly know about the rules on editwarring: they invoked it at

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)

Result of the appeal by Jaydoggmarco

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• This is plainly a reasonable sanction. Edit warring against multiple other editors over contentious BLP material in the face of
  WP:BLPRESTORE is clearly sanctionable. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:13, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• This is the third time the appellant was blocked for edit warring, so it is fair enough to have a longer block of two weeks. The appeal does not indicate that the reasons for the block will not happen again. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:52, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see

Appealing user

AtypicalPhantom (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) –

Sanction being appealed

Indefinite block for frequent ECR violations,

WP:NOTAFORUM violations [16]

Administrator imposing the sanction

ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

I know, I copied this over for them. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:55, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by AtypicalPhantom

Hello. It seems I have been permanently banned from editing Wikipedia because of my conduct in the Israel-Hamas conflict page. I am not sure what got me banned specifically, but I would like some transparency if possible. I don't make inflammatory comments, and my last comment was to 0300 objective. I was merely adding context to his comment which in of itself was pretty inflammatory. I see multiple users on that talk page, specifically 0300 objective, who are openly pushing their agenda rather harshly, and I obviously have a pro-Israel lean, but I am respectful with my comments. Having a nuanced discussion is integral to Wikipedia. My comment was to shed light on what was a misunderstanding. With that said, if anything I have said is overtly disallowed, I accept that, and I apologize. I can still contribute meaningfully to Wikipedia and I can exclude myself from the Israel-Hamas conflict page. I would like for the adjudicators to reevaluate my ban. If you come to the same conclusion after reevaluating my activity, you can ban me from discussing this topic, but at least grant me the opportunity to contribute to other articles.AtypicalPhantom (talk) 00:23, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Copied from their talk page per their request here and here. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If it is possible to reply to the admin, I want to say that it isn't true that I am not here to create an encyclopedia. My account is recent, but it predates 10/7. I have niche interests and I had a plan to create several new scientific articles. It's just that the recent conflict sucked up most of my time. AtypicalPhantom (talk) 15:31, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish

I probably could have gone with a NOTHERE block and avoided this, but since most of the edits were in ARBPIA I went with that. [17] [18] shows the caliber of edits we're dealing with. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:09, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war. How much time should be spent on each of these editors to help them learn to edit a topic area they are prohibited from editing? At this point there is far too much unconstructive editing by non-ec accounts to attempt to mentor each of them. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3#At wit's end is the finding of fact that led to these draconian sanctions. Rampant socking and uncontrollable disruptive editing have led to this point. I would love to try spend the time to help these editors, but given the opportunity cost I think preventing disruption by enforcing the existing sanction is the best bet. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:10, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

I did not comment on the use of the image. I commented on the applicability of an argument when discussing the use of an image and the venue to discuss the use of an image. Per

WP:INVOLVED, One important caveat is that an administrator who has interacted with an editor or topic area purely in an administrative role, or whose prior involvements are minor or obvious edits that do not show bias, is not involved and is not prevented from acting in an administrative capacity in relation to that editor or topic area. Warnings, calm and reasonable discussion and explanation of those warnings, advice about community norms, and suggestions on possible wordings and approaches do not make an administrator involved. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:13, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

Only commenting as I was mentioned by the appealing user. I endorse the block. But I personally don’t have a problem with an A-I TBan for AtypicalPhantom, perhaps after a cooling off period and assuming they see the problem. I say this despite their comment: specifically 0300 objective, who are openly pushing their agenda rather harshly which is interesting considering my Jewish heritage. My agenda is follow WP policies. I like the idea of a Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war/Edit requests page if ECPing the TP is not implemented. Never seen so many one edit users enter a discussion. And I thought AP2 was bad. O3000, Ret. (talk) 20:33, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AtypicalPhantom: I realize that you are new but I should add that if you reference someone at AE, particularly in a less than complimentary fashion, you should ping them. O3000, Ret. (talk) 22:22, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by SPECIFICO

I’m not familiar with the most recent discussions on this article page, but I briefly edited the article, which has lots of problems. Notwithstanding the disorderly process on that page, this AE individual's appeal should not be the place to discuss the larger need for improvements to the page restriction or AE process, which should proceed in their own space.

Looking at some of appellant’s edits, I see various good-faith content views that are reasonable but which would be strengthened by documentation and source links. I also see some personalized comments that are clearly off-limits for article talk, that undermine the appellant’s content arguments, and that merit an AE sanction.

Per

I don’t see that Appellant’s edit here, while poorly worded, is so disruptive as to be deleted by another user or Admin. It would help a new editor to improve their talk page conduct to know exactly why certain of their edits is not allowed. All in, I would favor a TBAN of a week or two during which I hope Admins or others would advise the appellant as to

P.S. While it's true for each individual Admin that time spent on tutoring and support of new users does take away from time spent on enforcement or other Admin roles - opportunity cost - this is not true for the Admin corps as a whole. There are hundreds of Admins who are not actively day-to-day engaged in patrolling AE or vandalism whose time may not be fully occupied on those tasks.

