Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Nigeria
Points of interest related to Nigeria on Wikipedia: Outline – History – Portal – Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Deletions – Cleanup – Stubs – Assessment |
This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Nigeria. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
- Adding a new AfD discussion
- Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
- Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
- You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Nigeria|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
- Note that there are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
- Removing a closed AfD discussion
- Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
- Other types of discussions
- You can also add and remove links to other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Nigeria.
- Further information
- For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.
This list is also part of the larger list of deletion debates related to Africa.
watch |
- See also: Wikipedia:Africa-related regional notice board
Nigeria
Paschal Ekeji
- Paschal Ekeji (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, Nigeria, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 18:36, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Few bits that look close to being WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)]
Instablog9ja.com
- Instablog9ja.com (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I'm not finding anything in a BEFORE search that establishes the notability of this blog/website. All I see online is the blogs own posts on other social media platforms like twitter and X. I also see to bloggish/churnalist-type stories where the writer is guessing or implying who the author of the blog may be. Fails GNG, NCORP and WP:WEBCRIT. Netherzone (talk) 16:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Technology, Websites, and Nigeria. Netherzone (talk) 16:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Please check the references I made Realcontribution (talk) 22:39, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh i see where you're heading to how about if you check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Take_Out
- You will notice that they didn't add much references still it wasn't nominated for speedy deletion Realcontribution (talk) 23:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
RanoGaz Company - LPG
- RanoGaz Company - LPG (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No evidence of any notability. Refs are not about the company, rather about people complaining about the high price of gas. Fails
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. Velella Velella Talk 21:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Carterson
- Carterson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Olanrewaju Smart
- Olanrewaju Smart (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Politicians, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Chief of Staff to the Speaker, House of Representatives is a notable position in Nigerian politics. His successor Jake Dan-Azumi also has a Wikipedia article. Batmanthe8th (talk) 17:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- @WP:GNG which this one and the one you have pointed me to utterly fails. Even the COS page is AfD-worthy. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)]
- I recall accepting the COS page a while back on the generous side due to its notable role in Nigerian politics. I didn't nessesarily imagine the individual people getting their own articles unless they were notable for something else, though. TheBritinator (talk) 23:22, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
- Keep: being the WP:42 FuzzyMagma (talk) 22:24, 27 April 2024 (UTC)]
Tobi Mohammed
- Tobi Mohammed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Source assessment table:
| ||||
Source | Independent?
|
Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG ?
|
---|---|---|---|---|
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2022/09/13/the-plug-topboy-entertainment-formalise-merger-announce-mohammed-as-managing-partner | Promotional piece about the merger of The Plug and TopBoy Entertainment | Even though ThisDay is reliable per WP:NGRS , No byline used in the piece. Promotional nature of this piece also affects its reliability
|
~ Mostly about the merger of The Plug and TopBoy Entertainment | ✘ No |
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2022/10/16/oluwatobi-mohammed-the-young-entertainment-disruptor | Promotional piece that is not entirely independent | Ditto | ✘ No | |
https://tribuneonlineng.com/tobi-mohammed-a-journey-of-innovation-from-tech-to-entertainment/ | This source appears to be a promotional profile piece on Tobi Mohammed. | Even though per WP:NGRS , Nigerian Tribune is reliable, the promotional nature of this article affects its reliability.
