Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive38

See, e.g., these 11 edits of his: Cartagena, Colombia, Faith Lutheran College, Redlands, P-38 Lightning, Wynn Harmon, Enoch Powell, Bottom (TV series), Johnny Cymbal, George E. Staples, Cray, Liz Callaway, and Buick Skylark. He was previously blocked for 24 hours on March 6, 2009, for violating the injunction. Tennis expert (talk) 10:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC) Colonies Chris has been notified about this post. Tennis expert (talk) 10:41, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You were told numerous times that the injunction does not forbid occasional delinking in the course of normal editing. The links above contain multiple manual wiki-gnomish changes and corrections and are thus legitimate. You know that. This is a frivolous complaint. Cut it out, now, or you will be blocked. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Even under your interpretation of the injunction, Colonies Chris's edits of the Cray article linked above were not "occasional delinking in the course of normal editing" because 4 of his 10 edits involved date delinking. Nor was his edit of Association of Polish Artists and Designers, the sole purpose of which was to delink years. By the way, why are you so hostile and eager to assume bad faith? I honestly don't understand it. Tennis expert (talk) 12:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am hostile to the continued bickering. Simple as that. The permanent stream of complaints and counter-complaints harms the project far, far more than any actual edits could. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:43, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The injunction stipulates that editors should refrain from engaging "in any program of mass linking or delinking of dates", as opposed to occasional delinking in the course of normal editing, so I don't consider that any action is necessary. PhilKnight (talk) 13:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's your opinion, FPS, as expressed earlier this month when you insisted on the immediate cessation of blocking editors for violating the injunction and claimed that the whole discussion was ridiculous. But others believe that repeatedly violating the injunction is inherently far more harmful to Wikipedia and the arbitration process than any kind of "bickering" on the arbitration enforcement discussion page ever could be. The disagreements continue because: (1) the arbitration injunction is considered to be ambiguous by many; (2) the many discussions about the injunction since it was issued are hopelessly conflicting; (3) the arbitration committee itself has chosen not to clarify its own injunction, despite repeated requests to do so; and (4) administrators can't seem to agree among themselves about what the injunction means. So, when all the circumstances are considered, the one certainty is the fact that editors, including Colonies Chris, have been blocked for virtually the same kinds of edits that Colonies Chris has made since his last block. If administrators do not want to sanction Colonies Chris for his latest edits, then the community needs to know it so that date linking and delinking can continue (or resume) without hostility, threats, attempted mind reading, or assumptions of bad faith from administrators. That's only fair (or in the interests of natural justice or due process or whatever one wants to call it). Tennis expert (talk) 13:49, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• All the more reason to draw a line in the sand, and close off this complaint. Only then will these – I've lost count now – vexatious pieces of
  Wikilaywering stop. As pointed out by Colonies Chris below, there is a potentially much more serious complaint worthy of investigation. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:49, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Please note that my second edit to

sockpuppetry. Colonies Chris (talk) 14:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Firstly, I must express my strong objection to the

WP:NC is ambiguous and therefore unsatisfactory. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 09:29, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

I do not agree with Kekrops' proposal, not because I do not understand his reasoning but because I see no consensus in order to move to the direction he desires. I have serious concerns however about ChrisO's actions. Let me elaborate a bit:

• ChrisO believes that "Greek nationalists object to the naming of the state and insist on calling it FYROM". It is not the first time that ChrisO labels the 99% of my people (this is the percentage of Greeks who believe that this state should not be called RoM) as nationalists (for corroboration see here how emphatically he insists on this arbitrary characterization, and generalization, as well as my reaction). The promotion of such stereotypes, these arbitrary generalizations and the way he attacks Greek users like Kekrops who do not agree with him (it is characteristic that some months ago I was also attacked by him and arbitrarily threatened with a topic-ban [!!!] on an issue it was proved that I was right) make me doubt about his NPOV concerning RoM-related topics. To me ChrisO looks more like an involved user, and less like an impartial administrator.
• Despite the fact that ChrisO has lost the trust of the Greek users, he decided to rush, and close himself the move proposal by Kekrops. By acting like that, he caused the immediate reaction by various users, who critisized his decision. It was only after this wave of criticism that Kekrops re-opened the move proposal. If ChrisO had let a more impartial, more trustworthy and calm adminstrator to handle the situation, we would have probably avoided all this "drama".

I don't deny the fact that Kekrops has committed mistakes in the past, but I just say that, in this particular case, we should take into consideration all these details, includind ChrisO's unwise handling of the situation.--Yannismarou (talk) 09:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Just to note that ChrisO has been notified at least twice([4] and [5]) for not exercising his administrative powers on the issue since he is evidently heavily involved. He chose to disregard the notifications completely and to proceed in reapplying the same administrative actions to the second case, although he became even more involved in the issue. NikoSilver 10:45, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• There has been no use of admin powers. The purpose of this arbitration enforcement request is to request that some other uninvolved administrator use his or her admin rights to correct Kekrops' behaviour. -- ChrisO (talk) 18:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's udoubtable that the request has been made to prove a point about policy (proof). However, I would please ask admins to let the renaming request run its natural course as any other uncontroversial request, and to close it normally. --Enric Naval (talk) 10:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What sparked it is irrelevant to its merit or to whether it abides policy. A wp:point applies only when the action is against policy, which is definitely not the case. NikoSilver 10:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think that an outcome of this discussion should be that ChrisO is expected not to exercise his adm powers in RoM-related topics, unless such an intervention is regarded as completely uncontroversial and consensual.--Yannismarou (talk) 11:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gràcies, Enric. That's all I ask, for my proposal to receive a fair hearing on its merits, as opposed to the usual allegations of "nationalism" which are invariably invoked to stifle debate. I have pointed out a discrepancy in the practical application of Wikipedia policy, and I believe I have the right to request that it be reviewed. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 11:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is pathetic. ChrisO, as a heavily involved administrator, blatantly abuses his admin powers and closes a legitimate move request by Kekrops. His abuse is condemned by a lot of editors and his instinctive and childish response is to file an Arbitration Enforcement request against Kekrops. I'm appalled. As a side note, referring to the move request itself, the Former Yugoslav Republic in Macedonia, as ugly as it might be, is and always has been the ONLY name that has been accepted by both parties of the Macedonia naming dispute as a name for this country, currently used officially by the UN, EU and myriads other organisations. The absurdity of ChrisO's arguments is evident since he categorises these organisations as "Greek nationalists".--Avg (talk) 19:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true. There has been no use, let alone abuse, of admin powers here. -- ChrisO (talk) 20:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true. Let's concentrate on that then. Why do you continuously claim in you intro paragraphs to third parties that supporting the "former Yugoslav..." naming is nationalistic? You're basing your whole case in false arguments. In fact this has been one of the main issues I have with both you and Future Perfect all along. When a third party is misinformed by you that "former Yugoslav..." is something totally arbitrary and unofficial that Greek nationalists have come up with, then of course he will bias himself against Greeks. But of course this has never been the case, it's an official appelation used by UN and EU and RoM itself and you very well know that Greek nationalists fervently oppose this name because it contains the term "Macedonia" in it. You're painting a completely different picture from reality, giving Greek editors a bad name, insulting us all and causing damage to Wikipedia by misinforming its readers and distancing good editors from the project.--Avg (talk) 22:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Request endorsed. If

