User talk:Paine Ellsworth/Archive 22

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Take care

I'm sorry to see you go, and I wish you the best in whatever you do. I will miss seeing you around. You've been a great help to me along the way. I hope you may be able to return some day. If you need anything, feel free to shoot me an email. BilCat (talk) 23:46, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you,
ed. put'r there
 09:33, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
You're most welcome, and same to you and yours. I certainly understand if you never feel like returning. I've retired from Wikipedia at least three times, with no intention of returning. But I eventually did each time. Part of it depends on if one is able to find a hobby as fulfilling (or addictive) as Wikipedia, and I never did. I totally understand either way. In my 15 years on Wikipedia, I've seen many very good editors leave because of bad personal experiences, and most never returned. Perhaps someday the Foundation will put as much effort into retention of its experienced users as it does new user recruitment, but I doubt it ever will. BilCat (talk) 09:44, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Keep well

Dear colleague,
I've just seen the above banner and wanted to send you my best wishes. It's good to take an indefinite break sometimes, and go and do something entirely different for a while. Perhaps one day you'll remember all the good things that can happen here, especially the joyful sense of a job well done when some task or other has been completed. I hope you'll have that pleasure again before too long and, until then, please keep well and know that you'll be most welcome if/when you decide to return.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ

old-fashioned!
) 10:45, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much,
ed. put'r there
 20:24, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Didn't see until now -- also sending my best wishes to you. I appreciate all the work you've done around here and hope you'll be back at some point. Elli (talk | contribs) 16:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Thank you so much,
ed. put'r there
 18:48, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Walking on eggshells

Hi Paine. I'm posting here to point out something at the risk of my post being perceived as another "personal attack", but I don't think it's a healthy editing environment to have editors afraid to point out other's mistakes.

I patrol for pages transcluding errors and endeavor to keep that "what links here" list as short as possible. Today I just noticed many new pages populating that list, such as &quot. I also observe that this isn't entirely an issue that you created as someone else recently created Template:R from HTML entity but I also see that Template:R from HTML entity/sandbox hasn't yet been created. If you want to come back to fix this, that's fine with me, otherwise I'll have to revert your recent changes to that template. Thanks, and sorry to put another damper on your fun. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

It wasn't just your edit summary, wbm1058, which btw thank you for your later kind words, it's just been a bad month generally for me in regard to personal interactions. Yours was just the straw that broke the camel's back. On this issue, I was trying to get the category to sort to the second figure (after the "&") but I've forgotten how to do that evidently, so yes, feel free to revert as it does not make a lot of difference since there are still only a few in the category.
In regard to your latest revert over at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events), not sure why you did that because my edits there corrected a common problem as described at
ed. put'r there
 18:15, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
That revert was accidental as I explained in my edit summary when I self-reverted within a minute later. After that I got out the mouse I use with my laptop. wbm1058 (talk) 21:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
I must have signed in just after you reverted me and just before you self-reverted. Okay, I went ahead and self-reverted at {{
ed. put'r there
 22:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 November 2021

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"Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect

Talk
05:33, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2021).

Administrator changes

removed A Train • Berean Hunter • Epbr123 • GermanJoe • Sanchom • Mysid

Technical news

  • Unregistered editors using the mobile website are now able to receive notices to indicate they have talk page messages. The notice looks similar to what is already present on desktop, and will be displayed on when viewing any page except mainspace and when editing any page. (T284642)
  • The limit on the number of emails a user can send per day has been made global instead of per-wiki to help prevent abuse. (T293866)

Arbitration


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:25, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Lists of angels (disambiguation)

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read

the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard

to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on

section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion
, because it is a disambiguation page which either

Under the

see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information
.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:13, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost interview

Birds are not dinosaurs

Just in case anybody's interested in my humble opinion, I don't think birds are dinosaurs any more than I think humans are the little mammals that ran beneath the feet of dinosaurs. It was compelling and satisfactory to find out that all birds had evolved from certain types of dinosaurs. Yet dinosaurs are extinct, so please let them sleep. Birds are not dinosaurs any more than you and I are monkeys!

ed. put'r there
 04:17, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Do feel free to disagree...