|
✘ No | |
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/11/from-dream-to-reality-the-inspiring-journey-of-topboy-entertainment/ | This source seems to be a promotional piece about TopBoy Entertainment. | Source is marginally reliable per WP:NGRS , and the promotional nature of this article affects its reliability
|
The article provides significant coverage of the journey of TopBoy Entertainment | ✘ No |
https://www.turntablecharts.com/news/1256 | ~ This source is a promotional piece about Tobi Mohammed’s BlockParty series. | Even though the promo from here oozes, it does not affect this context. | This is about Tobi Mohammed’s BlockParty series and not Tobi Mohammed himself | ✘ No |
https://digimillennials.com/music/offstage-alhaji-popping/ | No byline used in piece and reads promotional | ✘ No | ||
https://socialmediaweeklagos2020.sched.com/speaker/tobi27 | This source is a profile of Tobi Mohammed from the Social Media Week Lagos 2020 event. | Promotional profile | ✘ No | |
https://dailypost.ng/2023/06/09/tobi-mohammed-shares-invaluable-insights-on-soft-power/ | Obvious sponsored content | Even though Daily Post is reliable, this is an obvious sponsored content | ✘ No | |
https://notjustok.com/article/afrobeats-live-and-awards-power-players-2019/ | No byline used | Not specifically about the subject | ✘ No | |
https://www.turntablecharts.com/magazine/3rd/57 | Ditto | ~ | Ditto | ✘ No |
https://www.turntablecharts.com/news/1184 | Ditto | ~ | Ditto | ✘ No |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}. |
Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: We had this about a year ago, here we are again, still not notable. The source chart is overly generous with a few sources, but I agree it's a !delete, this is PROMO. Oaktree b (talk) 23:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Entertainment, and Management. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete looks like promotion per sources provided. No deep coverage by independent sources. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 11:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. The subject of this article has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources. Some of the sources (ThisDay) cited in the article are not independent of him and others (The Nation newspaper) are promotional to say the least. The awards he has won or been nominated for aren't notable. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 17:15, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Evangeline Wiles
- Evangeline Wiles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
8-year orphaned permastub on a "technology entrepreneur" with a single middling reference. BD2412 T 20:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. BD2412 T 20:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Technology, and Nigeria. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete I can only find press releases saying she's running this panel or other. BrigadierG (talk) 22:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Speaker at xyz event, is about all there is for coverage about this person. One line stub that we can delete. Vaguely PROMO, not enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 00:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete subject lacks GNG as most of the sources available online are just press releases, not enough to establish notability. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 11:29, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Kent Edunjobi
- Kent Edunjobi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
An article about an individual that doesn't meet out
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Artists, and Nigeria. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 09:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Significant awards (https://thenet.ng/kent-edunjobi-wins-first-amvca-for-anikulapo-soundtrack/) -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 14:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- WP:ANYBIO doesn't mean the person is notable. It means likely and the award hasn't be credited multiple times. My major concern here is the source as much of them are somewhat PR. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 06:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)]
- Weak keep: As pointed out by Mushy Yank, the subject won a major award. Moreover, he has produced the soundtrack to notable films such as Roti, Citation, A Naija Christmas, and Anikulapo. Although majority of the sources (1, 2, 3, 4) discussing the subject aren't independent of him, I feel like the two previous facts stated are enough for a weak keep. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 21:25, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Jeff Unaegbu
- Jeff Unaegbu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I came about this article during clean up and saw it's contains a bit vague and non verifiable content. Taking into cleaning up, I became tired at the line seeing almost if not all the sources lacks editorial guidelines, perhaps doesn't go with our policy and guidelines for
On the other hand, apart from the quality percentage of primary sources linking to book that were self published in the platforms such as Amazon, etc., the article generally doesn't meet
The books he wrote doesn't meet our guidelines for
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Authors, and Nigeria. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 01:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: I once looked at this article and realized that it was created when some of the links verifying some information were not yet dead links. It was created in 2010 or so. For such kind of articles, caution is required. I saw that he was mentioned by the Nigerian author, Chimamanda Adichie in the New Yorker Magazine and he was involved in creating the Occupy Nigeria protests online. There is also some newspaper articles (see Newswatch) on his writings, especially his poem on Lagos, said to be the longest metrical poem by a Nigerian. I think it needs serious clean up and I may help to find his recent activities. Royalrumblebee (talk) 16:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Royalrumblebee, dead links doesn't mean anything. There is the Wayback machine for saving pages to archives. While you argue about being mentioned by notable Nigerian writers, it's not a criteria for notability. Almost all the references are links to his publications and things about him were written from a PR which is no shadowed to the eye. In any case, provide me with the links that credibly show this article meets notability. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 11:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok. I found some of his academic publications, including two in JSTOR. But I will look for articles about him, and really- I share your opinion about making sure articles meet notability to remain in this encyclopaedia. Note: see https://orcid.org/0000-0001-6285-4800 Royalrumblebee (talk) 11:08, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Royalrumblebee, that can't be a source. It's a database. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 20:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh ok @Daily Trust as another reliable Nigerian newspaper and it told the in-depth story of how he and other two writers (Gimba Kakanda and Richard Ali created the Occupy Nigeria group that online-remotely organized the protests in Nigeria in 2012 (https://dailytrust.com/the-occupants-of-nigerias-harmattan/). I also see Newswatch (Nigeria) as a reliable Nigerian newspaper made a full page review of his book and it states in its first line as well as in details later that "Jeff Unaegbu's This Lagos Na Wa has set a record as the longest poem written by a Nigerian! (https://web.archive.org/web/20120504135846/http://www.newswatchngr.com/editorial/prime/bob/10326094437.htm). Other reliable newspapers that mentioned him only in passing are the American magazine The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/notes-on-grief);
- This Day here (https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2020/09/15/james-nwoye-adichie-1932-2020);
- Daily Post (Nigeria) here (https://dailypost.ng/2014/05/02/ekweremadu-donates-transformer-nsukka-community/);
- There are many more, but less reliable links that mentioned him in depth such as this (https://www.gistmania.com/talk/topic,61413.0.html). I have already inserted in the article his direct activities as a journalist reporting for Vanguard (Nigeria).
- My honest opinion is that inexperienced editors added a lot of unreliable links such as amazon over the reliable ones and so the article only needs serious clean up. I have seen articles in Wikipedia held by just one reference that is not as reliable as the ones I saw on this article. I have included the reliable links above already too. Thanks. Royalrumblebee (talk) 04:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Royalrumblebee, all these sources doesn't link or explained the article like one. For example, a source can say "John Doe is a Nigerian writer who was awarded an MFR by the president of the country. He hasbeen recognized in .....". Then another days "John Doe said he was awarded an MFR by president Doe. In a speech by the president, the world revognised many people and John Doe, standing at the outside asked who is the president." In both sources, the first one seems to he verifiable, significantly covered albeit requires multiple confirmation. It also was taking about John Doe,while the second was taking about an event he attended while giving much view on the president. The thing about John Doe was reported by him—so it's not verifiable. I believe this can help though not broadly covered. Thanks! — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 15:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh ok @
- Royalrumblebee, that can't be a source. It's a database. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 20:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok. I found some of his academic publications, including two in JSTOR. But I will look for articles about him, and really- I share your opinion about making sure articles meet notability to remain in this encyclopaedia. Note: see https://orcid.org/0000-0001-6285-4800 Royalrumblebee (talk) 11:08, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Royalrumblebee, dead links doesn't mean anything. There is the Wayback machine for saving pages to archives. While you argue about being mentioned by notable Nigerian writers, it's not a criteria for notability. Almost all the references are links to his publications and things about him were written from a PR which is no shadowed to the eye. In any case, provide me with the links that credibly show this article meets notability. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 11:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Adeseha Wuraola Becky
- Adeseha Wuraola Becky (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The subject of this article fails
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, and Nigeria. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 22:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 22:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Same as the previous deletion. My mind is why there seems always to be a minimal participation for consensus reach. However, an article created barely two /four days after deletion. What am I suspecting? Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 16:47, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Versace1608, isn't this G4 you could have tagged. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 16:49, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Safari Scribe, I wasn't aware that the article was previously deleted. I only learned this info after nominating it. Sometimes if an article is different from the one that was previously deleted, the admin handling the speedy deletion will decline the G4 request. I have experienced this in the past. Anyways, thanks for the message. Welcome to Wikipedia and thanks for your contributions to this site. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 17:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- You can't G4 on a prod/soft delete. Desertarun (talk) 18:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. The refs check out. She doesn't pass Nactor, nor does she need to because she passes both Basic and GNG. Desertarun (talk) 18:10, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:07, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Paulin Basinga
- Paulin Basinga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Appears PROMO. I don't see articles about this individual, only interviews or use of him as an expert on xyz health topic in various media. Odd that all sourcing here is from Nigeria, but none in the home country, possible "pay to publish" as we see typically in Nigerian media. I have my concerns, bringing ti AfD to discuss. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Health and fitness and Rwanda. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Nigeria, and Washington. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 15:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- I oppose!