ARBMAC is an utter failure, and this is a fact proved each day on the ground. More of what you call "enforcement" would entail more havoc. Note what I say now, and we will be here let's say one year from now to see if I am wrong or right. All these stupid topic-bans were enforced one after the other, with what result? Zero! Another one, not because of edit-warring, not because of vandalism, not because of PA or incivility, but because Kekrops went through the official channels and submitted a move proposal, will be at least unhelpful. The proposal will be discussed, probably declined and this will be the end of the story. How would a vindictive topic-ban offer us anything more? Husond, you feel badly for being accused of censorship etc., and I totally understand that. But I also feel badly when the user who initiated this thread consistently accuses me of nationalism, threatening me on the past with a topic-ban using as a bugbear ARBMAC! As you can understand, I cannot endorse the request, and I regard the possible forming of a consensual majority adopting it as a huge mistake.--Yannismarou (talk) 20:11, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's a good reason why

Republic of Macedonia and every conceivable redirect has had to be indefinitely move-protected, and it's not because of the actions of Macedonian editors. Let's face it - the only people who are campaigning here to change the name are a small group of Greek editors. Kekrops, who kicked this off, has a track record of disruption and blocks due to his actions on the naming issue. Everybody knows this is about nationalist POV-pushing, so let's stop pretending, shall we? -- ChrisO (talk) 20:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

That's true. This is not about a racial vendetta against Greeks, just a simple conclusion of a fact easily observed- Greek editors take this naming issue of the Republic of Macedonia very personally, and will do whatever they can to disrupt and complicate any discussions. Nobody's on a witch hunt, we simply need to create an environment where discussions can occur peacefully. If that means topic-banning a few users, so be it. But the bashing against users who dare touching this sensitive matter simply cannot continue indefinitely. And like Yannismarou said, the move proposal will be declined. So why starting it in the first place? How can it not be disruptive and vindictive? Fact finding... Húsönd 20:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why starting it in the first place? In the vain hope that policy might one day be applied fully and rigorously to Macedonia-related articles, if you must know. Evidently, that will never happen so long as changes are summarily dismissed solely for being proposed by a Greek or perceived to be favourable to the Greek side in any way. And the only "bashing" going on is that levelled against those who disagree with your position, as demonstrated by this very section and by your repeated personal and ethnic attacks. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 21:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Let's stop pretending that this is about anything other than your personal disdain for Greek editors, shall we? The fact that you refuse to regard us as individuals is telling. But let's set aside your colourful rhetoric for the moment. Firstly, I am a Macedonian editor. Secondly, are you really accusing me of engaging or intending to engage in unilateral page moves? If you are, I challenge you to produce a single shred of evidence to support such a preposterous claim. Thirdly, I have only one Macedonia-related block, and that was largely the result of your entirely arbitrary behaviour regarding templates over at

WP:MOSMAC. I have certainly never been blocked for disrupting any Macedonia-related article. If you are going to level such serious allegations against a fellow editor, at least have the decency to be accurate. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 21:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

ChrisO, it's not a coincidence that every single Greek editor including the most moderate ones feels terribly offended and mistreated by your abuse of administrative powers. I urge you, once more, to stop being an involved party and an involved administrator at the same time. Your repeated attacks at both an ethnic and an individual level to every single Greek editor are telling. NikoSilver 21:19, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your problem is, whenever an uninvolved admin dwells into the matter, he/she gets promptly accused of bias against Greeks, racism, double standards, censorship, etc, and then finally, becomes "involved". Húsönd 21:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ChrisO and who else? NikoSilver 21:29, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. Where are the uninvolved administrators? It's always been the same small group of faces, for years now. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 21:34, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Let me put this very simply for you, Niko, since you appear to have difficulty understanding what's been written above. No admin powers have been used. You have no excuse for repeating this falsehood when it's already been addressed. Now I suggest that you move on and find something more productive to do. -- ChrisO (talk) 21:36, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You closed the first move proposal, which is an administrative action.[6] You did this after you had voted in it. And it is you who moved the page originally to the present title 6 years ago, so you are the most involved editor. And you're threatening everybody with the arbmac bogyman on top. Then you claim you didn't exercise any admin powers and you repeatedly accuse all Greeks of nationalism and crackpot-ism (according toy your POV, of course), plus you are assuming bad faith while accusing policy abiding actions as "pointy". NikoSilver 21:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's clear, Chris, that the closing of the first move proposal is an adm action. No reason to deny what is obvious. Live with it and go on. We all make mistakes, me more than once; the important thing is not to repeat them. Now, as far as I am concerned, I have nothing more to add to this "making circles" page. All the arguments are presented, and I think that we now get tiring for those reading. Therefore, I am out from here and going straight to FAC to do what this project is supposed to be about: create great articles! Do you remember that! So, come and kick my ass there! It's more creative.--Yannismarou (talk) 22:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some relevant links

• Ayn Rand (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• TallNapoleon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• LoveMonkey (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Peter Damian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Snowded (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Brushcherry (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Snowded (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The editing environment at Ayn Rand has begun to rapidly degenerate yet again. Personal attacks, insults and accusations of bad faith are flying, and large series of edits are being made to the article without consultation on the talk page. I would like to urgently request administrator intervention to help enforce the recent ArbCom ruling. TallNapoleon (talk) 08:06, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide diffs of any misconduct as well as links to the relevant page(s).  Sandstein  10:32, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to note here that a set of editors on the article appear to be engaging in editwarring technics of frustration and personal attack. They are also attacking peer reviewed sources because those sources specialize in the subject and are therefore by these editors standards are "biased". I joined the article on March 19 alittle over 10 days ago and have been in protracted and unproductive arguments and been called insane on Jimbo's personal talkpage by one of the warring editors. LoveMonkey (talk) 12:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's User:Peter Damian Insults and threats and general disruptive behavior.

• 1.Here Peter Damian goes to JIMBO's talkpage and claims that I am insane.[72][73]

• 2[74]

• 3.Here Peter Damian clears up who the message on JIMBO's talkpage was for with a clear and disrespectful attitude..[75]

• 4."As academic philosophers take little interest in our topic, it follows that, in general, they are not a good source for it. " This is easily one of the stupidest things you have said. Which is something in itself." [76] This one after Peter Damian accused an editor of being a WP:Dick.

• 5."As I said, I refuse to contribute to this train wreck, I am just going to hack it to pieces from the sidelines until someone decides to write something clear, sensible and well-sourced."[77] This comment (not directed at me) is what prompts me to state that this editor and his cohorts are not at all about improving the article. This clearly states their editing agenda and their behavior validates the comment.

Examples of his refusial to remove the insults and threats of reporting to Arbcomm. He refused the request to remove the comments from administrator User:DGG.

• 1.[78]
• 2.[79]
• 3.[80]

Here's User:Snowded disruptive, disrespectful, hyer critical and obstructionistic tactics.

Using Wikipedia Policy to frustrate and edit war. In general argumentive and unapologetic about behavior even after being banned.

• 1.Scared aware and love it![81]
• 2.Accusing me of violating WP:3RR and letting me know that he will make sure to not be so lax in the future.[82]
• 3

LoveMonkey (talk) 13:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please format your comment coherently (signature at the end only, all lines at the same level of indentation) and notify Peter Damian of this thread.  Sandstein  13:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have notified both Peter Damian[83] and Snowded [84] and their respective talkpages. LoveMonkey (talk) 13:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you have more success that the rest of us in getting LoveMonkey to use indents properly Sandstein. As for the rest we have an editor who edit warred against consensus on Existentialism here, here, here and here advocating a particular unsupported and insupportable position failing to address any of the arguments and attempts to help advanced on the talk page as can be seen here. S/he has now arrived at the Ayn Rand page with similar propositions. The recent unsupported insertion of material on the Prisoner here where his position again fails to address any of the reasoned arguments but simply rambles around a partially understood subject. Most editors have tried their best to be polite, but I can understand Peter's response. Politely pointing out that no evidence has been presented that in any way says the Prisoner writers or cast were influenced by Rand, produced an attack on editors here with no attempt to address the content. There are several other examples. He has now issued a general and unsupported accusation above " disruptive, disrespectful, hyer critical and obstructionistic". In respect of his/her specific references, on point 1 I made the point that scaring away people who rejected consensus was not something I would feel guilty about, and in respect of the second I made no threats, but simply pointed out that had other editors not attempted to comply with

WP:BITE

he would have been reported for 3RR on Existentialism.

