Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Croatia/Archive 5
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Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Yugoslavia vs. Serbia and Montenegro at the Olympics
Hello, we would like your input on where FR Yugoslavia's results at the Olympics should be listed. Here is the relevant discussion. JoshMartini007 (talk) 18:32, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Nobility in medieval Kingdom of Hungary
Hello, I'm here to ask for help reaching consensus at Talk:Conditional noble, which concerns certain categories of nobility, including for example the Croat Nobles of Turopolje. I was asked in for a WP:Third opinion, but there is still disagreement and more eyes would be helpful. Thank you. FrankP (talk) 17:16, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I have comments. The conditional noble name is obscure as well as semi-noble. In Croatia there were predialist who came to the title Baron. It is the Makar family, which at the time of liberation wars from the Turks in the late 17th century got the title baron. Also in Croatia, by the Croatian Parliament in 1752, a smaller part of the bishop's predialist was listed. Because they enjoyed all the rights of the nobility. But that was not over until the end.
It is a problem of Hungary and Croatia, which from 1945 to 1990 were under communism. And communist rulers practically in all respects defended the nobility, and through various quasi-scientific works. So only those papers that deal with the subject of the predialist are good ones that were made before 1945 or show original documents that speak the opposite of mine states that Rady is an experta for the medieval history of Hungary. No expert is sitting in England and writing books without a single archive document. Expert becomes prolonged archival research and work on original documents. So if he's an expert on medieval history, why he deals with problems in relations between Croats and Serbs in the 1990s. It's like a veterinarian starts to heal people. England has long been pursuing its policy toward Eastern Europe. That is why, in England, such institutions as the School of Slavonic and East European Studies were created.There are also schools for other parts of the world, and in the interest of English politics.
I personally investigate historically about predialist. The term predialist binds to the Latin word predium - possession. I currently prescribe a court dispute between Valentino Kirinić, the predialist, and the Zagreb Church and the Zagreb County. In that document from 1808-1827. all the documents from 1217 to the Habsburg rulers were mentioned. So in these writings I also find in Latin: Prediales seu Nobiles Ecclesiae Vasalos. Namely, in 1094, King Ladislaus I of Hungary founded the Zagreb Diocese and gave possession of his possessions. Predialist are vassals of the church, not vassals of kings. Predialist are obliged to fight under the flag of the church, not under the royal flag. If the church opposes the king, then the predialist stand by the church. Also, predialist inherit their predominant possessions on the male line. Predialist did not pay tax to the king. Preachers could also be taken by priests, canons and bishops (after education and studies). Also every canon, and the canon could only be a nobleman, could have given his relatives a predominant possession. This is especially the case in Croatia, Varaždinske Toplice since the 12th century various gifts became property of the Church of Zagreb, before the donations were noble possessions, and the nobility remained afterwards. So even after that, they could not live up to their possessions. For example, the predialist properties are from the genus Škrlec whose ancestors were the cousins of the Zagreb canonical. Also in the XVII. The century can also be Peter Knapich, whose cousins became predialist. There are many such examples. The English had no such thing and they could not understand it.
That is why I think the title of the article should be Predialist, and in the article should be avoided the terms "conditional noble" and "semi-noble".
And how there is a relevant source - in archives. I said Rady can not be called an expert if he's sitting in England and writing there. There are numerous sources for various archives. Let him come and search. I have stated a credible source and there are many. That which does not exist in English does not really give rise to inaccuracies. Because the neuk then invoke English wikipedia. And I challenge anyone to find a source of archives in which to write conditionalis nobilitatis, conditionarius nemesek, or uvjetno plemstvo (conditional noble) - and let me in the digital photo give me a quotation of the archival source - which is the archive and the correct signature.
It is not believable that everyone is writing, but it is credible that it can be checked on the basis of archival sources. Latin was a language of middle ages and diplomacy, so the vast majority of documents were written in Latin. There is also a small number of documents written in Croatian or Hungarian. Here I re-enter the archival source:Arhives of the Archidiocese of Zagreb, Protocol: 827 Processus Kirinich contra comitatum Zagrabiensis 1807-1816, pages 209-222.
That is why I remain with the title of the article to be a Predialist, to remove the words "conditional noble" and "semi-noble" from the article. For "conditional noble" and "semi-noble" historically in the Croatian-Hungarian kingdom never existed.
I have already asked for some photos of the photographs to be published, on the basis of which Rady and Engel claim that the predialist are conditioned noblemen or semi-nobles. Today, everyone can go home without looking at any archive, writing any book with quotation, and that book does not have to answer the truth.
I am looking to publish cited documents where it would have been proven that before 1945 the predialist were called conditional nobles. Such a document does not exist. The noblemen of Turopolje are the true noblemen, which was confirmed by the rulers' documents in the 16th century. There is a record of more than 400 noblemen of the then Križevci County and Zagreb County that the noblemen of Turopolje are free nobles, not Juraj Branderburg assets.