- In the beginning, I read about him and his works. For clarification, it may seem to be promo but factually it is not.
- In facts, connectively, I read that in the home country he was a university lecturer, researcher and consultant. These can be limits to his articles other than interviews or use of him as an expert. But I considered it notable because he featured on international articles including those of World Bank and BMGF. It is referenced that later on, he has featured on other institutions such as Global Citizen and UGHE.
- I do not see any problem with sources from Nigeria because based on reliable sources, it shows that his work in leadership role at BMGF were about Africa and the biggest office there was in Nigeria.
- However, If we test him in Rwanda, below are some articles about him but there are in Kinyarwanda;
- Thanks. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oaktree b, a drive-by comment: are you insinuating that "pay-to-publish" determines the nature of Nigeria media. I can't see much coverage if not two from Nigerian source. Don't you think it's below the belt?
Back to deletion discussion! — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 08:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)- I'm not sure, we see it all too often here in AfD; Nigerian and Indian media seem to have a history of publishing iffy articles on people with no relation to the country. When I see an article that's only sourced to Nigerian media when the subject doesn't have a connection to the country (or a partial connection), it's a red flag. Oaktree b (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- I never knew the story about Nigerian and Indian media, and I think we should not easily globalize because from this subject, mathematically, the sources from Nigerian media are less than 30%. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 11:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure, we see it all too often here in AfD; Nigerian and Indian media seem to have a history of publishing iffy articles on people with no relation to the country. When I see an article that's only sourced to Nigerian media when the subject doesn't have a connection to the country (or a partial connection), it's a red flag. Oaktree b (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 16:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep There is sufficient coverage, and it does not matter which country's media covers it (or the language) as long as the refs ares notability guidelines, and merits a stand-alone article, which this article does. Generalising and casting aspersions on a developing country's media is most unhelpful, and is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia, and its goal in fighting against Wikipedia:Systemic bias. We do not know whether subject paid for it or not, and without facts, we should be mindful of casting aspersions on the credibility of others. It it is most unhelpful, and I hope the nom strike out that comment in their nomination and the response to Safari Scribe. I totally agree with Safari Scribe. It is unwarranted and below the belt.Tamsier (talk)
Afro fusion
- Afro fusion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This particular music genre fails
Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
| ||||
Source | Independent?
|
Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG ?
|
---|---|---|---|---|
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374 | An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre. | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | |
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette | An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | |
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/ | Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion. | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | |
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/ | All of the article's material was copied from another blog | Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No |
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/ | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | ||
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/ | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | ||
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246 | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | ||
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go | Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | |
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists | Article contains several quotations from Mango | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | |
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/ | Semi-indepedent | The source does not discuss the genre whatsover | ✘ No | |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}. |
Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
- A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([1])
- "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [2] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
- "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [3] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
- "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
- "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
- Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: So WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)]
- Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or subgenre of afrobeats[11][12]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)]
- Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Bernadine okoro
- I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [13]
- I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
- I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [14], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
- @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
- Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
- Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[17][18][19]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[20]. Also, I find this statement broad
- “By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”
- For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[21]
- Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23].
- So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .
- "but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [24] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[25] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [26]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [27].
- Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.
- Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.
- The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).
- I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
- Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.
- "Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.
- The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.
- Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [28], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.
- As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.
- Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)]
- Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [29][30][31] [32][33][34]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [35]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [36]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)]
- Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[37] [38] [39]
- Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly strumming pattern.[46]
- If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?
- Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in like 3 sentences in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [47]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[48]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."
- As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlifekpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".