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by AtypicalPhantom

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by (uninvolved editor Infinity Knight)

Was pointed to this discussion here. When it comes to the dilemma of viewing newcomers as a "waste of editors' time," my preference is for administrators to give the "let's provide them with guidance" approach a shot. If we start seeing new editors as a time sink, how's the topic area ever gonna draw in any new contributors? Infinity Knight (talk) 19:43, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for reply. I hopped into this discussion after I spotted an IP contributor who provided a valuable reference, but later, the IP was struck out. I get that the current approach saves time, but it makes me wonder how the topic area will ever attract new contributors. Infinity Knight (talk) 20:25, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So, the admin who's doing the blocking might seem to be commenting on both how folks are behaving and whether the content, like using a certain image, is cool or not. Is this like a regular thing they do? It kind of looks like the way things are going right now might be eating up a lot of the community's time instead of just helping out newcomers. Infinity Knight (talk) 15:31, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Hemiauchenia

I endorse the block and I don't think the appeal is enough to remove it. While the disruption by non-autoconfirmed and to a lesser extent non ECP users is significantly reduced than it was when the 7 day semi-protection was implemented on the 16 October, largely due to the decrease in viewers as the war progresses, I wouldn't oppose semi-protecting the page again, especially if there is an uptick in commenters following the Israel ground offensive. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nableezy

Infinity Knight's repeated attempts to insinuate wrongdoing or bias have become disruptive. They were given some useful advice by

I don't feel the appeal is sufficient. I note in particular this comment 'With that said, if anything I have said is overtly disallowed, I accept that, and I apologize'. AtypicalPhantom may be sincere but the problem is you need to understand where your comments are crossing the line what than just "if" you did. I appreciate this is a lot more difficult if you cannot engage because you're indefinitely blocked but I do think a better understanding of where you went wrong is required for any appeal. Perhaps this partly explains User:Aoidh's obvervation. I'd also add that especially in an CT area, editors really should aim to stay well away from the line rather than just avoiding stuff that is over the line ("overtly disallowed"). And in fact the nature of WP:Civility etc is even if a singular comment isn't over the line repeated questionable comments may push your behaviour past the bounds of what's allowed. Nil Einne (talk) 09:56, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (uninvolved editor 5)

Result of the appeal by AtypicalPhantom

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Non-constructive comments are not covered by the talkpage exception to ARBECR, and several of AP's comments were non-constructive, so this is a valid exercise of admin discretion. It's harsh, but that talkpage is a nightmare and this user is clearly
  Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war. I'm tempted to ECP it for a few months, but there's some helpful edit requests coming in. Maybe ECP it but create a Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war/Edit requests, where non-EC users are confined to their own sections? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 03:25, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  I don't think many users would find that page easily, even if linked. In my experience most get to the edit request through trying to edit the page, and I don't know if we can redirect that workflow. Perhaps a large notice that any non-constructive edits or NOTAFORUM violations will result in an immediate one month block from the talk page? No one will read it, but at least we'll have tried. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 03:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Actually, after a moment of reconsideration, maybe that would help separate the wheat from the chaff. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 03:33, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Yeah, that's sort of my thinking. Some less-motivated non-ECs failing to find the request page would probably be a net-positive. That said, the workflow could be redirected if we wanted by adding a special case option to line 57 of Special:Edit/Template:Protected page text. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 03:58, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  That talk page is a dumpster fire, but the dumpster fire isn't going anywhere. It'll die down when the conflict does and reignite somewhere else later. The Arab-Israeli conflict on Wikipedia heats and cools with the real-life conflict; you can correlate headline-grabbing moments in the conflict's history almost exactly with the AE log. I remember having similar conversation around the Gaza flotilla raid in 2010 and that's just history now. We may just have to ride out the storm and deal with the inevitable disruption case by case. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:50, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I think a big difference between these situations is the project-wide extended-confirmed restriction in place now. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:42, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  That's partly my point. ECP didn't exist back then, or during the many flare-ups between then and ARBPIA4, and yet Wikipedia is still here. It's tempting to think that the immediate situation is intractable, but everything becomes history eventually. I'm not opposing more draconian measures per se, just urging caution and perspective. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:57, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't believe the situation is intractable, rather that the current situation with the sanction as with isn't working as intended. If we want it to work as intended we'll have to take further steps. The point is to avoid flare-ups and ARBPIA5. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I'd support ECPing it. Looking at the new editor contributions, they generally seem to rehash discussions and add more heat to a topic that doesn't need it. Anything to make this page more manageable.. Galobtter (talk) 00:19, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse as clearly an appropriate action; I saw the immediate cause unfold on my watchlist and was considering similar action myself but SFR beat me to it. Given what sounds like a sincere appeal and an inexperienced editor, I wouldn't lose sleep over a conditional unblock with an ARBPIA topic ban (indefinite but reviewable in a few months once the current escalation is not so immediate). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:51, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Talk page ECP protected. I don't see any clear disagreement amongst admins, and if this is the quality of comments we're getting from unregistered or newly-registered users, then as SFR says, we might as well separate the wheat from the chaff. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:28, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks, Ritchie. Looks like {{Protected page text}} detects that the talk page is also protected and directs people to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Edit. Hopefully that page doesn't get too much bad requests. Galobtter (talk) 14:22, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Making
  WP:ARBPIA (e.g. [19]) look similarly problematic. Galobtter (talk) 14:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• I hadn't made the connection that Infinity Knight—who's now twice come to my talkpage to try to get the same topic-area opponent sanctioned for
  WP:NOR, even after I explained that that policy did not apply, and now is alleging vague misconduct against ScottishFinnishRadish, who explained it the second time—was the same person that Bishonen warned at AN/I. Enough. I have indef-TBANned them from PIA as an individual admin action. This can be discussed in a separate thread if they appeal. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 16:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  You beat me to it - I was just writing a comment about how

  Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war has to be the last straw, and a TBAN seems necessary. I have to say, their accusations of incivility here are so far off the mark and so evocative of the last panel of sealioning that I would fully urge them again to read that comic. Fully endorse this sanction. Galobtter (talk) 16:27, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• AtypicalPhantom says in their statement above that I am respectful with my comments but this is not respectful of other editors. Their statement not only doesn't acknowledge that this is problematic behavior, but suggests that there is no such issue with their behavior. I have to endorse the block for this reason. - Aoidh (talk) 08:24, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Appealing user

HumilatedGoan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction being appealed

WP:PIA

topic area, after recent block for same

Administrator imposing the sanction

Tamzin (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Special:Diff/1183199439

Statement by HumilatedGoan

I want to acknowledge my mistakes in violating

I have copied the user's statement from their talk page as requested. I also must report that the user is believed to have a second account; please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/BlueFreee. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:06, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I also was distracted by the SPI after mostly filling this out, and saved before I realized that 331dot already declined the appeal on the user's talk page. I'm going to leave it to a reviewer to decide what to do about that. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:09, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tamzin

HG was warned to stop doing this, kept doing this without changing their behavior, and then sent me an appeal by email that was obviously written by AI. (If they dispute this characterization, I am happy to share the email with other admins.) This appeal does not, to me, show any understanding of what was wrong with what they did, or of why we can trust the issue won't recur. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 01:00, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by HumilatedGoan

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)

Result of the appeal by HumilatedGoan

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I agree with 331dot that this appeal is inadequate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:36, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Yes, although there is an apology, there is nothing to show the appellant understands what the problem was, or how they will avoid it in the future. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Given the result of the SPI and after looking at some of the contributions I don't think this is a block that cannot be successfully appealed, but I do think that the unblock statement that is given is insufficient. - Aoidh (talk) 09:06, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• The appeal and the associated apology are perfunctory and fail to address the substance of the problematic behavior. Tamzin's report that some AI thingie was used to write an email is of great concern. We do not need glib idiot robots interfering in our administrative procedures. Cullen328 (talk) 04:36, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Appealing user

Infinity Knight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Infinity Knight (talk) 19:39, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed

You are indefinitely

topic-banned

from the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed.

You have been sanctioned because you have repeatedly attempted to weaponize administrative processes within the topic area, after a previous warning:

1. Attempt to sanction topic-area opponent for policy-compliant edit (I AGF on this one, but presented for context)
2. civil POV-pushing
   in an attempt to sanction a topic-area opponent
3. Attempt to sanction the same opponent as in (1), under the same misapplication of policy, for conduct that was even less objectionable than the first time.
4. More selective misapplication of policy, this time against the admin who told you that you were wrong in (3)

Previous appeal

• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive324#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Infinity_Knight

Administrator imposing the sanction

• Tamzin (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• Johnuniq (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrators :

• [20]
• [21]

Statement by Infinity Knight

Regarding (1) & (3), I visited Tamzin's talk page under sub-section titled Inquiry I used the phrase "Are there any concerns related to original research? Your input is appreciated". I did not support or recommend imposing sanctions on another user.

Regarding (4), I acknowledge that exercised poor judgment in relation to (4). Tamzin mentioned that my involvement in administrative processes related to this topic area lacked the necessary detachment. Nevertheless, I hold the view that administrators should be accountable to the community. It is essential to emphasize that I did not endeavor to "misrepresent policy".

WikiKnight

, my main objective is to foster a positive and harmonious editing environment on Wikipedia while upholding the platform's fundamental content policies, such as neutrality, verifiability, and reliability.

Finally, I will abstain from commenting during AE discussions unless an administrator requests my input.

Having been part of this community for some time, I would value an impartial assessment of the provided diffs. Infinity Knight (talk) 04:08, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nableezy

Didnt we just do this? nableezy - 19:56, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tamzin

This catches me midway through my drive to WikiConference North America, so I can't respond at length, but I think my response to last week's appeal still applies. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 20:03, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Objective3000

I don't see how this materially differs from the previous appeal. As Johnuniq said in the that appeal: There has been too much wasted time dealing with this user….[22] I suggest they appeal after several months of editing in other areas. O3000, Ret. (talk) 20:40, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Infinity Knight

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)

Result of the appeal by Infinity Knight

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• This is the same appeal as the one declined last week. @Infinity Knight: unless you have substantive new material to provide this will at best be closed with no action. -- Euryalus (talk) 21:18, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Unless some significant new information is provided in the next day or so this should be speedily declined. I would also suggest requiring a minimum of six months quality editing in unrelated areas before the next appeal. Thryduulf (talk) 00:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Doing this over again after a week is pretty disruptive and shows blatant disregard for the time and patience of other editors. I strongly support Thryduulf's suggestion of six months of quality editing in unrelated areas, and/or in the
  sister projects, before the next appeal. At least. A block for disruptive editing isn't off the table either, AFAIC. Bishonen | tålk 20:50, 10 November 2023 (UTC).[reply
  ]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Brandmeister