Let no one hide behind the role of a scientist unless he proves that such a document exists. The main character of the predialist, that they are not the subjects of the king, but the church, and that they correspond to churches and churches are paying taxes. There are a number of examples in Croatia where real noblemen became predialists; like Kirinić, Horvat, Bešenić, Žugec, Sopić, Kitonić ... So it can not be said that the predominants are semi-nobles, or conditional nobles. The Croatian nobility and history has never used a term conditional nobleman. That term was left after 1945 by those who hated every kind of nobility. From the ranks of the Predialist, it is also the bishop of Zagreb, Petar II Domitrović (15 July 1613 - 1629). --Dmitar Zvonimir (talk) 13:57, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
- Just for the record, multiple books written by historians prove that there were several categories of semi-nobles. Martyn Rady calls them conditional nobles in his book dedicated to the subject. Borsoka (talk) 14:44, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Title: "Slavic paganism" or "Slavic religion"?
More opinions needed in this discussion.--
hrfilm.hr
http://hrfilm.hr has been dead for a while, apparently gone without a replacement. Does anyone know what happened? GregorB (talk) 15:29, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
Focus on Croatia at Women in Red
In May 2018, in conjunction with m:Wikimedia CEE Spring 2018/Article Lists, Women in Red is focusing on the countries of Central and Eastern Europe. We hope there will be contributions on Croatian women.
Welcome to Women in Red's May 2018 worldwide online editathons.
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(To subscribe: |
--Ipigott (talk) 15:28, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Wiki4MediaFreedom
Hi. If you have time, please take a look on meta at this page m:Wiki4MediaFreedom contest. It's an event organized by Rossella Vignola (OBC), there is a list of articles to improve also on English wikipedia.--Alexmar983 (talk) 20:37, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.
Portals are being redesigned.
The new design features are being applied to existing portals.
At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template {{Transclude lead excerpt}}.
The discussion about this can be found here.
Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.
Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.
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Thank you. — The Transhumanist 07:33, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
Prtlog vs Prklog vs Duga Luka
We would like to have some help from a Croatian speaker to help us sort out this redirect discussion (daily log page). Deryck C. 10:16, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
Republic of Ragusa article
At
Open letter to Jimbo Wales on the state of Croatian Wikipedia
I've just written an open letter on the state of Croatian Wikipedia. You can find it in Jimbo's talk page. A short summary: there is major administrator abuse, far-right bias and historical revisionism going on there, owing largely to a handful of admins.
Whether sending all this to Jimbo was the right course of action or not, I don't know and frankly by now I do not care: I know of no other meaningful alternative.
Pinging Joy and Saxum as hr wiki admins - this is just FYI. GregorB (talk) 21:04, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Small correction - my admin rights over there had been removed some time ago, as I have not contributed in quite a while. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:21, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- I had no idea. Do you have a link? ——Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:37, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
RfC on election/referendum naming format
An RfC on moving the year from the end to the start of article titles (e.g.
RfC - Operation Storm
There is a RfC that is of interest to this project here. Feel free to have your say. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:43, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
"Serbo-Croatian"
A discussion related to
references to zakon.hr
There's this site which does their own composition of Croatian laws, which tries to cut to the chase and provide a pročišćeni tekst at all times - the Parliament doesn't seem to publish those consistently. However, they also omit the preamble and the signature of each law, and post what seems to be a very dubious copyright notice, including in their terms of use at https://www.zakon.hr/cms.htm?id=900, where they claim authorship to the redaction process, which is not a particularly creative process so I find it hard to believe it can be copyrighted at all. It says it's a non-profit venture, but it's registered not to an association (udruga) but a limited liability company (d.o.o.). I'm not sure we should be linking to them, even if it is convenient. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:43, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not sure either if their copyright claim would stand in the court, but is there a policy-based reason not to link to them? GregorB (talk) 11:10, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- They're not reliable. I don't know how to even start assessing if they have proper editorial oversight to avoid errors (the copyright claim makes such an assumption dubious), or if they're professionals, or if they have a good reputation... It's essentially a peculiarly formatted blog. Whereas the authoritative source is also readily available, with different formatting, but without the other issues. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:07, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
There are still quite a few references to zakon.hr. If somebody wants to tackle them, a possible procedure would be to search for them on wikipedia with insource:"zakon.hr" , and then search for real laws in Narodne Novine Web pages using Google by prepending this site:narodne-novine.nn.hr , or possibly this site:nn.hr to the Google search terms and then replace the zakon.hr ref with the nn.hr ref. Notrium (talk) 15:01, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
WP 1.0 Bot Beta
Hello! Your WikiProject has been selected to participate in the WP 1.0 Bot rewrite beta. This means that, starting in the next few days or weeks, your assessment tables will be updated using code in the new bot, codenamed Lucky. You can read more about this change on the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team page. Thanks! audiodude (talk) 06:47, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
Muraköz/Medimurje
Dear members,
please look on the discussion in the
Input required at Talk:Nikola Šubić Zrinski#Real name
Interested and experienced editors of this WikiProject might want to see the dispute at
15:10, 27 May 2019 (UTC)RfC: Splitting of the article "White Croats"
There is currently a Request-for-Comment open about restructuring the White Croats article. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.--Nicoljaus (talk) 11:29, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
Requested move
An editor has requested that {{subst:linked|National Liberation Movement in Croatia}} be moved to {{subst:#if:|{{subst:linked|{{{2}}}}}|another page}}{{subst:#switch: project |user | USER = . Since you had some involvement with 'National Liberation Movement in Croatia', you |#default = , which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You}} are invited to participate in [[{{subst:#if:|{{subst:#if:|#{{{section}}}|}}|{{subst:#if:|Talk:National Liberation Movement in Croatia#{{{section}}}|{{subst:TALKPAGENAME:National Liberation Movement in Croatia}}}}}}|the move discussion]]. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:03, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
"The Curious Case of Croatian Wikipedia"
So I've wrote an opinion piece for The Signpost, titled "The Curious Case of Croatian Wikipedia". It's a condensed version of my open letter to Jimbo Wales, discussed a year ago in this talk page, so if you read that, there is not much new, i.e. once again "major administrator abuse, far-right bias and historical revisionism going on there, owing largely to a handful of admins".