ed. put'r there
 00:59, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

I neither agree nor disagree, because the meaning of words like "dinosaur", "reptile", "monkey", "ape", "fish", and the like, that are now known to refer to non-monophyletic groups of organisms, is context-dependent. In ordinary language (OL) contexts, they have perfectly clear and well understood applications, based on morphology, and the phylogeny of the groups is irrelevant. In scientific language (SL) contexts, there can be a need for an ordinary language term to use to refer to the monophyletic group. So birds are not dinosaursOL, but they are dinosaursSL. Sadly, the context-dependent nature of natural language seems to be something that those who endlessly edit-war at articles like Ape refuse to accept. Peter coxhead (talk) 13:55, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you very much for that
ed. put'r there
 19:52, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Well, we are descended from those mammals. There is a common ancestor of all monkeys. All humans are descended from ancestor, too. Therefore, humans are a type of monkey. Same with birds. There is a common ancestor of all dinosaurs. All birds are descended from that ancestor. Therefore, birds are a type of dinosaur.
Language may be confusing things here. If someone said "There is a common ancestor of all mammals. All humans are descended from that ancestor. Therefore, humans are a type mammal." I don't think you'd object, because well, humans are a type of mammal.
If you want to make a grouping of animals that includes what we generally consider monkeys, but not humans, you can do it, but it doesn't have a strong scientific basis. Same with dinosaurs and birds. Elli (talk | contribs) 21:07, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
To editor
ed. put'r there
 03:09, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Reasonable. Your definition of "dinosaur" doesn't have to include birds -- it just means you don't consider dinosaurs to be a phylogenetic grouping. Indeed, most non-scientists probably share a similar opinion, and depending on context it probably is more useful. Elli (talk | contribs) 03:11, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Your "mammal" line of thought did help, though. Even though it describes a "class" of vertebrates, I think of it as a widely encompassing term, much like "reptile". Marsupials are a specialty type of mammal, dinos are a specialty type of reptile. Then there are the birds, which are neither mammalian nor reptilian. Birds are too different from them to be classed as either, and I can see where some have become very fascinated by them and have studied them so closely. There's really nothing else like them in our present world.
ed. put'r there
 03:27, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Yep. Reptiles are not a phylogenetic group either, since it includes dinosaurs but not birds (and for that matter, since it doesn't include mammals), but that doesn't mean it isn't useful. Reptile § Phylogenetics and modern definition has some good info on this. And yes, birds are absolutely fascinating. I'm only sad that I no longer live in the age of the passenger pigeon, sigh... Elli (talk | contribs) 03:33, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Became more interested in birds while reading
ed. put'r there
 04:11, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
If you want to make a grouping of animals that includes what we generally consider monkeys, but not humans, you can do it, but it doesn't have a strong scientific basis. Well, the great majority of biologists (but definitely not all) do indeed currently take the view that classifications should only involve monophyletic groups, i.e. clades. They didn't always take this view, and a few resisters continue to argue against it. But it is a choice – a consensus choice, certainly, but still a choice. Classification should reflect objective facts about organisms, but always has a subjective element in deciding which objective facts count as criteria to be used in dividing up organisms into groups (taxa). Evolutionary history (phylogeny) is currently considered more important than morphology or way of life. Will this always be the case? Who knows. There are fashions in biology as in all human activities. So I would prefer to say if you want to make a grouping of animals that includes what we generally consider monkeys, but not humans, you can do it, but it doesn't have a strong basis in the current consensus on how to construct scientific classifications. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:21, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Are birds and dinosaurs and humans and monkeys all fish,then? Hyperbolick (talk) 10:10, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
@Hyperbolick: that's the problem with trying to use vernacular terms for phylogenetically defined taxa. There's a clade that has been called Osteichthyes that includes tetrapods, and so birds and dinosaurs and humans and monkeys (see e.g. the cladogram at Osteichthyes#Phylogeny). So it's correct to say that birds and dinosaurs and humans and monkeys, in both the ordinary language and the scientific language senses of these terms, belong to the Osteichthyes. If you decide use "bony fishes" to mean the clade (C) rather than the paraphyletic group (PG), then birds and dinosaurs and humans and monkeys are bony fishesC although not bony fishesPG or bony fishesOL. Without the subscripts or equivalent prior definitions, the question isn't sufficiently clear to be answered. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:04, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
ed. put'r there
 02:19, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
Fair point on phrasing. Elli (talk | contribs) 10:28, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 December 2021

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

RFA 2021 Completed

The 2021 re-examination of RFA has been completed. 23 (plus 2 variants)

ideas were proposed. Over 200 editors participated in this final phase. Three changes gained consensus and two proposals were identified by the closers as having the potential to gain consensus with some further discussion and iteration. Thanks to all who helped to close the discussion, and in particular Primefac, Lee Vilenski, and Ymblanter for closing the most difficult conversations and for TonyBallioni
for closing the review of one of the closes.

The following proposals gained consensus and have all been implemented:

  1. Revision of standard question 1 to Why are you interested in becoming an administrator? Special thanks to xaosflux for help with implementation.
  2. A new process,
    move review
    . Thanks to all the editors who contributed (and are continuing to contribute) to the discussion of how to implement this proposal.
  3. Removal of
    autopatrol from the administrator's toolkit. Special thanks to Wugapodes and Seddon
    for their help with implementation.

The following proposals were identified by the closers as having the potential to gain consensus with some further discussion and iteration:

  1. An option for people to run for temporary adminship (proposal, discussion, & close)
  2. An optional election process (proposal & discussion and close review & re-close)

Editors who wish to discuss these ideas or other ideas on how to try to address any of the six issues identified during phase 1 for which no proposal gained are encouraged to do so at

village pump
.

A final and huge thanks all those who participated in this effort to improve our RFA process over the last 4 months.

This is the final update with no further talk page messages planned.

01:46, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Closing Move Review Without Consensus

Hello Paine,

I was wondering why you closed the discussion on South African name changes when admins in the discussion advised to keep it open. There was no consensus reached and I was explicitly told by other admin to post that there. It's extremely frustrating to follow the rules and still get told I'm breaking them. Why was that discussion inappropriate? Do you disagree with the other admins? Unless I am misreading it, you did not even tell me where I should go. I haev posted on the Project page. This is where I was told to go. Where do I go now? Where do I post it? I have exhausted literally almost every other avenue. If you're going to close the page and tell me to leave, please tell me where I should post this or where I should go. Again, it seems like this decision contradicts what other admins were saying in the discussion thread. Desertambition (talk) 04:32, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Hello Desert,
I do sense your frustration and am not immune to it. Move review exists to examine the closures of specific move requests. Move review is not the correct venue for the type of discussion you opened there. If you will be kind enough to reread my closure of the discussion, you will see that I specified three venues for that type of discussion. They are:
  1. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject South Africa
  2. Wikipedia:South Africa Wikipedians' notice board
  3. Wikipedia:South African wikipedians' notice board
The numbers above represent the order in which that discussion should be opened, that is, first at the WikiProject talk page, then, if necessary, at the South Africa notice board and then, if necessary, at the South African notice board. Those should be opened one-at-a-time, and a new one should only be opened if a previous one is either closed or goes unattended. I did not see this page-title issue discussed yet at any of those pages. If I missed a discussion, then please forgive me and point it out specifically, so I can go to it and perhaps express an opinion. Thank you for your continued patience.
ed. put'r there
 05:05, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm glad you're willing to hear me out but I have posted almost an entire page about this in WikiProject South Africa Politics Taskforce with no real discussion or consensus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_South_Africa/Politics_task_force#Renaming_Towns_and_Cities_on_Wikipedia

It's been there for over a month and I was specifically told by other admin to post my request there. What you're telling me is directly contradictory to what other admin have told me. It seems completely pointless to keep going through the exact same arguments again and again without any consensus. It makes absolutely no sense. It's clear that the SA Project is fairly inactive, or at least not engaging with my topic. There was clear engagement on the move review and progress was being made. Again, it directly contradicted other admins directions and advice. Desertambition (talk) 05:21, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that discussion which seemed to go nowhere. The politics task force is probably too small a venue for the discussion of city page titles. I think the main WikiProject talk page is still the best place to open a general discussion about article page titles. Truly, the only other "best places" are the talk pages of the individual cities where you can open move requests for each one. It might take some time, but if you're willing to do the work and get the job done, then persistency is your best friend!
ed. put'r there
 05:31, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Unclear request?