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

KhndzorUtogh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Brandmeister (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 19:43, 7 November 2023 under the excuse of "rimming excessive details", Brandmeister removes any mention of Melikdoms of Karabakh, Siege of Stepanakert, and the Shusha massacre from the lead

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 23 October 2023 Page ban for 2023 Azerbaijani offensive in Nagorno-Karabakh and its associated subpages by Vanamonde

If

WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics

)

• A broad TBAN for Armenia-Azerbaijan articles was considered in the discussion for Brandmeister's page ban and Brandmeister linked the AA3 page when asking about the page ban's scope

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Last month, Brandmeister was given a page ban for an Armenia-Azerbaijan article, for making offensive statements (comparing ethnic cleansing victims to economic migrants), misciting sources to push a POV,

[25]

Discussion concerning Brandmeister

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Brandmeister

Regarding the edit in question

theleekycauldron, for the record, the wording "self-proclaimed Republic of Artsakh" is not my introduced change, it was already present in the article's previous version as edited by KhndzorUtogh. The Republic of Artsakh article itself defines it as a breakaway state. Brandmeister^talk 11:56, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that trimming of excessive background information from the lede by Brandmeister was selective. He removed the details that had no direct relation to the 2020 event, but left the part that said: Until the middle of the 19th century, the city was considered the cultural and political centre of the regional Azerbaijani population, as well as one of the two main cities of the Transcaucasus for Armenians. As one can see, significance for both Azerbaijani and Armenian population remained briefly mentioned after the edit by Brandmeister. The lede is not supposed to contain too much information on the history of the conflict, which I believe was the purpose of Brandmeister's edit. Grandmaster 09:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, "self-declared / self-proclaimed" is a regular term used to describe this entity by the mainstream international media, for example CNN: [26], BBC: [27], Al Jazeera: [28], Reuters: [29], The Financial Times: [30], The Washington Post: [31], etc. Grandmaster 14:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Brandmeister

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• The selective removal of information of information on ethnic cleansing from the third paragraph (removing reference to ethnic cleansing of Armenians but retaining the details of it happening to Azerbaijanis) is pretty clear POV pushing and shouldn't be tolerated. I'd support widening the topic ban to all Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict-related articles. Number 57 01:09, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Number 57 hits it on the head, plus they changed Artsakh to self-proclaimed Republic of Artsakh for not much reason. Support topic ban. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 10:11, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @Brandmeister: Sure, but why add in another reference to Artsakh being "self-proclaimed"? Does it need to be qualified at every mention? Your statement seems to boil down to "this was a completely neutral edit, nothing to see here", but I don't know that I buy that (despite some of the changes being uncontroversially positive). Why did you remove the references to the Shusha massacre of Armenians, but not the 1992 expulsion of Azeris? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 19:11, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Concur with my esteemed colleagues and fellow root vegetable. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• The edit itself doesn't raise any eyebrows for me. Pruning lead sections is a normal part of the editorial process. But making an edit you know is likely to be controversial, at a time when the article is about to increase in visibility, and when your conduct in the topic area is already under scrutiny strikes me as poor judgement at best and tendentious editing at worst. I'd be willing to listen to a defence but so far I see a good case for the proposed topic ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Per Number57, not acceptable - topic ban from the whole AA area. Enough is enough, I think. Black Kite (talk) 19:57, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• I agree with the other admins above - topic ban from the entire area seems sensible at this point. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request concerning SamwiseGSix

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Tgeorgescu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:02, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

SamwiseGSix (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPS

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. [32] 13 November 2023—whitewashing contrary to
   WP:PSCI
   ;
2. [33] 13 November 2023—whitewashing contrary to
   WP:PSCI
   ;
3. [34] 13 November 2023—whitewashing contrary to
   WP:PSCI
   .

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If

WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics

)

• Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [35] 29 October 2023 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

If Anthroposophy cannot be called pseudoscience and quackery, then nothing can.

@

 Administrator note Un-commented-out as caeciliusinhorto replied to this. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 18:10, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And the point of my mockery is not mocking them as a person, but showing that their POV is so utterly absurd for those from the reality-based community that it is highly incompatible with Wikipedia (see

About [36]: for me it is crystal-clear that they consider the guideline

"but not specifically warned against mentioning x-risk yet " ([37])? See [38]. This farce has gone too far.

I'm not mocking a living person, but a guru who died almost a century ago.

 Administrator note Un-commented-out as I replied to this. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 18:10, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@

Bona fide offer: [41]. I talk too much, so restricting the number of words is a good idea.

@Tamzin: There is a lot of vitriol in fringe/pseudoscience topics. I'm by far not the worst offender, many others go unnoticed. Sometimes I do feel offended by what other editors say about what should be included. Of course, that's not an excuse for mocking their POVs, but some POVs really do not belong at Wikipedia. And I don't have a neat solution for telling them that their POV is unwelcome.

@

I was wrong: some people don't want to learn that their POVs are unwelcome, nor what

My mistake is thinking that every newbie is eager to learn how to edit Wikipedia according to the

@Ealdgyth: I do recognize that my approach was wrong. Although I did not do it out of bad faith.

It was wrong for me to try to convince them they're mistaken.

I should have used dispute resolution instead of trying to convince them they're wrong.