- In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].
- The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.
- Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[49]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[50]
- As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[51][52][53] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [54][55][56].
- Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[57][58][59] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)
- There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [60][61][62][63], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.
- You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.
- Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [64]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and bluesfor numerous, obvious reasons.
- Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [65], [66] [67] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [68][69][70] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43
- Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
- Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of
- But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a
- To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
- As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.
- As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.
- It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
- Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Bernadine okoro
- Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Dxneo, I believe you didn't read his comments. Handsomeboy meant that most of the supposedly afro fusion artists are always derivative of the main genre Afrobeats, which is most to everyone. Infact, their music is afro beats and there is neither a reason why there should be some wrong claim of those artists' music being called afro fusion. We're here to build an Encyclopedia and it must be "just" as neutral as possible. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 06:04, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Kenya. dxneo (talk) 21:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To hear from more independent editors please
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)]
- @Slashme: Can you please provide a link to page 67? I believe you have access to this book since you've read page 67. I am trying to read the page you claimed discusses the genre in "good detail". I can't access it on my end without paying a fee. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 22:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Versace1608, here is a link to p.66, where the discussion of Afro Fusion starts --Slashme (talk) 14:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the link. I disagree with your claim that the book discusses the genre in good detail. As a matter of fact, the genre isn't discussed at all. The four paragraphs that make up the section "Developing Afro fusion" is primarily about GidiGidi MajiMaji and Eric Wainanina's respective albums (Ismarwa and Sawa Sawa). The author also stated that those two acts are significant figures in Kenya's Afro fusion scene. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 17:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree with your statement that "the genre isn't discussed at all". It talks about the institutional sponsors of Afro Fusion, the way that it's rooted in local culture, and the annual music festivals surrounding the genre. Saying that it's primarily about those two albums seems to me to be a strange mischaracterisation of the content. In fact, in the opening paragraph, the author says "Fostered by Nairobi's NGO sector and cosmopolitan middle class, and linked to the global 'world music' circuit, Kenyan Afro-fusion is marked by an aesthetic emphasis on live instrumentation over digitally programmed accompaniments, and the attempt to 'fuse' African aesthetics with Western popular music. It has thrived, as I will describe, on patronage from nongovernmental cultural institutions that find value in its underlying aim of cultivating a more modern 'Kenyan' sound." She then goes on to talk about these aspects in detail. This goes way beyond a simple mention of the topic, and absolutely supports the notability claim. Also, that section isn't the only part of the book that mentions the topic. It's referred to over and over again in discussions of the work of other artists. --Slashme (talk) 13:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the link. I disagree with your claim that the book discusses the genre in good detail. As a matter of fact, the genre isn't discussed at all. The four paragraphs that make up the section "Developing Afro fusion" is primarily about GidiGidi MajiMaji and Eric Wainanina's respective albums (Ismarwa and Sawa Sawa). The author also stated that those two acts are significant figures in Kenya's Afro fusion scene. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 17:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Versace1608, here is a link to p.66, where the discussion of Afro Fusion starts --Slashme (talk) 14:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Slashme: Can you please provide a link to page 67? I believe you have access to this book since you've read page 67. I am trying to read the page you claimed discusses the genre in "good detail". I can't access it on my end without paying a fee. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 22:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 16:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: This is an article about music. However, looking at the discussion per se, it looks like the normal "Nigeria vs Ghana", ..vs South Africa", etc. On a note, Afro fusion does exist but for the article, it has so many claims even the ones removed and it alleges or neither shows it was written from a personal point of view (just like fans of Cristiano Ronaldo and fans of Lionel Messi will do to both article). There is only one way out: deletion to neutrality and a fundamental rewrite which should pass AFC and being to NPP. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 17:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per Slashme. There is sufficient coverage in notability guidelines. However, I would suggest renaming to Afro fusion (music) to differentiate it from Afro fusion (cuisine) when created, as an editor noted above.Tamsier (talk) 18:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)]
- Tamsier, renaming will be discussed separately after this AfD is closed and if/when the cuisine is created. dxneo (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Tamsier, even if this should be closed as keep, it remains the primary topic and I can't find much research of the "cuisine". Until then, let's focus on AFD. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 06:06, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Fredrick Nwabufo
- Fredrick Nwabufo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Journalism and Nigeria. Broc (talk) 09:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Fredrick Nwabufo is Nigerian Journalist who have constantly conversed for good governance, improved security and commenting on national issues using journalism as well being a columnist on major National newspaper in Nigeria as a tool to disseminate his constant call for good governance and Patriotism. He is also currently the Senior Special Assistant to President Bola Tinubu on Public engagement where he is saddled with the responsibility of interfacing between the government and the Nigerian public.