In addition we have BushCherry who was sanctioned to diversify his/her interests and engage on the talk page with the subject not the editors. In practice all bar one edit (check his contributions page) have been on the Ayn Rand talk page, and they are all commentaries on the editors not the content. --Snowded (talk) 14:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is Arbitration enforcement. Please don't come here unless you have a particular arbitration remedy to enforce. This has not been listed, so I don't see much to do here. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rather amusing that Brandspoyt below selectively chose who was at fault in the edit wars. For all that, let's not forget that Elsanaturk (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is essentially a revert warrior who pops in and out of articles, without really adding any material. As a party to AA as well as AA2 and despite numerous warnings, he reverted no less than three times on the same article below [87], [88], [89], without contributing anything to the article's talk page. According to decisions made in AA2, "any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process." A similar pattern of war-reverts seems to exist among other articles as well.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:25, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Could you provide us with diffs for the "numerous warnings", as well as for any recent disruptive conduct, other than that edit war, that would warrant AA2 sanctions? Also, please notify Elsanaturk of this thread.  Sandstein  19:37, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ignoring Meowy's pleas, the "numerous" warnings refer to his knowledge of the 3RR rule and the guidelines in place of AA see here. Blind reverts have taken place here and here as well recently (the latter edit doesn't even distinguish that the fact that seven cited sources support the exact opposite of his reverts).--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:10, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not actionable. You provide no diffs of warnings given to Elsanaturk, only one revert by him and one other edit (which is not in fact a revert) that it seems you object to because you disagree with it. In other words, you provide no evidence of continued disruption that would warrant a sanction. Please do not misuse this noticeboard for frivolous requests, or you may yourself be made subject to sanctions.  Sandstein  21:32, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On Oct 18, 2007 Meowy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was placed termlessly under AA2 restrictions and is listed among people placed under the editing restrictions. He was limited to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism, but recently made three reverts in two days at the same page: [90], [91], [92]. Despite Meowy's appeals for sticking to talk it was him who resorted to edit-warring. Previously he removed other user’s comment at AfD discussion, allegedly because he did not like it. According to AA2 decision, any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. brandспойт 13:59, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Y Blocked for 48 hours for the revert restriction violation.  Sandstein  14:10, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

These are obviously not through a bot or script as there are other changes beyond one or two dates being delinked from each, and doesn't seem to be a program of "mass delinking" as cautioned against in the restriction. I see nothing wrong with his actions here compared to his earlier actions that were clearly against this. --MASEM (t) 14:08, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to be normal page cleanup, with minor de-linking. The injunction states,

"Until this case is decided or otherwise directed by the Arbitration Committee, all editors are instructed not to engage in any program of mass linking or delinking of dates in existing articles, including but not limited to through the use of bots, scripts, tools, or otherwise."

This is a trivial matter. As a courtesy, I've notified Ohconfucius of the post. seicer | talk | contribs 14:13, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I felt it best to mention this earlier rather than later, given this user's history of violating this injunction. —

(❝?!❞) 14:18, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

• I am so touched by your consideration, Hex. I would suggest my talk page being the most direct way of attracting my attention. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:25, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Depends what you mean if you think its trivial. As far as I can see he runs the script at User:Ohconfucius/monobook.js on each article he edits. This removes all date links, amongst other things. For me its right on the edge because its clearly script-based editing, but he's not doing it to many articles. On the other hand the intention is clearly to flout the injunction, since he is not doing the edits manually. If he spent more time editing articles it would clearly be a problem. As it is, I don't know. I admit that I find his manner abrasive, and I think he is probably getting pleasure out of deliberately skirting the edges of the injunction, so count me as ticked-off by an editor who is uncooperative. You can decide for yourselves whether that's a problem. AKAF (talk) 14:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I understand, and I have blocked him in the past (see [97]), but this is nothing in comparison to what has been done in the past. seicer | talk | contribs 14:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• The injunction says: "including but not limited to through the use of bots, scripts, tools, or otherwise". Use of the script is not the problem, as all means of mass-delinking are at issue here. Removing a small number of date instances from four articles is not "mass delinking", thank you very much. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:17, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• I think we should block the account until such time as all date linking or delinking scripts are disabled. Jehochman ^Talk 16:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• I totally rewrote three of those articles, spending a good half hour on each, and I probably delinked a couple of date links in each article while I was at it. However, I would pologise if my actions come arcoss as provocative. I undertake not to edit any more articles outside my current watchlist, so as to avoid any further accusations of deliberately delinking dates until the injunction is lifted. Ohconfucius (talk) 17:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jehochman, my clear recollection is that you are

I remind you that User:Kendrick7 was discovered to be fly-by relinking dates to many, many articles, over a period of more than two weeks—yet he somehow escaped blocking for the blatant breach of the injunction. I'm not saying that the injunction should not be enforced; however, Ohconfucius's article improvements at issue here seem relatively trivial. Tony (talk) 17:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Although Jehochman has made comments in the past regarding the case, that does not make him involved, per se. Given that he hasn't blocked Ohconfucius, to tell him to hold off on commentary is not a wise move. seicer | talk | contribs 17:39, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of blocking Ohconfucius until he complies, I think it would be preferable to remove the script from the monobook, and protect the page. PhilKnight (talk) 13:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd support that. Or just remove it, and treat the reinsertion as a deliberate attempt to defy the injunction.DGG (talk) 15:01, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The script can be used for other purposes besides delinking dates. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:41, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If on the User:Ohconfucius/monobook.js page, the section immediately below '//month+day piped' and '//4 digit years piped' were blanked, would that allow the other functions to work normally? PhilKnight (talk) 23:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• You will see from the edits is that there that I have been trying to customise it. I'm hoping it will do strictly inter-conversion of date formats. So far, my comprehension of js is still limited, but I am still trying. AFAICT, the sections you mentioned relate only to removing links for piped date links such as [[March 31|31]] and [[2008 in foo|2008]]. I have no interest in disturbing those links. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited your monobook page, and disabled all the date delinking functions. PhilKnight (talk) 13:46, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That seems like a good solution. There's no excuse for anybody to be running automated linking or delinking scripts. Jehochman ^Talk 21:04, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Meowy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was placed on AA2 editing restrictions on October 18, 2007, limiting him to a 1 revert per week. After a fresh report just few days ago (still be seen just below) [98], Meowy again violated this restriction by trying to reinsert a disputed map by a blogger on Azerbaijan Democratic Republic page:

• 1st Revert - 01:40, 4 April 2009
• 2nd Revert - 19:55, 4 April 2009

Besides the violation of 1RR, his reverts are contrary to discussion going on the talk page, with understanding that no disputed POV maps should appear on the page until there is consensus achieved. Atabəy (talk) 07:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: It is not "a disputed map by a blogger", but a map from Wikicommons authorized by Andrew Andersen and George Partskhaladze. Both are reliable experts on topic see for example the reviews [99][100]. It looks it is not a discussion over a known publication "Atlas of Conflicts" and a map from there, but simple removal of reliable material that Meowy just returned back. Andranikpasha (talk) 12:30, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am familiar with Meowy's restriction, being the admin who blocked him for his latest violation of it. The edit he reverted is not except from the restriction as "obvious vandalism", since the reliability of the map he reinserted appears to be in dispute (although I am not expressing an opinion as to whether it is reliable or not). For his repeated violation of AA2 restrictions, I am blocking him for a week.  Sandstein  13:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Raquel Baranow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• WP:ARB9/11