No folks, I don't give up. ;-) GregorB (talk) 19:49, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
- So from what I could gather, there is still nothing being done about it? You would think something would have been done by now. --Jesuislafete (talk) 19:24, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
- I have yet to write a new Meta-Wiki RfC focused on the evidence from the article. Some of the discussion has already taken place at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Administrator_abuse_on_the_Croatian_Wikipedia.
- There is still possibility - however hard it may be to comprehend - that nothing at all will be done. RfCs can be ignored, and have been ignored before, it is not really a formal process. GregorB (talk) 10:39, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
- I hope something happens. Let us know if any progresses (or regresses!)
- ...and the new RfC is here: Requests for comment/Site-wide administrator abuse and WP:PILLARS violations on the Croatian Wikipedia. GregorB (talk) 09:44, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
- One more thing I'd like to share with you. One editor, DraconicDark, has just recently received an indefinite block for his first hrwiki edit. The edit is here, and the rationale for the block is here.
- No further comment is necessary, but I simply have to say that, although I've been editing for almost 15 years now, this has to be the craziest thing I've ever seen. GregorB (talk) 18:35, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
- I must say, kudos to you for putting it all together. I know it must be frustrating when you're in the right but everyone around you seems to be in a state of ridiculousness. --Jesuislafete (talk) 02:21, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.
We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Croatian literature
Greetings! I'd appreciate a review for the Croatian literature article which I've just completed with the final section on post second world war, and added some references. It's currently at C article status, and I'm hoping it may qualify now for B. Thanks! Farscot (talk) 12:56, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
I will appreciate your feedback on the talk page of the article
Geographical question
Hi - I don't know how active the project is, but I figured here was a good place to start. I'm working on SMS Szigetvár, an Austro-Hungarian cruiser from the 1890s, and a source mentions the ship stopping in a "Luka, Grossa" - I've determined that there was a Grossa Island, which is presumably what the source means, but I can't find what the current name of the island is (the only google hits I'm getting are old references). Can anyone point me to the right entry at Luka so I can link it? Thanks. Parsecboy (talk) 19:01, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
- Hello! After a brief research, it seems to me that "Grossa" is ) 21:53, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Noble houses?
This is unsourced. A cursory Google found very little information - although there could be alternate spellings involved. Looking for just the name, minus "house of", showed me several 19th-century books which have been scanned into Google but not OCR'd, so I can't paste anything into Google Translate - I'd have to be able to read Croatian. Which I can't.
Can anyone find confirmation that the article is legit (or, alternately, proof that it's not) ? Thanks. DS (talk) 20:27, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
- The Kostanjić are listed in the talk) 22:17, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
Category:Demographics of the Western Balkans has been nominated for discussion
Category:Demographics of the Western Balkans has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 14:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello Croatia! There is an ambiguous link on the article for Emilija Kokić that has us stumped. In the table is supposed to list the chart rankings of some of her recordings, there is a heading DLM. Normally I would expect this to represent a country or autonomous entity of some sort (look at the other headings in the same table) but I and at least a few other people don't know what "DLM" might represent. Can you? Regards, PKT(alk) 18:56, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
- Hello PKT! I know the feeling, I did some work on link disambiguation back in the day and sometimes it's as if one is cracking a code.