I realize now that asking an antivaxxer or germ theory denialist to understand that their POV is doomed according to

I can get the point that my POV is unwelcome at abortion, other people can't.

racist pseudoscience wasn't my edit, but a result of a talk page discussion wherein several editors have participated. So, yeah, I would like to get the credit for that edit, but it wasn't in fact mine.

I'm not baiting the other party. I was simply explaining that my attempt to convince people of things they are not prepared to understand was wrong. I told them real facts about Wikipedia, but they cannot comprehend those facts. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• [43] 13 November 2023.

Discussion concerning SamwiseGSix

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by SamwiseGSix

Hello everyone - simply seeking a rational and reasonably balanced NPOV here leveraging mainstream academic research, as the first intro sentence of the second paragraph is currently classifying the topic of the article flatly and comprehensively as 'racist pseudoscience' despite the founder's many leading anti-racist statements for his time, as both academic critics and proponents acknowledge. A more balanced

In considering the science, a significant amount of peer reviewed academic research has been published empirically measuring the positive affects of applying these insights in fields including education (3000 Waldorf Schools around the world, NYTimes and Independent.co.uk coverage etc), environmental conservation (Rachel Carson 'Silent Spring' impact w/ Marjorie Spock et al), banking (economists co-published with admins at central banks etc) and more. Although some of the related ideas from the movement are classifiable as 'pseudoscientific' by today's standards (as the intro paragraph does) there are many aspects of the body of work here that are scientifically measurable by our academic standards and significant minority opinions today. The comprehensive and wholesale classification of the entire movement and body of knowledge as just flatly 'racist psuedoscience' [.] is then arguably very unfair, and very arguably does not adhere to Wikipedia's very important

I consistently

tgeorgescu says I have posted at WP:FTN and WP:RSN about it, but most people don't seem to care. I will note that I saw a couple of those threads but didn't engage. This one from RSN illustrates the issue nicely, I think. To open that thread, tgeorgescu linked to an ongoing discussion at Talk:Anthroposophy#Epistemology, Ontology etc, which at the time looked like this: 45kb wikitext, nearly 5000 words, 100+ comments almost exclusively of back-and-forth between tgeorgescu and SamwiseGSix. It isn't difficult to see why most editors did not want to engage in this. The point at which a talkpage discussion between two people who do not agree becomes unproductive is way before they've each made fifty comments. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 16:31, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning SamwiseGSix

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I recognize that keeping the pseudoscientists out is probably one of the longest standing aspects of Wikipedia subculture, but boy do I not like the conduct of either party at Talk:Anthroposophy. I'm not going to deny that a large extent of SamwiseGSix's contribs seem to be POV pushing against the scientific consensus (although, as one user noted in the RSN thread, they're doing so with what at a glance look to be rather reputable sources) – but goodness, tgeorgescu, an editor of your experience should know better than to spend that much time and ink mocking a new user's beliefs and throwing every template you can find at them (and apparently the contents of a whole essay). Stuff like this isn't exactly helpful, either. If you think you've found a troublemaker, and you can clearly see that talk page discussion isn't going to turn up positive results, post to a noticeboard or find an admin on your own. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 19:56, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I was gonna write out a whole thing, but Tamzin said it better. Tgeorgescu could've easily walked away from this whole situation with strong consensus for his version and maybe even sanctions for SamwiseGSix, depending on how unwilling they were to abide by that consensus. But instead, they bludgeoned their way through talk, RSN, and FTN, with a clear tone of disrespect and sometimes incivility – and then they doubled down on all of it here. A logged warning to the filer would be appropriate, and the polite suggestion seems reasonable given that there's not much of a case for something stronger. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 19:10, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @

  WP:CONTENTDISPUTE and picking the options you think are best. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:04, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• I'm going to go along with leeky here - when things start going around in circles in a discussion, the best thing to do is to get outside input. Frankly, I don't care enough to dig further into the details about what Anthroposophy IS to figure out if it is really fringe or not - not an area where I care to invest my time. But the way this dispute has been laid out, it doesn't make it easy for me to see that either editor is "wrong" enough to sanction. Frankly, tgeorgescu, your way to setting out the dispute is unhelpful. Why are you constantly quoting other editors - the use of quotes of other editors just serves to obscfurcate the issue rather than ellucidating it. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:15, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with a logged warning at the least. I could also go with a topic ban from the whole topic area of pseudoscience, but even if it's just a logged warning, I'd like for tgeorgescu to take on board that they need to stop the battleground approach to this topic area (that of pseudoscience broadly speaking) - we should not be mocking editors or subjects, no matter how wrong they are. If you think that mocking is needed, you've probably gotten into a battleground mindset and should step back until you don't feel the need to mock. 20:08, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

  Can I ask that both editors stop fidgeting with their statements, please? It's ... not helpful and it makes it hard to keep track of what's being said when it's constantly under flux. Ealdgyth (talk) 22:32, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Samwise - you need to stop making comments such as "If he is indeed whitewashing for such truly fascist and anti-human activity" or "which seems to make the filing editor uncomfortable" which is just as battlegroundy as the editor who filed this. A very good rule for editing conflicts is to NOT comment on the other editor or speculate on their motivations. We're not here to "win" a debate/battle/whatever. Given this - I'm inclined to warn both editors for battleground behavior. Please stop commenting on the other editor and stick to the sources. If you reach an sticking point - the steps/advice at