- I believe this article deserve a place on Wikipedia.
- Thanks. AromeArome (talk) 22:01, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- @]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:42, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Seems to have had a reasonable amount of coverage to meet WP:GNG. He's also a senior advisor to the Nigerian president, so not really fair to call him a "run of the mill" journalist. Article needs NPOV cleanup, though. AusLondonder (talk) 12:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 16:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)- Keep, agree with what AusLondoner said above. Does need to be better when it comes to NPOV. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Semzi
- Semzi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Weak keep: I'm almost certain the award nominations are notable, but we still need better sourcing for more biographical information. Oaktree b (talk) 15:25, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- More research would be done to support article with more sourcing for biographical information. The subject is quite a notable individual with just probably limited press publications ReoMartins (talk) 18:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ReoMartins Well, now you’re taking. As far as I know, there are a lot of notable people in real life who can’t a Wikipedia entry because they don’t meet the necessary Wikipedia notability criteria. Wikipedia’s notability is not exactly real world notability. The current status of this article doesn’t meet up, not that they’re not notable or influential in real life. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- More research would be done to support article with more sourcing for biographical information. The subject is quite a notable individual with just probably limited press publications ReoMartins (talk) 18:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. The subject does not meet any criteria outlined in WP:MUSICBIO. None of the sources cited in the article actually discuss the subject. His nominations at the Beatz Awards aren't enough to justify a stand-alone article. Versace1608 Wanna Talk? 15:00, 3 April 2024 (UTC)]
- Weak keep: I agree with Oaktree B that this is a weak keep due to the award nominations. His other sources are weak.Maxcreator (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Draftify: and mark as promised. Majority of the sources in the article doesn't meet SIGCOV and while the awards merits notability: it's still not much for a standalone entry on Wikipedia. I will remove some sources that didn't add to notability. For my vote (if draftified) can be marked as "promising", since there is a partial way to notability in the future!Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 20:40, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Source assessment table:
| ||||
Source | Independent?
|
Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG ?
|
---|---|---|---|---|
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/02/bad-boy-timz-is-one-of-nigerias-best-singers-ive-worked-with-semzi/amp/ | Was talking about the subject | Vanguard is reliable per WP:NGRS
|
~ Much like an about music interview | ~ Partial |
https://guardian.ng/saturday-magazine/weekend-beats/producing-songs-for-davido-mayorkun-the-highlight-of-my-career-so-far-semzi/ | Ditto | Guardian Nigeria is reliable per WP:NGRS
|
Normally, Weekend Beats sounds like PR | ✘ No |
https://the49thstreet.com/49th-exclusive-semzi/ | Above | Blog sites | Interview and blog post | ✘ No |
https://pan-african-music.com/en/nigerian-producers-2022/ | ~ A list that mentions articles, more of featuring, no PR here | ~ See editorial | List | ✘ No |
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/review-dj-consequence-vibes-from-the-future/jhle44r | No mention | Per WP:NGRS
|
No mention | ✘ No |
https://culturecustodian.com/bad-boy-timzs-mj/ | No mention | Ditto | No mention | ✘ No |
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/11/nicki-minaj-nas-ifeanyi-adeleke-feature-on-davidos-a-better-time-album/ | No metion | Per above | No mention of the subject | ✘ No |
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/mayorkun-features-victony-on-holy-father/jbrp0lg | Ditto | See above | No mention | ✘ No |
https://www.okayafrica.com/joeboy-drops-new-music-album/ | No mention | Okay Africa is reliable | Applied same as above | ✘ No |