Just, very curious. Already ten days, I have a {{Chembox}} edit request at Category:Wikipedia template-protected edit requests (1). I see multiple requests were answered (about two a day), except this one. Since you are a regular, could you clarify a cause for this wait? Something unclear with my ER (but nobody asked...)? -DePiep (talk) 08:41, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

To tell the truth, editor
ed. put'r there
 12:02, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. Hope someone will pick it up soon, also because other, next step changes are waiting. Have a nice 21/22 Year Edit. -DePiep (talk) 12:05, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – January 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2021).

Guideline and policy news

  • Additionally, consensus for
    advanced permissions
    .

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

  • The functionaries email list (functionaries-en@lists.wikimedia.org) will no longer accept incoming emails apart from those sent by list members and WMF staff. Private concerns, apart from those requiring oversight, should be directly sent to the Arbitration Committee.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:24, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Reopening Move Request on Port Elizabeth -> Gqeberha

Hello Paine Ellsworth,

I was wondering if you would be interested in reopening the move discussion on

King William's Town. A full consensus was never reached and I believe a more thorough review of sources and arguments shows that the incorrect decision was reached. In addition, Sotherby, one of the users in opposition, was revealed to be a sockpuppet account. Desertambition (talk
) 04:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

"Gqeberha" has seen continued use by reliable sources since the discussion was closed.

Unidentified man dies after falling off a building in Gqeberha

Archbishop Tutu’s memorial service under way in Gqeberha

MAN'S BODY FOUND ON R75 IN GQEBERHA

All from different reliable sources. All from the very first three results. Not at all hard to find or obscure. Desertambition (talk) 04:23, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 10:36, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
To editor
Park3r and Suffy69
are biased in their opposition.
Park3r
for this statement:
"The reality is that South Africans of all backgrounds don’t often embrace renamings, perhaps because they are done after perfunctory consultations, and because the South Africa is increasingly anarchic and few people subscribe to government directions."
Which is transparently untrue and gives strong indication of
WP:BIAS
.
Cape Independence
.
Toddy1 argued that we shouldn't change it because it was not the common name in Britain. They did not expand on why that was relevant.
The C of E cherrypicked sources and did not elaborate when called out.
After taking that into consideration, I counted seven in support and seven in opposition. Important to note that many in opposition did not elaborate and I have never heard of manuals of style being used to determine place names. I believe I made a mistake in the way I brought up bias in the discussion and it derailed the talks. This certainly deserves another look, especially given the continued use in reliable sources. Desertambition (talk) 11:38, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
To editor Desertambition: that doesn't really address why my arguments are weak
Don't think your rationale is weak. Some editors think your args are quite strong, just not strong enough to overcome consensus yet. The more reliable sources you can muster, the harder it will be for editors to disagree with you.
You also did not address the sockpuppet account.
At the time of closing that move request, I was unaware of the SP charges; however, one editor's opinion expressed twice (if that is what happened) rarely makes a difference in the outcome. At most, the decision would be changed from "not moved" to "no consensus", and the title still would have not changed.
biased in their opposition
Charges of bias should only be made on Wikipedia when there is overwhelming evidence, so please be careful how you address the comments of other editors. Some will take you to
assume good faith
in all discussions.
I counted seven in support and seven in opposition.
Gentle reminder that the outcome is not just determined by the number of
!votes
, and even if there were 7:7, that probably would not have been a consensus to rename the article.
I have never heard of manuals of style being used to determine place names.
When it comes to titles, the
Manual of Style
mainly helps with titling formats, but not with place-name changes.
I brought up bias in the discussion and it derailed the talks. This certainly deserves another look, especially given the continued use in reliable sources.
The important thing is to learn from your mistakes. It's okay to make mistakes, just don't make the same mistake twice. Yes, this certainly does deserve another look, but not right now. My suggestion would be for you to choose a similar rename of one of the other cities, and start a requested move to garner consensus for an article renaming. Come back to Gqeberha later. And the more solid, reliable sources you can point to, the better!
ed. put'r there
 02:21, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Move Request on King William's Town

It has been over a week since the move request on

King William's Town was opened. Has there been sufficient evidence/consensus to move the article to Qonce? Desertambition (talk
) 00:45, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 04:16, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

"Cleanup templates" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Cleanup templates and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 12#Cleanup templates until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 10:40, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much,
ed. put'r there
 11:12, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
You're very welcome, happy new year to you as well! Thryduulf (talk) 11:15, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:This is a redirect/code

Template:This is a redirect/code has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 18:40, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much,
ed. put'r there
 20:32, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 January 2022

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TemplatesNeedingFairUseFixing

Ref: User:Whpq/TemplatesNeedingFairUseFixing Hi,

Thank you for carrying on making changes. I apologize for not responding sooner. I've been very busy in real life and not had a chance to work on this, and will likely only be able to sporadically check in over the next few days. The change to Template:Non-free logo is something that likely applies to every single template in Category:Wikipedia non-free file copyright templates as the ones I've looked at all have the same or similar text about rationales. If you could work through that category to apply the change, that would be tremendous. I also see that the changes are marked as pending approval. What sort of approval is needed for these changes? Thanks again. -- Whpq (talk) 20:43, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 21:28, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Well, in that case, approved! The changes you made are fine. Cheers. -- Whpq (talk) 02:35, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Update - I have been able to get back to working on this a little bit. I am working my way through the list. Not all templates have a protection level requiring a template editor. Those which I can modify (and confidently be sure I'm not screwing things up) I have changed myself and marked as done. Those which require changes to be made by a template editor have been marked as with {{ToDo}} ( ToDo ). When you have time, please review those marked for ToDo. Thanks. -- Whpq (talk) 15:12, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 08:11, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
No worries. I think we both understand well that real life intrudes. Cheers. -- Whpq (talk) 13:36, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – February 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • The user group oversight will be renamed suppress in around 3 weeks. This will not affect the name shown to users and is simply a change in the technical name of the user group. The change is being made for technical reasons. You can comment in Phabricator if you have objections.
  • The Reply Tool feature, which is a part of Discussion Tools, will be opt-out for everyone logged in or logged out starting 7 February 2022. Editors wishing to comment on this can do so in the relevant Village Pump discussion.