  WP:DISPUTE are helpful and good steps to take. Ealdgyth (talk) 01:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• @Tgeorgescu: Your comment that you are "not mocking a living person, but a guru who died almost a century ago" is illustrative of the disconnect here. We're not here to mock anyone. We're here to write an encyclopedia. Sometimes that involves debunking pseudoscience, in mainspace and on talkpages, sometimes in ways that would offend the purveyors of that pseudoscience, but Wikipedia is not a debate club or a skeptics' subreddit. As Ealdgyth says, if you're talking in circles, you should get feedback then, not after 5,000 words of debate. You don't get any points for "winning" the argument. Samwise suggested getting a third opinion on 30 October, and you responded by linking to two blog posts rather than taking them up on that.
  My overall take here is that this is a content dispute, and that, if discussion continues, both parties should be encouraged to seriously moderate the amount they write. Keep comments short and to the matter under discussion: "I think source X supports statement Y because Z"; "I think source X is actually unreliable because W". If one wants to debate the philosophical underpinnings of anthroposophy, or the failure of organic agriculture in Sri Lanka or whether arguments at Waldorf schools are the result of gnomes, there are plenty of forums online for that, but a Wikipedia talkpage is not one. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 02:06, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @

  battleground. There's some CTOPs where that perception might be inevitable, but I don't think this is one of them. The community is overwhelmingly anti-pseudoscience, and there is no organized effort to promote this particular fringe viewpoint on-wiki, as far as I can tell. (The related Waldorf education discretionary sanctions were repealed almost 2 years ago, having not been used since 2014.) Rather, this just reads like you brow-beating someone for being Wrong, jumping through tangentially related topics in order to score points, in a way that does not relate to building an encyclopedia. And it continues, in this thread! Where does atomic theory come into this? You're the one who brought that up, on three separate occasions now, which just seems like bait. The fact that you're continuing to argue all of this here, as I and others tell you that such conduct is unhelpful, is concerning. And I'm not saying Samwise's conduct is great, but it's hard to follow the logic for sanctions when it comes draped in layers of superiority. At this point I'm inclined to close this with a logged warning to you for disruptive editing in the form of excessive arguing and battleground conduct, and a polite suggestion to Samwise that their editing abilities may be better-suited elsewhere. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 18:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  @Tgeorgescu: Re your offer on my talk, I think such a sanction would be only, essentially, treating the symptoms. The issue isn't that you have extraordinarily strong feelings about anthroposophy. We have a broad but shallow issue here, not a deep but narrow one. Broad because it covers all of fringe/pseudoscience topics, shallow because this is something you can fix on your own without a need for any formal sanctions. And I guess I'll add a third, dimension: complex. Word count is only a proxy for the problem, and an imperfect one at that: There can be constructive discussions that run 5k+ words, and disruptive discussions that run only a few comments. The issue is how you are treating your peers, no more, no less. You are an experienced editor and I'm hoping that an AE warning could serve as a wake-up call that fighting pseudoscience is not an exception from our user conduct policies. You are still expected to have civil discussions on article talkpages built around what should or should not be in the article (not built on whether another user's actual or perceived POV is stupid, nor what other things they might believe), and to seek dispute resolution in a timely, civil, and non-bludgeoning fashion if you reach an impasse. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 19:33, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @SamwiseGSix: Ealdgyth already asked you to stop editing your comments after they've been replied to, and yet you continue [44] [45] [46]. If you keep doing so, I will block you from editing this page. (In the spirit of even-handedness, I'll put @Tgeorgescu on notice about this too, but I respect that he has not made any such edits since Ealdgyth's request, and appreciate this.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 01:43, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Okay, @SamwiseGSix and @Tgeorgescu, you're both well past your word count. Enough. Please don't comment again (including in response to this message) unless asked a direct question by an uninvolved admin. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 18:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I am uncomfortable with the amount of hostility in comments like the ones linked above, as well as "go away, don't waste our time with such nonsense" (at Talk:Anthroposophy). If someone is really so bad that they deserve comments like this, they're bad enough to warrant escalating the dispute, so why just sit there on the talk page and insult them? jp×g🗯️ 06:06, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request concerning 82.45.48.180

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Kathleen's bike (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

82.45.48.180 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 19:04, 23 October 2023 States as fact in Patrick Ryan (Irish priest) that he was a "terrorist", he is also a living person
2. 14:39, 30 October 2023 Repeats previous edit
3. 14:40, 30 October 2023 Repeats previous edit
4. 17:22, 13 November 2023 Repeats previous edit

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. Blocked on 03:21, March 31, 2023

If

WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics

)

Notifed at 14:44, October 30, 2023

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This editor has been using a variety of IP addresses since February 2023, including

Here

Discussion concerning 82.45.48.180

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by 82.45.48.180

Statement by (username)

Result concerning 82.45.48.180

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• This is a long history of nationalist POV-pushing across several IPs. A particularly troubling detail is that it's the same few kinds of edits each time (viz. terrorism-labeling, nationality-warring, and the fringe view that "British rule" is an inaccurate way to describe pre-Republic Ireland), showing that this editor is not taking the hint from reverts, nor from Ad Orientem's block in March. I am inclined to block the IP for 3 months, with the understanding that that should be treated as an indef against the editor behind the IP—but will hold back at least briefly to give them a chance to explain why such a sanction is not necessary to prevent disruption. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 05:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Agree with Tamzin here - unless the editor-behind-the-IP weighs in with something super-contrite-and-game-changing, a three month (or more) block seems sound. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Agree fully with my colleagues above; and I'd add that although I don't currently see a range block that would fix anything, that is an option we should keep in mind if further IPs pop up. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:46, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request concerning Based guyy