See this diff. The editor was previously warned and has received extensive counseling here. They refuse to understand that Wikipedia is not for publishing original research and promoting conspiracy theories. Jehochman ^Talk 21:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Any objections to a 1-year ban? PhilKnight (talk) 23:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, well, this is obviously fringe theory soapboxing, but do you think a topic ban is warranted unless she edits the actual articles in the same vein?  Sandstein  13:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd give her credit for using the talk page instead of editing the article. Claiming that she is using Wikipedia for promoting conspiracy theories is avoiding the fact that two of the five points in that diff are valid and could/should be addressed. If they actually have valid points these editors should be dealt with civily instead of requesting a ban just because they believe in conspiracies. Wayne (talk) 17:18, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"I DIDNT HEAR THAT" on talk pages can be just as disruptive, i.e. wasteful of editors's time, as edits to articles. This editor should perhaps receive one more very explicit warning, but then imho a ban would be appropriate. Looie496 (talk) 18:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Turning a talk page into a conspiracy theory chatroom is very disruptive. It wastes time of other contributors and disrupts the formation of consensus. Warnings and extensive counseling have been given. Unless the user provides a reason why things might be different, a ban is needed. I'll ask her to comment here.Jehochman ^Talk 19:00, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Homeopathy, Dana was full banned 1 year for disruptive POV pushing in the talk pages, idem in Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Fringe science topic bannig Pcarbonn. --Enric Naval (talk) 02:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article is biased and doesn't represent facts because U say the facts come from unreliable sorces. AE911Truth.org (Archetects & Engineers for 911 Truth) is not mentioned at all. We have a profesor at our university who is an archetect of heavy construction (bridges and more), who holds meetings a few times a year to discuss how the structure of the Twin Towers and WTC7 could never have fallen like that. If more archetects saw these videos (IMO, "Zeitgist" is propaganda) and read David Ray Griffin's books, they would join too. Popular Mechanics & Skeptic magazine aren't really reliable peer-reviewed journals (I've subscribed to Skeptic since the beginning and met/spoke to Michael Shermer several times, telling him he's not skeptical enough, etc. . . I inspired him to do the Holocaust issue but he ignored the forensics and logistics of the alleged murder weapon.) Griffin did a through debunking of the Popular Mechanics article/book. Popular Mechanics is like the Reader's Digest for mechanics. Do U consider Reader's Digest a reliable source or a place to pitch propaganda to the masses? I have nothing more to say on the article unless I find some more bias in it. I'd like to change the header to the topic I started to add, "Biased article" to see if other's agree. The article reads like a handout from the CIA or something that would appear in Reader's Digest. U wanna ban me 'cause U don't wanna have to deal with the elephant in the room, which is the pulverized dust several inches deep throughout Manhattan, the tiny debris pile, big, heavy beams hurled 600 yards, destruction of evidence at the crime scene, reliable witnesses/victims of explosions and molten metal in the basement. Could also be that if an Archetect/Engineer comes out agains't the Government's conspiracy theory, they would not get a government job. Like I said, I have nothing more to say there. If I do start another topic it will be after I look through the archives to see how many other people think the article is biased. I do promise to be very careful if I do post anything more there. I also want to watch the page to see how U handle other dissentors of the Official Conspiracy Theory. If Ur just gonna delete what they write on talk-pages like U did to me. It's only a matter of time before some prominant, retired archetect or a better, more informed dissentor comes along to challenge this article. There's no doubt in my mind

I rest my case. Jehochman ^Talk 21:02, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If she doesn't give us clear evidence that her behaviour will change, I'll support the ban.

talk) 21:10, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Note she is still adding her website to articles [101].

talk) 21:13, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Those edits to "Mammon" have been removed and I'm discussing it on the talk page. I made a mistake, the pic-link is not necessary. It's like a catch 22: U can't discuss improving an article about conspiracy theory at WTC without details about what the actual conspiracy theory is because none of the conspiracy theories (except the Government's) come from reliable sources? David Ray Griffin is reliable. Everything he writes is sourced. U guys have knee-jerk reactions to "conspiracy theory"? Are U not open-minded that U could be wrong? I'll change, I'm learning, some editors are more tolorant that U guys. I made some legitimate points in the talk-page at controlled demolition. The article is biased it doesn't tell the whole theory plus there are lotsa weasel words like saying "all mainstream engineers" agree with the government. I'm sure U've made mistakes here too when U first started out. I only recently got interested in editing Wikipedia . . . just so happens most of my interests are controversial, radical, revolutionary, anti-status quo. Some people, including my two brother-in-laws are really smart (and so am I) but when I mention a conspiracy theory, they immediately scoff. As if governments don't lie!? I won't refer to my website in any articles I edit. I did so here cause it is easier than citing the two videos directly. I know the URL to my website without looking whereas if I cited the two videos directly I'd hafta click through a bunch of stuff, open a bunch of windows, copy and paste. I promise to be very careful discussing conspiracy theory on controled demolition. Raquel Baranow (talk) 23:41, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was involved in the original AN/I report on this editor, and

WP:SOAP, verifiability (including Wikipedia:Verifiability,_not_truth and so on. Following some comments about "being a new editor" and "learning", with other comments verging on the uncivil about "faceless and nameless editors" censoring "the truth" on Wikipedia Raquel withdrew for a short period, citing ill-health and commenting "let's resolve this". She returned very shortly afterwards and commenced the same POV-pushing on talkpages rather than on articles. She seems unable or unwilling to accept WP policies either primarily in terms of verifiability and reliability of sources or secondarily in terms of collegial editing. She appears unable to accept that WP is not there as a platform for her to air her views irrespective of policy. I support a topic ban as proposed. Tonywalton ^Talk 23:45, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

I'm done commenting on the controlled demolition page. I learned my lesson interfering there but it is a biased article. Tony we just have a different idea of what the page should be about. I thought readers could try to improve articles. That's what I sincerely wanted to do but can't 'cause U say David Ray Griffen, AE911Truth.org, 911Reports.com, or this video about explosives (with plenty of credible references) are not reliable sources or worth mention. The video has had over 10,000,000 viewes on YouTube. It's a question of who is telling the truth. We know governments lie, especially U$A, we've assassinated heads of state all over the world, including a coup d'etat in Dallas, 11/22/63. I'll look through all the archives for a thread about bias in the article. If I find anything significant showing readers think the article is bias, then maybe I'll raise the issue for a consenses, major re-write? If U'r going to say, "That won't happen," (even if consensus says the article is biased), please explain why? Raquel Baranow (talk) 02:22, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Forget topic ban, propose complete ban. It takes absolutely no virtue of the imagination to work out once 9/11 related articles are off limits to Raquel, she will put her attention elsewhere - most probably on Holocaust and Holocaust denial related discussions, and with regards to this page, it cannot be argued that such anticipation is without basis. WilliamH (talk) 02:08, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Unless and until Raquel accepts that