- My guess would be that DLM stands for Dalmatia. I'm not aware of a Dalmatian top list, though. It may refer specifically to Radio Dalmacija, which publishes the "Croatian Top 33 list". At any rate, since sub-national top lists aren't really the norm in discography sections, and since it is entirely unsourced, there is unfortunately little gain in disambiguating the header, and the list itself may not be salvageable. GregorB (talk) 19:34, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Croatian Counties' Titles
Is there any particular reason why there is no standardized way for naming regions which are part of Croatian counties' names? In some of them English version is used, in some of them the local one. In case of Vukovar-Srijem and Osijek-Baranja County the name was changed so that Syrmia is turned into Srijem (and differentiated from Serbian synonimus Srem- see conversation) and Baranja is used instead of Baranya yet other counties do not use local names. If the same logic is applied shouldn't there also be Split-Dalmatia> Split-Dalmacija, Požega-Slavonia> Požega-Slavonija and Istria> Istra County? Opposite logic also seems reasonable except if there is good enough reason to keep everything as it is?--MirkoS18 (talk) 11:50, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- That's a good point. To make matters worse, some English-language sources, namely Croatian Bureau of Statistics, use yet another variant, e.g. County of Vukovar-Sirmium.[4] GregorB (talk) 13:24, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- My first guess was that the Bureau's variant is translation of a less common inverted Croatian version (e.g. Županija Primorsko-goranska instead of Primorsko-goranska županija) but it seems that they use more common name and translate it in this way. As for particular word of Syrmium or Sirmium both are borrowed directly from Latin. Slightly different spellings of less common Latin (or Romance) names (more or less close to the Latin original) seems not to be very uncommon (see: Occitanie, Abruzzo, Marche, Livorno, Marseille, Dauphiné...). The fact that there is alternative spelling does not necessarily disqualify either one of them, especially since the term Srijem with letter J (pronounced differently in English and Slavic languages) may be unintelligible. Otherwise we may just use Croatian version in all cases which is also not uncommon practice on English Wikipedia.--MirkoS18 (talk) 19:23, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- At any rate it doesn't really make sense to name geographical areas one way in county names and some other way in standalone articles, which is currently the case. GregorB (talk) 21:12, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- I just created proposals on the talk-pages of both counties (Vukovar-Srijem and Osijek-Baranja) as it may be smart to leave it there for a couple of days for editors to comment just in case anyone is interested.--MirkoS18 (talk) 07:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
- At any rate it doesn't really make sense to name geographical areas one way in county names and some other way in standalone articles, which is currently the case. GregorB (talk) 21:12, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- My first guess was that the Bureau's variant is translation of a less common inverted Croatian version (e.g. Županija Primorsko-goranska instead of Primorsko-goranska županija) but it seems that they use more common name and translate it in this way. As for particular word of Syrmium or Sirmium both are borrowed directly from Latin. Slightly different spellings of less common Latin (or Romance) names (more or less close to the Latin original) seems not to be very uncommon (see: Occitanie, Abruzzo, Marche, Livorno, Marseille, Dauphiné...). The fact that there is alternative spelling does not necessarily disqualify either one of them, especially since the term Srijem with letter J (pronounced differently in English and Slavic languages) may be unintelligible. Otherwise we may just use Croatian version in all cases which is also not uncommon practice on English Wikipedia.--MirkoS18 (talk) 19:23, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Make WikiProject Ottoman Empire a task force of Wikipedia:WikiProject Former countries?
Dear users of this WikiProject:
At Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Former_countries#Make_WikiProject_Ottoman_Empire_a_task_force_of_Wikipedia:WikiProject_Former_countries? I have left a proposal to convert Wikipedia:WikiProject Ottoman Empire into a task force of Wikipedia:WikiProject Former countries. I asked this project (as all or parts of this country was/were formerly in the Ottoman Empire) and several other projects to get further feedback. Please let me know if you have questions, comments, or objections.
Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 02:13, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Slavko Kopač
- Hoary, thank you for dropping a note here. I agree fully with your assessment. I've added the draft to my watchlist. I might have a go at it, although I suppose my only edge over you is the ability to read Croatian. :-) It's a big one too, so if anyone wants to join, please do. GregorB (talk) 12:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- GregorB, thank you. That cheered me so much, I worked on the introduction. -- Hoary (talk) 12:31, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
This draft was declined for a reason that doesn't really make sense. I think it probably could be an article, but I hate accepting thinly sourced articles about massacres in the area of ethno-national disputes without being able to read good sources myself. Thoughts? Should this be accepted? Is this legitimate? All potential sources seem to be in languages I don't speak. Thanks, Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:49, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Need a native speaker for verifiability
We have a little discussion at Talk:Our Lady of Medjugorje... or rather a dispute. One user needs a confrimation that I'm not misusing Croatian sources. So, is there anyone available to check them? Thanks. --Governor Sheng (talk) 01:44, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Talk:Our Lady of Medjugorje
Please help by joining the discussion at Talk:Our Lady of Medjugorje. --Governor Sheng (talk) 16:45, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Statistical Yearbook on mountains
Moved to Talk:List of mountains in Croatia#Statistical Yearbook on mountains. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:54, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
First women MP(s) in Croatia
Hello. I'm compiling a list of the first women MPs in each country, but have been unable to find the answer for Croatia. I'm guessing they would have been elected in the
- @Number 57: I have this information from undergraduate thesis: "Prvi puta je žena ušla u parlament 1946. godine kad je izabrano 170 zastupnika i 6 zastupnica...The woman first entered parliament in 1946 when 170 male members and 6 female members were elected". (page 18 [5]) Also I know for two female members from this source: (doctoral thesis, page 169, "Odbor za molbe i žalbe. Ustrojen je na sjednici Predsjedništva 8. rujna 1945. te su imenovana četiri njegova člana: Nikola Brozina, Maca Gržetić, Kata Pejnović i Stanko Škare.. Appeals Board. It was formed at the session of the Presidency on September 8, 1945, and four of its members were appointed: Nikola Brozina, Maca Gržetić, Kata Pejnović and Stanko Škare". [6]) Kata Pejnović [[7]] and Marija Gržetić [[8]] Mikola22 (talk) 17:52, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Mikola22: Thanks! It looks like these women were elected in the first election to the parliament of SR Croatia? Of the 12 women elected to the federal Yugoslavian parliament in 1945, do you know if any were from Croatia? As the election was the year before, this would make them the first female Croatian legislators (at some level). Cheers, Number 57 18:21, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Number 57: According to these sources, in Croatia (1946) was 6 women part of Croatian parlament. These two women which I mentioned above were in that parliament (parliament of SR Croatia) and they are surely first female Croatian legislators. Second source mentioned some other women names but I don't know if they are parliamentarians. As for 12 women elected to the federal Yugoslavian parliament in 1945 I would not know. But I can see what the sources speak, if I find something. Mikola22 (talk) 19:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Number 57: I found a quality source for Kata Pejnović (page 72, Members of the presidency of Parliament) and Maca Gržetić (page 73, Members of the the constituent(in connection with the constitution) of Parliament) [9] I find and all women names and litle diferent information: "Kakva je bila zastupljenost žena u Saboru? Na izborima za Ustavotvorni sabor bilo je kandidirano 18 žena. Od toga, izabrano je njih 7. To su bile Anka Berus, Mileva Cetušić, Cvita Gilić, Maca Gržetić, Milka Kufrin, Ana Mrkoci (Brlečić) i Kata Pejnović. Na dopunskim izborima 1947., izabrana je Dina Zlatić, ujedno jedina kandidatkinja na tim izborima. Prema tome, u prvom sazivu Sabora od 191 zastupnika bilo je svega 8 žena...What was the representation of women in Parliament? 18 women ran in the elections for the Constituent Assembly(parlament). Out of that, 7 of them were chosen. They were Anka Berus, Mileva Cetušić, Cvita Gilić, Maca Gržetić, Milka Kufrin, Ana Mrkoci (Brlečić) and Kata Pejnović. In the additional elections of 1947, Dina Zlatić was elected, the only candidate in those elections. Therefore, in the first convocation of the Parliament, out of 191 members, there were only 8 women". (doctoral thesis, page 253, [10]) Also I have this source [11] page 269, for Yugoslavia. Tomorrow I will look information for the Yugoslav parliament(women from Croatia). Mikola22 (talk) 21:50, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Number 57: According to these sources, in Croatia (1946) was 6 women part of Croatian parlament. These two women which I mentioned above were in that parliament (parliament of SR Croatia) and they are surely first female Croatian legislators. Second source mentioned some other women names but I don't know if they are parliamentarians. As for 12 women elected to the federal Yugoslavian parliament in 1945 I would not know. But I can see what the sources speak, if I find something. Mikola22 (talk) 19:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Mikola22: Thanks! It looks like these women were elected in the first election to the parliament of SR Croatia? Of the 12 women elected to the federal Yugoslavian parliament in 1945, do you know if any were from Croatia? As the election was the year before, this would make them the first female Croatian legislators (at some level). Cheers, Number 57 18:21, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Use of the label "fascist"
Hello, with regard to this persistent IP edit is there any consensus or position on whether "
) 04:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)- Thanks Doremo. There seems to be a distinct recent pattern of editing of Croatia-related articles, and these IP edits are not far from it. In isolation, some of these edits may appear legitimate but - repeated dozens of times, pursuing a single agenda, and coupled with an apparent disinterest in the article topic itself - these may constitute tendentious editing. GregorB (talk) 08:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Civil Society and Human Rights in Croatia
Hi All! Few of us with different backgrounds are gathering around the topic of Civil Society and Human Rights in Croatia. If there is anyone interested to focus on this or support please reach out directly. First event is planned in collaboration with Human Rights Film Festival in Zagreb. - Zblace (talk) 08:57, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
*Sigh*
user:Coxal Xhamichi has been participating in hoaxes about Croatian entertainers, and I'll need some help from native .hr-speakers to examine all their edits to genuine articles to make sure that all the lies have been removed. Many times, CX cited sources which do not say anything remotely like what CX claimed; other times, though, it's harder for me to tell. Thanks. DS (talk) 06:25, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks DragonflySixtyseven! Before taking a closer look at his editing history, I wasn't quite aware of the severity of the problem. For example, look at this edit - while it may appear legitimate, none of the statements are actually supported by any of the supplied inline refs, and at least some of them - if not all, in this particular example - are bogus. We're talking about 3,000+ edits (many of them minor and obviously legitimate, though) that need to be examined. GregorB (talk) 12:14, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Batch | Status |
---|---|
Batch 1 | Pending |
Batch 2 | Pending |
Batch 3 | Pending |
Batch 4 | Pending |
Batch 5 | Pending |
Batch 6 | Pending |
Batch 7 | Pending |
Okay folks, I've divided his edits into 7 batches shown in the table above. If you'd like to help:
- Pick one batch and update the status to {{Checking}} ~~~~.