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:02, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:R to subpage/doc support

Template:R to subpage/doc support has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 07:06, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Premature closing of the discussion and undiscussed renaming of the Freedom Convoy 2022 page

Dear Paine Ellsworth, I noticed that you recently closed a discussion on the Freedom Convoy 2022 talk page whose object was to discuss whether or not the page should be moved to a new name. At the time of closing, there were 17 editors supporting a name change (though they did not all agree with the proposed name change) and 35 editors opposed to changing the name (either because they objected to the proposed name, or because they thought the name shouldn't be changed, roughly half and half with a slight bias towards the latter). Many of the editors who were opposed to the name change, and some who supported some name change, wanted a new discussion to be had on what the name should be changed to before it was changed, if indeed a consensus could be reached that the name should changed (some number had already moved to do so). You, however, went ahead and changed the name, despite the fact that a super-majority opposed changing the name.

I would request that you revert your move of the article and wait until there is actually a consensus on 1) whether to change the name at all and 2) what to change the name to.

Sorry to have to introduce myself through such a polemical issue. Nice to make your digital acquaintance. Yours, Joe (talk) 23:32, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for coming here,
article title policy
.
I understand your concerns and I do thank you for being civil, more than civil, about all this. Truly, if you disagree with my choice of titles, I sincerely hope you will follow OTHER OPTIONS and just open a new move request to a different title of your choice. There was a strong consensus against the old title, so any attempt to restore it would probably not succeed. But the article needs a stable title so that our readers are satisfied and helped. If the title I chose is not the stable one then so be it, and I hope we find a good, stable title very soon. Thanks again for your kind words and for coming to my talk page!
ed. put'r there
 00:38, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

I came here to comment on the same thing: I don't think there was a consensus. Agreeing to move the page somewhere does not equal to agreeing to move the page to the proposed title, and a majority of people opposed the new title (proposing a new title does not equal supporting the new title or preferring the new title to the previous one). The user Ivanvector also commented on this [a new section on the title change]. The page should be moved back until a proper consensus, or at least a majority, is reached. If not, a

WP:MR ought be requested. --CasuarioAlmeriense (talk
) 17:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you,
ed. put'r there
 22:03, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Move review for
Ottawa convoy protest

An editor has asked for a

Ottawa convoy protest
. Because you closed the move discussion for this page, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review.

Since this is an important and controversial topic, the new title does not follow

WP:COMMONNAME and most comments were against it, I asked for a move review to reach a proper consensus; I hope that, even if you do not agree, at least understand my reasoning. I appreciate your civility above and hope to discuss this in a good-spirited, thoughtful way. Sincerely, CasuarioAlmeriense (talk
) 19:23, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Indo-Aryan languages/doc

Template:Indo-Aryan languages/doc has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:55, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Old and Middle Indo-Aryan/doc

Template:Old and Middle Indo-Aryan/doc has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:01, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Ukraine

It may be of interest that WP had it right 20 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ukraine&oldid=200071

—В²C ☎ 22:25, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 22:43, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
I get that. Me too. But when did we stop adding the “the”? My point is 20 years after WP got it, we’re still talking about it. I think it was only a couple of years ago for me. —В²C ☎ 15:48, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
To editor
ed. put'r there
 16:12, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
I know (much of) that now. But I think it’s been only a couple of years for me personally. Time flies; call it five. How about you? —В²C ☎ 11:59, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
Still catch myself using the article. Old dog, new tricks? I've always thought such things were humorously trivial. That thought of course isn't shared by all, specially "the" Ukrainians. Wikipedia tries so hard to be wonderfully global. There's still a lot of global systemic bias with which to deal. One person's trivialities are another person's lifelong ambitions.
ed. put'r there
 18:51, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 February 2022

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Administrators' newsletter – March 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

Arbitration

  • 2021 Discretionary Sanctions review
    .

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:46, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

En dash

Thanks for the recent RM close. I was about to suggest you try an RM to replace the hyphen in

2021–2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis (the article was a bit too heavily edited for me to propose a change), but I see that there's a musical title which is very likely to gain consensus, and it's both hyphen and en-dash free. Boud (talk
) 00:25, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

my pleasure, Boud! Paine  03:37, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Please review this RM close

I hate to start an RM review but don’t see any choice here. Am I missing something? I would appreciate it if you could take a look and let me know.

Talk:The_In_Between_(2022_film)#Requested_move_11_February_2022. Thx. ——В²C ☎
04:28, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 22:14, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. —В²C ☎ 02:49, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
my pleasure! Paine  02:54, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Template:User WP Redirect/doc

sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Template:User WP Redirect/doc during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs
) 02:21, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

SPI report

Hi. I just want to make sure you're aware of the discussion at Template talk:SPI report#Template-protected edit request on 2 March 2022. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:43, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Please see my response there.
ed. put'r there
 01:58, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll continue this there, but just to address your initial comment, I forgive you :-)
Regarding my request to back out the change, I'm not trying to bust your chops or anything, but that's what's been drilled into me as SOP in industry. If something breaks, back it out and then you've got plenty of time to sort it out and try again when you've got a better handle on what's going on. -- RoySmith (talk) 04:43, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Houghton Hall

I believe there was consensus to keep the article at

WP:UKPLACE and pointed out the problems with using "Yorkshire" alone, the support was that its sufficient and that UKPLACE apparently doesn't apply to buildings but arguably that could point to Houghton Hall (East Riding of Yorkshire) as to my awareness places that aren't disambiguated by commas generally use the same qualifier as those that do. Otherwise there is no particular guideline for buildings so we should follow the usual format for places even if we were to put the name in brackets, see the move of Hidden Valley (Virginia) for example. Crouch, Swale (talk
) 22:29, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