gaming the system. Tonywalton ^Talk 10:21, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Oppose the article isn't neutral, it's biased, the editors there are intolorant, they accept NO dissent or contrary views and they're ganging up on me. I'll impose a ban on myself. I'll cool-it. I learned my lesson! I really, honestly thought I was offering evidence to improve the article or at least show what the conspiracy theorists believe. What I wrote on the talk-page should NOT be erased as my previous comments there were (maybe I wrote it badly but I re-wrote it). Peace & Love guys but more and more mainstream people are comming out against the government's conspiracy theory. 9/11 is the JFK conspiracy of our day. In this past month or two that I began monitoring articles here I've really learned a lot and made some nice friends. We just have a disagreement on what "Reliable Sources" are. I don't believe many of the sources in the Controled Demolition article are reliable. They rely on ONE person as an expert and ignore others, they consider "Popular Mechanics" & "Skeptic" Magazine as, "mainstream, peer-reviewed" journals. I subscribed to Skeptic since the beginning, met Michael Shermer twice, had letters published there and inspired Shermer to write the Holocaust issue (but he didn't evaluate the hard, forensic evidence). I learned my lesson, no ban is necessary, I'll impose it myself!!!! Peace & Love! :) Raquel Baranow (talk) 13:22, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• User said, Moslems are demographically taking over the Middle East and are infiltrating Europe. [102] I think we have, despite possibly good intentions, a user who's goals conflict too much with Wikipedia. Jehochman ^Talk 13:28, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have many good friends in Europe who are saying that (on my flickr site) and I tell them their attitude is the same as Hitler's toward Jews. Bill Clinton recently said that demographics is Israel's #1 problem. I'm just repeating facts. People in Europe are opposed to this infiltration as people in the U$A are opposed to infiltration by illegal immigrants. Ur making me look like a bigot! I'm the most open-minded tolorant person U can imagine . . . I have dated people of all nationalities, religions. Raquel Baranow (talk) 13:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Support a topic ban, and possibly something more if the problematic behaviour doesn't stop. This is clear soapboxing and the user doesn't seem interested in abiding by policy. Hut 8.5 13:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indefinitely blocked

Okay, the comments by

• Endorse this block. However, if another administrator unblocks her, I propose that the subject ban is extended to Holocaust and Holocaust denial related articles. Enough time has already been spent patiently articulating to Raquel why her propositions are inappropriate, and I don't see why any more volunteer time should be wasted. WilliamH (talk) 15:31, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Definitely no objection to keeping her blocked until a topic ban is formulated. It doesn't look likely that this editor will ever do much that isn't counter-productive if allowed to edit these articles freely. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 15:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• No problem with the block, especially as the editor posted a (declined) unblock request that essentially repeats various 9/11 allegations and accuses other editors of covering things up.--Hut 8.5 17:21, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Entirely reasonable block. MastCell ^Talk 18:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• The Original Wildbear (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The user's page states, Promoting accuracy in information. They have been disrupting

Each single-purpose account that shows up beating the drum for the conspiracy theories should be warned once, and then banned from the 9/11 pages. There's no reason to keep going through this again and again. Tom Harrison ^Talk 01:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See for example User:DawnisuponUS. Tom Harrison ^Talk 02:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Who apparently had experience of editing Wikipedia before that account was created.

talk) 18:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Yeah, some of the accounts appearing at this venue appear to be similar in personality to prior accounts that were banned. Jehochman ^Talk 19:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Could you or another administrator please give the user an official warning. That way they cannot claim lack of warning next time. There is in fact a warning about

9/11 on their talk page at this very moment,[112] but it does not specificly mention the arbitration case. Jehochman ^Talk 18:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Done,[113][114] Tom Harrison ^Talk 12:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is there proof that The Original Wildbear is User:DawnisuponUS? A cursory inspection indicates although there is a small overlap they edit at different times of day. Is "similar in personality" to a banned user a criteria for banning another user? Is it good faith to request a user be warned without any proof he has done anything to warrant a warning "just in case"? As you say "some of the accounts appearing at this venue" in the plural I assume you mean me as I'm the only one outside of your own supporters posting. Justify or retract the accusation. Wayne (talk) 07:57, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No accusation was made. Stop disrupting this board with battleground tactics, please. Jehochman ^Talk 15:30, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The user is still pushing Truther propaganda. [115] Could we get a topic ban please? Jehochman ^Talk 21:36, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at his contributions they're nearly all focused on 9/11, so I think a block, possibly of a month, could be more appropriate. PhilKnight (talk) 23:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User:Drsmoo was blocked March 24th for 3RR and accusations of antisemitism against other editors. Here is my report to 3RR about his behavior in the article about musician/writer Gilad Atzmon.

DrSmoo did engage in 3rr again today as of this edit to get his way with his edits.

More importantly, instead of dealing with other editor’s WP:OR, WP:RS and WP:editwarring concerns with his edits (as expressed in these sections: here, here and here), he has continued to engage in attacks. Here and here he makes all sorts of barely relevant or inaccurate charges related to the antisemitism issue, including twice from doing research on an editor’s off-wikipedia activities which is against WP:harassment. Obviously, he is producing a very difficult editing environment!

Enforcement action: Whatever seems appropriate to stop him from disrupting this article. CarolMooreDC (talk) 21:07, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As a correction, I was blocked only for 3rr and nothing else. Nor have I ever made any accusations regarding any editor. Anyone clicking Carol's links will see that any part of those edits which could be construed as a personal attack were removed by me and do not exist on the talk page. I made no personal attacks, secondly, contrary to her own statements, the article does not belong to Carol Moore, and it is not her article that has been written for a year, she was only one of many editors working on the article. This current controversy began when I included at the time recent statements by Atzmon such as "I think Jewish ideology is driving our planet into a catastrophe and we must stop." At which point there was a mad dash to get those quotes removed by any means necessary, including saying they were quotefarming etc. Other than accidentally reverting more than allowed on a single day I haven't broken any wikipedia rules whatsoever. In addition, according to the Wikipedia rules on 3rr, I was not in violation in my edits in any way today, despite being accused today of 3rr violation.Drsmoo (talk) 10:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Here is my report to 3RR which included complains about edit warring behavior; so I assume that was part of the reason for the block. Your Block reads: "Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war."
• I should have included in the first 3rr report these "attack" diffs [117], [118], [119] - all attacks because you consider any editors' attempt to present subject's views in WP:RS context or to allow the subject to defend themselves against allegations to be somehow bigoted and feel you must express that fact.
• I quoted diffs above of two attacks accusing editors of being supporters who share all Atzmon's views; the diffs reflect the earlier view and newer side of the diffs, which still represent attacks. Also searching the internet to present people's allegedly POV views (usually out of context) is not cooperative editing.
• This is not the place for debate on content issues; my complaint is about attacks instead of debate responsive to issues raised in sections mentioned above.
• As for 3RR I noticed in middle of complaint, that was an error where I had a temporary confusion and thought 3 was over the limit. My apologies on that one! not sure if I should give those diffs here or at
  WP:3rr and have a question in on that. CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:59, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply
  ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gilad_Atzmon&diff=281304172&oldid=281125856Edit warring over a section devoted to a musicians political beliefs, and particularly over the responses by other parties to the individuals stances, appears to be an argument over application of

WP:UNDUE (not that it is mentioned). As the editors are in dispute over an area that is covered by WP:ARBPIA, I think that the editors should be warned specifically that these edits are covered by those restrictions. While I believe the revert warring between Drsmoo and Malcolm Soscha (sp?) violates the spirit of WP:3RR, the larger concern is that regarding WP:UNDUE. I suggest that when that is established then we can look into the application of AE restrictions. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:03, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

WP:ARBPIA has been linked to a couple times, mostly in long name form. Plus I recently added this section warning about more possible sanctions to two editors already sanctioned that I just noticed was deleted. Actually WP:UNDUE - which seems to be a content issue - has been one of the issues, as discussed in in this archive section and elsewhere. However, you can't discuss it in a constructive manner if the editor is calling you an antisemite if you disagree with his edits. This is a repeated behavioral issue of edit warring and uncivility. CarolMoore Failed to sign 5 AprilCarolMooreDC (talk) 19:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