- Check the edits. Look for the pattern described in the previous paragraph, i.e. the insertion of statements not supported by inline refs. Edits like these should generally be undone - be cautious, and use your own judgement.
- When you're done with the batch, update its status to {{Done}} ~~~~.
If in doubt about anything, here is a good place to ask. I'll chip in myself, time permitting. GregorB (talk) 20:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- I just corrected one of his two bio pages made on https://simple.wikipedia.org/ ...other is non-problematic copy from EN. Zblace (talk) 09:03, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Global ban notification
Not strictly related to this project, but might be of interest: there is now a Meta RfC proposing a global ban for Kubura. You can discuss it here: Requests for comment/Global ban for Kubura. GregorB (talk) 22:00, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- The RfC resulted in a global ban for Kubura, enacted yesterday. GregorB (talk) 11:04, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
- Great job; thank you for your tireless work! --Jesuislafete (talk) 01:50, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, well done GregorB. This sort of thing can be a difficult and thankless task, but it's a very important one. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:07, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Pannonia, Duchy and Lower
Could someone who knows Croatian history please try to clear up the situation at Talk:Duchy of Pannonian Croatia - Like, was this a real thing or a legend, is it the same as Lower Pannonia? Thanks, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 07:26, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
Possible copyvio - help needed
Hi all! I've been tinkering with the caption of File:Đurašković brkić jovanović olblna perović albahari cović knežević 6. kongres KPJ ZG.png and I just noticed the PD tag in the commons which makes no sense to me. I'm not sure from reading the tag if the photo became PD in 2002 or if it is stil non-free (until November 2022 - the photo was taken in early November 1952 in Zagreb and published in a book in Sarajevo at the latest in 1976). Could someone please point me to the correct answer or at least the place to ask this question. Cheers.--Tomobe03 (talk) 14:18, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
- @) 15:45, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Can SIMPLE Wikipedia do better
Maybe interesting topic to reflect Decentering American Bias via SIMPLE Wikipedia? https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability#Simple_Wikipedia_notability_as_more_trans-national/regional Zblace (talk) 12:58, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
CEE Spring 2021 translations with problematic Croatian list
I am not sure if everyone is aware of Wikimedia CEE Spring translation competition, but I have been looking at it since last year. It seems to me that Croatian list is super biased to traditionalism, football and over-representation of catholicism and men. It is a pity that even articles from last year that recived no or very few new translations stay on the list for recommended articles to translate in 2021, sometimes even without being good enough articles. I tried to add more women and remove some of the obviously missfiting articles. Please join into this effort or at least leave your comment on how you see the list here. --Zblace (talk) 12:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Gaži DAB ideas
Hi all! I planned on creating a bio stub on Franjo Gaži only to discover that there are two of them. Both are politicians, both were HSS members, and seem personally unrelated ([12] and [13]). I'm willing to create two stubs and a dab page and I read the WP:DAB (well, reasonably thoroughly - skipping parts which seem unrelated to people DAB issues), but I'm still unsure what would be the article titles for the pair. The father/son qualifier applied to Hebrang articles does not seem to apply, RAF officer/producer example given in WP:NOPRIMARY is not helpful because both are HSS politicians... Any ideas? --Tomobe03 (talk) 12:11, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Upon further reflection, could Franjo Gaži (elder) and Franjo Gaži (younger) work?--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:34, 7 March 2021 (UTC) ... or maybe (per WP:ONEOTHER since the elder one appears to be the primary topic) to have Franjo Gaži and a hatnote there to Franjo Gaži (diplomat) (or another disambiguating term) and no DAB page?--Tomobe03 (talk) 14:17, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- Per WP:NCPDAB, perhaps Franjo Gaži (politician, born 1900) and Franjo Gaži (politician, born 1912)? Tezwoo (talk) 21:37, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
News from Croatian Wikipedia
Following a local vote, as of today SpeedyGonsales, Zeljko and Roberta F. are no longer administrators. This will also conclude the Meta RfC. My overview of the current hrwiki situation is here.