So sorry,
ed. put'r there
 07:08, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
The longstanding convention is that we don't use historic counties for disambiguation or describe places etc as being "currently" in these counties per Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about counties (see the former counties part). Editors mentioned about the Yorkshire counties and the Sussex counties using just "Yorkshire" and "Sussex" as opposed to "East Sussex" or "North Yorkshire" etc but even though the historic counties are simpler they are still historic so the problem still may remain. The status of current and former counties is quite controversial in the real world and on Wikipedia (see CountyWatch) and the use "Yorkshire" or "Sussex" may raise questions as to why it hasn't been done with others such as Westmorland. I think if editors want to use "Yorkshire" and "Sussex" for some or all types of places then a RFC should be held rather than a single RM. I agree there's no need to relist as you note it had already been relisted as had been open for over a month. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:56, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Looking at the !vote count 5 favoured using the "East Riding of Yorkshire" mainly because it is against the convention and the problems ignoring the convention could cause. If we turn to the 4 supporters of "Yorkshire" alone, the 1st, the nominator did not appear to provide any reasoning for this apart from the fact the article had previously been moved which is not in its self a good reason per
WP:RMNOMIN I'd suggest there is community consensus to use the ceremonial county and if editors want to use "Yorkshire" there should be a wider discussion. Crouch, Swale (talk
) 22:34, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
It was my understanding of
ed. put'r there
 04:03, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Wallingford, Berkshire or Bolton isn't described as currently being within Lancashire etc. If you want me to file a RFC about using "Yorkshire" and "Sussex" alone if possible then I can but if there is consensus against or no consensus then Houghton Hall should be moved back. Crouch, Swale (talk
) 21:48, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for details about ceremonial vs. historic county names,
ed. put'r there
 22:45, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Probably because contributions from autoconfirmed editors are generally under less scrutiny than IPs and new users its quite easy for things to fall through the cracks. I can't think of any others though Sutton Park, North Yorkshire was fixed a few years ago. RMNOMIN says "Consensus is determined not just by considering the preferences of the participants in a given discussion, but also by evaluating their arguments, assigning due weight accordingly, and giving due consideration to the relevant consensus of the Wikipedia community in general as reflected in applicable policy, guidelines and naming conventions." but even still there was a slight majority in favour of the ceremonial county. While its true we can and do have exceptions where its not possible to use a "standard" title or there is a common sense reason to ignore the convention nothing here suggested it since the arguments would apply to all places in one of the Yorkshire or Sussex counties that is unique there. I'll start a RFC but it really should be on those who want to change the convention. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:23, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Exeter–Andover_rivalry#Requested_move_15_March_2022

Not sure if you meant you were going to re-open, restart, or what, but it's done. Primefac (talk) 12:25, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much,
ed. put'r there
 12:43, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Super-easy, barely an inconvenience. Primefac (talk) 17:25, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Jo_In-sung#Requested_move_30_January_2022

Thanks for closing this RM. Just a question, I would have thought that this would be closed as "not moved", not "no consensus". What is the rationale for a "no consensus" over a "not moved"? Natg 19 (talk) 17:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi
ed. put'r there
 19:32, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Miguel Baeza

You closed Talk:Miguel Baeza#Requested move 6 June 2021. That RM has just been relitigated at Talk:Miguel Baeza#Requested move 10 March 2022 with no advertisement to those who participated in the earlier discussion, minimal participation, and a different result. We now have this mess:

Ouch! Can I pass this to you for consideration? Narky Blert (talk) 12:03, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 19:44, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
Thank you! I'm sure the pleasure is all mine. I fortified myself against my aversion to offloading work with the thoughts that you'd seen this group before and that I know of you as something of a ONEOTHER specialist. Narky Blert (talk) 09:36, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 March 2022

  • Eyewitness Wikimedian, Vinnytsia, Ukraine: War diary
* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:51, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Apologies for Port Elizabeth listing

Hello Paine Ellsworth, I didn't realize you put a time limit on the

WP:COMMONNAME and that one year is unnecessarily long. Desertambition (talk
) 00:34, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 03:51, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

"Template:R from grapheme" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Template:R from grapheme and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 3#Template:R from grapheme until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. 1234qwer1234qwer4 13:40, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Closure requests

Good day Paine! Thank you for your message about {{

no admin backlog}} at Wikipedia:Closure requests. I appreciate you letting me know. However, if I try to edit the entire page at once, it will crash the browser on my mobile phone. This is the reason that I put {{admin backlog}} above one of the sections. --Jax 0677 (talk
) 14:14, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 15:56, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – April 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • Access to Special:RevisionDelete has been expanded to include users who have the deletelogentry and deletedhistory rights. This means that those in the Researcher user group and Checkusers who are not administrators can now access Special:RevisionDelete. The users able to view the special page after this change are the 3 users in the Researcher group, as there are currently no checkusers who are not already administrators. (T301928)
  • When viewing deleted revisions or diffs on Special:Undelete a back link to the undelete page for the associated page is now present. (T284114)

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:13, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (disambiguation)

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read

the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard

to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on

section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion
, because it is a disambiguation page which either

Under the

see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information
.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:14, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Baronet#Baronetesses

Regarding your recent change to Baronet, I did a search and I don't see any links to #Baronetesses. Can you give an example of a link which would be broken without this? Thanks, Dan Bloch (talk) 04:57, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 05:38, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Hi! I did an internal search, an "insource:" search for baronetesses, then scanned the small number of results to see that none of them had the word in a link. (A search for "Baronet#Baronetesses" didn't show anything, and I wanted some assurance that the search was working.) I don't know a way to search for external links, but it seems likely to me that this was an error and not a link that ever worked. Dan Bloch (talk) 06:10, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
I checked the history and I don't see any evidence that the plural link ever existed. I'm going to remove the {{anchor}}. Dan Bloch (talk) 18:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
To editor
ed. put'r there
 21:31, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

GOCE April 2022 newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors
April 2022 Newsletter

Hello and welcome to the April newsletter, a brief update of Guild activities since December 2021.

Election results: Jonesey95 retired as lead coordinator. Reidgreg was approved to fill this role after an 18-month absence from the coordinator team, and Baffle gab1978 was chosen as an assistant coordinator following a one-year break. Dhtwiki, Miniapolis and Tenryuu continued on as long-standing assistant coordinators.

requests. (details
)

February Blitz: This one-week effort focused on requests and a theme of Africa and African diaspora history. Of the 12 editors who signed up, 6 editors recorded 21 copy edits, including 4 requests. (details)

March Drive: Of the 28 editors who signed up, 18 claimed 116 copy edits including 25 requests. (details)

April Blitz: This one-week copy editing event has been scheduled for 17–23 April, sign up now!

Progress report: As of 11 April, copy editors have removed approximately 500 articles from the backlog and completed 127 copy-editing requests during 2022. The backlog has been hovering at about 1,100 tagged articles for the past six months.

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Reidgreg, Baffle gab1978, Dhtwiki, Miniapolis and Tenryuu

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

Sent via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:43, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Miguel Baeza (disambiguation)

Notice

The article Miguel Baeza (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Disambiguation page not required (

WP:ONEOTHER
). Primary topic article has a hatnote to the only other use.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be

deleted for any of several reasons
.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:50, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 16:44, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

{redirect category shell}

Paine Ellsworth, Happy New Year 2022, 2021, ...
It's good to see that you remain active here.