I'd also like to add that anyone viewing the discussion page can see that I never once called Carol Moore anything, let alone calling her an antisemite. Drsmoo (talk) 09:36, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Per the above I am referring to specific comments you have made about more than one editor as well as ones about myself. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:10, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that CarolMooreDC is accusing me of calling her an antisemite. In fact she has made a long series of this, and other accusations against me (some on this noticeboard, and more on the article talk page...as well as other noticeboards) but has never produced a single diff. I would like her to either produce some evidence of her many charges against me, or stop making them because this is disruptive. (I have said that I think Gilad Atzmon is antisemitic, and there are plenty of reliable sources in the article to support that view.) Malcolm Schosha (talk) 00:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I note that CarolMooreDC has not notified Drsmoo of the accusation against him/her on this noticeboard. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 01:03, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This clearly is not about Malcolm Schosha. I just corrected "you" to "one" and added User:Drsmoo so there is no misunderstanding. Anything about you would be addressed with relevant diffs to the administrator who sanctioned you in this arbitration enforcement last week here, as another editor already reminded you on the Atzmon article today. And I didn't see anything about notification of Drsmoo above, but have no problem with doing so. CarolMooreDC (talk) 01:10, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Carol Moore should refrain from talking bad about fellow editors on her talk page while "teaming up" with those who hold similar positions to her. Drsmoo (talk) 23:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you mean here I was looking for advice on whether to go to WP:COIN about an editor on this article and eventually I did and the editor was warned about it here. I don't like bringing complaints, but this article has been the worst I've seen and made it necessary. Seeing the Drsmoo tag team complaint below, and looking more closely at my talk page, I see some other minor grousing about other editors on the article; if that's illegal, please spell it out somewhere. It's not in the tag team Essay.CarolMooreDC (talk) 13:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was not "warned", I was "advised". A very different matter. Warning implies that I had committed an offence, and was reprimanded and told not to do so again; advice is another editor's opinion, and implies no impropriety on my part. RolandR (talk) 15:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. Having avoided these kinds of actions in the past, I do get confused about various terms and their implications. CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:37, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've notified Drsmoo of the

Resolved

 – Not an actionable enforcement request.  Sandstein  17:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Carolmooredc has been engaging in

She should be encouraged not to work behind the backs of the majority of the editors in an article, and make discussions regarding the article in the appropriate discussion page. Drsmoo (talk) 02:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

zOMG - never thought anybody would actually be using and refering to

Elonka Policy :-( Shot info (talk) 10:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

This request will be closed very soon if the information required for an enforcement request is not provided.  Sandstein  11:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Request concerning Dr. Dan

User requesting enforcement

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 22:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Dr. Dan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Arbitration case whose sanctions are to be enforced

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren or Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_European_disputes

Sanction or remedy that has been violated

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren#Discretionary sanctions and Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_European_disputes#Editors_reminded

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy

Primary. Supporting: [125], [126]

Explanation how these edits violate the sanction or remedy at issue

Those comments are more then unhelpful and violating

WP:AGF, they create a battleground atmosphere and encourage editors to flame and snipe. The remedy above specifically warns editors involved in EE topics to avoid creating battlegrounds, and Dr. Dan has been familiar to it, and was put on the warning list soon after the arbitration ([127]

).

Enforcement action requested (

other sanction

)

As specified in the cited remedy, although a topic ban from discussions of EE topics may be considered instead.

Additional comments

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a

diff of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. User_talk:Dr._Dan#Courtesy_notice

I dunno if it's just lack of self-awareness, but there's nothing in these diffs, and certainly less than Piotrus' comment yesterday "remember that no amount of logic and evidence will change the opinion of a nationalist true believer. For some, Vilnius was forever 100% pure Lithuanian Vilnius, likely created that way when the universe begun.", directed towards his opponents on

Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#Bad_faith_towards_me. Best thing to do is to direct Piotrus to make more dialogue with those who disagree with him rather than constantly trying to get them into trouble on frivolous pretexts. Dr Dan it should be said is a highly educated, and intelligent user with good historical knowledge, who constantly has to deal with tendentious multi-blocked nationalists trolling and reverting him; at worst he could maybe cut down on sarcasm sometimes, but he is not by any means half as problematic a user as, for instance, User:Radeksz whom Piotrus has gone to a lot of trouble to protect. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 22:48, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Um, Deacon care to in anyway substantiate the (libelous) claim that I am a "problematic" user? Is this just because I have disagreed with you and participated in discussion where I took a different view than you did? Is it because I've taken issue with tendentious, disruptive editing on the part of Dr. Dan (and a couple of others) who've tried to insert text based on extremist nationalist sources into Lithuania/Poland related articles? Or is it just my general existence and participation in the Wiki project which is "problematic" for you? I hate to be touchy about this but since this is part of the pattern, I'm gonna request an apology from you here.

talk) 00:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

And this isn't even addressing the second claim that somehow Piotrus "protects me" which is just ridiculous (particularly since if I'm not "problematic" I don't need protection). I'm guessing you're referring to that one instance where M.K. tried to get me unsuccessfully blocked for edit warring - in a discussion he personally was not involved at all, just you know, he made the report out of a sense of duty - which was a heated disagreement but not a violation of Wiki guidelines. In that instance Piotrus, in his capacity as an admin, issued a warning to myself and to the other editor involved, which put an end to the problem and which action was rightly considered as the correct one by other administrators (though I'm sure it left M.K. and maybe some others disappointed).

talk) 00:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Please understand it's genuinely not my wish to give you a hard time here, Radeksz, as this wouldn't be the place for it anyway. It's my wish to make the context clear to other admins reviewing Piotrus' request, and there is no chance of disciplinary action coming down against you. The evidence posted by Piotrus involves you, so unfortunately you have to be discussed.

I don't recall any active disagreement with you, and I wouldn't count us voting on different sides of a recent poll notable disagreement. It's based on your editing pattern and your disciplinary record, which can be verified by viewing your user contributions, your block log, user talk history, and by searching the archives of

WP:AN/3. In regard to this, and since you have requested, to Piotrus' protection, I will repost evidence composed by User:Sciurinæ

from a recent Arbitration clarification request, which will illustrate the situation; readers can compare Piotrus' treatment of you with Piotrus' treatment of Dr Dan:

This is Radeksz's three 3RR violations and all of Piotrus' reactions to them:

• First 3RR violation: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 (the violation wasn't reported). Piotrus couldn't contact him off-wiki to warn him and the case about his tag teaming was still on. Piotrus actually took the trouble of going to pl.wiki to ask Radeksz for his mail.[129] Piotrus also took part in the edit warring at the article before Radeksz, which resulted in page protection later after the second violation.[130]
• Second 3RR violation: Same page one day later.[131] Piotrus then secretly warned him in Polish about getting blocked for 3RR and to have a look at his message in pl.wiki.[132] This constitutes usage of another language to conceal improper conduct (see remedy). Piotrus also supported unblocking of Radeksz ([133]), and ignored his formula (it goes: when A has 4 reverts and B has 3, only A should receive a consequence. The formula was only designed after Piotrus often had 3 reverts and Boodlesthecat 4 anyway).
• Third 3RR violation: Piotrus closes the issue himself to avoid a block.[134]

--- Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 00:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. There's one (semi) legit block there (it wasn't a 3RR vio but the admin decided to crack down on the edit wars that were going on - in a very one sided way I might add), due to a report by a real "problematic" user who got himself banned for a whole year due to his propensity for edit wars and incivility. The other two are just spurious attempts by Deacon to smear me - note I already discussed the 3rd one above, reported by M.K. (and the reason 1st one wasn't reported was because these were completely diff edits as was the 3rd). And of course that record is no worse than this [135] (so does Deacon consider himself a "problematic" user as well? [136]) Now. Yeah, Piotrus asked me for my email when he noticed that there was another Polish editor editing Poland related pages. Yeah, he warned me not to violate the 3RR rule (in Polish probably in order to see if I actually spoke it). And yeah, as I already said above in one case he issued warnings. So what? This is the mentality that looks for conspiracies where none exist and which thinks that somehow if two different Polish editors have the nerve to edit the same Poland related article then they must be scheming. This has already been discussed to death in several different RfA's and other forums (quite honestly I can't find it atm), with the explicit finding that there is no cabal or conspiracy here, that these chargers are frivolous and that ordinary communication between two editors who happen to be of the same nationality should not be automatically viewed with suspicion, as Deacon is trying to do here. Further. It takes a certain amount of chutzpah to call me "problematic" - even though Dr. Dan's the one that has an official restriction on him for his previous actions, and Deacon has been officially "admonished" to avoid edit warring (not to mention the "it's not my intent to give you a hard time" - just call you "problematic"). Still want that apology Deacon.

talk) 01:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

In regard to that 3rd supposed 3RR violation, here is an uninvolved editor noting that it wasn't a 3RR violation [137], and here is another uninvolved editor stating that Piotrus' action in this case were appropriate and telling Deacon to quit wasting everyone's time with frivolous complaints (as he is doing here) [138], and yet another admonishment for Deacon not to waste people's time by an uninvolved editor [139], and again (after Deacon tried to drag it out) [140], but Deacon and MK insisted on going so they got another one [141], and then this one as a combination of another acknowledgment of the appropriateness of Piotrus' action and criticisms of Deacon's [142]. Ok, enough. The point is that this particular matter was opened and closed and there's no point in bringing it up again and this is just Deacon's attempts to re-fight old battles.

talk) 01:49, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

(Wow, I felt a little bit of pride reading the thread and out of the blue seeing my summary for a request for clarification cited. But here comes the denial already. For what little it's worth, since it's off-topic, I understand that the third 3RR vio was complicated to understand. The second and first, by contrast, couldn't be any more obvious: in the second one you've restored the exact same parenthesis with OR four times in a row about, yet you still deny it was a 3RR vio. In the first 3RR vio, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, you've re-added exactly the same comment of yours about Pawlikowski into the article four times as well, yet you claim the diffs are completely different. I'm not sure why you don't want to accept it because there's no consequences possible for the vios after so much time has passed but for those who actually check the claims for correctness, this will only leave you looking as unreliable.) Sciurinæ (talk) 17:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Let's not forget that the evidence against Radeksz (completely irrelevant to Dr. Dan) was brought by Deacon to ArbCom and thrown out with a comment (from arbitrator Coren): "It is impossible, in this context, to see this request as little more than forum shopping; and an attempt to misuse the committee into a bludgeon in a vendetta.". EOT. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 05:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural note: This enforcement request is concerned solely with the edits of Dr. Dan. Issues relating to any other user should be discussed in their proper place per

WP:DR; such comments may be removed without notice from this thread.  Sandstein  06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

I agree. I tried to refactor this discussion to separate discussion of Radeksz, but Deacon reverted me. See [here].--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 16:25, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This "refactoring"[143] also played down the link about your involvement as "Off-topic discussion concerning Radeksz", even though it shows that you did exactly the same as Dr. Dan. Granted, Deacon needn't and shouldn't have brought up Radeksz at all. But it is poor style to file away a relevant complaint about your role like that. Sciurinæ (talk) 17:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(outdent) Why, given the guideline states The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise, was it processed? It was not normal? Novickas (talk) 01:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Piotrus left that part blank and refrained from informing him. I left Dr Dan a courtesy notice. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 01:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just a little example of Dr Dan's usual practice of turning Wikipedia into a battleground and a laughing stock. Here [144]. Tymek (talk) 05:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tymek, please understand that an AE thread is not for open season on article edits you disagree with. It's to request and discuss the enforcement of arbitration case remedies. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 05:38, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sad. Not encyclopædic, by any reasonable measure. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 17:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A good example of

WP:POINT disruption, although I will add that it is an exception to the rule: majority of controversial edits by Dr. Dan are not in article space, but on talk, where they display much bad faith, and start or contribute to various flames. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

I agree with Deacon of Pndapetzim and I do not consider the edits by Dr. Dan that have so far been provided as liable to trigger an EE sanction for "repeatedly or seriously failing to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process." Speaking for myself only, I will in any case not contemplate any enforcement action as long as the request section contains no notification diff.  Sandstein  05:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Three editors involved in discussion with him have given examples of how he turns the discussions into battlegrounds. Here's another diff: quoting hate speech. His edits are not intended to create a helpful, friendly collaborative editing atmosphere, but to antagonize people and derail any useful discussion with off-topic remarks. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:25, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Piotrus, that comment from Dr. Dan Feb 2008 is addressing an argument you made earlier in that thread. Opinion may vary I suppose as to its relevance, but that "hate speech" is a quote from a former Prime Minister of Israel, offered as an argumentative parallel. This post, like the others you've linked, is well within normal talk page culture on wikipedia. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 16:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's another example of Dr. Dan trying to 1) change the topic from what is being discussed (Holocaust in Lithuania) to something else (Poles and anti-semitism) and 2) doing so in a purposefully provocative manner intended to antagonize other editors (yes, I realize intent is unobservable but a pattern of behavior, as documented here, constitutes indirect evidence for it)

talk) 17:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Are you sure you aren't confusing Dr. Dan with Deacon of Pndapetzim? Dr. Dan seems much quieter here than the latter. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 17:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, I'm commenting on Deacon's comment on Dr. Dan's comment. So it's about Dr. Dan.

talk) 17:38, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Digwuren and Poeticbent, AE is not a battlefield. I suggest both of you keep your grudges away and that neither of you post anything more here unless you are adding evidence related to Piotrus' report. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 21:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by addressing me along with Digwuren? Where did it come from? Your grudge against Piotrus is legendary[146] and requires no new evidence here, however, evidence against Dan presented by Piotrus is a lot stronger than that against Lokyz in the case mentioned above and could easily warrant a 48 hour block. --Poeticbent talk 21:51, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, if this: [147] (note - after this AE started) isn't an attempt to create a battleground and violate WP:Battle then I don't know what is and that policy clearly is meaningless. So Dr. Dan starts a section on talk page called "WP:Plagiarism" and asks "some...editors" to review their edits. When asked to be more specific he starts talking about something else. When the question is repeated he... eh, just see for yourself. The end result is that there's an accusation of plagiarism made, but no specifics, just a general aspersion cast on involved editors. And it continues...

These diffs are getting absurd. Can someone please close this frivolous battle-fest of tendentiousness? Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 00:02, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deacon, how is objecting to a user making very serious and apparently spurious allegations of plagiarism "absurd" or tendentious? Do you think it is ok to make such accusations and then evade making your accusations specific when asked?

talk) 00:34, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

I want to restate my question for Deacon: what exactly is "absurd" or "tendentious" to objecting to frivolous, unsubstantiated and spurious charges of Plagiarism (for which, in real world, students get failed, people get fired, people get sued, reputations are ruined, etc. - all the good reason why Wiki takes copyvio and plagiarism very seriously)?

talk) 01:42, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

There was, um, close paraphrasing at the article - see the talk page [148]. Novickas (talk) 16:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps because "Dr. Dan is opposing Piotrus, hence everything he does is justified"? I would like to stress to any reviewing admin that Deacon is far from neutral, random commentator here: he was the party that started last year's arbcom against me,

this recent Wikiquette alert. I would also like to note that so far, four editors have expressed the concern that Dr. Dan is creating battlegrounds: me, Radeksz, Poeticbent and Tymek. And Dr. Dan was not put on the Digwuren list of users under sanction by accident... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

So you claim that Deacon pretends to be neutral towards you? Actually in the very first comment Deacon did note that you are also involved against him and pointed out the Wikiquette thread himself and didn't decide the result section despite the fact that he's quite involved in general AE handling. Unsurprisingly, you still found your "neutral, random commentator"s instead - in your known friends. But let's analyse the remaining claim in the above comment that hasn't been refuted yet: "for the past year, if not more, he [Deacon] has appeared in (as far as I can recall) every single AE thread started by me and defended the user that I was complaining about". Here are your AE threads for the past year. [149] [150] [151] [152] [153] [154]. In how many of them was he involved? In one - he only provided a relevant link to the RfAr (the other 'argument' you used).