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Pppery (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:44, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Based guyy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPIA4

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 21:06, 16 November 2023 They make an edit to an Arab-Isreali conflict page despite not being extended-confirmed, although they aren't aware at this point
2. 17:08, 17 November 2023 They reinstate the edits after my revert
3. 21:17, 17 November 2023 They reinstate the edits again (also violating 1RR)

If

WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics

)

• Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 02:41, 17 November 2023‎ (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This may be a

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

User talk:Based guyy#Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion

Discussion concerning Based guyy

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Based guyy

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Based guyy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Blocked one week for the clear-cut ARBPIA violations. I also notice they've devoted a fair amount of attention to Balkan conflict topics and have issued an ARBEE warning as well, although I have not examined these edits in depth. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Vaikunda Raja

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Robert McClenon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Vaikunda Raja (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/India-Pakistan#Contentious_topic_designation

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Vaikunda Raja requests

A lengthy reply which ends I would like to suggest experienced users here to act responsibly., perhaps implying that declining the request is irresponsible: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ADeletion_review%2FLog%2F2023_November_2&diff=1183153859&oldid=1183141620

Another call to act responsibly: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ADeletion_review%2FLog%2F2023_November_2&diff=1183155615&oldid=1183153859

A rambling post that says nothing: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ADeletion_review%2FLog%2F2023_November_2&diff=1183335678&oldid=1183256322

Admits that their lack of command of English may contribute to excessive length of posts: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ADeletion_review%2FLog%2F2023_November_2&diff=1183486377&oldid=1183485221

Another reply, which is by this point in

A long argument with Daniel, who had said to leave the article deleted rather than restore it: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ADeletion_review%2FLog%2F2023_November_2&diff=1185845826&oldid=1185776564

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

None to the best of my knowledge

If

WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics

)

• Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 15 February 2023:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AVaikunda_Raja&diff=1139453247&oldid=1134585236

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This editor is

The DRV is at Wikipedia:Deletion_review#Annamalai_Kuppusamy.

The AFD is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/K. Annamalai (I.P.S).

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AVaikunda_Raja&diff=1185934338&oldid=1171460010

Discussion concerning Vaikunda Raja

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Vaikunda Raja

Statement by Cryptic

As the user directly being bludgeoned at in some of the diffs above - and having just stumbled across this quite by accident - I advise leniency. This didn't directly affect any articles, it was well within DRV participants' ability to handle, and part of the fault was mine: since I read DRV mostly in diffs, I didn't immediately recognize the google links in the initial drv request as attempts to link to coverage in specific news sources and so was more dismissive than I ought to have been in

• Closing with no action per Cryptic's comment and the fact that the DRV is closed.RegentsPark (comment) 18:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Wee Curry Monster

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Wee Curry Monster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#ARBPIA_General_Sanctions (1RR)

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 11:20, 21 November 2023 revert of this
2. 11:25, 20 November 2023 revert of this

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

N/A

If

WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics

)

• reported a user for 1RR
• Notified of the CT designation

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I would have left this unreported, but the user declined to self revert and simply removed the notification on their user talk of the violation. Additionally, the second revert listed here was removed on such spurious grounds that had there already been an ARBPIA notification prior to it I think it would have merited sanctions by itself, with a user claiming a video that the NYTimes says they conducted extensive independent verification of was obviously faked ... appallingly bad acting. But regardless of that, this is a 1RR violation that the user has declined to correct.

asking that you stop repeating the offensive claims that Palestinians are faking their suffering and that nothing they report can be trusted isn’t baiting, it’s asking you to stop providing your personal opinions on talk pages. nableezy - 21:11, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

im fine with that too. nableezy - 23:58, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Wee Curry Monster

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Wee Curry Monster

I didn't believe I'd violated the 1RR restriction. As far as editing goes, I have long maintained a personal policy of sticking to 1RR in general. The only exception is to revert obvious vandalism.

[47] I removed what I genuinely believed were fake videos, that were self-published on Instagram and appeared to be a violation of

This was clearly a

I was then subjected to personal attacks eg [49] by the person making this report. These seem to be an attempt to bait me, so after I initially responded I disengaged leaving Nableezy to have the

It is also untrue that I was continuing to make a non-policy based argument for removal. I made no further argument for removal, I was responding to comments, which I now recognise was a mistake. I also further clarified this morning I was not arguing for removal or intending to make a case for removal. [52]. I invite AE to make their own conclusion why my comments are being misrepresented

[53] yes this is a revert, 1RR. I have no intention of making further reverts per my personal policy. I also note that it misrepresents what the person said by omitting crucial context.

I also clarified my misunderstanding of 1RR with

On my talk page, I have long had a policy of removing notices, I don't tend to archive them, there is a clear message on my page to that effect.

I drew attention to this in my edit summary [54] rm per my normal policy.