The long, sordid saga of Croatian Wikipedia is therefore now over. GregorB (talk) 09:47, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Indeed. While the current developments really inspire hope, it'll take years and years to undo the damage, and it's not just grossly biased stuff. The entire project got neglected over the years, and rehauling the standards is sometimes more difficult than rehauling the content. GregorB (talk) 20:59, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for dealing with all that weird crap for so many years. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:34, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- ...Roberta F. is still admin of Wictionary and Wikisource in Croatian language...so I would think they will remain somewhat and somehow active, but it is improvement even just to deflate their authority. As 1/3 people still voted for them, I would say this is still not over all together, but it is hopefully becoming less of a problem. I am sure there will be trolling for a while. -- Zblace (talk) 13:19, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
- For those of you interested in more details, here is a new and very well-informed article: "Početak kraja Endehapedije" (disclaimer: I was not involved with the article or its author in any way). GregorB (talk) 10:13, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
New theatre article for assessment
Hi all, I've created a new
*Sigh* part II
A propos this topic, let me restore the cleanup table:
Batch | Status |
---|---|
Batch 1 | Pending |
Batch 2 | Pending |
Batch 3 | Pending |
Batch 4 | Checking... --Jesuislafete (talk) 01:12, 27 March 2021 (UTC) |
Batch 5 | Pending |
Batch 6 | Pending |
Batch 7 | Checking... GregorB (talk) 22:04, 17 March 2021 (UTC) |
I really got badly sidetracked (nothing new there), but now I'm going to at least start reviewing these. You're welcome to join, of course. GregorB (talk) 09:50, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
- GregorB DragonflySixtyseven Guerillero I see a checkuser block on this "Coxal Xhamichi" account, but other than {{checkuserblock-account}} there is no explanation of whether it's a sockpuppet or a sockpuppeteer, any idea what's up there? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 13:56, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
- No idea on sockpuppeting.
- I'm doing my first batch and the M.O. indeed seems to be inserting various statements with inline refs, only they don't support the statement at all. Mostly the statements were actually correct, but some appear to be completely bogus. GregorB (talk) 21:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
PD-Croatia template at the Commons
Hi all! I have posted a notice at the commons:Template talk:PD-Croatia, but the same also applies to {{PD-Croatia}} here - although the PD-Croatia at the en-wiki is even more obsolete as it lacks the provision on the 25-year period applicable to lawfully published photos. Anyway, I thought the bulk of the interested editors would be at the WP:CRO anyway, so...
The template displays several dates purported in the notice to be the dates when specific works become PD. Now, the actual dates are not specified in the applicable legislation - instead periods required to expire after publication of a particular type of work are set. Such periods always start (as noted in the Copyright Act) on 1 January of the year following the date of expiry of the actual 70- or 25-year period following publication of the particular work. Because of this the PD notices are inaccurate. I have proposed an automated solution at the commons template talk page, so I'd appreciate any feedback there.
Furthermore, the reference to the legislation made in both templates (here and at the commons) is obsolete and should be updated (new act has come in effect and was amended half-dozen times since. I have also proposed a particular wording for this at the commons template talk too, so I'm looking for feedback on that too. Cheers!--Tomobe03 (talk) 15:24, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Following further research for the purposes of an ongoing ACR, I can say I was wrong, but... The PD-Croatia tag is still partially outdated, but that concern is (for now) academic. Nontheless, I thought to spare others who might need to address image licensing issues the need to investigate. So, here's the (almost) full story:
Specifically, in addition to the three possible criteria under which material could have become PD in Croatia, the PD-Croatia template lacks two other criteria based on recent legislation. (The earlier criteria still apply regardless of the amended legislation.) First, the dates under criteria a) and b) are 1 Jan 1949, but as of 1 January 2021, works of authors who died in 1950 and anonymous works published in 1950 are also PD in Croatia because the 70-year copyright period has expired. Of course, the next 1 January, this will mean 1951 and so forth.
Second, phonographs have 50-year copyright period under current legislation which means such works of authors who died in 1970 are PD in Croatia since the beginning of this year. As above, this is also a moving target.
However, being PD in Croatia does not make a work automatically suitable for the Commons since the United States have extended the copyright period to 95 years on specific dates for specific countries. For Croatia (and all other Yugoslavia successors) that's 1 January 1996. This means that any work which was copyrighted in the source country (e.g. in Croatia) on 1 January 1996 received the US copyright period of 95 years. If the copyright expires in Croatia later (e.g. after the 70-year period is up), the US copyright still applies. However, if the work was not copyrighted in Croatia on 1 January 1996, the US extension of the copyright does not apply and the work is suitable for the Commons.--Tomobe03 (talk) 19:25, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Which language?