Quick question. Do these 2017 revisions, plural represent the intended operation of Project {redirect category shell}, pardon the expression? That is, to eliminate the information provided by |e2=* from daughter, illustrator-writer and occasional collaborator with father, to parents. That is: my assignment of parameter value; parameter of your design, as I recall, or your documentation. --P64 (talk) 23:33, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi
ed. put'r there
 16:17, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
Thanks. I might take a look at how frequently 7-10 years ago I used e1 or e2 instead of e0, as I maintained all of the Category:Redirects to joint biographies and Redirects from writers, then about 100 and 50 in number.
Seeing the 2020s work on short descriptions, and mention of the value (if not need) for SD some redirects, is what prompted me to look back.
Before doing anything (which will be slowly, too) with redirects from people, I must catch up on the current design for their interlanguage links and identifiers via Wikidata. --P64 (talk) 19:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

your Editnotice

Quick question ;--)
Can you direct me to information on design and implementation of [[./Editnotice]]? Sigh. I think you know what I mean. --P64 (talk) 23:36, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi again, actually I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking about my specific talk page edit notice or about edit notices in general?
ed. put'r there
 16:20, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
Edit notices (at EN.wiki User talk space, if it's specific) in general. Not {{tmbox}}, which I can read sometime. The part where you have User talk:Paine Ellsworth/Editnotice without the expected parent User:Paine Ellsworth/Editnotice and voila!, "Page notice"[link] and your box displayed above --for me now in Edit mode. --P64 (talk) 19:50, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
To editor
ed. put'r there
 07:09, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 April 2022

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:42, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Ghost train

Thank you for working on the RM backlog! I'm a bit surprised by the close at Talk:Ghost train#Requested move 3 April 2022. Would you mind sharing your thinking there? Thanks! – Uanfala (talk) 10:56, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 12:54, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
To editor
ed. put'r there
 16:16, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your response. No need to let that interfere with daily life, there's no deadline here:) But which numbers did you say favoured the move? – Uanfala (talk) 16:26, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
my pleasure! Well, the nomination rationale was left wanting; however the other support rationales were strong enough to, when added together, tip the scales. The survey taken as a whole left me with the impression that there was a rough consensus, by the Wikipedia definition, for the page moves.
ed. put'r there
 16:37, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
The nomination rationale was straightforward. There is a clear primary topic, what else is there to say? BD2412 T 22:38, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Nothing more really. Water under the bridge.
ed. put'r there
 11:58, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Canada_convoy_protest/Archive_4#Requested_move_5_February_2022

Why was Canada_convoy_protest moved at Talk:Canada_convoy_protest/Archive_4#Requested_move_5_February_2022 if there was no consensus to move? --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:06, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi
ed. put'r there
 17:57, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Protected template edit requests

Hey there! Thanks for handling my edit earlier. I wanted to ask, so that I don't make somebody's life a living hell - is there such a thing as too many requests to edit a template at once? I'm trying to get through the backlog of pages that call for unsupported schools on that template, and I'm coming up with a LOT of things. Is it in poor taste to drop dozens of edit requests at the same time on one template? -fuzzy510 (talk) 00:26, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Good question,
ed. put'r there
 00:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Gautama Buddha

Does "no prejudice" in your RM close mean no prejudice against immediately opening a new move request to either of the titles that received the most support? Rather than observing the typical waiting period. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 12:44, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi
ed. put'r there
 17:15, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the clarification. I should probably let it go... but I think there's a strong case for a move to "The Buddha" that could get consensus with a carefully-written nomination statement. I'll get on it. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 17:39, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
my pleasure! Paine  17:46, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
I thought the close correct and well-considered. Perhaps this isn't the correct venue, but I'm of two minds on an immediate new RM: 1) There was significant, clear and strong policy-based expressed opposition to any move, and I'll confess I oppose such a move myself, so I would think another request unsuccessful; and 2) We're already hip-deep in dung now; why not battle it out to a conclusion, so to speak. To User:Paine Ellsworth, thanks for the value you add by closing, whether we agree or not. BusterD (talk) 17:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
And again it's my pleasure,
ed. put'r there
 18:04, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
I don't want to re-litigate the RM on Paine's talk page (I have no objection to the closure), but I think the arguments of the supporters were substantially stronger policy-wise than the opposes; otherwise I wouldn't consider opening another RM in the face of such numerical opposition. I hope that with a good nomination statement I can address the main opposition points and avoid some of the rancor of the previous RM. I do think we should reach a definitive conclusion one way or the other. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 18:13, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
second thoughts... Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 18:38, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Your views are appreciated. I found the hectoring and mild bludgeoning troubling; I believe I cautioned more than one participant about language. I wish there was some way of asking participants state their case without undue side discussion or on-the-spot evaluation/discounting. I don't wish to shortcut discussion procedures, but there was a fair amount of "gaming" activity, including a sudden change of move target during the process. If I could be helpful in drafting a better RM (even one I'd oppose), I'd make myself available. BusterD (talk) 18:43, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Country data Malaya/doc

Template:Country data Malaya/doc has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:01, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you,
ed. put'r there
 11:31, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Sorry for the bad nomination. Here's a dumb technical tip: When you make a /doc page for an existing template, go back to the main template page (one level up) and do a null edit (click edit and then save without making any changes). Example: If you create Template:Foo/doc, go to Template:Foo and click Edit and Publish. That refreshes the /doc page's list of transclusions and prevents it from showing up on the report of template pages with no transclusions. The MediaWiki job queue eventually catches up and refreshes it, but that can take more than a day sometimes. It's a dumb hack workaround, but it will help avoid misunderstandings like mine. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Good tip!
ed. put'r there
 17:43, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Template:College break?