If I were to acknowledge a mistake here, which is worthy of a

To amplify my statement, I realise that 1RR is interpreted strictly by AE in this area, understand the reasons for the restriction and why it is enforced rigorously. I'll also acknowledge my intention to review warnings with more care in future and to fully abide by the ARBPIA restrictions. I'll also be much more careful in future to make sure I don't inadvertently cross a line. I already take a strict view on reversions, with a personal restriction to 1RR that I've maintained for nearly 10 years, I will be doubly wary in future. WCM_email 22:03, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Wee Curry Monster

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• @Wee Curry Monster: Technically, Nableezy is correct, you violated the 1RR. It may not be the same content and I would believe that you had no intention of violating it. We perhaps take a stricter definition of it in ARBPIA than other areas. Now that you know that, and now that it's been pointed out that the video has been verified by a reliable source, would you care to revise your statement? Given that this is your first trip here related to ARBPIA, I'd be happy to chalk this up to a misunderstanding as long as I can be sure that the misunderstanding is resolved. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:29, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Given WCM's additional statement (which just hit the top of my watchlist, hence the very quick response), I don't see a need for formal action here. They seem to have got the point and there's nothing to stop anyone re-reporting if necessary in the future. I'll leave it open overnight (UTC) in case any other admin wants to comment but I intend to close with no action if there are no objections. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:06, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I would agree with HJ Mitchell's proposed resolution. While there was a violation, it appears to have been quite unintentional, and now that it's been made clear I don't think there will be a repeat. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 22:16, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• I am in agreement with HJ Mitchell's proposed resolution as well. --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 23:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• I think we're going to close this without action, though fault was found--I'm sure Wee Curry Monster will be more careful next time. I will say this: I have no doubt that some of the tone by Nableezy and perhaps others can be explained by what seems to me to be a rather callous and offhand remark: "they're obvious fakes". Apparently they're not fakes, and there's nothing obvious about it, and these are videos (well, I only looked at the first one) of human beings suffering. WCM would do well to consider that their edit summary likely set the tone for later comments, and to learn from this. Drmies (talk) 02:32, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see

Appealing user

89.206.112.10 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – 89.206.112.10 (talk) 09:01, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed

Extended confirmed restriction procedure interpreted in a way

that results in a complete talk page ban of all non-EC users.

Administrator imposing the sanction

Example (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a

diff

of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by 89.206.112.10

I an attempt to comply with a

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles.

In case that this ruling is meant to mean that non-EC users are banned from participating in the discussion of any decreed topic area, I propose this to be made clearly visible on the

In case that this ruling is meant to mean that non-EC users are allowd from participating in the discussion of any decreed topic area, I propose the procedure to be clarified with instructions on how to contribute constructively when the talk page is protected. 89.206.112.10 (talk) 09:01, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {{{User imposing the sanction}}}

Statement by Grandmaster

I don't think it makes much sense to allow IPs to vote in RFCs/AFDs on contentions topics. It opens doors to votestacking, canvassing, etc, as anyone can use an anonymous IP account to participate in a voting. The RFCs should be reserved for established users with a minimum of 500 edits history, which I understand was the idea behind this decision. Grandmaster 15:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by 89.206.112.10

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Selfstudier

@El C: Before it was clear that non ECs could not participate in any formal discussion, including AfDs, etcetera. Now it is a little less clear and relies on editorial judgement/admin action to enforce that while there is an implication that there may be some room for such participation, although I have a hard time seeing what that might usefully be. Whether that was intentional, I couldn't say, at one or two such non talk page discussions an admin has arrived and EC protected the page. Selfstudier (talk) 10:12, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@L235: A bit of a tweak might be just the thing, make that the focus, rather than the talk page only.Selfstudier (talk) 16:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Zero0000

I think that the ARBCOM motion was highly unsatisfactory and a case at ARCA is needed. As well as re-opening the door to anon/new editor disruption at AfDs and noticeboards, the part about article talk pages is poorly written and unworkable. The OP correctly noted an ambiguity, and also the definition of what is allowed is unclear. The link to WP:Edit requests suggests that only template-driven "change X to Y" requests are allowed, but good-faith new editors should be allowed to note a problem and leave it to experienced editors to decide how to fix it. If the strict definition of WP:Edit requests is not intended, then pretty much anything related to article content can be called an edit request. Zero^talk 11:34, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If I understand this request, it is about participation in an RfC on an article talk page in ARBPIA. That was forbidden to IPs both before and after the recent rule changes so the appeal should be denied. Zero^talk 12:34, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (uninvolved editor)

Result of the appeal by 89.206.112.10

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I think it's fairly clear what was meant (the first of your two possibilities), but ultimately if you want to ask the Committee to clarify something, the place for that is
  WP:ARCA, not here. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:47, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Yeah, the restriction is indeed intended to ban almost all non-EC participation in those topic areas. Galobtter (talk) 00:49, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• I'm looking through the latest motion, but I'm confused. Are non-EC users allowed to participate in talk pages of topic area process venues, or not? Surely, they cannot make edit requests to WT:AfD entries, etc., but that is not made expressly clear in the motion, as it did prior.
  WP:ARCA (i.e. AE admins can't speak for the Committee). El_C 03:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Thanks Selfstudier, I knew it didn't make sense. El_C 12:37, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

ECR says that all edits and pages related to the topic area are prohibited. The sole substantive exception is making edit requests on talk pages. @Zero0000: I'm open to copyediting it to make it more clear; please feel free to let me know on my talk page if you have suggestions. In any event, I would decline 89.206.112.10's appeal. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 15:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]