Hi - any natives here?! -> "Nauk krstjanski i druge stvari za znati potrebite"
Which Language Code is this? BS ? SR ? Or crotia? Google Translate tells me it is croatian...
Sourcing an image
Hi all! I have already asked this at hr.wiki teahouse, but thought to ask here also: I'm trying to find the source of first publication of the this image [14]. I suspect it might have been first published in a book issued by Vjesnik in 1970 on the 10th session of the SKH central committee. Unfortunately, the book is not available online. It is though available in a couple of libraries in Zagreb per this [15]. If any Zagreb-based wikipedian finds themselves in one of those, I'd be very grateful for a quick look if the image is actually published there if it is attributed or published anonymously. The catalog says the book is illustrated, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Incidentally, all photos published there without photographer attribution are PD in Croatia and the US and thus fit for Commons. Cheers--Tomobe03 (talk) 16:22, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Category:Croatia articles needing expert attention has been nominated for discussion
Category:Croatia articles needing expert attention has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Peaceray (talk) 17:42, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
New list-articles
Hello there, I was recently invited to join the project, and I'm very happy with the invitation! I take this opportunity to ask your advice on this matter: I recently created a list article similar to this about Karlovac County, and I was going to create maybe another few ones like those for a couple more (small) regions. Then I realized that I don't have the time to do that for every region, so I don't know if it's worth it. So I wanted to ask you this, is it worth publishing it? There are probably a thousand articles more urgent to create, but the thing is that I was almost done with the list. Thanks.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 22:32, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
- Edit.I published the lists, here is Bjelovar and here is Karlovac. Hopefully someday someone will publish the lists for the other counties.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 18:02, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, Haldir Marchwarden. The list looks fine; I don't know if you've gotten into categories yet, but if not you might also be interested in Categories, like Category:Croatian people and its subcategories. Welcome to Wikipedia! HLHJ (talk) 16:05, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
The international numbered-node cycle network reportedly extends to Croatia. Unfortunately the article on the network contains no more info than that, and there are no images of Croatia in Commons:Category:Cycle node networks. Can anyone help, with article content, photos, or sources? Thanks! HLHJ (talk) 16:10, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Lighter relief map for Module:Location map/data/Croatia
Wouldn't it make more sense to use File:Croatia relief map.png as the relief map as opposed to File:Relief map of Croatia.png? Changing the map to the lighter version would make it the same as the majority of other relief maps used for other locations. Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 06:21, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that the choice of maps to use should be dictated by choices made elsewhere. However, I find the proposed replacement easier to read in terms of hypsographic information. It is possible that such background would be cluttering, but for such cases there is the blank map. All in all, I like the proposed map better regardless of use elsewhere.--Tomobe03 (talk) 08:06, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
10 years later
Ten years has passed since
- Cheers to all! --Jesuislafete (talk) 22:05, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
Request for Zagreb-based Wikipedians
Hi! If any Zagreb-based editor happens to be visiting the library at Starčevićev trg or the one at the Trg Petra Krešimira IV, I have a favour to ask - specifically if they could leaf through a 110-page book available at the two places for any photos published in the book. Cheers.--Tomobe03 (talk) 19:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- Can you point us to the specific book at kgz.hr? That way the trip can be shorter if one can call the librarians to make sure it's not in storage. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:04, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- Sure. It is Deseta sjednica Centralnog komiteta Saveza komunista Hrvatske : (prema autoriziranim tekstovima magnetofonskog zapisnika) / uredili Milovan Baletić, Zdravko Židovec [16]. Any photos published there are PD according to applicable Croatian and US laws and I suspect there might be some to be found (possibly the one used at the top of this JL article [17]). I have access to an earlier similar publication on ZAVNOH and it has about a dozen photos, so I expect that might be the case here too.--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:12, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
Croatian Spring at FAC
Hello all! There is a FAC at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Croatian Spring/archive1 I have recently nominated. Since the article is within the scope of this WikiProject, I thought to post here to attract more interest from editors who might post comments at the review page. Cheers --Tomobe03 (talk) 23:05, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Michael of Zahumlje GAR
Michael of Zahumlje has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:09, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
Name problem with a Croatian populated place
please see Talk:Župa dubrovačka--Estopedist1 (talk) 14:42, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
Peer review requested
I would highly appreciate all comments at Wikipedia:Peer review/Kingdom of Hungary (1000–1301)/archive3. Borsoka (talk) 03:00, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
2021 Census first results
Will there be any coordinated update on the first results of the 2021 census or we should just do it partially per interest (which may leave some gaps)? I already noticed some updates (for example Osijek where the reference was not updated). I don't know if we should wait for the final results, but what is now partially published does seem to me to constitute the final results for the given data category (total population).--MirkoS18 (talk) 11:27, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
- We should first create {{Croatian Census 2021}} just like we have {{Croatian Census 2011}}. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:29, 14 January 2022 (UTC)