Speaking about assumption of good faith:

• "His edits are not intended to create a helpful, friendly collaborative editing atmosphere, but to antagonize people and derail any useful discussion with off-topic remarks.".[155]
• "remember that no amount of logic and evidence will change the opinion of a nationalist true believer. For some, Vilnius was forever 100% pure Lithuanian Vilnius, likely created that way when the universe begun."[156]
• "Not quite. You agree with me, hence you are suspicous. If you were to disagree with me, you would be beyond doubt. Also, see this, rules #4, #8 and #9 should give you all the information you need :)" (link to "Poles are evil", insinuating a prejudice towards Poles).[157]
• "Delete, in the name of Ministry of Truth = Keep, of course".[158]
• "Perhaps because "Dr. Dan is opposing Piotrus, hence everything he does is justified"?".[159]
• Or from another editor: "chronic illness of good will" ([160]) and linking to a post from himself saying "attempts to harass Polish editors - including me - based on anti-Polish sentiment and bad science). I already spoke about these malevolent campaigns during Eastern European disputes case" ([161]) Sciurinæ (talk) 18:05, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sciurinæ, would you mind telling us what brought you to this AE thread? Last time I checked, we interacted at the arbcom case... And you agree above that Deacon shouldn't have discussed Radeksz, so how do you justify you trying to discuss me and others? I will just end by saying that what we see here is a common pattern: editor A violates our polices, editor B complains about editor A, and is targeted by editors claiming that editor A is violating the policies by daring to discuss editor B, who try to defend editor A by turning the discussion into a discussion of editor B. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:01, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, let me address two pieces of misinformation. One, I've left most of your many AE threads alone, including recently the Lokyz thread (but frankly as probably the most knowledgable admin for this area of regional conflict, other than yourself, I probably should turn up more!). Two, the four users are all your normal tag-team partners I'd expect to turn up here, and if you get more to turn up here that won't make your wonky evidence against Dr Dan more credible. It's no secret that I am one of many many users who have had a problem with much of your behaviour Piotrus, which as you said led to me launching an ArbCom case (your third I think) that led to three remedies against you. However, I'm not against you. I really just wish you'd devote more of your time focusing your efforts on your excellent article building sklls and forming good relationships with people other than those you think will help you win battles. But that's of little relevance here. The long old ad hominems you've been in the habit of launching against me and any one else whenever they try to ensure a fair hearing for one of your ideological "opponents" won't make your "evidence" against this one, Dr Dan, any stronger. Though AE admins can obviously sometimes be fooled, they aren't so naive as this. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 01:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Accusations of tag teaming (smearing not only my name but of several other users), misrepresentation of the ArbCom case (reviewing admins are welcome to look what remedies were made about me and what remedies were made about Deacon...), accusations of personal attacks... yes, I do hope that AE admins will carefully review the posts here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom didn't pass three remedies against you? I will happily admit btw that I got one minor admonition for performing 7 reverts in a 2 week period to a medieval history article you were edit-warring in with poorly-sourced nationalistic nonsense against consensus, but no-one's gonna care, as most of the AE admins have done much worse. But seriously, self-awareness! A user who spends much of his wiki-time IMing with notorious nationalist edit-warriors (like Alden Jones ([162]), Tymek ([163][164]), Poeticbent ([165]), Molobo ([166], [167]), Greg park avenue ([168]), Logologist/Nihil novi ([169])) and who is still collecting emails from others,[170] shouldn't be casting aspersions against [non-eastern European] users in good repute like Sciurinae [171] and myself [172] about collusion. That the editors who've joined you here are your normal tag-teamers is verifiable from a casual browse of their histories, and isn't a personal attack; if you didn't want them mentioned you shouldn't have claimed above, on the AE board where you are pursuing a claim, that they were outside users. The "personal attack" claim is just ridiculous, and is clearly aimed at scaring me and others away from pointing out reality. This is like your earlier claim that I've turned up at every other AE claim you've made in the last year (1 of 6), you're hoping it will get believed without being investigated. You are aware, right, that all this is just noise anyway? Likely no-one will read much beyond your diffs about Dr Dan, and Sandstein has already said your diffs weren't actionable. But battle on if you must ... your tactics speak louder than your claims. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 19:46, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Dr. Dan

No action. As far as I can tell, no uninvolved administrator (or uninvolved user, for that matter) has expressed the opinion that the reported edits warrant any sanctions, and the discussion is becoming entirely unproductive. As an aside, a

User requesting enforcement

Dragons flight (talk) 19:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Ksnow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Arbitration case whose sanctions are to be enforced

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Date delinking

Sanction or remedy that has been violated

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Date_delinking#Temporary_injunction

Diffs

of edits that violate this sanction or remedy

See Abuse Log

Explanation how these edits violate the sanction or remedy at issue

Ksnow has been engaged in a systematic program of editing that includes removing date links. On March 27 I mentioned the injunction to him. [173]. Three days later he blanked the section [174] without response. Since then he has removed date links from a further 150 pages. His edits are following a systematic (and alphabetical) pattern through French town stubs. He isn't only removing date links since he is also editing references and minor portions of other text, but it is clear he is following a systematic program of editing that covers a large number of pages and includes removing date links.

Enforcement action requested (

other sanction

)

I'll let someone else decide what is appropriate. I'd be happy to let this end without any sanction, if the user would stop the problematic edits rather than blanking the warning from their talk page and continuing to remove date links from hundreds of pages.

Additional comments

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[175]

Discussion concerning Ksnow

I agree that Ksnow's edits violate the injunction despite a clear warning. I am blocking him and advising him to make an unblock request stating clearly that he will not continue his programme of date delinking. I suggest this discussion be closed a day or so from now unless there are any further developments in this case.  Sandstein  21:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ksnow has indicated a willingness to discontinue. I request an unblock. --Michael Snow (talk) 16:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See the discussion at my and Ksnow's talk; essentially, I am ready to unblock as soon as Ksnow clearly states that he will discontinue delinking.  Sandstein  20:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Look, it's easy to get carried away with interpretation of this injunction, which has been inconsistent at best. The warning was non-specific and did not cite examples of his alleged "mass de-linking". It is clear that this is yet another
  gnoming editor who has unwittingly fallen foul of the injunction. The user has been making small edits at a rate of roughly one per minute, which are of a diverse nature but which include template changes and statistical updates. The user frequently makes successive edits to an article. It does not appear the editor has been actively delinking dates, as there are few examples of this. What's more, the editor has stated xhe does not use a bot, and has said will stop delinking (even though it is yet to be proven there has been any violation). A quick look of the user sub-pages is sufficient to learn that no scripts are being used - there is no monobook page. I see no legitimate reason to maintain the block on this user. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC) Copied from User talk:Ksnow[reply
  ]

Unblocked per discussion on the talkpage. De-linking of years (not dates which seemed to have caused a communication problem with the editor) was done as part of a wider systematic working the articles in question. Ksnow has said he will no longer delink and no script is used. In is not a good idea to let a very productive content editor stop dead in his tracks over a policy dispute he has expressed no active interest. Agathoclea (talk) 08:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]