https://www.morebranches.com/omah-lay-couples-with-more-emotions-on-the-deluxe-version-of-boy-alone/ | No mention | Not a reliable source, blog or PR | Same as above | ✘ No |
https://guardian.ng/life/listen-ajebo-hustlers-featuring-fave-in-love/ | Mention! | Why not? | More like PR—get away magazine mention; just mention | ✘ No |
https://culturecustodian.com/bad-boy-timz-serves-new-visuals-for-faya-from-empires-where-we-come-from-vol-1-compilation-album/ | Passing mention | Per WP:NGRS
|
Inherent mention | ✘ No |
https://www.max1023.fm/boy-spyce-releases-new-single-relationship/ | Les or no mention | Max FM is a Lagos based television channel | Inherent notability only on Boy Source | ✘ No |
https://culturecustodian.com/no-bad-boy-no-party-highlights-significant-moments-in-bad-boy-timzs-journey/ | Passing mention | Culture custodian is a reliable source | Still on production. Inherent notability | ✘ No |
https://soundcity.tv/afropop-sensation-bad-boy-timz-unveils-debut-album-no-bad-boy-no-party/ | Focuses on Bad Boy Time, a Nigerian artist | Sound City TV is a Nigerian television music channel | Focus lacking on the subject | ✘ No |
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/victony-features-14-artists-on-new-song-ohema/8988dbp | Passing mention | Like above | Doesn't meet notability | ✘ No |
https://randr.ng/nominations-list-the-beatz-award-2021/ | List | Rhythm and Rhyme is a blog site | List | ✘ No |
https://thebeatzawards.com/winners-perfecto/ | ~ List | For the award but not for other citations | Being nominated doesn't mean notability. Per WP:ENT , the subject must have been nominated multiple times of a major award
|
✘ No |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}. |
- Delete: After analysis of the source above, I was convinced of the many "passing mentions", "no mention" and more generated in citing sources relating to PR. Nothing to draftify again. It doesn't meet WP:PRODUCER. Each of the sources either mention, or not at all, or about a music one of an artist he had worked for previously. Delete is the "best" alternative. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 13:22, 17 April 2024 (UTC)]
- In one of the discussions and sources, it submits an evidence about this act who just recently co-produced a track that has over ten credible and notable artistes from Sub-Sahara Africa featured. These artistes have their wiki pages, I believe the professional who takes up the task to fuse these different acts into a single musical project is worthy of an article on Wikipedia as well. ReoMartins (talk) 13:19, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- @WP:INHERITED. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:08, 18 April 2024 (UTC)]
- @
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:19, 23 April 2024 (UTC)- Liz, there is already a consensus here if by analysis of the arguments above. Isn't see the reason for relisting. Most importantly, the keep isn't strong enough or showed how the article meets inclusion. The source table can also be reviewed to see blatant addition of sources that doesn't mention the article. (Just a 'simpler' suggestion. ) — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 09:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- @SafariScribe Hehe, if I was an administrator, I would have relisted this discussion too, so don't worry, Liz made the right decision. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vanderwaalforces, Sure. It's just that Liz doesn't take time analysing such deletions. Welp, it's good getting clearer consensus. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 14:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- @SafariScribe Hehe, if I was an administrator, I would have relisted this discussion too, so don't worry, Liz made the right decision. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Liz, there is already a consensus here if by analysis of the arguments above. Isn't see the reason for relisting. Most importantly, the keep isn't strong enough or showed how the article meets inclusion. The source table can also be reviewed to see blatant addition of sources that doesn't mention the article. (Just a 'simpler' suggestion. ) — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 09:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Working with subjects that pass GNG is not enough to provide notability. While I see subject having some nominations, I fail to see WP:NPRODUCER here by secondary sources.Tumbuka Arch (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)]