Soooooo, any guesses as to why that template is broken on every occurrence of "Duke" on the site? About 1100 pages just got dumped into the maintenance category, and I can't see why it is - I haven't touched that entry, and I don't see where there's any differences in the edits you've made that would cause that......fuzzy510 (talk) 21:11, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Also seeing it now on Florida and Florida International......fuzzy510 (talk) 21:36, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
To
ed. put'r there
 08:34, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
To
ed. put'r there
 10:08, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
To
ed. put'r there
 13:10, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Sure thing. I'll keep adding things to my running list, as well as fixing the references that don't require any edits to the template, while keeping an eye out for any other errors. Thank you for your help with this, and sincerest apologies for the sloppy edit on my part. fuzzy510 (talk) 13:27, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
I've not discovered anything that appears amiss from my sorting through the maintenance category today. Let me know when you want to take things off hold, and I've got plenty more to add......fuzzy510 (talk) 02:24, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
You see, fuzzy510, it's that "plenty more to add" phrase that gives me pause.
Technical:

The College template is run by a switch function seen at the top as

  • {{#switch:{{{1|<noinclude>¬</noinclude>}}} – just that one switch.

And switches have limitations. Just a few years ago switches could only have a maximum of 100 parameters (each parameter begins with a | (pipe symbol)). Template College now has nearly 3,000 pipe symbols, so the switch limitation has obviously been expanded. My understanding is that now switches can have from 1,000 to 2,000 pipes and still operate okay. It's mostly a matter of time – page loading time. A switch compares its first value, in this case the college name in its first parameter, with all the college names that are inside the template until it finds the same name, and then it provides a link. The comparison begins with in this case the A's, then the B's and so on. So it finds a college that begins with "C" faster than it would find one that begins with "W".

So the bottom line is how long it takes for the switch to find the college name affects how long it takes to load a page that has the College template in it, when a user loads the page. And when more colleges are added, the slower the loading gets. There are solutions to this, and I am presently checking them out and will implement one soon. Then we can get underway again. By the way, can you give me an idea about how many more is "plenty"?
ed. put'r there
 16:08, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Rough estimate? About 250 *schools* that haven't been moved over......and I haven't finished parsing through the Ms yet. It's hard to say how many of the 3,100 pages in that category haven't been touched, since the nature of how that category sorts is to sort by whatever is being called for - if there are multiple errors, and I resolve the one that is earliest in the alphabet but not all of them, it'll still pop up later.
I am admittedly not terribly knowledgeable about template back-end workings, so I don't know that I've got anything resembling constructive advice that I can give. What I can say is that I've been pretty liberal with using pipes to cover many bases for how a college could be listed - I definitely can and will be more conservative on that, and if it would do anything to cause pages to load faster, I'm happy to shift my attention to going through everything listed with a fine-tooth comb to thin things out further both from my additions and established entries.
You seem like you have a handle on things (far more than I would, certainly!), but please let me know if there's any way I can assist. -fuzzy510 (talk) 17:39, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
To editor
ed. put'r there
 19:58, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Awesome. I'll get back to it. Thanks! fuzzy510 (talk) 18:49, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:34, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Farukh - recent move

I don't claim to own the article - where are you taking this from? I am interested in the article's improvement and the improvement of Nagorno-Karabakh/Artsakh articles in general.

As I stated previously, the anglicization of "Farux" to "Farukh" was a not a point of contention or the subject of the move discussion, but it's move to its likely common name "Parukh". This article (and the majority of the Nagorno-Karabakh geographic articles for villages) had minimal content and sources (using GEOnet Names Server as the only source for the name) and there was little historical or political context present on the article for years until recently.

I think it's problematic to define "Farux" as the "long-term consensus name" for the village pointing to

WP:RMNOMIN
and moving it to that name without further inspection of the context. As I understand the guideline, moving an article back to a stable name is recommended when "a requested move is filed in response to a recent move from a long existing name that cannot be undone without administrative help", I don't believe that was the case here - the move from "Farux" to "Farukh" was not the topic of the move discussion.

I understand how a "no consensus" close can be seen as the only option when a move discussion gets as messy as that one was - what I am contesting is the rationale with regard to the guidelines in moving "Farukh" to "Farux" afterwards and the rearranging of the Azerbaijani and Armenian scripts and transliterations on the page in the way that it's been done which in my view is not an improvement with regard to the article's readability and quality. I think an anglicization of the name to "Farukh" is a clear improvement. AntonSamuel (talk) 06:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

To editor AntonSamuel: thank you very much for coming to my talk page!
I don't claim to own the article - where are you taking this from?
From your first sentence on the article's talk page: "Hey, moving the article to 'Farux' and the way you've rearranged the Azerbaijani and Armenian scripts and transliterations on the page is not an improvement of my article in my view." You said "my article" and that indicates that you think you own the article. If that's not what you meant, then in the future you might want to word that type of statement a different way.
Glad you understand that there was no consensus in the page-move discussion. Reverting back to an old title is sometimes not an improvement; however, that is what must be done if there is no consensus for either the current title or the proposed title in a move request. "Farux" was the title of the article from 2008 until this past January, and that's a long time. You are welcome to strengthen the arguments, maybe find some new arguments and try again in a few months to build consensus for a name change.
ed. put'r there
 07:04, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Well, "my article" was a clear typo - it's fixed now! Well, then I disagree with your interpretation of the guidelines - I don't intend to initiate a move discussion for the article since move discussions for localities that have been recently contested in Nagorno-Karabakh tend to be easily disrupted and then closed with no consensus as was the case here. I take it you don't intend to revert your move and move the article back to "Farukh", would you be against me taking such an initative or would you see that as a hostile and problematic revert? If so, would a move review be your recommendation if I wanted to contest your move of the article to "Farux"? AntonSamuel (talk) 07:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Glad to see that your "my article" was a typo,
ed. put'r there
 19:18, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Paine Ellsworth I thought that rough consensus was for the common name "Parukh". I also wanted to ask why it was closed as no consensus? ZaniGiovanni (talk) 19:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
To editor
ed. put'r there
 19:26, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
There is no policy prohibiting or discouraging Wikipedia from using non-anglicised (different from transliteration!) names, and in many cases, the non-anglicised name is preferred over the anglicised one, as in Gdańsk or Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. In my opinion, anglicising the name of a tiny village is not a "clear improvement". — Golden call me maybe? 09:37, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
@
Ağdam to Aghdam, so that argumentation is interesting. "Farux" isn't even the current Azerbaijani name for the village, as the Azerbaijani government now uses "Fərrux", so the current format is quite problematic on many accounts. "Farukh" or "Parukh" has been utilized widely in international and regional media lately [1]. A move back to "Farukh" would be more than appropriate in my view considering the circumstances. AntonSamuel (talk
) 10:12, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
I have indeed, but only for large cities or provinces which have an established common name in English-language media. I don't believe tiny villages which are almost never covered outside local media should have a unique English name. — Golden call me maybe? 10:20, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
@Golden: Didn't you actually add the anglicization "Farukh" on the article to begin with? [2] AntonSamuel (talk) 10:28, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Adding an anglicisation in the article and changing the article's name are two very different things. — Golden call me maybe? 18:46, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
I don't believe tiny villages which are almost never covered outside local media should have a unique English name. — so which one is it?
I agree with AntonSamuel. "Farux" is pointless when it isn't even official in Azeri or Armenian. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 19:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Move review

To editor

ed. put'r there
 00:14, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Closing a requested move at
Jimin (singer, born 1995)

I was wondering if you could close this. 52-whalien (talk) 21:50, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for coming to my talk page,
ed. put'r there
 01:15, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for informing me. I will read more about it! 52-whalien (talk) 01:34, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
my pleasure! Paine  01:36, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Panjshir conflict#Requested move 29 April 2022

i saw that you closed the requested move to move the page. but you appear to have forgotten to do so...? ああ、またか。晚安。 07:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

To editor
ed. put'r there
 07:50, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
ah, understood. ああ、またか。晚安。 07:52, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Question for administrator

It's been 12 hours since the inquiry above the Admin help box and nearly 20 hours since I listed this RM at

Talk:Panjshir conflict#Requested move 29 April 2022? (just noticed that admin Anthony Appleyard
, who often works at RMTR, hasn't edited since the 13th of February, possibly on extended holiday.)

--

ed. put'r there
 19:52, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Done. I'm not entirely convinced the consensus is crystal clear and there may be more discussion, but the move also doesn't seem controversial.  Frank  |  talk  22:28, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
To editor
ed. put'r there
 22:33, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Template: College

Hey! While there are still going to be a couple of changes that will need to be made, the vast majority of the additions to {{College}} have been made, so the couple of weeks of there always being 15 schools ready to be added should be largely over.

Thank you so much for your help in clearing those in a timely fashion, as well as fixing things on the back end when it was clear we were going to have issues with the number of calls that template made. You've made what could have been a seriously cumbersome task much easier to accomplish. -fuzzy510 (talk) 22:26, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Pleasure's all mine!  Paine  22:30, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol newsletter May 2022

New Page Review queue March 2022

Hello Paine Ellsworth,

At the time of the last newsletter (No.26, September 2021), the backlog was 'only' just over 6,000 articles. In the past six months, the backlog has reached nearly 16,000, a staggering level not seen in several years. A very small number of users had been doing the vast majority of the reviews. Due to "burn-out", we have recently lost most of this effort. Furthermore, several reviewers have been stripped of the user right for abuse of privilege and the articles they patrolled were put back in the queue.

Several discussions on the state of the process have taken place on the talk page, but there has been no action to make any changes. The project also lacks coordination since the "position" is vacant.

In the last 30 days, only 100 reviewers have made more than 8 patrols and only 50 have averaged one review a day. There are currently 819 New Page Reviewers, but about a third have not had any activity in the past month. All 860 administrators have this permission, but only about a dozen significantly contribute to NPP.

This means we have an active pool of about 450 to address the backlog. We cannot rely on a few to do most of the work as that inevitably leads to burnout. A fairly experienced reviewer can usually do a review in a few minutes. If every active reviewer would patrol just one article per day, the backlog would very quickly disappear.

If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, do suggest they help the effort by placing {{subst:NPR invite}} on their talk page.

If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
Sent 05:18, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Getting more comments

Do you have any suggestions on how we could get more constructive comments on the move proposal at Talk:OpenSearch (software)? Most of the comments so far are from editors with a handful of edits. I have tried RFC and posting on three Project pages. --Macrakis (talk) 13:02, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi
ed. put'r there
 13:57, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Yes, especially since I have a
WP:COI, I've been very careful about all that. I'm just disappointed that experienced, uninvolved editors haven't contributed to the discussion. --Macrakis (talk
) 14:29, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 May 2022

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:47, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Editing newsletter 2022 – #1

Read this in another language • Subscription list for the multilingual newsletter • Local subscription list

New editors were more successful with this new tool.

The New topic tool helps editors create new ==Sections== on discussion pages. New editors are more successful with this new tool. You can read the report. Soon, the Editing team will offer this to all editors at most WMF-hosted wikis. You can join the discussion about this tool for the English Wikipedia is at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Enabling the New Topic Tool by default. You will be able to turn it off in the tool or at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion.

The Editing team plans to change the appearance of talk pages. These are separate from the changes made by the mw:Desktop improvements project and will appear in both Vector 2010 and Vector 2022. The goal is to add some information and make discussions look visibly different from encyclopedia articles. You can see some ideas at Wikipedia talk:Talk pages project#Prototype Ready for Feedback.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

23:14, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – June 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • Administrators using the mobile web interface can now access Special:Block directly from user pages. (T307341)
  • The IP Info feature has been deployed to all wikis as a Beta Feature. Any autoconfirmed user may enable the feature using the "IP info" checkbox under Preferences → Beta features. Autoconfirmed users will be able to access basic information about an IP address that includes the country and connection method. Those with advanced privileges (admin, bureaucrat, checkuser) will have access to extra information that includes the Internet Service Provider and more specific location.

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:55, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Malaysian Malay

Hello! Thank you for your attention trying to fix some articles related to Malaysian Malay, but I noticed that you mistakenly redirected the Malaysian Malay to Malaysian Malays (about people). 'Malaysian Malay' is the official standard dialect used in Malaysia, meanwhile 'Malaysian Malays' (which actually should be named as "Malay Malaysians") is the people. If you're confuse, when it comes to languages, the language name is placed behind, but when it comes to people, the ethnicity name should be placed in front. For instance, the Chinese people articles named as

Singaporean English
, etc. So, the article of 'Malaysian Malay' should be about the language/dialect, meanwhile the 'Malay Malaysians' (which mistakenly named in article as 'Malaysian Malays' ) is about the people.
Actually if you notice, there are a lot of flaws when it comes to articles related to Malaysia, and I hope you would like to help to fix it, for example:

Interesting. Thank you for coming to my talk page, editor
ed. put'r there
 10:05, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
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